Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: BuckeyeFan on July 06, 2013, 05:01:19 pm
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Hello fellow spa owners. I am a newbie to spa ownership. My husband and I just purchaced a 2013 model hot tub and so far we LOVE it ! We have been enjoying it now for 3 weeks and though the water chemistry has been a challenge to say the least, I have been able to keep my levels spot on. Our spa has a ozone and we we're told to use the Frog bromine system. So my concern is are these chemicals we are useing be the cause of my UTI infection I recieved after only my third time using the spa ? I went to my doctor and he gave me a 7 day round of antibiotics. I stayed out of the spa for a week and got in it last night. I tested everything and everything was in the ok to ideal range. After about a hour of the spa I showered , then today I am experiencing a slight burning. So I did some research and there are several "all natural" spa treatments out there. Are these products safe and are they effective at maintaining a healthy spa ? I love my spa and I don't wanna be one of those people who spend a ton of money on a hot tub just to turn around and have to sell it because it makes them sick.
Please help with any advice.
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antibiotics are prescribed to get rid of BACTERIAL infections. Bacteria in spas is caused by improper sanitation. NONE of the "all natural" spa treatments even come CLOSE to meeting the EPA guidelines to meet the qualification of a SANITIZER (READ the actual instructions for them...many require using as much chemicals as if you didn't use them).
You say you your levels are "spot on"... yet you got a bacterial infection.
What are you testing with?
What EXACTLY are your readings?
What EXACTLY, EVERYTHING, are you putting in the spa, and how often (actual ingredients, NOT brand names)?
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Dr.Spa,
Thanks for responding. Let me start over from day 1, and I`m sorry for the noval I`m about to write.
We bought our spa from one of our local dealers who sell a variety of different brands. We bought a Dynasty Premium after about a year of researching and wet testing. Our spa was delivered on a Thursday June 13th. Tuesday june 16th we past our electrical and that evening we filled the spa up with water. Now when our spa was delivered the guys that delivered it went through a set up with us and gave us a paper with guidlines for Spa Startup & Chemical Maintenance. They gave us a Spa startup kit by SwimWay that contained Clarifer,Spa Cleaner, Metal Remover,Natural Enzyme,Granular,Non-Chlor Shock,Deformer,Scale Preventer, a packet of PH plus and a packet of PH down. We got two sample bottles of SpaPerfect, And the Spa Frog floating Bromine System with Bromine Cartridge and mineral cartridge .
The Start up sheet said after filling the spa with water to
add 2 oz of Granular/DiChlor
add 2oz of Metal Remover for 500 gals. (our tub is 350 gal) I put in 1 1/2 0z instead.
add the Spa Frog Bromine & Mineral
DAY 2
take out filters and clean filters with a hose and reinstall.
test levels with test strip . Use Ph plus or PH minus to adjust PH levels.
Weekly
add 4oz of Natural Enzyme or Spa Perfect
add 2oz of scale preventer
add 2oz Granual?DiChlor once a week
add 2oz Non Chlorine Shock 2 to 3 times a week depending on use, or everytime you get out of the tub.
Test water with test strip adjust levels as needed .
We are using the AquaChek Total Bormine Test strips.It tests Hardness, Bomine,Alkalinity, and PH
After filling the spa on the 16th I tested the water on the 17th pm. Bromine was in the HIGH (10) range. The Hardness was in the OK (250) range. The total Alkalinity was Ok (80) range. The PH was LOW at 6.8 So I added the PH Plus I slao dialed down the Bromine cartridge from 6 to 4. Waited 2 hours and tested again and everything was in the OK range.
A couple hours later my husband and I used the spa. We used it for about 2 hours. The next day , the 18th, The water looked fined and that evening I tested it and the PH was Low again 6.8 So I added 1 1/4 tsp of PH plus
Waited a hour tested again and everything was in the OK range. My husband and I then used the spa off and on for about 3 hours. During that time our 13 year old son used it for about 45 minutes. The next day the water was cloudy . The Ph was Off the Bromine was very low. I freaked, got out the maual and read about cloudy water. I shocked the water with Granual/DiChlor (20z) Took the filters out and washed them with a hose, After 2 days I got the water tests to read in the OK range but we still had cloudy water. I went to the Spa store and their Chemical Tech said to use Leisure Time Bright & Clear. So I bought some, came home and added 2oz like he said to do . After a couple hours the water cleared up but not perfect. Did a test strip and Bromine was Low everything else was in the OK range. I dialed up the Bromine cartridge up to 5. Came back two hours later test levels again and everything was in OK range except the Bromine was a little LOW. Reading of 1. and when we ran the jets the water was foaming pretty bad. So we added Deformer. After about a hour the foam was pretty much gone the cloudyness was pretty much gone. By the 21st everything was back to normal. no foam, clear water, Test levels showed everything in the Ok to Ideal range. But by this time I had the UTI going and havent been in the spa since the 18th. My husband was useing it just about every evening for about 30 minutes at a time. Everytime he was done using the spa I would add 2oz Non-Chlorine shock, Next day TSA would ne low and Ph would be low. I went to the spa store and told them what was going on and they said to use LeisureTime SpaUp. So I did and for the past week everything seem to be good. Water tests everything in the Ideal to Ok range
Now the guy at the spa store gave me a different spa maint sheet when I went in the first time and the guidelines on there are totaly different. So this past week I have done what he said to do.. Monday I added 2oz on Non-Chorline Shock , added 2oz scale preventer, Tested water balance PH was at 8.4 so I added PH Minus. Wednesday 2oz Non-chlor Shock and 4oz of SpaPerfect. Tested water balance Ph was High 8.4 Added PH minus.
Friday Added 2oz Non -Chlor Shock Tested water TSA was low at 4.0 and PH was Low at 6.8. Added Leisure Time SpaUp. Friday evening everything looked good, water balance test show everything IDEAL.
We then used the spa for about two hours. This was my first time using since I was done useing the antibodics. The next day my private area is ichy. So Im not sure what to do.
I hope I didnt confuse you even more. It just seems Im overthinking the whole water balance thing. I want a simple maintenance schedule., and I dont want to have dry itchy skin or private area. :'(
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I want a simple maintenance schedule
Since owning our tub, all I have used is EcoOne, never one problem and so simple to use.
Once a month, you add one bottle of their natural Spa Monthly; then, after every use, you toss in one of their One Shock packets. Once a week you double shock with two packets. That's it; my water is crystal clear, never any itch or rash, never once a scum line, never added any + or - this or that and never wasted any time trying to trouble shoot issues, nor wasted time with trips to my dealer to buy other chemicals to try to fix things.
Here are the two products you need - if you search online, you can find them cheaper elsewhere than listed on this site.
http://www.ecoonespa.com/spa-products-2/spa-monthly/
http://www.ecoonespa.com/spa-products-2/oneshock/
Yes, this solution will cost a little more per year vs. other solutions out there, but for some of us, time is money and having a simple solution that works so easily without any headaches, the extra cost is totally worth it. ;) Although, I do find it interesting, that some spa folks won't hesitate to drop $10,000-$15,000 on a hot tub, then they have to hunt to the ends of the Earth for the cheapest mix of stuff to put in it. And then, the "trouble shooting" begins... ::) :-\
J
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I am definitely not an expert but I don't think you are supposed to use diclor in a tub that is already being sanitized with bromine.
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You can probably maintain the spa with just the One Shock packets, and omit the EcoOne all together....course it's certainly even cheaper to just use regular, non pre packaged dichlor.
Dichlor is FINE to use with bromine! It's an oxidizer that will reactivate the bromide back into bromine.
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Don't be 100% positive the spa caused your UTI. Maybe it did, but we have owned a spa 11 years and my wife has had 2 UTIs during that period.
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When are you testing your water; before you get in or after you get out. I may have misuderstood your list of steps you take, but you Had to add chemical after each use, then the last step was test the water.
You should test your water before you use and not after. Please forgive it I misunderstood.
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I am definitely not an expert but I don't think you are supposed to use diclor in a tub that is already being sanitized with bromine.
This is true as in you can't stop using bromine and start using Chlorine in the same water. You have to start with fresh water to use chlorine after you tried Bromine. Least that's what "they" say. Guess I never tried it. Maybe the tub will explode?
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I am definitely not an expert but I don't think you are supposed to use diclor in a tub that is already being sanitized with bromine.
IDK, richierich, I`m getting totally confused on what I`m suppose to be doing, how much of what I should be adding and how often I should be adding. ???
The Spa Start-Up and Maintenace Schedule the dealer gave me when they delivered the spa along with the Swimway Spa Start-up kit, saids one routine weekely schedule of things to add and do wich is totaly different than what the Spa Tech/Chemical Guru told me to do in our one on one spa class he gave me.
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When are you testing your water; before you get in or after you get out. I may have misuderstood your list of steps you take, but you Had to add chemical after each use, then the last step was test the water.
You should test your water before you use and not after. Please forgive it I misunderstood.
Yes, Spoiledrotton, I am testing the water before I plan on useing the spa, with the test strips that I was told to buy when I was at the dealer. I follow the directions to the letter. I dip it down to my elbow, bring it up and wait about 15 seconds then compare to the chart on the back.
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I am definitely not an expert but I don't think you are supposed to use diclor in a tub that is already being sanitized with bromine.
This is true as in you can't stop using bromine and start using Chlorine in the same water. You have to start with fresh water to use chlorine after you tried Bromine. Least that's what "they" say. Guess I never tried it. Maybe the tub will explode?
So Tman122 your saying I should not be useing the Granual/DiChlor if I am useing the Bromine.
This is the start up kit I was supplied with. I was also givin The Spa Frog Bromine Floating System.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Kimandhunter/myspace/Hot%20Tub/7d81f2eb-369b-4a51-af22-6b18559deb96.jpg)
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I seen a new thread on here about what are the best chemicals to use ?? Im wondering if the start up kit they have me arent the best to be using.
On a new event.
The last couple days I can not get my PH and TSA to balance. I`ve added Ph plus and it will help untill the next day and they are back down again. :(
Aslo regaurding the UTI, After talking with a guy I work with who has owned a spa before tells me that my 13 son may of peed in the spa that second night we used it. Even though he said he didnt , its all making sence to me now. That day after he used it our water was very cloudy and nothing I tried would take care of it. And after reading what DrSpa posted I would say that some kind of bad funk got into the water that wasent there just the day before.
I gotta run.....I hope that more people will post theire thoughts. Im still confused if I should be useing DiChlor once a week along with the non-chlorine shock that Im suppose to use 2 to 3 times a week depending on useage.
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Hi BuckeyeFan,
I'm guessing we both purchased our spas from the same dealer in the Columbus area, because I was given the same maintenance instructions and chemicals as you were when our spa arrived ten days ago. I'm facing the same issues: cloudy water, unmentionable itchiness and stinging, and a daughter with an ear infection. I too found their maintenance instructions to be completely confusing, so I did a lot of research online to learn what to do instead. I'm still working it out and will post my plan once I have it (in order to get recommendations from the forums), but it seems there are much easier ways to maintain balanced and sanitized water than they recommend, using far fewer chemicals.
I've already alerted the dealer to the fact that their instructions, for one thing, conflict with our spa's owners manual (Hot Spring Vanguard), regarding chemical amounts and which ones void our warranty. Make sure you read your owners manual, not just their annoying maintenance sheet. I've removed the bromine cartridge from the Spa Frog, because even though they said that's the only type that will protect our warranty, it happens to be the one type that actually VOIDS our warranty according to our owners manual.
Good luck! I'll be back here either today or tomorrow to write down my plan.
O-H!
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Hi Lme1234
Good to see a fellow Buckeye. Well, I live closer to Cincinnati, we went to serveral Spa dealers in Cincinnati and Dayton area.. though we didnt buy a Hot Springs Spa we did spend a lot of time in their showroom. We also spent a lot of time at Knickerbocker`s looking at Jacuzzi`s and Sundance Spas. But we ended up buying from Watson`s. And yes, they have a lousey and confusing new customer instruction guide. I`m thinking they may of gave me the wrong Start-up kit. :o :o When I got home from work today, I tested my levels and the same thing as the past few days, Low PH 6.2 and Low Alkalinity 4.0. So freaking out I ran to Knickerbocker`s and picked up some Leisure Time Alkalinity Increaser. The guy there was most helpful . Anyway When I came back home I put 1 oz in like he said and now I`m letting it run for 30 min before I go test it. While waiting for that I got the kit back out and was looking at the back of it and seen where it is marked for someone who is doing chlorine. So now I dont know if I should call the dealer and ask them if they gave me the wrong kit. Is this stuff going to mess up my spa? >:( or does it matter? and like you said , if this hucks up my spa will my warranty be voided for my lack of knowledge ? ::) Here is a picture of the back of that start-up kit. (click link for a bigger view.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Kimandhunter/Hot%20Tub/th_20130709_193313_resized.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Kimandhunter/media/Hot%20Tub/20130709_193313_resized.jpg.html) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/Kimandhunter/Hot%20Tub/20130709_193313_resized.jpg
Yes , let me know what firgure out.
Thanks so much.
I-O !!
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No I think you can use Chlorine to shock a Bromine tub it's fine.
And by the way Bromine drives down PH and TA all by it's own self. Bring it up a little high and see if it takes longer for the bromine to drive it down. Baking soda will drive up low TA and Soda ash will drive up low PH. Cheaper than spa up, alk increaser whatever it's called.
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So what's anyone's thoughts on Cleanwater Blue ? From what I was reading it looks like a good spa product.
Thanks Tman122. I just went out and tested the water and the TSA was at 80 and the PH was high at 8.4. The Bromine was at 10. I'll mess with it in the morning. Gotta get to bed.
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Looks to me like you buy the Clear Water Blue and spend a bunch of money on it. Then use the same stuff your currently using on top of it. Don't waste your money.
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Hey all. So I am still battling my water balance. I'm getting frustrated. My OCD is getting the better of me. LoL... so with that.... I'm still hoping there is something out there that's better than bromine or chlorine. I was on Leisure Time web site. And I seen a product that they call LeisrureTime FREE.
Any thoughts on that product ? It has really good results on Amazon and ebay.
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I started out micromanaging my water also. Once you learn what balances your water and how to keep it balanced. What is the right sanitation for you. it will be easy. Don't get to carried away with products that promise high and end up delivering low. Some baking soda and granular chlorine and maybe some non chlorine shock, you should be good to go. A lot of people have good luck with a little granular chlorine and regular old household bleach for sanitation.
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Don't get discouraged! I'm also one of those OCD test people. At least I was when I first got my spa (about 4 months ago), now I'm a little more relaxed. The best advice that I learned from this site is to get a better test kit. The strips are nearly worthless. Especially for testing pH. If you can spring for it, get a complete Taylor Test Kit. The one that I use is the K-2006, but I think it is just for Chlorine, but there is probably a comparable one for Bromine. They're not cheap but they've helped me out immensely since I know I am getting accurate pH, TA, calcium hardness, and chlorine readings. That alone has helped me "stabilize" my routine and not swing wildly from one extreme to the next. If that one is out of your price range, get the K-1000 which will give you bromine and pH. They're only $5 on Amazon.
Another thing that helped me, given that I was over-treating the first month that I owned the spa, was to drain the water and start over. With the new test kit in hand and starting with fresh water, I was able to get things under control much quicker and easier the second time. Yes, it is a pain and costs a lot to start over (metal gon, calcium booster, etc), but it might be just what you need.
Good luck!
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Thank you gourmatt. I feel like I might have to do just that. Starting over with fresh water and a better testing method.
I was out of town for the past few days. But before I left I took out my filters and cleaned them, put in the chemicals that was due to be put in and tested everything the next day. My hardness was in the ok range. Bromine was in the ideal range. The tsa and ph were in the ok range. I then poured a bottle of ph ballance in per my dealers advice to lock in the ph and tsa.
Before I left I went over the maintenance with my husband. All he had to do was put in scale preventor and non-chlor shock on Monday. And on Wednesday put in spa perfect. And test the water balance. Well, come Wednesday he tells me we are out of test strips. I tell him to stop and pick up some on Thursday after work. Thursday night I get home and he tells me the water is murky and foams really bad with the jets are on. He saids he did the maintenance thint to the letter and he only used the spa one time while I was gone. I tested the water and the bromine was low as low can be and the tsa was high as high could be and the ph , well I'm not sure, I know it was high because it was pink in color but it also had a reddish tent to it. UG !!! So here we go again.