Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Mike Lambert on May 04, 2010, 01:01:26 pm
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Hi,
My wife and I are looking for our first hot tub and based on what dealers we have in the area and how poor some of them are, we have gotten our list down to the following. I welcome any opinions or comments on the brands and models. We are hoping to keep this under $8000.
Jacuzzi - J355 or J365 - found out that the local dealer doesn't service them, they hire certified Jacuzzi repair guys. Not sure if thats good or bad but other than that the dealer seems good.
Arctic - The Cub, signature level. Really like the dealer, and the product seems really nice. The dealer does the service so thats good. But,I have read some of the bad comments about Arctic so not sure. Also, the price on this may push it out of our budget.
Caldera - Tahitian. Same dealer as the Arctic so would have no problems with that. Still waiting for pricing info, but nice looking tub and fits us well.
Dynasty - Liberty. The dealer does the service and seems good. Just not sure about the brand and if its a good quality tub. I've read some reviews and seems like some people have problems with them and the HP ratings on their pumps. Even the dealer told us that they are a newer company and have had problems, but said that's all behind them. For the money it seems like you get a lot of extras, like audio, but then I wonder if the quality of the main components goes down to compensate for the difference.
Sundance - ??. This is the last place we need to visit and look at. From what I know about the dealer, seems good. Any thoughts?
We haven't wet tested any of them yet but hoping to this week and weekend. My wife has shoulder and feet problems and I have had back problems so this started out as more of a therapy purchase but want something the whole family can enjoy.
Thanks, Mike
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Arctic, Caldera and Sundance are all good brands IMO so get quotes and check them out to see what you think of the dealer and their products. Jacuzzi is good as well, its best to have a dealer that does the service in house but if he's using a well trained outside service who is getting the parts through that dealer and being reimbursed through that dealer then that can be fine too though it may be a tie-breaker down the line if you are torn on which to get. I don't know Dynasty as well but you already know about the nebulous HP ratings so ignore that. I'm not sure what problems they are referring to, I'd see how long he's been with them and what those problems were (they will always say the problems are in the past). Just tread lightly at this point and wet test when you are ready, that will tell you a lot.
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Good luck with starting your search. Wet Test!!
Now as an Arctic Spa Dealer what other options are you looking at, reason why I ask is you might be able to get the spa price down a bit. But I guess i have to ask what area are you in? Are you in Canada or US?
What bad comments have you hear? Maybe I can help clear up some of your concerns. Example our jets used to pop out. Jets were fully warrantied. The newest version of our jets (almost 2 years). We have not seen these pop out. The fixed tab and screw in style do not pop out like the flexible tab jet.
Good luck with your search!
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The jets popping out was the biggest problem that I read about and the dealer also mentioned it but said that it has been fixed. We are in Wisconsin so insulation and energy efficency is important to us and that's what lead us to Arctic and their unique way of insulating the cabinet. Any opinions on that? Seems like a good idea not sure how much it actually saves in energy cost but still couldn't hurt.
As for options, my wife wants a lounge seat and at least some LED lighting and water features. I would think something around 7' x 7' would be enough. At this point I'm not limited on actual size because I'm going to build a patio to fit. Overall I just want a good quality tub that works when we want it to and gets fixed fast when theres a problem. How hard can that be to find? ;D
Thanks for the information so far.
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Mike-
Did you see the new design of the screw in jet? It works quite nicely! I'm happier than our customers that the jet problem has been resolved! We have had zero warranty calls on this screw in jet! Yes, the insulation works quite well. My store is at 9000 feet in Dillon, CO and we deliver spas to over 12,000 feet. The way we insulate also allows for upgrading. Example the Onzen salt system that came out a few years ago can be added to any Arctic Spa that was purchased prior to the release date.
The Cub is the way to go as it's a very comfortable tub. I have the Kodiak (the 8' version of the Cub) in my back yard. I have tried all the models but I always go back to the Kodiak.
Good luck and let me know if you have more questions.
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As for options, my wife wants a lounge seat and at least some LED lighting and water features. I would think something around 7' x 7' would be enough. At this point I'm not limited on actual size because I'm going to build a patio to fit. Overall I just want a good quality tub that works when we want it to and gets fixed fast when theres a problem. How hard can that be to find? ;D
Thanks for the information so far.
Wet testing a spa is always wise but when a lounge is involved it is doubly wise. Lounge seats do not fit everyone the same and it has nothing to do with the brand so if anyone says "yes but our lounge is designed to fit many sizes and avoid floating" understand that what works for one person won't necessarily work for another. MANY people get a lounge with their first spa and find its not all they expected and don't get one the second time around. I think this is less an indictment on lounges specifcially as much as it is that people simply assume the one that looks/feels good dry will be just as good wet. I've seen 2 similarly sized people wet test a spa where one says the lounge is great while the other doesn't like it.
I'm personally a fan of Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis & Sundance so you are looking at good brands IMO and Arctic & Dynasty have ardent followers on this site as well. You should be fine if you concentrate on the dealer and how comfortable you are that he'll be there after the sale (how long in business, how long with that brand, etc.), the ever important wet test and of course what kind of deal can you get along with what is included (get a cover lifter for sure).
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Hi,
Dynasty - Liberty. The dealer does the service and seems good. Just not sure about the brand and if its a good quality tub. I've read some reviews and seems like some people have problems with them and the HP ratings on their pumps. Even the dealer told us that they are a newer company and have had problems, but said that's all behind them. For the money it seems like you get a lot of extras, like audio, but then I wonder if the quality of the main components goes down to compensate for the difference.
Define newer? My tub just turned 7 years old, I know they have been around at least 10. I don't regret my purchase. The HP ratings aren't a problem per sey, as long as your aware. HP ratings aside, I get more power to my sore aching muscles in my tub than any other tub I have been in.
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Thank you all for your comments!
Let me try and reply to some of your questions. I have looked at the new jets on the Arctic and they seem muc better and everyone I've talked to agrees. So that's not really a concern. I got a quote on the Cub, signature level of $9660. Does that seem reasonable?
With lounger, we completely agree with the wet test. We could tell some would not fit us well just sitting in them dry, but we have some wet tests scheduled tonight and this weekend so we can decide for sure which ones work for us.
I honestly don't know when the Dynasty company started making theses tubs, that's just what the dealer told us. One of the wet tests is the Dynasty Liberty so we will see how it fits us. How are your electricty costs with the larger pumps? Or is this just a misleading number and the pumps aren't that much different than all the others out there?
Here are the prices we have been quoted. They all include a cover, lifter, steps, startup chemicals, delivery and the Sundance includes the GFCI panel. The Dynasty Liberty has the audio but none of the others do. Does these seem reasonable?
Arctic Cub: $9660
Caldera Tahitian: $8400 (floor model)
Jacuzzi J355: $8600
Dynasty Liberty: $6200
Sundance Hamilton: $8650
Thanks,
Mike
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The Dynasty is at a lower cost with all the extras because quality cost money.
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Does the price for the Cub Signature come with some other options? Like the Onzen system for example?
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The jets popping out was the biggest problem that I read about and the dealer also mentioned it but said that it has been fixed.
Ahh, yes, I experienced that as well. Those were Waterway's jets also used by Coast and a few others. I remember a few popping out, the dealer gave me another one and it solved the problem.
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Yes the arctic has the ozone. The Caldera does as well. I'm not sure about the other ones. I'll have to check.
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Personally I'd go with the Caldera, Jacuzzi or Sundance (I can't put Dynasty with those 3 despite the savings and I couldn't pay $1000 more for an Arctic cub though that's just me) but in the end make sure your quotes are apples to apples. Have them quote ozone on all of them and include the subpanel cost on each if its not coming with the spa (should be standard on Caldera though you indicated Sundance as well). Then ignore small price differences, factor in dealer confidence, wet test all your finalists (preferably on the same day or at least same weekend) and get the spa that fits/feels best.
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I got a quote on the Cub, signature level of $9660. Does that seem reasonable?
Mike,
What part of Wisconsin are you located?
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Hi Mike,
Have you had a chance to check out the Jacuzzi models yet (wet test)? I just purchased my tub this weekend, and after wet-testing a HS Grandee, Sundance Maxxus and Optima, Arctic Tundra and Beachcomber 750 we ended up going with 2010 Jacuzzi J-480 (floor model so we got a bit of a discount). I noticed that you mentioned that your wife wants a lounger. Depending on how tall she is/you are (if you are taller than 5'11 it might be too small), the lounger in the 480 was our favourite. Good luck with your search, I know it can take some time...
p.s. Does the Arctic dealer you've visited have a floor model of the new Arctic "Ocean". Talk about MASSIVE!
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After some wet tests this weekend I'm leaning towards the Caldera. The only real problem I had was trying to figure out the diverters and which one worked what seats but I would imagine over time this wouldn't be much of a problem. We wet tested the Niagara but they have a floor model of the Geneva that we really liked. Unfortunetly my wife like the Dynasty better. Not sure what to do now. We have ruled out the Artic, not because its not a great tub, just because of the price compared to the others. We have already expanded our budget as we have been looking and just can't go any more. I was also wrong with the Dynasty, it is $7700.
I kind of ruled out Jacuzzi because the dealer doesn't do their own service work and they "don't really wet test". They only had a 480 to test and didn't really sound that thrilled with us doing it. That hot tub doesn't have any of the same features or jet layouts of the 355 that we were considering so I'm not sure it's worth it. When i asked them if they can fill the 355 on the floor, I just felt like I was bothering them and figured it's not worth it. It's too bad, I really like the Jacuzzi, but wanted to wet test before we spent all that money.
Leisureguy, I'm from Manitowoc. Why do you ask?
As for the Dynasty, the wet test wasn't bad. Jets seemed powerful, the layout was nice, the controls were nice. I'm not sure about the lack of a circ pump with ozone, or the overall quality of the tub but like I said my wife really liked it. One thing I was concerned about was the speakers were on the raised ridge along the back of the tub and I was wondering how the cover fit in that area and if it really seals all that well because of it. The sales guy said its not a problem, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have one of these tubs with the speakers? How does the cover fit? Is this a problem?
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
Mike
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As for the Dynasty, the wet test wasn't bad. Jets seemed powerful, the layout was nice, the controls were nice. I'm not sure about the lack of a circ pump with ozone, or the overall quality of the tub but like I said my wife really liked it. One thing I was concerned about was the speakers were on the raised ridge along the back of the tub and I was wondering how the cover fit in that area and if it really seals all that well because of it. The sales guy said its not a problem, but I'm not sure. Does anyone have one of these tubs with the speakers? How does the cover fit? Is this a problem?
Thank you all for your comments and suggestions.
Mike
I can't speak for the cover, it will add to the replacement cost of future covers. Since your limited in your budget have you thought about dropping the stereo and going for more tub? Many people find they don't use the stereo as much as they thought and I am one of those, we prefer peace and quiet most of the time, or we prefer to hear our conversation and frequently at night we are without suits so we don't want to draw attention to ourselves. The true power of the jets is a big plus in my opinion for the Dynasty and it was our big selling point for us 7 years ago and would be a factor in future decisions. Forgetting whatever any manufacture claims for horsepower ratings, my effective mass
As for the lack of a circ pump and ozone, ozone can be added by the dealer, and maybe dropping the stereo might make that an even wash :). As for the circ pump. It may be a good thing to have, but not having it doesn't make a tub junk. I've been very successful in keeping my water clean for 3-4 months at a time without one.
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The Dynasty had the ozone included in the price of $7700, that also includes the stereo. Without the stereo it would be $7000. Since I could put my own in for much less than that, I'm thinking no stereo option would best if we do get the Dynasty.
I definetly don't think any of these tubs are junk. At this point I'm thinking no matter which one I get, I will have a great tub that will last many years. I tend to over anaylze all big purchases and since this is more of luxury than others (cars, home) it makes it that much harder.
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We wet tested the Niagara but they have a floor model of the Geneva that we really liked. Unfortunetly my wife like the Dynasty better. Not sure what to do now.
I'd concentrate on dealer confidence (how long in business, how long with this brand, how long have they serviced spas and this brand, will he be there for you after the sale, what approach they take in trying to make the sale, etc.), what kind of package deal you can get, manufacturer warranty and confidence they'll back it, wet test results, aesthetics, etc.
My thought is I'd get the Caldera between those two but being married I know ignoring my wife on a purchase like this could have lasting effects lol.
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My thought is I'd get the Caldera between those two but being married I know ignoring my wife on a purchase like this could have lasting effects lol.
Amen! I just bought a 55" Samsung LED TV with internet capability. I wanted the Sony and my wife wanted the Samsung. Love the Samsung, accept they advertised it as having a Netflix application to stream directly to the TV. Turns out they only had the license for their Blue Ray player, not the TV. The application may never work. I can surf youtube videos from my set and stream movies from another provider, but as a Netflix owner, I'm a little ticked over that.
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It's nice to know that I'm not the only one having these issues. Maybe I can sweet talk her into wanting the Caldera. ;D
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That's a real shame that the Jacuzzi dealer wasn't willing to let you wet test different models - I don't blame you from walking away from them - I would too! Just goes to show you how important it is to have a good product AND a good dealer to assist you. In my case the Jacuzzi dealer/tubs were the BEST out of them all (for us) and they filled a J-470 for me to try since I wasn't sure about the 480 or 470. The west test made my decision easy afterward (they even were pouring me cold bottled water to drink while I was in the tubs LOL - now that's service). That being said I'm sure you'll find a tub you are happy with in the end - good luck!
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That Jacuzzi dealer was an idiot plain and simple!
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I do wish the Jacuzzi dealer would have been better. Honestly we were days away from putting money down on one until we visited some of the other dealers and saw what they had. I still might call and ask one last time if they can fill a different tub and see what happens, just so I know I'm doing the right thing by excluding them. Who knows.
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So after looking at everything again we are just about ready to go ahead with the Caldera Geneva. I was quoted $8200 which includes the cover, lifter, steps, ozone, startup chemicals, delivery, and GFCI panel. This is a floor model so he said I'm getting it for less than normal. Would you say this is a fair price? Looking through my notes I'm pretty sure its a 2009 but I'm not sure. I'll have to double check.
Comments?
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That is a great price on a Geneva. Even if it is an '09. There were really not any changes from '09 to '10 so they are the same spa.
Congrats on the purchase!!
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I think you made a great choice, Caldera is a good brand, enjoy your new hot tub, nice to see your process of your purchase,
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Welcome to "Spatopia"!!!
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So after looking at everything again we are just about ready to go ahead with the Caldera Geneva. I was quoted $8200 which includes the cover, lifter, steps, ozone, startup chemicals, delivery, and GFCI panel. This is a floor model so he said I'm getting it for less than normal. Would you say this is a fair price? Looking through my notes I'm pretty sure its a 2009 but I'm not sure. I'll have to double check.
Comments?
Congrats and IMO you did well for that spa at that price. Personally I'd rather pay $8200 for a 2009 floor model than probably about $1000 more for a 2010 version where nothing appreciably changed.
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Good brand and great price ;D. I also got a "floor model" when purchasing my Jacuzzi spa and got a bit better price. Plus you don't have to wait a month for the dealer to order you one, which is nice too! Hope the install goes well - congrats! :D
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It's official, we put money down on it last night. Since it is a floor model they said they could deliver it within 2 weeks. Too bad I need to build a patio first. Anyone here have their spa on pavers instead of concrete slab? Thoughts, opinions? We might put a gazebo or pergola over it someday so I'm leaning towards a slab so I don't have to worry about footings, but man is it expensive.
Thanks to you all for helping me with my questions and concerns.
Mike
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If you're going to get a gazebo later a slab is the way to go, as gazebos need a flat level surface. Talk to the dealer. Make sure it wont void the warranty to put the tub on pavers, but it may not.
Just and FYI with an Arctic Spa's forever floor you can put the spa right on the grass/dirt/pavers or any flat level surface.
Good luck!
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It's official, we put money down on it last night. Since it is a floor model they said they could deliver it within 2 weeks. Too bad I need to build a patio first. Anyone here have their spa on pavers instead of concrete slab? Thoughts, opinions? We might put a gazebo or pergola over it someday so I'm leaning towards a slab so I don't have to worry about footings, but man is it expensive.
Thanks to you all for helping me with my questions and concerns.
Mike
Certainly a concrete pad is best and its not an arm and a leg but its not $50 either. As long as the ground is prepared well pavers work fine IMO as does a simple frame made of PT wood, painted black and filled with pea gravel (IMO).
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So far I only got back one quote but it was for $760 for a 9' x 9' x 5" slab. That's over $9 a square foot. I was expecting a lot less, maybe $3 or $4 per square foot. I guess I'll wait and see what the others come in at.
The dealer has confirmed that pavers would work but I would really prefer the slab for the future gazebo.
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So far I only got back one quote but it was for $760 for a 9' x 9' x 5" slab. That's over $9 a square foot. I was expecting a lot less, maybe $3 or $4 per square foot. I guess I'll wait and see what the others come in at.
The dealer has confirmed that pavers would work but I would really prefer the slab for the future gazebo.
That looks like a pretty good price imo. I doubt you would find any cheaper than that.
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So far I only got back one quote but it was for $760 for a 9' x 9' x 5" slab. That's over $9 a square foot. I was expecting a lot less, maybe $3 or $4 per square foot. I guess I'll wait and see what the others come in at.
The dealer has confirmed that pavers would work but I would really prefer the slab for the future gazebo.
Problem is you run into minimum sizes. It costs the contractor just as much in labor and and minimum concrete prices for a 9x9 as it might for a larger pad. You should ask about minimums. If you are below his minimum, then maybe there is something else you could do to get to his minimum. Say, like add a walkway.
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So far I only got back one quote but it was for $760 for a 9' x 9' x 5" slab. That's over $9 a square foot. I was expecting a lot less, maybe $3 or $4 per square foot. I guess I'll wait and see what the others come in at.
The dealer has confirmed that pavers would work but I would really prefer the slab for the future gazebo.
Problem is you run into minimum sizes. It costs the contractor just as much in labor and and minimum concrete prices for a 9x9 as it might for a larger pad. You should ask about minimums. If you are below his minimum, then maybe there is something else you could do to get to his minimum. Say, like add a walkway.
The contractor I called basically confirmed this. He did give me a substancial break in price if I could have a 2 week delivery window and he would add me onto another job that would come up, which he did and I still had the pad down in time for the tub. My slab is 10' x 10 ft, can't remember now if I went 4 or 5" deep.