Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Deltanex on April 03, 2008, 03:48:33 pm
-
Hello everyone,
Does any one know how much Kilowatt a caldera Tahitian uses at 230 volts? We are currently installing our electrical cables and need to know this for our electrical installation. The dealer is somewhat slow so i thought lets ask the ones thet helped me over the past few days.
Regards,
Alexander
-
our in store test show that it pulls an average of 280kw per month at 102 degrees with an avg ambient temp of 68 degrees.
btw why do you need to know the kilowatts for the electrical install?
Did your dealer give you the pre-delivery booklet with the wiring diagram?
-
I see that spas use 220V, 230V, and 240V systems. What's up with that?
220, 221, whatever it takes......
-
220v, 230v, and 240v are all labels for the same type of voltage. As with 110v, 115v, and 120v.
Realistically, within their groupings, there is little difference.
Actual voltage differences (when minor) are common and of little or no effect on the systems they power.
Deltanex,
I would also suggest looking at an online owners' manual. I'd try to answer your question, but I am not a Caldera expert. If someone else will post the basic requirements (disconnects and amperages) - I would be happy to recommend the proper size wire.
-
Here you go - Page 11
http://www.calderaspas.com/cgi-bin/download.cgi?c=4&f=pdfs/caldera_pre-delivery_instructions08.pdf
-
This is an interesting question as an electrician should have some idea about wiring a large electrical device.
If you assume a 60 Amp 230 Volt device (a large tub) then the Volt Amps (AC version of Watts) is 60 x 230 = 13,800VA which is 13.8KVA
This seems to go more in depth if anyone cares to look except they are not giving specific calculations except for a computer: http://www.etasys.com/Main/ABCs/CalcVAWATTS.asp
-
Well let me explain my question al little more.
I understand that our Spa (to be..) needs an 220-230-240 volts connections with respectively 25 and 16 Amps.
Our home has an one fase main hookup of 40 amps and has 7 breakers for the inhome connections. We now have the following problem. When installing the Spa we wil add two breakers one of 25 and one of 16 Amps.
The question is; Will our main connection be able to provide al the power consumption or will it blow our meter of the wall?
Regards,
Alexander
-
A 40 amp main breaker is small, really small.
What else are you running electrically wise in the house?
Anything large - AC units, electric dryer, electric stove is drawing a lot of electricity.
-
I also thought is was small.
We are using about 12 Kilowatts a day.
Whe use that to run our washingmachine, dryer, dishwasher, television, beamer, tree computers, fridge, oven and some lights. We do not use that many at ones. Whe do however use gas for cooking and heating.
-
Wow, 40 amp main is really small.
Is there any way to have it upgraded? That may be the best option.
The total requirements on the spa exceed 40 amps - but, it is not likely to truly draw very close to 40 amps very often.
If no change is made, you will probably experience an increase in your main breaker tripping. I can't say how often, but your total household amp draw will at times be more than your main is designed to allow.
-
I also thought is was small.
We are using about 12 Kilowatts a day.
Whe use that to run our washingmachine, dryer, dishwasher, television, beamer, tree computers, fridge, oven and some lights. We do not use that many at ones. Whe do however use gas for cooking and heating.
Oven and dryer are the big draw ... they are probably 20 amp each, maybe more, I don't know what a beamer is so that may or may not be a heavy draw item. Everything else is not too bad.
One of the problems is as you approach the capacity of a breaker - any breaker, it starts to heat up. As it heats up it is more prone to failure as it fails more often it tends to get weaker. It sounds like you aren't in the States but here we have an 80% rule on any circuit except for the main breaker.
Upgrading the main breaker is the way to go.
-
Vinny,
That is a great explanation!
-
What part of the UK are you in?
8-)
-
Thanks sofar.
We are living in the Netherlands. It is possible to upgrade the main however that will mean we upgrade from a one fase system to a three fase. I do not know the implications of that so i am a bit reluctant towards that.
-
If you really have 40 amp service to your home, you're very under powered, and I'd not consider installing anythning like a spa. Typically, a 220v spa would require a 50 amp (mine needs a 60 amp) breaker, and you'd be very close to demanding more power than you have for supply.
I'd get a service up grade to no less than 100 amps.
Houses in this part of the contry can't be built these days with less than 150 amp service. And 200 is not uncommon.
Thing might be a bit different in your country, however. But do get the opinion of a qualified electrician. It's not worth risking your home to a fire.
-
Specs and electrical requirements are very different in Europe.
We would call that spa an "Export Spec."
Since you run 220 to everything, it is about the same as having an 80 amp main here in the US. That's not as bad as it seems.
You should go ahead and get your electrician and your Caldera Dealer together.
8-)
-
Specs and electrical requirements are very different in Europe.
We would call that spa an "Export Spec."
Since you run 220 to everything, it is about the same as having an 80 amp main here in the US. That's not as bad as it seems.
You should go ahead and get your electrician and your Caldera Dealer together.
8-)
OK, now I have questions ...
If the oven and dryer are electric they and if they are 20 amps each (don't have either so I can't say, here in the States they put a HUGE plug on it - I'm thinking 35 or 40 amps) so that would be 40 amps with both running - the amount of the 40 amp breaker. Add a couple of other things and then maybe another 5 amps ... we are now at 45 amps (using European standards of 220 volt service) which is 5 amps over the main breaker.I will agree that it probably could handle that load. Am I missing something?
If you add another device that has a high current draw - a tub - and it needs 50 amps (for sake of argument - what does it really need/) then you are approaching 95 amps, 220 Volt on a 40 amp 220 volt main breaker. This is assuming that everything is on at the same time - which might or might not happen.
How much more can a 40 amp breaker hold? IMO not much more than 45 amps running 220 volts.
80 amps here is not a large breaker panel anymore. A friend of mine who is an electrician explained that older houses had smaller circuits because they didn't use the amounts of electricity that we use today (same thing with closets - they had less clothes).
I would certainly get someone who's qualified (I am not) to analyze the power consumption af the house and answer the question. I would not put a tub on a small circuit breaker but I am very conservitive when talking about electrical capacity.
-
Deltanex,
Going to 3 phase should provide nothing but benefits (except for the initial investment), and will probably increase the value of your home.
Chas,
I shouldn't have missed the European standard one phase 220v. This makes a difference in amps needed for some things as Watts = Amps x Volts. So, you're right about the 80 amp example - making this a bit more minor.
Vinny,
If a 40 amp breaker does not trip at 40 amps, then it is not functioning correctly. A 40 amp breaker is designed to trip due to the heat created at 40 amps. Anything over 40 amps is a potential hazard in that case. That's why we use the breaker - for protection from damage, fire, electrocution. If a 40 amp breaker allows 45 amps, your safety is not functioning correctly.
All things considered, an upgrade is most likely the best total solution.
-
I asked my questions because in my head to say it's ok to add the spa just doesn't seem right.
As far as being 40 amp or 80 amp - we are talking 220 volts and 220 volts 40 amp is just that, it is not 120 volt 80 amp. I believe that in Europe they don't use the 120 volt standard at all. Running 220 volt appliances drawing 220 volt current gives the final rating of the panel. I upgraded to a 200 amp panel to get the most out of current and future power requirements knowing that it will be split between 120 volt and 220 volt appliances.
Breakers are capable of supplying a little more current than they're rated. For some reason main breakers can handle higher than rated loads. Cola, who posts here is an industrial electrician and he would say something to this effect on how long you can get by with over amping a circuit. Yes it will heat up but it can be done ... and this is his business to know this stuff and not the average person's.
Unless the Caldera is a 220 volt 10 amp spa I doubt it would be safe to have it installed in the current box. Imagine the tub turning on to heat with the oven on while drying clothes and you now have a overly high current situation.
Not trying to be a PITA but "thinking out loud" to get a correct answer.
-
Actually some of our Export models have 1500 watt heaters. That's 1500 watts on a 220 line, so it only draws 6+ amps for the heater. The pumps are different as well - for one thing they are Fully Enclosed Fan Cooled, and the 50 hz does some funny things with the HP they can produce per watt consumed.
All in all, I think the best bet is to get the local dealer and electrician together.
8-)
-
I agree with Chas. Most of us here in the good ol' U. S. of A. know very little about European power requirements. I just know that my wife's hair dryer fried 3 transformers last time we were over there.
Deltanex, the best advice is to speak with your dealer and your electrician - if possible at the same time - and determine the best course of action. I know Caldera's system in the EU is a hertz based system, so most of us here in the States are not familiar with the particulars.
Good luck.