Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Mike32110 on July 20, 2012, 02:18:57 am
-
Hey guys, I am in some dire need of advice. I bought a 7-8 year old Beachcomber hot tub used, and everything electrical seems to work great. However, when I finally filled it up for the first time there was a couple very light leaks near the external motor that I was not too worried about as I figured I would tighten them after or just use something to seal it. I also noticed there was a big puddle forming in the center of the hot tub, with it dripping down from the metal base at a few drops per second in a gap between my concrete stones. I assumed/hoped that this was the water that was leaking near the motor adhering to the hot tub and then dripping down below. However when the hot tub was finally full, I turned on the motor and to my delight it did work, however, I noticed that where the dripping was in the center of the tub was now POURING with water ( I mean the whole tub drained in about 30-60 minutes).
I am assuming now that there was a leak in the internal plumbing of the hot tub, and by turning the pump and heater on the extra pressure just blew it right open.
So this is a large beachcomber fully insulated hot tub, and I was just wondering. A: am I right about what happened? B: What is the BALLPARK price of fixing this (I'm in Canada)? C: Would hiring a plumber suffice?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
-
Sounds like it might be one of the suctions if your losing that much water. You could call a plumber but it's not going to be cheap and they might not do it anyway. You can call a spa or pool place they will fix it but it's still going to be spendy. If it is in the btm of the spa it will have to be fliped on its side or lifted up and placed on blocks or jack stands. It's not a hard nor fun job but unless you fix it your stuck. :'( Sounds like freeze damage maybe?
-
Okay, that's what I figured since the guy has had it off since like March and it's gone below zero a bunch of times since then. I should clarify that the water is pouring out the bottom but at the VERY front and middle, in the since that it would appear the leak was occuring on the side of the hot tub and is pouring through the foam and out those two spots. I can literally see the water drop into the ground from the front, and it is not coming from the middle, so I figured my best bet would be to keep it flat, remove the wood on that side, and then start cutting away at the foam to see if it was an obvious leak that I could find myself. If not, get a repair guy to do the rest and at least save money on opening up the foam myself. Ideas?
Also, how much is alot for a repair? 500? 1500?
-
Sounds like a good plan, you really need to find out where it's coming from first. Hopefully it's not a cracked shell which you should be able to see inside. If you look inside the shell do you see a suction fitting in the foot well where the water might be leaking out?
-
Sorry, I forgot to mention that after i turned off the pump the water still was flowing out at the same rate. Does that make it less likely to be the suction?
I'm assuming it's not a cracked shell because then wouldn't I see air bubbles float up the hot tub where the crack would be? Also, if its a cracked shell the tub is pretty much garbage, correct?
I haven't opened up anything yet, my plan is to do this over the next couple of days.
-
Sorry I think I mis-read your post. You mean looking at the inside of the shell as in where you would sit? I didn't see anything noticable yesterday but I'll look again today. What would a suction footer look like exactly?
-
Also, one more question. Wouldn't the fact that the leak went from a couple of drops per second to a couple of litres per second when I turned the pump ON for the first time rule out that the shell was cracked? I don't think that the pump would make the shell leak more??
Sorry, i'm all of a sudden paranoid about the shell cracking, since I assumed it was the plumbing.
-
Also, one more question. Wouldn't the fact that the leak went from a couple of drops per second to a couple of litres per second when I turned the pump ON for the first time rule out that the shell was cracked? I don't think that the pump would make the shell leak more??
Sorry, i'm all of a sudden paranoid about the shell cracking, since I assumed it was the plumbing.
if the leak started once your pressurized the system (aka turned on the pumps) then its not a shell leak, sounds like a busted line to me, even if your not comfortable making the repair I would prop the tub up and at least attempt to dig it out and find it, that will def. make the repair bill a little easier on the wallet
-
Well it's a pretty large tub (90x90) and it took five people with straps to lift it up to get it to my house. How exactly would one "lift it" (on the side, or off the groud on a paltform?) and what would the advantage of this be? It sounds like there was a small crack that blew open once I turned on the heater and blew up. Estimated repair cost?
-
Well it's a pretty large tub (90x90) and it took five people with straps to lift it up to get it to my house. How exactly would one "lift it" (on the side, or off the groud on a paltform?) and what would the advantage of this be? It sounds like there was a small crack that blew open once I turned on the heater and blew up. Estimated repair cost?
well you could dye the water, let it leak, drain the tub, tip it up on its side and trace the leak/dye digging out the foam until you find the leak..the advantage is that you will save a lot of money because 9 times out of 10 a company will not perform a leak locate/repairs on site so you end up paying for them to pick it up, repair it, and pay them again to bring it back, this is tough to estimate over the web but most companies are going to charge $300-$500 just to pick it up and bring it in for an estimate, repair costs could easily be another $500-$1500 depending parts/time/labor involved. So what I was saying is if you are at all "handy" you could save yourself some money by locating it yourself and even if you don't repair it you would have it "ready to repair" for a professional
-
All good advice, and no it does not sound like a cracked shell.
-
Considering I paid 500 to get it moved here there is not a chance in hell I would pay to get it shipped anywhere else, i assumed that they would come to my house and fix it?
Any ideas for taking off the wood pannels and foam?
-
Considering I paid 500 to get it moved here there is not a chance in hell I would pay to get it shipped anywhere else, i assumed that they would come to my house and fix it?
Any ideas for taking off the wood pannels and foam?
I'm not saying 100% they won't fix it on site, but its much more difficult and will cost you more...I'll give you an example: in our nice clean shop we have "wet test" racks to lift the tub in the air to get underneath while its full so we can search for/repair leaks, we have a pool pump and water tank setup where we can literally fill and/or drain a 500gal. tub in 5 minutes, + all the appropriate tools and parts on hand to repair a tub fairly quick. vs and on-site repair where you have none of that....look I'm just giving a general example over the internet, I have no idea what your site looks like, no idea where the leak is, and no pictures for a reference point, I'm just giving you an idea of how "typically" in-foam leaks are handled by "most" companies, your mileage may vary.
as far as panels are concerned I'm assuming this is a maintanence free cabinet? if it is they are usually pre-made panels that usually "snap" or are held on by some type of clips, some may have screws, some may not, pictures would help.
as far as removing foam, I've used the following but not limited to: large flat blade screwdriver, small pry bar, chisel, claw end of a hammer, your hands, etc. basically anything to scrape, pry and remove standard spray foam will work, if you need to remove it from a pipe, sandpaper, emery cloth, primer all seems to help.
-
Okay, I am not sure how to post pictures on here, so this will be difficult :(. All I can say is that it looks like the water is pouring directly down one of the sides, so it would seem like the easiest way to get access to it would be to tear off the wood as opposed to tipping it. Am I wrong? I believe the hot tub is actually a 2002 beachcomber, and it looks like real wood to me and in the manual they said to put "nu wood" on it, so I am assuming that's what it is. It looks like it's glued on to be honest.
-
Also, some more information i forgot to mention: The water drained down to about 1/3rd of the level of the big suction source at the bottom of the tub, however, the leak is on the direct opposite side of the tub. In this picture (same model, but not my pic) you can see the suction in the bottom right of the tub, well the leak is basically on the far left of the tub. When I loosened up the connections near the pumps a bunch more water left the tub, so I'm assuming this means the leak is near the bottom, but not as low as the pumps. One more thing: When I added water via the filter, it took what seemed like about a minute if not longer (i wasn't counting) for the water to start coming out the bottom. When I let the water drain out, then added more water into the jet that was closest to the leak i counted about 40 seconds. I let it drain, and then did this again but put the house directly into the suction entry (I unscrewed the filter) and then I counted about 10 seconds. So I'm assuming the suction loopss around the tub counter clockwise ,and then the leak would be right where the water stopped draining with respect to height, and should be located right above where it is pouring out of? What suprises me though, is that it took 10 seconds for the water to come out the tub when I put it into the suction, as I was expecting almost instanious, or at least less than 3 seconds. Maybe it takes time for it to get through the foam?
Also, I assume that the drain system is independent of the plumbing for the main pump/jets?
My plan: Peel off the wood with a hammer and chissel very carefully. Chizzle through the foam till I find the pipes, keep on adding water as I dig through more foam to keep on orienting myself towards the leak. Then I would hopefully find the busted pipe, chizzle out to where the next connection is, unscrew, replace the pipe, test connection for leaks, if all good: insulate, glue on panals.
Am I being realistic?
-
ALSO: When I say a third of the level of the suction, I mean the water level is 1/3rd up the suction opening. I found this interesting since I figured it would drain out through the entire suction tubing?
-
Here's a picture of the tub that I have: http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=beachcomber+580&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADFA_enCA483CA485&biw=1280&bih=791&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=NGJr2eq_kPsk_M:&imgrefurl=http://www.nassaupoolsandspas.com/hottubs.html&docid=J0p8C2phZZBVsM&imgurl=http://www.nassaupoolsandspas.com/images/beachcomber_580sml.jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=wvQKULqiNMmvqQH9oMGeCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=554&vpy=165&dur=297&hovh=160&hovw=160&tx=59&ty=95&sig=102852928735508696608&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=130&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:79 (http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=beachcomber+580&hl=en&sa=X&rlz=1T4ADFA_enCA483CA485&biw=1280&bih=791&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=NGJr2eq_kPsk_M:&imgrefurl=http://www.nassaupoolsandspas.com/hottubs.html&docid=J0p8C2phZZBVsM&imgurl=http://www.nassaupoolsandspas.com/images/beachcomber_580sml.jpg&w=200&h=200&ei=wvQKULqiNMmvqQH9oMGeCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=554&vpy=165&dur=297&hovh=160&hovw=160&tx=59&ty=95&sig=102852928735508696608&page=1&tbnh=136&tbnw=130&start=0&ndsp=24&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0,i:79)
(http://s12.postimage.org/zcrqn6r7h/hot_tub_image.jpg)
And here's a ms paint picture I made of my issue: This shows the suction drain where the water stopps leaking. The black pathway is what I am assuming the tub would have to be designed in order for my hypothesis to be correct (that the main return line from the main suction is leaking). However, logically I would think the main suction return would follow the red path. The blue spray shows the location of the leak with respect to everything else. I hope this helps.
You guys have been an amazing help so far, thanks again.
-
I think you might get a lot out of a visit by a pro. Talk to friends/relatives, or local dealers to get the name of an independent repair guy. Call him/her and ask if they are afraid of helping you find the leak, and then help steer you in the direction of fixing it yourself. If you get all that clear up front, you will weed out those who just want to come, glance and go - also those who want to talk you into spending thousands to get it all taken care of.
If you get someone out who had done this type of repair, they can be a real resource. First of all they will calm your fears ( I hope). Of course, if there is any chance of this being beyond help, they should be able to let you know and it will have been the best money you could every have spent. But these things rarely are that way - they will most likely poke around and make suggestions on how to prop it up, which way to start, what is most likely leaking, etc. Then they can save you a great deal of time and frustration by hopefully point you in the right direction before you dig out foam.
Also, you can ask them other questions about running it once it's fixed, and they can look at pumps, valves and other parts in the equipment box to see if there will be anything likely to need attention once you have it running and heating.
These things are just plastic with plastic plumbing, and I have fixed some with amazing leaks - admittedly, I don't get freeze damage here in California, but over the years I have successfully fixed plenty of leaky tubs damaged by rodents, cracked fittings, bad repairs by previous owners and other repairmen, etc. One way or another, I'm sure you'll be soaking in this thing and looking back with a smile.
8)
-
I'm not sure if there's an official way to post pics here, but you could always use a site like http://imgur.com/ to share what's going on. Really easy to create and share an album.
-
Hey, I have some GREAT news! I opened up about 8 pannels on the side and tore through the foam with my hands, and found the leak in about 30 seconds. It's a huge crack in the metal piece and the ceramic piece that it was attached to. The metal tube goes up the side of the tub and has a bunch of hoses attached to it, but the metal pipe doesn't seem to go anywhere, so I tihnk it's the main artery for the tubes that extend to the jets. I'll add some pictures a bit later on, but it sounds like it's apretty cheap fix from here on in, eh? I'm thinking it'd be like 2-400$ for a plumber. Thanks guys!
-
So here's an unfortuante update. I got the leak fixed by a repair guy, it only cost 125 with labour, so I was happy with that. I filled up the tub and noticed water pooling near the same spot as last time, as well as on the sides. The old leak seems like it is fixed. It looks like there are at least 2-3 more leaks based on the pooling of the water. My plan is to do this: Remove the entire skrit, pull the tub away from my deck, remove all of the foam insulation, until I expose everything and can determine ALL of the leaks. Then I will buy a foam sprayer, refoam it, and buy a new skirt to go around the tub. It's 10 years old so it can probably handle a new skirt. Is this the best idea?
-
The view is breathtaking and you want the home, but a prudent inspection of the plumbing system can affect how much you want it or how much you should be willing to offer for purchase. In addition to the normal checks needed to explore the condition of the plumbing system, the salt water and humidity that comes in tandem with beachfront property introduces a whole new set of possible problems.