Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: stuart on January 22, 2009, 08:03:38 pm
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So I've just spent the last 30 minuets on the phone with a woman that was hostile because she has to pay a trip fee on a spa that is 45 miles away and is not getting over 95 degrees.
First off, she was told about the trip fee at purchase, second it's in her warranty, third my best guess is that if the spa is heating to 95 she's doing something wrong anyway(usually if it heats at all without error codes it's an operator error).
In my conversation with her she first told me that she never had a problem with her 10 year old hotspring then later told me that when they came out on service with her hotspring she never paid a trip fee. :-/ I asked her before I hung up why she traded it and she said it was because it had more problems than were worth fixing. :-?
At that point I reaffirmed that she did indeed have service calls on it and let her know that I actually sold her that spa 10 years ago. I also explained that I was making the exact same amount from the factory on warranty that I made 10 years ago even though insurance, wages, fuel, vehicles and generally everything went up since then except my reimbursement from the factory. I also explained that I agreed it was unfair that we had to charge a trip fee but the factory put the increased costs back in my lap by not increasing warranty rates.
Finally I pointed out that she paid over $8500 for her spa 10 years earlier and only paid $5000 for this new one. She still never got it and just relented to pay the trip fee while she continued to ramble.
Funny, I just wrote an article this week, for Spa Retailer, on finding new revenue streams to stay afloat in a down economy and referenced charging trip fees.
It really is unfair if you think about it.... when I had my cancer surgery I was shocked but the incidental charges on my bill including a $250 charge for a syringe. This last week I took my puppy to get spayed and a $37 bill inflated to $189 with incidental charges. The operation was included in the pound fees but that didn't cover IV, anesthesia, collar, heart/liver check while under and disposal material after.
Look at your phone bill or cable bill and see all the extra charges that weren't there in your monthly service quote when you signed up yet we're evil for charging a trip fee under warranty! >:(
I can’t be more upfront than to tell people when they are purchasing the spa!
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Stu, Everything you said makes sense but i know as a consumer, I was shocked when I was charged a trip fee when it really is the manufacturer that should be standing behind their product and eating that cost. That should not be the dealer nor the consumer who should have to pay a charge to rectify a problem.....unless it is something the consumer caused..whats the point of a warranty if you as a consumer has to pay for a problem to be rectified. I am not sure how other hot tub manufacturers deal with it. I tend to think Watkins has a good track record with their quality and hopefully their not making a ton of warranty trips out.
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Stu, Everything you said makes sense but i know as a consumer, I was shocked when I was charged a trip fee when it really is the manufacturer that should be standing behind their product and eating that cost. That should not be the dealer nor the consumer who should have to pay a charge to rectify a problem.....unless it is something the consumer caused..whats the point of a warranty if you as a consumer has to pay for a problem to be rectified. I am not sure how other hot tub manufacturers deal with it. I tend to think Watkins has a good track record with their quality and hopefully their not making a ton of warranty trips out.
Don't kid yourself...Watkins has as many service calls as anyone but they are good at training and encouraging dealers in handling them. See that's the key from the manufacture...not ticking the customer off and then the service calls go down as just a hiccup. If you create pain then the customer will yell!
Again, you pay a service fee above and beyond on just about everything you do...Your cable bills, your phone bill, extra disposal fees when you get your oil changed and so on.
How about this, most of us pay insurance every month at a pricey premium yet when we go to the Dr. we have to pay a ”Co-pay". Maybe our problem with the spa industry is nomenclature...maybe we should just call it a "Co-pay" and people would blindly pay it like they do on medical.
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The key here is it would be nice as an industry to not be lumped in with insurance companies. I dont think we want that.
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You don't have a warranty on the phone service, and if the phone goes dead because of something that happens on the phone companies end, they don't charge a trip fee. Doctors don't have warranties, nor do operations and the associated upcharges.
war·ran·ty (wôrn-t, wr-)
n. pl. war·ran·ties
1. Official authorization, sanction, or warrant.
2. Justification or valid grounds for an act or a course of action.
3. Law
a. An assurance by the seller of property that the goods or property are as represented or will be as promised.
b. The insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep the contract effective.
c. A covenant by which the seller of land binds himself or herself and his or her heirs to defend the security of the estate conveyed.
d. A judicial writ; a warrant.
4. A[glow] guarantee given to the purchaser by a company stating that a product is reliable and free from known defects and that the seller will, without charge, repair or replace defective parts within a given time limit and under certain conditions.[/glow]
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/warranty
People buy new tubs to get the warranty so there will be fewer surprises, right?
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We have never charged a trip fee for a warranty service call, even when gas was four dollars a gallon. Some dealers do and some dealers don't, but I always make a point to tell customers that are shopping for spas that we don’t, and that alone makes it worth it for some when it is close between two brands of spas. No trip fees makes them all very happy! :D
I personally feel that if a person spends 6-12k on a hot tub, and it has a warranty, there shouldn't be fees or trip charges, but that is just my belief.
I can understand why Stuart and other dealers on here charge their fees. But, must customers don't care about dealer expenses, they only want their spa fixed.
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I am sure Stuart would not have charged the consumer a fee if they brought the spa to him.
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The bottom line is this...Most manufactures pay $40-$70 for a warranty service. This doesn't include the time it takes to get to the sight, the hours involved in reconciling the paperwork, boxing parts and shipping them, stocking parts, running to supply store for glue and plumbing and certainly doesn't include extra time on the job for draining, moving the spa or even getting into the problem and troubleshooting.
As I stated before, everything has gone up substantially...insurance, gas, wages and so on but spas have not. In fact to be more specific, margins have gone down over the years and wholesale has inched up. Where we used to be able to cover some of the cost of warranty calls in the sale price of the spa, we can't now days.
Spas have also gotten much more complicated and troubleshooting is a whole different animal. An example of that would be an error code on a D1 bay series...there are 3 to 4 circuit boards talking with up to 5 pumps (including circ pumps) and a mass of wires. Not only that these pumps and boards are not behind the same panel so your pulling the whole cabinet apart sometimes to find a problem. A $50 service reimbursement doesn't begin to cover this.
Don't get me wrong...I love the challenge of some of these calls however, dealers are going broke sometimes supporting manufacture issues.
I would agree that manufacture should cover what they claim however it's a give and take, they already give longer and more inclusive warranties than most auto manufactures. I for one would be happy if the industry would get together and standardize warranties and bit and make them more workable for everyone.
Do you realize that most warranty calls really relate to water chemistry and get covered anyway?
Let's not overlook this part of your dictionary lesson....b. The insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep the contract effective.
Every warranty I know of states “dealer service and/or trip fee’s may apply” implying that they don’t pay for our service of coming out to the house or even the troubleshooting, they simply pay for the time to repair the defect. That written warranty is your contract!
Has anyone had a TV repairman out lately? Did they cover everything under warranty? I'm really wondering what other industries do....?
I am sure Stuart would not have charged the consumer a fee if they brought the spa to him.
See! Now you understand!!! :o
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All these are reasons that the dealers have to decide if they should charge more for the spas upfront, or charge service calls. If I were to implement a service call charge on warranty work I would make all my spa sales sign off on the notion. I personally charge more for the spa, and then dont have the hassle of explaining warranty service call charges.
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While I understand where you are coming from on this Stuart, all dealers need to consider customer service. In the end, a dealership with excellent customer service will prevail in poor times as well as good times, because customers are the life-blood of any business. Start treating the customer with disrespect or what they see to be unfairly, and it will magnify and undo a lot of previous good that may have been done. This spa forum seems to be heavily trafficked by dealers. It is a very good medium to listen to the customers who pay for these spas and see what their take is on things.
Cheers
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The bottom line is this...Most manufactures pay $40-$70 for a warranty service. This doesn't include the time it takes to get to the sight, the hours involved in reconciling the paperwork, boxing parts and shipping them, stocking parts, running to supply store for glue and plumbing and certainly doesn't include extra time on the job for draining, moving the spa or even getting into the problem and troubleshooting.
As I stated before, everything has gone up substantially...insurance, gas, wages and so on but spas have not. In fact to be more specific, margins have gone down over the years and wholesale has inched up. Where we used to be able to cover some of the cost of warranty calls in the sale price of the spa, we can't now days.
Spas have also gotten much more complicated and troubleshooting is a whole different animal. An example of that would be an error code on a D1 bay series...there are 3 to 4 circuit boards talking with up to 5 pumps (including circ pumps) and a mass of wires. Not only that these pumps and boards are not behind the same panel so your pulling the whole cabinet apart sometimes to find a problem. A $50 service reimbursement doesn't begin to cover this.
Don't get me wrong...I love the challenge of some of these calls however, dealers are going broke sometimes supporting manufacture issues.
I would agree that manufacture should cover what they claim however it's a give and take, they already give longer and more inclusive warranties than most auto manufactures. I for one would be happy if the industry would get together and standardize warranties and bit and make them more workable for everyone.
[glow]Do you realize that most warranty calls really relate to water chemistry and get covered anyway?[/glow]
Let's not overlook this part of your dictionary lesson....b. The insured's guarantee that the facts are as stated in reference to an insurance risk or that specified conditions will be fulfilled to keep the contract effective.
Every warranty I know of states “dealer service and/or trip fee’s may apply” implying that they don’t pay for our service of coming out to the house or even the troubleshooting, they simply pay for the time to repair the defect. That written warranty is your contract!
Has anyone had a TV repairman out lately? Did they cover everything under warranty? I'm really wondering what other industries do....?
See! Now you understand!!! :o
Whenever that happens its the tech's job to explain the situation to the consumer and get it rectified. Maybe cover it the first time and explain it wont be covered again if they dont learn to take care of it properly.
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Whenever that happens its the tech's job to explain the situation to the consumer and get it rectified. Maybe cover it the first time and explain it wont be covered again if they dont learn to take care of it properly.
Again, I agree
The issue here is, who "covers it" the first time? The dealer or the manufacture?
You see you still have to understand the dealers margins are at an all time low and his costs are at an all time high. So who pays for the mistake? It's very expensive to send a tech and service van out onsite....
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Again, I agree
The issue here is, who "covers it" the first time? The dealer or the manufacture?
You see you still have to understand the dealers margins are at an all time low and his costs are at an all time high. So who pays for the mistake? It's very expensive to send a tech and service van out onsite....
Stu,
I own a spa dealership so I understand where you are coming from. The dealer covers it under the assumption that my guys didnt teach the customer good enough how to take care of the spa. You know what, this kind of service to reasonable customers is EXCELLENT at getting you referals. I do know where you are coming from, it sounds like maybe you should consider a increase in your spa pricing.
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You don't have a warranty on the phone service, and if the phone goes dead because of something that happens on the phone companies end, they don't charge a trip fee.
NOT around here. The phone company will take care of any problems up to the point where their wires attach to the box on your hour. Any problems AFTER the box, YOU are responsible for. They'll fix it, for $75 an hour, or you can pay them a monthly warranty fee.
All these are reasons that the dealers have to decide if they should charge more for the spas upfront, or charge service calls. If I were to implement a service call charge on warranty work I would make all my spa sales sign off on the notion. I personally charge more for the spa, and then dont have the hassle of explaining warranty service call charges.
The problem with this for many dealers is that by building is added cost for warranty work, they're now priced out of the picture compared to the guy down the road that DOES charge for warranty work. Remember two things, 1. people want to spend as little as possible, 2. people don't expect something new to break.... so the dealer down the road (charging for warranty work) will win almost every time.
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NOT around here. The phone company will take care of any problems up to the point where their wires attach to the box on your hour. Any problems AFTER the box, YOU are responsible for. They'll fix it, for $75 an hour, or you can pay them a monthly warranty fee.
[glow]The problem with this for many dealers is that by building is added cost for warranty work, they're now priced out of the picture compared to the guy down the road that DOES charge for warranty work. Remember two things, 1. people want to spend as little as possible, 2. people don't expect something new to break.... so the dealer down the road (charging for warranty work) will win almost every time.
[/glow]
I guess my business is doomed, wonder how I made it all these years. I guess maybe a bit more of sales training would help some of these places?
:-?
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Stu,
I own a spa dealership so I understand where you are coming from. The dealer covers it under the assumption that my guys didnt teach the customer good enough how to take care of the spa. You know what, this kind of service to reasonable customers is EXCELLENT at getting you referals. I do know where you are coming from, it sounds like maybe you should consider a increase in your spa pricing.
I think you missed my original post...I'm not complaining about my margins although in order to stay competitive in this market we've had to drop a lot. I'm frustrated with people that don't get trip charges after they've been explained over and over again.
They are told at the point of sale, their warranty states it and they are told when they call for service. It's not an odd or new concept.
We get a ton of referrals and many people are thrilled that we do so much for our trip fee however...there are a lot people that will fight you, lie to you, blame you and basically cheat you in order to not read their manual or take any responsibility themselves.
The other thing I'm doing here is laying the groundwork for the fact that our industry techs are worth more then they are getting. These guys have to be plumbers, electricians and electronic techs and their time should be billed accordingly. If we are going to be professionals then lets get paid for it! The flip side of this is that we also need to dress, act and educate ourselves like professionals also.
I would venture to say that customers will fight a spa tech over a bill much more than they would a plumber or electrician.
You want to know the funny part...depending on what this lady's actual problem is when we get out there I would have probably not charged her this call but considering the way she verbally abused everyone in the store I will.
I’m really not looking for advise here….I think those on the board that know me understand that I have a pretty good grip on owning and running a store in addition to enough experience to say that I’ve probably seen most of what goes on in the spa industry. I’m just venting to friends about a pet peeve.
Last but not least, I am complaining about service not always being a profit margin in our industry. We need to have a steady revenue in sales, supplies and service but as an industry we've backed ourselves into a corner trying to see who can give away the best warranty and then offset the costs on the dealers.
We need to change that and again standardize it a bit....the problem is it will never happen because no one wants to be first and not everyone would play fair.
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Im not asking you to take my advice, I just dont really like the idea of being on a consumer board complaining about consumers is all. Your right this industry needs more respect to continue on, but you are venting to friends (which is fine) for the whole consumer world to see. Service is and always has been a profitable part of my business, so maybe you could take some advice on that.
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Im not asking you to take my advice, I just dont really like the idea of being on a consumer board complaining about consumers is all. Your right this industry needs more respect to continue on, but you are venting to friends (which is fine) for the whole consumer world to see. Service is and always has been a profitable part of my business, so maybe you could take some advice on that.
I think consumers really need to hear some of the challenges we face...I gotta tell you that not everyone makes a profit on their service dept....I do, and I hope everyone (consumers and industry people) understand the necessity of that.
As far as your advice...I didn't say I wasn't welcoming it I said I was not really posting for that. Everyone's area is different; I would love to PM you and ask some questions about your area and how you do your service department. The day I can't learn something is the day I need a new job!!!
My Father was a blacksmith and farrier...He often told me that we need to constantly train people how to handle their horses in order to create good customers. I was surprised at the something as minor as holding a horse made all the differance to us when we where down there shoeing.
The internet hurts our business so often I think it's good that we can use it for good to train consumers on how to handle their horses on a broad scale and help ourselves in the long run. ;)
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I think consumers really need to hear some of the challenges we face...I gotta tell you that not everyone makes a profit on their service dept....I do, and I hope everyone (consumers and industry people) understand the necessity of that.
As far as your advice...I didn't say I wasn't welcoming it I said I was not really posting for that. Everyone's area is different; I would love to PM you and ask some questions about your area and how you do your service department. [glow]The day I can't learn something is the day I need a new job!!![/glow]
My Father was a blacksmith and farrier...He often told me that we need to constantly train people how to handle their horses in order to create good customers. I was surprised at the something as minor as holding a horse made all the differance to us when we where down there shoeing.
The internet hurts our business so often I think it's good that we can use it for good to train consumers on how to handle their horses on a broad scale and help ourselves in the long run. ;)
Im a firm believer in this, I visit this site daily for this reason alone. I only wish I knew what I know now ten years ago, when I was so raw. I sit back and look at how I handle certain things back then and can only laugh now. And dont get me wrong those that successfully service customers daily should be well rewarded in the long run and deservedly so.
I agree that the internet hurts our business, this site alone has cost my business three spa deals in the past six months from some of the mud slinging that goes on. Sad thing is two of the three spa deals decided to NOT buy at all. All three being good people that got some untruthful advice via the internet. And only one of those good people are soaking in hot water daily now. We need to be very careful about whats said and done on the internet with our industry and be sure we understand sarcasm and inside jokes are hard to see from the consumer end.
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Im a firm believer in this, I visit this site daily for this reason alone. I only wish I knew what I know now ten years ago, when I was so raw. I sit back and look at how I handle certain things back then and can only laugh now. And dont get me wrong those that successfully service customers daily should be well rewarded in the long run and deservedly so.
I agree that the internet hurts our business; this site alone has cost my business three spa deals in the past six months from some of the mud slinging that goes on. Sad thing is two of the three spa deals decided to NOT buy at all. All three being good people that got some untruthful advice via the internet. And only one of those good people are soaking in hot water daily now. We need to be very careful about whats said and done on the internet with our industry and be sure we understand sarcasm and inside jokes are hard to see from the consumer end.
I've been on this board for almost 5 years and can honestly say that I don't think it's ever "cost" me a sale. On the contrary I've been able to help people all over the country that have had issues or questions on spas.
Maybe the internet is researched differant in KS but here in Colorado many of my cusotmers have logged on to get informed better.
We all have challenged differences in the brands represented here and even had some pretty heated discussions however I think consumers learn from that.
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consider yourself lucky then
;)
Sometimes the "debates" are a bit more than that and become little deceiving.
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Here is another twist, the selling dealer goes out of business and he built in extra cost for warranty so he did not charge a travel fee. The manufacturer finds a new warranty center but they chose to charge a travel fee since they did not make the money up front. Should the manufacturer now pay the travel fee? I would say no.
Bottom line is someone is going to pay, the manufacturer can charge more, the dealer can charge more or since most spas (at least the better brands) never need a warranty call the consumer can pay less for the spa and they may have to pay if they need a warranty call.
Maybe manufacturers can start doing exactly what the warranty states, if they did that probably 50% of so called warranty calls would not be.
I would like to see a 2-year warranty, after the first year 80% of calls are the consumers fault anyways (whether they know or not).
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I always though the bottom line is, the consumer is going to pay. Either it's built into the initial price of the spa, or as a "copay".
I'm willing to bet, given the choice of $x for the spa which includes a "complete" warranty, OR $x - $y for the spa and there will be a copay for any required warranty work, 99% would chose the later.
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Look at what has happened to warranties on other products. They are much shorter than they were years ago. If you want an extended warranty, you have to buy it. Maybe spas should be the same way. That way you go in with open eyes and understand just what the dealer can and will do and how much it will cost.
I think people object to the trip charge because sales people make warranties such a big part of the deal...And it is natural to assume that a better warranty translates to a better product, whether that is the case or not. I think most people who buy tubs don't want to think about repairs because for most, spa repair isn't a do it yourself thing. So they want a warranty that says...We will repair anything that shouldn't be wrong with the product at no cost to the buyer.
Sorry Chris but the logic that the customer isn't bringing the spa to the shop doesn't fly. Just like my plumber..where is he going to do business for me if not at my house? The grocery store doesn't pay me to come shop there... :-/
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Doc is right...it's like a gamble..and especially in this economy..people will go with the less expensive choice and hope for the best...
But if a sales person is pushing the wonderful warranty, then the customer should expect to get a wonderful warranty...whether the dealer builds trip charges into the price or the manufacturer picks it up.
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I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub. I assumed any warranty repairs would be completely free of charge, as they should be. The small reimbursement from the manufacturer along with the healthy profit my dealer made from my sale should cover incidentals.
If my pump motor dies because it has a bad winding, I would expect to not be out a dime for the replacement. On the other hand, if it burns up because it was full of leaves and algae, then that's MY fault and I would expect to be responsible for the repair. Fortunately, I'm intelligent enough to know the difference.
If you purchase a new car, the manufacturer and dealer absorb 100% of the parts and labor cost of a warranty repair. Most brands will also pay for towing back to the dealer and some will provide a loaner. A few others will even reimburse you for meals and lodging if the breakdown occurs away from "home". My Infiniti provides all these benefits and it's by no means the most prestigious brand out there. Also, warranties have increased on automobiles over the years. It used to be 12 months or 12,000 miles. Then the standard became 36 months or 36,000 miles. Most brands offer significantly longer standard warranties than that these days such as Hyundai's 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Laptops (even "cheap" ones under $500) will typically pay for shipping costs to and from a service center. I realize far more laptops and cars are sold than hot tubs, but there's a lot more profit in hot tubs than in consumer electronics or cars. When you scale production and overhead costs, there's no excuse to have to pay for a warranty repair for a hot tub.
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Definately right about car warranties. I am thinking about my dishwasher warranty and the 90 days on most electronics.
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I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub. I assumed any warranty repairs would be completely free of charge, as they should be. The small reimbursement from the manufacturer along with the healthy profit my dealer made from my sale should cover incidentals.
If my pump motor dies because it has a bad winding, I would expect to not be out a dime for the replacement. On the other hand, if it burns up because it was full of leaves and algae, then that's MY fault and I would expect to be responsible for the repair. Fortunately, I'm intelligent enough to know the difference.
If you purchase a new car, the manufacturer and dealer absorb 100% of the parts and labor cost of a warranty repair. Most brands will also pay for towing back to the dealer and some will provide a loaner. A few others will even reimburse you for meals and lodging if the breakdown occurs away from "home". My Infiniti provides all these benefits and it's by no means the most prestigious brand out there. Also, warranties have increased on automobiles over the years. It used to be 12 months or 12,000 miles. Then the standard became 36 months or 36,000 miles. Most brands offer significantly longer standard warranties than that these days such as Hyundai's 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty.
Laptops (even "cheap" ones under $500) will typically pay for shipping costs to and from a service center. I realize far more laptops and cars are sold than hot tubs, but there's a lot more profit in hot tubs than in consumer electronics or cars. When you scale production and overhead costs, there's no excuse to have to pay for a warranty repair for a hot tub.
So your car is 25K plus and yet they make you bring it in and leave it for the repair. They don't come to your house and crawl under your deck to fix anything.
I think you would be shocked to learn what how little most dealers actually make on a spa sale after all costs are paid out. When the public is under the impression that all spas are similar and the cost they see on the Internet should be a baseline you have to struggle to make margin.
I understand your stand on the warranty as a consumer myself but we’re dealing with an industry that is less than 5% saturated and still pretty young. When we get to the point that we have as much market share as Cars and consumer electronics our volume will be such that we can worry less about margin and more about numbers.
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In my spa purchase last month, the trip fee was part of the negotiation with the dealer. I got him to extend the trip fee waiver from 12 months to 24. In addition, my mastercard has a buyer protection plan that extends the manufacturer's warrrantee for 12 months. The dealer's willingness to extend the "no trip fee" time helped close the sale. If he was willing to back the spa in that way, I felt he thought highly enough of the brands he sold to put his own $ on the line for after sale service.
Recommendations to buyers:
1. If dealer has a trip fee, negotiate a "no-fee" time.
2. Check into a credit card warranty extension
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I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub.
We didn't discuss it because we do not charge trip fees. We factor all of these costs into our pricing in order to give the customer one less thing to have to worry about.
Glad to know you're still enjoying your spa. We are set up out at Maude Cobb Convention Center for the boat show all weekend. Sold a Jetsetter and Grandee w/ SpaStone surround yesterday. I've already sold more spas in January than I did from August until Christmas last year! I figure folks have either realized that the sky is not falling or that it really IS falling and they might as well watch it fall from the comfort of a hot tub.
Gotta go...ya'll have a great weekend!
Terminator
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We didn't discuss it because we do not charge trip fees. We factor all of these costs into our pricing in order to give the customer one less thing to have to worry about.
Glad to know you're still enjoying your spa. We are set up out at Maude Cobb Convention Center for the boat show all weekend. Sold a Jetsetter and Grandee w/ SpaStone surround yesterday. I've already sold more spas in January than I did from August until Christmas last year! I figure folks have either realized that the sky is not falling or that it really IS falling and they might as well watch it fall from the comfort of a hot tub.
Gotta go...ya'll have a great weekend!
Terminator
Great to hear Term, we have had LOTS of people showing interest the past couple weeks, we may be showing some good sales numbers here shortly as well. Im glad to know Im not the only dealer that feels the way I do about trip charges.
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As a consumer, I paid more for my tub than I could have elsewhere because the dealer is local and sold themselves on their excellent customer service and the wonderful spa warranty. I paid $10,200 for the spa, steps, lifter, and spa butler. Others who bought the same spa and set up I believe have paid a lot less. To me, as a consumer, it was worth it to pay more and get better service. I am always willing to pay the local grocer more for the same produce than I am to the big chain, simply to help the local economy. Same thing for the spa dealer. I expect good service in return, and if the dealer didn't point out that I needed to pay for trip fees up front, and then charged me, I would be mighty pissed.
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What do most dealers charge for warranty trip fees? $30 maybe
How many service calls throughout the warranty period of 3-5 years? Lets say on average 3, sometimes more, sometimes less.
Thats 90 dollars worth of service calls that you want to charge the consumer. It definetely adds up if your selling 200 spas a year, I can see that. But why not just add 90 bucks onto your price of the spa and call it good. The 90 dollars added to the cost of the spa is far better than hassling with VALUED customers whenever the spa they bought from you has a problem. I just dont see the value in doing business the other way. I would guess that half the people that buy a spa from you at some point will buy another spa from you. Those that dont charge trip charges will be far more likely to sell that next spa to them as well.
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What do most dealers charge for warranty trip fees? $30 maybe
How many service calls throughout the warranty period of 3-5 years? Lets say on average 3, sometimes more, sometimes less.
Thats 90 dollars worth of service calls that you want to charge the consumer. It definetely adds up if your selling 200 spas a year, I can see that. But why not just add 90 bucks onto your price of the spa and call it good. The 90 dollars added to the cost of the spa is far better than hassling with VALUED customers whenever the spa they bought from you has a problem. I just dont see the value in doing business the other way. I would guess that half the people that buy a spa from you at some point will buy another spa from you. Those that dont charge trip charges will be far more likely to sell that next spa to them as well.
In twenty years many customers have even bought 3 and 4 spas from me....In fact just sold a customer this week that is on their second spa and when I told them this new spa would still have a Co-pay on the service call they said "that's ok, we live in a world of co-pay!"
I probably do a lot of things different than many folks....I actually don't figure a finance charge in for 6-12 months SAC but rather show the customers upfront what it costs me and let them decide if they want to add it.
I also explain the delivery charge and what it is letting them know that every dealer "figures it in" on the "sale" price.
I'm not going to charge every customer an extra $90 on every sale to cover the fact that they could have 3 service calls possible. Most customers don't have service in the first few year (except D1) so I don't want to punish those that wouldn't.
The other thing I've noticed is that many calls like dirty filters, improper programming and wiring issues are more likely to be looked at harder by the customer if there is the potential for a trip fee.
I must be doing something right...I've sold well over 200 spas a year for many years and so far I haven't lost one sale that I know of to an internet forum even though I have no corporate representation or groups defending my brand here. ;)
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I was just throwing something out there, thats all no more no less. As far as your pop shot at losing deals here, you dont have to deal with false accusations and such pointed towards your brand. Keep charging those trip charges, it sounds like its working out great for you! ::)
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I must be doing something right...I've sold well over 200 spas a year for many years and so far I haven't lost one sale that I know of to an internet forum even though I have no corporate representation or groups defending my brand here. ;)
Kind of hard to lose a deal on the internet when the brand you sell is never even brought up on here. I dont remember the last time a customer was on here looking at a Cal Spa. Just saying...... ;) ;D
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lol
;D
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In fact just sold a customer this week that is on their second spa and when I told them this new spa would still have a Co-pay on the service call they said "that's ok, we live in a world of co-pay!"
Consumers have been conditioned to accept lack of service, support, and quality products as the norm. Too many people shop by monthly payment alone and accept the first answer they are given without negotiation. This is part of the reason why so much cheap, plastic, inferior junk is sold these days.
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Consumers have been conditioned to accept lack of service, support, and quality products as the norm. Too many people shop by monthly payment alone and accept the first answer they are given without negotiation. This is part of the reason why so much cheap, plastic, inferior junk is sold these days.
Not to lay it all at the consumer's feet by any means, but the shopper is not without sin here. People are evolving into a throw away society. The importation of cheap goods from overseas has convinced people that throw away and re-buy is preferrable to buy good and repair. This trend isn't lost on manufacturers as it pads their sales over the years. But we are killing the technician repairman.
Now in some markets like spas and hot tubs, the price point dive has attracted a new customer. The low end opens up the market to casual spa owners instead of the hardcore, borderline hobbyists. My stepdad is in his tub everyday so a $10k tub wasn't a problem to justify.
I think what some people don't understand is that a $4k-$5k tub is the entry-level version. Yes, that's a lot of money to the average person, but at $4k-$5k the spa store can't afford to offer all the warm and fuzzies. They don't make nearly what some people think they do.
As for trip fees, they need to be disclosed upfront. But is that likely with most dealers. Probably not. Just like they don't tell you that the original cover will last 2-3 years and then you're looking at $300-$450 for a replacement every 3-6 years. Should they volunteer the info? Debatable. I would, but I've never made my living by selling hot tubs. The key is to be an informed consumer. If warranty is selling you, ask to see it and then actually read it. Ask about the maintenance costs. Know what you're getting into as far as energy costs. This is why I don't understand people buying from a mass-merchant. Who do you ask? Buying the 36 gallon jug of Tide at Costco is one thing, but a spa is another.
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While I understand where you are coming from on this Stuart, all dealers need to consider customer service. In the end, a dealership with excellent customer service will prevail in poor times as well as good times, because customers are the life-blood of any business. Start treating the customer with disrespect or what they see to be unfairly, and it will magnify and undo a lot of previous good that may have been done. This spa forum seems to be heavily trafficked by dealers. It is a very good medium to listen to the customers who pay for these spas and see what their take is on things.
Cheers
As I may recall, while you and others were shopping for the BEST hot tub you could find at the BEST price you were willing to afford, including spending extra time and expenses for traveling around and even out of state for, IF the dealer told you he would charge a "trip charge", there would be NO SALE and you would have been offended, because you are spending sooooo much on this item, you should be able to get it cheaper in spite of what the future holds. It then becomes the dealers responsibility to pay the expenses to travel to the hot tub for service which could be 10 miles or even a 100 miles. It is the perception of the customer that he is intitled to this type of service at NO CHARGE because he spent soooooo much.
We spent years subsidizing factory failures over bad glue, underpaid for the time consumed on repairs, and as Stuart has said, many dealers have been buried in expenses repairing manufacturer failures that are not adequately covered by warranties leaving the dealer holding the bag. In addition, the customer lack of water care and maintenence leads to many repairs, ie failed pump seals leading to motor failure because of customer neglect, frozen fractures because they run the tub for 30 minutes every 6 hours in freezing weather. It is presumed by the customer these are justifiable WARRANTY repairs when they are not.
It is like Stuart's first example, the other tub was great and nothing is said about it's failures, just the insulting attitude over a "trip charge" to cover the cost to attend to their needs (service) that some would never consider tipping for (ooppps).
This is a dealers problem that the manufacturer's depend on to correct tub deficiencies, many of which are consumer related and NOT necessarily product failure.
This has been an issue for many years. Dealers know the wholesale cost of the product they sell, the cost of getting the sale, their cost of doing business plus overhead, and the consumer want's it cheaper than others pay. The only variable unknown is the lack of understanding (inteligence in some cases) of owning and maintaining a hot tub, and keeping it functioning probperly. That includes knowing how to turn a diverter control to make jets work. It is amazing how many stupid calls we respond to at our expense. Yes, they do expect NO CHARGE and are shocked that we should even consider charging them for something they paid sooo much for.
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I never even asked about trip fees when I purchased my hot tub. I assumed any warranty repairs would be completely free of charge, as they should be. The small reimbursement from the manufacturer along with [glow]the healthy profit my dealer made [/glow]from my sale should cover incidentals....
… but [glow]there's a lot more profit in hot tubs [/glow]than in consumer electronics or cars..
One word, PERCEPTION, to quote you, “I assumed”, recommendation, open a dealership and get on the hay wagon!
....My Infiniti provides all these benefits and it's by no means the most prestigious brand out there. Also, warranties have increased on automobiles over the years. It used to be 12 months or 12,000 miles. Then the standard became 36 months or 36,000 miles. Most brands offer significantly longer standard warranties than that these days such as Hyundai's 10 year or 100,000 mile powertrain warranty...
BUY AMERICAN, obviously Hyundai is out to attract attention and to get business. They haven’t even been around ten years. While I am sure their product is worthy of consideration, as well as many of the other imports including yours, American manufacturer's suffer from the "Legacy cost" of a unionized work force, the mandates of government involvement, and the inability to import their products into competitor countries. Go Figure
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You ever read what a "power train" warranty covers? Or more importantly, what it DOESN'T cover (believe me, it covers WAY less than you think)? It's like the old spa warranties for life time structural warranty (basically meant it wouldn't crack AND leak water). About as good as as saying the spa wont be completely vaporized by lightening ;D ;D
American marketing, and the consumers perception....tis a wonderful world...make that country ;)
If you'll excuse me, my spa dealer buddies and I are getting together for our weekly lear jet races.
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One word, PERCEPTION, to quote you, “I assumed”, recommendation, open a dealership and get on the hay wagon!
BUY AMERICAN, obviously Hyundai is out to attract attention and to get business. They haven’t even been around ten years. While I am sure their product is worthy of consideration, as well as many of the other imports including yours, American manufacturer's suffer from the "Legacy cost" of a unionized work force, the mandates of government involvement, and the inability to import their products into competitor countries. Go Figure
Many of your "domestic" vehicles are more foreign than "imports". GM using engines and transmissions from China comes to mind. Many domestics being manufactured in Canada or Mexico come to mind as well. Then we have two of the most popular "imports" - the Camry and Accord - being assembled right here in the United States. I'm not trying to get into a political debate. I used to buy only Ford and GM vehicles. I finally got fed up with the quality issues and have been a happy owner of several non-domestic vehicles for several years now. I chose my Infiniti because it has a look, feel, and quality that I was unable to find in a domestic. The closest I found was a Cadillac CTS, but by the time I added the options I wanted it came in way too pricey. When the domestics offer the quality, overall value, and resale value of import vehicles then I'll consider switching back.