Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Bluetobb on March 06, 2014, 08:35:05 am
-
Quick intro. My name is Dan. My wife has always wanted a hot tub, we seek them out on vacations. I started poking around over the last week. I have read many posts here. We were thinking of spending 3 to 5k. In the last week my view has been spun 180 degrees. Things I learned.
- There is $1500 to $2000 extra cost.
-Sand and portable pad
-electrical (I live in DC I think I want 220)
-movers if used
-cover
-Anything that then fits in our budget is not quality and will give those results and probably will not last.
So I have begun to watch the used market to get a better picture of it. I have found a couple interesting Craigslist postings but they seem to miss all the details and no one gets back to me. I would like some feedback on what you think these are.
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/4362022986.html Is this a HS Limelight Pulse? Any idea what year that is? Is that a fair price? This one would also come with a cover.
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/hsh/4355530909.html I think this is an HS but not sure. It looks 10ish years old. Any feedback? None of these people get back to me. I am more trying to understand the scene that ready to purchase.
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/for/4359296950.html Then there is the bottom of the market. I am handy but is something like this even worth it? Any idea of make, model and age?
Any other feedback or tips are greatly appreciated. I have read many of the top posts already.
Thanks
dan
-
Ok, I'm only repeating what my salesperson told me but any warranties doesn't transfer so you could pay 3k and get a lemon. That alone should be a HUGE discouragement. Of course to confirm you can call Hot Springs.
The big thing about Warranties is that the parts are extremely expensive because they are proprietary. A motor, a leak, etc can run you the cost of the tub. I'd rather buy a 110 blowup tub than investing 3k in something that's off of craigslist.
-
I thought replacement parts were reasonably priced? The heater and the pack I thought you could go generic if it broke? The pumps were fairly standard? The Jets I thought were 50 to 100 for something being broken? When it comes to electronics it could get pricey maybe?
-
That pulse at that price is a steal....Its a 12K tub new and that model is very nice. I have no idea why someone would dump it at that price. Strange that they have it so over full in the pics tho. I wouldn't be afraid of the pulse...Not sure what the middle unit is but looks decent and that last one stay far away from IMHO. The warranty is only good to the original purchaser be aware. But your so far ahead of the game if you can get that pulse at that price.
-
First is a Limelight, second is a D1, third is an older Tiger River. That's all you can get out of those pics along with the fact that they looked to be working when the picture was taken which could have been yesterday or 5 years ago. All are well known brands but condition is just as important as price and condition doesn't just mean how pretty it is. Buying used can be a good deal if the price is right AND the spa can be viewed in full operation (its dry around it, up to temp and you can turn the jets on/off). They'll surely have a cover but it could be anywhere from fairly new to falling apart so take note and expect closer to the latter unless you get lucky. Look around for who might deliver used spas and get a quote if this is not something you are comfortable doing. In the end ad all that up and compare it to buying new. Sometimes you find gems on Craigslist if you can weed through the majority which are often not so hot.
-
Deals can be found on used hot tubs, but it takes some searching, there is also junk out there, and scammers to be ware of. I bought my first hot tub off an ebay add a month or so ago for $1,000, it is a small Hot Spring Jetsetter (advertised as 3 person, but really more like 1 or 2). The seller was an electrician that had bought it from a home owner who wanted it removed, he bought it with the intention of using it himself, but it sat in storage instead and he eventually decided to sell it. Mine turned out to be older than advertised, it is a 1998 model, the seller thought it was about a 2009 model, but was not sure, overall it is in great shape for its age with VERY little use as it still had 1998 date code filters installed when I bought it. This is a somewhat understandable mistake as this version of the Jetsetter was built from 1998 - 2008 with few changes. Overall I have been happy with it, total cost in it is right around $1,600 at this point, this includes cost of driving 100 miles to pick up, wiring as it was missing its cord and GFCI plug (it is 120V 20 Amp, and I already had an outlet and concrete slab near where the top was going). I also had to replace the circulation pump ($170), it ran but made noise and stopped working after about 24 hours, also I replaced the Ozonator simply due to age for about $100. There are youtube videos that show you step by step how to do these basic maintenance items if you are a somewhat hand DIY type. A couple ot other minor points have came up adding about another $60 in parts to be replaced, a couple of $10 spinner /directional jets that would not spin, and and a dirverter valve rebuild kit (O rings were brittle and water leaked out around the handle), all together these probably took 10 minutes to swap out.
After buying my tub before getting it up and running which took a couple of weeks due to the weather, I ended up spotting a number of deals online as I still had me hot tub search going in case mine turned out to be a paper weight or worse. All were more expensive than my tub, but arguably as nice or nicer, depending on your needs. This included a 1997 HS Sovergn for $1,200, very similar to mine, but one size larger, a 2005 HS Sovergn with some weathering also for $1,200, a 2008 HS Grande that spent its life under a canopy for $6,000 and most recently a 2013 Hot Spring Jetsetter for $3,000 (new price $6,500) just 20 miles away, this one sold within 4 days of being listed.
For online searching I would suggest looking at as many sources as possible, not just craigslist which around here seems dominated with dealer ads, also remeber to check out ebay, oodle, and some of the lesser, but sometimes regionally popular online sites like bookoo, etc. Lastly don't discount used refurbs from dealers, these sometimes come with warranty coverage through the dealer.
-
Thanks for all the feedback. The only to respond back was the $400 one and I am not really interested in it. If the pulse would have felt really good I may have moved my plans up but still no response.
-
Thanks for all the feedback. The only to respond back was the $400 one and I am not really interested in it. If the pulse would have felt really good I may have moved my plans up but still no response.
To each his own but what if it runs great and only needs to be sanded and restained to look good again? I wouldn't necessarily dismiss anything based on the year (age is relevant in hot tubs) just as you should never jump on one just because its fairly new.
-
I thought replacement parts were reasonably priced? The heater and the pack I thought you could go generic if it broke? The pumps were fairly standard? The Jets I thought were 50 to 100 for something being broken? When it comes to electronics it could get pricey maybe?
Anyone can fix a spa , you can watch youtube video to change a seal etc. The job of salesman is to scare you that way they can sell you a new one. Jets cost between 20-40 $ , pump cost between 250-350 $ , pack cost between 300-450 $ , the only thing I would worry about is the shell condition , many custumers got ripped off buying leaking shell whithout knowing it .
Electrical cost :
Gfci = 100 $
Wiring = 4 $ / feet
Electrician = 100 $ / hours ( normally take 2 hours but budget 3 )
Spa mover = 350 $ when its local
road crush pad = 400 $
cement pad = 600-800 $
-
Bluetobb,
Are you a DIY kind of guy?
If you are, a good used tub will save you some bucks.
If not, I'd suggest that you spend the additional money and get yourself a new tub.
-
Also if your shopping for a used tub, give it some time, check the listing multiple times per day, and be prepared to jump if a good deal shows up, but take a few minutes at least to reserach the brand or stick with known major top line companies, as well as inspect the tub before paying, preferably with water in it and running, unless it is a great price.
Ike
-
I love DYI. I know I could run the electrical and I would have 3 years ago. Now I have a 3.5 and 2 yr old running my life. So $200 in electrician cost is pretty reasonable. So the most important thing is the shell... Check leaks, heat and pump. But shell is the one unfixable? That's what I am gathering.
Should I do the pad now in prep or is there to much variance in sizes? Right now for me to jump I would need a HS. If I had my pad in and electrical in I might start thinking about going with the first decent deal.
Again thanks,
So I have to ask the loaded question. What are good brands? I know Jacuzzi and Hot Springs. Just top 5 no rank. There is a lot of no name junk out there, also lower quality stuff. I was into Costco but all the forums lead me to quality not big box.
-
I love DYI. I know I could run the electrical and I would have 3 years ago. Now I have a 3.5 and 2 yr old running my life. So $200 in electrician cost is pretty reasonable. So the most important thing is the shell... Check leaks, heat and pump. But shell is the one unfixable? That's what I am gathering.
Should I do the pad now in prep or is there to much variance in sizes? Right now for me to jump I would need a HS. If I had my pad in and electrical in I might start thinking about going with the first decent deal.
Again thanks,
So I have to ask the loaded question. What are good brands? I know Jacuzzi and Hot Springs. Just top 5 no rank. There is a lot of no name junk out there, also lower quality stuff. I was into Costco but all the forums lead me to quality not big box.
I would get an electrical quote before deciding what to do...I have a great electrician who does the majority of our spa "hookups" and average cost is $500-$800....that $200 is not even close to a realistic number if your factoring in time and materials from a licensed electrician
-
Each electrical install is different and rates for work vary considerably from location to location. Having said that if you you plan on going ahead with the prep I would only take it as far as a 50 amp line with neutral ran from the main breaker panel to an empty box near, but greater than I think 6 ft from the intended location of the hot tub as the exact breaker configuration needed after this point will depend on the tub you get. Some Hot Spring's tubs for example require both a 2 pole 30 amp 240V GFCI breaker and a 1 pole 20 amp 120V breaker to be mounted in the box near the tub, there is also an NEC requirement for a 120V GFCI outlet to be near the tub (I forget the exact number of feet, but think it is not less than 6 but not over 10). Other brands I think just require a 50 amp 240V 2 pole.
As to pad size All but the very largest tubs have a footprint less than 8'6" x 8'6" with a size of 7x7 to 8x8 being the most common, even my little "3" person Hot Spring Jetsetter has a footprint of 5'2" x 6'10" (the newer Jetsetters are even larger footprint at 5'5" x 7'0") so you can see not a lot of pad work separates a small "3 person" Jetsetter from a 7'7" x 8'4" 7 seat Grande
Ike
-
To take it a step even further.....Some HS models (Including the advertised Pulse) require a 230V 30 amp 2 pole GFCI and a 230V 20 amp 2 pole GFCI.....And then we have the Gleam that can run a 70Amp system...one 30 amp and two 20 amp two pole GFCI breakers. I would agree that the electrical quote is low but the sub panels are given with HS products at time of purchase and at least they could allow you to have the subpanel with the whip attached with your purchase. That should help a bunch as the GFCI two pole breakers get a bit spendy!
-
I don't know of an electrician that would even start the engine in his truck for only $200.00 :-)
-
Thanks for opening my eyes to the electrical. I thought running a 50 amp 240 would be sufficient for any hot tub I would buy. Sounds like I should wait and find out what I am buying first. Easier to run 2 or 3 wires together than 1 then another and then another haha.
I think now I wait and watch. Start to put together a pad and get my local hot tub codes figured out.
I will be throwing up links now and again for opinions. I appreciate all the great knowledge and advice!
Dan
-
So My wife wants me to ask. Why not Costco? http://www.costco.com/Divine-Hot-Tubs%E2%84%A2-DL-1040-Deluxe-2014-115-jet%2c-7-person-Spa.product.100104585.html
Her reasoning is if we go used then I am committing to doing upkeep and maintenance. Which she knows I am capable of. Then what are you getting out of an older used main name brand that you are not getting from a new Costco hot tub?
I hate when my wife uses logic!
Dan
-
So My wife wants me to ask. Why not Costco? http://www.costco.com/Divine-Hot-Tubs%E2%84%A2-DL-1040-Deluxe-2014-115-jet%2c-7-person-Spa.product.100104585.html
Her reasoning is if we go used then I am committing to doing upkeep and maintenance. Which she knows I am capable of. Then what are you getting out of an older used main name brand that you are not getting from a new Costco hot tub?
I hate when my wife uses logic!
Dan
Take a garden hose out and put it on your back. If that pressure is sufficient to you then by all means buy that tub. That tub has 115 jets but many are the tiny not much flow jets. I would never buy that tub without being able to try it first
-
Plus that things 7k, you can get a much better tub for that price
-
The Divine is new to me , I have checked out their website and it look fine to me . On some pictures , theres a chinesse topside controller and on other its a balboa , I would make sure you get the balboa one . This one come with 3 single horse 5hp pumps and 1 circ pump , assuming they provide a 4 or 5.5 kw heater , you would need a 60 amp breaker instead of 50 amp like they advertise. Despite this tub offer 115 jets , they look randomly inserted and compacted on 3 seats. It does not include any audio or any water sanitation system other than the ozone wich is standard .
Considering that this company doesnt have any background and that most of the manufacturer doing business with Costco go bankrupt , considering that its a curbside delivery meaning that you will have to spend an extra 200 $ to bring it into your backyard , No cover lifter wich you will probably need , the 6999 $ price seems expensive to me .. at 5999 $ that would be a deal . I would look for a local dealer if you have the budget or look at a company that have a good reputation that sell online .
-
Thank you for the insightful feedback. Point well taken and I can't wait to share it with my wife.
I hate the idea of going to a dealer. I am envisioning buying a car and I hate car dealers. But I think I need to go to get an idea what each brand is. I still think I am leaning used. I think I just have to be patient and be ready to pounce.
-
If it makes you feel any better I just went through the wet test tour last month. We met with 7 different dealers, and didn't have and bad experiences. No pressure at all.
-
The Divine is new to me , I have checked out their website and it look fine to me . On some pictures , theres a chinesse topside controller and on other its a balboa , I would make sure you get the balboa one . This one come with 3 single horse 5hp pumps and 1 circ pump , assuming they provide a 4 or 5.5 kw heater , you would need a 60 amp breaker instead of 50 amp like they advertise. Despite this tub offer 115 jets , they look randomly inserted and compacted on 3 seats. It does not include any audio or any water sanitation system other than the ozone wich is standard .
Considering that this company doesnt have any background and that most of the manufacturer doing business with Costco go bankrupt , considering that its a curbside delivery meaning that you will have to spend an extra 200 $ to bring it into your backyard , No cover lifter wich you will probably need , the 6999 $ price seems expensive to me .. at 5999 $ that would be a deal . I would look for a local dealer if you have the budget or look at a company that have a good reputation that sell online .
Fyi, the company that makes that tub is Clearwater Spas and they have been around since 1976. That's a pretty long "background". I'm not saying that it's a good tub. It certainly isn't as good as their full line. But they have been around for awhile. They had to cut a lot of corners to get that tub in that price range.
-
why would they use chiness pack ? why does it look like a whirlpool jets configuration ?
-
If it makes you feel any better I just went through the wet test tour last month. We met with 7 different dealers, and didn't have and bad experiences. No pressure at all.
I would love to be able to do something like that! Did you purchase? What kind? What price range? Just doing my research.
-
We put money down on a Caldera Martinique. When I talked to the dealer over the phone he quoted me at 7k, but after the wet test he dropped the price to $6,300. Can't wait to get it delivered! In fact I'm going outside after this and I'm going to clean the patio of it's snow and see if we can't quicken the process. Got one electrician quote at $1,300, but he will drop the price if he can go through my lower level rather than around the outside of my house. Got to get from one corner of the house to the other...
-
So some things have developed. The guy with the HS Limelight Pulse for $2800 (The link above is expired and the age of the tub is unknown) actually got back to me. He wont be back in town until Monday so I have some time to compose my thoughts and what I want to offer. I got an over the phone electrical quote at $600 to $1100. I am guessing it would be higher than that with one of those special HS pulse two circuit 240 boxes (They run 300 to 400).
Some questions:
Where on the unit will I find the model year or manufacturing date?
Pulse is new since 2010 correct? So it could not be older than 4 years?
I was thinking of making a firm offer for $2500 with the sub panel or $2100 without it. Is that a fair price?
Also it looks like the movers which charge $350 to $450. They also do inspections. Would it be prudent to pay them $130 to come inspect the tub when I go and view it? Will they add any value or just check for wetness below, comes up to temp and jets work? (The moving company is also a spa maintenance service as well)
Here is the kicker for me. I think we are going to have a paver patio put in. This will not be ready for month maybe more. Is this deal good enough to move it to our house and make it sit and wait and possible pay movers again? And last question, could I get 5 or 6 friends and move this 10 feet onto the built pad or would I really need to get professional movers to move it to its final resting place?
P.S. The D1 I listed in my opening post never responded to me but now they have reposted. Either they are clueless or a weird scammer.
Thanks all for the great feedback and knowledge!
Dan
-
So some things have developed. The guy with the HS Limelight Pulse actually got back to me. He wont be back in town until Monday so I have some time to compose my thoughts and what I want to offer. I got an over the phone electrical quote at $600 to $1100. I am guessing it would be higher than that with one of those special HS pulse two circuit 240 boxes (They run 300 to 400). The post is actually expired but It was unknown age for $2800.
Some questions:
Where on the unit will I find the model year or manufacturing date?
Pulse is new since 2010 correct? So it could not be older than 4 years?
I was thinking of making a firm offer for $2500 with the sub panel or $2100 without it. Is that a fair price?
Also it looks like the movers which charge $350 to $450. They also do inspections. Would it be prudent to pay them $130 to come inspect the tub when I go and view it? Will they add any value or just check for wetness below, comes up to temp and jets work? (The moving company is also a spa maintenance service as well)
Here is the kicker for me. I think we are going to have a paver patio put in. This will not be ready for month maybe more. Is this deal good enough to move it to our house and make it sit and wait and possible pay movers again? And last question, could I get 5 or 6 friends and move this 10 feet onto the built pad or would I really need to get professional movers to move it to its final resting place?
P.S. The D1 I listed in my opening post never responded to me but now they have reposted. Either they are clueless or a weird scammer.
Thanks all for the great feedback and knowledge!
Dan
you'll need to remove the front access panel (door) and you see a manufacturing label with a serial number which will identify the model and year using number/letters Pulse should start with PLS I believe.
Also the Pulse started in 2008....having a tech give it a once over might not be a bad idea just as an added piece of mind.
-
I would not worry much about the year since this model was introduced in 2008 and there have been few if any changes to the HS lineup since 2008 or maybe 2008.5 . Note the year is not listed in plain english inside the panel, but is coded, there are web sites that will decode for you or list the letter to year conversion code. The part finder at backyardplus is the only one I know of off hand, but there are others. As to fair price I would say it is in the right ballpark to be fair, since this is one of HS's mid line products. As to moving it a few feet with the help of a few friends that should not be a problem, but I would have the movers leave it on sections of pipe so you can easily roll it. My college age son and I unloaded my Jetsetter off a trailer and moved it into place mostly by hand (One place moving it across the grass part of the yard from the driveway we took the easy route and borrowed a tractor with a front end loader and a cargo net.) rolling it on pipes is fairly easy, of course my Jetsetter only weighed about 470 pounds, which is half of the weight of the Pulse.
p.s. you may wish to review some youtube videos of people moving hot tubs, although you should probably ignore the ones where people drop them from cranes.
-
Thank you for the feedback. Having it off loaded on pipes is awesome idea! That makes it pretty movable anywhere as long as it starts on the pipes.
Still just not sure if I am jumping the gun to fast at a solid deal not a great deal. Not that I need a great deal but doing it out of order is a slight pain.
Oh and the D1 lady got back to my wife this time around haha. She still can give no details maybe that is why she is not responding. Would the older D1 be at all comparable to the Pulse in build?
-
D1 also has a good reputation for high build quality, maybe more so with the older ones before they were bought out. Either way I would consider current condition as much more important that initial build quality. A tub that has spend its life indoors will tend to look much better than one that was outdoors, and one that was in a sheltered location outdoors will look better than one that was not sheltered, etc.
-
I like the look of this approach (they show a shed but would work well for a hut tub I think). For the pipes I was thinking that metal fence posts would work well. Comments?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EaAAXV8WuU
-
I owned a tub for 4 and 1/2 years I tell you what I wish someone told me.
Pay $3000. at sams club or home depo they are just as good as the big names,and if they break in 5 years you can buy a new with money left over.
I spent $7600. for a Watkins Hotspot Lapalma
Its 4 and 1/2 years old now ,and I went though 4 two speed pumps and 2 pressure switches. After that poor 2 year warranty no one will answer the phone. The cost to replace a motor was $700. plus install.
So, I would skip Hot spot,aka hot springs, Watkins
-
Disappointed,
Sorry about your problems with your Hotspot.
The $700 for your replacement motor is pretty high.
Why not pick up something from Spa Depot or some other on-line Spa parts supplier?
That's what I did with my old Coleman and the motor cost no where near $700. It was really easy to install, as well.
When a warranty period is over, I wouldn't expect the MFG to "pick up the phone".
Good luck on fixing up your tub.