Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Andywmm9 on August 18, 2014, 10:17:33 pm
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Completely new to the forums. I'm not finding much difference on the two models. All I know is the price is 2k more of the sovereign. What extra do I get with it? I have to have color changing LED lights. My main concern is energy efficiency. How much extra electricity will the relay use?
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http://www.hotspring.com/compare-spa-models
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Buy anything except a Hotspring spa. In 18 months I've had three serious service problems with my Hotspring Grandee spa. It was an overpriced piece of junk. It is poorly made and unreliable.
I regret buying it. If you buy a Hotspring spa you're buying the antithesis of a relaxing spa. It will frustrate and annoy you.
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Buy anything except a Hotspring spa. In 18 months I've had three serious service problems with my Hotspring Grandee spa. It was an overpriced piece of junk. It is poorly made and unreliable.
I regret buying it. If you buy a Hotspring spa you're buying the antithesis of a relaxing spa. It will frustrate and annoy you.
Andywmm9,
I would not pay much attention to NZArtist. He has a personal gripe with Hotspring as you can see in another post he has going on this website. Maybe his concerns are valid for his particular case, but I wouldn't let his views influence your decision. Hotspring makes a good tub. I'm not a salesman, and in fact I don't even own Hotspring. I just recently purchased my first hot tub and bought a Jacuzzi. That being said, I do know Hotspring makes a good tub and they have a good reputation. Good luck with your decision!
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To start, I own a HS Envoy for over a year now and love it! Went through the worst winter ever in Chicago and it ran like a champ. My electric bill only went up about $30 during the coldest temps we've had in years. Pretty sure both Sovereign and Relay will have similar energy efficiency. Both are great spas, but since you asked what you get more for with the Sovereign, the items that jump out to me right away are as follows:
1. 100% filtration at all times.
2. Multi zone lighting. I have the pearl shell color which enhances the colors. (you will love the lighting options vs Relay)
3. Hello Moto-massage!
There are more differences that your dealer can over with you. I would also consider the Limelight pulse or Flair. As many, many mention on here you MUST test soak before you buy. The $2k difference is really nothing when you break it down over the course of ownership. In 15 years, it will only cost you a little over $10 bucks a month. Is it worth it?? I say it's a no brainer! Most people spend more than that at Starbucks getting a coffee! Good luck happy test soaking!
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I have had a Grandee for over a year now and it is almost maintenance- free. No regrets whatsoever. Glad I chose a HotSpring Spa. A beautiful piece of machinery!! :)
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Relay doesn't have a circ pump or ozonator built in.
Better hydrotherapy and jet variety in the Highlife models compared to the Hotspot line.
3 year extra warranty on the Highlife models
The Highlife line will be cheaper to run.
100 percent no by pass filtration. If you are getting a 2014 Highlife you are getting TRI X filters upfront.
More intuitive control screen on the Highlife line.
The new 2014 Highlife is a pretty darn good looking line. Hotspots are good looking as well for the price.
Those are just to start....
Porter
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I would not pay much attention to NZArtist. He has a personal gripe with Hotspring ...
... because their product, service, quality, heating, cost (both initial and ongoing) and reliability are terrible.
Really, ask yourself.... what motivates someone to come onto a hot-tub forum and complain so loudly about a product except that he's had an abysmal experience and would like to save other people from making the same mistake.
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I would not pay much attention to NZArtist. He has a personal gripe with Hotspring ...
... because their product, service, quality, heating, cost (both initial and ongoing) and reliability are terrible.
Really, ask yourself.... what motivates someone to come onto a hot-tub forum and complain so loudly about a product except that he's had an abysmal experience and would like to save other people from making the same mistake.
I don’t doubt for a minute that you’ve had an abysmal experience. What I’m saying however, is that you are by far the exception, not the rule. You will find most Hotspring owners on this and other forums are very satisfied with their products. Hotspring has a good reputation and I don’t think someone should be influenced to not purchase a Hotspring product because of “the exception”. Now if Hotspring had wide spread customer complaints, that would be a different matter. But the fact is, they don’t - most Hotspring customers are satisfied.
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I would not pay much attention to NZArtist. He has a personal gripe with Hotspring ...
... because their product, service, quality, heating, cost (both initial and ongoing) and reliability are terrible.
Really, ask yourself.... what motivates someone to come onto a hot-tub forum and complain so loudly about a product except that he's had an abysmal experience and would like to save other people from making the same mistake.
If your point is to avoid your particular dealer because they haven't been there for your issues then I understand your point giving you the full benefit of the doubt but if you're trying to say your experience means the manufacturer should be avoided at all costs... then that doesn't make sense.
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Thanks guys for the responses. My dealer quoted me 6400 for the relay and 8400 for the soverign. This includes the cover lifter, installation, and power box. Is this an ok deal or should I look for another dealer?
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If your point is to avoid your particular dealer because they haven't been there for your issues then I understand your point giving you the full benefit of the doubt but if you're trying to say your experience means the manufacturer should be avoided at all costs... then that doesn't make sense.
Fair comment. The ACE chlorinator has failed twice in 18 months. The pump seals have failed. The heater is underpowered. The cover straps were inadequate. These are problems of the quality of the Hotspring product. The high initial pricing of the spa and very high ongoing costs are representative of the hubris of the company.
The late service and bad attitudes of the service people are a product of the Hotsprings staff. I don't actually know if the company I'm dealing with is licensed to Hotspring or an actual office of Hotspring spas. In either case they're still representatives of Hotspring and Hotspring have a problem they need to address.
When people stop buying their spa pools maybe they'll consider doing something about it.
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I don’t doubt for a minute that you’ve had an abysmal experience. What I’m saying however, is that you are by far the exception, not the rule. You will find most Hotspring owners on this and other forums are very satisfied with their products. Hotspring has a good reputation and I don’t think someone should be influenced to not purchase a Hotspring product because of “the exception”. Now if Hotspring had wide spread customer complaints, that would be a different matter. But the fact is, they don’t - most Hotspring customers are satisfied.
Have you noticed how when someone comes onto this forum to point out the bad quality, design and pricing they're shouted down by the zealots?
"Your experience is incorrect because mine hasn't failed yet!" (Oh, and you're also probably not as smart as someone whose spa hasn't failed.)
Or the latest comments from today: "It's time to censor the guy who's having the bad experience."
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I don’t doubt for a minute that you’ve had an abysmal experience. What I’m saying however, is that you are by far the exception, not the rule. You will find most Hotspring owners on this and other forums are very satisfied with their products. Hotspring has a good reputation and I don’t think someone should be influenced to not purchase a Hotspring product because of “the exception”. Now if Hotspring had wide spread customer complaints, that would be a different matter. But the fact is, they don’t - most Hotspring customers are satisfied.
Have you noticed how when someone comes onto this forum to point out the bad quality, design and pricing they're shouted down by the zealots?
"Your experience is incorrect because mine hasn't failed yet!" (Oh, and you're also probably not as smart as someone whose spa hasn't failed.)
Or the latest comments from today: "It's time to censor the guy who's having the bad experience."
People are here to help, that hasn't changed. If you aren't getting answers from your dealer then try calling the manufacturer, that's why they post their number on their website.
When you come and basically state that your single experience is a full reflection on every spa that leaves the manufacturer's plant and their product should be avoided because of your single experience then that's where some here will push back.
BMW has a great reputation for their cars. I'm 100% sure that there are people out there who bought one and had multiple, frustrating issues with the car they bought. Hopefully their dealer steps up just as yours should but that doesn't mean BMWs should be avoided by everyone else.
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People are here to help, that hasn't changed. If you aren't getting answers from your dealer then try calling the manufacturer, that's why they post their number on their website.
The manufacturer in the US tells me to contact my local office, which is the people I'm dealing with.
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I don’t doubt for a minute that you’ve had an abysmal experience. What I’m saying however, is that you are by far the exception, not the rule. You will find most Hotspring owners on this and other forums are very satisfied with their products. Hotspring has a good reputation and I don’t think someone should be influenced to not purchase a Hotspring product because of “the exception”. Now if Hotspring had wide spread customer complaints, that would be a different matter. But the fact is, they don’t - most Hotspring customers are satisfied.
Have you noticed how when someone comes onto this forum to point out the bad quality, design and pricing they're shouted down by the zealots?
"Your experience is incorrect because mine hasn't failed yet!" (Oh, and you're also probably not as smart as someone whose spa hasn't failed.)
Or the latest comments from today: "It's time to censor the guy who's having the bad experience."
I'm not shouting you down nor am I a zealot. I don't even own a Hotspring. And I never once suggested you should be censored. In fact I said I didn't doubt you had a bad experience. What I said, and I stand by, is that others should not make buying decisions based on one person having a bad experience.
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I'm not shouting you down nor am I a zealot. I don't even own a Hotspring. And I never once suggested you should be censored. In fact I said I didn't doubt you had a bad experience. What I said, and I stand by, is that others should not make buying decisions based on one person having a bad experience.
Right, but if other people are shouting down someone who's sharing their negative experiences you're not going to see many people posting about negative experiences.
So if someone is persisting here and posting about obvious quality issues with the spa, whether it's unique to their experience or not, you absolutely should be weighing their experience in making a decision.
Other people have had bad experiences with the ACE system. I'm apparently a fool for buying it - I get that. So don't buy an ACE system.
Other people on this forum are as incredulous as I that the heater is a paltry 1500 watts. So don't buy a Hotspring spa in New Zealand.
The spa service person tells me the pump seal replacement is a common problem (but still it must be my fault) - other spas I've owned haven't had that common problem (and I haven't caused it on other spas...) so I don't know what your take on that is.
The cover straps ripped. They are thin vinyl. A nylon webbing strap would never rip. It's a poor manufacturing decision on behalf of the spa manufacturer.
None of these problems apparently are unique to me. It's not just my one bad spa.
If it was just the one or two problems I wouldn't even care. Every product has design deficiencies.
But come on! This Hotspring spa is poorly designed, and hideously overpriced for the bad quality.
It's *supposed* to be the BMW of spas. But if you slap a BMW logo on a Lada and charge a BMW price, regardless of your marketing expertise (where did they find a female voice actor for their robo-phones who can make 'Hotspring Spa' sound like something said during orgasm??) it's still a Lada and you're going to have a Lada experience.
Just so you know... I have a friend with a Lada and he loves it but I'm never going to buy one ever.
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I would absolutely agree with you on the Ace System. You will find people on this forum who defend it, but I’ve seen reports from lots and lots of others who have had major problems with it. Personally, I would not go near it.
As for the heater, once again we agree. I think it’s crazy that such a small heater is put in the spa. Having said that however, when I look on our North American Hotspring website, it lists the heater as 4000 watts (http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/highlife/7-person-large-hot-tubs-grandee). So, as you said, this must be a problem in New Zealand.
As for the pump seal replacement and vinyl straps, I don’t know anything about those. Not sure if they are a problem just in New Zealand or in other areas as well? I certainly don’t remember seeing those complaints on this forum, so I’m going to make the assumption that this may also be a problem just in New Zealand.
So, IF my assumption is correct, then three of the four problems you list are centered in New Zealand. Why then would someone in North America take your experience into account when buying their spa?
As an aside, I do think it is valuable when people post problems with their spas. It does help educate us and help us to know what to look for. But you didn’t just report what the problems were. You came out in a pretty aggressive manner and advised people not to buy the spa. I just personally think you went over the line - you were no longer informing us as to what the problems were and advising us what to look out for - it seems to me at least that you are trying to carry out a personal vendetta against HotSpring.
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I'm going to run with: The poor design, bad pumps, bad chlorinator, cheap cover straps, overpricing and high maintenance price are universal problems.
I'll grant you that the 1.5 kW pump is not a US problem.
That's just the cream on the cake.
Y'know it's possible that underpowered heater is the cause of some of the other problems. The heater turns off when any of the jet pumps are run. (You know, that moment when you need the most heat because the cold air from the jets is cooling the water fastest? Yeah, that's when the heater turns off). Because the water cools so very quickly when any of the jets are run we almost never run the jets. The exception is after a few people have been using the spa I'll run the cleaning cycle as soon as they get out of the spa.
So because the jets are rarely run the filtration is all happening through the cycle pump. The cycle pump has one filter and it's the one with the ACE chlorinator. So it's likely to be the filter most quickly getting clogged and preventing proper operation of the ACE system. (Why yes, I do clean the filters out monthly and rotate them).
I don't know. It's still the worst spa I've owned. Okay, I'll stop short of advising people in the US not to buy it. Go ahead - it's your money, time, and stress levels.
Certainly if you live in New Zealand (or any other country where the spa heater is around 1.5kW) don't touch these things with a barge pole - you'll end up hating it.
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NZartist
You hijacks other peoples posts. That is just bad form.
You want people to know you are unhappy, you want people to know about the terrible product you purchased and the terrible after service you have received. You have done it. If a new forum member comes on and asks for people personal experiences with Hotsprings Spas you have got your outlet. Stop hijacking other posts so you can vent. You come across like a raging teenager.
Porter
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regarding the price, here is what our local dealer quoted me:
I can do $6,200 on a 2014 Relay.
Price includes everything you need!
he also said that if they had one in stock already, he'd drop it to $5900