Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: coldinMA on January 27, 2008, 09:53:40 pm
-
So today we were at the Boston Home show, specifically looking to shop for hottubs. Admittedly the only hottub we had looked at before today was Sundance Marin. There was a pretty reputable business there, and they sold Artesian, Vita, and Down East (aka Master Spas). We were impressed with the MS salesman(he was specifically a MS salesman and did not work for the store), and put a deposit on the MS Portsmouth...we specifically like the shoulder jets, and hip jets, that was what sold us, and admittedly we haven't looked at other models to see if these are options...of course the salesman said they were the only company that sold the shoulder jets (he called them rotator cuff jets). It was $7295 + tax, and he threw in the cover and lift, stairs, upgrade to a fourth pump and full foam icynene sprayed underneath. So now I read alot of badness about MS sales practices on this forum and I'm wondering if we've been had...we have 72 hours to cancel the order....should we. We honestly liked the spa, we're going to wet test it Tues., and the business that sells the spa seems reputable. Are people unhappy with the MS spas themselves, or the salesman?
Thanks!
-
Is the dealer you purchased from a local established dealer, that's been carrying this brand for a while?
-
The foolish thing was the "impulse" buy. Many other spas offer neck jets. You should wet test that one and others before making your final decision. If they are a reputable dealer, they will give you the same deal if you go back to them in a week or two and say you decided that that was the one you liked best after testing others.
Wet testing is so, so important! Those neck jets may hit you wrong for instance. I tried 2 brands with neck jets (something I really wanted) and all they did was splash me all over my face! The Caldera I purchased didn't splash like the other 2 did (D-1 and Vita). Dynasty had great neck jets, but I found the rest of the jets to be very weak. Other people have had totally different experiences. My husband got in a Sundance Optima and found it so uncomfortable he couldn't wait to get out, and most people love that spa! I didn't like the moto-massage in the Hot Springs. I originally wanted a lounge but after wet testing changed my tune.
My advice would be to wet test that spa, research the dealer, and test at least one or two others for comparison! You don't want to always wonder "are we fools" every time you get in your spa.
-
Was the name of the company Crocker Sales? If so, according to their website they only carry Artesian, Vita, and Reflections. They do not mention Master spas. This could be another scam by the traveling circus of Master spas. They use a reputable dealer's name to get the sale, where in reality they have no affiliation with them at all. Terminator knows all about this scam first hand. I'd proceed with caution......
http://www.crocker-sales.com/showroom.html#spas
Btw, I think the closest master spa dealer to you is in Hartford, CT(100 miles away). Atleast that's what google told me.....
-
First of all, he out and out lied to you. He told you they were the only spa with shoulder jets. Many brands have jets that will take care of your shoulders. That would make me hesitate to deal with him.
I'd cancel the order now, then do your shopping. Go to the local dealership that carries the spas. Check them out and wet test the spa. Then go see some other dealers and test their spas.
After you do all that, make the decision which spa is the best for you. If it is Master, so be it. But don't buy a spa on an impulse. Bad decision.
-
Btw, I think the closest master spa dealer to you is in Hartford, CT(100 miles away). Atleast that's what google told me.....[/quote]
This is where they load up there trucks to go to shows. They do have tubs there(or they did six months ago).There are alot of spas with the neck jets, they do splash you. caldera has a cover over theres,look at there video it will show you.
-
Was the name of the company Crocker Sales? If so, according to their website they only carry Artesian, Vita, and Reflections. They do not mention Master spas. This could be another scam by the traveling circus of Master spas. They use a reputable dealer's name to get the sale, where in reality they have no affiliation with them at all. Terminator knows all about this scam first hand. I'd proceed with caution......
http://www.crocker-sales.com/showroom.html#spas
Btw, I think the closest master spa dealer to you is in Hartford, CT(100 miles away). Atleast that's what google told me.....
I hope I did this right, I was trying to quote you...
It was Crocker Sales, and we thought the same thing, and saw the same thing on their website, but it was a Crocker Sales booth at the home show, not a MS booth, and the owner Hal was there at the show (we were introduced to him but didn't speak with him). The hot tub was sold under the name "Down East Spas", and if you go to thier web site and locate a dealer, Crocker is the only one that comes up. The "shoulder" jets on the particular model we liked are above the water line and shoot water down from above onto your shoulders, not neck jets at the side...he said they were the only brand that had those specific jets...I haven't seen them on others so I'm just asking if anyone else has jets like this....we really like them. We did dry test them, and are going to wet test it and an artesian model tomorrow...I'm still going to call the show room and ask why MS/Down East isn't advertised on their website...
Thanks for your quick and honest replies!
-
First of all, he out and out lied to you. He told you they were the only spa with shoulder jets. Many brands have jets that will take care of your shoulders. That would make me hesitate to deal with him.
I'd cancel the order now, then do your shopping. Go to the local dealership that carries the spas. Check them out and wet test the spa. Then go see some other dealers and test their spas.
After you do all that, make the decision which spa is the best for you. If it is Master, so be it. But don't buy a spa on an impulse. Bad decision.
Not neccesarily. He made has said they were the only one with the "rotator cuff" jerts. In my travels, MS is the only one wiht pulsating jets at the shoulder. I never wet tested it, but they were the only ones with anything like it.
-
I hope I did this right, I was trying to quote you...
It was Crocker Sales, and we thought the same thing, and saw the same thing on their website, but it was a Crocker Sales booth at the home show, not a MS booth, and the owner Hal was there at the show (we were introduced to him but didn't speak with him). The hot tub was sold under the name "Down East Spas", and if you go to thier web site and locate a dealer, Crocker is the only one that comes up. The "shoulder" jets on the particular model we liked are above the water line and shoot water down from above onto your shoulders, not neck jets at the side...he said they were the only brand that had those specific jets...I haven't seen them on others so I'm just asking if anyone else has jets like this....we really like them. We did dry test them, and are going to wet test it and an artesian model tomorrow...I'm still going to call the show room and ask why MS/Down East isn't advertised on their website...
Thanks for your quick and honest replies!
If Crocker Sales really is affiliated with the tub your interested in(no matter the brand), it looks like you'll be backed by a very reputable dealer. They've been in business for quite sometime now and have only had 4 claims against them in the past 36 months.
http://reports.bosbbb.org/Boston/Public/Reports/BrandedReport.aspx?firm=3228
It sounds like they're a fairly large company as well. Specializing in all sorts of things.
''They offer energy efficient windows and doors, build decks and sunrooms, install all types of porch enclosures and sell and install swimming pools, spas and supplies.''
-
I have a Caldera. My neck jets are adjustable, and really shoot down onto the tops of my shoulders where they attach to my neck, but I can move them more towards my neck, or out more to my shoulders. They are above the water.
-
It does seem that you'll have a local dealer at least and that’s helpful but I would definitely wet test that before the right to cancel date is up. Neck/shoulder jets are certainly not unique to them and you really want to make sure they work for you. There have been many people who can tell you that they were sure of the spa they wanted until they wet tested and found that what looked good dry was not for them. That’s not a knock on any spa in particular, it ahppens with all models, you just can't tell until you wet test them. With their legendary sales practices and the less than stellar reports I’ve seen from owners about energy consumption and quality I'm not a Master fan but start with the wet test.
-
Here's an update. My husband called Crocker Sales to ask about Master Spas, Hal (the owner) said they do indeed carry and service Down East/MS, it's not on their website yet because they just started carrying them. He offered to honor our "show special" price for the next two weekends so we could get in there and wet test. They also sell Artesian, Vita, and Reflections spas and he would have comparable models of each filled for us, and that he would match the discount to the other brands if we decided we didn't like the Master Spas, and if we didn't like any of them we could still walk away. This should also give us time to visit and test Caldera, LA Spas, and Arctic which are also in our area.
-
Here's an update. My husband called Crocker Sales to ask about Master Spas, Hal (the owner) said they do indeed carry and service Down East/MS, it's not on their website yet because they just started carrying them. He offered to honor our "show special" price for the next two weekends so we could get in there and wet test. They also sell Artesian, Vita, and Reflections spas and he would have comparable models of each filled for us, and that he would match the discount to the other brands if we decided we didn't like the Master Spas, and if we didn't like any of them we could still walk away. This should also give us time to visit and test Caldera, LA Spas, and Arctic which are also in our area.
Have never seen or tested a Master Spa and can make no comment on them personally. But this would appear to say a lot to me about the quality of the dealer (I live in Atlanta and know nothing about this dealer. I do have and like my Reflections spa though!) and if it were me, unless I found another tub I just can't live without, I would probably give thought to buying a tub from this guy, even if you end up with a different brand than the Masters Spa. Seems like he is doing business the right way.
I have liked what I have read and heard from others about Artesian but have never seen one myself and don't know if they have shoulder jets that would work for you. Reasonably familiar with Vita and Reflections and happy with my own spa. Mine has neck jets but no downward facing shoulder jets.
I can tell you that any jet that is above the water line tends to splash a lot at high pressure and at 5'12" the spas I did test with shoulder jets tended not to fit me well. So you definitely need to wet test.
-
Would'nt 5'12" be the same as 6' ::) ;)
-
Down East is Master's "lower-end" of their products. It compares to Tiger River or the 3-series Jacuzzi's (as far as features). I personally did not like th e"Plasticly" look of the Down East product line a couple of years back compared to other available products but maybe they have gotten better since then. As as lower-end line the price should be aggressive. Lower-end does NOT mean lower quality. Many lower end products are VERY good values. But, it it was me I would call the dealer and thank him for his honoring the sale price. I would also review both the Tiger River and Jacuzzi 3-series products to see how the Down East stacks up with those alternatives. If you still like it and the price, it sounds like you have a solid dealer there and that is FAR more important than anything else in my opinion.
-
Are these the shoulder jets your Master Spas salesman said were exlcusive?
(http://www.masterspas.com/pages/Relax/hydrotherapy/neck_jet.jpg)
My LA Spas HEET has shoulder and neck jets that look almost identical. They call it the "Therapy Collar".
(http://www.laspas.com/images/qts_8.jpg)
One of the Caldera Spas had a similar feature. I didn't wet test this one, but I did see it running.
(http://www.calderaspas.com/Why_Hot_Tub_Caldera_Spas/jpgs/comfort3_step2b.jpg)
I tested a Phoenix Spas tub that offered the "Omni" neck and shoulder system. It looked similar to the pictures above, but for some reason it splashed my face more than it hit my back.
The tub I bought (the HEET) actually offered two of these seats as an option, but I only got one...in the deepest seat in the tub. I'm 6'4" and if I put one of those neck systems in a more shallow seat, I wouldn't have been able to use it at all. They had a model in the showroom with two of these collars installed....and while it looked cool to have two of those seats, a wet test proved that only one would have been functional for me (or for my wife who is 5'11".) The other one was so short I couldn't sit in it without sticking my feet all the way across the tub.
I wasn't about to buy a tub with seats that wouldn't fit either of us.
Wet test....and only put in your order after you have. Ignore all the hype, wet testing is the only way to find out what you really like.
-
I think the more correct "generic" term for the style of shoulder jets used in the Master-Spa products is "overmolded". I belive it requires a somewhat more complex mold for the construction of the shell. Several manufacturers are now offering a similar , if not identical style of collar. I have a Down-East Spa with two seats with these jets and my wife and I enjoy them a lot. Neither of us is very tall, but I do have a long torso and I agree a test sit is required to figure out if these seats fit well. Short torso'ed people may need a booster seat to get good therapy. I did find that I am happier with the shoulder jets since I swapped non-rotating adjustable jets into those spots and moved the messagers to areas of my back. The adjustable non rotating jets make it easier to direct the stream more inboard and generally splash less and make less noise. I keep the neck and shoulder jets in these seats turned off when I'm not using them to minimize the noise and splashing. Down East is actually the middle of the 3 lines that Master-Spas sells. The biggest difference I could see was fewer filter cartridges and no "leaf screen" over the top of the filters.
Other manufacturers with "overmolded" shoulder collars include Phoenix as mentioned above and Haven who's spas are made by Phoenix to his specs. I've seen others, but I don't recall their names right now.
Wow, Master-Spas and Haven in my 1st post. So much for keeping the controversy to a minimum. :) I'm afraid I'll burst into flames :O
Chris W
-
Would'nt 5'12" be the same as 6' ::) ;)
Why yes, yes it would!
(http://bestsmileys.com/big/1.gif)
-
Which down east do you have? We're considering the Portsmouth... and do you have the steel or wood frame that they offer. When we were at the show, they had the steel frame on display, and their foaming left a LOT to be desired. From what I could see, they build the tub, install all tubing etc., then spray the foam wherever it'll hit, I stuck my hand deep into the tub, to the side of the seat with the hip jets and there was NO foam on most of that side, he explained that the foam wouldn't reach all areas but they would offer to 'full foam' the tub if I would like for no extra cost. if you have the steel frame, how's the noise level? What about your electric bill, do you know how much/month it's using? he mentioned $50/month in winter (@102F), $20/month in summer for the 485 gallons - our electric rates are high here, about 12-13 cents/kwh...
-
If he's an Artesian dealer check out the Island series Antiqua and Captiva those and the Bahama and Caymen all offer great neck/shoulder jet spas in different sizes and number of jets available.
-
We have the Windsor SE (3 jet pumps, 1 circ pump, 2 master blasters and NO diverter valves :)) since we didn't really want a lounger. Our has the "hybrid" wood/steel frame which is standard on the DownEast Line I believe. As far as I can tell, the only steel is in the corners, but I haven't disected it too much. The foam on mine covers everything I can see to a depth of about 2-3 inches. About 1/2" of coverage on most of the plumbing. I don't have a real good basis for comparison on the noise, but my friend says it's way quiter than his older Coleman. It's certainly not excessively loud. You can carry on a conversation even with all of the air valves wide open and all of the pumps running. Electric usage is tough to quantify because we are still in the honeymoon phase of spa ownership and we run it a lot. I'd guess I'm paying about $40-$45/month at 7-8 cents per kwh with daytime highs in the low-mid 60s and nighttime lows in the low 40s I keep the tub in std mode, 104, open about 2 hours/day with jets running most of that time. I expect it will cost less as we settle into a stable pattern.
Which down east do you have? We're considering the Portsmouth... and do you have the steel or wood frame that they offer. When we were at the show, they had the steel frame on display, and their foaming left a LOT to be desired. From what I could see, they build the tub, install all tubing etc., then spray the foam wherever it'll hit, I stuck my hand deep into the tub, to the side of the seat with the hip jets and there was NO foam on most of that side, he explained that the foam wouldn't reach all areas but they would offer to 'full foam' the tub if I would like for no extra cost. if you have the steel frame, how's the noise level? What about your electric bill, do you know how much/month it's using? he mentioned $50/month in winter (@102F), $20/month in summer for the 485 gallons - our electric rates are high here, about 12-13 cents/kwh...
-
If he's an Artesian dealer check out the Island series Antiqua and Captiva those and the Bahama and Caymen all offer great neck/shoulder jet spas in different sizes and number of jets available.
I second that. We have the Captiva and love the neck jets. It was one of the reasons we went with the spa.
-
Ok, so Saturday we're wet testing a Down East Spa (Cape Cod), Master Spa LSX850, Reflections Spa Malaga, Artesian Grand Bahama, and a couple of Arctic Spas, we may be able to test Hot Springs and Sundance on that same day too. I have to say Hal at Crocker Sales has been awesome, and if we do end up with a Master Spas, I feel comfortable buying from him. Thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom, we'll let you know the outcome!
-
Ok, so Saturday we're wet testing a Down East Spa (Cape Cod), Master Spa LSX850, Reflections Spa Malaga, Artesian Grand Bahama, and a couple of Arctic Spas, we may be able to test Hot Springs and Sundance on that same day too. I have to say Hal at Crocker Sales has been awesome, and if we do end up with a Master Spas, I feel comfortable buying from him. Thanks to everyone for your words of wisdom, we'll let you know the outcome!
Glad to to hear that you are wet testing all those quality spas, including the Arctic spa. I am a Arctic Spa dealer, so feel free to repsond or pm me with any questions you might have. What spas are you wet testing in the Arctic Line.
-
Glad to to hear that you are wet testing all those quality spas, including the Arctic spa. I am a Arctic Spa dealer, so feel free to repsond or pm me with any questions you might have. What spas are you wet testing in the Arctic Line.
Well that depends, I think Arctic Spas will actually be a little out of our price range, we're looking to spend around $8000 for a 4 person with a lounge. We like the looks of Avalanche and Klondiker, but I'm assuming they'll be too much, so we're probably going to test a 7 ft...any insight on what we would expect for price would be helpful.
-
Well that depends, I think Arctic Spas will actually be a little out of our price range, we're looking to spend around $8000 for a 4 person with a lounge. We like the looks of Avalanche and Klondiker, but I'm assuming they'll be too much, so we're probably going to test a 7 ft...any insight on what we would expect for price would be helpful.
Well pricing can vary based on overhead, location, etc. I am in the midwest, and I am sure spas sell for less here than they do where you are located. I will say this though, you should be able to get a quality 4 person Arctic in your price range!
-
Well that depends, I think Arctic Spas will actually be a little out of our price range, we're looking to spend around $8000 for a 4 person with a lounge. We like the looks of Avalanche and Klondiker, but I'm assuming they'll be too much, so we're probably going to test a 7 ft...any insight on what we would expect for price would be helpful.
Back in December, I tested the Klondiker, which was listed at over 10k in the showroom here in Seattle. It was one of the first places I went, but in the end....it was one of the worst tubs I tested. I told the lady I wasn't interested, but a few days later I got a call saying they had found the same tub somewhere for 4K less.
That was my first clue that like cars and mattresses, there is a lot of wiggle room in the price, and your best deal is going to come when you have a couple of choices you'd be really happy with.
Find the one you like, then find a 2nd and 3rd. Get them all competing against each other and then pick the one you like the best that's priced closest to your budget.
-
Not all spa dealers work that way. Im not goona lower my price, just cause you bring me 2 or 3 or 10 quotes. At this point, im gonna go over details about my spas again. Most of my customers respect me for being honest and upfront with them. When i look a customer in the eyes and say thats my final price, thats it...... Im not haggling around and wasting our times.
There is haggling in price, but i will never call a customer and offer 4k cheaper on a same spa model.
-
coldinMA,
I installed an MS LSX 3.5 years ago and absolutely love it. If I were to buy another tub, I would certainly entertain another MS purchase. This review I wrote when I first installed the tub (LSX Review (http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi?view=product&pid=235&rid=368&pg=8&sort=name&search=)) still holds true to me today.
BTW, I estimate my power usage here in North Florida to be about $30-$40/month.
Don't hesitate to ask if you'd like any other information re: my MS experience... 8-)
-
coldinMA,
I installed an MS LSX 3.5 years ago and absolutely love it. If I were to buy another tub, I would certainly entertain another MS purchase. This review I wrote when I first installed the tub (LSX Review (http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/reviews.cgi?view=product&pid=235&rid=368&pg=8&sort=name&search=)) still holds true to me today.
BTW, I estimate my power usage here in North Florida to be about $30-$40/month.
Don't hesitate to ask if you'd like any other information re: my MS experience... 8-)
Thanks for that great review, my husband and I are both runners and are looking for a tub that really gives a good massage, sounds like you get that from yours...unfortuately I think MS higher end models are a little out of our price range...we're wet testing one because that's what they have to fill for us, and the salesman said we will get a similar feel for the Down East Spa, which is more in our price range...my husband is hopeful that he'll love the hip jets, particularily he hopes he can get a hamstring massage, and I'm longing for the shoulder ones...
-
Not all spa dealers work that way. Im not goona lower my price, just cause you bring me 2 or 3 or 10 quotes. At this point, im gonna go over details about my spas again. Most of my customers respect me for being honest and upfront with them. When i look a customer in the eyes and say thats my final price, thats it...... Im not haggling around and wasting our times.
There is haggling in price, but i will never call a customer and offer 4k cheaper on a same spa model.
You make a good point. There are some dealers that may actually offer their best price right there in the showroom, the first time you see them. I never ran across one, but I'm sure they exist somewhere. If it's not low enough for the buyer...that buyer has to be willing to walk away. That's why I think it's good to find your top 3 tubs, and then be willing not to buy number one if it's not within your budget.
My personal experience was that just about every dealer was eventually able to work within my budget. In the market I'm in, there are dozens of competitors, and I didn't come across even one that offered their "Final" prices the first time I visited them. Unless you count Costco or Home Depot (which I didn't).
They all had huge sticker prices (with their best tubs costing anywhere from 12-14k) and they all came down thousands of dollars on those prices. Some called these new prices they were offering me "specials" or "deals"....but obviously, that's all just a scam they use to make people think they're getting some sort of discount. I can't imagine anyone actually paying those initial sticker prices....but if they do, they're clearly an idiot with too much money to burn.
Every dealer I visited had better offers for me than the sticker prices on the tub, and when it came down to my top 3, I was able to get even lower than those "better offers". I did that by telling them that I was shopping around, and then by leaving.
Eventually...I got my number one tub, but only because the dealer was willing to take the price down to the same level as some other offers I was getting. If he hadn't, I would have bought number two.
It should be noted that I got calls from several of the ones I didn't pick offering me even better deals than their "final" prices....even after I had already purchased my tub. Some of the discounts they offered me were pretty amazing, which left me wondering if I could have gotten my number one tub even cheaper.
-
I'm mighty proud to say that in 9 years of spa peddlin', I have yet to call a customer back and offer them a lower price. It smacks of chicanery when a dealer does that, in my opinion.
There's been several occasions over the years that people have shopped here, went and bought a spa otherwheres, and then came back and said "I bought the other spa 'cause it was cheaper. That didn't work out so good, so now I'm back to buy the spa I should've got in the first place." Happened just a couple of weeks ago with a fella. That is one of the advantages of being an established dealer who is here for the long haul as opposed to the fly-by-night operations prevalent in our neighborhood.
Anyways, I'm off to the Home Show!
Terminator
-
I'm mighty proud to say that in 9 years of spa peddlin', I have yet to call a customer back and offer them a lower price. It smacks of chicanery when a dealer does that, in my opinion.
I agree. If dealers would just offer up their best price the first time, you wouldn't have to go through the entire ritual of asking for a better deal, then leaving...etc, etc. I realize I'm in a very competitive market where I live....but I didn't particularly enjoy having to go back and forth to get everyone's "best deal". I could have had my tub a week sooner without all that negotiating.
In the end, I had 3 tubs I would have been perfectly happy buying (all of them were brands no one here had anything negative to say about)....and I let price be a big factor (but not the most important one).
The spa I finally bought wasn't the cheapest, but they did finally bring it down to a few hundred dollars in difference between another tub I was looking at, and that was enough for me to get my number one pick. It was also a pretty good discount off the original sticker price, even after I added a bunch of options.
I think the sticker prices are for people who don't want to do any research, or for people with only one spa dealership in town.
-
I agree. If dealers would just offer up their best price the first time, you wouldn't have to go through the entire ritual of asking for a better deal, then leaving...etc, etc. I realize I'm in a very competitive market where I live....but I didn't particularly enjoy having to go back and forth to get everyone's "best deal". I could have had my tub a week sooner without all that negotiating.
I agree and its all sounds great BUT when you really do offer one competitive price for all and expect to hold firm you WILL still see what has been mentioned here the past few weeks where people say they go in and are given a price and are shocked that the dealer won't budge off it. We try to explain that MAYBE its because this dealer offers one low, competitive price from the get go and sticks to it but some people will not accept it is real because they MUST be able to haggle to feel they have made out better and its that kind of thinking that makes dealers want to leave a little leverage.
That's why some use a hybrid method and come up with a price where they're thinking "if I get this average from everyone it'll be fair for them and work for me", say $9000. Then they offer it for $9200. After talking about the spa and going over how it works from them they make the final "the best we can do is $9000 but that's our bottom line. We price them competitively for all...". That's kind of what I'm used to seeing with one dealer and it works well where he'll set a real price and expect the salesperson to convey that it is a real/competitive price but still let the salesperson drop maybe $200 or give $300 in store credit for the hagglers but that is it.
-
Josh,
I cannot remember what you bought. I know a couple of dealers in Seattle and you are not describing the way they do business. :o
-
Josh,
I cannot remember what you bought. I know a couple of dealers in Seattle and you are not describing the way they do business. :o
Not sure who you know, but my comments are based on a few specific examples of some of the dealers I visited back in November and December of 2007:
Not sure how much detail you're interested in, but I experienced this "process" in one form or another at Arctic, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Sundance and even the place I eventually bought my tub (LA Spas).
I also visited several other places where I didn't get into price for one reason or another....and a couple of places where negotiation did not seem like it was going to be an option.
I kept really excellent notes during the search and can let you know details about any of those if you're interested in them.
-
Buyers can leverage the information on this forum to make a determination if a dealer "may" be willing to move off their initial price. A good example is when I was shopping for my tub. I REALLY LIKED the Sun Dance Cameo and had pretty much planned on buying one from a local dealer. But FIRST, I checked out what others were paying around the cuontry to get an idea of what a viable price point might be and learned that about 50% of the buyers were getting them just under $7K and another 50% were paying over $7K. The ones under were like $6,900 and $6,800 whereas the ones over were anywhere from $8,500 to $9,500 for the EXACT SAME tub. So that told me that the bottom (at that time 5 years ago) was around the $7K mark.
I went into the local dealership and looked at their tub. "green"/newbee sales guy says $9K, when can we set it up for delivery? I say $7K and can you have it to my house by the weekend. He replied, sure, you can have this floor unit for $8,800... I said thanks but I have a pretty good idea of the market for these things and I already KNOW your making a solid profit at the $7K I am willing to spend. I told him that if he was willing to reduce his price to "give me a call. He called back later asking me to come in so that we could work out the deal. I went in expecting to get a "reasonable" counter offer and to do a wet test. At the end he said "so, can we deliver this to you this weekend for the $8,800 we talked about?" I look at him like he has three heads and ask him, "You mean the $7,000 WE talked about?" He says..."My boss won't let me drop it below $8,800". I ask "Then why am I here?" to which he replies... "We just thought that if we got you to test it you would change your mind..." Do'ah, I guess it MUST have worked with a prior mark? Who knows. Pissed off I went about 3 blocks down and bought the equivalent Jacuzzi model sight unseen for $6,500 including Stereo (which the Cameo did not have). OF COURSE, the Sun Dance shops owner called me back the next day to "see what he could do" to which I replied, "You had more than you chance and your poor sales tactics have driven me to place a deposit on the equivalent Jacuzzi." His reply? He said that "If you will cancel your order for the Jacuzzi I will give you this floor model for $7,200... WHAT THE F.....? Of course, I said "go to heaven" and hung up. If they had just done that to BEGIN with we would have all been happy and they would have gotten $700 more out of me than I spent in the Jacuzzi but some dealers are simply "Scummy". Of course, they are no longer in business here in Charlotte. I wonder why?
So, the bottom line is that you can use this forum to get an idea of what a "reasonable" price might be for any particular tub. The dealers on here won't always tell you their best price (this IS the internet afterall) but the buyers WILL tell you what they got theirs for. Don't try to get the "best price" of anyone else. Just try to get the dealer to be "competitive. Usually within $500 of the lowest prices is achievable in most markets. Some places (like New York and California) where a mixed drink is $9.00, will also have significantly higher prices on their tubs. Other places, like smaller towns may also have higher prices (less competition).
-
I'm mighty proud to say that in 9 years of spa peddlin', I have yet to call a customer back and offer them a lower price. It smacks of chicanery when a dealer does that, in my opinion.
Terminator
I agree Termy. You never want to see a customer leave the store with the "I'll be back" promise but the reality is many people aren't going to buy that first day. A good dealer/salesperson makes sure that if a customer leaves they leave with reasonable quote because if they leave with a highball quote there is a good chance they won't bother to come back or may find a more reasonable offer elsewhere. If a salesperson calls back at a later time to throw in maybe $200 store credit or something like that to entice a return I can see that but when the customer leaves they should be leaving with an offer that makes sense for both. A good dealership knows what that is and those are the ones that stick around.
-
Buyers can leverage the information on this forum to make a determination if a dealer "may" be willing to move off their initial price. ...
So, the bottom line is that you can use this forum to get an idea of what a "reasonable" price might be for any particular tub. The dealers on here won't always tell you their best price (this IS the internet afterall) but the buyers WILL tell you what they got theirs for. Don't try to get the "best price" of anyone else. Just try to get the dealer to be "competitive. Usually within $500 of the lowest prices is achievable in most markets. Some places (like New York and California) where a mixed drink is $9.00, will also have significantly higher prices on their tubs. Other places, like smaller towns may also have higher prices (less competition).
Thanks for the good post this will help me on my future negotiations... if I don't run into a fine honest dealer.