Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: lwaxman on May 18, 2004, 10:53:44 am
-
We are looking for our first hot tub and have looked at (and wet tested) Artesian Opal, HotSpring Vanguard and Grandee, and Sundance Optima so far. Artesian Opal is the best deal price wise and has lifetime structural warranty. Wondering about Artesian with its 3 pumps (almost felt too powerful and too much pressure so maybe overkill). Liked Optima except for following: could not turn on footwell jets when back massage seat on full or near full. Had to turn down the back jets to use foot jets. Also, did not like whirlpool jet since could not comfortable sit in front of it and use for back massage.
All are good - just looking for any further comments or feedback, especially concerning Artesian since I do not seem they mentioned very often on any message boards.
-
Not as familiar with Artesian, but either of the other 2 brands you tested would be a good choice. Perhaps Artesian would be as well, I didn't consider that brand when I went shopping.
Brewman
PS- The whirlpool jets aren't designed to directly massage your back, they are made to move the water in a circular direction.
-
lwaxman:
Could you sit in the accu-sage seat in the Optima with the jets on full with air? I know I cannot, and just and FYI most women hate that seat because of the amount of pressure in that seat. Also, the whirlpool jet is supposed to be on when you aren’t using the spa.
Did you wet test the Hotspring Grandee? That is a tub is one of Hotspring’s best sellers because of its two moto-massages. Realize the main difference in price between the Grandee and the Optima is going to be caused by the Grandee giving you 6 seats with great massages compared to the Optima’s 4 seats with great massages. Both the Hospring and Sundance brands are top of the line brands, does anyone say that consistently about the Artesian. This may be the reason why the Artesian is the "best deal" price wise.
Chris H.
-
'Also, the whirlpool jet is supposed to be on when you aren’t using the spa.'
This doesnt make sense. You are saying turn these on when you are not in the tub? WHy have them then?
-
lwaxman,
Look at the info on manufacturer comparisons and their 4 tiered ratings at the www.poolandspa.com site. The Artesian is listed there as a 3 star tub, whereas your other choices are 4 star.
They have 27 4-Star Best of Class hot tub manufacturers listed. Based on my reading of over a thousand posts from the past 2 years, it appears that their are only a half dozen truly "best" nationally known manufacturers acknowledged by large numbers of folks, considering their standing behind their products, providing good warranty service, and serving folks fairly and honestly. Some of these are Jacuzzi, Hot Springs, and Sundance. Note that individual dealers of these brands are sometimes not favorably rated by folks. For example, a common statement is that the Sundance sales folks are haughty and don't compete with others. There is a reason - the Sundance product is truly better in several technical aspects and more costly to produce. The same is true of Hot Springs and others in specific but different ways. I'll let others fill you in on their favorites. I should point out that there are some on the 4-Star list that do not stand behind their warranty.
Electro
-
needaspa:
Use common sense, and I also find it appalling that you would ask me privately what dealers pay for a spa “right from the manufacturer”. I never said I was a Sundance dealer. I said I was a dealer. Please make sure you add insurance, electricity, sales commissions, and service technicians to the price of your $6,500 Optima. I see you still haven’t gotten your Optima yet. Please tell me when you do.
On with my response, the whirlpool jets are designed to be used when you aren't in the spa because the water filters more efficiently using the whirlpool jets. Does it mean that the spa doesn’t filter when the whirlpool jet is off absolutely not, but it filters better when using the whirlpool jets. There is no seat directly attached to the whirlpool jet, hence it is not supposed be used when using the spa.
Chris H.
-
CHris,
Whirlpool jets were not built into the spa for filtration purposes! The whirlpool jets are used to circulate the water in a whirlpool as you sit in the spa. Filters and filter pumps are for filtration.
I asked you privately about the cost of the Optima so as to be private and not announced to the internet world.
-
I cannot sit in the optima therapy seat with jets on high and with air. It is just too much pressure. The jets give a totally different action without the air though. The whirlpool jets are something I personally am happy that Sundance has retained. There are not too many spas with whirlpool jets anymore. They give the water a lot of movement. I like them on low when I am just sitting quietly not wanting a lot of massage action.
If you have never owned a hot tub before, I guarantee you will use it differently when you own it than what you imagined when you were looking.
-
needaspa:
You can have your opinion on the whirlpool and I can have mine. If my water is cloudy I turn the whirlpool jet on to clean them. In my opinion it cleans faster. In your opinion, it is to circulate the water, but I guess that also filters the water, too. My apologies for publicizing your question to me.
Tony,
I liked this comment and it is completely true. "If you have never owned a hot tub before, I guarantee you will use it differently when you own it than what you imagined when you were looking."
-
Needaspa.
I have read three posts today and all have included some form of negativism from you. Do us all a favour and buy your tub based on the best price you are able to get. Then come back here and brag about your best priced tub so that we may congratulate you and then you can go AWAY.
Seriously, have you anything instructive to bring here or were you bludgueonded by a spa dealer in a previous life?.
Again I ask. Have you any proof on your profit margin claims or not? Why don't you become a dealer and make the big bucks that you think dealer make.
-
Kudos to doodoo....couldn't have said it better myself!!!!
-
Hi lwaxman,
I purchased an Artesian Piper Glen from their Platinum line this year. I have zero experience with the Opal. However, for me the Piper Glen was the best choice (even after looking at all the "major" brands) and I am extremely satisfied with my choice. I would not put too much credence on any rating of a spa or manufacturer. I have not found a review site yet that I feel is unbiased. You also have to take into account how recent is the review? This year, last year, 5 years ago when the website was first built?
I do not even put much faith in all the "Consumer Digest" Best this or Best that awards (hype.) Spend alot of time doing your research and wet test as many spas as you are able. Rank what features are important to you, create a speadsheet with the features as columns and the and then list the spas as rows. Assign a numerical value (1 thru 5 works well) for each spa and feature. Leave price out till the end. Then make some sort of a stab at ranking them in order (I say stab because even after going thru all this trouble, you will have feelings about this or that brand that can not be quantified.) If price is a motivator, find the spa you like and then contact as many dealers in your area as you can and request a qoute (keep the qoutes on equal footing however.) If the price doesn't suit you, then go down the list to the second most liked spa.
Hope this helps.
-
kmac - thanks for the input. A good friend purchased the Artesian Opal after extensive research and wet testing over a few months. I have just not seen very much discussion or mention of Artesian on this or other message boards so had some concern about this.
-
From what I have seen on message boards and such it is the dealers that pretty much run the boards and promote their products, I am not saying this is a bad board, but you do pretty much hear about the top 6 or 8 spa's. Does that make the rest of them that are not talked about bad spas? I think if they have been around for a few years and there were problems with them you whould see information about that on these type of forums.
Look at the top of the page and see what is advertized...
-
You know why pay more.... I said to you I was unaware that you were a slow thinker...Thank you for confirming it for me with this post...Now lets lay open just how really slow you are...."but you do pretty much hear about the top 6 or 8 spa's. So you are saying that the top 6 or 8 makers control this board….hummm that being the case the other top makers who are the competition for each other…actually get together and are in collusion together. Also if the board was censored why are you still here with that river of ignorance flowing out of your mouth with out being edited...? If you actually had any ability to think or look at anything any a objective way you could see that it is an open board with people posting based on there experiences and the majority of those are individual owners...they are some people who do post who are in the industry but most are up front about it and for the most part usually never will say theirs is the only spa to buy.... so again why do you insist and making such false statements that have zero merit..."[..."
From what I have seen on message boards and such it is the dealers that pretty much run the boards and promote their products, I am not saying this is a bad board, but you do pretty much hear about the top 6 or 8 spa's. Does that make the rest of them that are not talked about bad spas? I think if they have been around for a few years and there were problems with them you whould see information about that on these type of forums.
Look at the top of the page and see what is advertized...
-
No soul searching to learn that Mr. Mendocino101 is out of hand. Of course this site is run by Hot Springs, it helps their search value. The board is a freebee no doubt, but, those site building advert folks tune in something aweful. Nothing out their is objective. Nothing. No Consumer's Digest - they charge a hefty fee to rate and don't really test the product - No PoolSpa.com site - they charge a fee to get a good rating, No nothing. The only folks that care enough to do this is the folks that do this. Honestly, at the end of the day, YOu need to wet test, and honestly, in spite of this rubbish spread, The Opal is a winner.
-
We are looking for our first hot tub and have looked at (and wet tested) Artesian Opal, HotSpring Vanguard and Grandee, and Sundance Optima so far. Artesian Opal is the best deal price wise and has lifetime structural warranty. Wondering about Artesian with its 3 pumps (almost felt too powerful and too much pressure so maybe overkill). Liked Optima except for following: could not turn on footwell jets when back massage seat on full or near full. Had to turn down the back jets to use foot jets. Also, did not like whirlpool jet since could not comfortable sit in front of it and use for back massage.
All are good - just looking for any further comments or feedback, especially concerning Artesian since I do not seem they mentioned very often on any message b
oards.
Iwaxman,
I don't have any experience with the Artesian but have some advice regaurding your concerns with the three pumps.
My Coleman 706 has three pumps as well, but all three are 2 speed. Each area has an air control so if lets say the person in lounger wants that pump on low with the air on high, or the pump on high with no air on, it doesn't affect the rest of the the soakers. Each jet can also be individually turned down or off. So if the Artesian allows you to indivdually adjust pressure without taking away from the other soakers don't let the 3 pumps worry you.
As a buyer be concerned about filtration, efficency, jet placement and therapy, seating comfort, (as all above won't matter if your spa doesn't fit you, ) and warranty. Get a copy of the warranty from the dealer and read the exclusions. Better to know now than later.
Ask the dealer for a list of some of his custamers, ( of course these will be hand picked by the dealer) most consumers are honest and will shed additional light on the product.
As a Coleman dealer of course Coleman would be in my top 5 spas. I know a bit about Hotsprings and Sundance as well and they are both good quality spas.
Beware of dealers who spend more time running the competition down than selling their own product.
Your dealer should know his/her own product inside out
Hottub customers are quite saavy, go with the technology that makes the most sence to you. Good luck let us know what you ended up with.
Spahappy
-
You know why pay more.... I said to you I was unaware that you were a slow thinker...Thank you for confirming it for me with this post...Now lets lay open just how really slow you are...."but you do pretty much hear about the top 6 or 8 spa's. So you are saying that the top 6 or 8 makers control this board….hummm that being the case the other top makers who are the competition for each other…actually get together and are in collusion together. Also if the board was censored why are you still here with that river of ignorance flowing out of your mouth with out being edited...? If you actually had any ability to think or look at anything any a objective way you could see that it is an open board with people posting based on there experiences and the majority of those are individual owners...they are some people who do post who are in the industry but most are up front about it and for the most part usually never will say theirs is the only spa to buy.... so again why do you insist and making such false statements that have zero merit..."[..."
There are four or five forums on the internet on Hot Tubs.
This form is by far the most active and informative.
There is a mix of dealers, repair people, and owners who all lend their collective experiences.
I have not seen any influence by the tier one manuafactures on this board.
-
I've only seen one board that definitely showed any bias on a regular basis. Its not this one, but it is a haven of bias.
-
That site is just south of Haven, if you ask me.