Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: searchinginfl on February 19, 2008, 01:28:00 pm
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I am getting ready to do my first drain/fill. I have had my tub since December 1, and though my water looks great, I can't get rid of my CC reading. So, I am going to follow the newbie rule, and drain early. I have a drain at the bottom outside (though I don't see how it will get all the water out).
I bought a whole bunch of chemicals at the local pool store. They didn't have spagloss, so I just bought Solus Spa cleaner. I bought Metal gone (I was not told to use anything but dichlor and mps on my first fill w/my frog), I bought Calcium booster, and this time I'm going to try Nat 2 cartridge instead of the Frog.
I assume I am supposed to turn off the power when I drain. After using the cleaner, I guess I keep the hose attached to the drain for when I rinse? Is there any advice for my first refill?
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[size=16]get yourself a drop in electric pump. its the best thing i ever bought as a spa owner. i've seen cheap ones at lowe's for around $70. you will thank yourself 2-3 times a year for as long as you own a spa.[/size] ;)
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In my case, I think I'll try it once before investing in another thing. We have no basement or attic here, and are having some storage issues. If the process stinks that bad, I'll be at Lowes immediately! Thanks.
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I've heard draing from the bottom drain can take forever. I use sump pump tubing and it works OK. If you do decide on a pump - go sump pump. I have a pool cover pumps and it too takes forever.
Return any cleaner/ polish for the spa. I have had my spa almost 3 years and have never used cleaner/polish on it. If you need to wipe gunk off - 2 things magic eraser or baking soda on a rag.
Do you need calcium booster?
Do turn the power off and if you rinse leave the hose on. When you refill, fill it through the filter(s) to force out the air.
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there is a happy medium between using the built-in drain and buying a pump.
Put the garden hose over the side of the spa and start a siphon. It usually goes faster than using the drain system, and most tubs don't design the drain fittings to drain the tub all the way to the floor anyway - (HS does...)
The larger and shorter the hose, the faster it will drain.
8-)
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Get something like this.....well worth the money!
http://cgi.ebay.com/1200-GPH-Submersible-Pump-LITTLE-GIANT-1-6-HP-POOL-SPA_W0QQitemZ300199295905QQihZ020QQcategoryZ20732QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m118.l1247QQcmdZViewItem
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Well, the draining was slow, but I wasn't in a rush. Halfway through, I just took the hose off the drain and dropped it in the top, it siphoned itself, that made it a little faster. I see no dirt anywhere, so I guess I'll just start filling!
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Ivie,
I see its too late to offer a couple of hints as you are now filling. Just a couple of things to do and look for while draining and filling your tub.
1 Always turn the power off, its a great opportunity to test your GFCI, just push the button and the power is off
2 I also use a small submersible pump, it really does speed things up, less then $100 at Home Depot
3 Always remove your filter and stick the garden hose down the pump inlet a couple of inches, This will prevent
an air lock from happening when you go to start your tub back up
4 After fill is complete add a tablespoon of dichlor and then take your water to your dealer for a complete test the
next day. They will be able to tell you how much of what to add to your water
5 Enjoy, there is nothing like freshwater
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I followed all these instructions, and I am almost full. Is that ALL I should add? JUST Dichlor? When I first got it they said, throw in a cap of MPS and a cap of dichlor.
I have a Taylor kit. Is it necessary to get it tested at my dealer? I think that is what they use as well. The local pool store says that based on our city water we should add Metal Gone and Calcium booster. I never added calcium booster, but according to all my strips, it was always super low in hardness.
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I just read the Natures 2 instructions. It says to activate the cartridge I should add 1 1/2 TABLESPOONS dichlor per 250 gallons, I have a 500 gallon spa. That seems like a lot, but I want to make sure I activate it. Advice?
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I followed all these instructions, and I am almost full. Is that ALL I should add? JUST Dichlor? When I first got it they said, throw in a cap of MPS and a cap of dichlor.
I have a Taylor kit. Is it necessary to get it tested at my dealer? I think that is what they use as well. The local pool store says that based on our city water we should add Metal Gone and Calcium booster. I never added calcium booster, but according to all my strips, it was always super low in hardness.
I would definetly add the bottle of Metal Gon. Just make sure not to install the N2 for atleast 4 hours after you added it. It's also important not to install the N2 until your water is balanced. Basically, it should be the last thing you do.
Yes, more than likely your local pool store or dealer uses one of the Taylor kits. So if you have one and can use it accurately, there's no need to have them test it. Calcium is a tricky subject. Some say it's more important than others. My opinion, fwiw, is that you want atleast 100ppm. Test strips are very inaccurate for measuring CH. Your Taylor however, is extremely accurate. If it's way low, like less than 100ppm, add some until you're in the 150-200ppm range.
I just read the Natures 2 instructions. It says to activate the cartridge I should add 1 1/2 TABLESPOONS dichlor per 250 gallons, I have a 500 gallon spa. That seems like a lot, but I want to make sure I activate it. Advice?
Yes, what ever the instructions say, that's what you add. JUST MAKE SURE IT'S THE VERY LAST THING YOU DO.
Here's the order to do things.
1. add the Metal Gon and follow it's instructions for circulation time(it's best not to continue to step 3 for a few hours after adding Metal Gon) Fwiw, I probably only wait 1 hour after adding it before I adjust my levels and so far haven't had any issues.
2. test and record the CH, alk, and ph.
3. Adjust in the order posted in step 2.
4. Rinse Filters and install N2 when finished.
5. Add the activation dose of dichlor.
6. In the morning, test all levels again to make sure they're stable.
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Great Chad, that is EXACTLY the information I needed. Thank you so much!
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I have my alkalinity right, but my PH is way high. All I have is PH/Alk down. Since I don't want to bring them both down, what should I use?
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I have my alkalinity right, but my PH is way high. All I have is PH/Alk down. Since I don't want to bring them both down, what should I use?
First off, what are the readings for your alk, pH, and FC.
Alk/pH down is sodium bisulfate and will bring both levels down, however it has a much greater effect on the pH. So you might be ok. But if you find that when you get the pH down in to range and then the alk drops out of range, you can just add some Baking soda to bring it back up. Before you do anything though, I'd like to know where they are before I give any specifics. If your pH is way high, it might also be best to go get some muriatic acid. Just be very careful with it as it is quite hazardous.
One more thing- when ever you're adding an acid to your spa such as sodium bisulfate(dry acid) or muriatic acid, it's very important not to run the pumps right after dosing like you normally do with other chems. It's actually best to scoop out some of your spa water in a bucket. Then add the acid to the bucket of water. Then gradually pour the mix over a widespread area in to the spa. Wait 5-10 minutes and then turn pumps on like you normally do when adding chems.
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Unfortunately, I added the ph/alk down before reading your post. Here are my readings now from the taylor now.
PH about 7.9
Alk 90
CH 210
FC about 4.5
TC about 4 (doesn't really make sense, does it?)
CYA--filled up the whole thing and still saw the black dot.
These readings were done at night, so my lighting may be off. When I really saw my water last though in the light, it still looked awful, greenish and kind of cloudy. Now at night it seems to still be cloudy, though I can't judge the color. It smells though, not like chlorine, but smells like my taylor kit....chemical-like. So far I have added 3 tablespoons of chlorine.
None of this happened on my first fill. I added a cap of MPS, a cap of dichlor, and a day later, my water looked good (though it measured SUPER LOW in PH and ALK). Before the refill my water was sparkling clear. Should I dump and refill again?
If I didn't enjoy being in this tub with my kids so much, I think I would be selling it like so many do!!! I am getting very frustrated. At first this chemistry thing was fun. Now that I'm adding a ton of stuff, running my jets all day to circulate, refilling.....I'm not having fun.
Maybe I should just have listened to my dealer and dump a cap of MPS after each soak, a cap of dichlor 1x/week, and thats it. It worked until I started overtreating for PH and alk etc.
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Ivie,
You need to stop all this crazy talk about selling your spa. Your water is perfectly fine. Put the Taylor down and enjoy the spa. Don't test anything for a few days. And remember, when you do measure the pH and alk make sure your FC is less than one or zero and that there isn't any mps present either. This will ensure the most accurate readings.
Don't be discouraged. This was only your first refill. It gets ALOT easier. :)
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I'm not really going to sell, but I'm starting to see why people do. I certainly do not use it as much as I thought, I use it more like a little pool for my family.
I did not test again with the Taylor today. It was rainy and I have a sick toddler. I quickly took a peek at the water though....still not crystal clear like it was before I drained it. I dropped in a strip quick....no free chlorine, so I added about another 1 1/2 tsp. (I had already added 3 tbls!) I haven't checked again, but am I doing the right thing? According to the strip, all other levels look good, but how else do I make my water clear again? I haven't used the tub since the refill, and honestly, I don't think I'm willing to go in that water the way it looks.
Tomorrow I plan to wash the filter again, re-test with the taylor, and if all levels are OK, put in the new Nat2. If the water still looks not perfect, I may drain about a third and add fresh again. Any input?
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Keep in mind that it doesn't take long for the water to cloud with no chlorine present.
If after you add a TBS of dichlor and run pumps for ten minutes, it's still not clear an hour later-
Add an ounce or so of some clarifier, run pumps again, and then rinse the filters. If that still doesn't work, add a shock dose of mps.
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Keep in mind that it doesn't take long for the water to cloud with no chlorine present.
If after you add a TBS of dichlor and run pumps for ten minutes, it's still not clear an hour later-
Add an ounce or so of some clarifier, run pumps again, and then rinse the filters. If that still doesn't work, add a shock dose of mps.
If your pH is still 7.9 and TA at 90, you should add another tablespoon of dry acid (pH/TA down) and it should put you right where your levels should be. Don't be concerned if your TA gets a little below normal...for your water it will help keep the pH down.
Cloudy water is caused by lack of sanitizer most of the time. It looks like you have added a shock dose of chlorine which is the right thing to do. This would initially get your free chlorine level to the 10+ range. Cloudy water will eat that FC up, so daily you should bring your FC up to the 3-5 range. It will disappear, but thats OK as long as you reach that level once per day. Filter, filter, filter to clear water. It may take a couple of days. When your water clears and it see a haze and it is just not getting that crystal clear look, then use a clarifier. I don't use mps to fix water. I like to use just chlorine for problems. Chlorine will fix your water. When clear, go back to your routine...chlorine after soaks up to 3 ppm. Shock weekly with either mps or chlorine. At this point in your ownership, add doses on off days. As you get more used to the chemistry, you can experiment to see how long you can go without adding chlorine with your N2 cartridge.
As was stated above, we have all been through this learning curve.
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The thing is, the water didn't GET cloudy, it never got clear from filling. Also, I must have put too much alk increaser in, because that is when it got high. So then I put the alk down. Am I overtreating now? Should I dump some? I have put a lot of chlorine in, is it safe to add more? I still have not used it since filling.
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The thing is, the water didn't GET cloudy, it never got clear from filling. Also, I must have put too much alk increaser in, because that is when it got high. So then I put the alk down. Am I overtreating now? Should I dump some? I have put a lot of chlorine in, is it safe to add more? I still have not used it since filling.
OK, so what you are saying is that your fill water was clear but when you added alk increaser, your water became cloudy, correct?
This does make sense. High pH will draw the calcium out of the water. You are fortunate that is stayed suspended and did not attach to the spa shell and equipment in the form of a grit. The key here is to get your pH to the normal range...close to 7.4 - 7.6.
When you drain and fill, the first thing to do is balance your pH and TA when the water reaches temp. Generally if you bring your pH into line, the TA will settle into an acceptable range. Metal Gon, if needed, should be added as you fill when the spa is about 3/4 full. Next, add sanitizer. Add enough to bring your free chlorine level to 3-5 ppm. You can now use the spa.
Calcium increaser can be added anytime you like. It will give the water a more "polished" look. My calcium hardness level from the tap is about 50. I add enough to bring it up to 100. I don't like it any higher. IMO, calcium can cause more problems than it solves...as you can see. In a concrete pool/spa calcium is necessary...in a portable spa, not so critical.
Add the N2 cartridge after a day. Do not worry about "activating" it. Just toss it in...it will work. Test and adjust pH and TA once per week. Sanitize after use or daily if not using the spa. Shock weekly. Thats it.
With your situation now, I would get pH into line (the low end of normal at 7.2 might be good for you now) and be sure you sanitize to 3 ppm FC daily and see if it clears up. I would not do anything more but balance and sanitize and give it a little time. Keep it simple and keep us informed.
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The water was NEVER clear since refilling. I added metalgon when it was full, also Calcium increaser. On my first fill, I never added anything for the first 4 weeks except dichlor & mps. Once I started testing, I had to add almost a pound of alk increaser. I had one cloudy problem, but shocked with dichlor and it went away. Otherwise for 2 1/2 months my water was beautiful, though it always read low in CH. I drained because I couldn't get rid of the high CC reading even though the water looked, smelled and felt fine. I just figured I should go with the newbie rule, and drain early.
Now, since refilling, I feel like I have overdone it. I wanted to get the water right this time, so added the metalgon and calcium increaser. Then I adjusted the alk a bit too much (up) so had to lower it (actually only the ph got high). I have added a lot of dichlor, no mps yet. But my water has not looked good since refilling yet.
I am going to check in a little while. If it still doesn't look good, I think I'll drain some out, add fresh water rinse my filters and see what happens.
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I just checked, and my water looks good!! Woo Hoo! Keep in mind, I have not been in this new water yet, nor have I rinsed the filter. Here are my readings:
FC: 1.5
TC: 2.5
PH: 7.7
ALK: 100
CH: 210
I know my reading may not be that accurate with a FC reading of 1.5, but I first used a strip first that showed 0 FC, so I went ahead and tested.
What should my next step be? I still have my old Frog in, but would like to put in the new NAT2 so in coincides with the water change. Should I adjust the PH further, then rinse filters, add dichlor and add the nat2? My CC reading being 1....why? Shouldn't I have no CC if I haven't used it yet? :-/
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Ivie, I'm glad your water is clearing up. You could be getting a CC reading if your water supplier uses chloramines.
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I just checked, and my water looks good!! Woo Hoo! Keep in mind, I have not been in this new water yet, nor have I rinsed the filter. Here are my readings:
FC: 1.5
TC: 2.5
PH: 7.7
ALK: 100
CH: 210
I know my reading may not be that accurate with a FC reading of 1.5, but I first used a strip first that showed 0 FC, so I went ahead and tested.
What should my next step be? I still have my old Frog in, but would like to put in the new NAT2 so in coincides with the water change. Should I adjust the PH further, then rinse filters, add dichlor and add the nat2? My CC reading being 1....why? Shouldn't I have no CC if I haven't used it yet? :-/
Great news. Just replace your frog with the N2 cartridge and leave everything else alone. Add dichlor after you soak or once per day if you don't use it. Don't worry about your combined chlorine right now. Enjoy the good water. No need to adjust pH right now.
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Great news. Just replace your frog with the N2 cartridge and leave everything else alone. Add dichlor after you soak or once per day if you don't use it. Don't worry about your combined chlorine right now. Enjoy the good water. No need to adjust pH right now.
Ivie,
What Tony said is exactly right, don't worry about it.
Get in your tub and enjoy it you sound stressed over all this ;).
My advise would be to relax a bit on trying to achieve drinking water in your tub, you just can't do it, believe me I have tried.