Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: miktra23 on September 08, 2008, 07:56:40 pm
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Ok, I posted earlier about not knowing how to do this chemical stuff. well, I used my test kit. We have been trying to get the ph down and the chlorine up. Tried it again this afternoon, and ph was up again, so I used the ph decreaser. came back a couple hours later and saw that it looked a little green and a tad foamy. well, I checked it again, ph had went down some and chlorine was non existent. So, I added the chlorine sanitizer. It went nuts! Got really milky greenish, and foam like you wouldn't believe with all jets on! Now What! This tub has just had water in it for 3 days. We have used it twice. I didn't put in the N2 cartridge yet because the directions stated that I had to get my readings stablized. Well, looks like it's getting worse. What if I took out filters and cleaned them? Please someone help!!!! :'(
Oh and to add, the water tested after I applied the chlorine sanitizer, ph was PURPLE and the Chlorine was dark dark yellow!
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Sound like you should just drain and refile and write it off as beginner problems.
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I agree, drain it and start from scratch. I rarely use anything but Zip Chlor in our spa as the water seems to maintain itself very well. Whener I test it with a strip, everything is always within range.
I have PH up/down alkalinity up/down etc.... I cant remember the last time I had to add anything but add a little chlorine.
My spa is 425 gallons and it only takes about 45 minutes to an hour to fill it from empty. I takes all night to get up to 100 degrees but at least you have new, clean water. I get about i degree of temperature increase every half hour but a refill is definitely worth the wait.
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I was thinking on the other post you said you bought your tub used....I would drain and use something to sanitize and clean all the plumbing, like Spa System Flush. Who knows what's been growing in the pipes before you got it, and it WILL affect your water chemistry. I think you need to get to the source of the problem before you tackle the water chemistry...
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Once you've got your pipes cleaned out and have refilled, then you'll want to add some 'metal gone' to your water. Test your water, and adjust your ph & alkalinity. Then add your dichlor. Wait a day or two before adding your N2 stick.
For maintenance, I've copied and pasted what Spatech advises, which is the system I go by:
This is what I tell people to do, quick and simple:
Per use:
After EACH use add 1 generous teaspoon of dichlor per person. Don't get out and think "I'll do it later", add it as you exit. Don't worry about test strip readings of dichlor, just add after each use. It will sanitize and dissipate so you will have little dichlor the next day but as long as you add EVERY time you use it you'll be in good shape. Also, if you go 3 or 4 days without using the spa add a generous teaspoon or two then as well.
Weekly:
Shock once per week with MPS.
Check Ph/Alk once per week. Adjust as necessary.
Monthly:
Clean the filters thoroughly once per month. If the spa is getting a lot of use you might take them out mid month and give it/them a 5 minute rinse.
Quarterly:
Change the N2 cartidge every 4 months. Thats also about how often you change you water (±2 months). Depending on your water source you may want to use Spa Defender (metal sequester) with every fill up. If you do, add it upon fill up but wait a day or two to install a new N2 cartridge.
I don't use clarifiers, defoamers, etc unless I absolutely have to. Its not a science project, keep it simple.
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I think we're doing a dis-service in telling her to just drain after 3 day old water.
What's been done to prevent this next time? :-?
The key here is gaining an understanding of your source water and HOW to balance it!!
Here's the readings that are key to know...
Alkalinity
pH
Calcium Hardness
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS)
My suggestion is 2 things;
1) Take a 500ml sample of water into a local dealer and get them to test it. Post the results here and we can help guide you.
2) Before you drive yourself NUTS, work on your sanitizer (chlorine) and find a system that works best for you for maintaining a 1-3ppm reading of chlorine. Your sanitizer is the key. This is what keeps your water clean and clear and makes it safe to use.
Personally, I don't think you're going to be happy draining and refilling your spa every 3 days... ::)
*NOTE* After shocking your spa, forget the other readings! You will be bleaching out those other readings (pH turning purple) and you'll get a far more accurate result once the chlorine is back into range (1-3ppm).
Steve
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Ok guys, here's what's happened since my post. We drained and started over.When I took him the sample of water from the freshly filled tub, PH was extra high, and chlorine was non existent. Did exactly what the hot tub guy said at the place where this tub was originally purchased. Added the Ph decreaser. Stain/Scale (then once a week) 1 1/2 TBLS of chlorinating sanitizer a week and 1 1/2 TBLS of Shock before we get in. So far, so good. In four days, the water was back to being light green, cloudy, foamed when I ran the jets and blower, and had a little bit of a bad odor. But guess what, when we tested the water, it was perfect! but, he said there was Copper in the water. He doesn't know what to do to get rid of it. So, we cleaned the filters with the filter cleaner. Added the stain/scale stuff he suggested (to help with copper). Now, we are waiting. I didn't get back on the forum after a couple of days to check my posts. I see there were alot of helpful ideas on my problem. I thank you all for taking the time to help. I will still have these as I go thru the process of elimination. I have to tell you, those hot tub places are such a run around. But I'm trying to optimistic here and hope my water clears by tomorrow. I will keep you posted. Thanks guys!
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Ok guys, here's what's happened since my post. We drained and started over.When I took him the sample of water from the freshly filled tub, PH was extra high, and chlorine was non existent. Did exactly what the hot tub guy said at the place where this tub was originally purchased. Added the Ph decreaser. Stain/Scale (then once a week) 1 1/2 TBLS of chlorinating sanitizer a week and 1 1/2 TBLS of Shock before we get in. So far, so good. In four days, the water was back to being light green, cloudy, foamed when I ran the jets and blower, and had a little bit of a bad odor. But guess what, when we tested the water, it was perfect! but, he said there was Copper in the water. He doesn't know what to do to get rid of it. So, we cleaned the filters with the filter cleaner. Added the stain/scale stuff he suggested (to help with copper). Now, we are waiting. I didn't get back on the forum after a couple of days to check my posts. I see there were alot of helpful ideas on my problem. I thank you all for taking the time to help. I will still have these as I go thru the process of elimination. I have to tell you, those hot tub places are such a run around. But I'm trying to optimistic here and hope my water clears by tomorrow. I will keep you posted. Thanks guys!
If you've got copper in your water, you will need a metal sequestering agent. I find Leisure Time Metal Gon does a great job and is generally the product recommended here. Leisure Time Defender is a good stain and scale but will not help with metals. Add a full bottle of Metal Gon each time you do a complete fill to contain (sequester) metals.
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Take the N2 out before adding a metal remover. Put it back in a couple of days after adding a metal remover.
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well, i've waited a couple of days and nothing has improved. we added more stain/scale and it foamed up ALOT! Cant see the bottom of the tub. Very murky. All the chlorine is gone. Showing that there's none in it. I really don't know what to do. We are only suppose to put chlorine in 1 time a wk I was told so do I add more even though I put it in 3 days ago? I don't know if it's copper or not. That hot tub dealer that told me that, well, I'm just not sure about him. He has danced around everything I've asked. I'm beginning to think there's something wrong with it and that's why the other people sold it for so Cheap! Im so frustrated!!! I dont' know which way to turn. I dont want a TON of dangerous chemicals in the water. mixing al this stuff I'm afraid is just making it worse. Can anyone please tell me what could be the problem?
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Very rarely is it the spas fault!
What brand spa is it?
How many people using it,and how often?
What brand chems are you using?
Personally I would quit throwing stain and scale in there, just add what it says once a week, where is your PH level now? As far as the green goes does it generally show up after you have added chlorine?
Do you have any clairifier
At this point you might try rinsing the filters really good.
Then shock the spa really good, run pump 1 (filter pump) for 20 min, the water will probably foam up like crazy that's ok. Then add a good dose of chlorine, run another 20 min, then add 1 to 2oz of clairifier, bright-n-clear? Should be a blue liquid if you have any. Then just go and hit the filter pump off and on for awhile. You are probably going to get a scum line just wipe it off when ever. You may also add a bit of foam down if it gets really bad.
I think it sounds like you have a ton of crap in your water, iron,minerals and tannins?? You on a well??
Try what I suggested and see what happens.
If it clears up, just do as suggested but add shock after use instead of before, stain and scale once a week and depending on use 1 to 2 tblspns of chlorine once or twice a week depending on use. If you do have a ton of stuff in your water it may take awhile to get it out. Where I am there are areas that have horrid water, but most can usually get it under control after a few days.
Let us know what happens!! Jim ;)
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here's some pics I just took of it and the ph/cl level test right now. We washed and rinsed filter with the baqusil stuff twice this week. No, we don't have any clairifiers. Here's what we have put in it: "Spa Essentials" Ph decreaser, shock Oxidizer, Stain/Scale and "SpaGuard" Sanitizer.Nature 2 cart. Our hot tub is a "Clearwater Beachcraft" Seats 5. We used it about 3 times the first week, Me and my husband. Then last saturday we had some family over to try it out, 6 all together at different times that day. Then we used it on monday but not sense because of the problems. It has 3 pumps, a blower, 2 filters, and the ozon thingys. It's suppose to be no maintenance. Huh! It's a 2007 and retailed at 9000, we bought it used for 3000.
Here's a few pics of the tub tonight and the test.
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well, thought I'd get a pic posted after I read the help section and it said I could attach a pic but I can't find where I do that in the post. oh well. I'm just not having a good day.
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I am no expert but to me it seems that the best thing to do is to start over. AGAIN.... you have but so much chems into this already.
Did you by any chance use swirl away??
Did you replace the filters?
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to put on a photo got to photobucket.com create a free account upload your photos there and then past the photo link into your posts.
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No idea what the Baqusil cleaner is, but it should probably be used with nothing but Baqusil product which is a hydrogen peroxide based chemical. Not positive it wouldn't work though?
Your spa got a chitload of use and you probably didn't shock enough or at all at the end of the day??
You have to remember a lot of people means a lot of bacteria, which means you have to compensate with sanitizer (chlorine) to kiil that amount of batherload.
The spa sounds fine so don't concern yourself whether its the spas fault or not, it's not! And for what its worth, no spa is maint free completely.
Try what I suggested see where it goes.
PS! Don't drain yet.
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(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee339/pixiesticks823/sept08202.jpg)
(http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee339/pixiesticks823/sept08205.jpg)
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it looks non foamy here but when i turn on the jets, it foams alot.
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Here's a thread to read that goes on about cloudy water, it wasn't quite the same situation you had but had a lot of good advice.
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1219205519/12#12
I'm no expert but what was explained here helped me as well. In the end I ended up using a clarifier, scooping out the foam, super chlorinating and cleaning the filters. Now I have a clear, sanitized spa.
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You have put so much stain and scale in that it may be making things worse. To be safe, I would start over.
After draining, make sure you filters are clean. I would even rinse them in bleach and water after cleaning them to make sure everyhting is rinsed out (also, did you purchase new filters when you got the tub?) and I would not used the baquacill filter cleaner either. Most Baqa products do not get along with other products.
Fill with a filling filter if you think there are metals in the water.When filled, check to see what the filter cycle is set for. The default on Clearwater (without a circ pump) is very low, with N2 and the use you are describing, you need 4 hours at each cycle (8 hrs total) If it has the 24 hour circ pump (this model, the St. Andrew if it is 84 inches square, the Pebble Beach if it is 93 square,no blower, just air that you control with the knobs on top that mixes with jets, should have the 24 hour circulation pump, make sure the circulation pump is working and working correctly. It runs 25 hours a day, if it is not than it needs to be addressed) then dont worry abot the cycles. Also check to make sure the ozone is producing ozone they way it should. There should be a light (under the cabinet on the ozonator) if it is producing ozone. If there are metals in the water use a metal remover, not stain and scale, a true metal remover. Do not put the N2 in untill a couple of days after if metal remover is used.
Make sure to follow the directions on the N2 paper. This is the low chlorine recipe, which is dichlor at start and MPS after each use and dichlor weekly. If the tub is used heavy then you will need dichlor more often.
Make sure to keep the ph levels in check, and with many people using the spa a clarifier may be needed. I like Sea Klear all natural clarifier.
Foam can be caused by several things, swimsuits and body lotions are the biggest. Make sure everyone is clean, with no lotion, pperfume, makeup ect and theat a swimsuit has been rinsed extra well.
So have we all really confused you yet? I would check to see if the 24 hour circulation pump is working correctly first, I think it is because it would not heat right if it was not. I think you had many people and needed to add chlorine and did not, now things have gone crazy. It falls under Chas's Law!
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I kinda agree with everyone including Steve...almost....
I think you should drain it however, you should take a sample of both your spa water and your tap water to the dealer and see what they find. I think you've contaminated the water with something and my rule is that if I can't get it under control in 24 hours (or at least see noticeable improvement) then I just drain it.
I could have been filter cleaner, something in the hose, how you add chems or anything. It's just not worth spend a lot of time trying to figure it out when most dealers have the tools to find it right away.
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Miktra23, I'd still try the "swirl away" or similar product to clean all the pipes out. Since it was a used tub, you have no idea what might be in those pipes.