Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: crowemojo on November 11, 2008, 01:07:49 am
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Hi!
I'm just now starting my first Hot Tub search, so before I get to the models and my thoughts and questions, a little back ground.
- I'm a single guy that lives by himself and likes to entertain, so I would like a large tub with a high capacity.
- I'm going to be putting the hot tub on a pad (like an EZpad, etc.), directly on grass in my backyard (mostly because I imagine I will be moving within 3-4 years, and will either use the hot tub to help sell the house or bring it with me).
- I don't really have a size restriction on the tub
- I can afford to get something nice
- I live in Northern Indiana; cold winters and hot summers
- I'm not a huge fan of loungers, but think it may be worth getting one just so that other people that use the tub with me can enjoy it
- In the hot tubs I have tested and experienced, I really enjoy ones that have good foot massaging jets. My brother purchased a Sundance Maxxus based largely on the foot jets.
- I'm *not* looking for a sound system (or TV for that matter), and am not really swayed by any cursory features that aren't really hot tub physical enjoyment or performance related.
- Before you ask, or remind me of the importance of this, I will be wet testing every single one of the items I am considering!
- Every tub on my list is from a local dealer that has been around for a while.
Ok, so, that's where I'm coming from! I'm considering the following:
Sundance - Optima
D1 - Sarena Bay, Amore Bay, or Nautilus
Hot Springs - Grandee
Master Spa - LSX 1000
Clearwater - Orlando Signature
Some more specific thoughts:
Sundance: This is what my brother got (he got a maxxus), and I enjoy his, but I want to keep an open mind in considering all my options, and don't want to pay more than necessary for anything (but who does, really). I like the middle foot jets on the optima.
D1: I like the different layouts that are available and the tubs have a definite sexiness to them. I look forward to wet testing these!
Hot Springs: I've heard so many great things about the Grandee, but from just looking at the pictures, it's hard to see why. There seems to be almost a lack of foot jets. I'll be wet testing it, so maybe that will explain some of the hype ;)
Master Spa: Before I get the deluge of comments about the companies marketing practices, let me first state that I live only 1.5 hours from Fort Wayne, where the main plant is, and my town has a local dealer that specialized in *only* master spas, and has been around for years and years. So I will have local support, and won't be buying this from a fly by night type operation. All that being said, the new waterbed type thing on the LSX 1000 looks awfully intriguing I must say! Is there anyone on here that has one? What do you think of that new feature?
Clearwater: This is mostly in the list because the D1 dealer is also a clearwater dealer, and even though I don't see them mentioned a ton on the forum, they do seem to be held in high regard, so I figured they should get at least my consideration.
Here are my questions:
- What are reasonable price ranges for the above listed hot tubs? (No sound system, with an ozone system, and standard accessories, etc.) It seems like price shopping on hot tubs is like pulling teeth, it just takes so much effort to get any prices!!
- Granted that the wet test is the ultimate distinguisher, is there anything that anyone would recommend keeping in mind as I assess and compare these different tubs?
- Does my plan to just use a plastic pad make sense given that I'm only going to be here a few years? Also, I have a nice level back yard, can I just plop the plastic pad on the grass and put the tub on that? I'm a pretty hands off guy when it comes to any sort of handy work, so anything beyond that will most likely involve hiring someone to do it for me. Any thoughts or recommendations?
- Are there any major contenders that should be on this list, but aren't?
- Are there any questions I should be specifically asking all these dealers?
- Aside from wet testing, is there anything else I can do to make an apples to apples comparison?
- I know there are a lot of debated topics, often including acronyms I haven't bothered to look up yet. Is there somewhere that can act as a good primer for these various topics, so that I can walk into the show room more knowledgeable and prepared (short of just trudging through the entire dead horse forums)?
I'm hoping to do a wet test marathon of these tubs soon, I will keep this updated as I go along.
Any and all responses are appreciated!
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Welcome to the forum. Clearly you have done your reading. One thought on the lounger. Under your circumstancesI would get it. Almost certainly you will be using your tub alone on occasion. That is when I use mine the most. We have a tub that seats 6, but its usually just my wife and I, so there is stlil room to move around even if we don't use the lounger. Even though we frequently just sit in the tub relaxing, I am a power junkie when it comes to jets. I like having the power when I want it. Last night I had sore shoulders from my weekend of curling and a tension headache in the back of my neck. The neck jets in my tub feel like they could be used to powerwash the siding, and my foot jet can lift short people out of the tub.
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My main complaint with loungers is that I tend to float out of most of them. I'm a very ... buoyant guy ;)
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There are better places to get pricing info. This forum is composed of a lot of sales people that probably don't want to shoot themselves or their colleagues in the foot, and I can't blame them. But you might be lucky enough to get one or tow of them to send you a private message with some procing wisdom.
In this economy, I think $7500-8000 should get you all the tub you need and good brand at that, like Jacuzzi, Sun Dance, Hot Springs, etc. Test them all, don't fall in love in just one (or at least don't let your sales rep know that you are in love with just one), make sure all the sales people you work with know you are working with others, but don't tell them the models of the other tuns you are looking at. Don't tell the sales rep how much you want to spend, you will never get them below thagt price. Make them compete for your business. Of the premium brands, I found the most value in Jacuzzi. But that is highly subjective. Buy what you like.
If you don't have the bucks, possibly consider getting a used one.
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So far I've told the 4 local dealers I've met that I'm willing to spend around 6000, although honestly I'm willing to spend around 9000. They know I'm looking at all the stores in the area as well. I'm planning to wet test this Friday with 5 of my friends! We are turning the whole string of wet tests into a quirky way to spend the afternoon in the winter ;) How many times have you dealers had 6 people wet test? I figured I might as well bring a full load to see how well these tubs handle it.
I wouldn't have any aversions to getting a nice used tub, but the only used ones I have seen in my area have been a bit dated and just not that exciting. I would want a top of the line used, and it seems like there are only mid level or worse used tubs available at the moment. This is definitely an option I'm keeping open though. I've asked to be put on a notification list at the dealers that resell used hot tubs so that they will call me if something comes in. So far the best option in this department is a Vita - Elan, for 3200. I don't really know anything about it though, seemed like a nice price for a lot of tub.
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Sure! I live in South Bend, IN. There is a masterspa dealer that only does masterspa's, but also sells used stuff that they get in. There is another store that does Clearwater and D1 and sells used hot tubs as well. The third dealer is a hot springs dealer, and the fourth one is "The Great Escape" which carries Jacuzzi and Sundance, but not every single model.
The nice thing is that all 4 of these dealers are in a nice close proximity. I would say that all 4 are within a 2 mile radius.
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You can take the D1 list off as they are all well over 9k, with the Nautilus being the least expensive @ a minimum of $9600, the Optima and Grandee also are much higher than 9k. This leaves you with the Clearwater and the Master. You may want to up the anti a bit as you are looking @ spas that are all out of your price range at this point. I am not saying that you can't buy a great tub for between 6 and 9k, you absolutely can. They just will not be any of the ones on your list. The Clearwater and Master are in a diffferent category of spas than all of the others you have listed.
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STOP POSTING IMMEDIATELY. READ YOUR PRIVATE BOARD MAIL AND ERASE YOUR POST IMMEDIATLEY!!!!!!!!!
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STOP POSTING IMMEDIATELY. READ YOUR PRIVATE BOARD MAIL AND ERASE YOUR POST IMMEDIATLEY!!!!!!!!!
That is awefully bossy of you!
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Spaman -- I've already been quoted 9000 for the Optima, and I do have a bit of give to my budget if the tub is the right fit ;) At this point I've got an open mind and just seeing where it takes me. Regarding the D1s, I know at least one of those listed would come in close to my budget based on my initial visits to that store. Thanks for the info!
Solo -- Although I realize there are a *lot* of dealers that look at this site, and possibly even some that are in my area, I don't mind that. If anything it just further establishes that there will be competition and that I'm going to be looking for them to make an offer that makes sense. Besides, at the end of the day, I'm going to be making a decision to spend a certain amount of money in exchange for something I want. I'm either not going to buy the tub becuase it's not the right time for me to do so or the numbers don't make sense, or I'm going to decide that it works for me and I'll buy it. I'm not going to feel "taken advantage of" either way. For what it's worth, I appreciate the sentiment and motivation behind that advice though ;)
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STOP POSTING IMMEDIATELY. READ YOUR PRIVATE BOARD MAIL AND ERASE YOUR POST IMMEDIATLEY!!!!!!!!!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/166koz4.gif)
DAD GUM!!! That scared the crap outta me!
Term
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Spaman -- I've already been quoted 9000 for the Optima, and I do have a bit of give to my budget if the tub is the right fit ;) At this point I've got an open mind and just seeing where it takes me. Regarding the D1s, I know at least one of those listed would come in close to my budget based on my initial visits to that store. Thanks for the info!
I have the pricing from D1 if I can help, let me know. That is a good price on the Optima, campared to my local dealer atleast. If looking @ the D1 I would encourage you to look at the Amore bay a bit closer as it has a ton of room and makes a great center piece for the backyard. I must say it sounds like you are totally in control and will not make a bad decision on the spa you purchase, wet test and buy the one that fits your needs the most.
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Spaman -- Thanks! If it's one of the ones I'm seriously considering after my first round of wet-testing, I'll definitely let you know and see how things stack up. Again, thanks for the info!
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STOP POSTING IMMEDIATELY. READ YOUR PRIVATE BOARD MAIL AND ERASE YOUR POST IMMEDIATLEY!!!!!!!!!
wrong thread??? or wrong board???
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Solo just didn't want me to show all my cards in a forum that may potentially be viewed by the people I am buying from, that's all.
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There was a part of my original post that no one has spoken to. I don't really blame anyone, given the length of the post! Anyways, specifically:
- Does my plan to just use a plastic pad make sense given that I'm only going to be here a few years? Also, I have a nice level back yard, can I just plop the plastic pad on the grass and put the tub on that? I'm a pretty hands off guy when it comes to any sort of handy work, so anything beyond that will most likely involve hiring someone to do it for me. Any thoughts or recommendations?
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We have had great success with easy pad on stable level surfaces. Obviosly you can not use it in dirt that is going to turn to mud.
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I highly recommend testing out any of Dimension One's spas. The Amore Bay is especially amazing. And even though you said you're not that impressed by extra features, the wireless iPod stereo system and mood lighting fountains are nice to have when you're setting the tone for that perfect romantic evening under the stars. Also, the hydronomic jets are so soothing- especially the acupressure massage. Dimension One does exceptional work. Plus, not sure if you are aware of this or not, but the spa is so energy efficient that heating costs are only about $35/month which is definitely a plus. Have fun with the wet testing! :)
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I highly recommend testing out any of Dimension One's spas. The Amore Bay is especially amazing. And even though you said you're not that impressed by extra features, the wireless iPod stereo system and mood lighting fountains are nice to have when you're setting the tone for that perfect romantic evening under the stars. Also, the hydronomic jets are so soothing- especially the acupressure massage. Dimension One does exceptional work. Plus, not sure if you are aware of this or not, but the spa is so energy efficient that heating costs are only about $35/month which is definitely a plus. Have fun with the wet testing! :)
WOW thanks fo rthe info mercial, though he has already had a full presentation on the D1 spas in the show room.In my experience if you are interrested in the D1 only buy the Ultra life shell.
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That is awefully bossy of you!
Must be the spa mafia.
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Aquagirl -- The amore bay is in my list of spas to wet test this friday.
I hope these places account for the fact that I'm planning on wet testing with 6 people. I told each and every one of them this, but the water levels looked awfully high in some of the tubs while I was in the show room.
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Six is a lot of folks. I had to lower the water in my Caspian the other day to accommodate three....
I use a vac hose for a swimming pool and it only take a few minutes to drop it.
8-)
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You can take the D1 list off as they are all well over 9k, with the Nautilus being the least expensive @ a minimum of $9600, the Optima and Grandee also are much higher than 9k. This leaves you with the Clearwater and the Master. You may want to up the anti a bit as you are looking @ spas that are all out of your price range at this point. I am not saying that you can't buy a great tub for between 6 and 9k, you absolutely can. They just will not be any of the ones on your list. The Clearwater and Master are in a diffferent category of spas than all of the others you have listed.
The Clearwater is also over the price range he is looking at. How are Clearwaters in a different catagory? they passed the CEC, they have they same warranty, the have been around for 30 years. Geez....
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The other tub you should look at is the Clearwater Spyglass. It is our biggest seller for the ski areas, and priced better than the Orlando.
Happy testing.
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The D1 dealer also has some clearwater tubs, but he can't have them filled for my first wet test, maybe on a return visit.
So, an update. All of the dealers have been relatively decent to deal with, but after setting up my wet test at the MasterSpa dealer, I got not one, but 2 calls to verify that I was very seriously considering buying the tub. The first call was just to double check since the tub I asked them to fill was more expensive then what I had originally told them my budget was, but then the second call was from a manager complaining that it cost him 300$ to fill that tub and he wanted to know if I was going to buy it or not. I told him that I was considering buying it, but that I was also wet testing 5 other tubs that day, and I wouldn't commit to anything until I sat in them all.
I can already say though that I feel like I'm going in to that situation with an already negative impression on the master spa, but who knows, if I sit in it and love it (and love it more than the others I test), than I will buy it.
Oh! One other thing. The sundance spa guy, who also carries jacuzzi's, said it was really difficult to fill one of the jacuzzis that I was considering, and basically said "sit in this sundance over here, it's basically the same thing" Any thoughts on that?
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The D1 dealer also has some clearwater tubs, but he can't have them filled for my first wet test, maybe on a return visit.
So, an update. All of the dealers have been relatively decent to deal with, but after setting up my wet test at the MasterSpa dealer, I got not one, but 2 calls to verify that I was very seriously considering buying the tub. The first call was just to double check since the tub I asked them to fill was more expensive then what I had originally told them my budget was, but then the second call was from a manager complaining that it cost him 300$ to fill that tub and he wanted to know if I was going to buy it or not. I told him that I was considering buying it, but that I was also wet testing 5 other tubs that day, and I wouldn't commit to anything until I sat in them all.
I can already say though that I feel like I'm going in to that situation with an already negative impression on the master spa, but who knows, if I sit in it and love it (and love it more than the others I test), than I will buy it.
Oh! One other thing. The sundance spa guy, who also carries jacuzzi's, said it was really difficult to fill one of the jacuzzis that I was considering, and basically said "sit in this sundance over here, it's basically the same thing" Any thoughts on that?
Dont buy into the are you going to buy it or what tactics, sounds like your smarter than that and know to buy only if you like it!
Between the Sundance and Jacuzzi construction wise they are almost the same, Jacuzzi offers the ABS base Sundance doesn't not a deal breaker but its nice to have. And add the looks are quite different between the two.
The Sundance/Jacuzzi are different in hydrotherapy! The jets between the two spas are totally different and have there own individual feel, except for the 200 Jacuzzi series and the 600/700 series Sundance are the same jets for the most part, so wet test both if you can,! And if they want a possible sale tell them you want to try both on different days if they cant run both at the same time.
In my opinion the 300 series has more bang for the buck over the 700 and 800 series of the Sundance, you will have to judge for yourself. Either way both are nice spa's!!
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Yeah, I don't get the impression the sundance/jacuzzi guy is jacking me around or anything, and actually, of the 4 different dealers, he's the one I'm most comfortable with. Their showroom is a bit odd, since the place also sells everything else under the sun, and he was saying that to move and fill it is a huge hassle. I think if I really demanded it he would do it, but I'll no better if it's worth the trouble or not after my first wet tests.
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, and he was saying that to move and fill it is a huge hassle. I think if I really demanded it he would do it, but I'll no better if it's worth the trouble or not after my first wet tests.
From a logistics stand point I understand that. But in these economic times, you have the power. Most dealerships seem to rotate what tubs are filled or in their wet test area(Dealers here are cringing) tell him, that is the one your are interested in, call me when you have that one available, I'm off to wet test a Brand X. I don't think very many people go for joy-ride wet tests, and that most people who do wet tests are serious buyers.
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Yeah, seems like a lot of trouble just to get in 15-20 minutes of hot tub time and a sales pitch if you were just doing it for fun.
The tub that I was curious about wet testing was probably 3rd or 4th in my list, so i didn't mind that he couldn't fill it at the time, since there were other tubs there I was more interested in (that would be filled).
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Yeah, seems like a lot of trouble just to get in 15-20 minutes of hot tub time and a sales pitch if you were just doing it for fun.
The tub that I was curious about wet testing was probably 3rd or 4th in my list, so i didn't mind that he couldn't fill it at the time, since there were other tubs there I was more interested in (that would be filled).
When a customer asks to wet test a different model on the floor I say, give me 30 minutes while I pump the water from an already hot and ready model to that one for you. I then get my pump and move the water from one to another and wire it up! Ready in 30 minutes and I show the customer I am ready to work.It is no big deal to move water around.
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Ok,
Last friday I did the wet test, and brought 4 friends along for the fun, and to get their opinions too. Here are my thoughts:
Hot Springs Grandee: The tub was comfortable, and the jets felt good, but there was something off about it all. My tinier friends had problems with how deep the seats were, and I didn't like that the edge of the hot tub was kind of awkward, it made putting my arms up on either side a bit weird. I didn't feel like I would be very comfortable for long given these points. I liked the moto-massage, and the fit and finish of the tub was nice, but there was just something not there.
Masterspa LSX-1000: Well, first of all, let me say that in my opinion, the sun lounger on this thing is pointless. It takes up a lot of hot tub real estate and just wasn't very cool. It looked interesting and different online, but when it was all said and done, it was mostly just a bench. Other than that, this tub just kind of felt cheap. This tub also had those weird shoulder massage things in one corner, where the hot tub actually claws over top your shoulders to get some jets there. I didn't fit in these chairs at all, and the people that did fit in them said they didn't like them at all, they felt closed in and claustrophobic by them. So that essentially took out an entire corner of the tub. There was one seat that I thought was pretty comfortable with decent jets, and I liked that there were a lot of calf jets, that seemed to be a distinguisher for the tub. I also can totally see why people complained about getting pushed out of the chairs by the jets, that happened to basically everyone I was there with. We were all in agreement that it was the least impressive tub of all the ones we wet-tested that day.
D1 Amore: Wow, what a beautiful tub! This thing was pretty amazing. It's way out of the price range that I had started with, but it really did shine in comparison to everything else. If price weren't an issue in any way, this would be the hands down winner, but it's hard to figure out if the added price makes this one worth it. I liked the two loungers, but found the bench seat to be a bit uncomfortable. Several of my friends really loved the bench seats though. This tub seemed to have a bit of something for everyone, and very easily fit 5 people in it without having to worry about legs getting all intertwined. My only complaint really was that the headrests, even when adjusted to their highest setting, still didn't fit me. I had to chose between having my body in full contact with the jets, or having my head comfortable up against the head rest, I couldn't do both at once.
Clearwater: I don't remember which clearwater we tested, but i felt it was just kind of ok. If I was still thinking of a less expensive option, I think the clearwater would have been in the running, it seemed like a solid tub.
Sundance Optima: The optima was also a big crowd pleaser. The short people were comfortable in it, and because of the low profile headrests, I was too! The tub just felt good, nice and comfortable, well made, relaxing, etc. This was the last tub we wet tested, so maybe it was due to being super relaxed by the time we got to it, but I remember sitting in that tub and thinking "yeah, i could just enjoy this for a while!" Without taking cost into consideration, I liked the amore better, but the huge cost advantage that the optima has while still being a tub that felt great is hard to ignore. One thing I didn't like about the optima is the dealer was charging 600$ for an EZpad. I know I can get it cheaper, with shipping, from the internet. I also know that the other dealers in town were quoting me very reasonable prices for the same pad. I know it's minor, but that sort of difference just causes me to hesitate and wonder about the dealer with which I'm considering spending a lot of money!
Pretty much all of my friends agreed with me, they liked the amore the best overall, but the optima was a close second, and probably the one they would have purchased if they were shopping for a tub.
Also, Is it poor form to buy the pad from one dealer, but the tub itself from another? Same question with chemicals.
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As far as the chemicals, most will give you a discount off the shelf price if you bought a tub from them. My dealer has long closed and as moderator here, I look for excuses to visit the different stores in town.