Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Rolacoy on June 21, 2014, 10:20:59 pm
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I am pretty sure our hot tub is the cause of my lung problems. We have have had the hot tub for a little less than a year. We used it on a daily basis, usually about 8:30pm for about 20 minutes. I never had any lung problems before we got the hot tub. Every time I get in the hot tub the mist off the water makes me start coughing. I just went out and opened the lid took three deep breaths and started coughing. We have only used the hot tub a few times over the last couple of months and my lung problem is much better. I still use oxygen at night, but seldom in the day time.
I have had he water tested and it is right where it should be as far as the chemicals. I have tried using oxygen while I am in the hot tub and that helps, because I am only breathing thru my nose and have to take in less air since I am getting a constant flow of oxygen. The tub is located in our garage so the air is trapped.
I am 74 and have a lot of issues with my joints and back problems that the hot water really helps. Any of you have similar experiences? We have tried a product called "The Frog" for hot tubs and it put a calcium scale all over the bottom of the hot tub. Any suggestions, I really don't want to give up the hot tub.
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What type of sanitizer are you using?
Also possibly install an exhaust fan in the garage for when you use the tub, crack the garage door and hopefully that will lower the concentration of whatever the water is giving off.
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"I have had he water tested and it is right where it should be as far as the chemicals. "
This tells us ABSOLUTELY nothing. We need to know EXACTLY what chemicals you're using, and EXACTLY what the numbers are.
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I have been using Bromine/Bromide, except when we used the Frog. Opening the garage for ventilation is an option. We can open the two garage doors in front 5 or 6 inches. However, when we open the back door the people behind us might have us arrested. When we first got the hot tub we used bathing suits, too much trouble. It's just her and I that have ever used the tub. We have been married over 55 years, we don't need bathing suits. I did try a box fan to blow the mist away, it helped.
I can test the water with a test strip and do. As far as the "Exact" composition of the water I will have to take a sample to our nearest Spa place, and I will do so, but it's 40 miles. I will take a sample the next time we go that way and report back with the numbers.
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One other question would be, how old is the water? Can't be more than a year by the sound of it, but a year can e a really long time for water,
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I think that I have changed the water and the filter three times,maybe four times. I am guessing the water is 4 months old. Also I ddid not state that I had added some Silky Swim that is supposed to keep the water from drying your skin. That caused it to foam and I added foamer. The two solved the dry skin.
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Are you using bromine in a floater? Dump the bromine and use chlorine as one of the methods suggested here.
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Are you using bromine in a floater? Dump the bromine and use chlorine as one of the methods suggested here.
I agree, use chlorine. I have been told that bromine does have a smell to it and it is in the water all the time. With chlorine you can soak with very little in it, put the correct amount in after soaking and it should be OK for your next soak. If you do smell chlorine then the tub needs to be shocked and you have 2 options - a higher level dose of chlorine or chlorine free shock.
As far as the exhaust fan, anything that will allow air to stop being concentrated will help. Since you can't open doors then you need mechanical ventilation. Just make sure that the air flow is across the tub to keep the air moving.
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I just checked the water, the bromine is depleted as I said, because I had not added any in several days to the floater. The PH is 8.4 and the Alkalinity is 240. I have chlorine that I can shock it with and no doubt it comes in pellets for a floater. Or I can do al you say and just add chlorine when we get out.
I really want to keep the hot tub, because it help in other ways. But, I can not keep breathing the mist/funes if it is going to kill my lungs. Thanks for the help.
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First off your PH is way too high, it should be around 7.4 not 8.4. Alkalinity seems very high as well
Bromine is never depleted in hot tub water; as it gets used up it turns into another form of bromine; adding chlorine to the spa turns the bromine active again. Maybe someone with more bromine experience can be more descriptive. In order to have your tub a chlorine tub you'll need to drain the tub and start fresh - and by chlorine I am talking about dichlor not trichlor or cal hypo.
Here's a link to what some of us do: http://www.rhtubs.com/bbs/FAQ.htm look for the name Vermonter and read what he does. I have used this method for 9 years very successfully. I have only had 1 person claim the got the dreaded hot tub rash from my tub ... it was my son's girl friend at the time - she got it and my son didn't; can't really explain why she got it.
At this point I see no reason why you can't keep the tub. You said a box fan helped - great but the air went nowhere. If you are considering an exhaust fan and depending on how your garage is situated I may look into a gable mounted fan like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Master-Flow-1540-CFM-Power-Gable-Mount-Vent-in-Mill-PG2/100014195 or if you have access to a roof and can put an opening maybe something like this: http://www.fantech.net/FR-140_enus-411333.aspx I have heard a lot of good things about inline fans and am currently in the process of a bathroom remodel and have bought a fan from this company but I haven't had it installed yet.
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By all means, keep the tub, just fix the water.
Vinny is right, it is your pH and alkalinity.
ANY TIME YOU SMELL anything in the water, the water is telling you the pH and or alkalinity is out of whack. It causes "gas" to come off of the waters surface and you are inhaling a chemical gas.
Vinny also refers to Vermonter who is a strong proponent of ozone, and he addresses all of the various issues of concern when using ozone. I would strongly advise seeking out advice on ozone applications to reduce the dependency on the chemicals.
Again, Vinny is right, there is only ONE chlorine chemical used in hot tub and that is di-chlor. It is in a granular form, everything else is for POOLS. Di-chlor is pH neutral, and Bromine has a low pH constantly changing your pH level.
Your first test is sight and smell, your next test is a dip strip. This 40 mile trip to check your water is a bigger problem than you think. Buy a Taylors Test Kit, or buy some test strips, and pay attention to the pH and Alkalinity of the water.
If you can "smell" the water, or "see" the water, test your water, there is something wrong.
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I say it's an over concentration of bromine. My wife had the same problem. The bromine was off the charts. I changed the water; got the bromine where it should be, and no more problems. She had to go to the doctor due her lung problem being so bad.
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I went to ER 4 times 6 months ago and am on oxygen every night and have oxygen to use in the daytime. I don't blame all of that on the hot tub, I think that I may have been having breathing problems for some time and the hot tub just pushed me over the edge. This I say, because the last two times I have been above 8000 feet in Colorado I got altitude sickness. I am doing much better now, but for the last two months we have only used the hot tub a few times.
I am aware that the PH is way too high and we never used the tub when it was that high. Up till a couple of months age we used the tub ever night and I kept the water in the correct limits. since we have not been using the tub I have kind of let it go. And I agree if you can smell the water something is wrong. I know something is wrong, that's why I am asking the questions. I have it running right now I have added bromine to bring it back up and will see where the PH goes. I have been told to get the bromine right and the PH will come back in limits by one of the local spa places.
The only chlorine (shock) that I have on hand is HTH and all it says is that the contents is calcium hypochlorite. This hot tub has been a battle of chemicals, we had an 18'x32' above ground pool years ago when the kids were young and it was never this much trouble.
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I just came in from the garage, I turned off the pump. I will check the chemical levels tonight. The water is cloudy and there is a scum line around the tub. I have 11 bottles of stuff that are supposed to keep it so I can get into this sparkling clear water and take a soak.
We are going out of town for a few days this week when I return I will drain the water, clean the tub, change the filter and refill it with water. Each time I have refilled it the water would be easy to keep balanced for about a month. Then it seems like I have to keep adding something and pretty soon we are not soaking in water, but floating on chemicals.
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The HTH chlorine is the wrong chlorine to use - it is pool chlorine and you are adding calcium every time you are adding it.
Here is how to use bromine: http://www.rhtubs.com/BROMINE.htm I am not trying to insult you but it's possible that you are using it wrong; I don't know anything about bromine as I use chlorine.
If you are soaking every day, it is quite possible that you do need to drain the spa every month, especially if you are adding various items to make your skin soft and adding various chemicals because things aren't "right" ... and you are correct - a pool is MUCH easier to maintain until you get the spa down pat. The reason is you have 13000 gallons vs 400 gallons. 11 bottles is way too much stuff to have on hand unless you are dealing with problematic water and even then I think it's too much.
I would start with your tap water readings and post them and if you decide to keep at it with bromine, please read the link I put here. For whatever reasons why you use chlorine, go to a spa store or buy online - sodium dichlor. If your spa is funky you may want to clean it using some type of plumbing cleaner like Ahh-some.
My advice to you and only it's because it seems more people are using chlorine than bromine is to switch and see how it goes. By soaking every day you don't have any worries about your tub getting out of control ... the only advice about that as well is to use non chlorine shock mostly but then shock with chlorine every couple of weeks. Non chlorine shock will burn up the combined chlorine and allow you to use the tub in 20 minutes, chlorine will be high for at least a day or so.
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I have it running again, the garage is open and I will try it tonight and see how it is with more ventilation. I would really like to keep it, but all this chemistry is getting me down. I am an artist not a chemist. I don't know, I am discouraged with the whole mess. We bought it used for $1500.00 and can probably sell it for that much. It's in really good shape. It's a three person hot tub. If I sold it I could put a jetted tub in the house for about that much and have fresh water every time I used it.
But, like I said I want to keep the hot tub, it feels so goo in the winter. We will take our trip, drain the water and try the bromine once more. Then try chlorine, if that does't work I'll just have to sell the thing.
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So here's a problem - you are going to use a tub with bad chemical readings, a scum line and cloudy - NOT GOOD!!! You probably WILL have a reaction. I would not go into that water if it were me.
It's OK to be an artist and you don't need to be a chemist. You came to the right place and we are trying to help you ... the problem may be you didn't have the correct knowledge to begin with. And everybody's water is different, I can do something with my water and it doesn't work for someone else. But the idea is getting the knowledge of what does work and perfecting it - it becomes easier.
Did you read the link on how to use bromine?
Find out what the readings are from the water coming out of the tap. Before adding anything you need to know where you started and where you need to go. Here's a link to a presentation from Taylor: http://www.njeha.org/Past%20Atlantic%20City%20Conference/2011%20Conference/2011%20-%20Conference%20Presentations/Basic%20Water%20Chemistry%20&%20Testing-%20Taylor%20Technologies.pdf It is about the terminology and ranges of everything you need to know - you don't need to study it you just need to get an idea of what you are shooting for.
Make sure you have the correct chemicals - 11 bottles of "stuff" is a lot but without knowing what that stuff is - we can't guide you.
Hang in there, there are a lot of good and knowledgeable people here and hopefully we'll make your tub experience better!
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Sorry, I don't mean to whine. I did read the bromine link. I did check the "raw" water when we filled it last, but I did not write it down, I will this time. OK I will stay out and dump the water in the morning. All the 11 bottles of stuff are, Bromine, PHup, PHdown, Alkalinity Plus, defoamer, SilkySpa, Shock, Clarifier, Enzyme Cleaner, Non-Foaming Algicide, Calcium Increaser, and Filter cleaner. A lot these came with the tub and I haven't used them and some I bought at the recommendation of the spa dealers.
Thanks for the help.
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No need to apologize and you're not whining, you're frustrated and I understand. I had a pool for a few years before getting the tub and like you said it was much easier. I thought I knew it all with the pool - WRONG! I have to do things differently with the tub's water then the pool water and the water comes from the same tap! So I learned the difference and live happily with both.
So based on my limited knowledge of bromine, I think you need a bromine starter. I believe that the starter builds a reserve for the bromine that you add whenever (daily?).
PH plus & down - usage depends on where your starting water is and where it goes as you use the tub.
Alkalinity Plus - I use baking soda which is basically the same thing. I have to raise the alkalinity in my tub for the PH to stay somewhat constant, for some people they have to lower it. You may or may not need this.
Algaecide - you don't need this at all in a spa.
Calcium increaser - may or may not need this depending on tap. I don't use calcium increaser at all in my spa. I believe that low calcium is only bad for plaster (ANYBODY FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME ON THIS).
Defoamer - only need this if foaming gets bad. Since you go in without suits, you may not need this unless the silky spa causes foaming. Scooping out foam with a pool skimmer works well ... may be a little hard in a garage though.
Clarifier - only need it if the tub doesn't look clear and you only need a small amount. This will cause foaming.
Enzyme cleaner - if this is the type for "normal use" then you probably don't need it. I used to use it and honestly I don't think it did anything. If this is for cleaning the tub's plumbing then it could be beneficial.
Silky spa - if it makes your skin feel better then use it, just realize that anything added to the water affects the water and could make the amount of time to a refill a lot shorter, may cause foaming, may cause cloudiness or cause one of the other parameters to do something.
Filter cleaner - this can cause foaming big time! If it isn't rinsed out extremely well you'll get foam.
Shock - can either be chlorine or non chlorine. If it is the Calcium Hypochlorite don't use it. Non chlorine shock is potassium monopersulfate and if this is what you have then you're good to go. If you want to use chlorine as a shock then buy the sodium dichlor.
Before adding any bromine to the tub you need to know what the other parameters of the water are. If you need to increase or decrease - add stuff a little at a time. It's better to add then to over shoot.
Unfortunately, the people who should know don't and they give you the wrong answers. I remember going into a pool store because the stabilizer level in my pool was close to 100 (it should be about 30) and the pool people were like "nah, it's OK , that's what we shoot for"; the correct answer is to drain and refill to get rid of the CYA.
BTW, my tub hasn't had ozone in it for the past 7 1/2 years. I personally don't think it adds that much to sanitizing water and it also off gases into the air that you may be breathing. If your tub has ozone that may be a culprit to your problems as well. It may not be working since you said you bought the tub used ... the ozone units only last a finite number of hours and then stop working.
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I went to the doctor today and the doctor took a specimen. I took a water specimen with me to a Spa place, they were closed. Did I get them mixed up, no no no, I don't think so. The doctor said the specimen looked good, the Spa place was closed.
Wee are leaving town tomorrow for a few days so I will wait till I get back to deal with. the hot tub. thanks for the help, I will be back in touch.
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I have been working with the water that I have today. We are leaving town for 4 or 5 days and I didn't want to leave it empty. the calcium deposits that I have got to scrub out might get harder. Ok, so if the PH is high I have to add acid. I have been adding PH reducer to today just to see what I can do with it. I still plan to dump it, clean the tub and start over when we return home. I think that I will be near a spa place tomorrow. My wife has a dr appt. I will take some water with me.
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If you have calcium build up, do not drain your water, but lower the pH to the 6.4 to 6.6 which is lower than normal. This will allow some of the calcium to be pulled back into the water while you are gone, and then drain the spa when you return.
If calcium is in the shell it is inside the plumbing also, and we want to pull it back into the water before you drain the water to eliminate the calcium build up problem. You do not want to drain and empty the spa allowing the calcium to dry and adhere to the shell and other parts of the spa both internal and external.
You are on well water, and you do not pay attention to what the water chemistry should be. pH out of whack is going to give you gas off the water and that is why you wife is experiencing the breathing issues, and with calcium building up, you are not using stain and scale to prevent the calcium accumulation.
Owning a spa, using it, and enjoying it should be like a walk in the park. Once you get acquainted to what to pay attention to, i.e. pH, Alkalinity, proper water care etc. this should really be easy, but you are not noticing or changing any of the problems that occur. The water should always be sparkling clean, crystal clear, with an invitation to drink. You should not see cloudy water, yellow or green water; it should be "clean and clear", without any odor or smell.
Please lower your pH before leaving town, so it will soften while you are gone, and then drain it and refill it when you return and we will help in getting it set up and off to a good start.
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The calcium build-up happened as soon as we started using "The Frog". So from what you say for some reason the PH must have got high and the calcium came out of solution and stuck to the tub. I will do what you say, I was hoping I would not have to scrub it all off.
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I put more PH reducer and it seems to be leaching the calcium back into the water. I let the jets run to get a good mix, but it's off now. It sure smelled up the garage. I have the back door and both drive thru doors up. I am watching a movie, another 30 minutes, the air should be clear by then.
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Clovers post is right on...Good advice!
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This morning the PH was off the chart low PH and the calcium is gone, great! I added some PH Plus and ot it too high. Added some PH reducer and have got it at about 7.4. We are going to the doctor and I will take a sample, in fact I will take two, because there are two Spa companies close to where we will be.
I still plan to dump the water when we return home. This has been my chemistry lesson.
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Rolocoy, we are all good people here, and so are you. But, now we have to make you more knowledgable on water management. This can be really easy, like riding a bike once you get the hang of it.
Hot Tubs are to be enjoyed, and in your case it has become a source of unwanted issues. When you return, drain the water, come back to us so we can "establish" clean and clear water enjoyment. Your problem in the past has been your assumption that it will take care of itself while you use and enjoy. When you get your water tested and 2 different places, pick up some "dip strips" for your personal use at home.
This is simply a water management issue. It is about the sweat, oils, and lotions that you and your wife leave behind. If the water is clean and clear when you use it, as it should be, you will be the first to notice it when it changes or smells, and now it will be your job to ask us why, and how to proceed. This should be really easy, if you relax and let us help.
Ask all the questions you want, even old dogs like me learn new tricks, but we need to help you get a "new" start that will help both you and your wife to enjoy the comforts of hot water.
Enjoy your travels, and check in when you get back
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I'm glad to see that clover was able to help!
I missed that you are on well water and that your tub was full of scale.
And I agree what clover said in the last post.
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Sorry, for the misunderstanding we are on City water, not well water. I worked at trying to get the PH right before we left town. We took two samples to two different spa places and had the water tested.
Place A: PH-7.7, TA-115, Calcium hardness- 200, Bromine-0.
Place B: PH-7.5, TA-20ppm, Hardness-120ppm, Bromine-1.5ppm
Place A recommended that I switch to a Hydrogen Peroxide based water system. He said it would eliminate the fumes that are bothering my lungs. He said it worked good for hot tubs, but was too expensive for pools. It would cost me about $60.00 to switch.
Place told not to use Hydrogen Peroxide, that it was for pools.
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I am draining the hot tub and all of the calcium deposits are gone. Dropping the PH way down sucked it back into the water. I will clean it up this afternoon after I have had a nap. Then I will refill it with water. Once I have done that I plan to take a sample back to the spa people and see how the tap water tests. I want to try the Frog again. For one reason I still have two of the bromine cartridges. I think from what you all have told me the calcium deposit was caused by the wrong kind a shock and letting the PH get too high.
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No, it was not using stain and scale that prevents the calcium build up.
However, if the Frog perciptated the calcium problem as you suggested, is it wise to go back to that right away, or should we establish clean, clear water first by balancing the pH and alkalinity, adding granular chlorine (di-chlor) in the meantime.
Did you pick up any test strips, or a test taylor test kit to check your own water? Relying on other sources 40 miles away can lead to delays and water conditions. There are people here willing to talk you through things. It only complicates matters if you go to 2 different places, get 2 different opinions, with sombody selling you something as the solution.
it would be easier if your wife could depend on you learning how to test you water on site, with simple adjustments, you will find this to be very simple twice a week.
It's time to pick your advisors, too many cooks will ruin the stew.
How long have you owned this hot tub?
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I'm glad that the calcium went back into the water!
Before you go to any store, please re-read the bromine link I posted and if you need bromine starter then pick it up as well. Something to consider is to pick up at least test strips as the dealers had different numbers for your water.
I can't comment on using peroxide as I use dichlor and bleach and that has been easy and economical for me.
When you put the water in the tub and if you need to adjust something (everything) add whatever a little at a time- the PH of my water out of the tap is 7.0 or below and adding a little bit of baking soda (maybe less then 8 oz) will raise it to 7.4.
If you are unsure- ask here.
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I have always had test strips and have had the hot tub for about a year. I have tried and tried and just cain't seem to get the balance down right. Maybe I am getting in a hurry and over correcting and pretty soon I feel like I am floating on chemicals. I just figured the spa people could test it better than I can. But, you are right, they want to sell something and everyone has a different cure.
I have got to go into town tomorrow. I plan to get the correct shock. Also I am going to call the Frog Manufacturer and talk to them about the Frog system and how to start it up correctly.
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I'm a new hot tub owner and have found that you are better off to test your own water. I took the same water sample to two different dealers and got two different results. One of those dealers had a computerized testing system, and told me that I would probably get more accurate results with the Taylor test kit. I now do all my own water tests. I really think you need to get a Taylor test kit and learn how to properly balance your water. It can be confusing at first, but once you get it, it shouldn't be at all difficult from there.
I'll also let you know that we are using hydrogen peroxide in our tub. As I said, we are new tub owners, but so far we love the hydrogen peroxide. We found out about it from a friend who has been using it successfully for some time now.
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Coming in late to the discussion. I am guessing that, since spa cost was $1500, it was used. A spa purge product should be used to clean the pipes. Hopefully a new filter was installed. Part of what you may be dealing with is a former owners garbage.
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We did buy the hot tub from a friend for $1500.00, it was in use and in very good shape, clean and working properly. We did install a new filter. Any troubles have come from my poor use of chemicals thru lack of understanding. I am going to use the Frog again, now that I understand where the calcium came from. What has confounded me is that the hot tub has been so much harder to control than a swimming pool. If the Frog does not work I plan to try the hydrogen peroxide system. I really don't want to get rid of the hot tub.
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It's refilled and heated to about 95 degrees. The TA is 240+ and the PH is 8.4+. I put about 2 table spoons of HTH reducer. Will a couple of hours of running stabilize what I have put into the water? I mean can I get a reliable reading in two hours?
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If you have ran the jets to really mix the water then yes it should be OK. Typically I put whatever chemical in and run the jets for a while (10 minutes) to make sure its mixed and has entirely dissolved.
You can soak in the water if you'd like and because its fresh it may not affect your breathing ( kind of like taking a bath) but if the numbers aren't good I wouldn't try to adjust anything if you are going to soak, wait until you're done and continue.
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I just got out and it felt soooooooooo good. It bothered me just a very little bit, but I know that the TA and PH are high. I will test them tomorrow and make further adjustments if necessary.
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I just got out and it felt soooooooooo good. It bothered me just a very little bit, but I know that the TA and PH are high. I will test them tomorrow and make further adjustments if necessary.
Please allow me to comment once again, pH out of the 7.2 to 7.6 range will cause elements of gas to rise off of the water surface, which is the air you breath.
Adjusting the pH between 7.2 to 7.6 will take only moments adding pH decreaser, but could take a little more time to come to a true reading.
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And, of course, need to get the TA down to the 100 +/- or the pH will continue to drift up. It will take a lot more pH down to do so.
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The PH has been the battle that I have fought ever since I got the hot tub. I am ready to put the Frog system in the tub tonight. I have had to use a lot of PH reducer, at least a half of a cup. I have been putting it in a lid at a time to keep from going over to low PH. I hope this works.
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Just so you know with a starting TA of 240 and a PH of 8.4 or more you will need to use a lot of PH minus.
The TA buffers the PH to keep it from swinging around and typically you are shooting for around 100 for the TA.
So the scenario is you put PH minus in the tub, the PH attempts to move down, the TA stops it from moving down, PH stays put and TA is reduced somewhat. But at some point you do start to move the PH down because the TA is out of it's buffering capability. It is also possible for the PH to start going up again because the TA "catches up" with what you are doing and using the jets in the tub will aerate the water and possibly cause the PH to rise.
Others on here who start out with water like yours (high TA) lower the TA to 40 or so and use a product to raise the PH without touching the TA.
Honestly it all sounds complicated but the good news is after you do it once or twice you'll know that you need "4 capfuls" of PH minus to accomplish the task. There was posted a chemical calculator somewhere on here and it can tell you how much of whatever to put in.
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I just checked it and the PH and TA are about right, but I got the bromine high. Bromine will come down and when it gets about right I will put the Frog in the tub.
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It seems that everything is right so in goes the new frog. I set it as per the instructions. My wife and I were in the HT the evening of the 2nd and I was in the HT twice on July 3. Yes, we did shower before we got into the HT. Here are my results:
July 3 8:30 AM
Bromine 2/2
PH 7.4
TA 80
Frog in the water
July 3 8:30 PM
Bromine 1/2
PH 7.2
TA 100
July 4 8 AM
Bromine 0/0
PH 7.2
TA 80
Added teaspoon of bromine
8:30 AM bromine at 5/10
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So, How did it go?
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We used the HT last night and here is the results. It seems that the Frog is not putting any Bromine into the water.
July 4 8 PM
Bromide 1/2
PH 7.2
TA 80
It sure felt good, we were in before the heater came on and it was a little cool, but still good. I am not getting a calcium build up. The water is still sparkling clear. I opened the doors just a bit and turned a box fan on to blow across the HT. ALL IS WELL.
Thank you all for the help.
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I'm glad you're able to use it without problems.
I've read that adding a little bit of chlorine will reactivate the bromine - don't let your sanitizer get too low so your tub gets yucky.
Something you might want to keep in mind is if you start having problems and the water is oldish (over a month old) you may just want to consider changing the water out. It could be the best solution to your problems.
Hopefully all the bad stuff is behind you - ENJOY!
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I refilled the HT last Saturday so the water is only a week old. I have kept this new water pretty much right where it is supposed to be. And am using it daily.
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My wife and I have been using the tub at night, but mostly me. These are my test results. Sorry they are long, don't bother if you don't want. But any suggestions are welcome. I just don't see whare the Frog is doing anything.
HOT TUB
July 3 8:30 AM, Bromine 2/2, PH 7.4, TA 80
Frog in the water
July 3 8:30 PM, Bromine 1/2, PH 7.2, TA 100
July 4 8 AM, Bromine 0/0, PH 7.2, TA 80
Added teaspoon of diamond Sana spa, 8:30 AM bromide at 5/10
July 4 8 PM, Bromine 1/2, PH 7.2, TA 80
July 5 9:30 PM, Bromine 0/0, PH 7.2, TA is 80
I added 1 tablespoon of diamond Sana spa
July 6 8 AM, Bromine 1/3, PH 7.3, TA 80
July 6 9 PM, Bromine 1/2, PH 7.3 , TA 80
I added 1 tablespoon of diamond Sana spa
July 7 9 AM, Bromine 5/10, PH 7.4, TA 100
July 7 9 PM, Bromine 1/2, PH 7.4, TA 100
July 8 at 10 PM, Bromine 1/1, PH 7.2 ,TSA 90
July 11 10:00 AM, I had to change types of test strips, Bromine .5, PH 7.2, TA 40
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TA took a dip to 40, you need to icrease alkalinity. What does you water look like, clean & clear, no odors no cloudy water?
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The TA "measurement" dipped to 40, but as was noted "I had to change types of test strips". Test strips are pretty much useless. This is why I recommend using the Taylor K-2006 for chlorine or the Taylor K-2106 for bromine. Yes, the TA will drop slowly over time when using bromine tabs since they are net acidic, but it won't drop from 80 to 40 over 2-1/2 days when it was stable the previous 5 days. Roughly speaking, every 10 ppm bromine from tabs will lower the TA by 4 ppm. So a 40 ppm drop would take 100 ppm bromine usage from tabs.
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Yes I think it was I ran out of HTH test strips and used something else. I will get some more HTH. The water is still clear and had a bit of bromine smell, but not bad. I will see if the TA is stable at 40 for a day or so and bump it back up a bit.
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You really might want to take Chemgeek's advice and get yourself a Taylor test kit. That way you will know that your readings are accurate. It would also help others on this forum to give you advice, as they will know the numbers you are providing are correct. Something for you to consider.
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.....The water is still clear and had a bit of bromine smell, but not bad. I will see if the TA is stable at 40 for a day or so and bump it back up a bit.
ding, ding, ding, that's your "smeller tester" going off, and by your measurements so noted, you found the answer to your problem that is causing GAS off the water, which is what you smell, and this is where your breathing problems begin to occur. Adjust it Now, don't wait a day, that doesn't solve your problem. Your alkalinity needs to be 80 to 120 and now you know it needs to go up with alkalinity increaser, and then test alkalinity again until you are within the target range.
Adjustment to not occur immediately, so give it some time to circulate
Even chemgeek uses sight and smell first and can recognize the conditions before testing. You just need to know when to test and when to take action. Pretty soon, you will be "flying by the seat of your pants" in clean clear water. Waiting a day only compounds the problem.
Also, you may recognize what recently happened that caused you water to change.
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I am slowly bringing the TA up, it's about 80 now. I guess the "ding, ding, ding" means I am stupid. Could be or maybe just ignorant. Anyway the water is still clear, feels great and nearly no smell. I still don't know what the Frog is doing.
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"ding, ding, ding" means I am stupid. Could be or maybe just ignorant. Anyway the water is still clear, feels great and nearly no smell.
No, not at all, it means you are doing exactly what I was talking about, smelling your water, and that is your smell tester that is alerting you that you water is out of balance, take notice. Left uncorrected, it progressively gets worse, and you have been there before.
As for ignorant, which is the lack of knowledge on a particular subject like brain surgery, well, we are all ignorant about something aren't we. Ask Chemgeek. ;)
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Rolacoy -
I hope you aren't feeling stupid or ignorant. I personally have very much appreciated this post and following you through this process -- it has taught me a couple of things that will be helpful to my own water balancing. This is why I have continued to check in to this forum after purchasing my tub. We all have things we need advice on, and we all have things that we have learned along the way that might help somebody else.
I think the water is confusing to a lot of the us. But, thanks to the forum, I'm feeling a lot more confident than when I started a few months ago!
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+1 to what Doodle said. ;)
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Me thinks you are testing too much. Please relax and enjoy. sounds like you are close to control.
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Here I am back. We quit using our tub all summer, I used it couple of times this fall. I decided to sell it, but I am getting second thoughts. My wife just won't use it, I think it's too much trouble for her. The last time I used it I went to sleep tow or three times in 20 minutes. We do use those blowup neck pillows to keep our head up. I get bored in it by myself. I just refilled it to show the clean bubbly water, but I want to get back into it and use it some more. I am working on the chemical balance, The TA is real high.
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In spite of your decision to sell it, you may as well use it while you are waiting for your buyer.
The couple of times you did use it, you seem to have relaxed = mission accomplished.
Now let's get the water "right" again and see how it goes.
Lower your alkalinity, confirm the pH and Alk readings to be where they belong, then use it.
Follow up after use to monitor readings and observe any changes, adjust accordingly
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I stated that I had just refilled our hot tub, actually I think I must have filled it on the 7th today is the 10th. Before we stopped using it in late spring I had the water in good shape. I used the Frog and it seemed to be working good. This last filling took some time to come up to temp and I was busy doing other things. I tested the water about noon today. The PH and TA were well above thee colors on the test strip. I don't have anything to bring the TA down, but I have been adding about 1/2 lid of PH-Down and I think the PH and TA has started to come down. I am trying to take it slow. I put in about 1/2 lid of Bromine and that was too much, but it is down to 3, with these test strips ,5 - 1 is normal. Thee TA is 240 and PH is still 8.4. I a sealed container of our tap water in the hot tub and tested it, bromine was 0, TA was 240+ and the PH was 8.4+.
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Use pH reducer to bring the alkalinity down, as well as lower the pH. Bring the numbers into the OK range, use and enjoy, while testing your water every other day to monitor it to stay in the correct range.
Let us know how it goes for you.
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Opening the garage for ventilation is an option.
As far as the "Exact" composition of the water I will have to take a sample to our nearest Spa place, and I will do so, but it's 40 miles. I will take a sample the next time we go that way and report back with the numbers.
Boom, problem solved. No proper ventilation. If you put it in your garage, you have to have a ventilation system in place. I put mine in an enclosed area in the back yard. IF you do put it in a garage, it 100% must be ventilated. Also, your going to need something to stop the spa from ruining the paint, walls, etc from the steam and all.
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I added 2 lids full of PH-down last night. This morning the TA was down to about 180, I added a half lid this morning and will test later. I must have added 5 lids of PH-down to get the water down to 180. Is our water that hard?
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All water must be considered as different, and thus the reason of on site testing to identify conditions, especially when things change. Be patient and follow the test results and adjust accordingly.