Hot Tub Forum
Brand Specific Forums => Hot Spring Spas => Topic started by: CCC on December 10, 2015, 01:28:29 am
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So I have put a deposit on a Hot Springs Grandee. I really like the looks of the tub and the dealer seems legit (Oregon Hot Tub). I live over an hour away so service was a concern. I am paying 12,100 + tax for the tub and all of the usual accoutrements, including delivery 60 miles away. Is this a decent deal? I have not had a chance to wet test it as they don't have one ready to go for that. I've never owned a hot tub. I live in a small population area but have been reassured that the Hot Springs dealer does regular service to this area. So here is my dilemma:
I have two local dealers, one across the river and one half an hour east of me. The closest one sells L.A. Spas, which I have a bad feeling about even though the dealer is very nice. The other is a Bullfrog dealer that is half an hour away. The product looks good, but the one they have filled on the floor is an A8 with a double lounger, and it is stinky and the water level is low. This turned me off right away. I don't even want to wet test it because it stinks and has been on their floor for months. I'm sure it is a fine product, and I'd really like to try it. (They also sell Marquis, but only have one small one on their showroom and if I'm going to go that route I'll go for the Grandee). For me, the only realistic choices to get service are the L.A. Spa, Bullfrog, and Hot Springs. I'm not even going to trouble myself looking at other brands because I want something that can be serviced hassle free under warranty. I like the concept of the Bullfrog, but am a little put off by the experience at the dealer. The Hot Springs people seem like pros. I also asked the Bullfrog service guy what he thought about Hot Springs and he said "I'd never even work on one, they're a pain in the ass." They made it sound like the Bullfrog was some trouble-free panacea. I wasn't born yesterday and I know that stuff breaks.
Should I suck it up and wet test the Bullfrog? Will I be happy with the Grandee even though I couldn't wet test it? Oh, yeah, I am 6'4" so bigger is better. It will be just my wife and I 99% of the time but I want to be comfortable. Both it and the A8 are 38" deep. That is a big deal to me.
Pretty stoked about the Grandee but feeling guilty about not giving the Bullfrog a fair chance. I've read a lot on this site and I am really looking forward to the comments.
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After recalling my experience shopping tubs (Oregon Hotsprings, Marquis, Jacuzzi) last year, that seems like a good price.
I, also, had a good experience with Oregon HotSprings, but ran into the same issues; out of the three tubs I wanted to wet test they only had one filled and would not fill any of the other tubs. The tub I did test just wasn't right for me, I believe I was quoted 13,000ish and when I asked is this negotiable, the dealer said "NO." Went to the Marquis dealer (also a good experience) they had the two tubs filled I wanted to wet test, the tub I wet tested was a good fit, I didn't get caught up in the bells and whistles or this filtration system is better than that one... I knew the tub(s) I was testing were repeatable brands and offered good warranties.
So after my my experience...YES wet test, your eyes may tell you this is the one, but your body may tell you something different...12 grand is a big chunk of change.
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I'd call Bullfrog in Utah and explain what is going on with your dealer. See if there is another dealer that you can arrange to wet test the tub you want in the Bullfrog line.
I suggest testing the A8 with a Gyrossage, Pulsator, NeckBlaster, RainShower, Oscillator and Wellness JetPaks.
If that's the only dealer you can go to, I'd ask them to put some Ahh-some cleaner in the tub, drain it, clean the tub and filters, re-fill the tub and balance the water chemistry prior to testing.
You will notice a big difference with the Bullfrog jets.
Good luck!
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I would have given Marquis a better look, given they're made in Oregon and have an excellent reputation. There are 3 Marquis factory stores in Salem, Beaverton, Clackamas and about 10 other dealers throughout Oregon. Sounds like you may have stopped in to a small Marquis dealer that's not really in the business. I happen to be the manager of the Marquis store in Beaverton, If you haven't completely made up your mind, give me a call and I can save you several thousand on a similar sized spa that is built better with more features, and better therapy in my opinion (not to say HotSpring is a bad tub - they make a good spa).
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The Bullfrog guy thinks his is best, the Marquis guy thinks his is best, the Hot Spring guy... and guess what, they probably do think that. The reality is you need a good spa (all of those certainly have good reputations), you really want to wet test (tell them its the deal breaker if necessary), you want a good deal and you want to get in writing that they'll service you from afar and have them note any travel fees involved. Take your time and get the spa that is best for you and from the best dealer because it really does matter who you're buying from.
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Interesting. The Bullfrog dealer in The Dalles told me that the Marquis (that they sell!) was a notch below Hot Springs. They said everyone in the store owns a Bullfrog. With that attitude I can't imagine them being in the Marquis business for long. If I were to buy one in Portland, who would service it? I live in the Gorge (White Salmon). Hot Springs does do service out here. He said after the first year it's a $50 service charge even for warranty. I have been in retail sales in my past life and the fact that the Bullfrog dealer didn't maintain their filled display model made me question their competency. The Hot Springs guy was really playing up the no bypass feature. He also said the Marquis manufacturing facility was sub-par compared to Hot Springs. But that's why I'm here, to cut through the b.s. Thanks for the thoughtful replies thus far!
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I'd wet test whatever units you think you like regardless of the dealer's attitude. Would you buy a $12K car without driving it?
Bullfrog uses common parts from Balboa. Anyone can service it.
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Interesting. The Bullfrog dealer in The Dalles told me that the Marquis (that they sell!) was a notch below Hot Springs. They said everyone in the store owns a Bullfrog. With that attitude I can't imagine them being in the Marquis business for long. If I were to buy one in Portland, who would service it? I live in the Gorge (White Salmon). Hot Springs does do service out here. He said after the first year it's a $50 service charge even for warranty. I have been in retail sales in my past life and the fact that the Bullfrog dealer didn't maintain their filled display model made me question their competency. The Hot Springs guy was really playing up the no bypass feature. He also said the Marquis manufacturing facility was sub-par compared to Hot Springs. But that's why I'm here, to cut through the b.s. Thanks for the thoughtful replies thus far!
That's just a asinine statement. I would put Marquis up against any other manufacturer any day. The Marquis facility in Beaverton is second to none and the engineers and guys who design these tubs incredible at what they do. I've dealt with other brands of tubs in my life and the customer service from the factory has been by far the best. the Marquis signature tubs are unbeatable as far as quality and jet feel. Wet test all 3 if you can and I bet 1 will be eliminated right away and the one won't be the Marquis
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Interesting. The Bullfrog dealer in The Dalles told me that the Marquis (that they sell!) was a notch below Hot Springs. They said everyone in the store owns a Bullfrog. With that attitude I can't imagine them being in the Marquis business for long. If I were to buy one in Portland, who would service it? I live in the Gorge (White Salmon). Hot Springs does do service out here. He said after the first year it's a $50 service charge even for warranty. I have been in retail sales in my past life and the fact that the Bullfrog dealer didn't maintain their filled display model made me question their competency. The Hot Springs guy was really playing up the no bypass feature. He also said the Marquis manufacturing facility was sub-par compared to Hot Springs. But that's why I'm here, to cut through the b.s. Thanks for the thoughtful replies thus far!
That's just a asinine statement. I would put Marquis up against any other manufacturer any day. The Marquis facility in Beaverton is second to none and the engineers and guys who design these tubs incredible at what they do. I've dealt with other brands of tubs in my life and the customer service from the factory has been by far the best. the Marquis signature tubs are unbeatable as far as quality and jet feel. Wet test all 3 if you can and I bet 1 will be eliminated right away and the one won't be the Marquis
I agree, I live in Northern Minnesota. Crappy brands don't survive up here long and trust me a lot have come and gone. Marquis is still here selling strong.
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Hey Tman, what is your opinion of the Hot Springs vs. the Bullfrog?
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I think I am going to cool my jets and rethink this. I think that the Grandee looks like a quality unit, but the only one that I can wet test is a Vanguard. Will that give me enough of an idea to know? My wife is just too bashful to go into a store and wet test. But it's true, $12,000 is a lot of money and I want this to last. I haven't heard anything bad about Hot Springs, though. It seems to be universally acknowledged that they are a great product, as is the Marquis. Still just very curious as to why the local Marquis dealer is so lukewarm on their own product. I think I will call the factory store in Portland and get their side of the story.
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I think I am going to cool my jets and rethink this. I think that the Grandee looks like a quality unit, but the only one that I can wet test is a Vanguard. Will that give me enough of an idea to know? My wife is just too bashful to go into a store and wet test. But it's true, $12,000 is a lot of money and I want this to last. I haven't heard anything bad about Hot Springs, though. It seems to be universally acknowledged that they are a great product, as is the Marquis. Still just very curious as to why the local Marquis dealer is so lukewarm on their own product. I think I will call the factory store in Portland and get their side of the story.
Hot spring is definitely a good tub. I would want to test the tub I'm getting though. Give Markee a call and check out the euphoria or the epic. That will give you another like tub to check out.
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I think I am going to cool my jets and rethink this. I think that the Grandee looks like a quality unit, but the only one that I can wet test is a Vanguard. Will that give me enough of an idea to know? My wife is just too bashful to go into a store and wet test. But it's true, $12,000 is a lot of money and I want this to last. I haven't heard anything bad about Hot Springs, though. It seems to be universally acknowledged that they are a great product, as is the Marquis. Still just very curious as to why the local Marquis dealer is so lukewarm on their own product. I think I will call the factory store in Portland and get their side of the story.
Your wife should wet-test it with you. Tell her not to worry about it, they've seen it all there and all they care about is making the sale, not rating or judging her! :) Bring a bathrobe and a change of clothes and a towel. Go at a fairly quiet time of day or day of the week and chances are there won't be another customer in sight (especially at this time of year - at least here anyways.)
I agree about the Bullfrog dealer with the stinky display model. That is just really yucky and terrible... why even bother having one filled if you're not going to maintain it??
I can't speak to the Marquis or the Hotsprings. We bought a Jacuzzi because the local Hotsprings dealer wouldn't allow any wet tests at all, so we ruled them out, and our local Marquis "dealer" didn't have any in stock! I would have liked to try both, but the Jacuzzi blew us away on the wet test so we bought it.
Best of luck with your search! If your wife has any questions or concerns, feel free to PM me! :)
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Hey Tman, what is your opinion of the Hot Springs vs. the Bullfrog?
Hot Springs (Watkins Manufacturing) has a long standing reputation for reliability, energy efficiency and longevity. They back there products with one of the best warranties in the business and have a very nice product. I have sat in several models wet and have enjoyed the feel.
BullFrog is trying to get there. Never soaked in one so can't say if I would enjoy the feel.
I have a very specific "feel" that I enjoy. And that can't come at a noisy price.
Try and wet test whatever brand/model you choose. The feel of the jets on your body is most important. Everybody has a different "feel" that feels good to them. If I was going to spend that much on a tub there is no way I wouldn't wet test it and compare a few different brands/models.
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Hi CCC, regarding your "cool your jets and rethink" comment, I totally agree. Make sure you figure out where it's going. And costs involved for prep, pad, electrical, etc. I researched the hell out of tubs, wet tested 4 brands, and bought the one we loved (spending over $10k.) Then stupid me got bids for everything else, prep, pad, electrical, of course the spa is as far away from my panel as possible, and I need a crane for delivery, and $6,000 later we are ready for the spa to be installed. If I had known costs to just be ready for the spa would be 60% of the spa's cost.....I don't know ...but things would have been different. (Not to mention it would have spared me the wrath of my beautiful wife) we all learn from our experiences, good and bad, my lesson was learned.
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I would NEVER buy a Grandee without wet testing it....I'm 5'11 190lbs and can sit like a rock in a Vanguard but when I get in a Grandee it's a nightmare, floating all over the place with no spot to "plant" my feet, very uncomfortable for me....doesn't make it a bad spa, this can obviously apply to any spa brand its just I have direct first hand experience with the Vanguard and Grandee...so ya basically like everyone has mentioned make sure before you drop 10-14k that you wet test, wet test, wet test
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I would NEVER buy a Grandee without wet testing it....I'm 5'11 190lbs and can sit like a rock in a Vanguard but when I get in a Grandee it's a nightmare, floating all over the place with no spot to "plant" my feet, very uncomfortable for me....doesn't make it a bad spa, this can obviously apply to any spa brand its just I have direct first hand experience with the Vanguard and Grandee...so ya basically like everyone has mentioned make sure before you drop 10-14k that you wet test, wet test, wet test
This was what sold us on the Jacuzzi J-470. The center foot dome with the foot jets acts like a "seatbelt", both because there is a comfortable place to plant your feet and also because the foot jets create a jet flow pushing backwards so you stay in your seat. It isn't really noticeable, but I was playing around in our tub the other night (while my husband made dinner - heaven!) :) and I noticed when I turned off the foot jets it was easier to float out of my seat.
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A couple of things to consider when testing a spa - the same spa will sit very differently with and without a bathing suit. With a suit I slide and float a bit, w/o I sit like a rock.
Also, at first we liked lower intensity jets - after a few weeks we prefer full intensity jets, I think we got used to the jets after a short while.
I hope this is not TMI but something you may want to consider....
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A couple of things to consider when testing a spa - the same spa will sit very differently with and without a bathing suit. With a suit I slide and float a bit, w/o I sit like a rock.
Also, at first we liked lower intensity jets - after a few weeks we prefer full intensity jets, I think we got used to the jets after a short while.
I hope this is not TMI but something you may want to consider....
I'll add to that if you don't have a private enough yard for that (which unfortunately we don't!) the type of suit can make a difference too. I wear a "tankini" in public for self-consciousness but a bikini in our own tub because the extra fabric creates more buoyancy.
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The Moto Massage didn't blow me away but it does a lot of folks.
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So I went back to the local Bullfrog/Marquis dealer and talked to the owner. I sympathize with her plight as they are a small store that can't really floor a lot of inventory. They got some incentives in the Bullfrogs, it seems, and thus they only have one small Marquis on the floor. I still want to look at them, but I don't want to waste a salesman's time in Portland just to come back and buy it from somebody else. Perhaps I should be a little more ruthless but I've been in sales before and know what it's like. I don't think I care for the Bullfrog even though I haven't wet tested it. It still smells kind of musty. Perhaps that's just from the walls soaking up moisture, but the Hot Springs store didn't stink.
A question about leg/foot jets. Looking at the Grandee I reserved, it doesn't seem to have much going on for the legs. I have a lot of calf problems and achilles tendonitis. How much do people appreciate dedicated leg/foot jets?
I know, I should wet test. The vibe I'm getting is that the vast majority of people buy without doing that and the attitude is kind of "well, okay, if you really want to come in and try one, you weirdo, we'll figure something out". I know, it's my money and I shouldn't care. But there isn't a Grandee in the Portland area that is filled, only a Vanguard, and they aren't going to fill one. As BullfrogSpaGuy said, they feel different. The moto massage looks cool, but I've read a lot of mixed reviews about it.
Also, thank you Markee for the phone conversation and info about Marquis.
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Just an FYI it's not the spa's fault that it stinks.. But that would also tell me something about the dealer not taking care of things. It's like showrooms I have been in where there is dead bugs in a spa and has not been wiped down in awhile.
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No problem, let me know if you want to make the trek over here and we can have an Epic, Euphoria, or any other model filled up for you to try out.
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I wet tested a couple of hot tubs last weekend, but neither that were on my list. I tried a Hot Springs Vanguard and a Marquis Wish. I really liked them both. The Hot Springs ambiance was first class. They just feel like quality. I really like that. I liked the Moto-Massage. It was at a different store than where I had put the deposit down, but the people there were friendly and knowledgable. It seems to me that the Grandee would be the Vanguard only bigger and better.
The Marquis was also very nice. It had a jet in the footwell that was f**ing amazing! Nothing to compare to on the Hot Springs. They didn't have an Epic that I could wet test, which is the one I would probably be interested in. It didn't quite have the solid feel of the Hot Springs as far as fit and finish and just overall ambiance IMO. Not knocking it, but I think the Hot Springs Highlife just looks like a higher end product. One thing that the Marquis guy said is "look at the equipment bay, see how it's laid out? Why don't they open theirs?" Well, I admit, the Marquis has a nice clean area where their panel is open, but that says nothing about what everything else looks like. I am a high voltage substation electrician. I work on electrical equipment for a living. I know crappy layout and cheap design. I googled videos of Hot Springs repairs and they aren't a ghetto tub. Everything looks easy to get to to me. I wasn't going to be a sheep and go ask the Hot Springs guy to open the panel for me. I have a smart phone and I'm sure they've heard that challenge a million times.
It's obviously a Celebrity Death Match type of rivalry between those two brands here. I've been in sales for many years in my past life. So one has to take a giant tablet of salt and do their own thinking in the end.
I'm trying to convince my wife to shed her modesty and wet test with me. I don't think she'll go for it but we shall see. I don't think I can go wrong either way but I think if I had to make up my mind right now I would get the Grandee. I like the controls, and the space is amazing. I am 6'4 with a long torso, and I don't think that the Marquis is going to give me as deep of a soak as the Grandee after measuring them both. I also like the open lay out which makes transitioning from seat to seat more seamless. I wish I had more experience hot-tubbing so I could know what features were more important to me. The Hot Springs seemed quieter, but that could have to do with the acoustics of the showrooms. That fact that the dealers are over an hour away and I am in my busy time at work makes this a logistical challenge to shop.
I am stoked to get this, whatever I decide in the end. Isn't it wonderful to have such dillemas?
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Both are great brands...As far as wet testing see if they'll let you test after the store closes (not hours after they close, but when they close😀) We went on a Saturday, When they opened for business it was nice and quiet...at least the day we went. If you can, try the Epic.
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We wet-tested in the last hour they were open on a Sunday and we were the only ones there besides the 2 salespeople. Our salesperson showed us the controls and then left us to our own devices. It did feel a little weird being in my bathrobe and bathing suit in a showroom, but honestly they couldn't care less so it wasn't so bad. This was a Jacuzzi dealer and they had a nice big change-room/restroom with sage green towels rolled up like a spa. :)
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No Jacuzzi dealer near me, I'm afraid. I have eliminated the Bullfrog because I don't want to wet-test a hot tub that stinks. It says too much to me about the professionalism of the dealer. Service is everything to me. Next nearest one is in Salem (2+ hours away).
With the holidays coming and work demands I won't get a chance to wet-test until the new year. The Grandee I reserved will arrive on the 18th, ready to deliver the following week, and from what I have read I am getting a pretty good deal on it at $12,100 + tax. The Epic is so close in price that at this stage the money isn't really a deciding factor. I thought the Epic would be considerably cheaper but was quoted $11,100 + tax. Both dealers seemed like they would give good service after the sale. Hot Spring said they wouldn't charge me a trip fee for warranty service for the first year, but Marquis would right off the bat. Both trip fees for warranty service are about $60 because I live so far away, and I figure most nit-picky issues would be found in the first year. Another plus for Hot Spring. It shows confidence in their product.
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CCC: The Marquis stores in Clackamas/Beaverton/Salem do not charge a trip fee the first year of warranty, even if you are out of the normal 30 mile radius, so it would be the same as the HotSpring dealer. We can put that in writing for you. It's unlikely that you're going to need the warranty because of how reliable they are, but it's nice to have for peace of mind.
I'm glad you wet tested both brands. The Marquis Wish is a cramped layout if you're a bigger guy. The Epic is much roomier and has 2 of the foot geyser jets that you really liked. They are stacked on top of eachother in the Epic so you can get them on your feet or you can put your back against them and have those hit your upper and lower back (that is one of my favorite features on the Epic). It will vary from seat to seat, but the overall water depth between the Epic and Grandee should be very similar when you consider that the HotSpring has plumbing running underneath the footwell for the drain, whereas the Marquis has no plumbing underneath the footwell. That is the main reason the Grandee is 38" tall and the Epic is 35" tall. If you do end up wanting to come in and test the Epic, let us know soon because all of our Epic floor models are sold and scheduled to be delivered, and there is a hot tub shortage with holiday shut downs at the factory. If you end up coming back, come talk to me and I can get you a better price like we had discussed on the phone.
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Yesterday I fractured my fibula and Tibia, snapped in two at the ankle. Had surgery today to bolt the bones together. I don't think I'll be able to submerge the wound for awhile. While I realize a hot tub is the least of my worries at the moment, I'm lying in a hospital bed bored and in pain so am looking for distractions. Sooooooo........
I have this Granderle reserved at this great price. If I cancel it I'm told that I will not get the same deal. I would be crazy to buy a hot tub that I won't be able to get into for probably, what, 2 months minimum? (haven't had post op follow up appointment yet).
Dang it. I was so looking forward to winter hot rubbing! (and winter walking, for that matter!)
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Oh man sorry to hear about your leg, that is a bad break. Get well soon!
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Sorry to hear about your fracture CCC! I broke my ankle 2 years ago so I definitely feel for you. This is a crappy time of year to do it too. Mine was in February, in Jamaica,... that sucked!!!
What happened?
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I fell down my stairs at home. Pretty glamorous, Huh?
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That's a real bummer, but you need a better story. Something with a bottle of whiskey and a roundhouse kick contest with Chuck Norris would suffice. There's no shame in losing a RHK Contest to Chuck Norris.
Hope you heal up good though...
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Sorry to hear that, hope it heals and you're well soon.