Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Deltanex on March 28, 2008, 08:22:39 am
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Hello everyone,
Whe are currently desciding between a Sunbelt Spa and the Caldera Tahitian. In response to an earlier post i was told that (You bether go for te real deal if the price difference is small) we are now seriously thinking of buying a Caldera Tahitian. However I understand that Caldera still uses wood in its frame and possibly as a base. Can anyone tell me if this is true and could this pose a potential problem in a wet climate?
Regards,
Alexander
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What is wrong with using wood? I think most of the major manufacturers use wood.
In addition, I really can’t see there being a person on this forum that would recommend the Sunbelt over the Caldera. Just one person’s opinion.
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Well it seams to me wooden base and frame would last much shorter than plastic. I also read this between the lines of the warranty. Caldera's structural warranty is 10 years whereas Sunbelts is a lifetime.
Do not get me wrong its not a statement it is a question.
Regards
Alexander
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I think you are focusing on the parts that don’t fail like the structure instead of the items that do fail like the pumps, heaters, and motors. These items appear to have a prorated warranty on these items for the Sunbelt spa.
Additionally, the Sunbelt warranty excludes the pump seal. This item is about 10 bucks retail, but it is a well known way for a manufacturer to void a warranty on the motor. It is under the wearable components section. Wearable components are common in spa warranties, but the details can change it substantially.
One other thing I noticed, why is there only a one year warranty on the blower?
This was the warranty I was looking at: http://sunbeltspas.com/data/Premium.pdf
Always look at the details…
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Well it seams to me wooden base and frame would last much shorter than plastic. I also read this between the lines of the warranty. Caldera's structural warranty is 10 years whereas Sunbelts is a lifetime.
Do not get me wrong its not a statement it is a question.
Regards
Alexander
Good spas that last 15, 18, 20 years very rarely go to the landfill due to frame issues. As long as the wood base is pressure treated it'll be fine for a long time and Caldera has a hard plastic under that bottom frame. I'm not sure what Sunbelt uses because they are rarely discussed on this site. Does anyone know them well enough to comment?
There are multipel frame options out there but they all work. If they didn't the manufacturer would dump the old way. Look for reasons to decide which spa you prefer, don't let salesmen give you their reasons why you shouldn't buy the other dealers brand.
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Ok.. I think i have got the idea about the wooden parts. Thanks for setting me straight.
About the warranty ishue however.. In the case of Sunbelt All parts are from very well known manufacturers like Balboa, Aqua-Flo and Waterway. So in case of any problems. I shoeld be able to service it my self. With Caldera this is not the case.(i think)
Are there happy Tahitian users out there that have that model for longer than a year and want to give me some comment on their experiance?
Regards,
Alexander
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Ok.. I think i have got the idea about the wooden parts. Thanks for setting me straight.
In the case of Sunbelt All parts are from very well known manufacturers like Balboa, Aqua-Flo and Waterway.
Alexander
Please don't make the mistake of thinking that just because a part is from company XYZ it's as good as any product from company XYZ. Most all companies make many different products, of VARYING qualities (AND price points!). While company XYZ may make the best "whatever" in the world, they may also make another product that does exactly the same thing, but is of such low quality it's the worst in the world....But, it's cheap, and has a highly recognizable name :-)
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Hello everyone,
We are currently deciding between a Sunbelt Spa and the Caldera Tahitian. In response to an earlier post i was told that (You bether go for te real deal if the price difference is small) we are now seriously thinking of buying a Caldera Tahitian. However I understand that Caldera still uses wood in its frame and possibly as a base. Can anyone tell me if this is true and could this pose a potential problem in a wet climate?
Regards,
Alexander
Alexander,
There is a LOT of difference between a Sunbelt and a Caldera. As you read these internet forums more and more you will begin to realize that there is a distinct difference between these two products and therefore they each have a different market value. The Caldera is made by the same company that makes Hot Springs, Watkins whereas the Sunbelt is made by...well, a MUCH lower end manufacturer who uses fairly common industry parts (i.e. Balboa).
It's like you are comparing a Lexus to a Scion. Are they both cars? Sure . Are they equal? No. Does a Scion use the industry-acceptable parts that are used in a majority of cars? Sure, like GM it uses Delco radios but their use of such industry standard radios does not (by inference) lend any credibility to the Scion line. The Scion is a "decent" cars and is worth every bit of the $15K that manufacturer is asking for it. On the other hand, the Lexus GS is also a nice car but it's going to cost you about twice or even three times as much. Is there a reason it cost more? Certainly, and some people pay it while others are fine with a Scion. Now, the only problem here is if they were tryign to charge you Lexus prices for a Scion product. That is what you have with your comparison. These two products (Caldera vs. Sun Belt) are NOT in the same league and therefore should NOT be priced the same. However, Hot Tub dealers are a predatory bunch and will try to tell you that they are comparable when in fact, they are not (features, function, quality, warranty, etc).
As far as a wood base goes... Most Mfg's use a wood base (including Sun Belt). The only mfg that I am familiar with that uses any thing else is Coleman (who uses metal structure). This may be both good and bad. The good is that metal doesn't deteriorate like wood "may". However, metal can rust and rusting makes the joints weaker. Sure, the metal peices themselves may be galvanized but what about the welds? Additionally, loose metal can make noise and in the end may not provide you what you are expecting (longer life) and often don't have a warranty to protect you 10 or 12 years down the line. Now, if they are both wood (SunBelt & Caldera), they may not be the same protections for both. I've seen a ten year old Sunbelt that simply fell apart when we tried to move it (a friends) and then I've also seen a 10 year old Caldera that we were able to flip on it's side and move it with no problems what-so-ever (Helped a neighbor buy a used one). So, just being wood vs. wood is like the prior posters stated... it may be a similar material but there is a significant difference in the quality of the materials.
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ndabunka Thanks for your comment. I get your point. And because whe just did some investigation into the Dutch dealers and asked them all about their prices we got the price down about 3500 dollars US.
I think it is a lot of difference because the Caldera and Sunbelt we are comparing are now in the same price range only a 750 dollar difference. This is good and makes our choice a lot easyer. However it worries us alwell because The Netherlands is a small country and the difference between the four dealers is as much as 2500 Euro's (about 3750 dollars). Sunbelt however is priced the same everywhere.
It is very good to hear everyone being so possitive about Caldera. We Thank everyone on being so concrete.
The only thing remaining is that we would like to hear some expereance with te Tahitian model.
Regards,
Alexander
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ndabunka Thanks for your comment. I get your point. And because whe just did some investigation into the Dutch dealers and asked them all about their prices we got the price down about 3500 dollars US.
I think it is a lot of difference because the Caldera and Sunbelt we are comparing are now in the same price range only a 750 dollar difference. This is good and makes our choice a lot easier. However it worries us as well because The Netherlands is a small country and the difference between the four dealers is as much as 2500 Euro's (about 3750 dollars). Sunbelt however is priced the same everywhere.
It is very good to hear everyone being so possitive about Caldera. We Thank everyone on being so concrete.
The only thing remaining is that we would like to hear some expereance with te Tahitian model.
Regards,
Alexander
Alexander - The Tahitian has been around a while (this is good). In fact, it was the model I was considering in the Caldera line when I bought my Jacuzzi J-365. Both were "open seating" with a lounger and similarly priced. In the end, I bought the Jacuzzi because it was 200 gallons larger and a better/more informed dealer. It also just happens that the dealer I bought my Jacuzzi from also sold the Sun Belt as their low cost line at the time (Spa Mart here in Charlotte, NC). The equivalent Sun Belt model was about 30% less expensive than the J-365. Did you look at the cost of either the Sundance (Cameo) and/or the Jacuzzi equivalents in your market?
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Alexander,
There is a LOT of difference between a Sunbelt and a Caldera. As you read these internet forums more and more you will begin to realize that there is a distinct difference between these two products and therefore they each have a different market value. The Caldera is made by the same company that makes Hot Springs, Watkins whereas the Sunbelt is made by...well, a MUCH lower end manufacturer who uses fairly common industry parts (i.e. Balboa).
It's like you are comparing a Lexus to a Scion. Are they both cars? Sure . Are they equal? No. Does a Scion use the industry-acceptable parts that are used in a majority of cars? Sure, like GM it uses Delco radios but their use of such industry standard radios does not (by inference) lend any credibility to the Scion line. The Scion is a "decent" cars and is worth every bit of the $15K that manufacturer is asking for it. On the other hand, the Lexus GS is also a nice car but it's going to cost you about twice or even three times as much. Is there a reason it cost more? Certainly, and some people pay it while others are fine with a Scion. Now, the only problem here is if they were tryign to charge you Lexus prices for a Scion product. That is what you have with your comparison. These two products (Caldera vs. Sun Belt) are NOT in the same league and therefore should NOT be priced the same. However, Hot Tub dealers are a predatory bunch and will try to tell you that they are comparable when in fact, they are not (features, function, quality, warranty, etc).
As far as a wood base goes... Most Mfg's use a wood base (including Sun Belt). The only mfg that I am familiar with that uses any thing else is Coleman (who uses metal structure). This may be both good and bad. The good is that metal doesn't deteriorate like wood "may". However, metal can rust and rusting makes the joints weaker. Sure, the metal peices themselves may be galvanized but what about the welds? Additionally, loose metal can make noise and in the end may not provide you what you are expecting (longer life) and often don't have a warranty to protect you 10 or 12 years down the line. Now, if they are both wood (SunBelt & Caldera), they may not be the same protections for both. I've seen a ten year old Sunbelt that simply fell apart when we tried to move it (a friends) and then I've also seen a 10 year old Caldera that we were able to flip on it's side and move it with no problems what-so-ever (Helped a neighbor buy a used one). So, just being wood vs. wood is like the prior posters stated... it may be a similar material but there is a significant difference in the quality of the materials.
Actually a lot of manufacturers are going to a "abs" base that is better than a wood or foam floor. It seals out the spa and keeps the moisture, rodents, and bugs out of your spa. Its definetely nice feature. Arctic Spas actually uses a fiberglass floor that seals all of those things out and fully supports the spa so their is no need for a concrete or wood deck for support.
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Hi all!
SInce we are on the subjects of Calderas, I have a question. When on the website, it seems ONLY the Aquatic Melodies series has the only 2 models available with a stereo. Which, IMO, doesn't leave much options on other models, and you are limited to just those 2. Can a Caldera dealer/rep please verify or clarify for me?? I wold be interested in the Niagara.
Still looking at J470 and Arctic Tundra and Dynasty Caspian 55, yet...(and if an Artesian dealer pops up in the area, them too!!)
Thanks all!!
PS--Good luck Deltanex---this s**t gets overwhelming!!
Chrisi
WWHT
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Chrisi,
Have you looked at Sundance? I have liked Jacuzzi and Sundance the best so far.
Scott ::)
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Chrisi,
Have you looked at Sundance? I have liked Jacuzzi and Sundance the best so far.
Scott ::)
We did, and didn't care much for them. My hubby was too broad-ahouldered for those. We almost wet-tested the Maxxus, but didn't since we weren' interested.
We may take a trip tomorrow and check out the JQZ j470 and re-evaluate looking at Caldera. That is why I was hoping a Caldera rep would reply about the stereos (are they ONLY available on the Aquatic Melodies??) I am waiting to hear from our Arctic dealer as well, to see if they have a Tundra.
I'll let you know what occurs.
PS we also looked at Cal spa, they had an AWESOME model (don't ask which one, I can't remember) but again, hubby didn't fit right in the seats.
There is a PDC spa dealer in the area but that is a brand I haven't seen mentioned on the forum. Anyone with thoughts/concerns???
Thanks--
Chrisi
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Hi Chrisi,
I'm not a Caldera dealer, just a customer. I bought a Niagara four months ago, and as far as I know, the only way to get a stereo from the factory in a Caldera is by ordering one of the Aquatic Melodies spas. And as you have found out, there is not currently an AM version of the Niagara. The Aspire is the AM version of the Hawaiian, with a couple of upgrades from the Hawaiian (aux control panel and spa-glo lighting). This is a somewhat similar design to the Niagara, but slightly smaller and without the mini-lounge/foot jets.
-Russ
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Thnaks Russ, I had posted the same question in other threads as well. That is what we thought, but since 2008's have come out, we were hoping some different models/choices/upgrades did as well. Is your tub an '07 or '08?? We ned the bigger Niagara, as well.
Thx again
Chrisi :)
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My Niagara is a 2007. I can't speak to whether anything has changed for 2008.
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Having since looked again at the caldera site, the only other spas in their line are the C45S and C30S, which have stereos, but that must be it. :(
and the search and debate goes on....
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Chrisi,
How critical is the stereo in your mind?
And I think it's pretty funny, when we were searching, it came down to the Caldera Niagara and the Artesian Piper Glen (2 of your favs). And we went with the Caldera because the dealer was closer. Pretty ironic, eh?
-Russ
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I recently talked with an Artesian dealer, who was, like, "What the hell you want a stereo for???" This guy is 3 hours away, and has a PG on the floor. We want a stereo, in the spa, so we don't have to get out and change stations, or get shocked on a "boombox" like this guy suggested. Yes, to answer everyones question about a home stereo, we have an awesome Pioneer Elite with massive Cerwin Vega speakers (I am sure that will lead to another forum) but it is stupid, IMHO, to try to run wires to teeny little "outdoor rock" speakers. And then, I know the remote (not waterproof) won't even reach.
So,.... aside from that , the Niagara just doesn't meet what we are looking for jet wise as well--lots of leg and foot action!!
On of my other faves--the Clearwater Orlando--which is what started my "Salesperson issues" thread, and the Arctic Tundra, which I have yet to see in person. I am sure it will be out of my league, price wise. Hubby is eyeing up the JQZ J470, since it has the footwell jets.
and the drama continues... :( ::)
Chrisi
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Hi all!
SInce we are on the subjects of Calderas, I have a question. When on the website, it seems ONLY the Aquatic Melodies series has the only 2 models available with a stereo. Which, IMO, doesn't leave much options on other models, and you are limited to just those 2. Can a Caldera dealer/rep please verify or clarify for me?? I wold be interested in the Niagara.
WWHT
Chrisi,
You can get music on all Caldera Spas. It is a new option for 2008, and dealers may not be aware of it. http://www.calderaspas.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tubs/accessories_spa_music.html
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It has been a while since we chatted with our Caldera guy, it may warrant a visit again, I think he was talking about that option coming soon way back then, just can't decide if Caldera is what I really want, seat and jet action wise.
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The stereo option was a recent announcement. You can also now get a remote control for Caldera Spas. Both the remote and the stereo are available on Hot Spring as well. They are just re-labeled for Caldera.
I heard the stereo in Atlantic City at the show, it sounded really nice. The speakers fold down nearly flush and point away from the spa for use when you are not in the spa. Then, when you are in the spa, they fold up to point into the spa. These speakers are much better than the original speakers that came out with Hot Spring.
http://www.calderaspas.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tubs/accessories_spa_music.html
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Is it safe to assume this can work with Caldera spas made prior to 2008? Does anyone know the cost of the wireless Caldera system?
Also, how would it hold up to a New England winter?
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RK23--having recently gotten off the phone with our Caldera dealer, he said the new stereo option is an aftermarket wireless set up with 2 hang on speakers. It would seem to me that it could be purchased.
Still, not feeling much more than lukewarm about HS and Caldera. And, Sundance doesn't fit us well. :(
back to searching...
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Have you located the closest Arctic dealer?
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Have you located the closest Arctic dealer?
For us, it is about 30 min. away, which most of the dealers we have visited have been about the same. Interestingly, it is also along the same route as the Caldera/Coleman, Sundance/Cal Spas/Viking, and Clearwater/raindance/and whatever else they carry dealers. The Arctic dealer also sells Dynasty, which is another one we are interested in. Large, with nice neck jets, and cool lighted jets. I may be able to kill to birds with one stone--Arctic and Dynasty in one place. The Caldera/Coleman guy used to sell Artesian--hubby is interested in Piper Glen, but they stopped carrying for "personal reasons" related to business dealings with the manufacturer, not the product itself. Seems I have heard that on this forum befor--Swell tub had a dealer in Vegas, that stopped carrying that line for similiar reasons, I believe.
How about you--any luck with your choices--Caldera vs Piper??
Chrisi
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Chrisi,
You can get music on all Caldera Spas. It is a new option for 2008, and dealers may not be aware of it. http://www.calderaspas.com/Spa_Showroom_Hot_Tubs/accessories_spa_music.html
HTD--I was trying to reply to your PM--but kept getting an error message. SOrry.
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Have you located the closest Arctic dealer?
BTW--if you meant Artesian, we're talking about 3 hours away, and the guy already told us a service charge would be AT LEAST $150!! Too many expenses to deal with. If I would be willing to travel 3 hors to buy a product, there better be a service plan to back it up!!
WWHT
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RK23--having recently gotten off the phone with our Caldera dealer, he said the new stereo option is an aftermarket wireless set up with 2 hang on speakers. It would seem to me that it could be purchased.
Still, not feeling much more than lukewarm about HS and Caldera. And, Sundance doesn't fit us well. :(
back to searching...
I'm just curious why you are "lukewarm" towards Hot Spring and Caldera. I'm sure you've wet tested both, is that the reason? I have always found my Vanguard to be comfortable and have more than enough power for my 230 lb frame.
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As I have stated in other posts, I am not sure what your Vanguard does for you therapy wise and jet placement. TO try to sum it up in a nutshell-----
ALL spas have back therapy, and seems MOST now come with neck therapy. AND seems most spas have to have a lounger, which I don't want, to get Leg and Foot therapy. So, no, I haven;t wet tested anything but a Clearwater (and stillnot the model I wanted--which in part led to the "Salesperson" thread)----and I intend on wet testing more--waiting for the Dynasty and Arctic models I'm interested in, to be available.
But, Looking at HS and Cald. I don't see that much that impresses me for the lower parts--the Niagara would be the best of the 2, but you have to turn to the side and either beat the crap out of one kidney or turn the jets off.
When I see Clearwater Orlando, Arctic Tundra and Artesian Piper Glen, I get googly eyed thinking of my feet/legs being massaged intensely after a 12 hour shift in the ICU. (note the nurse smiley--thanks guys!)
Thy Dynasty Caspian 55, JaQZ J470,as well as the Limelight (though I haven't seen pix of the Pulse) are nice as well. THe downpoint to me with Limelight, and Coyote (arctic) are 3-yr wrranties.
I have to look at the whole pic and what I and my hubby want, and so far, HS and Caldera haven't quite been there.
I know that beats up you HS and Caldera dealers :-[ sorry--didn't mean to.
But, thanks for asking!! :)
Chrisi
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I forgot to add--we checked out Bullfrog as well, and unless they now come out with "leg jet pax" and Foot jet pax" I was on the fence about them.
D1 Amore bay had by far, for a dry test, the best fitting "massage seats" that we have sat in (haven't sat in the Tundra yet) but the other "barrier free" seat wasn't to our liking.
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We did, and didn't care much for them. My hubby was too broad-ahouldered for those. We almost wet-tested the Maxxus, but didn't since we weren' interested.
We may take a trip tomorrow and check out the JQZ j470 and re-evaluate looking at Caldera. That is why I was hoping a Caldera rep would reply about the stereos (are they ONLY available on the Aquatic Melodies??) I am waiting to hear from our Arctic dealer as well, to see if they have a Tundra.
I'll let you know what occurs.
PS we also looked at Cal spa, they had an AWESOME model (don't ask which one, I can't remember) but again, hubby didn't fit right in the seats.
There is a PDC spa dealer in the area but that is a brand I haven't seen mentioned on the forum. Anyone with thoughts/concerns???
Thanks--
Chrisi
Which model was the hubby too broad for?
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The Optima, for one!!! any of the other models, it became a moot point. Which is why we almost tested the Maxxus, but even with their best deal (which we didn't discuss) it wasn't a tub we were interested it, since we also have 8 yr old twins that would be in it, and that was almost too deep. Looked great, but few seating options, if I remember correctly. (BTW, we did like to looks of the Optima, but, as noted, looks aren't everything.)
Boy--I know that last BTW [smiley=smiley_up.gif]statement will come back to haunt me [smiley=wink.gif] [smiley=lolk.gif] [smiley=evil.gif]
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I didn't read the Salesperson Issues thread. By the time I saw it, it was already too long and I didn't have time to catch up.
I understand what you are saying about the looks of those spas. As for any spa, you obviously know by now the importance of wet testing. Don't rule out any brand just on the basis of what it looks like it might do.
I have always found the Niagara to fully meet the needs of many people. Based on your comments, I would certainly try wet testing that one - as well as the others you mentioned.
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Chrisi,
It sounds like your therapy "wish list" is similar to my wife's -- foot and leg jets. Mine is neck/shoulders. If you have a dealer nearby, I would suggest you take a look at Marquis. Their Epic has two seats with foot jets and what they call a therapy pillar -- you can stand in front of it or sit in front of it. It will work the front and back of your legs. My wife loved it! FYI.
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Hai everyone,
I just wanted to let everyone know we yust bought a Caldera Tahitian 2008 model.
Now all we need is the proper paperwork and we are ready to start preperation work.
Regards
Alexander :)
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Hai everyone,
I just wanted to let everyone know we yust bought a Caldera Tahitian 2008 model.
Now all we need is the proper paperwork and we are ready to start preperation work.
Regards
Alexander :)
Congrats Alexander! Happy soaking, I'm sure you will love it...please post pics when you're all set up.
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Chrisi,
It sounds like your therapy "wish list" is similar to my wife's -- foot and leg jets. Mine is neck/shoulders. If you have a dealer nearby, I would suggest you take a look at Marquis. Their Epic has two seats with foot jets and what they call a therapy pillar -- you can stand in front of it or sit in front of it. It will work the front and back of your legs. My wife loved it! FYI.
Thanks IP!!
THe closest Marquis dealer is pretty far away, and I haven't really investigated their line b/c of that. If I don't find something reasonable closer to home, it will be worth checking out!!
Thanks ::)
Chrisi
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Congrats Alexander! Happy soaking, I'm sure you will love it...please post pics when you're all set up.
Congrats!! I have never heard anything bad about Caldera. Good choice (though not for me :()
WWHT
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Thanks IP!!
THe closest Marquis dealer is pretty far away, and I haven't really investigated their line b/c of that. If I don't find something reasonable closer to home, it will be worth checking out!!
Thanks ::)
Chrisi
Like I said that Marquis is suppose to have great therapy, so even at 2 hrs + away I might give them a try.
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Like I said that Marquis is suppose to have great therapy, so even at 2 hrs + away I might give them a try.
Since you have mentioned both Caldera and Marquis being in San Antonio, call both in advance and set up your test. Since you are coming from a distance, you want to make sure they are going to have the spa ready for when you arrive. It might be a good idea to have two choices at both dealerships. That way if you don't like your first choice, you can move to the second and see if it is a better choice.
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Chrisi,
Vanguard's spot-on. My best wet tests were when I did 2 or 3 brands back to back.
Alexander,
Congrats -- I've read a lot of posts from people who love their Niagara. Post pics when you're all set-up!
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IP and Vanguard--
We wet tested Master and D1 Amore today--Master LSX didn't fit hubby with the reverse molded neck jets, fit me well, though I had to hold myself back. THe lougner floated us both!! :-[ Then we jumed in the Amore, b/c we were looking at the Lotus, which the dry run on the Lotus left my long-legged hubby banging knees. The wet Amore was great in the seats, neither of us floated, but the neck jets on the head rest soaked us in the face until we turned them way down. The bench seat wasn't uncomfortable for me, hubby doesn;t care for it though, but moving around the bench meant you were hitting parts in the nether regions :o OMG :o but if it landed in the quads, it felt good.
So, in the meantime, we are waiting to test the Arctic Tundra and Dynasties which will both be at the same dealer.
Longing for a hot tub epeihany day :-/ :( ::)
CHrisi
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You def need to wet test the Niagara and Piper Glen WWHT.