Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: IL Parrothead on October 20, 2007, 01:21:42 am
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Now that Solo has made his purchase, I figure I'll weigh in on the start of my search! Congrats Solo! I've been following along on your decision process.
I also have injuries and need for the therapeutic benefits of a spa. So far, just on features and availability of dealers in my area, I've narrowed my search to Hot Springs, D1 and Caldera. I take my first wet test tomorrow (Hot Springs Vista). My wife and I plan to wet test 2 D1 tubs (Chairman II and Amore' Bay -- I know -- both ends of the spectrum) and a Caldera tub within the next week. From what I've been reading here, it's a very subjective process and I can't wait to wet test.
If anyone wants to chime in on their opinion of these 3 manufacturers..........My biggest criteria are quality of construction and therapy for neck, shoulders, back and hip.
I'm looking forward to the journey and joining "The Club"!
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Welcome to the forum.
We had our first spa delivered about a month ago and love it. I'm not going to influence your decision by telling which of the 3 brands you mentioned we have. All of them are reputable companies.
The ultimate decision will be made with you and your wifes butts in the seats and the jets on your neck, shoulders etc. Enjoy the testing experience, don't make it a chore.
Enjoy. :)
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Welcome IL Parrothead,
I used this site to help with my search and the best advice was to wet test. I wanted it to be an "ahh haa" experience for me. I tested a total of 4 tubs and chose the D1 Nautilus. My requirements were (therapeutic, quality, variety of jets/seating) which the Nautilus has. I had my tub delivered on 8/15 and I soak almost every day. I was told by some people (not on this site) that the newness would ware off, but so far it's still worth the effort to get off the couch and soak.
I positioned my hottub so I can see my tv and put speakers outside with a volume knob, so it really does add to my list of "reasons I should soak". We watch whole movies, football games, or just the news (not to say that I am watching tv all the time).
Back to the D1 Nautilus for a second. It does not have a lot of "fancy" features, but everyone that has ever come over to soak says it's the best expirience they have had in a hot tub. Lots of room (7 person capacity) usually only 2-4 at a time, but still room for more. We end up playing musical chairs to cool down or get a seat with different jets. One seat is a little deep for most people and is one of the therapy seats with an adjustable neck pad with 4 jets. I am 5'7". I was surprised that it was not my favorite seat. I still like it, but until the weather gets colder it is hard to stay in it for too long without overheating (only face up is exposed). It's funny how even a few extra inches of being out of the water helps cool you down.
I tried keeping my water at 103, then 101 and now at 100 which seams to be the most enjoyable and allows us to stay in the tub for a long time ( usually 30min-2hrs). After that the flesh starts falling off the bone. Actually, even after that long I don't really feel like I have to take a nap (sometimes I do).
I live in Northern IL and the weather is getting nice and cool (mid 40's this morning). I have to get out there now and soak. For the record, I will be soaking in silence (no tv, music), just the birds chirping, and watch the sun rising with the steam. Most relaxing time of the day.
I had to jump in and mention my D1 since it doesn't look like many people have them on this site. I LOVE MINE and the only thing I regret is that my dealer is pretty lax. I ordered special rounded steps and I still have not received them. Dealer says not much he can do. I wrote D1 directly yesterday and have not heard back yet.
Checkout the pics I posted.
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1187397806/7#7
I look forward to hearing what you decide.
scromey
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Check your board mail. I sent you a PM.
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Hey Parrothead.
Isn't the key question, what would Jimmy Buffet do? :D
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The D1 Chariman II was probably the absolut nicest spa I sat in. But there was no way to get that spa in my price range. I loved the adjustable neck jet system. The CVaptains Chaoir was a great seat. And the lounger was nice. Some people really like the sequncer in this tub but it did nothing for me. I also liked the display on this tub, much nicer than the average display. All around a great tub. But I didn't have the jack to buy it.
Calderra Spas gave a nice therapeutic massage. Very strong jets. I really liked the Geneva and the therapy it provided to my lower back.
Hotsprings just felt like a quality tub. Lots of attention to detail. Solid fit and finsih. The moto massage seat is very nice, though I ended up liking a different type of therapy for my lower back.
If you are going for hydrotherapy, I would look at Jacuzzi too.
Happy Wet testing!
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Buffet would have a 20 or 30 ladies go pick up a tub, chill the margarita's and call him when the thing got to temp.
"Thank god I don't live in a trailer"...
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I also have injuries and need for the therapeutic benefits of a spa. So far, just on features and availability of dealers in my area, I've narrowed my search to Hot Springs, D1 and Caldera.
If anyone wants to chime in on their opinion of these 3 manufacturers..........My biggest criteria are quality of construction and therapy for neck, shoulders, back and hip.
I'm looking forward to the journey and joining "The Club"!
One wod of advice I always give is to try your best to wet test all of them on the SAME day (or same weekend at a minimum).
This is a VERY subjective test. To wet test one on a Saturday and another 5 days later and be able to compare them well can be difficult, especially if all 3 are good choices and there is a good chance you'l like each one fairly well.
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Solo -- thank you very much for the message. I will certainly look for more of your advice after my round of upcoming wet tests.
Scromey -- beautiful install! Also being a Northern IL area guy, I can't wait to get through the bad weather months (with all of my old war wounds) sitting in a spa!
As for Buffett, being a Chicagoan, I'm thinking this tub will be the closest thing I'll get to sitting on the beach, sipping a Margarita every day after work! :) Can't wait!
Spatech -- considering my wife wants to wet test at the end of the business day, and since most dealers around here close around the same time, I don't know how I'll get all of the tests done back-to-back. I'm lucky in that the 3 brands I've mentioned have dealers all within about a 10 minute drive of my house. I'm hoping to get at least 2 stores in on the same day and the third within a couple of days after.
The best knowledge I've gathered from this forum is the info on the salesmen. It really has helped me separate truth from fiction when they start the "My spa is better than all the rest" stuff. And reading what people have paid for their spas helps a lot too.
Solo -- thanks again for taking the time to send me an individual msg. Thanks to all, and I'll keep you up to date on my search!
Mike
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Okay, went back to HS dealer today to set up a wet test for later this week. They also have a couple of Artesian tubs filled, so I'll do those back-to-back.
The Caldera and D1 dealers aren't really close enough to each other to west test those the same day. So far, though, it looks like Caldera is offering the best price and D1 the highest (with the upper level Artesian close behind).
Let's see what the wet tests reveal.......
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Not sure which D1 you were looking at, but I paid $9100 out the door for my D1 Nautilus. I think I got a pretty good deal. I didn't pay full price, but also did not steal it.
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Scromey, I'm not sure which D1 model I'd settle on, but they have a Chairman II and an Amore' Bay filled, available for wet test. I'm hoping to get a good idea on the therapy available from D1 with these two tubs. Without even negotiating yet, the different tubs I'm looking at have prices from the low end of about 8K (Caldera) to 13K or so (D1 Amore Bay). I think the first opening price they gave me on the Chairman was about 10K.
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Once you get comfortable with a couple spa go to the next level of questions: Do we want ozone? (optional in some spas, standard in others.) 110 or 220? 24 hour circ pump or not? Would I mind pumping water out at refill or just opening the drain and letting it all go? Silver ion or not?
Sorry IL Parrothead but you still have several decisions to make. In most cases, I would wager to bet, when someone picks out a spa because of comfort they won't give a rat's a** about the above and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But they, and others, are things to consider.
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My wife and I plan to wet test 2 D1 tubs (Chairman II and Amore' Bay -- I know -- both ends of the spectrum)
This is another good reason to wet test. I'm sure many people that buy the top end later find out they would be as happy or more happy with the other end. West testing may not be mandatory, but I don't think it ever hurts.
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Are you going to wet test the Artesian? Is so, which model? I have a Piper Glen, let me know if you have questions.
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West testing may not be mandatory, but I don't think it ever hurts.
What about east testing or midwest testing? ;)
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What about east testing or midwest testing? ;)
Or the dreaded "North by Northwest" testing for all you Hitchcock fans out there....
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Maybe Hottubdan was inspired by my nickname and meant "Key West Testing"! ;D
96SG -- Great points. I've thought through them during my search so far. Yes on ozone & 24 hr. circ. pump. 220 & I'm ok with pumping.
Bohms, like the D1, I'm going to try out a higher end and a slightly lower end. Piper Glen (higher) and an Island Series Grand Bahama.
Does anyone have input on the two levels of Artesian?
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Parrothead - I have a Piper Glen and I know there are 2 or 3 others with the Island Series and there are also a few other Piper Glen owners on this forum. I'll tell you the reasons why we bought a PG.
1. Individual Seat Controls - this was the only tub that we knew of that had this capability and now that we have it, we can't imagine a tub without it.
2. Jets hit us in all the right spots!
3. Foot dome - the foot jets aren't too hard and not too soft and the volcano jet is awesome - we usually fight over putting our feet over the volcano jet.
4. LED lights look awesome at night.
5. Cool down seat is used a lot - especially during the summer time. That's also our kids favorite seat.
6. We didn't need a waterfall and didn't want a lounger.
7. We were impressed with the quality (shell and cabinet) of the Dove Canyon when we went to the show room (we wet tested the Dove Canyon which is very similiar to the PG, it just has the lounger). We also knew we wanted full foam.
That's it off the top of my head.
Good luck in your search.
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Maybe Hottubdan was inspired by my nickname and meant "Key West Testing"! ;D
96SG -- Great points. I've thought through them during my search so far. Yes on ozone & 24 hr. circ. pump. 220 & I'm ok with pumping.
Bohms, like the D1, I'm going to try out a higher end and a slightly lower end. Piper Glen (higher) and an Island Series Grand Bahama.
Does anyone have input on the two levels of Artesian?
I've heard that the Island series Helix jets are a big improvement over the spinning jets in all the other lines, including the two Platinum lines and the Gold line. I think the Helix jets are a newer feature, so make sure the dealer's wet test model is a new one with the newer jets.
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Wet tested a Caldera spa tonight. It was the Tahitian, although the models we were interested in were a little larger. It was a very nice spa, but I wasn't wowed. My biggest therapy need is in my neck, and the corner seat with the molded headrest and neck jets was not real strong -- even on its fullest setting.
Wet testing a HS Envoy (they have a Vista and Vanguard in the showroom, but not filled) and an Artesian Piper Glen (there you go, Bohms). Just sticking my hand in each of the tubs tonight, the neck jets feel stronger on the HS -- right above the MotoMassage -- than the PG.
Bohms, what is your experience with the PG? I do like the inidvidual seat control feature a lot!
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Waiting with baited breath to hear about your D1 experience really want to hear a consumers point of view so I am watching you carefully. Can't you wet test a cal spa for me. HA HA . This is great site to learn from and everyone's opinion helps alot.
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Wet tested a Caldera spa tonight. It was the Tahitian, although the models we were interested in were a little larger. It was a very nice spa, but I wasn't wowed. My biggest therapy need is in my neck, and the corner seat with the molded headrest and neck jets was not real strong -- even on its fullest setting.
Wet testing a HS Envoy (they have a Vista and Vanguard in the showroom, but not filled) and an Artesian Piper Glen (there you go, Bohms). Just sticking my hand in each of the tubs tonight, the neck jets feel stronger on the HS -- right above the MotoMassage -- than the PG.
Bohms, what is your experience with the PG? I do like the inidvidual seat control feature a lot!
If the neck is your area of interest, I found the DI Chairman to have the best neck therapy. However, I also found that I could scrunch down in the corner of the Jacuzzi J-365 and get good neck therapy as well.
But of the spas I tested, the D1 neck system was the best to me. I found the Calderra neck system to be a tad uncomfportable. The way the pads went around my neck felt limiting and awkward.
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Hi, I have an island series Artesian. It's a captiva, it's smaller than the grand bahama, no lounger. We haven't had it long, but we are thrilled! The helix jets are out of this world. The wet test really did it for us. We sat down and just looked at each other and said "ahhhhhhh". We added the rainforest waterfall and dynapoint lighting. Give me a few minutes and I'll see if I can post pics.
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(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/kramdnaasil/IMG_0433.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/kramdnaasil/IMG_0448.jpg)
(http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc85/kramdnaasil/IMG_0419.jpg)
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Wet tested a Caldera spa tonight. It was the Tahitian, although the models we were interested in were a little larger. It was a very nice spa, but I wasn't wowed. My biggest therapy need is in my neck, and the corner seat with the molded headrest and neck jets was not real strong -- even on its fullest setting.
Wet testing a HS Envoy (they have a Vista and Vanguard in the showroom, but not filled) and an Artesian Piper Glen (there you go, Bohms). Just sticking my hand in each of the tubs tonight, the neck jets feel stronger on the HS -- right above the MotoMassage -- than the PG.
Bohms, what is your experience with the PG? I do like the inidvidual seat control feature a lot!
I forgot to add in my previous email that having 4 corner seats was important as well....that's another thing we couldn't live without now that we have it.
So far everything has been going well with our PG - it's been a year and absolutely no complaints.
It's great that you're wet testing them both, you may find that you'll fall in love with the HS moto massage!
Good luck and happy wet testing! Let us know how it goes!
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Bohms, I was wondering if your tub is set up with the "semi-lounger"? I have no idea what it's really called. I know in the island series you can get a flat spot between two of the corner seats with jets. The head rests in the corners wrap around so you can turn your body and put your legs up on the flat spot to get a nice leg massage. I floated out of loungers, but I can use this comfortably. That probably made no sense, but maybe you know what I mean. It's nice to sit back and listen to music or watch tv in this postion.
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Tiny - yes I know what you're talking about. The PG has 4 jets that shoot up from a middle seat, so you can swing your legs around from 2 different corner seats to make a mini lounger. I do this from time to time as well. I'm with you, I also floated out of any lounger we wet tested.....too much fat, not enough muscle, I guess!
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. I'm with you, I also floated out of any lounger we wet tested.....too much fat, not enough muscle, I guess!
bohms:
My wife has had that very problem and one salesperson told her she was just too "bouyant" for a lounger seat. She's very standard height to weight and I chuckled when he said that...he got all annoyed that I thought he was making something up. Needless to say, I told him that he was a little too sensitive and could he explain his theory of personal bouyancy to me....I do know that some people float better than others and thought that was where he was going to go. He stuttered and walked away. Needless to say, we walked out. I'm sure there is science behind what he was trying to say. Just don't think he understood it....
So, IMHO, this is not an issue of fat vs muscle. You are just too bouyant!
Respectfully,
The Doob
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Maybe, a doobie would help us all understand bouyancy. I'm 5'5" and 112 lbs and I float like crazy. Maybe, if we held our breath in the spa, we would sink easier!
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Maybe, a doobie would help us all understand bouyancy. I'm 5'5" and 112 lbs and I float like crazy. Maybe, if we held our breath in the spa, we would sink easier!
Actually, let out all the air in your lungs and hold it...you will lower a bit in the water! ;D
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Doobie - that's too funny! I guess I'm just a bouyant person then!!! Tiny....wish I were your size!!! :(
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Maybe, a doobie would help us all understand bouyancy. I'm 5'5" and 112 lbs and I float like crazy. Maybe, if we held our breath in the spa, we would sink easier!
Just diconnect your ozone hose from the ozonator and hook it up to your bong. The pump will draw the smoke in through the ozone plumbing line, it'll exit the ozone jet into your water and come off the surface of the water like a fog (or like a caldron on the Adam's Family).
You and your buddies can just sit in the spa, inhale and not care about bouyancy at all!
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Just diconnect your ozone hose from the ozonator and hook it up to your bong. The pump will draw the smoke in through the ozone plumbing line, it'll exit the ozone jet into your water and come off the surface of the water like a fog (or like a caldron on the Adam's Family).
You and your buddies can just sit in the spa, inhale and not care about bouyancy at all!
Is that the 'Hookah' brand spa??? Water pipe and hydrotherapy in one?? Now there's a market that hasn't been tapped! 8-)
The Doob
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Bohms and tinybubbles, how do you like the strength/massage of the neck jets in your spas?
Hoping to test HS & Artesian tomorrow or Sunday. D1 also.
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Is that the 'Hookah' brand spa??? Water pipe and hydrotherapy in one?? Now there's a market that hasn't been tapped! 8-)
The Doob
the problem with that brand spa is keeping it lit. ;D
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There is serious power in mine. Saturday morning, I was turning my body in the seat and shooting water off my shoulders and hitting my husband on the other side of the spa. :) All of the jets can be turned down or off to adjust the therapy. I usually turn them down a little. My hubby is a big man and incredibly muscular, he's a workout buff, he says they feels great to him as well.
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Bohms and tinybubbles, how do you like the strength/massage of the neck jets in your spas?
Hoping to test HS & Artesian tomorrow or Sunday. D1 also.
Well? how were the wet tests I know we got distracted but we still want to know.
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Well? how were the wet tests I know we got distracted but we still want to know.
Okay. We did 3 wet tests last weekend, and hope to get a couple more in within the next few days. Here are our thoughts so far (already posted about our Caldera experience):
HS Envoy -- We both really liked the Moto Massage seat. My wife floated out of the lounger, and I thought it was just okay. The neck jets above the Moto felt pretty good. I think we've decided we don't want a lounger, so if we end up going HS, I believe we're going to pick either the Vanguard or the Grandee. Overall, we really liked the quality/feel of the HS.
Artesian Grand Bahama -- I really did not like the lounger. My wife liked it better than the one in the Envoy. Jets felt pretty decent. The one corner seat with the molded headrest -- the neck jets felt pretty good. I would have to say pretty much as good as the Envoy, and maybe even slightly better positioned. 2 point towards the center of your neck and two point down more onto the tops of your shoulders. And for $3000 - $3500 less than the HS? I'm giving it some thought. I'd probably switch to the Grand Cayman without the lounger.
Artesian Piper Glen -- Very nice tub! Nice stereo. Loved the ability to control seats individually. Softer jets (IMO) than the Grand Bahama. Salesman referred to it as more of a "gentle, soft tissue type massage". Liked it a lot, but probably not $13,000 worth. But overall, it looked great and if money were no object, I'd consider it.
On to test a couple of D1 tubs later this week. I'll let you know. Hoping to have my mind up soon!
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Artesian Piper Glen -- Very nice tub! Nice stereo. Loved the ability to control seats individually. Softer jets (IMO) than the Grand Bahama. Salesman referred to it as more of a "gentle, soft tissue type massage". Liked it a lot, but probably not $13,000 worth. But overall, it looked great and if money were no object, I'd consider it.
On to test a couple of D1 tubs later this week. I'll let you know. Hoping to have my mind up soon!
WOW 13K for a PG, huh? That's steep. We paid 10K a year ago and if we wanted a stereo it would have been $10,900. Good luck on your continued search!!!
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Make sure you throw in a couple of lower priced spas in your research. If a dealer thinks that his only competition is a $10-12k tub, he won't be inclined to lower his price very much. But if he thinks you are looking at a $7000 tub elsewhere, he will probably make you a better deal to stand a better chance of getting your business.
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I think the difference in the two lines of Artesian, is the helix jets they've introduced in the Island line. I'm assuming they wanted to test them on their lower price spas just in case there were any problems. Lucky us! For you, I'd definately test and retest if needed. You seem like you have real needs in the neck and shoulder department. I don't know about other brands, but with the Artesian you can turn off any and all jets. So, if you really want to attack that neck, turn off some of the jets in the other seats. Whatever you buy, you are really going to enjoy it. Happy hunting.
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HS Envoy -- We both really liked the Moto Massage seat. My wife floated out of the lounger, and I thought it was just okay. The neck jets above the Moto felt pretty good. I think we've decided we don't want a lounger, so if we end up going HS, I believe we're going to pick either the Vanguard or the Grandee. Overall, we really liked the quality/feel of the HS.
Parrot:
My wife and I found that in the spas where I liked the lounger, she didn't, and vice versa. I've also spoken to people on their second and third spa and, if they had a lounger on their first, opted out on subsequent spas. It seems very personal on the loungers....we're still leaning heavily towards the Vanguard due to the size and the energy efficiency. We compared the Vanguard and Grandee and actually liked the setup on the Vanguard with one moto on one side and a dual moto on the other. That extra foot on the Grandee could be an issue for us, too; however, I don't want to buy one and find I would have preferred the other for the extra size.
Good hunting!
HTH
The Doob
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Doob, I had the exact same experience re: the lounger. And all of my friends tell me, when in doubt, get the bigger tub. Many of them regret going with the smaller one.
Tiny, in the island series, there isn't individual seat control like on the Piper Glen I tried. How do you turn off individual jets? Rotating the outer ring?
Solo -- I'm exactly in agreement on negotiating. Same way I buy cars. I never let the salesmen think I am dead set on make/model.
Having trouble getting the D1 wet test set up. Hoping to do it tomorrow or Monday. I'll let you know.
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My wife and I wet tested a Marquis Epic today. We really liked the tub!
The dealer is about 45 miles away from us, but a lot of Epic owners chimed in that they love its neck therapy. I enjoyed it as well.
Salesman indicated low to mid 9's for an Epic, but indicated he would give me a better price on the floor model (obviously), or one of the new ones -- still on a pallet -- in his warehouse. I think he's planning on placing his 2008 order soon. Anyone have knowledge on prices for recent purchases of Epics? I don't need stereo.
So far, Marquis and HS are running neck & neck (pardon my herniated disc reference).
D1 test hopefully will be this week.
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D1 wet test finally scheduled for Friday!
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Have you looked at Jacuzzi yet? Or thought about it??
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Interesting question. We went to The Great Escape, where they sell Jacuzzi and Sundance. The salesman was definitely trying to steer us to Sundance. My wife was turned off by: a)the salesman; b)the material/feel of the skirt on the tub (Sundance); and c)the feel/flimsiness of the diverter valves (again, Sundance -- in her opinions). She also didn't like having to use a special key to change out jets. All of that was enough for her to want to leave. I have chatted with multiple people on these sites that love their jacuzzis, so I brought it up again to her last night. She's not interested. I may very well schedule a wet test without her and see what I think. If I really like it, maybe I can convince her to go back.
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See if they have a 400 series wet to test, the RX jets feel fantastic. No need for keys either. Wives can be tough,I wont go there. ;)
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I understand what your going through. Just had our 1st spa delivered last week. We wet tested all the ones we were looking at and we found that if you are thinking about a lounger wet testing is even more important. We went with the Marquis because the wife didn't have to fight to stay in. After we bought it we also found out we liked the more open seating lay out. we bought the Marquis 641R (or something like that). Looks like your shopping for something with a little more pizzaz but so far we are really happy with our purchase. It's starting to get nice and cool in Illinois (Chicago) and can't wait for tonight with temps dropping to the upper 20's. So don't wait too long.
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This is my first post, so please excuse me if I am asking something that was discussed before. My husband and I have just started our "search" for a hot tub. We have gone to a few spa stores and most have a place to wet test. We wanted to narrow down our choices a bit rather than wet test everything.
We spoke to a ThermoSpa dealer and my husband liked one of the models. However, they have no showroom where you can "wet test". From what I am reading here, the wet test is very, very important. Does anyone own a ThermoSpa Designer Series Spa? I am tempted to forget about it since we can not wet test, but if people have had a good experience with this brand, maybe we should look into it more.
Thanks for your help.
Chancelund
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Welcome to the forum Chancelund!
This post from a couple of years ago will tell you all you need to know about Thermospas and why you should avoid them at all costs:
you must be one of the hired guns they use to respond to bad posts on the internet. let me tell you that thermospas is the best sales job anyone can get. salesman make $150,000 plus per year. they are given a price sheet where the par price(the rock bottom price thermospas can sell a spa for with the salesman making only a flat $100 commission)is listed in between the model numbers on the price sheet, it's hidden in between the front and last number on the fake serial number. the salesman can sell a spa for any number they want above par and than they split that amount 50/50 with the company! they usually start with showing the highly inflated "retail" (they don't have any dealers that sell thier spas anywhere close to the high prices they charge with thier in home program)price sheet and than offer you a first night discount called the "factory direct" price.they usually give thier pitch than at the end they do the classic "drop" where they call in and ask the sales manager for a better price if the customer buys that night! its the old tin man routine and it makes alot of money. the head of the outfit is andy tournas and he does extensive training with the salesman and teaches them how to alway make the sale that night, if they dont sell that night than a manager will call the customer a few days later and offer a "special" deal and sell it fot par, its called the rehash program. i found all this out the hard way, i paid way too much for my spa. my friend got the exact same spa for thousands less than me. dont fall for thier trade in scam either, all they do is raise the price of thier spa and reduce it by the supposed amount they offer you for your trade. its a laugh, as i said they have salesman making thousands in a single night, not bad if they can sleep with the guilty conscience. good luck but i would never buy from them again
Also, here is a link to their unsatisfactory rating by the Better Business Bureau. 132 customer complaints in 3 years is astoundingly reprehensible:
http://ct.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=29&bbb=0111&firm=25002672
There are many, many better choices.
Terminator
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This is my first post, so please excuse me if I am asking something that was discussed before. My husband and I have just started our "search" for a hot tub. We have gone to a few spa stores and most have a place to wet test. We wanted to narrow down our choices a bit rather than wet test everything.
We spoke to a ThermoSpa dealer and my husband liked one of the models. However, they have no showroom where you can "wet test". From what I am reading here, the wet test is very, very important. Does anyone own a ThermoSpa Designer Series Spa? I am tempted to forget about it since we can not wet test, but if people have had a good experience with this brand, maybe we should look into it more.
Thanks for your help.
Chancelund
Welcome to the board, Chancelund.
I have no direct experience with Thermospa, however, I have heard that they are a very "hard sell" type of outfit. I understand that they have a set pitch that is high pressure and will start with outrageously high prices which they then drop to make you think your getting a special deal. Plus you are correct that there is no way to even see the tub, let alone wet test it before your purchase.
I would be EXTREMELY CAREFUL in dealing with these people and their pitches. Plus I personally would never buy a hot tub without a dealer standing behind it. Hopefully other people here with more direct knowlege will chime in to help you.
Good Luck...Rich
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Dear East_TX_Spa:
Thank you so much for the information. I am not a hired gun. I am a retired school teacher trying to find a good quality, affordable hot tub. My husband seemed to think ThermoSpas were well made, but since they did not have a "wet test", I was concerned. The tub met all of the criteria listed on Poolandspa's checklist of things to consider and questions to ask. I am trying to use it to comparison shop, since I know very little about hot tubs. I find all this very stressful. I thank you for warning me to avoid this brand.
Chancelund [smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=dankk2.gif]
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Richs100:
Thanks for your information. They did do a "hard sell" and were not easy to get rid of when we said we were looking at a number of different hot tub brands and did not plan to make up our minds without doing research. Price dropped a few thousand dollars in the last half hour with a "special deal". :exclamation [smiley=dankk2.gif] [smiley=dankk2.gif]
Chancelund
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I understand what your going through. Just had our 1st spa delivered last week. We wet tested all the ones we were looking at and we found that if you are thinking about a lounger wet testing is even more important. We went with the Marquis because the wife didn't have to fight to stay in. After we bought it we also found out we liked the more open seating lay out. we bought the Marquis 641R (or something like that). Looks like your shopping for something with a little more pizzaz but so far we are really happy with our purchase. It's starting to get nice and cool in Illinois (Chicago) and can't wait for tonight with temps dropping to the upper 20's. So don't wait too long.
Dazed, my wife just told me tonight that she thinks the Marquis Epic is her favorite we've tested so far. We have D1 scheduled for friday. I'm hoping to have my mind made up by next week and begin the negotiating process.
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My brother in-law has been VERY pleased with his Marquis spa that he bought 4 years ago. I would have looked at them but they aren't in my geographic area.
With the brands you are looking at I bet you will be happy with any of them.
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Okay. My wife and I finally were able to wet test the D1's. We tested a Chairman II outside (first outside soak, and I can now see why you say it's getting into the best time of the year to soak -- It was awesome!) and an Amore' Bay inside. I did like the neck jets on both models. The lounger in the Chairman is the first that I actually felt very comfortable in, although my wife floated quite a bit. We weren't real fond of the diverter valve set-up. We didn't feel like we could use more than a couple of seats effectively at a time. To use the one corner seat, you'd be taking pressure mostly or totally away from the other corner seat. We liked the dynamic sequencer, but didn't find the variety of jet configuration that we enjoyed in the Marquis Epic or the HS Vanguard/Envoy/Grandee. On the Amore' Bay, we did enjoy the "his and hers" UltraLounges (nice compromise between lounger and none), but found the "bench type horseshoe shaped" seating area pretty boring -- not much flexibility in jet configuration again. Great looking spa. Looks like good quality/fit & finish. Did not think it was nice enough to justify the $13,000 they're asking for the spa. $9700 requested (no haggling yet) on Chairman, and they're selling their demo (been outside for almost 2 years) for $6000.
At this point, my wife and I are both in agreement that -- for us -- we like the Marquis Epic best. My wife puts HS Grandee at #2, while I put D1 (either Chairman or Nautilus) right up there with HS for #2. We haven't gotten an exact price on the Epic. The dealer indicated "the 9's" and I didn't care to narrow him down until I finished wet testing.
Wet testing is finally done! I think based on my wife's preference (putting D1 at #3), I'll start negotiating with HS & Marquis and see who gives me the best deal. Anyone care to chime in on what they paid for an Epic or Grandee?
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IL Parrothead:
Thank you so much for sharing this information. It is very helpful in deciding what to look at.
:)
Chancelund
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Chancelund, you're welcome. And that's why I'm posting this. I've watched Solo and others go through their thought process when shopping, and it certainly helped me focus on the important things. And everyone that chants the mantra "Wet test, wet test, wet test..." is absolutely on target.
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My wife (6') and I (5' 10") are near the purchase decision, and have narrowed down the search to D1 (probably Diplomat), ArcticSpa and MasterSpa. This forum has really helped. We will wet test, especially to see if dual loungers (Diplomat) are that important. Any other pros-cons to help us out? By the way, the D1 D has been quoted at 9395 with all the fixings.
TS
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Parrothead - how did you feel about the Marquis having non-rotating jets vs. the rotating jets in other spas? Did you feel it's a "pro" or "con" for that brand?
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I would really do some research on the Master, It might be the very best spa for you and there are a happy owners here but there are those who seem to have some real issues. I have never been a big fan of Master but just things I have been reading here of late would make me be sure that it is the right spa for me.
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Parrothead - how did you feel about the Marquis having non-rotating jets vs. the rotating jets in other spas? Did you feel it's a "pro" or "con" for that brand?
I am not sure how it would be an issue since on every spa Marquis offers you can add the rotating jets, many dealers will include some at no charge or they can be purchased for about 10.00.
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If you do decide to go with Little Tyke Spas (and every decent person reading this is praying that you don't), please don't fall prey to the same situation that just occured with a new customer of ours:
A few months ago, Little Tyke Spas hosted one of their notorious tent sales in Tyler, TX (the one I went to and wrote about).
A gentleman and his wife succumbed to their high-pressure sales tactics and placed a 25% deposit on a $14,000 spa (which normally sold for $18,000 ::)). He told the salesperson that he wanted the spa delivered the following week. The salesperson told him that the spa would not be available for another 6-8 weeks. The customer then informed him that he would be having construction done during that time frame and he either had to get the spa immediately or 4 months from now. The salesperson told him that 4 months from now would be fine. Everyone was happy.......until......
The customer has been trying to contact the salesperson and schedule delivery of his spa, without success. Once he finally reached someone (not the original salesperson), he was informed that he missed the window of opportunity to receive a spa as stated in the contract, yet he still owes $9,000.
Needless to say, he is no longer happy and has retained the services of an attorney.
We are working with him to find a HotSpring Spa that will meet his specific space requirements and improve his misconceptions about the spa industry.
Terminator
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I have heard Master has had financial difficulty, and worry about their future?
A friend also said for a Michigan resident, I should buy a tub manufactured in the Midwest because of climate similarity, compared to CA, OR or WA, bascially any western models? From the forums, it looks like the Marquis '08 line looks good, any comments? Lastly, from all these forums, Arctic, D1, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Master all seem pretty good?
TS
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I have heard Master has had financial difficulty, and worry about their future?
A friend also said for a Michigan resident, I should buy a tub manufactured in the Midwest because of climate similarity, compared to CA, OR or WA, bascially any western models? From the forums, it looks like the Marquis '08 line looks good, any comments? Lastly, from all these forums, Arctic, D1, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Master all seem pretty good?
TS
Can't comment on Master Spa's financial situation but if you feel the manufacturer is having problems you may wnat to leave them off your list. As far as not buying from a west coast manufacturer, you would be missing out of some good spas if you did so. Most of the longest term manufacturers are on the west coast and have been building spas for cold weather climates for decades. HotSprings and Sundance/Jacuzzi are the two largest and they are both CA companies as are D1 and others. Your best bet is to stay with the majors and you'll be fine in hard winter areas. These include HS, SD/Jacuzzi, D1, Arctic and Marquis. Coleman, Beachcomber and Artesian are also on most peoples short list. I'm sure I missed a couple but those come to mind quickly.
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Parrothead - how did you feel about the Marquis having non-rotating jets vs. the rotating jets in other spas? Did you feel it's a "pro" or "con" for that brand?
You know, I really didn't find it to be a "con". Their jets seem to produce a nice spiral shaped flow of water that felt really good. And to me, the feeling I've gotten from all manufacturer's jets is pretty subjective. Even the MotoMassage on Hot Springs -- I liked it (some don't), but other non-"Moto" jets from other makes felt just as good.
And now, thanks to Mendocino, if I feel I'm missing rotating jets, I can add them, apparently.
I agree with Tony. I've tested and looked at many tubs now. I've done the research here and elsewhere. If you stick with the top 6 or 8 manufacturers on everyone's list, you really can't go wrong. Beyond that, it's what seats fit your body/bodies best, which jets feel best to you.... For me, it's Marquis, D1, then HS in my top three. To my wife, it's Marquis, HS then D1. But I also liked other tubs for quality, features and warranty.
My next step (as Solo has posted here previously) is now talking to the 3 dealers of the tubs I like tg see who gives me the best deal.
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Parrothead, I think it goes without saying that we would ALL be interested in the best prices you can get? I have been trying to stay in the 7,500 to 10,000 total range (incl. chemicals, steps, lift/cover, taxes, etc.). Just came back from Arctic dealer and heard about their "salt water cleaning system". Anybody have any experience with it in Arctic or other models?
TS
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You know, I really didn't find it to be a "con". Their jets seem to produce a nice spiral shaped flow of water that felt really good. And to me, the feeling I've gotten from all manufacturer's jets is pretty subjective. Even the MotoMassage on Hot Springs -- I liked it (some don't), but other non-"Moto" jets from other makes felt just as good.
And now, thanks to Mendocino, if I feel I'm missing rotating jets, I can add them, apparently.
Parrothead & Mendocino - thanks for your responses. In my tub, I greatly prefer the spinning jets over the straight ones. I know Marquis does things differently with their "straight" jets, using higher-flow jets & such. I like everything about Marquis, and my only question was about the jets. So I just wanted to hear from an actual shopper how the high-flow Marquis jets compare to other top brands like D1 and HS. Obviously, the jet design works, for Parrothead and lots of other happy Marquis customers.
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I had a customer come in yesterday for supplies and I asked how they were enjoying their spa and they commented about how much they liked it and how they had been in some friends tubs and how they could tell what a difference there was. One of their friends came by and soaked in their spa and they had recently purchased a Costco spa and their friend said that their spa felt nothing like his from Costco and how much better it was and that he now was having second thoughts about his Costco spa. Marquis jets are Hi Flow with low pressure and for many people it is a great soak. The spinning jets do feel good but simply because of their design will not get as deep into the muscle tissue as a direct jet will. I think both work but the direct jet will get deeper and should a have longer lasting effect on the body.
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I purchased a couple of spinning jets for my Epic. I thought my husband would like them. Personally, I really don't think they were that impressive. As Mendo has said, the design on Marquis jets allows for a perfect massage that can be adjusted using the power of the pumps and the option of the air. The spinners feel nice (I put them on the back jets for the lounge), but I wouldn't chose that seat because of them. It all depends on they type of therapy that you want. My son thinks they are wonderful and would put them on each jet if he could..so it is all personal preference. It's just nice knowing you can switch them out if you want to.
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Bonibelle, how much did the spinning jets cost you? Were they easy to switch out?
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Parrot,
We will change out up to 4 for our customers and than they can buy them for $10.00 some dealers may charge a couple of dollars more, they take literally just a few seconds to change.
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Hi everyone,
I got this answer from a D1 dealer and it made me concerned about wet test safety. :-? Please read what the dealer answered and let me know if he has a point or if he is just being overly careful because he is afraid of getting sued or something. Here is what he wrote:
Ahh the wet test. One of the most dangerous things encountered in Spa shopping. We do not do "wet test" or "test soak", primarily because we would A: have to sell the tub as used. B: The time and costs involved in draining and sanitizing the unit after each test.C: Potential liability for someone else's lack of hygiene. I would not allow someone to use a tub that had been previously used by someone else. There are just too many "bugs" out there that can live in 100 degree water. We used to allow the tests, but I was just very uncomfortable not draining the spa after each test. No matter how good the chemical sanitization is, there is always the off chance of something nasty.
I do know of dealers that permit them, but I personally would not do a wet test ANYWHERE.
Thanks for your input,
Chancelund
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Sorry, I don't buy it, He sounds like a manure salesman with a big mouth full of samples. sanitize your spa, hit it heavy if you feel you should. We take our responsibility quite seriously to be sure our spas are properly maintained and safe for those who wet test (very few). The dealer does not sound like someone I would want to do business with.
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Hi everyone,
I got this answer from a D1 dealer and it made me concerned about wet test safety. :-? Please read what the dealer answered and let me know if he has a point or if he is just being overly careful because he is afraid of getting sued or something. Here is what he wrote:
Ahh the wet test. One of the most dangerous things encountered in Spa shopping. We do not do "wet test" or "test soak", primarily because we would A: have to sell the tub as used. B: The time and costs involved in draining and sanitizing the unit after each test.C: Potential liability for someone else's lack of hygiene. I would not allow someone to use a tub that had been previously used by someone else. There are just too many "bugs" out there that can live in 100 degree water. We used to allow the tests, but I was just very uncomfortable not draining the spa after each test. No matter how good the chemical sanitization is, there is always the off chance of something nasty.
I do know of dealers that permit them, but I personally would not do a wet test ANYWHERE.
Thanks for your input,
Chancelund
As far as A & B, that is laughable. He apparently doesn't want to be inconvenienced. Doesn't he realize he has to put in some time, effort and pain to make a sale sometimes?
As for C, what a joke. Was he letting homeless drug addicts test the spas previously? That's what chlorine is for. I'll bet he sells used spas occasionally but has some reason why that's different.
Stay away from this kind of dealer. He probably has some kind of rule against not liking to come out to people's home for warranty service because he hates to waste gas.
Are you really buying into this crap and not wet testing because of him? This guy is too lazy to set up spas and care for them in his showroom and probably hates to have to discount his wet tests spas $500 when it comes time to sell the floor models.
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Chaunce,
This guy's answers are flat out stupid.
I don't know one person on this forum who would recommend to NOT wet test. That's like a car dealer telling you to not take a car for a test drive. How would you ever know if you liked the way the seats feel, or the way the car drives?
I would leave this dealer behind and move on. Hopefully, you have a D1 dealer within a reasonable distance so you can wet test if you want. If not, go on to the other brands and find out which one is for you.
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I have to agree with the others on this guy's silly reasons for not allowing test soaks :-? Find another dealer.
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Gotta throw my 2 cents here...
It's entirely possible that I've wet tested more hot tubs then any customer in this history of this forum; nearly 20 of them actually. I visted most every dealer in the Washington DC area and trust me, there's a lot of em. Only one dealer I called did not allow wet tests. After hearing that I gave them just enough of my time to do the following...
"Thank you..." <click>
In my opinion, wet testing is the most important factor when buying a hot tub. Here's an excerpt from my report
If at all possible, wet test any spa you would consider purchasing. It is interesting to note that the majority of spa shoppers never try out their spa until after it is installed.
I have received a fair amount of feedback suggesting that wet testing is a good idea but not necessarily essential. Just remember that you are likely spending $4000-$10000. I should think that alone is reason enough to bring a towel and swimsuit when you visit the dealer. For the shy or self-conscious I suggest visiting the store early in the day or an hour before closing on a weeknight. From my personal experience and from all the posts and e-mails I have received from thankful readers, I can state with confidence that many spas look a lot more comfortable than they feel when you sit in them with the jets running.
Most dealers have 1-3 spas ready for wet testing, usually their top of the line models. If the model you really want is not filled and you are serious about negotiating price, don’t be afraid to ask the dealer to set it up. You might have to come back another day since this takes time. Also, some may ask for a refundable $50-200 deposit. Since this takes a bit of time and effort, dealers don’t want to do this unless you are serious. A deposit to test a spa may seem unreasonable but I can appreciate their reasons. Just make sure you are serious before you ask, get the refundable status in writing, and use a credit card so you are protected.
In the report there is a lot of additional information about how to wet test a spa and what to look for (see "Wet Test Considerations" section).
http://www.members.cox.net/duffman471/Spa_Wet_Testing_Analysis.htm
Best of luck to you.
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Gotta throw my 2 cents here...
It's entirely possible that I've wet tested more hot tubs then any customer in this history of this forum; nearly 20 of them actually. I visted most every dealer in the Washington DC area and trust me, there's a lot of em. Only one dealer that I called that did not allow wet tests. After hearing that I gave them just enough of my time to do the following...
Well, 20 spas is sure a lot and I'm sure you felt justified with your decision in the end. I only know of one person who wet tested more. He came with his notebook, had a scoring system, had visited about 10 dealers and had wet tested about 25 by then. I know because when I heard him telling the salesperson about his venture I sauntered over and he gladly shared his system and I saw his notes. Quite impressive though I wondered if he really needed to test that many but it obviously became somewhat of a game/mission. I gotta respect people that put the time in. They balance out the 1% on the other end of the curve that come in and spend about 5 minutes before saying "OK, I'll take that one". He proceeded to wet test and add to his matrix. In the end I'm sure whatever he bought he slept well at night without too much buyer's remorse.
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I wasn't trying to set a record but wanted to make two key points:
1) A very small minority of dealers in my experience do not allow wet tests. I wouldn't choose to do business with them.
2) I believe wet testing is critical. You can't judge how a hot tub will feel or perform by looking at it or even sitting in it dry.
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Absolutely, do not EVER do business with a spa dealer who is so lazy that they will not offer you the opportunity to wet test. I always offer customers the chance to do so and most of them look at me like that is the craziest thing they've ever heard.
Dealers who do not make this an integral part of the shopping experience are sorely missing out. I'll bet in the almost 9 years I've been doing this, less than 30 folks have taken me up on it. The most recent couple came in this past Saturday, had an enjoyable time trying out the spas, and bought themselves a new Sovereign.
No one else around here (East Texas) encourages wet testing. At best, they have one spa full of water out in the middle of the store which is not conducive to most folks' comfort zone.
You have to make it an EXPERIENCE that they will enjoy. Shopping for spas is supposed to be fun and relaxing...we do our best to make it both!
Terminator
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Absolutely, do not EVER do business with a spa dealer who is so lazy that they will not offer you the opportunity to wet test. I always offer customers the chance to do so and most of them look at me like that is the craziest thing they've ever heard.
Terminator
They may think the idea is crazy but at least they know that by making the offer you have nothing to hide (other than the guns, beer and liquor). Oh, I forgot, you don't hide those either.
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They may think the idea is crazy but at least they know that by making the offer you have nothing to hide (other than the guns, beer and liquor). Oh, I forgot, you don't hide those either.
Those are all simply tools of the successful spa dealer used to enhance the overall experience for the customer:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/shortspark.jpg)
Terminator
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Hi everyone,
I got this answer from a D1 dealer and it made me concerned about wet test safety. :-? Please read what the dealer answered and let me know if he has a point or if he is just being overly careful because he is afraid of getting sued or something. Here is what he wrote:
Ahh the wet test. One of the most dangerous things encountered in Spa shopping. We do not do "wet test" or "test soak", primarily because we would A: have to sell the tub as used. B: The time and costs involved in draining and sanitizing the unit after each test.C: Potential liability for someone else's lack of hygiene. I would not allow someone to use a tub that had been previously used by someone else. There are just too many "bugs" out there that can live in 100 degree water. We used to allow the tests, but I was just very uncomfortable not draining the spa after each test. No matter how good the chemical sanitization is, there is always the off chance of something nasty.
I do know of dealers that permit them, but I personally would not do a wet test ANYWHERE.
Thanks for your input,
Chancelund
Seems to me, if it was that dangerous for someone to get in the tub, he should just quit selling the things at all before he gets sued.
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I'll chime in with the "wet testing is essential" pack!
Furthermore, what is this moron saying about the quality of his spas, if they don't filter (with the help of chemicals) anything that they come into contact with.
My area D1 dealer was more than happy to allow us to wet test. Just last Friday, we tested a Chairman II and Amore' Bay.
I would at least give the brand a chance and go to the next closest dealer. Otherwise, there are numerous other good brands out there.
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Another thing -- Hey Term, does the Moto seat feel significantly different on an upright seat (Vanguard/Grandee) than in a lounger? I tested an Envoy, but they didn't have a Vanguard or Grandee filled.
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Another thing -- Hey Term, does the Moto seat feel significantly different on an upright seat (Vanguard/Grandee) than in a lounger? I tested an Envoy, but they didn't have a Vanguard or Grandee filled.
No sir, I can't discern any difference betwixt the two.
I absolutely love the Moto DX...the single Moto is about my fourth favorite jet.
Good luck in your continued search! :)
Term
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Mendocino 101, East_Tx_Spa, Spatech t.u.o., Vanguard, IL Parrothead, Wanna Soak Now, Duffman, & Lars: :-* Here is a kiss for taking the time to answer me. You have no idea how much help you are giving us.
I somehow thought that the wet test was safe, but the D1 dealer made it sound like such a bad idea, that I was beginning to question it. I am really a super newbie! :-[
Besides following this hot tub forum, we have only contacted three salespersons to date. The Thermospas guy was just too pushy and you all helped me to realize he was just a snake oil salesman, even if my husband did like the spa.
Then I went to Sundance and they had wet tests, but I wasn't sure I liked the spa. On the other hand, the salesperson was patient and informative, without being pushy.
Now, the salesperson that the D1 site referred me to seems like someone I shouldn't even try to work with. You all have shot down his reasons for not allowing wet tests.
Well, so far two out of three businesses I have contacted are on the wacky side. I never thought I was going to have so much trouble finding a dealer I could believe. I am really getting an education here.
A million thanks,
Chancelund
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Duffman:
My husband said he loves your "report" and is very grateful that you were willing to share it with us.
He has all 29 pages printed out and it is helping us decide how to go about comparing the spas we will now "wet test".
[smiley=thumbsup.gif]
Chancelund
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Hi Chancelund,
Always puts a smile on my face when a fellow consumer finds that document useful. Please don't think that you need to wet test a dozen spas though. If the report helps you identify what type of layout, features, and price range best meets your needs, your search will be much easier to narrow down. You can probably find the perfect spa for your family with only 2-3 wet tests. Be assured that your patience will pay off.
Best wishes to you both :)
Duffman
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Chancelund,
Good luck with your search and thanks for the kiss :o...never been kissed on a forum before.
I tested out Cal Spa, Hot Spring, Tiger River, Coleman, Artesian and a few others. Not one place had any issues with test soaking. All they asked is that we gave them a time frame so they could have the spa I was interested in ready for a test soak. A few were willing to go for after hours soaks for privacy.
I was ready to buy the Coleman because it fit my body just fine, (I am the primary user) I went back to the Hot Spring dealer to double check "wet test" on the Jetsetter and Solana (I only have a small space to place a spa). Dennis, the Hot Spring dealer, looked back over my sketch of the planned space and suggested the Tiger River Sumatran as I just didn't like the Jetsetter.
While we waited out soaking in some of the other wonderful filled spas he filled the Sumatran for me. No, it wasn't fancy but this dealer had NO PROBLEM filling a spa for me and my friends to test out.
I really liked it, didn't float out of the seats, loved the foot jet, the size was perfect for my space etc. I really appreciated the time he took to go the extra mile in making sure I understood how it worked.
I realize many folks do NOT test soak. But, if I had not had the opportunity to check out many others with water in them I am sure I would have been very dissapointed.
It's to bad that the D1 dealer is such a lazy ass as D1 is a good company (I just don't buy the line of bull he gave you)....Spend the time and search. I'm sure you will find the right one for you even if you do have to drive a bit farther. In the long soak it will be worth it. :)
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Tomorrow starts the negotiating. Probably will begin with Marquis Epic and HS Grandee. I'll keep you posted!
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I have gotten down to Marquis Epic or Euphoria, Arctic Legend SE Avalanche or Kodiak and Master Spas LSX or LS800. Any suggestions, price estimates or other helpful info?
TS
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http://consumerist.com/consumer/master-spas/hot-tub-dealer-sets-up-competitive-fair-where-its-the-only-seller-219550.php
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1145986092;start=0
Buyer Beware!
Terminator
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Thanks for the feedback, pictures and links!
Sounds like the quality and sales practices are both pretty shady, huh?!
Duffman's wet test and review praise them and everything but their price tags?
TS
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You are certainly welcome! :)
Here's a little more information just in case you need it!
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1163025624/0
Terminator
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You are certainly welcome! :)
Here's a little more information just in case you need it!
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1163025624/0
Terminator
Term,
Thanx for posting this. A friend came by to talk to me about our new HS spa and had been over at a 'Tent sale' at the local mall and was asking me questions. It turns out that it probably was this group and I forwarded your informational posts from him. Just got a text saying thank-you as they had his wife all wrapped up on the sale and once he showed her what I sent him, she backed out immediately. I gave you credit; however, he wanted to know if you were close. When I told him you were in East Texas, he commented: "Hmmm...might be too far for a fast service call." I referred him to an HS dealer about 100 miles away (the closest here in AZ to us...the one I bought from); however, he repeated that he appreciated your posts, so, for my Elks buddy, Thnx!!
The Doob
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Howdy all!
I have truly enjoyed this forum and have been the beneficiary of some wonderful advice and observations in our quest for our first spa. Like Parrothead and others on this thread, I have taken the time to do the research and have wet tested several spas in attempts to "pull the trigger" by the end of November. In looking for no-lounge seating, I had narrowed our search to the Caldera Niagra, Tiger River Caspian, HS Vanguard, D1 Lotus Bay and Nautilus and the Jacuzzi J-365 and J-470. And although Marquis has many great reviews, we don't have a dealer in our region so they weren't even an option. After my wife and I wet tested all but the Lotus Bay (not wet at our dealer), our finalists are the J-470 and Nautilus, although I am still considering the Lotus Bay as well based on the features and specs.
She and I really like both brands and are torn with which one to go with, but I am leaning towards Jacuzzi due to the track record of our dealer in San Antonio as they have been in business for 20 years and have always carried Jacuzzi products. Conversely, our D1 dealer has only had the brand for just over a year. My question for the group is how much should the dealers history weigh in our decision?
Also, although I realize that pricing is market dependent, I would welcome any feedback on the quotes that we have received for the spas that we are considering. The prices quoted are with no stereo and without tax:
Nautilus (w/ LFX, Ultralife Shell, steps, chems and hyd cover lift) - $9900
Lotus Bay (w/ LFX, Ultralife Shell, steps, chems and hyd cover lift) - $10900
J-470 (w/ opt high output ozone, steps, chems and hyd cover lift) - $10300
Regarding our wet tests, we nixed Caldera due to the wrap around pillow on the neck jet seat and my wife was't impressed with Vanguard (although I liked the Moto-Massage jets). Also, the Caspian and J-365 were a little to simple for our tastes. We feel very confident with our finalists and want to be sure we make a sound decision on all the factors, including jets and comfort, overall experience and ambiance, price and dealer rep and reliabilty for service after the sale.
This site and forum is the preeminant source for all things hot tub! I look forward to continued participation as a new spa owner instead of just part of the "about to buy" crowd. Thanks for allowing me to join the forum.
Sincerly,
3Jax
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Okay....to get back from the MS talk, I talked to my Marquis guy today. He has 4 Epics in stock -- 1 wet and 2 dry floor models and one still on a pallet. The wet has no stereo, the two other floor models have the soundsation speaker system, or the full Adagio stereo/ipod ready system (one of each). He's offering the wet model for $9000, but then wanted $249 (claims his cost) on stairs and a lifter. He said mid 9's for the two without the full stereo and mid 10's with the full stereo (but claimed if I really wanted that model, he'd go look at his numbers). I was thinking he was still $500 to $1000 high when he called me back and said he'd really like to move the wet floor model and would come down further. My wife doesn't like the shell color on that one, and it doesn't have the chrome accent rings around the jets, so I have to give it some thought.
Was offered a year and a half to two year old D1 Chairman II wet floor model (kept outside) last week for $6 K with full warranty. I like the price, but my wife didn't care for the tub. :(
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Okay....to get back from the MS talk, I talked to my Marquis guy today. He has 4 Epics in stock -- 1 wet and 2 dry floor models and one still on a pallet. The wet has no stereo, the two other floor models have the soundsation speaker system, or the full Adagio stereo/ipod ready system (one of each). He's offering the wet model for $9000, but then wanted $249 (claims his cost) on stairs and a lifter. He said mid 9's for the two without the full stereo and mid 10's with the full stereo (but claimed if I really wanted that model, he'd go look at his numbers). I was thinking he was still $500 to $1000 high when he called me back and said he'd really like to move the wet floor model and would come down further. My wife doesn't like the shell color on that one, and it doesn't have the chrome accent rings around the jets, so I have to give it some thought.
Was offered a year and a half to two year old D1 Chairman II wet floor model (kept outside) last week for $6 K with full warranty. I like the price, but my wife didn't care for the tub. :(
Do NOT let the salesman pressure you into buying what HE wants you to buy. Trust me, he CAN come down where he needs to be on the others, he just doesn't want to because HE WANTS to sell you the floor model. I think you already know that if your wife isn't happy now, she will REALLY not be happy later (when/if something breaks). I KNOW you can already hear it ... "I TOLD you not to buy THAT tub..."
So far it really doesn't sound like your dealer has any incentive to negotiate. You need LEVERAGE man!
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3Jax, welcome!
ndabunka -- good points. My wife actually likes the Marquis best of all the tubs we tested. I have let the Marquis salesman that he's in a battle with the Hot Springs dealer and D1 dealer that are within 5 minutes from my house. He's 45 miles away. At least outwardly, he appears to be the most willing to deal, so we'll see what happens.......
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I just finished reading all 7 pages... this is exciting! I can't wait to see what you end up getting for a deal.. and which spa you walk away with. ;)
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My wife and I take the plunge shortly in the Marquis Epic and new Euphoria models.
Will let you know our impressions. Early quotes around 8,500 to 9,000 range.
TS
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We had an enjoyable wet test at the local Marquis dealership. We were not real impressed by the Euphoria model or the lounger concept verus the "Adirondack" style seat which was much more enjoyable. The Epic was a much better overall tub for what we are looking for in our situation. The seating, the neck jets, the variable foot, calf and hammie jets, as well as the Adirondack were all great. The zoned controls are both a positive and negative, as they do let you have a more varied experience, and yet are more complex to get used to and control. If we go with Marquis it would be teh Epic model, quoted out at 9,800 plus tax. I am still interested in your experience on wet tests and price quotes for the Arctics and Marquis in particular, and maybe the Master Spas just to keep East Texas involved in the debate?!
Thanks for your opinions and feedback,
TS
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My wife and I liked the Epic as well, it's probably our combined #1, so I've begun negotiating with our dealer. Last night, he offered me $9000 on a wet floor model, but then wanted $249 for stairs and lifter. He called back after that to say he'll come down further. Keep in touch on your price situation.
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Howdy all!
I have truly enjoyed this forum and have been the beneficiary of some wonderful advice and observations in our quest for our first spa. Like Parrothead and others on this thread, I have taken the time to do the research and have wet tested several spas in attempts to "pull the trigger" by the end of November. In looking for no-lounge seating, I had narrowed our search to the Caldera Niagra, Tiger River Caspian, HS Vanguard, D1 Lotus Bay and Nautilus and the Jacuzzi J-365 and J-470. And although Marquis has many great reviews, we don't have a dealer in our region so they weren't even an option. After my wife and I wet tested all but the Lotus Bay (not wet at our dealer), our finalists are the J-470 and Nautilus, although I am still considering the Lotus Bay as well based on the features and specs.
She and I really like both brands and are torn with which one to go with, but I am leaning towards Jacuzzi due to the track record of our dealer in San Antonio as they have been in business for 20 years and have always carried Jacuzzi products. Conversely, our D1 dealer has only had the brand for just over a year. My question for the group is how much should the dealers history weigh in our decision?
Also, although I realize that pricing is market dependent, I would welcome any feedback on the quotes that we have received for the spas that we are considering. The prices quoted are with no stereo and without tax:
Nautilus (w/ LFX, Ultralife Shell, steps, chems and hyd cover lift) - $9900
Lotus Bay (w/ LFX, Ultralife Shell, steps, chems and hyd cover lift) - $10900
J-470 (w/ opt high output ozone, steps, chems and hyd cover lift) - $10300
Regarding our wet tests, we nixed Caldera due to the wrap around pillow on the neck jet seat and my wife was't impressed with Vanguard (although I liked the Moto-Massage jets). Also, the Caspian and J-365 were a little to simple for our tastes. We feel very confident with our finalists and want to be sure we make a sound decision on all the factors, including jets and comfort, overall experience and ambiance, price and dealer rep and reliabilty for service after the sale.
This site and forum is the preeminant source for all things hot tub! I look forward to continued participation as a new spa owner instead of just part of the "about to buy" crowd. Thanks for allowing me to join the forum.
Sincerly,
3Jax
3Jax,
Check your forum email. I have sent you a PM.
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Vanguard,
Thanks so much for the feedback. Your insight is exactly what I was looking for!
3Jax
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IL Parrothead: The price they offered you is a really good deal on the Epic. Most Marquis dealers sell it in the 10,500-11,500 range.
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Hey Buffet-man, what options are quoted for the 9,000? I assume it is an 06 or 07 model?
Are there lights or stereo?
Cover Lifter?
We try Arctic's Summit tonight. Will update you later.
TS
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Just read your page 7 post again and see the asnwers to most ofmy question.
Sounds like he'd like to get out of the old model...9k for the new one sounds better.
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Yeah, I'm getting tired of looking. I wanna buy! Hopefully, he'll come down some more.
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We tested the Arctic Summit and were pleased with about half the tub. The staff were wonderful to us, the setting was right, but we intend to go back and wet-test the Avalanche model and hope for seating, jets and experience that we're looking for. The Arctic tested great (especially the arm rests/jets, power to the foot jet, the back area is covered nicely in all seats, but not much neck area coverage). The Av SE is pretty pricey, quoted at 13k+, so not sure we'll go with it versus Marquis epic unless the price changes and the test experience is amazing. It would be nice to decide, agree on price and know when to expect delivery....which sounds like it can be 3 to 7 weeks?
TS
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Term,
Thanx for posting this.
The Doob
You and your friend are more than welcome. I'm glad the information was put to good use. :)
Term
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Just came back from Arctic dealer and heard about their "salt water cleaning system".
Well, it's not quite "our" system! Any salt water cleaning system is an after-market add-on provided and installed by the dealer. The warrantee on such products comes from their original manufacturer, not from Arctic.
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Does this nullify the Arctic warranty because of a non-Arctic solution?
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Vanguard or 3jax-
Would you care to share the PM insights?
If 3jax found that PM useful than probably others may find it valuable, too?
Thanks for any help you can provide.
TS
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Salt water systems work great for pools but not so great in spas. I think most people who have had experience with salt water systems in hot tubs would tell you to stay away from them. There's a reason no major spa manufacturer has a salt system built in to the spa.
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tbills,
Vanguard is familiar with the dealers that I am working with here in San Antonio and was able to offer some insight for me to consider. That's all.
3Jax
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tbills,
Vanguard is familiar with the dealers that I am working with here in San Antonio and was able to offer some insight for me to consider. That's all.
3Jax
This reply just made gave me an idea. Is anyone familiar with dealers in northwestern New Jersey or northeastern PA? I live along I-80 right on the state line. I keep thinking of which spas are best, but the dealer really matters too! Thanks to any input people might have.
Chancelund
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Thanks 3jax Vanguard for yur reply. That makes sense. The dealers/sales people are obviously just as critical as the tub based upon the many forum entries on this site. I feel pretty good about them in my area, and think it's now down to the best wet test and best pricing!
Happy Turkey-day everyone!!
TS
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Does this nullify the Arctic warranty because of a non-Arctic solution?
As long as the product is on our list of authorized add-ons or the dealer checks first with us there is no problem.
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Is anyone familiar with dealers in northwestern New Jersey or northeastern PA? I live along I-80 right on the state line. I keep thinking of which spas are best, but the dealer really matters too! Thanks to any input people might have.
I purchased my Sundance Cameo from Willow Park Pool & Spa in Bethlehem, PA. A friend of mine purchased his spa from them about 10 years ago. They carry both Sundance & Hot Spring spas.
If you do plan a visit, PM me. I'd get $100 in store credit if you buy a tub from them. 8-)
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Dax:
Thanks for the information on the dealer. If we go look there, I will be sure to give you the "bird-dog" credit. I think it is so important to hear from people who have actually dealt with the dealers and know the quality of service they supply.
Chancelund
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As long as we're talking dealers, anyone have great experiences with a dealer in the Chicagoland area?
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Well Parrothead, my pseudo-husband....we meet again! I can't take all this wet testing and decision making on my own, with only you and these boards as help! Now that I have tested D-1, Hot Springs, Tiger River, Caldera, Vita, Sundance and Dynasty, I realize I like something about all of them! I wish we had a Marquis, Coleman or Artesian dealer in South Florida, but I haven't found them.
My favorites:
Caldera Niagra
Sundance Optima (tied for first)
Vita (I forgot the name) A close second In fact 3 spas are ties for second from Vita!
Tiger River Caspian (A little too plain)
Dynasty-best neck jets of all, but the rest of the spa was weak.
D-1, prettiest, but no seat was comfy.
I have set the date as tomorrow to BUY. I have good deals on the table I think for a Caldera Niagra (may work on this price a bit) $8395 w/steps, delivery, lifter....no stereo. Sundance Optima...$9500 w/steps, delivery, ozone, chemicals, external lights and lifter WITH stereo, ordered new.
While I think I may like the therapy of the Caldera a tiny bit better, and the lighting system. But I certainly like the looks of the Sundance better while still enjoying the jets of course.
I have family down, and from the marketing materials, of course everyone picked the Sundance (Caldera really does a bad job with that), so my brother-in-law may stand in as my pseudo husband, and re-test the top 2!!! (Sorry parrot!) or I might even get my REAL husband to come (reluctantly) while the family watches the kids!
BLACK FRIDAY IS D-DAY!!!!!
I will come home with paperwork in hand!!!!
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Ivie, I know you've done a lot of wet testing. I wet tested Caldera and did not Sundance -- for some odd reason, my wife didn't like the look/feel of Sundance's cabinets and didn't like the feel of their diverter valves. Little things like that kind of set her off, and she has to like it as much as I or she'll never enjoy it. I know a lot of people that love Sundance -- of course, it's a subjective thing. I agree that Caldera's marketing isn't the greatest, but IMO they're just as nice looking as the Sundance. If they're tied for first, and you like the therapy of the Caldera better AND you're saving $1100........Just had to chime in as your pseudo-husband. :o
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Thanks, I never really "felt" the diverter valves, I'll have to check out what you mean. I actually like the look of the cabinet on Sundance the most. Most likely because they are different. The DARK brown is so rich, and when most other manufacturers have redwood or grey only. Plus, they have these Louvered slats that look like shutters on the 800 series. It looks more like furniture to me. It just "felt" like a better spa. Fit, finish, the cup tray made to fit...little details get me.
That is why I finally had to cut out Vita. I really love the jet set ups in their spas. They make a really unique spa with lots of power and different features. But they have like 75 little tiny LED lights that run around the waters edge. I like colored lights. A lot. These were really cool when I first saw them....REALLY cool, but then, in 2 years....its more like 75 little holes in my spa, and if one burns out I'd always be annoyed. Plus, they had a black plastic filter cover/cup holder. Looks cheap compared with the "top" brands.
Hopefully my husband will come today and break the tie. Most likely he'll still say "get what you want".
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The '08 models seem to be hitting the market, which brings up the topic of whether or not consumers may be able to get 'bargains' on the '07 or '06 models that are still in inventory? And if so, if the order is placed via the dealer to the manufacturer to select one of these and open up room for the new inventory, then how much can we expect to save? Any experience or suggestions?
TS
PS Still confused by the Parrothead's relationships? Pseudo-wife?
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We've been shopping "together" on line, looking for good neck jets. My husband hasn't wanted to come with me, so Parrothead has virtually taken his place. I'm just using his experiences as my second opinion.
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Hey! Well my real husband liked the Caldera, and while he, like me, loved the way the Sundance looked, he hated it. He didn't like the moving jets, and felt like all he wanted to do was get out. Now that he is into shopping, I think I'll take him to try a Vita too before getting the Caldera.
So, it wasn't D-day after all.......but at least I eliminated one.
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Just back from wet test of Arctic Avalanche with wife. Nice time, and good overall experience. The Marquis Epic still seems to have a better neck area jet experience. The big foot area jet on the Arctics is powerful, but not really positioned in the best place. The structure (forever floor, wood exterior, fit and finish of shell, thickness of shell and cover) were all better with Arctic. Prices are higher with Arctic. I think it's finally down to these 2 tubs, Marquis Epic vs. Arctic Avalanche. It may depend on whether there are '06 AA's in inventory that they can make a deal on to get more in line with the ME price or not. The weather is nice for tubbing, and we want to be done and start to get excited about a delivery date instead of shopping....
TS
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Searchin,
When I was looking, It was a toss up at first between the Sundance Optima(wanted a foot dome, so I thought) and Caldera Aspire. Loved the look of the Optima also but when my wife and I wet tested it, we both just did not like the feel of the seats. Also my wife triped over the foot dome twice while we we moving around checking out all the seating positions.
Loved the foot ridge in the Aspire. Surprised more don't do that. Also all the corner seats were very comfortable and veriety of jet positions are great. I was also looking for nice lighting and stereo and the Aspire comes with both.
I have had the Aspire since May and absolutly love it.
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Thanks. I tried the Aspire too, but it was missing the air pump and neck jets that I like. I think I'd like to go as big as possible too, being that this is for family fun. So I'm going to put in some outdoor speakers and probably get the Niagra. Vita has the one big Rendezvous I'd now like to check out, but I don't think any dealer has one wet to try. Maybe if my husband likes a smaller Vita they will try to fill a big one for us, otherwise Caldera will be it. I haven't heard a negative thing about Calderas, so it seems like a good bet. Plus, I like the lighting too!
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Still waiting to hear about the purchase???
Parrothead, any luck yet?
We are still trying to get our deal done, and just waiting on pricing and availability issues, with hopes to be sitting comfortably in a tub by Xmas...
It was awfully tempting to go wet test again today as the snow was falling pretty heavy this afternoon in MI.
TS
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Well, parrothead....I bought the Niagra today.....come'on, keep up with me here, we need to have a pseudo-married soak! Mine is arriving on Thursday, electric on Friday. Hope to be soakin Friday night!
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Still waiting to hear about the purchase???
Parrothead, any luck yet?
We are still trying to get our deal done, and just waiting on pricing and availability issues, with hopes to be sitting comfortably in a tub by Xmas...
It was awfully tempting to go wet test again today as the snow was falling pretty heavy this afternoon in MI.
TS
No. No luck yet. I listened to a lot of the advice here on "settling". Decided I wouldn't go for the wet floor model Epic, as my wife really does not like the color combo. Also, my electrician and carpenter friends are apparently now all sissy-guys, and haven't been willing to come out in the cold and get my prep work done. So, I haven't finalized a price yet on a tub to order.
Like you Tbills, I'm tempted to wet test the 2 brands my wife nixed (Sundance and Jacuzzi) while waiting for the guys to get their work done. So far, it's still Epic all the way, but I might just do a couple of wet tests this week on my own. The saga continues.......(for now)
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Well, parrothead....I bought the Niagra today.....come'on, keep up with me here, we need to have a pseudo-married soak! Mine is arriving on Thursday, electric on Friday. Hope to be soakin Friday night!
Gave you mad congrats on the other forum, but for those only on this one...........[size=14][/size]CONGRATS!!!
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If you didn't wet test Jacuzzi and Sundance, you should. I was dead set on buying a Hotsprings because I bought into my sales guys pitch (he was very convincing). I ended up with a Jacuzzi. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by going and sitting in those other tubs.
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You know, Solo, you were one of the people I was thinking of last night when I said I might just do that (wet test Sundance and Jacuzzi). And without reading this morning's post, on the way into work I stopped at my local Jacuzzi/Sundance dealer. He only had a Maxxus wet -- nothing else -- which I found odd since he also has Jacuzzi and Viking spas on the floor. He did call me back and tell me another of their stores (about a half hour away) usually has more wet. Called there. They have a J480, J365, Maxxus and Optima wet -- made an appointment for tomorrow night! I'll report back when I get home tomorrow!
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Ok, just got back from another wet test in Marquis Epic...it was very relaxing!
A few more tidbits of info-Arctic around for 13+ years, Marquis for 28 years.
Tubs quoted: Epic '08 with all the upgrades, stainless jets, constellation lighting (has in tub remote and in house remote) and can be delivered before Xmas for $9,800 total out the door, Avalanche Legend '07 or '08 loaded, but not stainless, but we do have coupon from website for the free Cedar Bar/shelf upgrade, but can't get the blue we want until a couple of months from now or so, for $11,000 out the door. Both of these numbers actually include delivery, chemicals, set-up, step, cover & lift, ozone and both dealers have been very good to work with and very helpful when we have questions. The Arctic dealer has carried th Arctic for 3+ years, and the Marquis guy has handled Marquis' for 9+ years and seems to really know his stuff and have a greater knowledge of the industry. So, we're finally down to decision time and the fact that we can get the Epic before the holidays, can get the blue we like, can get the '08 model, and it is $1,200 less will likely swing our decision. Any final, final thoughts???
Looks like we may beat you to the tub Parrothead....
TS
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I was at my dealer's yesterday buying chems for my tub and the owner was talking to a perspective buyer..She was looking at the Epic and he was explaining the neck jets and the deep therapy seat and trizone. It was amazing, I was sold all over again..and glad to be coming home to my Epic..Has anyone else watched a sales person sell the tub that they own?..It was everything I could do to hold back from elaborating on his every comment. YES!!., I wanted to say, you will love the trizone and the foot jets in that deep therapy seat are heavenly...the HK40's deliver a massage second to none..but I just watched. :-/..glad to be coming home to my Epic with that decision already made...and full satisfaction from my purchase. ;)
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Okay.....wet test update! I tested 4 tubs tonight, and boy do I feel great! I will sleep like a baby tonight! Here are my personal observations:
Jacuzzi J480 -- Beautiful tub. Very classy. Extremely relaxing. Gentle massage. Stayed in the tub the longest of the 4. The salesman owns a Sundance Optima at his house. Loves it for therapy, but says he actually relaxes more sitting in the Jacuzzi -- less punishing, but still effective massage. Has to be (for me and my wife) the most comfortable lounger we've been in. Fit my body like a glove (I'm 5'11") and my wife liked it too (5'8"). She didn't float. The corner therapy seat felt great.
Sundance Maxxus -- Also very nice. Started out with the air pump bubbling, for the soft tissue therapy for a few minutes before kicking on the jets. Jacuzzi and Sundance both keep their neck jets under water, unlike some other manufacturers. I just scooted down a bit in the seat and still got a decent neck massage. Much quieter than the tubs with jets above the waterline. The Sundance was definitely a much stronger, somewhat harsh jet compared to the Jacuzzi. I didn't mind it, but my wife didn't like it at all (similar to Ivie's husband). I did like the variety of seating positions in both the J480 and the Maxxus. I thought the lounger in the Maxxus was okay. My wife floated in it.
Sundance Optima -- Similar to my experience in the Maxxus, but I liked the room to roam in the Maxxus. Wife didn't really care for it.
CalSpas -- I believe it was the SQ92. Neck jets were just okay. Didn't do anything enough for me to be real impressed after the Jacuzzi and Sundance.
Again, subjectively speaking -- I really enjoyed the J480. I'd put it up there with the Epic for the tub that worked the best for me. My wife and I had a long talk on the way home and after putting the kids to bed. I agree that I didn't like it enough to justify the $2,000 premium over the Marquis Epic. My wife loved the Epic best, hands down. So, tomorrow I start working the Marquis dealer hard, and my tradesmen harder. I'd love to soak before Christmas!!!
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You've loved that Epic all along.......wish there was one here for me to try! But I'm very happy with my purchase.....coming TODAY!!!!! Wish I could get the electrician out today too....I had the hardest workout ever yesterday and I am so sore! The Jacuzzi dealer here wanted 15,000 for the big one and wouldn't let me test it, so that one I never got to try. Pretty tub though!
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Yeah, I was frustrated about that with Jacuzzi -- the price shown on the board next to the tub was $16,800. They then immediately offered it to me (for cash or 1 year or less financing) for $12,070 with stereo, $11,100 without. Why even display the inflated price?
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Yeah, I was frustrated about that with Jacuzzi -- the price shown on the board next to the tub was $16,800. They then immediately offered it to me (for cash or 1 year or less financing) for $12,070 with stereo, $11,100 without. Why even display the inflated price?
I've noticed that everywhere I went. Arctic had signs that said "This weekend only!" prices, and they were all 5 grand cheaper than the supposed normal prices.
It's the same thing at car dealerships and mattress stores. They expect you to go in there and try to haggle, so they set this really high starting price (probably the MSRP).
I'd like it if they'd just advertise what the thing actually sells for and that's the price (Costco does that, it's nice).
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Realistically, I've just started ignoring the MSRP, realizing that most top-end tubs are all within a thousand or two of each other.
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My dealer here (in Baltimore County) took the "no haggle" approach with me...
The J480 "package deal" was 14K flat...
Delivered, set up, tax, title and tags...
Stereo w/ sub woofer & floating remote (which just sounds awesome!)
No Ozone (he talked me out of it, I was ready to pay extra for it)
It came with:
Cover and lifter (CM3),
Matching steps,
Leisuretime start up kit (bromine),
3 months worth of sanitizer & MPS shock (brom tabs with a real floater & renew)
1 Jacuzzi Robe
1 Jacuzzi towel
1 Rubber duckie (jacuzzi branded of course)
and a $100 gift certificate for anything in the store
I may have overpaid a bit, but I just LOVED the 480 as did the wife... :)
We never even blinked at the price
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Ordered the Marquis Epic this morning!
Estimated arrival 12-15, so we're excited to take delivery and start tubbing!
Beat you to it there Parrothead...
Good luck!
It's nice to feel we've done the right amount of shopping, wet testing, finding out about the details and coming up with a deal. Of course, you never know if the price was a great deal, or if you might have been able to save a few hundred or thousand more...
TS
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tbillMI: Congrats! You're gonna love that spa. What color combo did you get? I'm assuming you got a 2008 model? Did you get the signature package?
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Yes, to the Signature package and '08, with blue granite and the vertical-horizontal brown wood look.
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Okay, now I feel dumb. What's the Signature package? :-?
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Signature Collection has:
9 button control system
2 MP160 jet pumps
320 GPM max flow rate
SmartClean w/dual vortex filters
Constant Clean w/ozonator
Aqua Ambiance LED light system
All weather DuraWood vertical, horizontal or combo pattern
Spa color choices
DuraCover
Waterfall and tray system
Cushioned headrests
Stainless jet trim
In home spa monitor and in tub remote w/alarm system
We added the Constellation lighting, but no stereo (didn't want to disturb the niehgbors!) We plan to put a TV monitor either inside the nearest window or run the wires outside and bring a flatscreen in/out when needed to be able to watch some of our Spartan sports and other stuff!
Did you get the BIG new '08 foldout brochure? It lists all the options and all the tubs for easy comparison.
TS
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TS,
No, it sounds like I got a 2007 brochure, which doesn't list much! Yours sounds awesome! Congrats!
I'm with you though. Once I pull the trigger, I'm not gonna look back. I, of course, won't pull the trigger until I think I have a decent deal. But once I start soaking, I'm not going to worry about if I could have done better!
That's my final answer! :D
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Well, my Niagra is up to 88*! Here in Florida it's warm tonight, so we will go in it cool! 8:00 soaking, regardless of temperature!! I'm not having the best luck getting a good night shot though, and the Caldera lighting system is the best!
I hope the chemicals are OK.....
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Ivie, take some day shots to get started, so we can see your new purchase!
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Talked to Marquis dealer today. Offered me the wet floor model (color combo my wife doesn't like and no chrome accent rings around jets) for $8250. With steps and lifter, 3 months of chemicals, he said $8700 plus tax. Had an interesting chat with him (and afterwards with Marquis Customer Service to confirm) about the change in warranty coverage for 2008 models. He's come down $750 on this demo, but my wife really doesn't like the colors. Hmmm...... :-?
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Another thing -- talking to Ivie and others about Caldera has me wondering something. I stated that the neck jets felt rather weak to me -- even on the strongest setting. I wet tested the Tahitian -- the only Caldera they had filled. It's only 36" deep. The Niagara, Elation and Geneva are all 38" deep. Anyone wet test both to see if there was any significant difference?
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Talked to Marquis dealer today. Offered me the wet floor model (color combo my wife doesn't like and no chrome accent rings around jets) for $8250. With steps and lifter, 3 months of chemicals, he said $8700 plus tax. Had an interesting chat with him (and afterwards with Marquis Customer Service to confirm) about the change in warranty coverage for 2008 models. He's come down $750 on this demo, but my wife really doesn't like the colors. Hmmm...... :-?
What was the starting price on that tub for them? I'm just curious how much of a savings that is, considering the Epic was 10,500 in my area (and I bet they would have gone at least that low too).
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Another thing -- talking to Ivie and others about Caldera has me wondering something. I stated that the neck jets felt rather weak to me -- even on the strongest setting. I wet tested the Tahitian -- the only Caldera they had filled. It's only 36" deep. The Niagara, Elation and Geneva are all 38" deep. Anyone wet test both to see if there was any significant difference?
I tested the tahitian too. It doesn't have the "neck seat!" I just got out of my Niagra. I think I am realizing the jets are plenty strong, I hurt all over from them! So I just got in to float. I turned off all the jets in the "Captains chair" and turned ON the neck jets only. It was the first time I really was able to focus on them. The 2 behind the neck are super-strong. The above water ones are pleasant, but not punishing. There are no splashing issues though, like I had with the Vita and the D-1 neck jets (above water). The tahitian is also missing an air blower, and I think the pumps have different power. There was NO Comparison between the two.
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Ivie, you must be thinking of a different model. I'm on Caldera's websie now and it matches what I experienced in my wet test. It does have the neck seat and blowers. Hmmm. I'm confused. :-?
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I don't know how they can offer an Epic for $8,250! What will they sell you a new one for?
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Ivie, you must be thinking of a different model. I'm on Caldera's websie now and it matches what I experienced in my wet test. It does have the neck seat and blowers. Hmmm. I'm confused. :-?
Wooops! My bad, I confused it with the aspire. Sorry to confuse your whole search now! From other posts, it sounds like you got a great deal on that Epic. What color is it?
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MarKee, it's a wet floor model. Brand new, he originally said he wanted $9900. After talking to him, he said he'd come into the mid 9's. Ivie, I haven't purchased the floor model, because my wife doesn't like the color combination. Trying to decide on whether to order new or not. The change in warranty is further adding to the confusion. They changed the warranty for '08 models.
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I know that has been your hesitation...hence my curiosity as to the color combo of the floor sample. What is the warranty change?
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In 2008 all of the Marquis product lines (Marquis Spas, Everyday Hot Tubs, Hideaway Hot Tubs, Limited Series) were merged in to one line. Most of the spas had a 5/5/3 warranty in 2007 and it was confusing to the salesperson/customer. In 2008 all 12 models have the same warranty. This should clear up the confusion:
2007 Epic Warranty:
7 years - Structure
7 years - Shell Surface
7 years - Plumbing
5 years - Major Components
3 years - Minor Components (ozonator, fuses, light bulbs, diverter valves, jet faces)
Transferrable to subsequent owners
2008 Epic Warranty:
10 years - Structure
7 years - Shell Surface
5 years - Plumbing
5 years - Major Components
2 years - Ozonator & Some minor components
1 year - All other minor components
Not transferrable to subsequent owners
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Boy, I'd get a 2007.
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Ivie, the color combo on the floor model is the cedar durawood cabinet and blue granite shell. It also has the rubber/plastic housing around the jets -- no chrome/stainless.
When I talked to Marquis Corporate Customer Service yesterday, they talked about the 7 year no-leak warranty going down to 5, but mentioned structure going from 7 to 10. They also mentioned that a lot of the minor components (they mentioned lights, filter, filter covers and I can't remember whatever else -- maybe stereo stuff) were only warranted to be in working condition upon delivery -- with no further warranty.
My dealer only says not to worry -- that he'll take care of me.
Decisions, decisions, decisions......
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The non-transferable thing isn't great though. If you ever wanted to sell for any reason, that makes a big difference. But, I don't blame you, I wouldn't go for that combo either. Why don't you ask him to find out from the factory what 2007s are left and available for shipping. It might be worth it if there is one that maybe is your second color choice.
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Having a transferable warranty is nice, but no other major spa manufacturer in the industry offers one. In order to raise the warranty for all of the Marquis product lines, some things had to be taken away. If you compare the 2008 Marquis warranty it is almost identical to Sundance and HotSpring, with slightly longer coverage on a few items.
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In 2008 all of the Marquis product lines (Marquis Spas, Everyday Hot Tubs, Hideaway Hot Tubs, Limited Series) were merged in to one line. Most of the spas had a 5/5/3 warranty in 2007 and it was confusing to the salesperson/customer. In 2008 all 12 models have the same warranty. This should clear up the confusion:
2007 Epic Warranty:
7 years - Structure
7 years - Shell Surface
7 years - Plumbing
5 years - Major Components
3 years - Minor Components (ozonator, fuses, light bulbs, diverter valves, jet faces)
Transferrable to subsequent owners
2008 Epic Warranty:
10 years - Structure
7 years - Shell Surface
5 years - Plumbing
5 years - Major Components
2 years - Ozonator & Some minor components
1 year - All other minor components
Not transferrable to subsequent owners
Ouch, that's too bad about the new 2008 non-transferable warranty program. That's an area that was was head and shoulders above the competition--at least from the consumers perspective. I guess most good things in life don't last forever. Thanks for sharing.
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Have you made your purchase yet ParrotHead?
TS in MI
PS our estimated plunge date is still 12-15....
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TS,
No, we haven't. The problem I'm having is people who will be doing the prep work (reinforcing my deck and running electric) owe me favors, so you know how that goes -- I get put at the bottom of the list, after the new customers who they're making fresh money off of. The electrician is family, but the carpenter isn't. I had a chat with my Marquis guy yesterday. He's placing a new order tomorrow afternoon. I think I'll fax an invoice to the carpenter first thing in the morning and see if that lights a fire under his butt. If not, weather-wise I may have to wait until spring. :'(
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Wouldn't you know it, my Marquis Epic is not here yet (expected delivery 12-15-07)...and we got 12" of snow the last 24 hours. The perfect time to be tubbing, and I'm just shoveling the snow to make sure there is still a nice clear spot for it when it gets here. It's supposedly been built (in Oregon) and to be shipped tomorrow, which should have it getting here to mid-Michigan by Thur/Fri/Sat, and still in time for Christmas! We'll see...
Happy Holidays everyone!
Tbills
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tbills, make sure you take some pics for us when it gets in. I'm dying to see it.
It looks like I'll be waiting until spring to order a tub. Talked to the carpenter and the electrician and neither wants to do the work in this weather. Also, my surgeon doesn't want to write me a Rx now for the tub, even though I'm only asking for one for tax reason -- my health insurance won't cover it anyway. I think I'll make an appointment with my family doctor and see if I can twist his arm. 8-)
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tbills, make sure you take some pics for us when it gets in. I'm dying to see it.
It looks like I'll be waiting until spring to order a tub. Talked to the carpenter and the electrician and neither wants to do the work in this weather. Also, my surgeon doesn't want to write me a Rx now for the tub, even though I'm only asking for one for tax reason -- my health insurance won't cover it anyway. I think I'll make an appointment with my family doctor and see if I can twist his arm. 8-)
My doctor told me that as well. He was willing to give me drugs for muscle and back pain, but not give an Rx for the hot tub. This doesn't make sense to me, since the spa works better at removing the back pain, without the side effects of drugs. He also did not believe it would make much of a difference tax wise. Is anyone here able to use their spa as a tax deduction if they have chronic back problems?
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My accountant said I can write it off as a medical expense, as long as I have a rx for it. I'm not worried. I know enough doctors. And I've got a pretty full liquor cabinet and humidor! 8-)
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In Florida, if you have an rx, you don't have to pay sales tax either, I know this is true in other states as well.
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I don't think that's true in IL (sales tax), unfortunately. Who cares?!?!?! I jut wanna' soak -- and soon!!!! ;D
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Well, we just spent the last 2 hours or so getting the tube from the truck through the backyard up 3 steps through the rails on its side and down onto the deck! 800 pounds was more than we figured to maneuver around, but FINALLY it is in place and filling as I write this message. It should be full and reasonably hot by the end of the Spartans Champs bowl victory! I'll take a few pictures. The delivery was very delayed by weather along the way for the truck driver from Oregon via Wisconsin and Illinois before it got here, and then today we had 3" of snow fall during delivery and set-up....oh well, at least it is here and almost plunge time!
TS
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Can't wait to see the pics, TS!
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What's the easiest way to send pictures?
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go to photobucket
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I'd be careful about the r/x and tax deduction. It looks good on paper. My wife has a doctor's r/x for a hot tub also. I asked a cpa friend who does tax prep. She said people who qualify for the med deduction are rare because of the amount necessary to reach the level where a deduction could actually result in a tax reduction. Because of this a med deduction large enough to make a difference almost always raises a red flag and the return is reviewed and very possibly audited. Once a return has been audited, the SS # will be tagged and audits are very likely for years to come. Due to her advice, I am not claiming this deduction because I don't want to be harrassed by the IRS. It might at least be worth a call to an accountant to verify this view.
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FYI, my accountant says "No problem"
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I'd be careful about the r/x and tax deduction. It looks good on paper. My wife has a doctor's r/x for a hot tub also. I asked a cpa friend who does tax prep. She said people who qualify for the med deduction are rare because of the amount necessary to reach the level where a deduction could actually result in a tax reduction. Because of this a med deduction large enough to make a difference almost always raises a red flag and the return is reviewed and very possibly audited. Once a return has been audited, the SS # will be tagged and audits are very likely for years to come. Due to her advice, I am not claiming this deduction because I don't want to be harrassed by the IRS. It might at least be worth a call to an accountant to verify this view.
:-/This is the same thing I was told by my doctor and my CPA. I have the Rx, but have not decided if I should use it. Has anyone used a spa as a tax deduction and been or not been audited by the IRS?
Chancelund
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Chancelund, I know a few people that deducted it. As long as you have the medical records and prescription to back it up, it shouldn't be a problem. The few I know that did it didn't get audited. My accountant said it's not a problem either. Let's face it. We're talking about $10,000 or less, typically. There are a lot bigger red flags out there to stir up an audit.
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Chancelund, I know a few people that deducted it. As long as you have the medical records and prescription to back it up, it shouldn't be a problem. The few I know that did it didn't get audited. My accountant said it's not a problem either. Let's face it. We're talking about $10,000 or less, typically. There are a lot bigger red flags out there to stir up an audit.
:-/ I see your point. I have decided to wait until spring to put the spa in so I have a bit of time to think about it.
Thanks,
Chancelund
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I've heard from a couple of different sources, that as long as there's not a HUGE red flag, that people who make less than 100K don't need to worry about getting audited.
It's just not worth their time from what I understand.
Real life example- Someone I know is self employed and has been for the past 8 years. His 5th year in business was a record breaker. He jumped from 85K-110K in one year. So obviously his total deductions increased quite significantly from the previous year. Guess what? he got audited. Long story short, he now 1099's his 10 year old neighbor who cuts his grass. ;D
It's just funny because he actually had made bigger jumps in salary before but not until he made over 100K did they come a knocking.
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I keep trying to copy and paste some photos of th enew tub, but it won't let me do ti....?
And when I try the "Insert image" icon it just puts "(http://) " that crap in...?
In the Post Reply message area there isn't ant other attach file option that I can find?
Any ideas?
TS
PS We have really been enjoying the new Epic! Had it up to 104 degrees for yesterday, but found that to be too hot...got the heart beating a little quickly, so it's back down to 103 today. We installed a new Bose sound system, and mounted 2 outdoor Klipsch speakers right out on the deck by the tub! Sounds great, and that plus the Constellation lighting, snow (melting today), and the jets beating in all the right places make for a great setting! So far so good!
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tbillMI:
You need to upload your photos to a free hosting site. Here is the one I use:
http://imageshack.us/
When you upload your photo, it will give you a bunch of different HTML codes you can copy. Scroll down and copy the code next to "Hotlink for Forums" and paste it into a reply and it should work.
Make sure to get a picture of the constellation lighting at night!!!
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Yeah, as Epic is at the top of our list, I'd love to see it too!
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Yeah, as Epic is at the top of our list, I'd love to see it too!
What did you finally get... Epic?
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Well, I know this post has been going on forever. The bad news is my Marquis dealer sent a contractor friend of his out to my house to look at my deck. He says he doesn't recommend reinforcing it. He recommends we pour a concrete pad next to the deck. I can do that, but now I have to get 5 evergreen trees -- about 8 feet tall each -- moved to do so. And he also told me that he would need to trench the electric, which he can't do until it warms up. So, I probably won't be getting a tub for 6-8 more weeks. The good news is the dealer now has a 2008 in stock in the color combo we like. So, he and I are going to talk price today. I'll probably lock it in and put some money down to hold it. This week, I'll be calling landscapers to see what it's going to cost me to move those trees. What a project! :(
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We've really been enjoying the new tub! The snow has been a pain in the butt shoveling off but it's been pretty cool sitting out there enjoying it!
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5147zx1.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=123007001vr0.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5144be3.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=123007005io5.jpg
I think I finally figured out how to upoad pictures for you!
Tom
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You need to click on the forum code for your pics when using Image shack.
I'll save you the trouble
Here Are tbills, Pics
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/6828/img5147zx1.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5147zx1.jpg)
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/3120/123007001vr0.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=123007001vr0.jpg)
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9317/img5144be3.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img5144be3.jpg)
(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/183/123007005io5.th.jpg) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=123007005io5.jpg)
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The same thing happened to me. One person said the deck just needed to be supported. The others said I needed to pour a foundation. I think some dealers just tell you what you hope to hear.
>:(
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By the way, tbilss, tub looks awesome! And I like the acid trip lighting picture! :P
Well, Chancelund, they definitely didn't tell me what I wanted to hear, but if I go that route, I'll still have a huge deck for parties, and a nice little backyard oasis with privacy -- the trees I'm going to move will be the backdrop. So, a little more delay, but I'm getting excited.
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Tbills -
Nice lookin' tub. Enjoy it!