Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: fernem on December 17, 2007, 12:38:53 pm
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:'( I have been reading every post on this forum since 2004 and now I am worried. On Friday I gave the Hot Spring dealer $500.00 down to buy a 2007 Vanguard with their great no payment until 2009 deal. But I never wet tested the Vanguard! I wet tested the Grandee and the Sovereign, which is what was filled in their back testing room and the salesman assured me the Vanguard was just smaller. Now I read that's not quite true. It may be less powerful, it has different filters, and someone said the Vanguard felt significantly different from the Grandee. What can I do? Can I change my mind at this point ... wet test more tubs ... possibly even the Sundance down the road ... or am I committed (and should be for not insisting on wet testing the Vanguard). The salesman, who sold me the tub, including tax, for $9200, never mentioned testing the Vanguard and I now feel he was less than scrupulous and letting me know the differences in my experience in the Grandee from what I might expect in the Vanguard. Also, I had wanted a lounger, but floated right out of the Sovereign so I eliminated that. Now I read that the Envoy lounger is different, not as long, and maybe I should have wet tested that as well. I don't know what to do???? And I don't know if I can change my mind! The tub is to be delivered on Wednesday morning. (I can't consider the Grandee because I need a 36" tub to get through my gates and avoid something drastic and I am short enough at 5'4" that 36" is better anyway.) Any advice would be gratefully received. Thanks.
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I have my opinions and they differ from others, but I think you will be fine. Most consumers don’t wet test at all and you tested two of the same brand. I doubt he was being unscrupulous.
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Thanks for the encouragement ... but I am still wringing my hands in fear that the tub will feel wimpy and not a good massage! Any sense, from anyone, about the Vanguard's capabilities? The Grandee was nice ... just too big for my needs. And is the Envoy lounger better than the Sovereign for shorter people or are floaters just floaters, regardless? And last, can I change my mind after writing a five hundred dollar check or is it a commitment that I can't change?
So many decisions! My deck is newly strengthened, I am ready to go. And now I am scared I didn't do enough legwork!
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I have sat in both and can’t tell the difference in the Moto-Massage DX, rotary jets, and Soothing Seven. There will be a difference in the Grandee’s corner seat with the 10 precision jets and obviously the standard Moto-Massage. Is one better? No, it is different.
I think the Envoy’s lounger is about the same or even worse than the Sovereign. That is my opinion.
Your commitment on refunds is based strictly on your dealer. I think you did plenty of legwork if you ask me.
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Thanks for the encouragement ... but I am still wringing my hands in fear that the tub will feel wimpy and not a good massage! Any sense, from anyone, about the Vanguard's capabilities? The Grandee was nice ... just too big for my needs. And is the Envoy lounger better than the Sovereign for shorter people or are floaters just floaters, regardless? And last, can I change my mind after writing a five hundred dollar check or is it a commitment that I can't change?
So many decisions! My deck is newly strengthened, I am ready to go. And now I am scared I didn't do enough legwork!
I would call the dealer and let them know that you really need the wet test feel confident in your desicion. If they had to order it then they may tell you its non refundable but hopefully you can test it. Plenty of people own it and will tell you they like it and I've sat in one and think most peope would be very happy with the wet test results but yes, you should have wet tested as should everyone.
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You will get a great massage from the Vanguard, so I wouldn't worry about that issue. As far as the lounger goes, my wife @ 5'2" was able to use the lounger in the Envoy, but not in the Aria or Jetsetter. I did not like the lounger in the Envoy, but love it in the Aria, even though the lounger in the Jetsetter was the most comfortable lounger for me.
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my wife @ 5'2" was able to use the lounger in the Envoy, but not in the Aria or Jetsetter. I did not like the lounger in the Envoy, but love it in the Aria, even though the lounger in the Jetsetter was the most comfortable lounger for me.
We all know that wet tests are wise in general but wet tests on lounge spas should be mandatory by law and that statement above pretty much explains why.
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You have 3 work days to get out of any contract after signing...hopefully that means you would get the deposit back as well. But, listen to the other posters...you could end up being very happy!! If you never have owned a tub, chances are you will be happy...nothing to compare it to.
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You have 3 work days to get out of any contract after signing...hopefully that means you would get the deposit back as well. But, listen to the other posters...you could end up being very happy!! If you never have owned a tub, chances are you will be happy...nothing to compare it to.
Only in some states....This is a law that may or may not exist, and is different from state to state.
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Did the dealership have a Vanguard in their location? Is there another dealer you can get to nearby where they have one?
If so...tell them that you're having second thoughts and you absolutely must have a wet test before you make your final purchasing decision. Don't let them scare you out of doing that. You need to. If they don't have one filled up..have them fill it up just for you. If they want your business...they'll go through the trouble and do it.
After the wet test, you'll probably still like it....but if not, the worst case scenario is you could lose 500 your deposit and end up in a tub you like better. Don't focus on that. 500 bucks averaged out over the 10+ years you'll probably own this thing is nothing. Better to buy something you like and eat that cost if you have to.
However....there's also a considerable chance you can get your deposit back (or apply it towards another hot springs spa you like better).
BTW...for what it's worth, I found that multiple models by the same manufacturer (including Hot springs) were NOT the same. I tested a couple of Hot Springs models that felt at least significantly different from one another (also tested multiple Jacuzzis, Phoenix, LA Spas). Wet test....and be sure you're getting what you want before you write that check.
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You have 3 work days to get out of any contract after signing...hopefully that means you would get the deposit back as well. But, listen to the other posters...you could end up being very happy!! If you never have owned a tub, chances are you will be happy...nothing to compare it to.
That law applies to contracts signed in your home not to a business establishment that you walked freely into and could also walk out of. The law was intended to protect people from in home sales (I.E Tin Man)...So that you could get them out of your house.
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I found the lounger in the Envoy much more comfortable that the one in the Sovereign. I'm about 5'4". I cannot remember why, but I felt more stable in it. It may have partially been the double vs singe motomassage, or something about the headrest, but I stayed put in that lounger. I cannot tell you anything about the Grandee vs the Vanguard, but I thought that the wet test between the Sovereign and the Envoy was night and day, and not just for the lounge. Loungers tend to be pretty hit or miss, but if having one was potentially important to you, I'd try the Envoy before you commit further. Like you (so far that is) I needed up without a lounger b/c none of them fit *both* me and my significant other well enough.
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That law applies to contracts signed in your home not to a business establishment that you walked freely into and could also walk out of. The law was intended to protect people from in home sales (I.E Tin Man)...So that you could get them out of your house.
Thanks for the info...I had no idea. I learned that little ditty years ago in college and thought it applied to all contracts. Fortunately I have had no need to test it ;D I just went to a site to check the law and dormitories fell under the law as well as contracts signed in your home!! Guess I was lucky way back then! Sorry for the misinformation :-[
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no Worries...many people seem to think the same thing...but the laws intent was to protect you from salesman who you could not get to leave your home and you signed up duress. I think some states may have certain circumstances where they apply a like law in a place of business but most do not as again you free to walk in and walk out. Really its a great law for the homeowner.
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Hi, everyone. Thanks for your feedback. I went to the store, the salesman told me pointblank they were moving the Vanguard out and he could not put water in it ... but he did find another store almost an hour away with water in the Vanguard. I climbed into the Vanguard dry and suddenly understood that the water really might be way too high if the jets had to have an inch or so above the highest ones. I cancelled the order. (He has since contacted me and told me he's moving a Vanguard to the back, filling it with water and wants me to come in.) I really didn't like his attitude much. He did not seem to think my request ... albeit after the fact ... was all that legitimate.
ANYWAY ... I went to the local Sundance dealership where I really liked the salespeople and sales manager and got into an Optima and Chelsee. Unfortunately, the Optima, at 37.5 " might be an inch too high too get through my 37" gate to my backyard (after I take the door off I have that clearance). I really really liked the Optima. The Chelsee was nice too and I liked it way better before I got into the Optima. There was only a $400.00 price differential during this red tag sale of 2007 models but I may need to have the sucker hoisted up and over and that no doubt costs a bundle. I have one of Sundance's delivery specialists coming tomorrow to assess the situation. Anyone know much about the Chelsee. The Optima seems marvellous to me. I really liked all the jets and the foot massage (which the Chelsee also has enough of ... but not as many and without the air business.)
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks.
fern
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My wife and I tested several of the Sundance models, including the Optima. We ended up buying a Vanguard, which was just delivered Saturday. We found that the Sundance jets stung our backs a bit. The Hotspring jets felt more comfortable. They are very adjustable and can be quite strong if you like. We've been very happy with our decision thus far.
That being said, the Optima did have a hydrotherapy mode that we really loved. It creates bubbles similar to the large spas you find in hotels. That was awesome, but the Optima was a bit above what we wanted to spend. You can't go wrong with either tub.
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ANYWAY ... I went to the local Sundance dealership where I really liked the salespeople and sales manager and got into an Optima and Chelsee. Unfortunately, the Optima, at 37.5 " might be an inch too high too get through my 37" gate to my backyard (after I take the door off I have that clearance). I really really liked the Optima. The Chelsee was nice too and I liked it way better before I got into the Optima. There was only a $400.00 price differential during this red tag sale of 2007 models but I may need to have the sucker hoisted up and over and that no doubt costs a bundle. I have one of Sundance's delivery specialists coming tomorrow to assess the situation. Anyone know much about the Chelsee. The Optima seems marvellous to me. I really liked all the jets and the foot massage (which the Chelsee also has enough of ... but not as many and without the air business.)
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks.
fern
Hey...this is something I actually have some experience in! :)
My hot tub dealer thought that they needed to bring a crane out to my house to lift the spa over my roof and place it onto the deck. It sounds like some huge ordeal, but as it turns out...it only costs them between 200-300 bucks depending on the time involved (apparently a lot of spa dealers work closely with crane companies, because each place I went told me this was an option). They just pop some straps on the thing and it's hoisted all the way over your house and into your backyard in like 20 minutes.
Anyway...when they got the tub here today....the crane guy said the trees were too close and he didn't feel safe trying to move the tub around them. So...they ended up lifting it onto a flatbed and driving that down the neighbor's hill into my back yard.
I have some fantastic pictures of all this that I'll be posting soon.
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Oh boy, I have a few comments.
First, for fernem -- why don't you tell the dealer who is holding your money that you want to wet test a vanguard and whatever other model you think you might like. I know my wife and I liked some manufacturer's lounges and not others. On Hot Spring, which we did like overall, we did not care for their loungers. We (if we go HS) would either go for Vanguard or Grandee. We like the extra seat in the Grandee. There is a member of this forum whom I trust that sells HS, and he says the MotoMassage in the upright tubs (Vanguard, Grandee) is not significantly different than those that put the Moto in the lounger. Give them a whirl -- best chance to keep your deposit.
On the 3 day rule, that's not a nationwide thing. Dr. Spa is correct. Not every state has that. In my state (IL), there is no 3 day rule on ANY contract -- even one that you sign in your home -- unless federal law provides for it. The only example of a federal law with a 3 day right of recission that I can think of (off the top of my head -- which, admittedly, is numb from the way the Bears sucked tonight) is a closing on a refinance. There is a 3 day cancellation by federal law.
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Hi, everyone. Thanks for your feedback. I went to the store, the salesman told me pointblank they were moving the Vanguard out and he could not put water in it ... but he did find another store almost an hour away with water in the Vanguard. I climbed into the Vanguard dry and suddenly understood that the water really might be way too high if the jets had to have an inch or so above the highest ones. I cancelled the order. (He has since contacted me and told me he's moving a Vanguard to the back, filling it with water and wants me to come in.) I really didn't like his attitude much. He did not seem to think my request ... albeit after the fact ... was all that legitimate.
ANYWAY ... I went to the local Sundance dealership where I really liked the salespeople and sales manager and got into an Optima and Chelsee. Unfortunately, the Optima, at 37.5 " might be an inch too high too get through my 37" gate to my backyard (after I take the door off I have that clearance). I really really liked the Optima. The Chelsee was nice too and I liked it way better before I got into the Optima. There was only a $400.00 price differential during this red tag sale of 2007 models but I may need to have the sucker hoisted up and over and that no doubt costs a bundle. I have one of Sundance's delivery specialists coming tomorrow to assess the situation. Anyone know much about the Chelsee. The Optima seems marvellous to me. I really liked all the jets and the foot massage (which the Chelsee also has enough of ... but not as many and without the air business.)
Any advice would be really appreciated.
Thanks.
fern
The Optima is a whole lot more spa than the Chelsee and for $400.00 more it will be well worth your effort to get it hoisted over the fence. The Optima has a better filtration system with a high flow circ pump and far superior electronics. It is thier top of the line series with all best amenities.