Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: arkybug on October 27, 2015, 06:40:10 pm
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I have a Coyote Santa Fe (built by Arctic Spa's US division), which was delivered to us just under a year ago (October 2014). Within the first few months, we noticed we had lost an inch of water, and that some of our under water perimeter lights had cracked. We had a repair person replace those, but noticed more water loss as the months wore on. Eventually, we had to replace all the perimeter lights, as well as two cup holder lights. The last repair person who serviced the tub noticed the wooden frame inside the tub had cracked right through the boards, and that one of the support structures under the control panel was sagging. Our dealer submitted a warranty claim, and Arctic advised us that due to an issue with the wood used at the factory, we would be getting a new tub.
Great news... until we were told that there would be an additional fee for 'upgraded' parts of over $2000.
I just got off the phone with the dealer, and from the list he gave me, nothing is changing, except the new tub will have fewer perimeter lights. We're getting the same stereo (the new ones have blue tooth, which we won't be getting), the Eco Pack is the same, etc etc. I can only assume that because we got a deal on the first tub, Arctic is trying to recoup some of that money by charging us more for a replacement tub. Even though it is a factory defect that put us in this mess in the first place.
I called the Arctic warranty department - which left me in tears. The whole thing has been a nightmare, and I truly wish I had never purchased from Arctic Spa.
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Lets get the dealers name and your tubs serial number listed here.
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The dealer is Paradise Bay here in Calgary Alberta. They've been good to us so far. The problem as far as I can see is with Arctic themselves.
The serial number of the tub is a14fxi 58731.
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BBB.com
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Use their Facebook page to link to this post. Social media pressure is the best leverage you can get against something like this.
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Is arctic charging you the 2k or the dealer?
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Arctic themselves are charging the $2k. I reviewed the warranty for the tub last night, and it states that 'we reserve the right to provide a replacement spa equal in value to the original purchase price as of the defective spa'. As our tub is less than a year old, I can't see how they are justifying the charge, when the dealer has confirmed we're not getting anything new and improved.
I will be contacting BBB today, and I am looking at consulting with a lawyer, but the Consumer Advocacy here in Canada is pathetic compared to the States. I did write a post on FB and linked it to Arctic's page. My feeling is that they are great at deleting negative comments or just ignoring those of us who have problems.
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Arctic themselves are charging the $2k. I reviewed the warranty for the tub last night, and it states that 'we reserve the right to provide a replacement spa equal in value to the original purchase price as of the defective spa'. As our tub is less than a year old, I can't see how they are justifying the charge, when the dealer has confirmed we're not getting anything new and improved.
I will be contacting BBB today, and I am looking at consulting with a lawyer, but the Consumer Advocacy here in Canada is pathetic compared to the States. I did write a post on FB and linked it to Arctic's page. My feeling is that they are great at deleting negative comments or just ignoring those of us who have problems.
That's horrible "service". So they're saying an Arctic tub depreciates at least $2000 the first year?
Tell them you're going to put the tub on a trailer with signs on it explaining what they did and park the trailer right near the dealer. heehehe
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Hate to break it to you av8r, but any spa from any brand will depreciate at least 20% the first year. Hot tubs are not cars, and there isn't a huge aftermarket demand to keep prices high on used tubs (less than 5% of the population own hot tubs). Also, hot tub warranties do not transfer, which is another reason they have faster depreciation.
With that being said, I think $2000 is excessive to swap out a warranty spa that is a year old. It's common in the industry for the customer to pay shipping, and a re-delivery fee in these type of situations. Some dealers will eat the cost of these items to keep the customer happy.
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Hate to break it to you av8r, but any spa from any brand will depreciate at least 20% the first year. Hot tubs are not cars, and there isn't a huge aftermarket demand to keep prices high on used tubs (less than 5% of the population own hot tubs). Also, hot tub warranties do not transfer, which is another reason they have faster depreciation.
With that being said, I think $2000 is excessive to swap out a warranty spa that is a year old. It's common in the industry for the customer to pay shipping, and a re-delivery fee in these type of situations. Some dealers will eat the cost of these items to keep the customer happy.
I should have been more clear. I think we all realize these are not investments, but would any manufacturer want potential clients knowing this? Most people never think about this....a good thing for the sellers!
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With that being said, I think $2000 is excessive to swap out a warranty spa that is a year old. It's common in the industry for the customer to pay shipping, and a re-delivery fee in these type of situations. Some dealers will eat the cost of these items to keep the customer happy.
One more reason this industry is begging for some kind of regulation. That's total crap.
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That is BS for a 1 year old spa. Now if it was 5-6 years old, then I think it would be fair. I had a customer with a 2002 Saratoga Victoria that had an unrepairable crack in the shell (this was 2007) and Saratoga and my customer agreed to a price of $3000 for a replacement hot tub including shipping costs and our cost to swap the spas. In that case, I think the price was more than fair considering the price of the new Saratoga Empire and the age difference.
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That is BS for a 1 year old spa. Now if it was 5-6 years old, then I think it would be fair. I had a customer with a 2002 Saratoga Victoria that had an unrepairable crack in the shell (this was 2007) and Saratoga and my customer agreed to a price of $3000 for a replacement hot tub including shipping costs and our cost to swap the spas. In that case, I think the price was more than fair considering the price of the new Saratoga Empire and the age difference.
That's the difference between a company who actually value their customers and one who couldn't care less.
Hope you're reading this, Arctic Spas....we are...as are thousands of other, potential customers.
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" provide a replacement spa equal in value to the original purchase price"
original purchase price! No mention of any deprecation.
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As others have said, this is really, really poor customer service by Arctic. I remember reading quite a few negative reviews about Arctic service some time ago, but I thought they had changed. Maybe "Water Boy" who is on this forum and I believe sells Arctic, could give you some advice on the best way to deal with Arctic so you might get your issue resolved.
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Wow, I WAS going to look at Arctic Hot Tubs but maybe not now.
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2k sounds real excessive. Are their any specific reasons like you need a crane to deliver it or anything like that? If it's just for the tub then that is ridiculous. Hopefully they rethink their decision. Good luck and keep us posted
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2k sounds real excessive. Are their any specific reasons like you need a crane to deliver it or anything like that? If it's just for the tub then that is ridiculous. Hopefully they rethink their decision. Good luck and keep us posted
I don't agree, When you drive it off the lot 2k is reasonable, but any dealer (not manufacturer) can decide how much his customer base is worth. A manufacturer sells thousands of tubs, not selling to 50-100 potential customers won't even be noticed as long as your marketing department does it's job, sell thousands of tubs. This is local. How much can the manufacturer do? Only help you figure out what local will give. Prices have gone up half that. The dealer should take half, only if business is good, again his choice. That's how we define dealers.
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You would expect to pay a charge (typically negotiated with the dealer like stated above) to get the spa out and shipped to the factory, again sometimes if the pickup is "easy" a dealer will cover the charge just to keep the customer happy. Buuut this is something worked out between the customer and dealer so what exactly is the Manufacturer trying to charge the $2,000 for? simply "upgraded parts" lol I'd wipe my you know what with that bill and put a few stamps on it and send it back to them
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2k sounds real excessive. Are their any specific reasons like you need a crane to deliver it or anything like that? If it's just for the tub then that is ridiculous. Hopefully they rethink their decision. Good luck and keep us posted
I don't agree, When you drive it off the lot 2k is reasonable, but any dealer (not manufacturer) can decide how much his customer base is worth. A manufacturer sells thousands of tubs, not selling to 50-100 potential customers won't even be noticed as long as your marketing department does it's job, sell thousands of tubs. This is local. How much can the manufacturer do? Only help you figure out what local will give. Prices have gone up half that. The dealer should take half, only if business is good, again his choice. That's how we define dealers.
But according to the poster it's the manufacturer charging the 2k not the dealer. If the tub was 5 years old that would be reasonable but not less then a year old. The manufacturer made a product that failed it's not the customers fault. That's why you buy from a strong manufacturer and a reputable dealer. I've had to do only 1 replacement in my years. My customer didn't pay anything. I picked up the freight costs and delivered the tub for free. The manufacturer replaced it like they are suppossed to do. If what he is saying is accurate then that puts arctic in a very poor light. And prices haven't gotten up that much in the last year. Marquis had a price increase and it was very minimal this year
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Sorry to hear about this. I have never heard of a structural damage issue on any of the Coyote Spas before. That is a new one to me. I wish there was something I could do to help. I will get with my contacts at Arctic Spas, and make sure they are aware of this.
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There has to be more information that we don't have. If not, that's total BS. Can you think of any other factors to share with us?
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There has to be more information that we don't have. If not, that's total BS. Can you think of any other factors to share with us?
I have logged a BBB complaint and sent them the warranty info. Also, I've logged a complaint with the Alberta provincial government under their unfair trading practise legislation. Per the response from the Blue Falls Manufacturing regarding the BBB complaint, I have a choice of either having repairmen fix my tub on site (the first two hours of labour are free, and after that, it's several hours of work that I have to pay for), or $2000 for a replacement tub that does NOT contain any upgraded parts, per the dealer. This is the response from BFM per BBB:
1 )Blue Falls will replace the shell, jets, plumbing, cabinet and floor. There is no warranted reason to replace electronic equipment or cover. The old used equipment will be transferred from the original spa and installed in the new spa. Warranty will pay up to 2 hrs for the parts swap. Warranty on new spa with original equipment will be duration of existing.
2) Blue Falls is offering factory installed equipment at a low charge to only recuperate our costs. The cost to customer for new factory installed equipment will be $2056.77. Warranty on new equipment will be the duration of existing warranty or one year parts, which ever is longer. If the customer wants a new cover, it will be at an additional cost.
So they will pick apart my spa at my house, rebuild the structure, and charge me hours of labour, or I can get a new spa for $2000. I can't figure out why they feel the need to charge me, when apparently they have the best structurally sound tubs and the best service, and according to the dealer, replacing a spa happens so rarely. If this is truly the case, why are they so insistent on charging us? Doesn't it make sense to help us get this fixed and keep us as customers for life?
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There has to be more information that we don't have. If not, that's total BS. Can you think of any other factors to share with us?
So they will pick apart my spa at my house, rebuild the structure, and charge me hours of labour, or I can get a new spa for $2000. I can't figure out why they feel the need to charge me, when apparently they have the best structurally sound tubs and the best service, and according to the dealer, replacing a spa happens so rarely. If this is truly the case, why are they so insistent on charging us? Doesn't it make sense to help us get this fixed and keep us as customers for life?
They'll tell you whatever you want to hear per-sales. It's post-sales where the great dealers shine and the bad ones show their colors. No different than used cars in that respect.
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There has to be more information that we don't have. If not, that's total BS. Can you think of any other factors to share with us?
So they will pick apart my spa at my house, rebuild the structure, and charge me hours of labour, or I can get a new spa for $2000. I can't figure out why they feel the need to charge me, when apparently they have the best structurally sound tubs and the best service, and according to the dealer, replacing a spa happens so rarely. If this is truly the case, why are they so insistent on charging us? Doesn't it make sense to help us get this fixed and keep us as customers for life?
They'll tell you whatever you want to hear per-sales. It's post-sales where the great dealers shine and the bad ones show their colors. No different than used cars in that respect.
Very true but his beef shouldn't be with the dealer. This is all on Arctic. I would be beyond pissed with them. I always held them in a higher regard but after this my respect for them as a manufacturer has taken a serious hit
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Is there something in their written warranty stating that they will only cover up to a certain $ amount of warranty repairs? If not, then they're ripping you off, and I would have to put them lower on my list than even ole jimmy boy.
FYI, it's been my experience that with the BBB, the last person to respond WINS. Typically one side will give up responding, usually the consumer, and the company will then win.
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I've read the warranty over so many times, my eyes hurt. I cannot find anything EXPLICIT, but their terminology is vague, and intentionally so, IMO.
Here is the link to their warranty
http://www.arcticspasbarrie.ca/coyote-hot-tub-warranty
Maybe someone on this forum can help me understand it. I have picked it apart and I think I'm in the right... but I know there are experts around that might be able to shed some light on the whole issue.
Btw, I have a consultation with a lawyer on Monday morning. It's a last resort, but I have to explore any option available to me.
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There will be no charge for on site labor to the customer for a period of one year from the date of original delivery or two years from manufacturers ship date, whichever comes first. Any costs associated with service and/or travels outside of the designated service area are the responsibility of the customer. If Coyote spas® determines that repair of the covered defect is not feasible; we reserve the right to instead provide a replacement spa equal in value to the original purchase price as of the defective spa. Spa replacement is done only at the discretion of Coyote spas®. Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa owner. Freight will be paid to the nearest Coyote spas® distribution center.
That's right from their warranty. I would tell them to shove that 2k up there you know what and get a lawyer involved. They sold you a lemon and it's their responsibility to make it right
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Just out of curiosity what do you have the spa sitting on? Concrete pad, wood deck or something else?
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We built up a foundation of treated lumber and gravel, about 1 to 1.5 feet deep (I'm estimating, here). I can't give you too many specifics (it was built by hubby), but the pressure treated wood is reinforced for stability with anchors and lots of steel cable, so that it doesn't shift. He did a lot of designing before coming up with something that would hold the weight of the tub and would be approved by the dealer.
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Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa owner. Freight will be paid to the nearest Coyote spas® distribution center.
I think Hottubguy is right, you've got them here. They state that they'll cover the replacement tub and freight to the dealer, so there is no way that delivering the new tub from the dealer to your home and removing the defective one could possibly cost $2000.
However if the manufacturer is providing the replacement tub and freight to the dealer, your problem may be with the dealer because they would be passing on to you any charges not covered by the manufacturer (i.e. delivery and removal).
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I've confirmed with the dealer that they will absorb the cost of delivery/freight/set up. The only charge I would have to pay (and am willing to do so) is to have my electrician on hand to hook up the new tub.
The manufacturer has confirmed that the costs are due to my getting new factory equipment installed... which is not noted anywhere in the warranty, that I can find.
I just wish they would do the right thing, already...
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I've confirmed with the dealer that they will absorb the cost of delivery/freight/set up. The only charge I would have to pay (and am willing to do so) is to have my electrician on hand to hook up the new tub.
The manufacturer has confirmed that the costs are due to my getting new factory equipment installed... which is not noted anywhere in the warranty, that I can find.
I just wish they would do the right thing, already...
So are they saying the new spa is not "equal in purchase price" to your existing defective spa? I think that given the inconvenience and aggravation you've already had to endure, the least they could do is absorb whatever price increase may have occurred in the past year+ (probably minimal, in reality and at their cost.) Especially since this is a known factory / materials problem. Just the negative press alone is not worth this for their reputation.
Do they have a Facebook page? Sometimes being vocal on social platforms can get things moving in the right direction.
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Yes, I find it hard to believe that my tub has depreciated that much, and I'm getting to the point where it's actually disgusting that BFM is going after me for the $2000, rather than replacing my tub outright.
I have posted on their Facebook page, and as of earlier today, it had not been removed (surprise, surprise). Also, I've sent an email to one of our local news Consumer Advocates. Not sure if any of this will do any good, but if there is a silver lining, I'm hoping that someone somewhere will find this forum or my FB comments and learn from my mistakes, and know that if you do spend thousands on a hot tub, be prepared to spend thousands more if you get a lemon.
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Yes, I find it hard to believe that my tub has depreciated that much, and I'm getting to the point where it's actually disgusting that BFM is going after me for the $2000, rather than replacing my tub outright.
I have posted on their Facebook page, and as of earlier today, it had not been removed (surprise, surprise). Also, I've sent an email to one of our local news Consumer Advocates. Not sure if any of this will do any good, but if there is a silver lining, I'm hoping that someone somewhere will find this forum or my FB comments and learn from my mistakes, and know that if you do spend thousands on a hot tub, be prepared to spend thousands more if you get a lemon.
But their warranty doesn't say anything about depreciation, it just says "equal in purchase price". So they should be comparing the price you paid to the price of the 1-year-newer model, which surely would be less than $2000. Unfortunately it also says that replacement is at their discretion so they can potentially act like they are doing you a giant favour by replacing the tub with a new one at any cost.
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2k sounds real excessive. Are their any specific reasons like you need a crane to deliver it or anything like that? If it's just for the tub then that is ridiculous. Hopefully they rethink their decision. Good luck and keep us posted
I don't agree, When you drive it off the lot 2k is reasonable, but any dealer (not manufacturer) can decide how much his customer base is worth. A manufacturer sells thousands of tubs, not selling to 50-100 potential customers won't even be noticed as long as your marketing department does it's job, sell thousands of tubs. This is local. How much can the manufacturer do? Only help you figure out what local will give. Prices have gone up half that. The dealer should take half, only if business is good, again his choice. That's how we define dealers.
But according to the poster it's the manufacturer charging the 2k not the dealer. If the tub was 5 years old that would be reasonable but not less then a year old. The manufacturer made a product that failed it's not the customers fault. That's why you buy from a strong manufacturer and a reputable dealer. I've had to do only 1 replacement in my years. My customer didn't pay anything. I picked up the freight costs and delivered the tub for free. The manufacturer replaced it like they are suppossed to do. If what he is saying is accurate then that puts arctic in a very poor light. And prices haven't gotten up that much in the last year. Marquis had a price increase and it was very minimal this year
See above, the sign of a quality dealer. Your welcome HTG
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Thanks Tman. I just can't wrap my head around Arctic's thinking on this one. It is just such poor service and the spa owner deserves so much better then this. It's this type of thing that gives the industry in general a bad name
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Yes, I find it hard to believe that my tub has depreciated that much, and I'm getting to the point where it's actually disgusting that BFM is going after me for the $2000, rather than replacing my tub outright.
I have posted on their Facebook page, and as of earlier today, it had not been removed (surprise, surprise). Also, I've sent an email to one of our local news Consumer Advocates. Not sure if any of this will do any good, but if there is a silver lining, I'm hoping that someone somewhere will find this forum or my FB comments and learn from my mistakes, and know that if you do spend thousands on a hot tub, be prepared to spend thousands more if you get a lemon.
I saw your post on FB and they didn't even respond.
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Here's an update on my hot tub drama:
I got a call today from our local TV Consumer advocate who wants to come by our place this week to do a news story on our tub. Also, I was looking at pics of the tub from when we had it delivered and installed. On that same day, I took a picture of the electrician hooking it up, and low and behold, there is a crack in the support structure. They delivered it to us already damaged.
Will keep you posted on how the news story goes.
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Hopefully you will get some results with your TV, consumer advocate. Best of luck on it and yes, please do let us know how this turns out. And I've just got to say it again. Shame, shame on Arctic spa for treating a customer like this.
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Arkybug, again I am sorry you are having to go through all of this. I hate reading and hearing stories like this. I wish there was something I could personally do to help you out.
Have you gone into the store to maybe try and have a sit down conversation with the dealer, maybe the manager or owner of the store? I am assuming you have, might sometimes face to face conversations might be more productive then trying to talk over the phone or email communication. Plus, maybe the person in charge doesn't know all of the details possibly. That would me best advice if you haven't done so already.
It sounds like Blue Falls is willing to replace the tub, but wants your dealer to move the equipment from the old spa to the new spa. It can' t imagine this taking the dealer more than the two hours that Arctic said that they would cover. Usually cooler heads prevail in situations like this. Maybe if it is the labor of moving the equipment is what your dealer is hung up on, maybe you guys can figure something out there so you can just get back to enjoying your hot tub. Good luck, and I hope you get this taken care of soon.
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Hi Water Boy, thank you for your kind words.
The problem isn't with the dealer. I have confirmed that they will not charge me delivery/set up charges, or will charge to take my old tub away. The charges are coming from the manufacturer directly, as per their comments on my BBB complaint. They want me to pay for a new tub, because they want to 'recoup the cost of providing new equipment'.
If I were to have the tub fixed on site, the cost would be about $1000. I had an estimate done yesterday, so this just isn't an option, either.
During this entire episode, I can't help but think 'it's just a tub, why is the manufacturer being so insane about it?' They sell thousands of them, so why can they not absorb a couple grand? The hit to their pocket book is considerably less than the hit to mine. It just doesn't make sense...
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hahahahaha, so the manufacturer wants recoup the costs of honoring the warranty?
I have a feeling that after ALL the bad press from this, the "hit to their pocket" is going to be VASTLY more than just covering your spa.
Arctic had a fairly bad rep around here some years ago. It seemed to improve quite a bit when a few dealers and someone from the factory started posting here. I have a feeling that after this, there's not going to be another improvement.
Is this yet posted on the BBB website? And if so, can you post a link to it? I would love to read their official response.
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Not posted on BBB yet, but they closed the file this morning and I expect it to be added to their site shortly.
http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/swimming-pool-manufacturers-and-distributors/blue-falls-manufacturing-in-thorsby-ab-106215
Not surprisingly, they told me that if I wasn't happy with the warranty, I should have negotiated a better one. I guess BBB really is in bed with Business.
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Not posted on BBB yet, but they closed the file this morning and I expect it to be added to their site shortly.
http://www.bbb.org/edmonton/business-reviews/swimming-pool-manufacturers-and-distributors/blue-falls-manufacturing-in-thorsby-ab-106215
Not surprisingly, they told me that if I wasn't happy with the warranty, I should have negotiated a better one. I guess BBB really is in bed with Business.
BBB said that? How do you negotiate a better warranty. They are almost as asinine as Arctic. I hope this thread remains at the top on this forum for everyone to see what kind of company Arctic is
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But...it's not about getting a BETTER warranty, it about getting the warranty HONORED!
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I can't believe a "higher up" from Artic has not reached out to you to resolve this...the longer this thread is in a google the search the more they are "bending over to pickup a nickel when there is dollar bills falling out of there back pockets"
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I can't believe a "higher up" from Artic has not reached out to you to resolve this...the longer this thread is in a google the search the more they are "bending over to pickup a nickel when there is dollar bills falling out of there back pockets"
Yep..proof that those in charge are truly arrogant and stupid. Perfect recipe to ruin a business.
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I say we do everything we can to keep this thread alive. Hopefully it will help the OP to get his issue resolved. Failing that, then it will let every person who comes on this forum know what kind of treatment they can expect to get from Arctic.
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Arctic Spas will not be in the running for me now. thanks for the heads up
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Arctic Spas will not be in the running for me now. thanks for the heads up
I wouldn't rule Arctic out. Yes they have had some manufacturers defects. But the majority of dealers that sell them feel they are of good enough design and longevity to keep them in their windows. And they hold up as good as the rest. Tough shells, better than some insulation, nice cabinets and covers. Cool names. They are in my top 5, which means nothing.
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Although I truly believe that Arctic should step up and do the right thing, this is in their warranty statement: Spa replacement is done only at the discretion of Coyote spas®. Reasonable costs for the removal of the defective spa, and delivery and installation will be the responsibility of the spa owner. I personally don't understand how a spa becomes physically broken unless it was dropped or was manufactured defective from the beginning. If you see no stress fractures on the shell or other broken parts IMO then it was built around a crappy frame. Honestly my frame which is 10 YO still looks great and I know that other people based on what's been written here have old tubs that are still going strong.
I looked at my spa's warranty which is long expired and it had the same verbiage. Because the spa is physically broken Arctic should bite the bullet and just give the OP a new spa - period. I would find it interesting how they can explain a physically broken spa without other signs of damage. How a company treats it's customers tells exactly what they think of them ... I doubt that if Arctic ever had a dealer by me that I would visit them due to seeing how this is turning out; it's a shame because when I first got here I was pretty impressed by Arctic's performance.
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I’m guessing Arctic probably does make a pretty decent spa. That being said, part of the decision on which brand of spa you purchase has to be in how you’re going to be looked after if there is a problem. Even the best of products sometimes have problems. I have always said that the issue isn’t really if there is a problem (unless the brand or product has a reputation for problems), it’s how the problem is taken care of. In this case Arctic fails miserably. Given this, if I was in the market for a spa right now, I wouldn’t go near Arctic.
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From Arctic's Facebook page:
"Arctic Spas Hi there, I think this must be a mistake or a misunderstanding. First, I think you are referring to a Coyote Spa brand hot tub, which has a different design and warranty than an Arctic Spas brand hot tub. Arctic Spas have a lifetime structural warranty and Coyote Spas have a 7 year structural warranty. That aside, it is very rare that one of our hot tubs has a structural problem. When they do, it is often necessary for us to replace the spa rather than attempt a repair on site. If the pumps, heater, circuit boards and other equipment are fine and the only issue is a structural defect then this equipment is not replaced, it is swapped over to the replacement spa. Our warranty covers the cost for all of this and usually the local retail store where you bought it will cover the cost of delivery of the new one and removal of the old one. In some cases, customers are not comfortable with keeping the old (perfectly good) equipment. Therefore, we offer an option for them to pay for new equipment. To replace all of the pumps, heater, circuit boards and misc components could quite easily cost $2000. If these two distinct options were not clearly explained to you I apologize for that and hope we can sort it out and regain your trust"
Are they and the dealer covering the swap of components to a new structure?
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First of all, thank you everyone for all of your support during this mess. Some days I feel like fighting the good fight, and other days I want to dump the damn thing in the landfill and cry my eyes out while stuffing my face with chocolate (or any other comfort food I can get my hands on).
About a week ago, our local Consumer Watchdog called me to do a story on this warranty issue. He was going to call me as soon as he had spoken to the manufacturer, however, I have not heard from him yet, so my thought is that BlueFalls is not willing to talk.
That being said, on Monday I got a call from our government Consumer Investigative Unit about my complaint regarding BFM. They were going to contact them this week to get details around the warranty and call me back on Friday if they can get an answer from BFM.
All of a sudden, I get a call from the dealer. They are willing to cover all the labour costs and swap out the electronics and put them into a new tub (structural support/shell/plumbing). Although BFM is only going to pay 2 hours of labour, the dealer will cover the rest (you mean you'll cover the labour if it takes 5 hours to complete? Yes, we will do that for you). So, happy dance for me, right? Not so fast... the dealer is only willing to do this at their shop (faster to fix), not on-site (could take up to a day to fix), as what was originally proposed. Not that I blame them. We have 6 inches of snow on the ground as of yesterday. But this will still cost me. And as the Service guy said yesterday 'I never see customers choose this option, because it's so expensive to move the tub.' Well, duh! $1000 to get it moved there and back.
Option 2: BFM is still adamant that they are going to charge me $2000 for a new tub. But... the dealer will cover the delivery / set up charge and removal fee for my old tub, because BFM reimburses them.
So, I am out $1000 (dealer cost) to fix my tub at their shop, or $2000 (manufacturer costs) to get a new tub. Either way, I'm expected to pay for something that was delivered to me with a factory defect.
So... a lesson for hot tub newbies out there: when your tub gets delivered, CHECK THE SUPPORT STRUCTURE. Any cracks whatsoever, don't accept delivery, even if everyone swears up and down that this never happens. I wish I would have known what to look for, or that this was even a possibility. I was so excited to use it, I didn't even realize the wood was cracked. Stupid me.
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See my post above, but Arctic still fails, and fails miserably. You should not be out of pocket. Once again, really sorry you are going through this.
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I see that Blue Falls Manufacturing (aka Arctic and Coyote) is now playing a " oh, its not our best spa line" - that is a load of crap. A spa's stucture is not supposed to crack. What do they use to manufacture the structure balsam wood?
And I find it admirable that you are not holdiñg the dealer responsible but I do have a question - was the structure exposed while they were there installing the tub? If not, I wouldn't either but if it was then I would have to say why didn't one of the techs notice it?
I can definitely say that I won't be buying anything from Blue Falls Manufacturing whatever they may manufacture. There are so many classier manufactures out there that there's no reason to be treated this way.
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Yep, I agree that you should not be going through this so soon after purchase.
I think the issue is that the structural warranty makes no allowance for how long you have had your tub. You are being treated the same as if someone has had their tub for 6 1/2 years ..... and I could see why a manufacturer would be hesitant to give someone a complete brand new tub with all new components for $0.00 after 6 1/2 years of use.
The solution would possibly be to have a proration clause in the warranty. Something like $0.00 cost for a replacement tub in year one, then prorated up to $2000 or so (depending on the model, number of pumps etc) over the 7 year period.
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Also, the fact that this has somewhat "blown-up" tells me that this is likely not a common issue with Coyote/Arctic tubs and they have been caught somewhat off-guard and slow to respond (possibly due to internal bureaucracy sticking to "policy"). Hopefully they learn from this and make whatever changes necessary.
This should include a full investigation into why your tub failed (was there a chance it was dropped somewhere along the way?) .... maybe they might need to add an additional brace or support to the structure.. maybe improve the shipping mechanism/process ..... maybe the dealer should do a more thorough delivery inspection etc?
Arctic and Coyote are both decent spas, but the Arctic is definitely a big step up from the Coyote in terms of quality of construction .... I had a look at the internals and structure of both (they are not foam filled, but open cavity).
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First of all, thank you everyone for all of your support during this mess. Some days I feel like fighting the good fight, and other days I want to dump the damn thing in the landfill and cry my eyes out while stuffing my face with chocolate (or any other comfort food I can get my hands on).
About a week ago, our local Consumer Watchdog called me to do a story on this warranty issue. He was going to call me as soon as he had spoken to the manufacturer, however, I have not heard from him yet, so my thought is that BlueFalls is not willing to talk.
That being said, on Monday I got a call from our government Consumer Investigative Unit about my complaint regarding BFM. They were going to contact them this week to get details around the warranty and call me back on Friday if they can get an answer from BFM.
All of a sudden, I get a call from the dealer. They are willing to cover all the labour costs and swap out the electronics and put them into a new tub (structural support/shell/plumbing). Although BFM is only going to pay 2 hours of labour, the dealer will cover the rest (you mean you'll cover the labour if it takes 5 hours to complete? Yes, we will do that for you). So, happy dance for me, right? Not so fast... the dealer is only willing to do this at their shop (faster to fix), not on-site (could take up to a day to fix), as what was originally proposed. Not that I blame them. We have 6 inches of snow on the ground as of yesterday. But this will still cost me. And as the Service guy said yesterday 'I never see customers choose this option, because it's so expensive to move the tub.' Well, duh! $1000 to get it moved there and back.
Option 2: BFM is still adamant that they are going to charge me $2000 for a new tub. But... the dealer will cover the delivery / set up charge and removal fee for my old tub, because BFM reimburses them.
So, I am out $1000 (dealer cost) to fix my tub at their shop, or $2000 (manufacturer costs) to get a new tub. Either way, I'm expected to pay for something that was delivered to me with a factory defect.
So... a lesson for hot tub newbies out there: when your tub gets delivered, CHECK THE SUPPORT STRUCTURE. Any cracks whatsoever, don't accept delivery, even if everyone swears up and down that this never happens. I wish I would have known what to look for, or that this was even a possibility. I was so excited to use it, I didn't even realize the wood was cracked. Stupid me.
Why $1000? Is it a difficult delivery or do you live a distance from the dealer? Why not just rent a trailer or borrow one and get a couple friends to help you bring it to the dealer
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A couple of things:
The $1000 is just what was quoted to me by the dealer. I've also been quoted $800 from another moving company, and $700 from a third. We have not even considered this option, or considered renting a trailer, etc, because it was only proposed to us this week. Up until this point, it was 'fix on site', and the labour was going to be expensive. It's easy to get the tub out. No stairs, easy access, etc.
Second, when I did speak with Arctic's warranty department, the manager told me that he had learned the lumber used by the factory was defective. He thought it should be replaced, rather than fixed.
For those of you watching the Facebook thread, there has been a bit more discussion between me and Arctic.
https://www.facebook.com/Arctic.Spas.Hot.Tubs/posts/10153170475737036?comment_id=10153178430232036&reply_comment_id=10153182490867036¬if_t=share_reply (https://www.facebook.com/Arctic.Spas.Hot.Tubs/posts/10153170475737036?comment_id=10153178430232036&reply_comment_id=10153182490867036¬if_t=share_reply)