Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Jacuzzi Jim on May 17, 2008, 02:11:55 pm
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So we decided to send an E-mail to the local Sundance dealer and H,springs dealer to see if they were interested in a BATTLE OF THE BRANDS promotional at the local mall to see if we can all boost sales. 10,000 each to cover tons of radio ads and the space. for a 7 day or more sales event. The Sundance dealer said yes, Dan at Hot springs was going to talk to his guys and see if they were up to it. I really hope they want to.
We will all have to follow some kind of pricing/guidelines/rules, and absolutely no bashing but just a fun create awareness sales event. Probably early July before the state fair in August.
I think it will be a blast, we all know each other for the most part, so it should be a clean battle. :)
Any thoughts/ideas from you guys??
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Sell 'em at MSRP!
Term
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Chris, I think you need to get over that whole MSRP thing.
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Sell 'em at MSRP!
Term
NO BY-PASS
WOO-HOOO!!!
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Chris, I think you need to get over that whole MSRP thing.
After reading your post, I extracted a 1991 Perdoma Churchill out of the humidor, went outside and sat in the sun on this glorious East Texas Saturday and did some serious ponderin' on your statement for an hour or so.
Whilst enjoyin' the slight breeze and still reveling in the tingling of my loins from the HotSpring Aria I had just graciously bestowed upon another thrilled customer, I thunk some deep thoughts about the "whole MSRP thing" and why it is simply another brilliant idea regurgitated from the depths of my inner machinations. And I am pleased to share it with you....
You see, in spite of the serious tone one would expect from a business as vital to mankind as selling hot tubs for a profit, I was able to remind myself (through no small effort, believe me you) that the MSRP is an ignis fatuus benchmark by which a manufacturer places inherent value upon the products they produce. Some companies place a higher value than others do and the unitiated public is generally not privy to the actual cost of these products due to the sensitivity of this information to the parties involved. One can employ reasonable deductive facilities to make an educated guess and thereby reach a somewhat plausible determination of the value of said products, in this instance portable spas.
I pondered and postulated and damn near flagellated myself over your proposed event and the ensuing response, all the while neglecting the full enjoyment of my rapidly dwindling hand-rolled companion. Sez I to myself and no other "If good ol' JJ truly wants to have a democratically governed spalapalooza with his friends, then what better format than to sell the spas upon their inherent value as determined by the respective manufacturers?"
As always, I found myself easily amazed at myself as I closed my eyes and ears and mind and envisioned your post from some time ago "I just tell customers that HotSprings are overpriced hunks of plastic" or some semblance thereof written in a not-too-bygone era. If that be so, then sell thine products by their MSRP and pit your skills of high-end hydrotherapy pontification against your brethren in a battle to justify the differences betwixt the products based upon their known "value". I'd give a good dollar or two to enjoy the spectacle that would unfold!
Only in this fashion can true democracy flourish throughout the spa industry....or, at least in ya'lls proposed spa extravaganza.
Term
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Ok then, glad your in a good mood. I will let you know how it goes, that is if the HS guys even want to show up. We thought it would be a good way to increase sales in the area. Were not in an oil rich enviroment with only 2 other dealers. Thanks for the thoughts.
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I think it is a great idea. Especially since[glow] all[/glow] the reputable brands will be there. :D
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After reading your post, I extracted a 1991 Perdoma Churchill out of the humidor, went outside and sat in the sun on this glorious East Texas Saturday and did some serious ponderin' on your statement for an hour or so.
Whilst enjoyin' the slight breeze and still reveling in the tingling of my loins from the HotSpring Aria I had just graciously bestowed upon another thrilled customer, I thunk some deep thoughts about the "whole MSRP thing" and why it is simply another brilliant idea regurgitated from the depths of my inner machinations. And I am pleased to share it with you....
You see, in spite of the serious tone one would expect from a business as vital to mankind as selling hot tubs for a profit, I was able to remind myself (through no small effort, believe me you) that the MSRP is an ignis fatuus benchmark by which a manufacturer places inherent value upon the products they produce. Some companies place a higher value than others do and the unitiated public is generally not privy to the actual cost of these products due to the sensitivity of this information to the parties involved. One can employ reasonable deductive facilities to make an educated guess and thereby reach a somewhat plausible determination of the value of said products, in this instance portable spas.
I pondered and postulated and damn near flagellated myself over your proposed event and the ensuing response, all the while neglecting the full enjoyment of my rapidly dwindling hand-rolled companion. Sez I to myself and no other "If good ol' JJ truly wants to have a democratically governed spalapalooza with his friends, then what better format than to sell the spas upon their inherent value as determined by the respective manufacturers?"
As always, I found myself easily amazed at myself as I closed my eyes and ears and mind and envisioned your post from some time ago "I just tell customers that HotSprings are overpriced hunks of plastic" or some semblance thereof written in a not-too-bygone era. If that be so, then sell thine products by their MSRP and pit your skills of high-end hydrotherapy pontification against your brethren in a battle to justify the differences betwixt the products based upon their known "value". I'd give a good dollar or two to enjoy the spectacle that would unfold!
Only in this fashion can true democracy flourish throught the spa industry....or, at least in ya'lls proposed spa extravaganza.
Term
I would like you to know that these types of posts are discussed in my household. My 3 older children (13, 11, 9, 9months) have increased the point total on test scores because of these examples. (NWEA and the MCA--here in MN) The point total helps to determine what kinds of State and National funds get distributed to each school.
We discuss the different parts of speech used and love to linger over the adjectives used in the parentally approved posts we have found here!
I will tell you that we do the "PG-18" on any mention of tingling in the loins, as I do not care to have my 13-year old even think about tinglings... ;D
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10,000 each to cover tons of radio ads and the space. for a 7 day or more sales event.
whoa...Jim would an event like that generate enough profit to cover 30 thousand dollars
worth of sales that would not otherwise have been generated from the store?
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I would like you to know that these types of posts are discussed in my household. My 3 older children (13, 11, 9, 9months) have increased the point total on test scores because of these examples. (NWEA and the MCA--here in MN) The point total helps to determine what kinds of State and National funds get distributed to each school.
It does give me considerable tingling in the aforementioned nether regions to hear that my innocuous ramblings are subject to comprehension by people of all ages. Although I realize that it is not quite up to the verbal standards of "NO-BYPASS WOO HOOO!!!" with which others are more comfortable, it does my heart good to know that the youth of our nation are able to find semblances of proper grammatical representation upon this forum.
Thank you.
Termie
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I don't Term thinks it is, not sure why? I should add in my defense, when I said as Chris so eloquently stated, that I tell customers that hot springs are nothing but over priced hunks of plastic. Its true I said that here in a drunken stupor. It is not how I sell nor what I tell customers. ::) Should I have had said that no, so I apologize for that even though it was awhile ago it must have stuck in his craw something fierce.
Like said I hope the HS boys want to do it!! Dont know if we will do MSRP SUGGESTED retail or what, we have not talked about that, but I am sure we as in us, hs and the sd dealer come up with something.
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Oh no, no, no...I think it's a great idea and sounds like a lot of fun. Those would be 3 great products with which to battle and ya'll would probably all do well. I was just throwing out a suggestion for ground rules.
It would be nice if we could do something like that around here, but our competitors would want to bring their pigs and banjos and corn and it would smell like Topeka before you know it. The mall wouldn't appreciate that. They had their fill when Master Spa set up out there last year.
Term
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10,000 each to cover tons of radio ads and the space. for a 7 day or more sales event.
whoa...Jim would an event like that generate enough profit to cover 30 thousand dollars
worth of sales that would not otherwise have been generated from the store?
I am not sure that will be the number, they just threw that out there to get things going, this only took place yesterday.
Now if we sell at MSRP and we sell 10 spas we would do really really good. But we don't sell at MSRP I don't know anybody that does. We don't even show it.
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Only in this fashion can true democracy flourish through the spa industry....or, at least in ya'lls proposed spa extravaganza.
Term
Actually, we as a country are not a democracy. We are a Representative Republic. "Pure Democracy" is the same as Mob Rule. So if everyone in a room decides that they are going to vote to go to Colorado and punch somebody's lights out, they can do so.
We need a set of rules and laws to govern behavior - and of course in my example above, even if we all vote to go to Colorado, it would be against a couple of laws to do so.
Not in Texas, mind you...
8-)
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It is going to take me days to comprehend the deep meanings of this thread. Since I don't smoke cubans, I wish I had a spa in the backyard so I could relax and take it all in.
Scott :-?
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Actually, we as a country are not a democracy. We are a Representative Republic.
Yes, democracy is misused as it relates to our government. I only used it in the sense of the spalapalooza.
Ya'll have a great weekend!
Term
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As always, I found myself easily amazed at myself as I closed my eyes and ears and mind and envisioned your post from some time ago "I just tell customers that HotSprings are overpriced hunks of plastic" or some semblance thereof written in a not-too-bygone era. If that be so, then sell thine products by their MSRP and pit your skills of high-end hydrotherapy pontification against your brethren in a battle to justify the differences betwixt the products based upon their known "value". I'd give a good dollar or two to enjoy the spectacle that would unfold!
Only in this fashion can true democracy flourish throught the spa industry....or, at least in ya'lls proposed spa extravaganza.
Term
Seems like a fair and honest way 8-)
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I don't Term thinks it is, not sure why? I should add in my defense, when I said as Chris so eloquently stated, that I tell customers that hot springs are nothing but over priced hunks of plastic. Its true I said that here in a drunken stupor. It is not how I sell nor what I tell customers. ::) Should I have had said that no, so I apologize for that even though it was awhile ago it must have stuck in his craw something fierce.
Like said I hope the HS boys want to do it!! Dont know if we will do MSRP SUGGESTED retail or what, we have not talked about that, but I am sure we as in us, hs and the sd dealer come up with something.
Just don't talk about prices with your competitors too much. You don't need to start getting accused of price fixing or collusion or anything illegal like that.
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Just don't talk about prices with your competitors too much. You don't need to start getting accused of price fixing or collusion or anything illegal like that.
Speaking of price fixing, did you ever notice how gasoline is always within pennies at all stations in any given town. Hmmmmm
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Just curious where this shootout will take place? Sounds like fun. Is the local Marquis guy invited?
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Just don't talk about prices with your competitors too much. You don't need to start getting accused of price fixing or collusion or anything illegal like that.
BINGO! And exactly why I suggested going by the MSRP to begin with.
Set up a Jacuzzi J-480 that has an MSRP of $15,410
Set up a HotSpring Grandee that has an MSRP of $11,095
Set up a Sundance Maxxus (I assume it's probably north of $15,410 since it is the same company as Jacuzzi and I primarily hear people concur that Sundance is considered the premium brand of the two)
This format would prevent any accusations of price fixing as well as allowing each salesperson to sell their respective products based strictly on the spas themselves.
That is the only honorable way to proceed.
Term
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BINGO! And exactly why I suggested going by the MSRP to begin with.
Set up a Jacuzzi J-480 that has an MSRP of $15,410
Set up a HotSpring Grandee that has an MSRP of $11,095
Let's keep it fair. The HotSpring Vista has a lounger so let's substitute it for the Grandee. The Vista has a MSRP of $11,195 8-)
HotSpring Vista - $11,195
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/MichiganOutlaw/HSS_OH_Vista_Pearl_0.jpg)
J-480 - $15,410
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/MichiganOutlaw/j-480-overview.jpg)
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Personally,
Just looking at the picture their is no comparison. The Jacuzzi's therapy looks much more beneficial, the jets wont cause you to itch(not to small in size), and the seats look more comfortable.
Even with the extra money it would be a no brainer to me.
IMO
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Everytime I see a picture of the J-480 I think I wish I could have fit one on my spa pad but at 94X94 it was 3 inches too wide for my application. I can't wait for my fully optioned J-470 to arrive which only cost me $10,400. Nice pictures.
Thanks,
Scott :)
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Personally,
Just looking at the picture their is no comparison.
I thought we try to advise that spa shoppers should wet test and not try to draw conclusions from pictures (and jet counts, fake Hp ratings, fancy marketing terms, etc.)? ;)
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I thought we try to advise that spa shoppers should wet test and not try to draw conclusions from pictures (and jet counts, fake Hp ratings, fancy marketing terms, etc.)? ;)
Exactly! What feels like great therapy to some, may not to others. I sell both Jacuzzi and Coleman side by side in my store. It's our experience that after wet testing both brands approx. 8 out of 10 people will pick a Coleman over a Jacuzzi for the comfort of the seats and the feel of the jets. However if we're up hard against the local Sundance dealer we find it very easy to sell Jacuzzi over Sundance. IMO I feel Jacuzzi is the flagship line over Sundance...
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I thought we try to advise that spa shoppers should wet test and not try to draw conclusions from pictures (and jet counts, fake Hp ratings, fancy marketing terms, etc.)? ;)
Pictures can tell you a lot sometimes. I would still advise wet testing both to make sure. Just offering my opinion that the Jacuzzi looks much more inviting to me, since others are throwing their opinions out.
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Just offering my opinion that the Jacuzzi looks much more inviting to me, since others are throwing their opinions out.
You're the one who started making comparisons between the spas based upon appearances. ;D
The rest of us are trying to help Jim get his spalapalooza going in an ethical fashion with some good feedback like he requested.
Are you sure you're posting in the right thread? :-?
Term
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Im sorry, none of your posts had any sarcasm in them. How could I assume that! Im sure that your whole goal in this thread is to help out Jacuzzi Jim, why would I think any different! Why are we posting pics of spas with MSRP's if we arent to judge which is better???
By the way since the No-Bypass filtratioin is so good, having the show in Topeka wont hurt anything cause the HS spas will filter out all that all the stinch from pigs and cornfields. Although for that to work, my local HS dealer would have to agree to put his spas side by side with ours, which typically doesnt work out to well for him.
:D
I also think this is a great idea for any market to have a local event where people can come to one location to look at all the spas offered locally
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After wet testing the J-480 I picked the J-470 (same tub without lounger) because of the nice relaxing jets and looks. The raised waterfalls made it possible to sit under the falls and have one over each shoulder while the jets worked your lower back.
If I had wanted the Tim Allen tub it would have been the Coast Radiance that I wet tested. The jets when turned all the way up would push you out of the seats and pounded you like hamburger.
Moral of the story: There are different tubs for different people. After wet testing we all find the tub that fits our budget and feels best when we sit in them.
Funny I never pay attention to MSRP on cars or anything else for that matter. I have also never heard such a big deal being made about MSRP until this forum. I find that Hot Springs, Jacuzzi, and Sundance were all within $500 of each other when I priced them out, so the market seems to have set the price fixing in our area.
Scott :)
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It does give me considerable tingling in the aforementioned nether regions to hear that my innocuous ramblings are subject to comprehension by people of all ages. Although I realize that it is not quite up to the verbal standards of "NO-BYPASS WOO HOOO!!!" with which others are more comfortable, it does my heart good to know that the youth of our nation are able to find semblances of proper grammatical representation upon this forum.
Thank you.
Termie
FYI,
From my experience on the message boards when the grammatical and spelling police arrive, usually that poster has been had.
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[glow]I hate to get off topic but...[/glow]
Jacuzzi Jim,
How is the quest to present the Battle of the Brands going?
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I think the concept is awesome and I tried for YEARS to organize such an event. A few of the key dealers in the city were interested and we all knew each other and didn't slam anyone so it could have worked but it never did materialize. When done with class, it just creates awareness and an environment for all to succeed in a "one stop shop"!
Hope it works out and I'd love to hear the results!
Steve
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It is going to take me days to comprehend the deep meanings of this thread. Since I don't smoke cubans, I wish I had a spa in the backyard so I could relax and take it all in.
Scott :-?
I think you'll require far stronger "goods" than cubans to make sense of termie's posts here Scott! ;)
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It sounds like a good idea. If I were a dealer of another spa brand and the Hot Springs, Jacuzzi and Sundance dealers were getting together for a big, organized, advertised spa show I'd be envious.
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Couple things here, we are still waiting to hear from the HS dealer. And as far as other dealers we only went with us 3, why I don't know. Nobody likes the D1/cal-spa dealer. I don't think the Marquis dealer will want to shell out the money, nor will the Beach comber guy.
As far as MSRP goes, Some have started comparing apple to apples not apples and oranges which I was not really going to go into for fear of a huge debate. ;D
The thing is the Grandee and Vista and other HS spas line up to the 300 series better than the 400. The 400 is a different spa and in my opinion in a different category than those. The Grandee lines up with the J-375 (lounge)and the J-365. The Vista lines up as well to the J-375 and the J-355. And if looking at these spas side by side spec's for spec's it is easy to see.
Will see what kind of hornets nest this stirs up??
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As always, I found myself easily amazed at myself as I closed my eyes and ears and mind and envisioned your post from some time ago "I just tell customers that HotSprings are overpriced hunks of plastic" or some semblance thereof written in a not-too-bygone era.
Jacuzzi Jim said that?
Wtf?
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That's good information to work with, Jim.
OK, since HotSpring doesn't have anything that matches up to the J-480 in your opinion, you will either have to do one of two things in order to make this comply with some type of structured format as you have indicated:
1. Do as I originally suggested and bring your big dog (J-480) and the other two possible participants bring their big dogs (Vista & Maxxus), display all three spas at their Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, and then let the three salespeople justify the prices displayed by selling the spa on it's own merits......or.....
2. Have mercy upon HotSpring and bring your comparable J-3whatever, display it at it's MSRP ($10-13K???), and sell it against the HS and whatever Sundance Spa you deem is comparable.
I'm seriously trying to help you avoid any semblance of illegal price fixing, which I'm sure many of the other industry professionals on this forum picked up on in the original post. It is also, quite possibly, the reason that the HS dealer is somewhat reluctant to become involved in this until a legal and ethical format is established.
Keep us informed and use your good common sense.
Term
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Jacuzzi Jim said that?
Wtf?
Yes, in this thread, but he was drunk and later expressed regret, although he did not retract his statement.
Be sure to read the whole thread, very revealing.
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1204596875/0
Term
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To save the search here is the remark that was made while Jim was in a drunken state of mind and he didn't mean it:
To clear a few things up, I don't bash the competition during a sales presentation, I do show them the benifits of why they should own a Jacuzzi, and I don't just come out and say a Hot Springs is an overpriced hunk of plastic.
Usually when the subject comes up, it is after the sale has been made or during the write up, even as long as a week or two later when they comment how happy they are they purchased a Jacuzzi. I go through the pricing with the customer, and it sometimes comes up how the Hot springs they were looking at was so high priced. I simply say, yes I believe they are over priced for what you get.
So can we now just admit that both Hot Springs and Jacuzzi's are both great hunks of plastic and move on.
Thanks,
Scott :)
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That's good information to work with, Jim.
OK, since HotSpring doesn't have anything that matches up to the J-480 in your opinion, you will either have to do one of two things in order to make this comply with some type of structured format as you have indicated:
1. Do as I originally suggested and bring your big dog (J-480) and the other two possible participants bring their big dogs (Vista & Maxxus), display all three spas at their Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price, and then let the three salespeople justify the prices displayed by selling the spa on it's own merits......or.....
2. Have mercy upon HotSpring and bring your comparable J-3whatever, display it at it's MSRP ($10-13K???), and sell it against the HS and whatever Sundance Spa you deem is comparable.
I'm seriously trying to help you avoid any semblance of illegal price fixing, which I'm sure many of the other industry professionals on this forum picked up on in the original post. It is also, quite possibly, the reason that the HS dealer is somewhat reluctant to become involved in this until a legal and ethical format is established.
Keep us informed and use your good common sense.
Term
Term As far as bringing spas we plan on bringing as many as the space will allow prolly a 20X40 tent, and their will be more than one sales person working. To go to this big of an event and only bring 1 or 2 of the big boys and duke it out between those 2 wouldn't make sense, I like the J-480 but its not OUR top seller,will we bring it? I dont know yet. I know we will have a J-470 and probably a mix of the most popular 300 and 200 series. Sundance and Hot springs I am sure will do the same. We are pretty civilized up here, and I am sure we can keep our selves in accordance with what ever pricing structure we/they decide on. I may not even have a say in it, I don't own the company.
We all have margins to maintain, so I am sure we will all have our own prices adjusted to wear we should be for such an event, IE the home show and the state fair. We don't sell off MSRP there either.
Thank you though for your advice.
Correct me if I am wrong but you seem awfully concerned about the pricing and equality of spa's, almost to the point where I get the feeling you think we are there to just screw over or belittle the Hot springs spa??
Regardless of what I said in that other post, that you so graciously keep bringing up,I really do have a lot of respect for Hot Springs,I would be a fool if I didn't. People buy what they like and what fits em. Just ask Chrisi or anybody else here for that matter. I sell way more Jacuzzi's because of the product it is not just because of the name, some people buy that story which is a good one. But if I were to rely solely on that my kids would be running around barefoot, which they do anyway but its not because I cant afford shoes for them.
Anyway I am really looking forward to the event,I think it will be a lot of fun. I am sure we will all sell spa's and hopefully be a great jump start to the fair.
Sorry if I am reading you wrong, its easy to do on a forum where the right emotion is hard to convey :)
It should also be noted it wont be up to me or us what they bring,they are big boys and can decide for themselves what they want to bring.
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LOL... so JJ didn't actually SAY that Hot Springs is an overpriced hunk of plastic... ::) I think Chris is just play'n with ya JJ and sees that you didn't actually say that.
Anyway, back to the pricing "concerns" of some... WHO CARES? If one dealer plays a stupid game at this or ANY event, their sales will show the result of a poor decision. Let any of 'em come to it with whatever pricing strategy they want I say! Consumers know these games and I doubt that any strong dealer will play the HUGE mark 'em up - mark 'em down game. If I were one of those dealers selling against that, I'd have a field day and some pretty sweet sales too! That's so damn easy to sell against that I doubt anyone would come to an event like that with such a feeble pricing strategy... ::)
There's no need for anyone to know what the others are coming in with. Bring your best pricing and have fun!!
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I'll try to make this simple for some of you....
1. Jim wants to have a spa battle....I read this and think "That sounds cool."
2. Jim says "We will all have to follow some kind of pricing/guidelines/rules".....NOT cool, possibly illegal, assuredly unethical in regards to the customers.
3. I propose a simple solution to avoid ramifications of #2....it manages to fly right over the heads of some. Asshattery commences on cue from the usual place.
4. Obfuscation ensues and...once again...some can't seem to think their way past the first layer of this decidedly more complex scenario...so, they get stuck on MSRP and that's where they'll probably stay.
5. Some seem to think that I'm concerned about "pricing" and "fairness". Hell NO! From the get go, I say line them up, give it your best shot and price, and may the best product win. THAT is capitalism and THAT is fair to the customers. Anything else smacks of collusion.
6. The crux of the whole thread is plain as day for those who are able to look past their nose.
Jim, I hope you're able to pull this off in an ethical and legal fashion. I think it's a great idea if you can make it work. I'm anxious (as I know you are since it was the point of your thread) to hear what ideas some of the learned professionals have to offer.
Good luck!
Terminator
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It is going to take me days to comprehend the deep meanings of this thread. Since I don't smoke cubans, I wish I had a spa in the backyard so I could relax and take it all in.
Scott :-?
sounds like a little more than cubans were smokin to me. :o
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sounds like a little more than cubans were smokin to me. :o
OK, so they are very small cubans.. ;D ;D ;D
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LOL... so JJ didn't actually SAY that Hot Springs is an overpriced hunk of plastic... ::) I think Chris is just play'n with ya JJ and sees that you didn't actually say that.
I made the mistake of wasting 5 or 10 minutes of my life looking through that thread yesterday to see what the hoopla was all about. In the post Swell quoted JJ may have mentioned the "hunk of plastic" but in the previous post to that JJ made some statement about his sales presentation and how HS was overpriced and blah, blah, blah. It wasn't really anything that isn't said from time to time by some salespeople on showroom floors about their competition, just salesmanship mixed with some booze (according to Jaboozie Gin himself). ;)
If that's the worst thing he's got to say he'll never be a candidate to become a H@^#N rep!!
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FYI,
From my experience on the message boards when the grammatical and spelling police arrive, usually that poster has been had.
What??? :-?
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What??? :-?
If you look at he quoted section of my post it points to Termie bashing my grammer. Not a big deal, I know that I dont type the best grammer. Its just funny to me that hes the grammer police and has to call me out on it, thats all. Just more dumbassery as some would say!
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I'll try to make this simple for some of you....
1. Jim wants to have a spa battle....I read this and think "That sounds cool."
2. Jim says "We will all have to follow some kind of pricing/guidelines/rules".....NOT cool, possibly illegal, assuredly unethical in regards to the customers.
3. I propose a simple solution to avoid ramifications of #2....it manages to fly right over the heads of some. Asshattery commences on cue from the usual place.
4. Obfuscation ensues and...once again...some can't seem to think their way past the first layer of this decidedly more complex scenario...so, they get stuck on MSRP and that's where they'll probably stay.
5. Some seem to think that I'm concerned about "pricing" and "fairness". Hell NO! From the get go, I say line them up, give it your best shot and price, and may the best product win. THAT is capitalism and THAT is fair to the customers. Anything else smacks of collusion.
6. The crux of the whole thread is plain as day for those who are able to look past their nose.
Jim, I hope you're able to pull this off in an ethical and legal fashion. I think it's a great idea if you can make it work. I'm anxious (as I know you are since it was the point of your thread) to hear what ideas some of the learned professionals have to offer.
Good luck!
Terminator
Anyone else feeling like they're being spoken down to like a small child? I just wish I was as smart as you Chris while mixing in "pleasantries" with your scolding of the less educated and dimwitted.
I guess we just ain’t so darn sharp in comprehending them big ’ol words you like to use… It confuses us I guess. I’ll try harder from now on and get my thesaurus out for future posts… …
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The title of this thread is "Now for something completely different". It makes me think of the comment from Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Now for something completely different I will pull a rabbit out of my hat..... ;D
JJ good Luck with your sales event. I hope all of the dealers sell lots of tubs.
Scott :)
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Anyone else feeling like they're being spoken down to like a small child? I just wish I was as smart as you Chris while mixing in "pleasantries" with your scolding of the less educated and dimwitted.
I guess we just ain’t so darn sharp in comprehending them big ’ol words you like to use… It confuses us I guess. I’ll try harder from now on and get my thesaurus out for future posts… …
It's funny that you say that Steve. Terms post reminded me of that dorky kid in my high school speech class where the teacher told him to redo his paper and use his thesaurus a little more and to use some bigger words. Then the kid came back and changed damn near every word to a bigger word and made it worse than before and had to redo it again. I'm sure Terms thesaurus isn’t as dusty as it was before his long winded rant.
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I'll try to make this simple for some of you....
2. Jim says "We will all have to follow some kind of pricing/guidelines/rules".....NOT cool, possibly illegal, assuredly unethical in regards to the customers.
Your reading more into this than you need to, nothing is set yet and as I mentioned I may not even have a say in this, I don't own the sundance, or HS dealership.
3. I propose a simple solution to avoid ramifications of #2....it manages to fly right over the heads of some. Asshattery commences on cue from the usual place.
4. Obfuscation ensues and...once again...some can't seem to think their way past the first layer of this decidedly more complex scenario...so, they get stuck on MSRP and that's where they'll probably stay.
5. Some seem to think that I'm concerned about "pricing" and "fairness". Hell NO! From the get go, I say line them up, give it your best shot and price, and may the best product win. THAT is capitalism and THAT is fair to the customers. Anything else smacks of collusion.
6. The crux of the whole thread is plain as day for those who are able to look past their nose.
thems a lot a big words their laddy, were nothing but humble Pirates.
And I would rather see names than (some seem) (those) and (their noses) Specially if it me.
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::)
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The title of this thread is "Now for something completely different". It makes me think of the comment from Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Scott :)
Actually from Monty Python. Not really to far off from what this thread has become.
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::)
::) Good one!
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Anyone else feeling like they're being spoken down to like a small child? I just wish I was as smart as you Chris while mixing in "pleasantries" with your scolding of the less educated and dimwitted.
I guess we just ain’t so darn sharp in comprehending them big ’ol words you like to use… It confuses us I guess. I’ll try harder from now on and get my thesaurus out for future posts… …
As I had mentioned previously, we actually do dissect his posts for not only his most excellent use of interesting adjectives, but his grammer as well. Term also has excellent spelling skills. I have never seen him misuse an apostrophe or leave one out and he doesn't spell things wrong. It all makes for a mostly informative and secondly a humorous post. It's fun to read, if you can just try to understand those big, thesaurus words...Drive around someday with your kids in the car and tune in to NPR--have them look up some of the new "big" words they hear.
I'm sure it helps his sales too, when he is able to present himself as the well-rounded, educated man he is. I tell you what, I would have second thoughts buying a hot tub from someone who couldn't spell or speak without sounding like they didn't finish the 8th grade.
I know there are some deeper issues here with some of you, but let go and enjoy those posts that you wish you could write! ;D
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You know, in a different perspective, we're all just mostly plain old folk on this forum.
Yes, Chris, you are obviously well educated and I also appreciate your mannerisms and speak.
As far as big ol' words and salespeople, ok, everyone on here can tell, if not already know, I am a nurse. I work in an ICU and deal with many family members that
1: are overwhelmed
2: Not educated in the medical field (i.e., most people on this forum would hear the word "septic" and think of a septic tank)
3: Have little communication from a physician in a manner of speaking with the non-medical relatives/patients
4: have many, many questions that the nurse answers.
SO, if I were to use large, impressive words I would SOUND educated, may be educated, but my PEOPLE skills could be lacking as I may come off as egotistical, demeaning, or otherwise. And, if my patient care skills lack, well, it just don't matter WHAT you say!!
Thus, my prolonged rambling and run-on sentences come from 13 years of experience. But, I take care of my "peeps" as I call them, like I would want my family cared for. That, combined with the experience and knowledge of my profession, plus a good working relationship with docs, other nurses, dietary, social workers,... make me as best possible I can be.
Nutshell--I would rather deal with an average, humble Joe who knows his crap and has a sense of humor, than a thesaurus-wielding egomaniac (and that, Termie, IS NOT meant for you--just so you know.)
Thanks, off my soap box for now, good night kiddies, and don't cuss like the bad ol' nurse does. And, don't smoke. It's bad for you. Drinking and driving, too. :(
CHrisi, the insane nurse that likes her job :o ::) ;)
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addendum to previous post:
since educational tools are used here, kids, listen to your mom and dad, respect your elders, chivalry is not dead, and do unto others and you would have done to you. And, again, don't smoke. ;)
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Just think this whole conversation started with the idea of a big tent spa sale with some major brands attending. People we all must be hurting for some good conversation or something because this thread has covered a lot of ground.....
Scott ::)
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As I had mentioned previously, we actually do dissect his posts for not only his most excellent use of interesting adjectives, but his grammer as well. Term also has excellent spelling skills. I have never seen him misuse an apostrophe or leave one out and he doesn't spell things wrong. It all makes for a mostly informative and secondly a humorous post. It's fun to read, if you can just try to understand those big, thesaurus words...Drive around someday with your kids in the car and tune in to NPR--have them look up some of the new "big" words they hear.
I'm sure it helps his sales too, when he is able to present himself as the well-rounded, educated man he is. I tell you what, I would have second thoughts buying a hot tub from someone who couldn't spell or speak without sounding like they didn't finish the 8th grade.
I know there are some deeper issues here with some of you, but let go and enjoy those posts that you wish you could write! ;D
Term is awesome and I do respect what he stands for but we all have our specialties and I certainly don't pretend to be so high and mighty that I judge others by their incorrect spelling or lack or proper punctuations... ::) A little too shallow for my liking.
But you're right... maybe it's just all about jealousy.... ;D (GAWD I hope I spelled everything right!) :-/
I'm with the our gorgeous nurse on this one! ;)
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I think some folks around here need to get a sense of humor. ;D
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I think some folks around here need to get a sense of humor. ;D
Common Sense & good humor is what life is all about.
Oh then there is that other thing. You know what Curly said on City Slickers
Scott ;D
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"For Pete's Sake, [glow]Grow the Fudge Up [/glow]Term and DO UNTO OTHERS AND YOU WOULD HAVE DONE TO YOU. (boy, and I haven't even been to church in years, my bad). That type of behavior is a real turn-off for people looking to buy a tub. I would NEVER want to look at HotSprings now, even if they wanted to GIVE me one. >:("
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That's a mature stance. ::)
I think the event sounds like a good idea, but I see Term's point that if you have an 'agreement' about pricing it'll stink of a fix. I imagine what you're referring to is a gentleman's agreement that no one drop their pants just to try to sell more tubs; but if you all know each other there shouldn't be any of that going on in the first place.
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[glow]That's a mature stance[/glow]. ::)[/glow]
I think the event sounds like a good idea, but I see Term's point that if you have an 'agreement' about pricing it'll stink of a fix. I imagine what you're referring to is a gentleman's agreement that no one drop their pants just to try to sell more tubs; but if you all know each other there shouldn't be any of that going on in the first place.
This, apparently said, since you are one of the HS guys. Maybe one of the respectable ones, but SOME others (insert here) bring the humble Joes' out there trying to make a decent living DOWN. Good luck, there, clownshoes, and stay humble.
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Since this thread is going to soon be in "dead horse" section, I'd like to make a
[size=24]PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT[/size]:
I have received PM's from many of you telling different sides of the story. This being said, I-----
--realize that I am a newcomer within the past few months to the forum and don't KNOW the WHOLE story.
--formulated my opinions based on what I have seen since then.
--apologize if any of you feel attacked. By me, or anyone else, (sorry drewstar, esp.--you did show your chivalrous and adult side ;))
and I will STFU and continue on my own spa search, help others when and where I can, laugh when it is appropriate, and let things, be what they are, a dead horse.
Chrisi===mom, nurse, defender of the little guy and happy to ignore all the comments made back and forth.
Good luck to the newbies ;)
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I think it would really generate alot more excitement at the multi vendor
Spa Tent Sale if an ultimate fighting ring was added to the tent
and the public could watch grown men from different spa makers beat
the snot out of each other. In this corner we have Hot Spring and in this
corner we have Thermospa!
;)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y273/ItsZep/action.gif)
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Geez Thermospa....go down on a knee or something before you get killed! ;D
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LOL... so JJ didn't actually SAY that Hot Springs is an overpriced hunk of plastic... ::)
:D What was the line from the old movie where the politican tells the press
"Now, now, I didn't call my opponent’s wife 'a diseased ridden tramp', I simply pointed out the large number of men she had casual sex with for money."
;D ;D
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http://www.poolspaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11601
Having read other posts about Mr J. A. I thought some of you might find this interesting. ;)
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The man has had some serious issues for a great many years without proper meds (maybe you can help?? ). He'll lie to you openly by telling you he's an engineer and then preach a passage from the Bible in the next sentence against people that lie... :-? WHACK JOB!
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I don't venture to that website, but have heard others speak of him here, was he ever a poster here???
Just an update on our battle of the brands. The Sundance dealer is hot to trot, we did hear from the HS dealer but he has not gotten back to us as of yet. In his defense he did just open a brand new store last month, the way sale's have been he may just hold off or he's been to busy getting the store going and just hasn't had time.
Either way sales/traffic are pretty sporadic for everyone around here. :'( Hey the sun just popped out for a brief moment!! :D DOH, now its gone. >:(
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I don't know if this will help or hurt - but I do hope it will help. This is a general statement, not aimed at any one person.
I have met a few of the folks who have been mentioned in negative terms in this post. I can tell you that they are fine people. I think that the problem here stems from the fact that so many of us have become familiar with each other's posting style and sense of humor. But that means that we tend to feel 'at home' and get goofy now and then, and most of us know it is tongue-in-cheek while others get their feelings hurt and/or feel the need to come to the defense of those who were the brunt of the humor. That is both noble and heroic in my way of thinking, and I do not want to make any of you feel bad over any of it.
Personally, I like any kind of attention, so you can aim it at me if you like. I'll even put my wife on the computer to give you some extra material if you need. Rich, deep caverns of material exist, I assure you, and you don't even have to use PhotoShop to make me look strange in a picture. I like what I sell - big boxes of relaxing, hot water. I don't claim my brand is the best tub on the planet, though I might imply that from time to time, ;D ;D ;D but I do think it's a fine product that you could be proud to own.
Frankly, after all these years on these boards I have been called just about everything a human mind can think up, and a lot of things normal folks would never even dream of nor imagine. I'm still alive, still proud of my kids, best friends with my wife, active in my church and involved in our community. I have never been taken to court, I have a clean driving record, I don't owe the IRS nor do I have any judgments against me from family members, neighbors or former employees. These boards are an outlet for me to help folks, not a place I come to get my identity.
As I said at the top - I don't know if that helps, but I hope it does. Keep perspective, keep smiling, and assume humor is at the base of all posts, you'll do well.
8-)
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Jim,
Battle of the brands sounds like a great idea and I'm glad to hear it is coming together. Sure would be fun to attend even though we already bought a tub.
Good luck,
Fred
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I don't know if this will help or hurt - but I do hope it will help. This is a general statement, not aimed at any one person.
I have met a few of the folks who have been mentioned in negative terms in this post. I can tell you that they are fine people. I think that the problem here stems from the fact that so many of us have become familiar with each other's posting style and sense of humor. But that means that we tend to feel 'at home' and get goofy now and then, and most of us know it is tongue-in-cheek while others get their feelings hurt and/or feel the need to come to the defense of those who were the brunt of the humor. That is both noble and heroic in my way of thinking, and I do not want to make any of you feel bad over any of it.
Personally, I like any kind of attention, so you can aim it at me if you like. I'll even put my wife on the computer to give you some extra material if you need. Rich, deep caverns of material exist, I assure you, and you don't even have to use PhotoShop to make me look strange in a picture. I like what I sell - big boxes of relaxing, hot water. I don't claim my brand is the best tub on the planet, though I might imply that from time to time, ;D ;D ;D but I do think it's a fine product that you could be proud to own.
Frankly, after all these years on these boards I have been called just about everything a human mind can think up, and a lot of things normal folks would never even dream of nor imagine. I'm still alive, still proud of my kids, best friends with my wife, active in my church and involved in our community. I have never been taken to court, I have a clean driving record, I don't owe the IRS nor do I have any judgments against me from family members, neighbors or former employees. These boards are an outlet for me to help folks, not a place I come to get my identity.
As I said at the top - I don't know if that helps, but I hope it does. Keep perspective, keep smiling, and assume humor is at the base of all posts, you'll do well.
8-)
Chas,
Very well stated. I am sure I over-reacted, but sometimes my gut instinct flares up. I have never tolerated abuse (just using the term for lack of shorter/better words) by others and I have long felt some on the forum are often the brunt of jokes, and both have been helpful to me on my search. Everyone here has been helpful, even Chris, though I seem tp have come down on him quite harshly, and again, apologize for angry comments I made, though I still defend my desire to have defended WB and GA. I, for one, came to the forum seeking guidance. I will say, you always seem to be very fair. SO, all, I apologize once more about my outbursts and will let it go.
Stay humble, all.
Chrisi.
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Just for the record......
After reading your post, I extracted a 1991 Perdoma Churchill out of the humidor, went outside and sat in the sun on this glorious East Texas Saturday and did some serious ponderin' <colloquialism> on your statement for an hour or so.
Whilst enjoyin' <colloquialism> the slight breeze and still reveling in the tingling of my loins <dramatic irony> from the HotSpring Aria I had just graciously bestowed upon another thrilled <dramatic irony> customer, I thunk some deep thoughts <colloquialism imbedded in irony> about the "whole MSRP thing" and why it is simply another brilliant idea regurgitated from the depths of my inner machinations <self-deprecation>. And I am pleased to share it with you....
You see, in spite of the serious tone one would expect from a business as vital to mankind as selling hot tubs for a profit <sarcasm>, I was able to remind myself (through no small effort, believe me you <self-deprecation and jocularity>) that the MSRP is an ignis fatuus <feigned pompousness> benchmark by which a manufacturer places inherent value upon the products they produce. Some companies place a higher value than others do and the unitiated public is generally not privy to the actual cost of these products due to the sensitivity of this information to the parties involved. One can employ reasonable deductive facilities to make an educated guess and thereby reach a somewhat plausible determination of the value of said products, in this instance portable spas.
I pondered and postulated and damn near flagellated myself <self deprecation and jocularity> over your proposed event and the ensuing response, all the while neglecting the full enjoyment of my rapidly dwindling hand-rolled companion <jocularity>. Sez I to myself and no other "If good ol' JJ truly wants to have a democratically governed spalapalooza with his friends, then what better format than to sell the spas upon their inherent value as determined by the respective manufacturers?"
As always, I found myself easily amazed at myself as I closed my eyes and ears and MIND <overt and intentional self-deprecation and dramatic irony> and envisioned your post from some time ago "I just tell customers that HotSprings are overpriced hunks of plastic" or some semblance thereof written in a not-too-bygone era. If that be so, then sell thine products by their MSRP and pit your skills of high-end hydrotherapy pontification against your brethren in a battle to justify the differences betwixt the products based upon their known "value". I'd give a good dollar or two to enjoy the spectacle that would unfold!
Only in this fashion can true democracy flourish throughout the spa industry....or, at least in ya'lls proposed spa extravaganza <lampoon>.
Term
Anyways...it was supposed to be exhorbinantly tounge in cheek and somewhat humorous and thought-provoking, which I reckon it weren't to all. <colloquialism>.
:)
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New keyboard on order. That's five you owe me now Chris!!!
8-)