Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: dazedandconfused on July 20, 2004, 02:30:52 pm
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I have a local dealer who will not give me his 'best' price on the phone or email. I can undestand that. However, I have to go sit in the sales office behind a huge oak table while getting the sales pitch of a life time in order to get his best price! I rather not go through that.
Even in person, they will not give me a best price until we 'sit down'. I am sure his best price will not be revealed until he knows for sure I am buying that day!
What a pain the ...! Who does he think he is? There are other manufacturers and even other identical brand dealers out there I can go to.
Anyway, any advice as to what to say to get his best price while not being strapped to a chair?
Thanks
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Two can play the game. Keep visiting and stick to your guns, the more times you visit the more he knows your a serious buyer. Or, What the heck, sit down with him, you can still get up at any time.
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Why would he waste his time giving you a number if you're about to bolt?
The best deals always happen when you have the checkbook in your hand.
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Some friends of mine went through the same problem when they were trying to purchase a pool. Some dealers must really want to know you are serious before they go showing everyone their prices. Maybe in the past they've had too many people just looking for a comparable price and moving on to the next dealer.
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Dazedandconfused:
What dealer would give you his best price over the phone? So you can complain that his prices are higher than the other Sundance dealer’s you called.
How does the dealer know you are a serious consumer by you calling over the phone? You could be his competition 100 miles away.
Go to the dealership and ask for some prices. That’s the best thing to do.
Chris H
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What is the best line to say to 'get up' after enduring his long pitch? How do you end his tirade?
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Thanks for your time. Let me go think it over.
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''thanks for your time'' followed by any variety of statement that you want to convey.
Not interested.
I found a better deal elsewhere.
Gotta think about it.
need to tell the wife what I'm about to do.
Gotta see my banker known as my local mafia boss.
Pic a feature dazed, but at least let them write you an offer on paper.
Gotta tell you that when I went to get my quote, they knew me already because I had been in several times and it took 15 minutes. including the hagling.
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dazed, "best price" is generally the best kept secret in the spa purchase relationship. You need to determine your best price, within reason, and attempt to get it. I'm sure you've done you're homework on these forums and should know what others are paying for the tub you want (if not then you haven't completed your homework).
If you are serious about purchasing that tub 'sit down' and get things moving. A line I have used during the 'sit down' that has gotten results when I felt I was being "highballed" was "your price is out of line with what the rest of the country's educated buyers are paying". Let them know that you are an educated buyer.
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A week ago Daze said he bought a spa and now he's still shopping.hummmm think Daze is a looker and not a buyer.johnnyT :D
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I sell Sundance and I'd of told you to go buy elsewhere by now.
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Just a suggestion, but I say we should all take it down a notch (no need for fistacuffs!) That said. . .
Dazed, for what it's worth here's how I shop - Make a clear distinction between "shopping" and "negotiating." When I'm "just shopping" I'm deciding what brand, features, etc. I prefer. I don't care about "best price" at that stage. The only price I'm interested in is "sticker price" just to determine which make/model is in my range. I actually don't WANT to hear anyone's best price at that stage - a low ball at that stage just confuses you. "Shopping" is when you FORGET PRICE and focus on what brand/model fits you like a glove.
After, ONLY after deciding the make/model you want in your back yard are you ready to negotiate. If you are at the negotiate stage and find yourself saying, "Yeah, I want this one. . .but if the other guy will drop price 300 bucks I might switch to that one" . . .guess what? You are NOT ready to negotiate, you are "just shopping"
A good salesman knows a shopper from a buyer at a glance. If you "pretend" to be a buyer you will quickly alienate yourself at all the available dealers and they won't take you seriously when you are ready. (Don't do that to yourself, you're too good a guy to have that happen!)
So, ask your self this: Do I know exactly what brand/model/features I am going to buy REGARDLESS of how much they shave off the sticker? Unless you say, "absolutely, without a doubt" you are NOT ready to negotiate. . .and that's ok. "Shop" 'til you drop but don't pretend to be ready to buy. . . Look, a tub you will use daily for years - $300 is irrelevant over the life of that experience. Or look at it this way - sitting naked in your hottub you won't feel how thick or thin the wallet is in your levi's. Just my method, for what it's worth - Good shopping!
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Even if he he gets a spa fror free he will find faults.johnnyT
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Long time reader and first time poster. I would like to thank you all for your wisdom and suggestions. That said, I believe dazed is purely wasting bandwidth with pointless, thoughtless questions. I'm not sure of his motive though?
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Excuse me Bubbles!
I am just an intelligent shopper looking out for my money! I know there are huge markups in spas, its a low volume luxury item.
Why shop around a little and get a better deal?
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How do you know the markup on spas?
Based on the questions you have been asking on this board, there is some pretty basic things that you don't know, therefore I find it almost laughable that you claim know what the markup on a spa is, let alone that you have the business knowledge to determine that the markup is excessive.
So please provide me:
1. The price my dealer paid for the 2003 Optima I purchased from them. (Included stereo, led light, cover, lifter, steps, chemicals, etc...)
2. What percentage over this you consider huge, and what exactly you used to determine the hugeness.
3. The date you expect to actually purchase a spa, instead of just posing.
Brewman
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Ha ha ha ha ha ho ho ho ho he he he he he, OH YEAH! HEY JEEVES, run round back and get my Bently, we just sold a J-365 for 6495 and WERE ROLLIN IN IT NOW!
Excuse me Bubbles!
I am just an intelligent shopper looking out for my money! I know there are huge markups in spas, its a low volume luxury item.
Why shop around a little and get a better deal?
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Oh Wisoki!!!
you slay me!!!
;D
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I am just an intelligent shopper looking out for my money! I know there are huge markups in spas, its a low volume luxury item.
You certainly are a shopper, I'll agree with that part. Since you've discoverd the hidden secret that the markups on spas are so huge I suggest you become a dealer and make million$ like all the others dealers out there.
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Dazed;
Since you know so much about the margins, what are they? What % profit are we dealers making? Do you think with hagglers like you, and over saturation of the hot tub market that we are all raking it in? ;D ;D
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HEY JEEVES, run round back and get my Bently, we just sold a J-365 for 6495 and WERE ROLLIN IN IT NOW!
Will that be the white Bently or the black Bently sir? I'm sorry but the stretch Bently is currently being used by your wife while on a shopping spree in Beverly Hills.
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I wish you were my local dealer. He wants $6495 for a J-345, and won't budge. All my local dealers seem quite a bit more expensive than what people have been posting on here. Help please, what am I to do?
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Buy a spa for the best price you can, or move to the land of cheaper spas.
Brewman
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I know there are huge markups in spas, its a low volume luxury item.
That quote alone tell me just how little you have learnt in your time shopping. More and more I understand why you chose the name you did on this forum. You are truly dazed and confused.
Take the time to answer some of the questions from others.
What exactly IS the average mark up?
How are you gathering this information to determine a good price and who is giving it to you?
What commitments have you given to determine a final price?
Was your Visa on the table?
Is it important to you that any company you buy from stay in business?
What is a decent profit margin on any retail product?
Do you own a business and are you fimilar with the costs accosiated in doing so?
What is it you do for a living? Is your salary based on the company's profits?
I look forward to your answers. You come here asking for assistance. Now it's your turn to answer some questions. I'm sure you won't mind since everyone else has gone out of their way to answer yours over the past month.
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Just picked myself off of the floor from the laughter. Ya'll are better than the 'Blue Collar Comedy Tour'. :D
Dazed. I gotta add to this string. Sorry but it's gotta be done. Ya asked some fundemental questions at the start of this post and I think you need to hear the simple truth.
I have a local dealer who will not give me his 'best' price on the phone or email. I can undestand that. However, I have to go sit in the sales office behind a huge oak table while getting the sales pitch of a life time in order to get his best price! I rather not go through that.
You don't have to go through that. Stay home - tubless.
Even in person, they will not give me a best price until we 'sit down'. I am sure his best price will not be revealed until he knows for sure I am buying that day!
That tells us all that you are not serious about buying your spa. What do you think this is - spit in your hand and shake on it - yuck.
What a pain the ...! Who does he think he is? There are other manufacturers and even other identical brand dealers out there I can go to.
He thinks he's the owner. And he's telling you - do like you say - go elsewhere and try your purchasing approach there.
Anyway, any advice as to what to say to get his best price while not being strapped to a chair?
Common advice on this board is unanimous - sit down - take a valium if you have to - and let the dealer write you up an offer.
Thanks
You are most welcome
:) ;) :D ;D
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The black one with the tinted windows and driver partition so he can't see me laughing all the way to the bank. Beverly hills shopping spree, thats nothing, last week it was 5th ave. N.Y. city.
Will that be the white Bently or the black Bently sir? I'm sorry but the stretch Bently is currently being used by your wife while on a shopping spree in Beverly Hills.
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Where are you. Many dealers have to deal with a lot of different overhead issues. I have kept mine very low, and I'm liquidating my JPS inventory. My 345 with stero and remote will go to the first person to pony up $5600
I wish you were my local dealer. He wants $6495 for a J-345, and won't budge. All my local dealers seem quite a bit more expensive than what people have been posting on here. Help please, what am I to do?
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I'm in North Alabama, doing my shopping in Huntsville. The cost of living here is pretty low. The Sundance dealer is pretty fancy, with what I would consider high overhead, and prominent location. The D1, and Caldera dealer are on the outskirts of Huntsville, actually out of the city limits I believe, there fore I wouldn't think their overhead is too high. The Jacuzzi dealer hasn't officially opened yet, he's expanding his pool business. Where are you located?
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Itank you are paying over $1000 more then you have to on that spa,price should be around $5495 and no more with cover steps chems and delivery without tax.....JohnnyT :o
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I know that's why I'm not buying it. All of my dealers here seem too high, for what everybody seems to be paying.
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I don't know what to do really. I want support from a local dealer, but I don't want screwed. if I buy from a different dealer, do they have to fix the warranty issues, like car dealerships?
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I am sure you will be very happy with Jacuzzi and I hope you will not pay more then you have too.But there are many great spas on this site and i am sure there are many people that will help you from being burned.johnnyT :D
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I'm actually looking at Caldera also. The Sundance dealer was way too high, and I felt uncomfortable with the D1 dealer, because he subcontracts all spa servicing.
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The best thing to do is to not buy a spa at all. Then you don't have to fret about parting with your money.
Brewman
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I mean Brewman why get on the guys case,He's new so have a little heart........JohnnyT
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I said what I said because comments like "I dont' want to get screwed by my local dealer" bother me.
Just because one person charges more than someone else in another part of the country doesn't mean the higher priced dealer is "screwing" anyone.
And since the moderators of this board are free to delete any post they feel is innapropriate, I will post as I see fit.
Brewman
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When a dealer in Indiana is over $1000 cheaper on a $6000 tub than in Alabama, I think there is a screwing somewhere. Pools are a bigger business here than spas are, and most of the spa dealers concentrate on pools. They use spas to supplement their income during the off-season.
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You are free to avoid doing business with any place you feel is cheating you. I am sure there are plenty of other honest spa dealers in your area.
Brewman
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Hey everyone -
Can we stop the bashing and help each other with our questions? Isnt the purpose of this forum?
Yes, I have not bought yet and yes I am going to buy. I work hard for my money and cannot afford to throw it around! I am am engineer/business man and I must have all the facts first! I guess it is a flaw of mine - oh well.
I have spoken with many 'same' dealers selling the same spa. It is amazing that I get prices anywhere between 8000 to 9500 for the same spa!!! This is criminal! A 1500 difference! The diff in costs of business does not dictate this diff at all!
Plus, a spa is a shell with a pump, pipes, filters, etc. A decent HS or SD runs $8000. Wow! Thats some expensive pumps, pipes, etc. There HAS to be a big markup! A dealer who I was talking to and knew I wasnt buying from told me on avg there is about 50% markup. I tend to believe it is a little higher. Dont you think the manufs have recouped the R&D expenses by now even for models that have been around a few years?? Most of the spa cost is R/D - I am sure.
I really wish there was some price regulations (even though I am against the govt's intervention in business) with spas. I feel like without any knowledge of cost (like knowing invoices on cars) - consumers are open to being taken advantage on this high ticket item. I do not care about buying items that I have no idea of manuf costs if their price is lets say less then $500. But when you get to purchases that are many many thousand, there are too many chances to being taken advantage of. Lets face it, dealers are not in business to watch buyers best interest! They want to pad the bottom line. CAn you imagine a dealer saying 'I understand you have little money D/C, how about I sell you this spa at my cost.' Wishful thinking?
Enough of the soap boxes! Sorry! You can see I woke up on the wrong side of the bed!
I am just looking for help. That's all.
D/C
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Hey dazed. Free market economy means whatever that the product is priced at whatever the market will bear. Each dealer will price their products differently for very many different reason. Ya don't like the price, don't buy. IT'S THAT SIMPLE ;)
I (and I believe others on this forum) have no issue with your desire to get the best tub for as little as possible. And yes this forum is one of the better ones that I have seen (and participated in) among all others. That being said. The soap box you keep refering to which is a result of the 'criminal' behaviour of the dealers that you are in contact with is what I take issue with. R&D - sales - production - and whatever else a manufacturer has as costs which is then sold by a dealer at whatever % mark-up is what the market will bear. Your complaint is that you believe the dealers are taking more of YOUR money that you are willing to part with. They are unwilling to part with THEIR product for the amount of money you are offering. Clearly somethings gotta give. and from where I'm sitting (in my Hot tub sippin on a pina colada) it ain't them.
Nuff said by me on this one.
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I just had to jump in here even though it has been stated many times before....First forget the government regulating spa prices IT IS WAY TO SMALL AN INDUSTRY....also the 50% mark ups really are not out of line with so many other things we all buy......BUT as so many who are in the BUSINESS will tell you it does not happen very much IF at all, from the reputable dealers...and again since when did knowing the invoice for something suddenly become the chic way to determine its value.....that is really the way for lazy person who does not have a clue about the value of something to make up their own mind about what another man should earn....I hope you find the spa you are looking for....
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Many factors could be involved here.
The lower priced dealer may very well be holding out on you.
1) They may be dumping the particular line of spas you are looking at. So they are just trying to get rid of what they have.
2) Possibly they are just running a huge discount to boost sales on spas. trying to boost the bottom line for the winters slow time. This would especially apply more torward a Pool and Spa dealer.
3) Special deal possibly through the manufacturer.
4) You could be buying a factory BLEM and never know it. I have seen Sundance BLEMS. A crooked dealer could sell alot of them as perfect units. You'd never know.
5) Company is so desperate due to the other better dealers as far as service and reputation. They'll do anything to sell a Hottub.
6)Then there is the remote possibility that one particular dealer is just a really nice guy trying to give the working stiff a break. Seeing that he or she has two brand new Bentlys under full warranty, parked in the garage at the estate. Landscaped with 100 dollar bills instead of bark mulch.
Pick the dealer you feel comfortable with and sit down and negotiate. If you feel you paid to much and the dealer feels you paid to little then thats the right price for that TUB from that particular dealer.
You are not the only consumer out there. The owners, sales reps, and managers of these companies are consumers as well.
JUST DO IT!! start relaxing and enjoying.
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D/C
You say you want help, but you don't seem to want to let people help you. We've answered your many questions. Now you are stuck on the idea that Sunsprings spas shouldn't cost $8K or more because they're just a bunch of pumps, etc.
Well guess what. Nobody here can do anything about that for you. You have done your research, now pick out a spa, and make the best deal you are able to.
If that best deal is more than you can afford, or more than you think it should be, then maybe settle on a cheaper model. Sundance has Sweetwater, Hot Springs has Tiger River, there are a lot of less expensive spas out there. Pick one of those, then.
What more can any of us do for you?
And, as Forrest Gump so eloquently stated "That's all I have to say about that" (YAY!!!)
Brewman
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Dazed,
Contrary to what I typically advise, I think you should consider saving yourself some money and go buy from Costco wher the manager surely will give you his "best" price. That way you don't have to worry that you're getting gouged (as you claim dealers do), you don't have to worry about service (because there probably won't be any) and you can get a big container of licorice while you're there.
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I have spoken with many 'same' dealers selling the same spa. It is amazing that I get prices anywhere between 8000 to 9500 for the same spa!!! This is criminal! A 1500 difference! The diff in costs of business does not dictate this diff at all!
I thought that I might point out the fact that the difference in price is (only) 15 - 16 % Yes, I agree $1500 is a lot of money, however, if you look at it from a percentage point of view, it doesn't seem nearly as extreme.
There are also countless questions that need to be addressed before deciding outright that some of those dealers are "Criminal."
Do you, in fact, know that these are the dealers "best" prices? Some dealers (myself included) offer hassle-free pricing. Others choose to use higher sticker prices to "show" huge savings.
Are all of the dealers that you have spoken with offering the exact same deal in regards to options/extras with the tubs?
Do these prices include delivery and set-up?
How much "set-up" is actually included in the delivery? Curbside delivery - Put in place and go - Wire the tub in -Onsite water training - Initial chemicals included etc...
Will there be trip charges after the sale for warranty work?
Are the people in the showroom well-trained to offer any advice/assistance regarding water chemistry/tub operations? This is an often over-looked and under-appreciated quality in a dealership.
Etc... Etc... Etc...
I do feel that everyone should try to get the most for their money. However, at the end of the day if the product you are interested in is more than you feel it is worth and/or are willing to pay for it, then you should simply choose to forgo buying it.
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I'm in north central Indiana. Clic on the house icon next to my name, it'll take you to my web site that has location info.
I'm in North Alabama, doing my shopping in Huntsville. The cost of living here is pretty low. The Sundance dealer is pretty fancy, with what I would consider high overhead, and prominent location. The D1, and Caldera dealer are on the outskirts of Huntsville, actually out of the city limits I believe, there fore I wouldn't think their overhead is too high. The Jacuzzi dealer hasn't officially opened yet, he's expanding his pool business. Where are you located?
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Dazed, as you said spas are a luxury item - one targeted for disposible income. If one is so tight on money one shouldn't be buying such a luxury item.
There is no price regulation in the spa industry and won't be for a long time if ever. Dealers can set any price they want - it's a free market, get over it (I had to as many others did too I'm sure).
It's very simple... educate yourself as to what others are paying, set your best price and buy the tub you want that works for you from the dealer that you want to support. Done
I agree that there has been some undue harshness, but you got some great answers to your questions... all ya gotta do is listen.
Now get out there any buy the spa that's right for you.