Hot Tub Forum
Brand Specific Forums => Jacuzzi Hot Tubs => Topic started by: Spinner71 on December 05, 2010, 02:44:07 pm
-
Hello All,
I am so disappointed with my Hottub... The company I bought to from now is out of business and the service contract went to another dealer. They have been helpful replacing my curc pump 5 times in the last 6 months. I keep getting the FL1 error. This shuts off my heater and now with winter coming I am a little worried. They say the cerc pump keeps getting clogged and I have ran every known cleaner I was told to use to clean the pipes. I replaced the water and everything runs fine for a few weeks and again last night the FL1 is back. The filters are only 3 months old I clean them every 10 days. I took out the filters and I dont feel any suction on the side with the grill on. I do feel suction on the other side. I turned off the hottub for 20 min and the FL1 is still on?
Please help anyone...
Cheers
Jason
-
I'm no expert on HT, in fact I don't even have mine yet. but if you have a wet dry vac can you try to suck out the blockage? Or use (regulated) compressed air to blow it out? I'd start at say 10-20PSI. I'd also disconnect the circ pump and check for blockages at the inlet of the pump. Good luck.
-
Yeah I have tried all that... I guess Im looking for any info on how to clean the pipes. I dont think they products I have used are getting all the calcium or lime off the walls of the pipes. When they replace the pump it gets clogged again and shuts down the heater.
Thanks for your input
Jason
-
Oh ok. you have calcium deposits in the plumbing lines. I never would thought that would be an issue. :o How about a snake? (http://www.faucetdepot.com/product-images/Flexible-Plumbertool-PH-4-Handy-Snake-House-Only.jpg) If the pigtail end is to big you can flip it around and use the other side, its a 1/4" snake so that should go thru the system.
You may want to try some CLR. http://www.thecarycompany.com/containers/facility/clr-multisurface.html?gclid=CObEo6yx2KUCFRJY2godOQ3tng
Just thinkn.....
When I cleaned HVAC lines of deposits we used diluted acid pumped thru the coils. I'm not sure how a HT's sytem would like that. But being mostly plastic it might be ok.
-
Yeah I have tried all that... I guess Im looking for any info on how to clean the pipes. I dont think they products I have used are getting all the calcium or lime off the walls of the pipes. When they replace the pump it gets clogged again and shuts down the heater.
Thanks for your input
Jason
I sent you a PM> Jim
-
If the problem is calcium/lime, you have a water balance/chemistry issue. Please outline your water components (pH, calcium hardness, alkalinity), and what things you add regularly, including sanitizer. Cleaning calcium/scale from pipes requires running a low pH level for a period of time, to get it back into solution.
-
will do when I get back from a business trip thanks for your input
-
I don't know how old your system is but 5 circ pumps in 6 months indicates they might be treating the symptom and not the actual problem. Apparently the "new" circ pumps work for a period of time to resolve the problem when initially replaced 5 different times. How long did the first circ pump work? The question becomes what is restricting the water flow?
POSSIBLE scenario 1) The circ system is using a 3/4" flexible vinyl hose. The hose has been in service for sometime now and the warm temperature of the water could have caused the line to "kink" in a "tight bend" as the warm vinyl softened and kinked restricting water flow capacity producing a "flo" message. The inability to move water could burn the pumps out, but the flo restriction is causing the problem or the symptom to occur. The service people should be looking for something like this especially after replacing 5 pumps in 6 months.
POSSIBLE senario #2) You mentioned the lack of suction at the grid dedicated to the circ pump, so this is not likely but worth mentioning, leaves, or debris covering grid restricting flow. This should have been obvious when checking the grid before.
POSSIBLE scenario #3) A bad flow switch, but not likely, they should have picked up on that in the first service call. "No suction at the grid" indicates the symptom causing your problem. It is NOT the circ pump.
Have they been charging you for this service or the pumps?
-
I left you a msg but you never called back? Anyway I am guessing if it indeed is calcium, it's possible the heater tube itself is building up with it as well and the circ pump is working harder to push through it and burning up the motor on the circ pmp. As mentioned you have gone through way to many pumps in that amount of time for the pump to be the problem.
Possible there is a kink in the circ pump line from the filter or past the heater going back into the spa.
-
Hey Jim,
Just called you.. sorry I was out of country last week.
So the company now says it refuses to replace the pump anymore... blaming me on water conditions.
I am confused due the fact the water has been replaced 3 times in 2 months. The tub has been used 4 times in that time frame. I aways test weekly and everything looks to be good.
-
Hello All,
thanks to everyone who reponded..
The service tech just came by and he is saying the my pipes are causing the pump to get clogged producing the FL1 error and shutting down my heater. I dont understand considering I have used everything the store told me to use over the years. My water is not hard... Does any body know how to clean the pipes any better. I have changed my water 3 times in 2 months
Cheers
Jason
-
... Does any body know how to clean the pipes any better? ...
Perhaps. Your water chemistry info, would be needed.
-
Hello All,
thanks to everyone who reponded..
The service tech just came by and he is saying the my pipes are causing the pump to get clogged producing the FL1 error and shutting down my heater. I dont understand considering I have used everything the store told me to use over the years. My water is not hard... Does any body know how to clean the pipes any better. I have changed my water 3 times in 2 months
Cheers
Jason
IF it is your pipes, it IS a KINK, calcium is NOT an option that is going to do this to 5 out of 6 circ pumps which could be easily demonstrated to you by simply opening the pump up to examine the internal part. Either they don't know, or understand the logic of what they are doing, or you should call Sundance Customer Service for a "resolution", after all it IS their product and their warranty.
You have not indicated any response to my previous posting. Have you investigated anything about this issue yourself, or are you totally dependent upon them to find the solution? How old is your spa?
Also see my post to same problem in a similar problem. This is the SIMPLE logic of water flow. NO water flow to "close" the switch, you have a "Flo" issue. I don't understand how they can say it is something else, "your pipes" without fixing the root cause of the problem and providing sufficient water flow..
-
So he opened the pump and I can see the substance inside the pump. it's soaked to the walls and he says is calcium.
I will take a picture and send it next week. he says it not teh flow swicth or I would be getting an FL2 error not 1
-
The flow switch is only the messenger, and yes there are 2 seperate messages that it will trigger, when it dosen't close, and when it dosen't open. However, it is beyond belief that you can have 5 out of 6 circ pumps disabled by calcium in such a short time frame. Where do you live, Salt Flats? I do hope you have addressed the issue of your water chemistry. What have they suggested you do to clean and clear the other pumps, the plumbing and the heater? Your shell must be a mess, what is the accumulation in/on the filter?
What they are suggesting is that the calcium is accumulating so fast in the circ pumps as they replace them that it is restricting water flow causing the circ pump to fail, thus causing the "flo" message to occur. In 28 years this would be the first time I've heard this one.
Best of luck, it seems you have a handle on the problem, it has been resolved, and you have it under control.
BTW, do you use, or have you used any "BaquaSpa" products, and/or do you have an ozonator on your system??
-
After talking with Jason on the phone it really makes no sense as to whats going on, by what he describes to me there are chunks/psc of calcium that are clogging up the circ pump impeller. I think what might be happening is that calcium is breaking loose from the line and collecting in the circ pump impeller. I told him to drop his PH to as low as he can to maybe solve the problem and get rid of the build up. Whats strange is where the calcium originally is coming from to start with he doesn't use calcium increaser and is on city water.
Usually with calcium build up the walls/sides of the spa will be really rough to the touch "sand paper" like, he has none if this? Another thing is the line that runs from the filter to the circ pump is maybe 6 feet long, so the calcium has to be coming from that line. He is using bromine with the Jacuzzi inline bromine feeder that fits in the lid of the filter, possible chunks of bromine breaking loose and lodging in the pump is doubt full, it would have to get through the screen psc the filter screws into. I told him to switch to a chlorine system and see what happens, worse case Jason which I didn't mention is maybe the spa company can come out and replace the circ pump hose from the filter it wouldn't take much to do that.
Good luck with it Jason and feel free to call me anytime! Jim
-
Thanks for the insight JJ. That being said, the circ line is 3/4", I would suggest simply pulling the circ pump, using a plug stopper at both the suction screen in the filter bay, and the heater (3/4" vinyl short cut with plug), then inserting a 1/2" or 3/8" piece of vinyl tubing going to the suction screen and examine what comes out. I doubt you are going to find anything of significance, but it would tell the story of what is in that line.
-
Tell ya whats IDIOTIC? Its the spa company that's been repairing the tub, the dealer he bought from I guess went under and it's a Sundance dealer that's working on it. After the second pump replaced went bad a good tech should/would work the problem as to why, not just replace the pump and tell him his water is bad,specially after what they replaced it 4 or 5 times ::) Then tell him if another goes bad were not replacing it. ???
Alex. Ill take spa service 101 for 200!
Jason feel free to print this thread out and take it to the dealer!! ;D
Good idea Clover.
-
Yes I have to wonder...
So my shell is perfect...and my fliters are great! I know its doesnt sound right but they are.
I have now taken Jacuzzi Jim and believe you. I have dropped my PH and will wait a few days cycling through the pipes.
Hopefully that will liquify the calcium. I will then drain the tub and flip over to clorine instead of bromine and use qua finess.
-
Spinner, identify, what is "qua finess"
-
Hey Guys..
So if you have a second look up WWW.aquafinesse.com it will explain it better than I can
Its basically a chlorine system I believe... and keeps everything balanced
Just one dose per week cleans and balances your water, eliminates greasy water lines, slimy surfaces, foaming, calcium and scale build-up.
-
More info
What is AquaFinesse?
AquaFinesse is a natural, environmentally friendly water treatment system. Although it is important to note that AquaFinesse itself is not a sanitiser, it does play a vitally important role in the control of bacteria. To understand how AquaFinesse works we must first understand the real cause of bacterial contamination -Biofilm!
What is Biofilm?
Biofilm is a sticky slimy substance that is created by bacteria for use as a safe shelter, feeding and breeding ground.
Bacteria enter the water via many various sources, not least bathers. Needing somewhere safe, bacteria create a slime which enables them to stick to any damp surface area. (In you pool or spa this could mean the walls, steps, filter housing, jets and favorite of all, the pipe work) Once attached they are able to quickly form colonies.
Biofilm is designed to protect the bacteria within, and it does an excellent job. So much so that it is virtually impossible for traditional sanitisers such as chlorine or bromine to penetrate it. Even large quantities of sanitiser can only kill the bacteria in the outer layer of the Biofilm leaving the bacteria below unharmed and able to continue multiplying!
FACTDid you know that 99% of all bacteria live in the Biofilm, just 1% actually live in the water itself and it is only these so called 'free floating' bacteria that we are able to kill with traditional sanitiser's such as chlorine or bromine!!
How does AquaFinesse work?
The moment AquaFinesse's patented formula is added to the water it begins the process of breaking down and loosening the Biofilm from surfaces. With no shelter to protect them, bacteria are exposed and vulnerable. It is now a simple task to destroy them with a minimum amount of sanitiser.
Bathers reentering the water will of course still introduce fresh bacteria, however now everything is different. No longer able to 'stick' these bacteria are quickly coagulated by AquaFinesse's patented technology and washed into the filter system where a small amount of sanitiser rapidly dispatches them!
-
Spinner, I have asked a few questions that remain unanswered. I must assume that you have not used, nor currently using BazuaSpa products
-
I have not even heard of that product. But I do live in Canada and not sure they sell them.
I use spa boss
-
Spinner, sometimes it is hard for us to hit the nail on the head because we don't know the untold secrets. Now we add "Spa Boss" to the mix. I have asked a few questions that remain unanswered. I will assume that you have not used, nor currently using BaquaSpa products which are INCOMPATIBLE with any other chemical outside of their product line.
I must admit at this point, we have not found the root cause to your problem in spite of our efforts to help, nor have I had any feed back as to whether you are using an ozonator, so I must leave you to the seek the solution to your problem through your at hand service resources.
Aquafinesse, referred to as "qua finess" didn't not identify anything in a google search. Now, armed with "aquafinesse", I can tell you it is a (Green) product out of the Netherlands. I do not know how long you have used it, (before, or after you began experiencing problems) but, I can tell you, people that have used BaquaSpa products along with other innocent chemicals have experienced extreme frustration similar to yours. Baqua products have the ability to make your water into "jello" IF you do not use ALL BaquaSpa products exclusively, making you a captured consumer.
I too have had to tell a customer to pay my unexpected bill because he has inflicted his own problems in using the product. It didn't make friends with my customer, but he was causing the problem and blaming us. Yes, sometimes it is the customers fault. Something like this IS NOT covered under a warranty. I too have replaced multiple circ pumps that were jammed with goo. OF COURSE THEY FAULTED THE PRODUCT, AND OUR IMCOMPETENCE. Sometimes, you have to fire the customer. These are the lessons we have learned.
I have attempted to make several suggestions to you without clarifying or understanding what is truly causing your unusual problem without feedback. But, I will guarantee you this, it is not the fault of the circ pump.
-
Clover,
I know you have been trying to help. But, it appears you have not been reading the responses. He uses bromine. Has made no mention of using BaquaSpa. He is planning to use AquaFinesse. He has not used it yet.
-
I thought I was answering your questions.. Sorry I do appreciate your help.
So..
I have been using bromine...
BaquaSpa" products I have never heard of so no I dont use them.
I do not have an ozonator on my system.
Spa Boos is a series on chemicals Sundance sells.PH REDUCER, Bromine Tables, Spa shock, etc...
Aquafinesse is what i will changing over to after tomorrow. I have currenty trying to liquify the calcium in my system by dropping my PH.
I will then drain the water refill the tub and move onto chlorine system with aquafinesse
Cheers
Jason