Where are you located in nebraska.I live in Bellevue, NE. I would love to talk with a Hot Springs dealer that I cannot deal with send me a personal message. I have three questions for you if you have a few minutes to spare.
Arctic will sell to you factory direct if you don't have a local dealer, I am not sure how close they consider local to be though. I looked at them before buying my used Jetsetter a couple of months ago, and qualitfied for direct sale as the nearest dealer was hundreds of miles away. At the time the prices started around $5,000 for their smaller tubs, not sure if that was delivered or FOB. They claimed it was at dealer pricing, and was about 20% off MSRP, but I suspect while this may be dealer price, I suspect real dealers get other discounts, kickbacks, rebates, etc. I think there was also some option of getting cosmetic blemished tubs for another 3% off, which seems like a little too close to full price for my tastes.
Ike
Thanks Isaac, I just got a quote from a Artic factory direct dealer and the Bare Essential line (I figured their lower end) was still beyond where I need to be.
Hottubguy, I understand that dealers want/need to make money. Everyone I have talked to, I have explained that I understand that they are there to sell and they have to make some money on. I do understand how a "Business" works. What I do not agree with are the extremely overrated mark-ups on the MSRP. There is no real way for a buyer like me to understand how much a tub is actually worth. That is why I am here is to educate myself and hopefully others but not get laughed at or insult someone's worth by lowballing a price. That is why I said they should make a few dollars of the initial, knowing that good customer service and honesty will bring repeat business, word of mouth, trustworthiness, and I will be more likely to go back there for supplies instead of ordering online. Building a long term relationship vs the "Hit it and Quit it" or get as much as you can on the first round, like some of the dealers I have met. I am not the only one that sees this. One post I read here, someone asked an opinion about a tub and another person asked if it was lined in gold! That is why so many people here ask these questions. At least with automobiles you have the availability to look up the Kelly Blue Book (or equivalent) value to see and compare too. I have looked and looked but have not found a source that racks and stacks tubs and gives price comparisons or even a high-low range.
I have a max I am willing to pay and I know what I want. As I stated previously, I may just be better off waiting for what I want instead of settling or until I find the right pre-owned. It just sucks that I have nothing to compare to, to know if I am getting a "good" deal or "suckered".
Dealers don't get kickbacks, rebates or any other discount. We all pretty much pay the same for which ever product we are selling. The only difference is the shipping
Dealers don't get kickbacks, rebates or any other discount. We all pretty much pay the same for which ever product we are selling. The only difference is the shipping
If dealers are paying 80% of MSRP I don't see how anyone makes it in the businesus with relatively low sales volume and high overhead
Artic will be more expensive unless you go with the coyote range . If the marquis 545 retail between I would definately pass on it lol. Jacuzzi j-235 for les than 5500$ would be an option . You can ask Jacuzzi Jim how much he retail it for .I was quoted a little over $7K for and Artic Bear Essential line Midnight Sun with 30 jets and 2 pumps. One problem is it would be factory direct since we do not have a dealer here. Sight unseen...
cheers
It's a great tub. That tub has been by far my best seller of 2014 and was my 2nd best seller of 2013. It's a much better tub then the 200 series jacuzzi or the hot spot line. It's very well constructed and uses the same pumps as the signature line. What options come with it at that price?Even though I maybe falling into the Hot Tub trap and having to re-access my budget a little. I still cannot justify that kind of money for a luxury item right now. I was told right around $7500 for me to order a 545. I do not think any other options were included in that price. The only way I was considering it was I really liked it! but I had to walk away and think on it. That is $2K more than the Hot Spot I have been looking at. Should I look into the Jacuzzi? Is there a place to look true and fair ratings. I am not looking for bells an whistles. I just want an energy efficient warm water tub with bubbles that is comfortable/35" deep (I'm tall) not going to break on me right away or the day after the warranty runs out. I am not difficult, just picky and I hate to let go of the money I work hard for. :-\
I wouldn't let having a circ pump or not having one sway me in my buying decision. They work good but are usually the first thing that goes on a tub. If you buy a tub with a shorter warranty I would always skip that. Any reputable brand should be able to maintain water clarity with proper filtration with or without a circ pump. What particular questions do you have about lazy boy?I would almost always agree with this but some times not as example to where the tub is located...If I had it on the patio just outside my bedroom window or my newborn children's room I certainly wouldn't want to listen to the main pump kick on and off to cycle and clean when it needed to....It also needs to run anytime the tub requires to be heated. That's something that is often overlooked and all my personal earlier tubs I've owned did not have circ pumps but all the later Jacuzzi's and Sundance and both my High Life Hot Spring tubs have small Circulation pumps and I do like that I never have to listen to my tubs cycle on and off. I like the water movement/filtering 24/7 personally. It's arguable as to if its actually more efficient with a small Circulation pump but I believe it is.
what would be the negative aspect of a circ pump?Some told me that it is a pump that runs 24/7 , burns out quicker, has to work harder to keep tub warm making heater work more. Again I just try to take in all the comments which usually ends up flushing out the BS. So what I have come up with is it would be a nice thing to have but it is not a make or break item of concern.
Ok, I am on my rant again. I promise this will come to an end soon.
These are what my current options are. Please feel free to give feedback, Rack and Stack, send personal messages, call me ignorant (for lack of knowing) and consider price range. ( I am only putting price within +/- average. I feel as I am getting rapped by some of these dealers and some I legitimately offering me a good price but more than I can go for. But I may bite the bullet and go a little over planned to get a quality product. My reasoning for these models are; size and depth (tall guy) / seating arrangement / 2 pump system / warranty / affordability / availability and dealership relationship.
These are not in any certain order.
La-Z-Boy Relieve - aprox $7000 - still working price, very comfortable and great looking warranty - http://www.lazboyspas.com/lazboy-spas-hot-tubs-signature-collection/relieve/
Marquis E545 - aprox $7400 - still working price, great dealer, seat sits a little straight up would like a little more recline other than that it is Perfect. http://www.marquisspas.com/hot_tub/models/545.asp
Celebrity Hollywood model - $5900 - Marquis dealer said almost same as E545 if I needed to cut cost. Same shell. http://www.celebrityhottubs.com/hollywood-hot-tub.asp
Clarity Spa (Master Spa) CLS738L - $5600 - Nice. Is it worth it? I like it but some have said beware. ??? Closest to budget. http://www.clarityspas.com/cls738l.php
Hot Spot Relay - $5600 - for $450 more I an have an Ozanator installed. Sold as a Hot Spring, but it's not! Even dealer did not seem as enthused about its quality. http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/hotspot/relay
Last but not least,
Sundance 680 series Peyton - $5900 but not negotiated - Just found this one by accident in my travels on Saturday. http://www.sundancespas.com/680series/peyton/
Again no bashing but would like constructive criticism.
Thanks.
what would be the negative aspect of a circ pump?Some told me that it is a pump that runs 24/7 , burns out quicker, has to work harder to keep tub warm making heater work more. Again I just try to take in all the comments which usually ends up flushing out the BS. So what I have come up with is it would be a nice thing to have but it is not a make or break item of concern.
what would be the negative aspect of a circ pump?Some told me that it is a pump that runs 24/7 , burns out quicker, has to work harder to keep tub warm making heater work more. Again I just try to take in all the comments which usually ends up flushing out the BS. So what I have come up with is it would be a nice thing to have but it is not a make or break item of concern.
A circulation pump have a 40 gallon per minute flow rate , you normally have 400 gallons in your tub . If you dont have a circulation pump in your spa it does mean that you will have a 2 speed pump , first speed will do the filtration at 4 amp average . You can set your circulation pump to run 2,4,6,8,12 or even 24 hours a day if you want , we do recommend 8 hours of filtration a day while other member over here would suggest 4 hours .
Your heater wont be used more with a circ pump or a 2 speed pump , a 2 speed pump wont last longer than a circ pump if used on the same cycle ( same quality pump ) .
The facts are that a circ pump will cost less to run ( 1.5 amp compared to 4 amp ) , since its the pump you will use the most it will cost you less to replace it once it broke ( 150 $ compared to 350 $ ) and It will produce a lot less noise .
Why would someone say otherwise ? He was maybe selling cars 4 months ago and just jump in into the spa market .. or maybe he had to find something to say against it because the brand he sell doesnt offer it .
Why would a manufacturer not include a circ pump ? Some spa controller doesnt allow it and if you want to it enabled you must upgrade the pack and it cost more money to the manufacturer , you have to keep all those pumps in inventory. Some manufacturer just doesnt care if it cost you more money to run it or replace it .
That being said , When all those facts are showed to the custumers , the additional cost for the manufactuer is worth it because it give an additional value to the product .
Does the hot spot relay come with one (Circulation Pump)?
The Relay does not come with an Ozanator (or equivalent) like most other brands have standard. It is a $450 upgrade. This all makes my brain hurt.
I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm? I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway
I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm? I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway
I wouldn't agree with that. What kind of circ pump are you using that does 40 gpm as most I know of do between 6-15gpm? I have seen lots of people replacing those pumps quite often while most 2 speed spa pumps last over 8-10 years. I think circ pumps work fine but I wouldn't base my purchase on that. There are 2 different ways to achieve the same end result. Marquis are known to be one of the leaders in energy efficiency yet don't use a circ pump so that argument doesn't hold really hold up. If you set a marquis to run for 2 hours per day at 80 gpm then that's 9600 gallons whereas if you set a circ pump drawing 15 gpm for 8 hours then you get 7200 gallons. On low speed the mp-160 pump draws about 3 amps and you said your circ pump draws 1.5 amps so again I don't see any cost difference. A circ pump will be a little quieter but you can't really hear the marquis when they are in circulating mode anyway
I agree with all of this. I'll also add that most circ pumps are in a closed loop. The water that is in all of the rest of the plumbing stays in the plumbing and is not filtered or sanitized with the rest. You can see this phenomenon in action when you turn on the jets and cooler water comes out of the initial blast. This water then needs to be reheated, filtered and sanitized. Some tubs have a purge cycle that turns the jets on to solve this though. Again, don't let a circ pump be a deciding factor in your purchase. There are positives and negatives, but they work fine with or without when done properly.
No offense, but sometimes I read Ryan VSO's posts containing lots of partially correct information and cringe. I usually don't have time to reply to them. You say stuff with conviction, so it sounds good, but there are quite a few inaccuracies. Again, no offense buddy. Just putting that out there. I have given incorrect information before as well. Nobody is perfect.
Ryan I am not sure where your getting your numbers from, but looking at HotSpring tubs with circulation pumps, their current E5 circulaiton pump is rated at 6,000 gallons per day, which my math says is 4.16 gpm, they also claim that the E5 pump flows 20% more water than its predecessor. Which would tend to pump minimum flow somewhere under 4GPM.
The Hot Spring circulation pump is MOST DEFINATELY connected through the heater, I have replaced mine and the hose goes right from the circulation pump to the heater.
I think they work but aren't needed. The goal is to have a spa that is clean, sanitized and hot. Circ pumps work but so don't non circ pump tubs. I have sold both in the past but in my experience the first thing that usually needs to be replaced in a tub is the circ pump. So if you can have the same results without one then what is the need
Ryan I am not sure where your getting your numbers from, but looking at HotSpring tubs with circulation pumps, their current E5 circulaiton pump is rated at 6,000 gallons per day, which my math says is 4.16 gpm, they also claim that the E5 pump flows 20% more water than its predecessor. Which would tend to pump minimum flow somewhere under 4GPM.
this mean that the circulation pump is not connected through the heater . Balboa require 16 gpm if I remember and gecko need 20 gpm .
BTW your brain hurts because your over analyzing every small detail...
Happy Soaking!!!
Thanks Isaac, I just got a quote from a Artic factory direct dealer and the Bare Essential line (I figured their lower end) was still beyond where I need to be...
As for the Artic, there is no dealer here. My prices from that are "Factory Direct" prices then I would not have a dedicated local business to service my spa. That is why I discounted them.
First, I wanted to say thanks for all the help I have received here.
But the search is over!
I got a deal on a 2014 Hot Spring Hot Spot Relay that I could not refuse. Down payment has been made and as soon as I get the electrical hooked up and the foundation built, I will set a date for delivery.
Thanks again,
Sam
Between work and ongoing projects it is gonna be about a month before I can get it.
And by the way that little teaser SUCKS! Not even funny. I wish I had the extra 8grandto get that awesome cover over that one. So jealous of that Covana! For those of you that have not seen the video you gotta see this http://www.hotspringgreen.com/gazebos
I will post pictures wen its up.
Thanks again folks and by the way I met my initial new tub goal, well, close enough.
First, I wanted to say thanks for all the help I have received here.
But the search is over!
I got a deal on a 2014 Hot Spring Hot Spot Relay that I could not refuse. Down payment has been made and as soon as I get the electrical hooked up and the foundation built, I will set a date for delivery.
Thanks again,
Sam