Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: kluzo on June 12, 2004, 08:16:04 pm
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Can anyone give more insight on my final 2 choices ???. I have the cost of both to with in $100 of each other but I am having a hard time to decide which to go with. If :-/ANYONE :-/ can give more insight on the two manufactures in the way of quilaty please let me know.
Thanx Eh!
;D :) ::) ;) :D ;D
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From what I've learned both manufatureres are good choices.
Go with the one that wet tested better for you, if that doesn't/didn't sway you to one over the other, I'd say use the dealer as the deciding factor.
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Thats the hard part. They both wet tested very similar.
Hard Choice to pick. :P
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Sorry I should have added this:
Jacuzzi J-365 for Around 11G's (Canadian)Including GST & PST. This also includes:
- Delivery
- Set Up & ABC's about chemicals
- $200 Chemical start up
- 4" Centre to 2" edge cover
- Hydrolic Lift Cover
- Stairs/Steps into the Hot Tub.
Good Deal ???
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I did a lot of homework and was glad when my local beachcomber dealer matched a clearance price from another dealer an hour away.
Second to the local dealer's support, I have been in contact with the Beachcomber Tech Support staff numerous times for line drawings and electrical specs for pad and deck preparations. Help was provided readily without hesitation.
First impressions on the dealer and tech support side have reflected that Beachcomber is a world class organization.
OnMedic
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After stopping by the Beachcomber dealer again today and telling them my choice is thiers or a Jacuzzi the sales person simply said that I was compairing apples to oranges ??? The sales person went on to say that the "Jacuzzi" is a low end version of the Sundance. Am I comparing apples to apples or not ???
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Oh ya, I am comparing the Jacuzzi J 365 to the Beachcomber 740.
I plan on purchasing in the next 8-10 Days so this is coming down to cruch time.
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After stopping by the Beachcomber dealer again today and telling them my choice is thiers or a Jacuzzi the sales person simply said that I was compairing apples to oranges ??? The sales person went on to say that the "Jacuzzi" is a low end version of the Sundance. Am I comparing apples to apples or not ???
That statement from the dealer would have made my choice the jacuzzi. Negative sales tactics are a pet pieve of mine.
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Decide with your head and not your heart!
Ya it was a lousy way of sales tactic but I have heard a lot of good things about Beachcomber but Jacuzzi is kinda new in Canada so I was hoping to get better feedback from anyone willing to do so. Are these 2 (J-365 & 740) apples to apples?
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Klazo,
We also did like the Jacuzzi models, especially the styling of the molds. However, from what I understand, Jacuzzi is OEM by Sundance.
I would not take it as negative selling, but just pointing out the relationship between Sundance and Jacuzzi. Would you feel the sales rep was "negative selling" should he be warning you about a Golf Coast or Adventure, both of which have dismal track records?
OnMedic
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I already knew that Sundance was Jacuzzi however it was how she made Jacuzzi sound like I was buying one from Home Depot or something like that. It was a negative statement to put down her competition. Did she mean it to sound like that? I would have to say Yes.
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After several months of research and wet testing we have ordered the Jacuzzi J-385. We loved everything about it and for us it just felt right.
I would not worry too much about the posts from Wisoki. He advised that the wet end of the pumps were made by water way. We looked into it and are satisfied that this is not true. Here is the response I received from Jacuzzi Premium regarding one of my inquiries.
"Dear Consumer,
Thank you for contacting Jacuzzi Premium. The pumps made for Jacuzzi Premium and Sundance because we are a part of the same family are both made by Jacuzzi and are jacuzzi pumps. They are not made by water way & that information is not correct.
Thank you"
People say different things for different reasons. Regardless, we had narrowed the search down to Beachcomber, Hot Springs, Sundance, and Jacuzzi Premium, and we are very happy with our decision to go with Jacuzzi.
Both are great products so you will not go wrong with either. I have been reading these posts for several months now and I have always found Steve's post to be accurate and informative. If you can find a dealer like him that sells one of the top brands (that wet tested well for your needs), things should be good.
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I would not worry too much about the posts from Wisoki. He advised that the wet end of the pumps were made by water way. We looked into it and are satisfied that this is not true.
I have been around these forums for a couple of years and I have never seen Frank (Wisoki) post bad information or lie for any reason. I can't explain the letter you received from Jacuzzi but obviously someone is wrong somewhere. ???
Thanks Canuck for your kind words. It's a compliment that means a great deal to me.
Steve
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I have wet tested both spas and found that they are both really good tubs. The Jacuzzi tub I found lacked water pressure in the jets, Beachcomber had more powerfull jet action. As for comfort, both spas were really nice. I ended up getting the beachcomber and have had it for over a year now. I have had some problems with beachcomber though, the jets keep popping off and getting replaced and the cover started to bubble and still waiting for someone to take alook at it before they can replace it. So if I were you knowing what i know now, I would say get the Jacuzzi.
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So you're throwing in the towel on Beachcomber because a couple of jets came out and the cover blistered? ??? :-/
Both are warranty issues and can be fixed easily.
First off, Waterways (who makes the jets) went through a period of time where their jet bodies on some of their jets were undersized and weren't staying in place. Bring in any of those jets to your dealer and they will replace them with the new ones. This issue was resolved months ago and it's no questions asked. Not a big deal.
As for the cover, the supplier for the underside of our heat shields had a poor batch that delaminated. Again, a phone call to your dealer should rectify this and they will order you a new skin free of charge. Just unzip your cover and remove the foam inserts. Slide them into your new skin and taadaa, you have a new cover.
This issue is well known to Beachcomber and we alone have replaced over 20 skins. Some of these were out of the warranty time but we looked after those as well. If you're not getting any service from your dealer, contact Beachcomber at 1-800-663-6557 and let them know your troubles.
Nothing to freak out about as Beachcomber will look after this and it's an easy fix. Nothing in this world is perfect my friend and suggesting another product because of these 2 minor incidences is a little dramatic. Sheeesh.... ???
Steve
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The jets have been popping off ever since i've owned the tub, they are still popping off and i've even had the plastic seals replaced. as for the cover they wanted me to take a picture of it and bring it in to them to see it first before they order me a new cover. I told them I didn't have a digital camera, so they said they would come out and take a look at it. Well its been about 3 weeks now and still no one has come out to see the cover...
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I'd probably call them back.
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I have, I've been going in there every week when I get my water tested, and I get told the same thing. We will be down sometime this week....
hmmm thats one hell of a long week!
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Then you should be calling the main office and telling them your dealer is not servicing you and you want someone to help you resolve the issue.
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As far as manufacturing goes, Jacuzzi has the advantage because they have ISO9000 Certification. I used to sell Beachcomber and I think it is a great product as well. If the Beachcomber dealer is telling you that the Jacuzzi product is a low end tub, they are dead wrong and are probably worried about losing your business. Is the Jacuzzi dealer putting down the Beachcomber tub as a Home Depot, low end product? TEST SOAK before buying and if the dealer is making you feel uncomfortable then perhaps that is also something that should enter into your decision.
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As far as manufacturing goes, Jacuzzi has the advantage because they have ISO9000 Certification.
That's right... and I'm sure that means that there is never any problems. ??? yeahhhh
I don't think anyone is selling a spa and telling their customers that it will be trouble free forever. Well... maybe Jordy... ;) cause it has ISO9000 certification ya know. ;D
So, can we all conclude Jordy that what your saying is that if you purchase a spa with this certification, problems are eliminated? You might want to be more specific with your last post.
Can you tell me why Jacuzzi needs a warranty then? It sounds like it should never need any repairs. ???
Not that it matters.... Kluzo alreay purchased a Beachcomber! And with no ISO certification with it either. :o Whoda thunk it ;D ?
Steve
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ISO 9000 means only that the spas are all manufactured the same way. It does NOT mean that they are manufactured correctly. It is just a marketing tool.
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It is not just a marketing tool, it is a sales tool. This ISO stuff started out in Europe and I have looked into this for my own company. The only thing I could see is money grab all over it. My company is not ISO certified and never will be and it has not affected my sales one bit. The program is a great thing for lager companies like Jacuzzi because they are involved in more then just Hot Tubs were as Beachcomber (as far as I can tell) only manufacter one product..... Yup... Hot Tubs.
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Hey Steve, as you know, ISO9000 Certification is certainly not a guarantee that you will never have any problems, but it does ensure for the consumer that there is a certain standard and consistency w/respect to manufacturing the final product. This, I think is a good thing for consumers. As you and I both know, ISO9000 at least shows consumers that the manufacturer is being held to some sort of standard. I think that is a good thing, don't you agree? It is also a feature that counters the "High Quality" claims that are made by some companies that have very low provable quality controls in their manufacturing processes, to the detriment of consumers.
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I agree 100% Jordy that any regulations that prevent problems are important. I do believe however that every major manufacturer has these in place regardless of this certification.
As an example, we run all of our spas 3 times prior to leaving the factory to prevent nuisance issues on start-up. There's nothing worse is there?
ISO 9001:2000, the requirement standard, includes the following main sections:
Quality Management System
Management Responsibility
Resource Management
Product Realization
Measurement Analysis and Improvement
What does it mean to me?
In order to use ISO 9000 to the fullest in helping you to manage your organization's processes there are a number of steps to take:
first you need to define what you do and how your organization goes about its business,
then capture this in a documented system,
and you have to do what you say you do,
then make sure you do it effectively,
and lastly demonstrate this to your stakeholders through registration.
I believe ANY watchdog process is a good thing and can only benefit our customers but to suggest that a spa with this certification is the answer to all problems, was a little tough to swallow. Your quote was"As far as manufacturing goes, Jacuzzi has the advantage because they have ISO9000 Certification."
Does this mean that your standards are superior than others laid out by the individual manufacturers? That's debatable until we all know exactly what systems are in place, right? I'm not knocking it because I don't know all there is to know but by the same token, if you don't understand our process, I suggest you find out before assuming one set of standards is far better than another, right? Just some thoughts..
For some clarity Jordy, this minor problem with the Waterways jets wasn't realized until they had some amount of time in the field and under usage conditions for a period of time.
This wasn't something missed at the factory level. I want to make sure you are very clear on that.
Beachcomber and Waterways did a great job in correcting this problem and that's what makes a quality company. It's not about selling a product that has certifications or claims that it will need fewer repairs because of it, but rather how a company deals with problems once they do occur. A sign of a company dedicated to their customers and Beachcomber is all about that!
Steve
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Hey Steve... Couldn't agree with you more on your last post. As I've mentioned previously, I have sold Beachcomber in the past and believe it to be a quality product backed by a great organization. Having said that, I think that you'd agree that there are companies in the marketplace that don't take the same degree of care in their manufacturing process as Beachcomber does and it's very difficult for consumers to tell the difference. That's why I think that having some sort of designation with respect to manufacturing standards is helpful to consumers when they are considering purchasing a hot tub.
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Having an ISO standard does show that a manufacturing company is following specified guidelines. NOT having a standard in place does not mean a company is running haphazardly. In reality, not having the standard in place gives you no sign, good or bad, about how the plant is run. I'd certainly prefer to see it in place if I'm a consumer looking to purchase but I wouldn't discount another spa maker for not having it. Maybe it would be the tiebreaker if I were torn on a decision of what to buy.