Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Chad on January 14, 2008, 06:42:36 am
-
I have one that controls my HVAC system for my home. It's one of those 5 star energy savers. I have it set to a temp 4 degrees cooler when I'm at work and also set to a temp 3 degrees cooler when I'm sleeping. I've had this PT for a couple years now and I've definetly seen a significant drop in my heating and cooling bills.
So my question is this, I have always been under the impression since I've joined this site that one should just set their spa's temp and forget it. Because maintaining a tub at 102 versus turning it down 3 or 4 degrees and then turning it back up right before usage would be a wash. Although I haven't seen any documentation on this it seems to be the consensus here. So, I obviously beleive them as some of your guys knowledge with spas is just remarkable, but seriously though why do we save money in a home but not in a spa with a programmable thermostat. :-/
Thanks,
Chad
-
You CAN save money by lowering your spa's temperature IF you keep it low enough long enough vs the time the heater runs to bring the spa temperature back up.
The trick is figuring out if it saves you any money based on your specific usage pattern.
The more often you have to bump up the temperature, the less you'll save.
It a matter of how much time the heater runs during a given period.
The less often (in accumulated minutes/hours) the heater comes on the less you'll spend on power.
For my particular use pattern, it wouldn't save enough to bother with.
YMWV.
-
You CAN save money by lowering your spa's temperature IF you keep it low enough long enough vs the time the heater runs to bring the spa temperature back up.
The trick is figuring out if it saves you any money based on your specific usage pattern.
The more often you have to bump up the temperature, the less you'll save.
It a matter of how much time the heater runs during a given period.
The less often (in accumulated minutes/hours) the heater comes on the less you'll spend on power.
For my particular use pattern, it wouldn't save enough to bother with.
YMWV.
My daily routine is a 15 minute soak in the am before work.
I guess the only way to see if it would save any money would be to do a little experimentation. I'd have to monitor how many times a day and for how long the heater kicks on when kept at 102 for 24 hours. Then do the same thing at 98. Then see how long it takes for my spa to go from 98 to 102. I'm almost certain that it wouldn't take over 45 minutes for my spa to increase 4 degrees. It's been almost a year since my last big, spa experiment. Maybe, I'll do it this weekend just for $h!ts and giggles.
I just don't see why I need to keep it so hot for the 23 hours and 45 minutes I'm not using it. It makes me think though that if it is possible to save a signifacnt amount of money doing this, why haven't any spa manufacturers equipped their spas with programmable thermostats. I'm probably just wasting my time.
-
why haven't any spa manufacturers equipped their spas with programmable thermostats.
A couple reasons.
1. I would guess the manufactures feel it would possibly add to the complications of operating and programming the spa (looking at the cost of programmable HVAC thermostats I wouldn't think it would add more than about $30 to cost of the spa, and could easily pay for itself in a year or less).
2. It REALLY is only workable for people like yourself, that use the spa, always at the same time everyday (though, some of the better HVAC t-stats have daily, and weekend cycles...adding to the complications of programming ;) ).
And yes, it would save money... otherwise they wouldn't make them for HVAC.... You might want to get a patent on this idea ASAP (though, if it is patentable, I bet there's already a patent on it)
-
1. Then they should atleast make it an available option. I mean with such nonsense things (imo) as TV's, waterfalls, and stereos, you'd think such a sensible thing as a PT to try and save money and energy(especially nowadays more than ever) would be feasable and even marketable....
2. Yeah my HVAC t-stat has weekday morning, day, and night - saturday morning, day, and night - and a sunday morning, day, and night.
3. Lol...with all your connections, wanna go 50/50?
-
There is also the issue of heating air vs. heating water and how much you can save (if any) vs. cost of tstat.
-
I have one that controls my HVAC system for my home. It's one of those 5 star energy savers. I have it set to a temp 4 degrees cooler when I'm at work and also set to a temp 3 degrees cooler when I'm sleeping. I've had this PT for a couple years now and I've definetly seen a significant drop in my heating and cooling bills.
So my question is this, I have always been under the impression since I've joined this site that one should just set their spa's temp and forget it. Because maintaining a tub at 102 versus turning it down 3 or 4 degrees and then turning it back up right before usage would be a wash. Although I haven't seen any documentation on this it seems to be the consensus here. So, I obviously beleive them as some of your guys knowledge with spas is just remarkable, but seriously though why do we save money in a home but not in a spa with a programmable thermostat. :-/
Thanks,
Chad
Holy cow, only 4º and 3º! Get that Tstat down to 10º & 5º lower - you'll save more!!!
I think you can accomplish this with the economy mode, I don't have one but if your tub has an economy mode and can program it to go on 2 hours before you soak - there you go. The only problem is the tub may cost more doing it this way.
-
I'm afraid to go any lower than 62.
-
Never mind turning it down, turn it up when you're home!
My house is at at least 71º when we are home and 65º when we sleep. I have it turn down to 60º whe we go to work.
Heck, Icicles must come out of your shower!!! ;D
To keep it tub related - does your tub have an economy mode?
-
Never mind turning it down, turn it up when you're home!
My house is at at least 71º when we are home and 65º when we sleep. I have it turn down to 60º whe we go to work.
Heck, Icicles must come out of your shower!!! ;D
To keep it tub related - does your tub have an economy mode?
Lol..
I use to keep my house at 68 when I was home(except for while I was sleeping) but my last natural gas bill was $125! I only have a 1215 sq ft home. So since January 1st, I've been keeping it at 66 and 62 when I'm not there. Luckily I live alone b/c I don't think any women would let me get by with 66. All the ladies I've ever been with like it between 70-110 and I'm not talkin my alkalinity. I'm not sure if it's a nationwide thing but here in the STL natural gas prices have been gettin pretty ridiculous the past year or so.
My J-345 does have an economy mode setting. If I'm understanding it correctly, the heater will only kick on during programmed cycles. Since I have my tub set for two 30 minute cycles, the heater would turn on twice a day. I'm really not comfortable with lowering it to just one filtration cycle a day, so I guess it wouldn't work. Plus I think it would take longer than 30 minutes for it to get back up to my set temperature as I would atleast drop it 4 degrees when not in use. Thanks for the suggestion though... :)
-
That's kind of the kink in the works- to save any significant money, you'd have to set the temperature down more than just a couple degrees.
My spa takes an hour to raise the water temperature 5 degrees- I don't want to have to plan my spa use to far in advance. But that's just me.
The way I figure it is that I spend an average of $30 per month to operate the spa, including filtering and time using it. So maybe $20 per month of that goes to heating the water whan I'm not using it. Even a 30% savings, which is probalby quite optimistic, isn't all that much money. I'll pay that much per month to have my spa ready to go when I want to use it.
I could see the turn down the water tempature save money for someone that maybe only uses their spa a time or two per week. Or if you go away for a week or two.
-
Chad, I have had my tub in economy mode for several weeks...My tub is set for 1- 1 hour filtration cycle in the morning and 1-2 hour in the late afternoon. My thought was similar to yours and since we haven't been using it, why let the tub monitor and heat it all day long? So far so good, every time I check it is at 101. The only problem is that my spa monitor will only check for temp when in a filtration cycle, so if the tub isn't filtering, I can't check the temp from the inside of the house. We have had unusually warm weather, so I may turn it back to standard once it gets really cold.
Maybe Markee, or Stuart can comment about leaving it in Economy mode in the really cold weather. I don't know if I am saving very much money, but anything is a help. :-/
I also have set back thermometers, I heat with wood, use solar for my domestic hot water, have a south facing house with lots of windows and am now all florescent!! I have been trying to save energy for 23 years! Oh and I just finally took Chas advice and replaced my old freezer with an energy star..will see if my bill goes down this month!
-
Tileman, I agree with your philosophy. Even though most people here say to Set it and Forget it, I bump mine up and down a few degrees like you suggest.
Keeping the water at 104 when you're not using it seems like it would cost more than turning it up from 100 a few minutes before you soak a few times per week. I would like to see a test conducted. Two identical spas side by side metered would be a cool test. If I were paying $.08 per Kwh I wouldn't care too much but I pay 4 times that to operate the spa....
-
If I had to pay your electric rates, I'd probably be a bit more wary of the issue- but I'm paying closer to .10/kwh.
You'll save a bit by dropping, but probably not much.
You live in a warm climate, I suspect, and if so, your savings would likely be minimal because your spa will loose heat slower.
The only way to ever know for certain is to monitor your spa's power consumption over a few months each of setting and forgetting, and dropping and raising, while keeping your usage habbits constant.
Otherwise, it's strictly speculation.
-
I'm afraid to go any lower than 62.
Why?
-
the point of my previous post was basically to say, if I am spending my money heating my tub, I try to save in other places. so I may recoup some of my energy usage by going florescent..or heating with wood. I don't really think there is a good way to save much on heating the tub. :-/
-
I'm really liking those compact flourescent light bulbs. For security, we leave our outside lights on all night. We have 2 floods, and 3 regular fixtures, all had 60 watt bulbs. And they were burning out constantly- at least one per month, somtimes several.
Now there are 5 bulbs at 17 watts each, and none of them have failed yet. Went from a total of 300 watts to 85. And have saved at least another $10 by not having to buy lightbulbs.
I also use them in the garage ceiling- it's a 10 foot ceiling, and replacing the bulbs is a real pain.
They work well in very cold temperatures, too.
-
In a few years, we will all have to comply. they will replace the incandescents...just like the HD signals in 2009! I love them too, Brewman ,and someone told me they woulnd't work in the cold, but I have no problem with them outside either.
-
Why?
I think it promotes drywall seam cracking and nail pops but I have no documentation, just word of mouth and my own home experiences.
-
Some things to think about ...
Here in NJ our service provider started a program of variable electric rates based on time of day. The middle of the night has the lowest rates followed by the late morning/ early afternoon. It would be great to take advantage of the lower rates for the tub. When I looked into this the highest rates were in the morning and until 10 PM - prime tubbing time so I didn't sign up for it.
I have hooked up a wireless thermometer in my tub and I can say that my tub doesn't loose that much heat to worry about a few hours difference. Last year when Bosco and I did the tub comparison my tub lost about 1 degree per hour - not too much. BTW Bosco's tub maintained his heat using the pumps for filtration.
A circ pump is designed to keep the tub clean and the other "filter times" are auxillary. I thought Jacuzzi had a circ pump. Are you saying that if Jacuzzi has a circ pump it can't keep the water nice? (assuming it does have one).
Chad, as far as heat/electric I am pushing $350 for this month - wanna trade? ;) ;D
-
Oh man, Vinny, What kind of heat do you have? Do you heat your hot water with electric?
-
The only water that gets heated by electric is the hot tub. I have gas heat, cooking, drying and hot water.
We typically have the house at least at 71º when we are home. We have recessed lights with 65 watt bulbs in them that seem to be on all the time. Heck all the lights seem to be on all the time! Not to mention all the electronic toys. I think it's the cost of living between Philly and NYC. It has jumped up recently with the price of oil.
Unfortunately when people get cold here they raise the heat vs putting on a sweater. Whenever I get cold I put on o sweater (I love those microfibers) and feel OK. The rest of them (3) just go to the tstat and pump up the heat. I remember one time last year where my oldest felt cold and just kept clicking up the tstat. About 7 PM we were all sweltering and he had clicked it up to 90º and "forgot".
I'm actually OK with the bill - I have the luxuries necessities to survive ... anything less I just couldn't do it! ;D
-
I have found that because heat dries the air so much in the winter, adding humidity makes a big difference. I have to use a humidifier because of my wood stove. But it also allows us to be comfortable with the thermostat a bit lower. the nice thing about the wood stove is if you get chilly, you can warm up in the living room. It's nice to sit by the fire when you come in from the tub too. :)
-
Programmable thermostats are great for gas heat, but not for electric heat. I have a heat pump and it would actually cost more to lower the temp at certain times and then raise it back to an acceptable level. We had the privelege of living next to an energy conservation expert. His company did energy efficiency audits (I think that is what the called them). They were rather pricey but he did one for us at a discounted rate. Their goal was to help people learn ways they could lower their energy consumption. The report told us to set it and forget it, refering to our thermostat. Apparently electric and gas are completely different animals. We did not have a hot tub when we lived by them. I called my power company to ask them about setting the spa at a constant temp. or lowering and raising it. They told me that it will use less energy to leave it set at a constant temp. They did recommend keeping it at 101 instead of 104 to lower our energy consumption even more. There was a heated debate on another forum about economy mode vs. standard mode. I called my old neighbor to discuss it with him. He assured me that the power company was correct and that I should leave it at a constant temp. It has to do with the slow recovery time of electric vs. gas heaters. He explained to me that if you have two spas, one is 85 degrees and one is 100 degrees, and you want them both to be 102 degrees. You have to use the energy to get the 85 degree tub to 100 and then at that point you use the same amount of energy to get them both to 102. But, you are using alot more power to make up the difference from 85 to 100. I know he made it sound better, but I'm no expert. I trust his knowledge and that of the power co., so that is what I've done. So far, the biggest increase on our powerbill has been 60 cents. I'm sure it's costing more than 60 cents to run the spa, so there must be other factors at work, but it's clear that it's not an energy hog in any way. We keep it set at 101 and we use it every night for 1 hour and an additional 2-4 hours on weekends. BTW, our old neighbor and power co. both said that newer spas are more energy efficient than older ones, a good cover is important and they are fans of full foam insulation. Other factors might alter these findings for other parts of the country, but I just thought I'd add my experience.
-
I have found that because heat dries the air so much in the winter, adding humidity makes a big difference. I have to use a humidifier because of my wood stove. But it also allows us to be comfortable with the thermostat a bit lower. the nice thing about the wood stove is if you get chilly, you can warm up in the living room. It's nice to sit by the fire when you come in from the tub too. :)
I wood love a wood stove! But we really don't have anywhere to put one.
Before I had my house sided we had the furnace replaced (remember my last $3500 story) . Anyway they installed an April Aire humidifier on the furnace free of charge. The first 2 years before the siding we had that thing cranking out humidity. We would get very low 15% or so and with it running it maintained humidity. Ever since we had our house resided with vinyl siding our house's natural humidity level has increased dramatically. I have a 2 year old new pad that I haven't put on ... the last time I put the humidifier on for the season I think it ran the first day and that was it.
I think my family needs some Italian blood! Or a job that raises their blood pressures! ;D
-
A circ pump is designed to keep the tub clean and the other "filter times" are auxillary. I thought Jacuzzi had a circ pump. Are you saying that if Jacuzzi has a circ pump it can't keep the water nice? (assuming it does have one).
Chad, as far as heat/electric I am pushing $350 for this month - wanna trade? ;) ;D
Yes, my spa does have a circ pump. I'm not sure if it's the same one used in the '07 or '08 300 series but mine is not the high flow one that's used in the 400 series. To be completely honest, I've never put mine to the test w/o atleast 2 programmed filtration cycles. I went from 4(the max) to 3 and now I've been just doing 2 for the past 6 months. I just don't think by itself it can turn the water over enough. Maybe if I didn't use my spa as much.......
Wow $350. I rang in at $185 for both last month. It's a good thing I live in the midwest b/c I don't think I'd be able to afford such luxuries on my salary if I lived anywhere else.
-
Why?
In my case here in Northern Minnesota if I go much lower it will only take a few hours for pipes to freeze if there is a furnace problem. I am gone for 8-12 hours during the day, if the furnace breaks at noon and it is -10 outside the pipes will freeze in 4 hours when cooling from 60, and 5 hours when cooling from 65 I'll make it home to start back up plan. Ooops furnace broke at 10 AM pipes froze....damnit!!