Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: ATC Buckeye on December 09, 2012, 11:49:05 pm
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Hello all, getting pretty frustrated over here with my Sundance Cameo. I bought it about 6 weeks ago from the original owner who kept it since new in a sunroom. It's in perfect condition. I replaced the filter, pillows and cover, and fired it up. We really love the tub but I'm getting really frustrated trying to keep it maintained. We are using the Spa Frog bromine system, and my chemicals have been totally out of whack. These test strips that came with my starter kit I bought from Litehouse are incredibly frustrating. They always showed bromine either non-existent or very low no matter what. So I bought the Taylor kit and finally am making some headway with keeping things in line. My wife has had rashes a couple of times, and I chalked that up to my ph and alk levels being real low. I've got that better now with the Taylor kit.
Anyway, tonight we hopped in now that I'm confident that I've got the chem levels pretty good, and now when we hit the jets and blower we got all this white tissue paper looking crapola all over the place in the water. Gross.
Also, when I had the tub connected, I had the electrician connect it to a 60amp service so I can run everything together without the heater cutting off. Well, tonight I happened to be looking at the panel when I turned both pumps on high and I see that the heater doesn't stay on. I think there's a jumper that probably never got moved.
So, please, talk to me like I'm an idiot because that's how I feel right now.
1. What's the easiest way to get rid of this white floaty stuff which I'm pretty sure is water mold, or white mold, or something like that. I better get cracking cuz I'm in Cleveland and winter is upon us. Am I looking at multiple drains and fills? I sure hope not or I'm gonna have a skating rink for a backyard. But I'm not getting back in it until this sh!t is gone.
2. How do I convert the tub to run properly on this 60amp service?
I feel like once I've got a hang of the chemistry I'll be able to maintain it fine, but I'm quite frustrated right now. I've done tons of searching about the white water mold, and my head is spinning trying to figure out what to do about it. Some say pour bleach in, others say run some spa flush stuff, others say tons of chlorine and multiple drains and refills....
Please help, first hot tub and really annoyed. I just want to soak! But I'm totally skeeved out by this mold.
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Did some more searching and I think I see now which jumper to set. I'm headed back to the dealer today to try to formulate a mold combat plan.
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step #1 is to ditch the spa frog and go on a chlorine system, cheaper, less finicky, and easier to maintain clear fresh smelling water
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Moving away from the strips was a good start if you're struggling. I can only offer what works for me. I'm not expert, but haven't had any trouble yet and my routine is pretty simple. If I was having mysterious goo, here's what I'd do.
Shock the heck out of the system with Chlorine. Then dump the water and start over. (If there is anything in the pipes you're trying to kill/clean out, I'd spend a few dollars on chlorine just to be safe. Maybe the water change would be good enough, but why not zap it just to be safe)
Maintenance
Use Chlorine: http://amzn.to/TPD8l0
I use a few teaspoons when getting out of the tub. Enough to get the water levels to 3ppm or higher.
Check your alkalinity. I typically have to add some baking soda. Your mileage may vary.
Wait a few hours and then check your PH. I happen to use SpaDown most often
http://amzn.to/TR9Hy0
Once a week shock it:
http://amzn.to/RlgFgG
That's about it for me. I don't endorse any of the above brands, but thought the links might be helpful. Goodluck to you.
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I went to Litehouse and they sold me something called Spa Purge. They say it'll clean out the plumbing back to new. Said they always recommend it for people with a preowned spa. It seems pretty simple to use and reviews are good. So I'm going to run that thru and drain and start over.
I always thought bromine worked better for hot tubs? Don't know why I thought that though. If I can't get this new water balanced right I may make a switch. But I have 3 refills that I'd like to use up and not waste.
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Well, for ease of use, some are likely tired of my plug for EcoOne, but it requires nothing more than one bottle of a natural product poured in monthly, then one sanitizer packet when you get out. I've never had an issue, nor purchased other chemicals to add to my water. Good luck with things.
J
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Seriously?? I'd like to hear more about a product that simple to use.
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Seriously?? I'd like to hear more about a product that simple to use.
I posted this recently...What I use for our hot tub...
1) EcoOne Spa Monthly - all natural, you pour one bottle in per month.
http://www.ecoonespa.com/spa-products-2/spa-monthly/
2) EcoOne Spa Shock - simply chuck in one packet when you exit the hot tub; and once a week, every Wed/Thurs. when I get out, I chuck in two packets. I stand inside my back door as I finish toweling off and toss in a packet; then just after 5 min. or so, I go back outside and turn the jets off and cover my hot tub until next time.
http://www.ecoonespa.com/spa-products-2/oneshock/
That's it; your levels will be spot on everytime. EcoOne is simple to use and it works perfectly and assures that you are not putting in too much, just what is necessary and never a need for any "fixing" chemicals, etc.
I swap out our filters every few weeks. I replace with 2 clean ones, then soak and clean the other ones, then put those on the shelf to go back into the hot tub next time I swap out filters. By the way, I have never had a scum or water line, zippo.
J
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Gotta be honest, that seems too good to be true. There's no catch? Jeez I've been chasing levels all over the place with this spa frog system. And I do feel dry and itchy when I get out, but then again I'm probably covered in mold!
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Gotta be honest, that seems too good to be true. There's no catch?
Nope, no catch, what I described is exactly what I do. :) I never spent a minute trying to trouble shoot anything, nor made any trips to my local shop to spend money to buy additional products in order to play "chemist" in my hot tub. ;D
I own a Viking 2 hot tub which is 250 gallons; one packet is good for 250 gallons (perhaps a little more); if your tub is much larger, you might need to toss in two packets; or alternate with use, using one packet, then the next time, two packets - that's about the only thing I can think of that might be different with your tub vs. mine. Everything else is the same; their Spa Monthly is good for a 500 gallon tub and using the entire bottle for a smaller tub is fine.
If EcoOne sucked, I wouldn't tout it the few times I have and I would have done a review stating it doesn't work and one should avoid it. But, it works and it's simple.
J
PS. I haven't felt itchy or anything, nor have had any mold issues; water always looks good.
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Buckeye - if you try this, and it works for you, come back and share the results. I'm sure Johnny would like the company. :)
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Buckeye - if you try this, and it works for you, come back and share the results. I'm sure Johnny would like the company.
YES, please do if you give it a try! :) Always glad to share info on a product that has worked great for me; especially coming off of regular postings about others having trouble maintaining their spa's levels and other related issues.
J
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Well, I'm tempted. But, I've still got 3 Frog refills that I bought, and the Taylor Bromine test kit that I just got recently, so I'm not crazy about giving up on all that stuff. But, I'll do whatever it takes to sort this thing out. I gotta be honest though, reading about the product, it sounds snake-oily to me. Not saying it is, but that's just how it comes off to me. I certainly appreciate the input tho Johnny, but I'm gonna think it over a bit more.
I'm real hesitant now that I searched for a local Eco One dealer, and the only one that comes up in the Cleveland area is Northeast Factory Direct, which is one of those dumb places that posts 100 times daily on Craigslist, and puts up those fake handwritten signs on street corners for $10k spas for $3500. Ugh.
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You're like me; doing your homework before buying things and approaching things with a slight skeptical eye. :)
I did the same thing; not only with my hot tub and cover caddy, contacted both with my list of questions, but with EcoOne, talked to them as well before placing my first order.
I can tell you they are the real deal; I live in WI and they are headquartered in Kenosha WI - that's not why I use their product though. For ordering, I just use their main EcoGeeks website - http://www.ecoonespa.com/store-locator/ecoone-available-online/
The place I bought my hot tub from carries 30-40 other products and fixing chemicals, etc. that I've never heard of, but don't stock EcoOne - my gut feeling, is there either isn't enough mark-up room for them to warrant stocking it vs. other products in which they can make more (and I understand that), and/or if they did carry the EcoOne product, could they lose $500-$1,000+ in sales per month from customers who are coming in to buy "fixing chemicals" and enhancers, etc.? Or, it could be they just aren't familiar with the product either; just as there are a ton of spa mfg, there are also a ton of spa treatment offerings out there too.
Anyway, if you continue to have issues with what you have on-hand and you give EcoOne a shot; please do report back with how it worked for you.
J
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Well hell. I used Spa Purge, drained, wiped everything down real good with some spray spa cleaner, refilled, and everything looked great.
We got in to soak tonight, I hit one of the pumps, and bam, tub full of white flakes again. GRRRRRRR.
So tomorrow I'm going to do the super chorination routine I read on another tub forum. And drain again, and refill, again.
This tub is supposed to be relaxing! This is a royal PITA. The price I'm paying for buying used, I suppose.
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Okay so I'm done with the superchlor procedure. I refilled, and when I switched the breaker back on and the pump kicked on low, I got a bunch of pretty large brown/black flakes all around in the water. I'm thinking that at this point I'll start skimming them out every day until I don't see them anymore, then just use the damn thing.
Sound good to you guys?
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Seriously?? I'd like to hear more about a product that simple to use.
Dichlor. It is as easy as it gets, and needs no expensive 'other' items.
Balance the water using something like "Spa Up" and/or "Spa Down." These are just baking soda (up) and dry acid (down), so you can buy just about any brand, and you can even use Baking Soda or Vinegar if you need to. Look for things such as "pH +" or similar if you don't have Leisure Time chems in your area.
Then simply add a bit of Dichlor as you exit the spa, every time. The amount you add will vary acc. to use and the environment in the tub area, but starting with a teaspoon per person per use is a good rule of thumb.
That's it! Doesn't get easier. Also - if you leave the tub lid open for ten minutes with the jets on after you add the Dichlor, you will add YEARS of life to your spa cover, and get rid of most of the chlorine odor. Once a month, add a couple of ounces of Dichlor as a shock, do the same after any guests enjoy your tub.
If you are doing this correctly, you should have NO chlorine odor as you get out of the tub, and very little (if any) as you enter.
Now: Getting rid of "Water Mold" is not tough, but takes a bit of time. Balance the water (pH and TA) and then add two ounces of Dichlor. Run jets (ALL jets) with the lid off for half an hour. At least five hours later check the chlorine level. If it is low, add another ounce. If it is high, close the lid. Follow up with more chlorine to keep the level at or above 3ppm for the next several days. And each day, rinse off the filter(s) to get as much of the stuff out as possible - don't rinse the filters in the spa area.
HTH
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@Chaz, that's good info, thanks. I'm going to use up the Bromine I've got and then revisit this.
But in the meantime, my tub is worthless cuz I can't kill this mold. In fact I called Litehouse yesterday and set up a time to have a spa tech come out and help me. I'm so frustrated with these flakes at this point I'm regretting buying this tub honestly. But, I've done so much work retrofitting it into my deck that there's really no turning back.
So here's where we're at. I ran Spa Purge thru the system as directed, drained, wiped down all the funkiness than came out and rinsed everything out, soaked filters in cleaner, rinsed, replaced. Refilled with fresh water, and flakes came right back out of those jets. So, I tried the superchlorination technique I read about on another forum. That meant pouring 5 cups bleach in, running for awhile thru all jets, all diverter valves, all air selectors swapped all around, etc etc. Ran that insanely chlorinated water thru everything I could find. Then, I pulled the filters again, rinsed them again, and then dumped some hydrogen peroxide into the funky water to bring the level back down enough to dump in my grass. Then, I drained the water again, shop vac'ed every flake I could see as it was dumping, and wiped everything out again. I opened the bottom drain, let some of that hi-test water out that way (more funkiness came out) and wiped and cleaned everything. I even took all the jets I could figure out how to remove out, and wiped them down.
Refilled again with fresh water. Added 2 oz of Bromine spa boost, and popped in a fresh bromine stick into my Spa Frog and a new mineral stick as well. Set the frog on 6, then turned it down to 3 the next day.
So now, everything is sparkling clear and looks great, but as soon as I hit a pump, bam, white nasty flakes everywhere.
I'm at my wits end now, and we're expecting a heavy snow storm tonight and tomorrow.
So as far as adding that dichlor, can I still do that at this point with my bromine treatment? Am I looking at yet another dump and refill? Cuz if that's the case, I'm screwed weather wise.
So frustrated right now. I'm ready to just pay this tech whatever he wants to straighten this damn thing out for me. Which I'm not ever sure is something that he will do.
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Okay, I just went out and checked on it, and for starters my bromine levels are ridiculously high. Usually I can barely get it to register on the strips, now I'm getting it to show the "high" color. With my Taylor kit, it took 17 drops to get the water to turn back to clear, which is 8.5 ppm (!!!) I turned my frog down to two, or should I leave it cranked up high while I battle this mold??? It burns my eyes to stand over it for too long (I've been using a pool skimmer to remove as many flakes as I can).
The filter was loaded with flakes again. I rinsed it off and skimmed out the filter box.
Man, I'm confused. The Ph and TA look pretty close to normal on the strips. I didn't test those levels with the Taylor kit.
EDIT: Just tested with Taylor kit, got 8.0 on Ph and 100 on TA. So I added 2 oz ph down and 1 oz TA up.
I'm now trying to get the tub to filter out the flakes itself. It seems if I run one of the pumps, the water gets drawn in thru the footwell, and all the flakes get kicked up around the tub. Then, if I hit the other pump, the water gets drawn in through the filter box and the filters trap the flakes. So, I'm alternating running the one pump for a minute, then the other for its entire cycle. Maybe I can get the tub to filter out the flakes itself. I feel like the "stuff" must be dead after that super chlorination treatment (I'd think that would kill freakin' everything!) and maybe the pumps are just purging the dead crap.
As you can see, this is my first tub, and since I bought it used I didn't get any kind of instruction on how to run it. I've been using these forums to try to work it out on my own. Thank you all for your help so far.
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Okay, I just went out and checked on it, and for starters my bromine levels are ridiculously high. Usually I can barely get it to register on the strips, now I'm getting it to show the "high" color. With my Taylor kit, it took 17 drops to get the water to turn back to clear, which is 8.5 ppm (!!!) I turned my frog down to two, or should I leave it cranked up high while I battle this mold??? It burns my eyes to stand over it for too long (I've been using a pool skimmer to remove as many flakes as I can).
The filter was loaded with flakes again. I rinsed it off and skimmed out the filter box.
Man, I'm confused. The Ph and TA look pretty close to normal on the strips. I didn't test those levels with the Taylor kit.
EDIT: Just tested with Taylor kit, got 8.0 on Ph and 100 on TA. So I added 2 oz ph down and 1 oz TA up.
I'm now trying to get the tub to filter out the flakes itself. It seems if I run one of the pumps, the water gets drawn in thru the footwell, and all the flakes get kicked up around the tub. Then, if I hit the other pump, the water gets drawn in through the filter box and the filters trap the flakes. So, I'm alternating running the one pump for a minute, then the other for its entire cycle. Maybe I can get the tub to filter out the flakes itself. I feel like the "stuff" must be dead after that super chlorination treatment (I'd think that would kill freakin' everything!) and maybe the pumps are just purging the dead crap.
As you can see, this is my first tub, and since I bought it used I didn't get any kind of instruction on how to run it. I've been using these forums to try to work it out on my own. Thank you all for your help so far.
sounds like your on the right track...if it appears the flakes are not going away anytime soon I would recommend this: http://www.silkbalance.com/pages/cleaning-your-spa (http://www.silkbalance.com/pages/cleaning-your-spa) its called clean start and its the best "purge" product I have ever used. A bag should run right around $17-$25 at most (fyi you will need a plain old 5 gal. bucket to dilute and use the product)
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Okay thanks, maybe I'm just being really optimistic but I swear it seems like it's actually starting to work. Although they're way easier to see at night, so I'm gonna go out there soon to spray off the filter and take a look. Wish me luck.
PS is it safe to get in it tonight with the bromine up pretty high? Assuming the chips are mostly gone I'd love a soak.
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Okay thanks, maybe I'm just being really optimistic but I swear it seems like it's actually starting to work. Although they're way easier to see at night, so I'm gonna go out there soon to spray off the filter and take a look. Wish me luck.
PS is it safe to get in it tonight with the bromine up pretty high? Assuming the chips are mostly gone I'd love a soak.
no problems soaking, if the levels or smell are too bad you could always add fresh water to dilute the chlorine/bromine level down a bit
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I think you may have missed the last paragraph of my post. This has worked for hundreds of our customers over two decades - give it a shot. And yes, you can still add Dichlor even once you have begun to use Bromine.
Summary: balance water, add dichlor - keep the chlorine level up high for several days. Rinse the filter every day until this is behind you.
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Ok thank you. I've been running jets and rinsing the filter every day and I think it's almost gone. I think it's just spitting out dead pieces right now. Every day has been lots less, today was almost none.
If it persists, I will do that treatment. Will I have to dump and refill after adding the dichlor, once flakes are gone?
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No, not at all. The water mold is organic, and the chlorine tries to kill it. It takes days and days to get it all, and you will have to keep adding dichlor. Once you get a good reading of chlorine which lasts overnight, you are on the home stretch. Once the chlorine stays put, and you don't see any flakes, you have won!!
And the chlorine level will go down by itself in another day or two.
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Ok great. If its not currently dead I will do just that. Thanks again.
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No charge !
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No charge !
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Please check PM, requesting more assistance.
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Hey Chas, I sent you a message but I think I answered most of my own questions. The only part I'm not certain on, is do I leave the Bromine frog out of the tub during this DiChlor treatment? I picked up the DiChlor and some chlorine test strips today, and I just tossed 2 oz of it in the tub and am currently running all the jets with the lid open. I took the Frog out for now.
Also, once this is all done, what do I need to do to the water to return to regular bromine usage? Nothing? Will the DiChlor dissipate on its own if I stop adding it?