Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Mendocino101 on June 19, 2004, 11:50:24 am
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I have noticed something that I hope some of the Industry guys here might be able to answer...I have noticed that “most” of the older and without a getting into a big debate, commonly respected Manufactures...Hot Springs, Sundance, Marquis, Beachcomber make full foam tubs.... while many of the newer or smaller makers use the thermo design...without getting into who is better.... I believe each have their own merits as well cons.... is it easier to start up and build this way...(thermo) I know when I toured both types of factory’s... while in the full foam makers I was told while watching the foam being installed that it was the most difficult part of the manufacturing process....
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I don't understand whats so dificult. The spa is upside down, the cabinet is on. The equipment area is protected. ready aim fire, what's so difficult? Free flow is a start up and they are full foamed. With respect to thermopane style, if you only foam the shell and not the plumbing, sure it's a little easier, but if you foam your plumbing also, there seems to be a lot more care needs to be taken so your tub doesn't become full foam. I would guess it is solely the prefrence of the specific manufacturer weather or not they full foam.
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Aside for the R value issue the most important thing regarding thermopane is how well the plumbing pipes are foamed around where they are attached to the jet fittings to help support them.
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If you go with a full foam spa process, you have to be careful about placing the pumps in one certain area. Most of the multi-pump non-foam spas have pumps all over under the spa. The non-foam design thus also gives you a little more room to "un-kink" the plumbing coming off the pumps.
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Some respectable companys use thermo pane design. Coleman has been using the thermo pane design for 15+ years. so not just start up companies use the design. In terms of which is more diffucult to do they both have their techniques to make the process as efficient as possible.
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Hey dpgtech....
by no means was I saying all of the older company's use full foam...that is why I said "most"....and again I am not touting who is better..but I did notice that more newer company's tend to go thermo....is all.....and again I was told the application of the foam is the hardest job in the build process.....
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and again I say...I don't understand whats so dificult. The spa is upside down, the cabinet is on. The equipment area is protected. ready aim fire, what's so difficult?
Hey dpgtech....
by no means was I saying all of the older company's use full foam...that is why I said "most"....and again I am not touting who is better..but I did notice that more newer company's tend to go thermo....is all.....and again I was told the application of the foam is the hardest job in the build process.....
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Wisoki,
I understand your point, but I believe it is the layering of the foam that is difficult. I know both Hotspring and Sundance use different density foams for different areas of the inside of the cabinet.
Chris H.
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The cabinet is not on when the tub is foamed. If it were, the sides would blow out when the foam expanded.
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The cabinet is not on when the tub is foamed. If it were, the sides would blow out when the foam expanded.
Not true for HotSpring - the cabinet is most deffinitely in place as the foam is applied - but you're beginning to see why applying the foam is the high-paying job in the plant.
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Again not too dificult. As Jacuzzi and Sundance ( I cannot speak to HotSpring spas) a very heavy brown paper is stapled to the wood frame to prevent the foam from sticking to the cabinet. I am pretty sure the "foam spraying technician" knows full well that the foam expands at aproxamatly 3x it's original volume. OK, so what. In the case of HotSpring Spas, the 2# foam is sprayed in until the "technician" know the expansion will reach about 2-3" from the spas floor. When that foam sets, the spa rolls down the line to the 3# density foam spraying "technician". Sorry guys, but since most of these processes are mechanized and computerized, I cannot fathom what the percieved dificulty is.
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Sorry guys, but since most of these processes are mechanized and computerized, I cannot fathom what the percieved dificulty is.
And therein lies the answer to the original question?
It's easier to start up and build thermo because such a mechanized and computerized process is not necessary? Brutus just connects the thermo panels together??
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Sorry.... I didn't mean to come off so defensive. You did say many.. We sell both full foam and thermo... From a tech stand point thermo is the best, I'll give an example
We recently had two New colemans leak from between the compensating ring and the lock nut on one of the large cyclone jets. Talk about easy to find and fix. two months ago I had A J-385 leak from one of the max power pro jets in the footwell. this one was harder to find and fix because of the full foam; more time consuming removing wet foam and replacing. once you get to the problem it is same as the coleman to fix. the time difference to verify a leak between the two can be big depending model and location of leak. so From a repair standpoint I like the thermo. I know we weren't trying to tout who is better, just my Humble opinion on what I like to repair better.
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Sorry.... I didn't mean to come off so defensive. You did say many.. We sell both full foam and thermo...
dpgtech,
I'm curious, Do you sell between the two brands or are you strickly in the service end of the business.
The reason I'm asking is, this seems to be the case of a spa store that can sell both types of insulation side by side without degrading the other. Very interesting!!!
Spahappy
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Many do.
Sorry.... I didn't mean to come off so defensive. You did say many.. We sell both full foam and thermo...
dpgtech,
I'm curious, Do you sell between the two brands or are you strickly in the service end of the business.
The reason I'm asking is, this seems to be the case of a spa store that can sell both types of insulation side by side without degrading the other. Very interesting!!!
Spahappy
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OH, so the thermopane companies are strictly manual labor, a guy with a foam gun taking his best shot?! ERRRRRRR wrong answer! More precision is nesessary in the thermopane spas so as not to over fill the cabinet and accidentaly becoming a full foam spa. None-the-less, both forms of insulation work just fine. If the customer likes the thermo idea, buy it, if they like the full foam idea buy that. If these start ups put zero insulation on the spa shell and only a 1-1/2 inch cut piece of styrofoam on the cabinet, then I would think it's a cost issue. Otherwise, spas cost very similar prices to produce.
And therein lies the answer to the original question?
It's easier to start up and build thermo because such a mechanized and computerized process is not necessary? Brutus just connects the thermo panels together??