Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: habs on February 13, 2014, 06:51:19 pm
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We have never owned a hot tub but are in the market....and of course everybody tells me theirs is the best..... I need some help..... I have been told that Hotspring is a good brand... also Thermo spas but I am worried with them not having a retail store in my area.... any help will be appreciated
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I would shop and shop and shop some more...You will eventually start realizing what is important to you for your personal needs...You will eventually also start realizing what company you would rather do business with and feel comfortable to help you if service is ever needed.
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are you from Montreal
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Thermospa has no retail stores.
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Not sure who told you Thermospas was a good brand but I would avoid them along with any other online retailer. Kick some tires (side panels) See what you like. There's nothing worse than buying something like a hot tub online and having to settle for mediocre or worse, crappy. All online retailers will tell you theirs is the best and is the most comfortable but how will YOU know? Use your own investigative skills don't rely on a sales pitch, online or otherwise.
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As a person that just bought their first hot tub last weekend (I ended up buying a used Hot Spring Jetsetter, at a price point of about 1/5 of new, it gave me the option of trying things out more before investing much money although not without some of the DIY troubles and a weekend worth of time spent picking it up and getting it in place), I can tell you the whole shopping experience is a lot like picking out the right car, or more like a person that has never driven a car, but has only ridden in a few and seen them at a distance trying to pick out and buy the right car.
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To Ryan VSO...... yes born and raised in Montreal but now living in USA............. Thank you for the info on Thermo spas that is why I am asking...... I have seen some info on this site about Bullfrog..... Is that a good brand? I have had the rep from HS come out and waiting to get a quote from him....I am not into all the bells (radio/TV etc.) and whistles just want a good tub..... I just want to have at least two quotes and I don't want to have an issue in a few years because I went cheap.... not that money grows on trees but if I spend a few more dollars for quality.... we are looking for a 5-6 person tub
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Go Habs go :P Bullfrog are very well built and will offer you peace of mind for many years . You might want to look at a used spa aswell but if your fine with spending 9-10 k on a tub theres plenty of good choice for you and you should only focus on 2 brands .
cheers ,
Ryan
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Hi Habs - We have a 2013 Bullfrog R6L. We got it up and running for a little over a month now and are very happy with it. We have had zero problems with the operation and water chemistry. With the last part I am experienced with keeping within the accepted levels for my water (also helps to keep and maintain healty fish aquariums)! I did look at several different spa brands before deciding on our Bullfrog. Looked at Hot Spring, Marquis (we own 2 Marquis spas previously), Sundance, D1, Arctic, and Jacuzzi. We also wet tested those that we could. That is something I highly recommend that you do is wet test - what may look good to you may be something totally different once you get the tub full of water with the jets on. What made us chose Bullfrog over others is that we liked that we could change out the jetpacks for different therapy especially if our therapy needs ever change, also Bullfrogs use less plumbing in the shell, warranty, also have all the jets run at the same time (didn't have to turn off 1 or a series of jets to get others to run).
As I said, look at different brands to get a feel of whats out there, different models, and most certainly wet test!
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We looked up Thermospas early in our shopping process. Has anyone seen the Thermospas infomercial dvd? Wow, horrible acting!!! I let them have my number before I knew what I was doing and they called every day for two weeks straight. I still get a call from them every once in a while two months later.
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Do not and I mean, do not buy a thermo spa. The commercial says it all. Be smart, look under the hood, ask questions, get to know the dealer, I have a hot springs, my neighbor down the road had a thermo spa, he had nothing but problems with it and their customer service was non existent. Some people like them, but i can tell you, I have heard a lot of negative press about that company, yes i believe it, due to their informercial, when purchasing a hot tub, you will need service, it will eventually break, you will need help with chemicals and supplies, ask yourself, do you really want to rely on the nice actor on TV, that is promising the world or do you want to call a local dealer , who wants your business and recommendations for new business, think about it.
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thank you everyone for your help..... there is a home show today in our town so my wife and I are going to go and see what we find out..... I will let you know what happens
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I suggest you hold back from making an uneducated impulse sales pitch/price buy...check em out...beat em up for pricing and learn some things...get a rain check if possible to keep some open options but do yourself a favor...buy name brand (a company you can trust to warranty) and buy from a local dealer for continued support in the future...plus you can buy your chemicals and answer all your questions face to face. This my opinion...I sell H'S and there are other good/great brands to choose from...but....I'll refrain from suggesting a or any brands as I'm not here to sell you. But do your part...research your manufacture choices. . I have personally owned many brands over the last 22 hot tubbing years and I can say this....it makes a difference to buy quality name brand. There may be decent online products but I have never owned those and if/when you need service/warranty...it might be a rough road. I once bought a Sundance Optima product...I had a need for service and both the local dealer and the manufacture were there to handle the issues promptly everytime...key word...PROMPTLY. But this an example of my name brand and local experience. ..take it as my personal recommendation.
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Some good advice here! As far as thermo spas even though they are owned by Jacuzzi I wouldn't buy one for the shear fact I cant feel it and touch it, not to mention the lack of a dealer like Dune mentioned. If you do find something you like at the home show, wait till the last day usually Sunday. Go in late in the day and make a offer below their price. Many times a dealer will say yes particularly on a floor mdl, it's about numbers so you can use that to your advantage if they know you are serious, if they don't budge don't be afraid to say well thanks anyway will make our decision later..
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I would like to say Thermospas is one of the best hot tubs made.
I would also like to say that the leprechaun living in my back yard gave me a pot of gold for a 6 pack of Samuel Adams.
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Thermospas is one of if not the worst hot tub in the market. The guy running the place is a complete joke. I know they have been bought by the company that makes jacuzzi but they left Andy tournas in charge. Big mistake in my mind. He is the major reason they filed for bankruptcy in the first place. If your looking for a junk tub with horrible customer service then thermo is the way to go
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Still have no clue as to why Jacuzzi bought them, or the group of investors anyway. They must have seen dollar signs there...
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Went to the home show and these are the brands I found.........."Clearwater spas" with a salt system the rep was very weak spoke about the salt system more than the tub.....I am not sure about a salt water system thought I read that it is hard on the pipes/joints, just not sure......... the next one was "Four Winds" and again the rep was weak could not answer what we thought were basic questions ......... the next one was "Life's Great spas" the reps were talking to other customers so we just took a brochure and moved on will do some research.... the next had Vita and Bullfrog both looked good and the rep was very knowledgeable, the one question we forgot to ask was why would you want to change out the Jetpack on the Bullfrog why not just change seats? Also he told me that an Ozone systems basically a waste of money they create a gas and also dry out all your head pieces and you have to replace them and the brands he reps do not have them on their systems. Is Sundance owned by Jacuzzi?.. If so does that mean they use different quality parts...The rep called me and wants to come over for a visual on our property.
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the one question we forgot to ask was why would you want to change out the Jetpack on the Bullfrog why not just change seats?
This is how I feel. Gimmicky.
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When I was still searching for a spa, I checked out the prices on their jetpacks to see what future costs might be.
Ouch....!
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My concern about the whole jetpack thing is that they offer them in so many colors that it completely kills any potential resell potential. So if you decide the $500 is not right for you anymore and want a different one there is little chance of either selling your used one or buying one from someone else through sites like ebay, etc. Instead you might be able to trade it in with the dealer who will mark it up again and sell it to someone else at a large fraction of the price of a new jetpack, etc.
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Dont they offer a 30 or 60 days trial ??
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the Bullfrog dealer today did not say anything about a 30-60 day trial............ Is that an option?????
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The Bullfrog dealer stated that he would sell a extra jetpack if we wanted one for $600 he would give us 3 months of chemicals and would charge us for a lifter
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$600. 00
That is a lot of money to most people.
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they should offer a return policy with those jetpack ... I mean we do offer a 60 money back guarantee on our spa and let the custumer try the jet configuration that come by default for 60 days aswell and if they want to switch jets we ask them to send us the old jets and replace them by new one at no charge . I would ask if they let you try those jetpack just to see if you like them and if not just return them back .
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You know, if I liked one jet pack more than another, I would use it for a while and just move to the better one.
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hey Rose any update on your tub ? should be on your pad verry soon !!
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I am leaning towards a Hot Spring tub..... I have not wet tested yet so that might change my mind.... but the retailer here is very good.... not a typical sales person.... says the tub will speak for itself
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I own a Bullfrog - going on two months and loving it. Why would you want to change out a jetpack? Let's say you have a favorite seat or let say you have a particular favorite view. I have 3 jetpacks and I have swapped out all three on my favorite seat, the lounger. I have two that are stronger and target specific spots and then one that is soothing. You can move your favorite jetpack to your favorite seat and/or to see your favorite view. Also I can change out jetpacks if my therapy needs change. Additional jetpacks would cost me $500 but at least I'm not stuck with the same. Don't know anything about a trial period. Also I heard that they are coming out with some new ones so that just opens up more options. For me it's nice option to have and something that I like compared to my previous spas. I get more of a variety with my Bullfrog. As for the colorls kind of a non-issue. They offer them in different colors to match the different shell colors they have available. You can also get different color packs - you do not need to stick to your shell color. Any pack I get I plan to keep.
Wet test as many as you can is my recommendation.
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hey Rose any update on your tub ? should be on your pad verry soon !!
Tub has been built and shipped to Spokane Washington. Not sure when it will ship from there. My driveway is badly iced, so I hope the tub comes later on in the week when it is supposed to warm up a bit. This will give the salt I put down a chance to work. We are parking our cars at the bottom of the driveway now, because of how icey it is. (We have a long gravel driveway that winds up a hill.)
Anyway, I am supposed to get a call a few days before it arrives. I'm hoping the timing works out.
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hehe yeah , keep us posted .
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The JetPak concept is about so much more than just moving massage to different seats, though as stated above that is nice. If the lounger is your favorite seat, you can have one of 16 different massages in that seat at any given time. From deep tissue, to light and soothing. From neck and shoulder, to lower back. From oscillating, to pulsating, to direct pressure.
With Jetpaks, there is just a 2" line around the bottom that feeds the jetpaks instead of a spaghetti monster of plumbing. The more plumbing, the more friction created as the water passes through it, hence less pressure. You can demonstrate this to yourself by pulling out a 75' garden hose with a bunch of kinks in it (i.e. plumbing elbows and manifolds). How much pressure comes out of the end of that hose? Now take a 10' hose without all of the kinks and compare the pressure. I assure you that there will be significantly more pressure out of the short hose with less elbows or kinks. This is also demonstrated in the fact that most hot tubs use diverter valves. You cannot get full pressure out of all of the seats at the same time, you use the valve to switch between different seats. In a Bullfrog, you get full pressure in every single seat simultaneously. Go to every hot tub store that you are interested in and ask the salesperson to show you every jet on at the same time in their wet model. Then reach your hand in and feel the pressure. See for yourself, don't take my word for it.,
Additionally, JetPaks allow you to decide which type of massage you want when you purchase it. Every other hot tub comes the way it comes. If you don't like the jets in the seat that fits you best, you have absolutely no recourse. The 16 different jetpaks are all very different in their massage, as is every person's preference for massage. Also, should your therapy needs ever change, you can simply purchase a new jetpak that suits you, rather than purchase a new hot tub. Bullfrog spas are infinitely upgradeable. As they come out with new jetpaks, you can upgrade your old tub.
For every jet in most hot tubs, there is a hole drilled in the shell and 2 different plumbing pieces and fittings to bring both water and air to the jet. They connect underneath the shell and are usually buried in foam. Should a leak ever develop, the process can be very frustrating. With a Bullfrog, most of those jets and fittings are in the water with you. You don't need to dig through foam to try and find the leak. You just pop the jetpak out. It doesn't even require a tool and the water does not have to be drained out of the tub, as is necessary in most other tubs.
It's not just JetPaks either. Bullfrog makes a solid tub from top to bottom. Their frame is 100% injection molded plastic, not wood or metal like most tubs. The frame carries a lifetime warranty. Now someone will chime in and say that they have seen plenty of 20 year old tubs with wood frames. That's good and true. I have also seen countless wood framed tubs fall apart when we try to remove them.
Bullfrog Spas are still made in the USA, if that means anything to you. Their pillows are made of a very durable rubber, rather than foam like most. The foam pillows look great for the first couple of years. The open cell foam ultimately becomes water logged and falls apart. I have never replaced a Bullfrog pillow. You can also pump them up with a bike pump to change the feel from soft to firm. Kind of like a sleep number bed. The motors are mounted on rubber bushings to dampen sound and vibration. The solid ABS base has electrical chaseways so that you can bring power in from any side without having to trench around the spa. There are a million little things like that go into a Bullfrog. Their design philosophy is to find a way to improve every minor detail in a hot tub. They aren't just playing follow the leader like most brands.
I could go on and on, but will leave it there for now. I firmly believe in the brand and truly feel that they have built a better mouse trap. I'm not here to say Bullfrog is better than anything else out there. I just feel the need to correct people when they say, "why do you need to move your jets, just move to another seat". This statement shows a distinct lack of understanding about the product and gives a false impression to those looking for insight during the confusing purchasing process. This is all just my opinion though. They may not be right for everyone and that's fine. There are quite a few great brands out there. I just want to make sure that accurate information is portrayed.
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Sam.... Thank you for your response... it sound like you sell the bullfrog brand and that is why I got on this site to get info from users and sales reps..... It is to bad that the retail store rep in my area was to much a "Smoke and Mirrors" type of a sales rep for us and turned us off of the brand......I had never heard of the Bullfrog brand and it was this site that made me consider it......I am not the type of person to jump into a 8-10 thousand dollar invest and not do my homework....when you get right down to it some of these brands are just a few hundred dollars difference and I am looking for the after market support for the next 10-15 years.........I appreciate you taking the time to make me look at the brand from a different point of view....I just might have to take a wet test.... I have the Hot Spring brand wet test scheduled for the end of the week
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You don't need to dig through foam to try and find the leak. You just pop the jetpak out. It doesn't even require a tool and the water does not have to be drained out of the tub, as is necessary in most other tubs.
There's a lot in this post that is nothing but salesmanship but alas who has the time.
Most tubs have slice valves that will isolate where 99% of the leaks I repair are. The equipment bay. And with no diverter valve how do you control the pressure if you prefer it lower? A diverter is not a bad thing.
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You don't need to dig through foam to try and find the leak. You just pop the jetpak out. It doesn't even require a tool and the water does not have to be drained out of the tub, as is necessary in most other tubs.
There's a lot in this post that is nothing but salesmanship but alas who has the time.
Most tubs have slice valves that will isolate where 99% of the leaks I repair are. The equipment bay. And with no diverter valve how do you control the pressure if you prefer it lower? A diverter is not a bad thing.
it's not a bad thing at all, I'll honestly say when I got a good look at all Bullfrogs tubs at the Vegas show I was impressed with the overall look and fit and finish...however I felt 6-8 various jets packs and there were all severely underwhelming, small nozzles and the pressure was not special at all. I'd rather have diverter(s) and adjustable bezel jets so I can dial it in the way I want it
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Actually each seat has it's own diverter, I also like the fact they have 2 ea 2spd pumps vs just one.. Overall I think it's a very nice and well built spa. As far as individual jets opening and closing and being able to "dial" it in, I believe HS just changed that what a year ago, so it must not be that big of a deal...
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Each jetpack has its own dial that you can control the pressure however it controls all the jets on the pack. On the jets that are not part of the jetpack you can dial them individually. For me personally, I get a variety and awesome therapy with my Bullfrog and I don't have to deal with multiple diverters to power off one set of jets to turn another set on. On my Bullfrog I can have all the jets running at the same time.
Is important to go and wet test as many tubs and brands as possible. When wet testing learn the different controls, take your time. Unfortunately you may run into bad salespeople (smoke and mirrors or who bad mouth the competition) is all part of the experience - LOL!
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Actually each seat has it's own diverter, I also like the fact they have 2 ea 2spd pumps vs just one.. Overall I think it's a very nice and well built spa. As far as individual jets opening and closing and being able to "dial" it in, I believe HS just changed that what a year ago, so it must not be that big of a deal...
Not sure about how long ago HS introduced the Jets that you can "Dial In" or adjust down individually but My 2007 HS Vista model had all these jets as well. It sounds as tho some people think you have to divert the pressure to one set of jets or the other ..This is not the case... You can simply leave the diverter control in the center and equal pressure will be sent to all jets at the same time and all jets can operate at the same time. But the cool part about the diverter you can actually put way more pressure to certain seats that you choose with the diverter and allowing 100% of the pumps pressure to just a few jets and it will certainly have some crazy power that you will most likely turn down after a short while as it is pretty darn strong. So like I stated...leave the diverter in the middle and have an equal pressure across the board or tune it in with stronger seats if you wish using the diverter. HS High Life models are very tunable. So altho the second pump is one speed (High ONLY) one can turn down the jets individually if they desire. So no need to have two speeds in my opinion. I know Jim...Spoken like a true salesperson.
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My 1998 Jetsetter also has these adjustable jets
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It sounds as tho some people think you have to divert the pressure to one set of jets or the other ..This is not the case... You can simply leave the diverter control in the center and equal pressure will be sent to all jets at the same time and all jets can operate at the same time.
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For the spa I previously owned that was the case. It wasn't a HS.
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Merriflower you prevoiusly owned a marquis I believe? The only jets you cant run at the same time as the others are the HK40 jets. You can run all the others at the same time by putting the diverter in the middle or you can divert it to give you more power to individual seats. The HK-40 are specialized jets that take 40 gpm on each jet whick is why they can't be run with the other jets. Some people like that feauture some people don't that's why it's great there is so many different tubs in the market
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I did own Marquis, two in fact. The first one, a 2003 Euphoria, the second a 2006 Epic. I could not get all jets running on the adirondack chair or the deep therapy chair. For the adirondack chair I could get a combo of thighs/calves or calves/feet if I put the D diverter in the middle between the numbers but no jets going on my back. :( The times that I put the diverter in the middle and not on the exact number it made a loud hissing noise. which was annoying as it was close to my ear. Dealer said that was normal as I wasn't exact on the number and it was water pressure.
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Had a wet test today at the Hot Springs brand... Tried the Vanguard and did not care for it... Kept being pushed out of the seat... He did not have a Pulse on the floor to test....
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Try a tub that has a center foot jet dome. I have a Sundance Optima and the dome helps keep you in your seat by giving your feet something to push against. Caldera tubs also have places molded into the floor to use as foot anchors. I liked the Caldera Niagara very much. Good luck in your search and make sure you continue to wet test and enjoy the process. It will pay off in the long run.
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You don't need to dig through foam to try and find the leak. You just pop the jetpak out. It doesn't even require a tool and the water does not have to be drained out of the tub, as is necessary in most other tubs.
There's a lot in this post that is nothing but salesmanship but alas who has the time.
Most tubs have slice valves that will isolate where 99% of the leaks I repair are. The equipment bay. And with no diverter valve how do you control the pressure if you prefer it lower? A diverter is not a bad thing.
As has been addressed, each jetpak has it's own valve that adjusts pressure in that particular jetpak. Once again you point out a negative to a hot tub that you obviously aren't familiar with. This is my biggest beef with you, though I wish you no ill will. I think you formed an opinion on Bullfrog from some of their older tubs, which I will admit aren't very nice. A modern Bullfrog kicks butt! No hard feelings buddy.
Also, the industry is going away from using slice valves. There are quite a few major brands that quit using them.