Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Josh on November 27, 2007, 05:07:12 pm
-
The hot tub that came with my house died last week during the Thanksgiving break and the repair cost is going to be really serious. I've started to look at new tubs and I've found that there are an endless amount of choices in the Seattle area to choose from.
The brands I liked the most so far are:
Phoenix: Seems to have the most bells, whistles, jets, lights and features for the buck. Value aside, I really like the layout of them....they're the ones I see at the fair each year and I'm always impressed. They offer things like TVs and stuff that are really cool for the "wow" factor.
Hot Springs: Sales pitch sounds like these are extremely clean running (they each have like 5 filters in them). I liked their water features and iPod wireless stereo speakers (so you don't have to control a stereo in the cabinet). I really liked the marble finish and their lounge seats can't be beat.
Arctic Spas: These things had by far the most jets of the tubs I saw, and supposedly are really efficient at heating because of the insulation they use. They were also the most expensive, by quite a bit.
Other contenders included Sundance and Caldera, although they didn't have a Caldera spa locally that I liked (it was online only). The Sundance spas I saw were really nice...but I didn't have a favorite model.
My questions:
Anyone have any experiences with any of these brands? It seems that every store I went to could tell me horror stories about every other brand except the one they sell.
They all rate 5 stars on a pool and spa site I visited, so as far as I can tell...this is just sales people handing out dis-information in hopes of making the sale (doesn't work on me) .
Looking for some real world thoughts.
-
Sounds strange that Olympic would stoop to horror stories. They have always been one of the best Hot Spring dealers in the country.
As to the brands, Hot Spring is arguably the largest brand. I say arguably because the industry is very closed with their numbers. Hot Spring is one of the premium brands out there.
Arctic is also considered one of the premium brands out there. They are a smaller company than some of the other brands, but from everything you hear, they build a quality spa.
Phoenix is a brand I would stay away from. They do not seem to have a good reputation in the industry.
As to which spa you should choose: You need to take the time to wet test the spas. You may look at a Hot Spring and fall in love with it. Then, when you have it delivered and are sitting in it for the first time you find that you really don't fit and are not comfortable. Or, you may love it. Better to find this out before you buy the spa. Pick from some of the top brands and then wet test to find out which best suits your needs and comfort level.
Everyone on this forum will advise you to wet test. That is the number one thing you can do to make sure you will love your spa.
Some of the other top brands out there are: Marquis, Jacuzzi, Sundance, Caldera, and Dimension One. There are others out there, but these names seem to be the ones that come up the most - including Arctic and Hot Spring of course.
Good luck with your search. Have fun with it. Try not to put too much thought into the small stuff out there. As long as you are comfortable in the spa and are comfortable with your dealer, you'll be happy in your spa.
-
The guy at Olympic was actually really friendly (I got there near closing and he stayed after hours). He wasn't the main offender in the "horror story" department, his pitch was more about why their spas are so much better than the rest....which was common at every dealer I went to. The people at Phoenix were also very friendly, and were the only place that didn't have much to say about the competition at all. When I asked him, one guy even suggested a few other places I should look...which I thought was really cool. Everywhere else, that question was met with "Don't look here, here or here" answers instead.
I heard the most horror stories at the Arctic dealership and the Caldera and Sundance places. Whether it was talking about which spas they did the most service on, or which brands they used to sell and didn't anymore....it was a lot of "You want to stay away from these guys because" stuff. One place flat out told me that several members of their competition have a cruddy warranty and hate their customers, and that's why they excel by comparison. I'll never understand why some sales people think that's a good idea....because all it does is make you leave there feeling like you've just been dealing with some used car salesman.
I haven't visited Dimension One yet, but there's a dealership about 20 miles away and their tubs definitely look cool on the internet. At the other dealerships, these were my favorites. As you can see they all have a lounge seat (something I'm really interested in) and most of them have waterfalls and all that fancy stuff. Lots of jets was also a commonality.
If anyone has any of these, or has tested them...your input is highly encouraged.
Phoenix Sorrento
(http://www.josheee.com/tubs/photogallery/photo00024937/Sorento.jpg)
Hot Springs Vista
(http://www.josheee.com/tubs/photogallery/photo00024937/vista_pearl.jpg)
Sundance Cameo
(http://www.josheee.com/tubs/photogallery/photo00024937/CameoBig.jpg)
Arctic Frontier
(http://www.josheee.com/tubs/photogallery/photo00024937/frontier_legend_extreme.jpg)
Aside from D1, which I want to go see....and Caldera which didn't really make my final cut so far, are there any glaring names I'm missing?
I also hadn't thought about wet testing before my shopping started, but I've read a lot about doing that around different websites and I'm definitely going to do it before I pick one.
-
Check out Marquis.
-
Josh,
I have the HS Vista... I love it! Over all a great tub... I am a little short for my lounge ( don't feel much on my feet from foot jets ) However I don't float, and its moto massager Dx is great! The corner seats are as good as any lounger I have been in. the depths are just different enough to give you a choice if getting hot. They also concentrate on different areas of your back. The only thing I found odd..was the fact that the control panel would not tell the actual temp of your water... only what it is set at.... You just know when it is ready by the green light that lights up. The spa is very easy to operate... I love the no by-pass filtration!
Everyone has very different views as to what makes the "perfect" tub for them. The only way you will know for sure is to wet test all the ones you have an interest in. Good luck.. and happy shopping!
-
You'll kick yourself if you bypass Jacuzzi
I almost did and ended up buying one
Especially if you're into loungers!
The Jacuzzi has those RX "swirly" jets on your back that send you right into euphoria... ::)
-
I purchased a Sundance Cameo back in June. Wife, kids, and I absolutely love it. I wanted a lounge seat and from my wet testing, this was the best one for me. The lounge features decent neck jets, very nice pulsating jets on the back and feet, along with wrist jets and bubble action for the legs. There's also a great therapy seat, which really gives your back a deep massage. Features five whirlpool jets, three of which are at foot level to really soothe your feet. Cameo features the waterfall and mostly all of the other bells & whistles as well. If I had to do it all over again, I'd select the same spa.
However, as others have stated, wet test the models that interest you. What I or anyone else likes may be totally different than what you like. As much as I love the Cameo lounge, my wife is a few inches shorter than me and doesn't get the benefit of both the back jets and foot jets at the same time because she doesn't reach that far. But she didn't mind because she loved the therapy seat.
There are a lot of quality hot tubs out there. Enjoy your search!
-
I would check out Jacuzzi also if you haven't yet, those Aqua Quip boys can be kinda cheesy sometimes, depends on you get. Overall they are a good company, as is Olympic.
You should drive up to Bellingham and buy a spa from me instead. Just don't tell Aqua Quip. ;)
-
I would check out Jacuzzi also if you haven't yet, those Aqua Quip boys can be kinda cheesy sometimes, depends on you get. Overall they are a good company, as is Olympic.
You should drive up to Bellingham and buy a spa from me instead. Just don't tell Aqua Quip. ;)
I don't know much about salesmen..and their edicate... but is that poaching??? ;) ;D
-
You could call it that. They do it to us all the time,were separated by 100 miles if that, but I get quite a few calls to go work on there spas in our territory. There is one area between us thats kinda a no mans land.
They usually beat us in price because of the volume they buy. Thats why there is price matching. ;) Its a dog eat dog world, Aqua Quip sells both Jacuzzi and Sundance out of separate stores.
-
Josh: You should check out Marquis. A dealer called Aqua Rec carries the line in the Seattle area and they have 4 or 5 locations.
http://www.marquisspas.com/locator.asp
-
Wow...so many replies here. This place is certainly hopping compared to the other forums I've visited.
Josh,
I have the HS Vista... I love it! Over all a great tub... I am a little short for my lounge ( don't feel much on my feet from foot jets ) However I don't float, and its moto massager Dx is great! The corner seats are as good as any lounger I have been in. the depths are just different enough to give you a choice if getting hot. They also concentrate on different areas of your back. The only thing I found odd..was the fact that the control panel would not tell the actual temp of your water... only what it is set at.... You just know when it is ready by the green light that lights up. The spa is very easy to operate... I love the no by-pass filtration!
Everyone has very different views as to what makes the "perfect" tub for them. The only way you will know for sure is to wet test all the ones you have an interest in. Good luck.. and happy shopping!
Wow...you're the first person I've seen who actually owns something I'm considering buying (outside the sales people that is). :)
I really liked sitting in the Vista last night (granted, there was no water in it). My Dad has had a Hot Springs tub for the last 15 years or so and the thing almost never needs maintenance. He and my stepmom are in there all the time and it's mounted into a deck sort of the same way mine is. It's definitely the first brand name I was aware of....besides Jacuzzi. The only drawback for me is the controls are on the side, so I'd need to chop a hole in my deck to access it easily. That was a ding for Hot Springs for me. I loved the finish and the lounge in that one was the perfect size for me (I'm 6'4" so they can't be too tall for my tastes).
I purchased a Sundance Cameo back in June. Wife, kids, and I absolutely love it. I wanted a lounge seat and from my wet testing, this was the best one for me.
I will definitely be trying it out. It was really the only Sundance model available in the store I checked out that worked for me (the others were all too small) so...it's really the only choice for that brand that I've seen. If I really loved it, I might think about a larger model that they sell online....assuming that all the tubs in one line are generally similar in a lot of ways. All the ones I like seem to have a very similar layout to the Cameo though. That Lounge was really comfy (while dry).
I would check out Jacuzzi also if you haven't yet, those Aqua Quip boys can be kinda cheesy sometimes, depends on you get. Overall they are a good company, as is Olympic.
You should drive up to Bellingham and buy a spa from me instead. Just don't tell Aqua Quip. ;)
There are two Aqua Quips within 15 minutes of my home and job....so I will definitely have to hit them. I think service calls from Bellingham might be a little pricey anyway. ;)
-
I've had a Caldera Moorea and love it. Didn't want the lounge but the wife did and I'm glad we got it. I has a pump problem with it shutting dowan after a hour or so but it hasn't happened lately and my dealer assured me he'd correct it if it continued.
-
If you really need to nix Hot Springs because of the front control panel... one word for you... Caldera. My sister has one... when I am not in my Vista I am in her Caldera Geneva... what mine doesn't has.. hers does... between the two tubs they cover it all! The Caldera has the air bubbles... and a Volcano Jet in the Bottom... that is the one thing I wish mine had... however I find it hard to talk over....and I do like conversation in the tub... Lets face it... when you have a tub full.. most of the time the jets are turned off or down... in cycles anyway...
With your size you will definately want to wet test... you are on the other end from me.. I needed to because I am only 5'2... so some of the seats didn't sit right... for you I suggest you make sure you get a deep tub... 38" height... that way you will have more room in the foot well.
-
WET TEST!!!!! I wanted a lounge so much when I started, but ended up after wet testing with no lounge.
Don't buy until you try!!!!
Have you looked at the Caldera geneva? Same company as Hot Springs but the control panel is in front.
-
WET TEST!!!!! I wanted a lounge so much when I started, but ended up after wet testing with no lounge.
Don't buy until you try!!!!
Have you looked at the Caldera geneva? Same company as Hot Springs but the control panel is in front.
I have only seen a couple of Calderas in person, they were all smaller than I wanted. That Geneva looks a lot like the Hot Springs one, except....does it have waterfalls or some sort of Water feature? I like those...they don't seem to serve any purpose except to sound and look cool (but that still is interesting).
-
I have only seen a couple of Calderas in person, they were all smaller than I wanted. That Geneva looks a lot like the Hot Springs one, except....does it have waterfalls or some sort of Water feature? I like those...they don't seem to serve any purpose except to sound and look cool (but that still is interesting).
The Caldera Geneva does have a waterfall... and plenty of room I think it is 7'5"x7'5"x38". 450 gallons. It is almost as big as the Vista.
-
Don't let the side control panel on the Hot Spring dissuade you from their spas. They have a remote control that operates all the functions of the spa. It actually does more because you can control the speed of the color loop on the lights from the remote and you can't do that on the main control. Plus, you can keep the remote inside the house and check the temperature setting, run the jets if you just feel like it, etc.
All the brands being mentioned here are great spas. D1, Jacuzzi, Marquis, Hot Spring, Sundance, Caldera, etc.
Jacuzzi and Sundance are made by the same company as are Hot Spring and Caldera. Not that matters, but just FYI.
I have a Vanguard. I also looked at the Sovereign and the Envoy. I am a floater so I went with the Vanguard. The loungers didn't suit me. Plus, my wife is on the short side, so she didn't want a lounger. I really love my Vanguard. I have the remote, SpAudio, Cover Cradle, Everwood Steps. I loaded mine up. It is great.
-
I can tell you that I love my Arctic, and came very close to buying a HS, and both of those tubs are probably better quality than Phoenix (from my limited education, mostly done right here.)
Its has been said, but wet test. then wet test again.
Arctic is a smaller company, and there have been a few warranty issues posted here, but I think that with quality *local* dealer support, you'd be fine. I bought my tub as a year old floor model, so the price was excellent, and that made all the difference. I do think that Arctic's "MSRPs" are high, but I think they also bargain a lot.
-
What is the financial condition of Phoenix? There was some chatter here a week or two ago that they were closing up shop.
-
Don't let the side control panel on the Hot Spring dissuade you from their spas. They have a remote control that operates all the functions of the spa. It actually does more because you can control the speed of the color loop on the lights from the remote and you can't do that on the main control. Plus, you can keep the remote inside the house and check the temperature setting, run the jets if you just feel like it, etc.
Does the remote give a digital reading of actual spa water temp ( unlike the control panel ) That alone would make it worth while for me... I am crazy like that.. lol... It also sounds great that you can control the speed of the color wheel... I think I will have to stop by the dealership and look into it. I wonder if there is someplace that sells them online?? :-/
-
I can tell you that I love my Arctic
Thank you, Anne, that's good to hear.
Arctic is a smaller company,
The Little Company That Could! From nowhere to a leading brand in 12 years. Yes, there are a couple of companies who make more spas in a month than we make in a year, but of the 130-odd manufacturers in North America, we figure we rank somewhere between #9 and #12 by volume (precise data is hard to come by). 8-)
and there have been a few warranty issues posted here
I do my best to ensure that every last one of them is dealt with.
I do think that Arctic's "MSRPs" are high, but I think they also bargain a lot.
As they say in the car ads, "Dealer may sell for less".
-
What is the financial condition of Phoenix? There was some chatter here a week or two ago that they were closing up shop.
Really? That's not good because they had several of my favorites there. Was this something that was an actual news story or just whispers in the wind?
Don't let the side control panel on the Hot Spring dissuade you from their spas. They have a remote control that operates all the functions of the spa. It actually does more because you can control the speed of the color loop on the lights from the remote and you can't do that on the main control. Plus, you can keep the remote inside the house and check the temperature setting, run the jets if you just feel like it, etc.
So...if you have that remote, is there any reason you'd need to access the side panel at all? I wonder why the salesguy didn't tell me about that. He did show me the jet controls and stuff that were mounted on the top of the tub, but told me that you needed to get to the main panel and suggested an opening in my deck (it's not an impossibility, it's just not a preference).
-
Really? That's not good because they had several of my favorites there. Was this something that was an actual news story or just whispers in the wind?
As far as I know, they are still in business:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Phoenix2007a.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/5bed389f.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/6523bbd9.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/011436dc.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/Phoenix2007c.jpg)
Looks like you can buy the spas factory direct.
Terminator
-
Well that's good, I'd hate to end up picking up a tub and have the company go under all of a sudden. That factory looks pretty huge, so I guess they're not two guys in a garage or anything. :)
It's cool that so many of the companies I've been looking at (Sundance, Hot Springs, Phoenix, Arctic) have all been around for awhile. The only brand I'd ever heard of before searching was Jacuzzi....so I was pretty surprised to learn about all these other big name brands that have been making hot tubs for 20 or 30 years now too.
Going to look at two more brands today after work. Then I might still need to check out Marquis as recommended above and perhaps D1, which is about 20 minutes from home.
-
Well that's good, I'd hate to end up picking up a tub and have the company go under all of a sudden. That factory looks pretty huge, so I guess they're not two guys in a garage or anything. :)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/203f244a.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/0481d966.jpg)
We don't offer factory direct or European Bleaching, though. :(
Terminator
-
That Phoenix factory looked pretty scary to me! I don't think I'd want a spa from there.....do they sell those empty ones that were sitting in the sun with the panel off? Kind of looked like a junkyard to me.
Now, Watkins.......that's a factory I feel good about getting my spa from!
-
Well that's good, I'd hate to end up picking up a tub and have the company go under all of a sudden. That factory looks pretty huge, so I guess they're not two guys in a garage or anything. :)
That factory does look good sized but so did the Munster's house.
I'd suggest you go to the websites of some of the major manufacturers and use their dealer locators to see where your nearest dealer is. These links will actually put you at the dealer locator sections of their websites:
http://www.arcticspas.com/index.php/en/custom_content/74/74/
http://artesianspas.com/main/dealer_locator.asp
http://www.calderaspas.com/Locator/index.html
http://www.dimensiononespas.com/findadealer.asp
http://www.hotspring.com/Dealers/index.html
http://www.marquisspas.com/locator.asp
http://retailer.sundancespas.com/
There are more certainly, this is just a quick list I culled from a larger list based on what I think are some of the best. Visit 3 or 4 or 5 of the closest and see what you like.
-
That Phoenix factory looked pretty scary to me! I don't think I'd want a spa from there.....do they sell those empty ones that were sitting in the sun with the panel off? Kind of looked like a junkyard to me.
Now, Watkins.......that's a factory I feel good about getting my spa from!
I personally don't shop for stuff based on what their factory photos look like. I seriously doubt you'd like to see pictures of many of the factories you buy products from every day. Ever shop at Wal Mart? The factory conditions at the places some of those products come from are pretty shocking. I know there are people that see that stuff and say "I'll never shop there again!"...but I've just never been one of those guys.
I don't particularly care if the factory my hot tub was made in looks like a barn, or like an office building...so long as the product they make is a good one. I was concerned that someone said Phoenix was going out of business (I thought East_Spa_TX was trying to assure me that they weren't, I didn't immediately realize he was just trying to show me how much prettier the Hot Springs factory is than theirs). I suppose I'll have to learn to read the usernames around here and realize who the salesmen are. ;)
Other than hot tub dealers interested in bashing their competition, I haven't read or heard any consumer reports saying anything terrible about any of the several brands I'm looking at. They all have 5 star ratings at Pool and Spa...so that's a good sign, right? It's not like I'm shopping at Costco here, I'm choosing from what are supposedly some good brands with long histories and visiting them at the dealers in my area.
So far I've visited Arctic, Caldera, Sundance, Phoenix, Jacuzzi and Hot Springs dealers (I feel like I left one out). I still have to go see Marquis and D1 thanks to some recommendations I've read from people here. When I pick a few I like from that list...I'm going to wet test a bunch of them and buy the one that feels the best....also thanks to some advice I've read online.
Definitely looking for opinions from any owners of the aforementioned tubs. I've heard a few so far and those have been very helpful.
-
I hope you don't think I'm a dealer! I started shopping for the first time 2-3 weeks ago for my first hot tub, and after wet testing Hot Springs, Tiger River, Sundance, Dynasty, d-1, Caldera, Leisure bay and Vita and looking at Jacuzzi, I decided on a Caldera, being delivered tomorrow.
After the thousands of posts I read on this forum and others, the same companies kept coming up as the best: Hot Springs, Sundance, Caldera, D-1, Marquis, Arctic, Jacuzzi, Artesian & Coleman. I had never heard of Pheonix until your post.
These Forums have helped in my decision so much, but the biggest help by far was WET TESTING!!!! In fact, I tested a few models several times to help with the decision.
Good luck in your search!!!!!
-
Josh - It's good to see your posting getting the attention is deserves. Out of those that you listed in your initial post, here is my opinion (i know, everyone has one)... The Caldera is going to give you the "most for your money". Depending on the market you are in, the dealers may or may not be as aggressive on pricing as they need to be. This board can help you narrow down what a "fair" price would be for ANY tub.
On the VERY low end is Phoenix (It's not Wal-mart but rather is "Big Lots" level in the Spa world. The 5-star on any one website is probably "paid for" with advertising dollars. You can find those details somewhere on the web). They are essentially a "re-brander" spa that would be on par with Sunbelt, Viking, HydroSpa, etc. Most of these have limited, often dated-looking shells and the "customizers" usually add their own jets to them (this also means that high-end quality control status like ISO9001 for leak testing is something you WILL NOT see on that level of spa). They have their place in the market and that place is UNDER the $5K price tag. As long as you are considering one of theirs UNDER that line, I'd say go for it. If your getting a price ANYWHERE above $5K, it's 100% profit for the "customizer" and there is little guarantee of an individuals work.
On the high end, you have Hot Springs and Dimension One. Both great, nice spas for those shopping in the "over $10K price range. VERY HIGH Quality control product, excellent support system of dealers, etc but you DO pay a price for it.
The majority of "upper-end Spa buyers are shopping in the $6K to $8K price range. There are a LOT of tubs in that market. You can get low end Hot Springs or a higher-end Caldera. They are BOTH made by the EXACT same company, Watkins. Others to consider in that "sweet spot" price range are Marquis, Artic, Jacuzzi/Sundance and a host of others. Each will give you different things. Wet test (if you can) and that will lead you in the right direction FOR YOU.
PS - Not a dealer. Just an owner and a common nuecense (sp?) on this board from time to time.
-
I personally don't shop for stuff based on what their factory photos look like. I seriously doubt you'd like to see pictures of many of the factories you buy products from every day. Ever shop at Wal Mart? The factory conditions at the places some of those products come from are pretty shocking. I know there are people that see that stuff and say "I'll never shop there again!"...but I've just never been one of those guys.
I don't particularly care if the factory my hot tub was made in looks like a barn, or like an office building...so long as the product they make is a good one. I was concerned that someone said Phoenix was going out of business (I thought East_Spa_TX was trying to assure me that they weren't, I didn't immediately realize he was just trying to show me how much prettier the Hot Springs factory is than theirs). I suppose I'll have to learn to read the usernames around here and realize who the salesmen are. ;)
The Phoenix plant has had at least one bad fire due to their mis handling of hazardous materials. And leaving all those spas outside in the hot sun is a terrible thing to do to them. There was some thread or other a few weeks back speculating that they are in financial trouble. Rumor or not, I have no idea.
But don't be fooled into thinking that Phoenix is in the same league as the other names like Jacuzzi, Sundance, Hot Springs, etc...
Terminator may be a spa dealer, but he's totally credible and wouldn't jack you around just to put you off any particular brand unless he thought there was good reason.
In this case, do take a good look at those factory photos- you might not consider them to be indicitave of the quality of the company, but you probably should.
-
The guy I bought my Arctic from decided to switch to Phoenix spas a few months later. He told me "The price point is a lot better, and it is easier to sell spas to people at a lower price than to explain to them why another brand is better quality." I'm not kidding.
Now he appears to be out of business.
So sad...... ;D
Anyway, my uncle has a D1 Californian; has had it at least 5-6 years, and loves it, never had any problems with it. I wet tested them, and was pretty impressed, but they were not quite right for me.
-
I personally don't shop for stuff based on what their factory photos look like. I seriously doubt you'd like to see pictures of many of the factories you buy products from every day. Ever shop at Wal Mart? The factory conditions at the places some of those products come from are pretty shocking. I know there are people that see that stuff and say "I'll never shop there again!"...but I've just never been one of those guys.
I don't particularly care if the factory my hot tub was made in looks like a barn, or like an office building...so long as the product they make is a good one. I was concerned that someone said Phoenix was going out of business (I thought East_Spa_TX was trying to assure me that they weren't, I didn't immediately realize he was just trying to show me how much prettier the Hot Springs factory is than theirs). I suppose I'll have to learn to read the usernames around here and realize who the salesmen are. ;)
Other than hot tub dealers interested in bashing their competition, I haven't read or heard any consumer reports saying anything terrible about any of the several brands I'm looking at. They all have 5 star ratings at Pool and Spa...so that's a good sign, right? It's not like I'm shopping at Costco here, I'm choosing from what are supposedly some good brands with long histories and visiting them at the dealers in my area.
So far I've visited Arctic, Caldera, Sundance, Phoenix, Jacuzzi and Hot Springs dealers (I feel like I left one out). I still have to go see Marquis and D1 thanks to some recommendations I've read from people here. When I pick a few I like from that list...I'm going to wet test a bunch of them and buy the one that feels the best....also thanks to some advice I've read online.
Definitely looking for opinions from any owners of the aforementioned tubs. I've heard a few so far and those have been very helpful.
First of all, let me defend Terminator. He is not a bashing type salesperson. He is upfront and honest with everyone. That is just his way of warning you.
Phoenix has a bad reputation in the industry. I would stay away.
The Five Star ratings you refer to from PoolandSpa.com is not any kind of a sign. All that means is the manufacturer paid for the bill for their rating this year. It is solely a marketing gimmick. Some have said extortion. These ratings are a sham.
There are rumors that Phoenix may be going out of business. There were rumors before that Hydro Spa was about to declare bankruptcy - and then they did. Right now, the spa industry, as a whole, is way way down. So, some of the smaller, less capitalized, lower quality companies are not going to make it. It is possible that Phoenix fits into that category. In this climate, it is best to stick with the leaders because you know they'll weather the storm and still be there when the industry picks back up.
-
Does the remote give a digital reading of actual spa water temp ( unlike the control panel ) That alone would make it worth while for me... I am crazy like that.. lol... It also sounds great that you can control the speed of the color wheel... I think I will have to stop by the dealership and look into it. I wonder if there is someplace that sells them online?? :-/
As mentioned before, you can change some jumper settings to show actual temperature. When you do that, the remote will show actual temperature as well. It doesn't do that before. I think you'd have a hard time finding it online. Hot Spring is pretty averse to its dealers doing business online - primarily for service reasons. So, you really don't see their dealers doing any kind of sales online. Your dealer is your best bet.
-
Really? That's not good because they had several of my favorites there. Was this something that was an actual news story or just whispers in the wind?
So...if you have that remote, is there any reason you'd need to access the side panel at all? I wonder why the salesguy didn't tell me about that. He did show me the jet controls and stuff that were mounted on the top of the tub, but told me that you needed to get to the main panel and suggested an opening in my deck (it's not an impossibility, it's just not a preference).
You would still need a way to access it for service down the road, so you would need some sort of removable panel on your deck. That is done regularly for all spas. Even spas with a top side control still have equipment that you will eventually need to access so you cannot permanently block the equipment compartment.
However, for daily use, if you have the remote, you would not need to see the panel. A lot of people will keep the spa up just high enough to see the control panel.
-
I hope you don't think I'm a dealer! I started shopping for the first time 2-3 weeks ago for my first hot tub, and after wet testing Hot Springs, Tiger River, Sundance, Dynasty, d-1, Caldera, Leisure bay and Vita and looking at Jacuzzi, I decided on a Caldera, being delivered tomorrow.
No, I was referring to the dealers that try to tell you not to buy one brand because it's shady, or shoddy, or doesn't have good repair techs, or isn't as high quality....compared to theirs. I've been meeting a lot of them this week, then I go to the next store...and meet a new one that tells me the exact same story about the brand I just looked at. I quoted your post in my last reply, but I was just talking about the factory pictures. I wouldn't really compare some digital snapshots some competing dealer snapped of one factory to the PR photos taken at another one and put any weight in that. It's the same thing as the Arctic guys who said Hot Springs hot tubs are garbage and cost 5 times as much to heat and clean as their tubs. I didn't believe any of that either.
These Forums have helped in my decision so much, but the biggest help by far was WET TESTING!!!! In fact, I tested a few models several times to help with the decision.
Good luck in your search!!!!!
Thanks. I find that there are a lot of really helpful people here, including the dealers that have chimed in. I'm definitely wet testing this weekend.
-
Josh - It's good to see your posting getting the attention is deserves. Out of those that you listed in your initial post, here is my opinion (i know, everyone has one)... The Caldera is going to give you the "most for your money". Depending on the market you are in, the dealers may or may not be as aggressive on pricing as they need to be. This board can help you narrow down what a "fair" price would be for ANY tub.
Thanks for your opinion, I really appreciate all the personal rankings you laid out there. After I wet test a bunch towards the end of the week, I'll be posting my favorites and try to get some opinions here. I also looked at LA Spas today, they were pretty nice too. They were right in what you called "the sweet spot" pricewise.
The Phoenix plant has had at least one bad fire due to their mis handling of hazardous materials. And leaving all those spas outside in the hot sun is a terrible thing to do to them. There was some thread or other a few weeks back speculating that they are in financial trouble. Rumor or not, I have no idea.
But don't be fooled into thinking that Phoenix is in the same league as the other names like Jacuzzi, Sundance, Hot Springs, etc...
Terminator may be a spa dealer, but he's totally credible and wouldn't jack you around just to put you off any particular brand unless he thought there was good reason.
In this case, do take a good look at those factory photos- you might not consider them to be indicitave of the quality of the company, but you probably should.
I hear ya. I've talked to a few owners (there are some people on Craigslist locally selling them) they seem to love the things. I didn't know they weren't considered in the same leauge as some of the other brands, but it's definitely good info. It's a shame, because they were some of the best looking tubs, with the most jets and some really cool water features (something I thought would be great for parties).
The guy I bought my Arctic from decided to switch to Phoenix spas a few months later. He told me "The price point is a lot better, and it is easier to sell spas to people at a lower price than to explain to them why another brand is better quality." I'm not kidding.
Now he appears to be out of business.
So sad...... ;D
Anyway, my uncle has a D1 Californian; has had it at least 5-6 years, and loves it, never had any problems with it. I wet tested them, and was pretty impressed, but they were not quite right for me.
I'm going to see the D1s sometime soon (not sure if I'll make it tomorrow or if it'll be on the weekend.)
The Five Star ratings you refer to from PoolandSpa.com is not any kind of a sign. All that means is the manufacturer paid for the bill for their rating this year. It is solely a marketing gimmick. Some have said extortion. These ratings are a sham.
Is there a rating system out there I should trust? Perhaps a third party ranking website or consumer reports or something? Every brand I've been looking at (Hot Springs, Caldera, Sundance, Arctic, Jacuzzi...etc, they all have the 5 star rating. If what you're saying is true and all those ratings are a sham, I'd be interested in getting some pointers towards the good ratings.
-
You would still need a way to access it for service down the road, so you would need some sort of removable panel on your deck. That is done regularly for all spas. Even spas with a top side control still have equipment that you will eventually need to access so you cannot permanently block the equipment compartment.
However, for daily use, if you have the remote, you would not need to see the panel. A lot of people will keep the spa up just high enough to see the control panel.
My deck is elevated about 4 feet off the ground and the tub is mounted flush on a platform sunken in cement that is about 3 feet from the dirt. The tub ends up being near flush with the top of the deck, so while this configuration allows me access to the side panel for repairs or draining.....the control panel would ideally be on top. I don't like crawling under there unless I really have to. ;)
This is the main reason why I havent' really been looking at spas with built in stereos, TVs or anything that needs to be controlled from the side. It's not completely out of the question to cut a hole in the side of the deck so I could enjoy those features....but I'd rather not if I don't have to.
-
Hot Spring has their new SpAudio Cast. You can plug your Ipod, stereo, tv, whatever into it. It wirelessly transmits to your spa. No need for a stereo at your spa. Pretty cool set up.
As long as you can get access to your equipment, you'll be fine.
-
Is there a rating system out there I should trust? Perhaps a third party ranking website or consumer reports or something? Every brand I've been looking at (Hot Springs, Caldera, Sundance, Arctic, Jacuzzi...etc, they all have the 5 star rating. If what you're saying is true and all those ratings are a sham, I'd be interested in getting some pointers towards the good ratings.
This is unfortunate, but not really.
One is the SpaSearch.org certification. Mfgs have to meet certain standards to be certified. It is not a ranking, just a certification.
The best is the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF). They certify numerous things on the spa and then certify the entire spa. Their NSF Protocol P181 sets certain standards. To date, only Hot Spring and Tiger River have received the certification. Not sure why others haven't.
The NSF is totally independent and unbiased.
-
Hot Spring has their new SpAudio Cast. You can plug your Ipod, stereo, tv, whatever into it. It wirelessly transmits to your spa. No need for a stereo at your spa. Pretty cool set up.
As long as you can get access to your equipment, you'll be fine.
Saw that at the Hot Springs dealer and I was really impressed with that feature. They didn't have it hooked up so I could actually listen to it or see how far away it worked from, but it certainly seemed cool.
This is unfortunate, but not really.
One is the SpaSearch.org certification. Mfgs have to meet certain standards to be certified. It is not a ranking, just a certification.
The best is the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF). They certify numerous things on the spa and then certify the entire spa. Their NSF Protocol P181 sets certain standards. To date, only Hot Spring and Tiger River have received the certification. Not sure why others haven't.
The NSF is totally independent and unbiased.
The guy at Hot Springs actually showed me the certification, but he said it was for the cleanliness of the water in the tub (the 5 filters make it very chemical friendly). I liked the LA Spas filters even more, because you can machine wash them (they're removeable cloth fiber covers draped over a plastic housing).
Anyway....I'm still interested in hearing all sorts of opinions on quality and features, but here's a question I haven't asked yet. This is one I'm very interested in hearing a dealer opinion on actually. :)
So...what's the market price for the:
Hot Springs Vista or Grandee?
Jacuzzi 480
Sundance Cameo
Phoenix Sorrento
Arctic Klondiker or Frontier
LA Springs Heet
And as a follow up, what's the best deal I might be able to get? Is there a particular time of year that's best?
-
I can answer any questions reguarding Arctic Spas. This is the only spa I have ever sold in the 8 years of my adventure. I have a store in Breckenridge, CO and even at 9000 plus feet I still get referal letters on the energy efficeny.
One customer just gave me a whole year of his energy bill. 9 months they used less energy. Of the 3 months that he used more one month was a 1% increase another was 8% and the third was 31% (however they were out of town for 2 1/2 weeks the month the year before).
Michael
-
Wow...so many replies here. This place is certainly hopping compared to the other forums I've visited.
I haven't real all the replies here yet, but I don't think we've ever had an actual Pheonix Spa owner here. I wonder if anyone has posted the photos of their factory in this thread yet. They are somewhat infamous by association. The bible didn't fortell, as far asI know, that the Anti-christ would come to earth in the form of a spa salesman who rebrands Phoenix Spas and then trashes the rest of the industry and anyone who opposes him with all the charm of a rabid dog.
-
I wouldn't really compare some digital snapshots some competing dealer snapped of one factory to the PR photos taken at another one and put any weight in that.
There is a glut of information regarding those pictures going back several years on this and other spa-related forums. When I first saw those pictures posted, it piqued my curiosity and prompted me to explore further into the story. It turned out to be a gateway to Hell and has taken years off of my life.
I posted them as a not-too-subtle warning to you. If you choose to see it as an attempt on my part to influence you towards my brand of spa, I could simply care less as there is no profit in it for me.
If you choose not to see that the quality of the product is a result of the quality of the process, then I wish you well.
Terminator
-
I can answer any questions reguarding Arctic Spas. This is the only spa I have ever sold in the 8 years of my adventure. I have a store in Breckenridge, CO and even at 9000 plus feet I still get referal letters on the energy efficeny.
One customer just gave me a whole year of his energy bill. 9 months they used less energy. Of the 3 months that he used more one month was a 1% increase another was 8% and the third was 31% (however they were out of town for 2 1/2 weeks the month the year before).
Michael
That sounds really good. My spa is currently drained and off, so this will be the first month I can actually do a full comparison and figure out how much energy I was using per month on the old one (then I can check out the new one by comparison).
I haven't real all the replies here yet, but I don't think we've ever had an actual Pheonix Spa owner here. I wonder if anyone has posted the photos of their factory in this thread yet. They are somewhat infamous by association. The bible didn't fortell, as far asI know, that the Anti-christ would come to earth in the form of a spa salesman who rebrands Phoenix Spas and then trashes the rest of the industry and anyone who opposes him with all the charm of a rabid dog.
I've noticed that there don't seem to be a lot of owners on this forum. On another forum I went to, there are a few...and they had good things to say about them, but they were shown the same pictures from the factory in 2002 and 2004 and told about a fire in the factory and said they were going to close. That was 3 years ago, and I see the same stories are still floating around....so it's definitely something I'm going to be thinking about.
-
There is a glut of information regarding those pictures going back several years on this and other spa-related forums. When I first saw those pictures posted, it piqued my curiosity and prompted me to explore further into the story. It turned out to be a gateway to Hell and has taken years off of my life.
I posted them as a not-too-subtle warning to you. If you choose to see it as an attempt on my part to influence you towards my brand of spa, I could simply care less as there is no profit in it for me.
If you choose not to see that the quality of the product is a result of the quality of the process, then I wish you well.
Terminator
I understand that you're trying to help me make an informed decision and whether or not it comes across properly in my posts, I do appreciate that. I hope you also understand where I'm coming from. It's not that I don't believe what you're saying, or think that you're trying to help.....it's simply that I've got to be a little skeptical considering the source.
I've met over a dozen different dealers over the last couple of weeks and almost every single one of them has had something to say that's really negative about their competition. Whether it's telling me that the competitors break all the time, that they're cheaply made, that they're going to go under, or that they farm out repairs to other people, everyone has a very similar pitch. There have been a few exceptions, but generally...I've noticed that each dealer spends several minutes during their sales talk telling me why I shouldn't buy their competitors products (instead of simply telling me why theirs is the one to buy). Then I go to the next store and hear a similar story about the one I just visited. Suddenly "the best in the industry" becomes the worst, and I'm told I should stay away from it at all costs. It's frustrating...because I know that can't be true about every brand.
Regarding your interest in steering me away from a competitor, whether or not you personally make a profit from it....obviously, whether or not people buy the brand you sell directly affects your paycheck. If everyone wakes up tomorrow and buys a D1, then they tell their friends to the same, your company goes under and you either find a new product to sell or find a new job. Obviously that's an extreme example, but to put it more simply: You don't go to a Pepsi salesman for information about Coke. If you do, you have to realize anything he tells you is probably a bit suspect.
As a representative of your company, it's totally fine to be proud of your product....and anything you can tell me about it is extremely helpful. You'll just have to understand when I don't hold your opinion on the competition in as high esteem as I might hold that of an owner (or a dealer of those products). It’s nothing personal…that’s just smart research.
I didn't realize your post was a warning at first, but after I did...I did some net research of my own and found the site they originated from (http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/Phenoix_Factory/factory.htm).
That site started in 2002, but there are some 2004 pictures as well. This one shows a ton of tubs sitting outside.
(http://www.selberg.org/~speed/havenspas/files/Phenoix_Factory/11-1-02b.jpg)
We don't have any pictures someone took at the other factories, so I don’t really have anything to compare these shots to. Still, if storing a hot tub outside is a bad idea (is it?) then I suppose I should take it under advisement that they do this at Phoenix (or did as recently as 3 years ago).
I plan to wet test at least 5 of the brands I've shopped (probably more) and ultimately, that's going to be my biggest deciding factor. Whether it was made in someone's back yard or hand formed in the middle of Bill Gate's house....unless it feels good, it's not the hot tub for me.
-
We don't have any pictures someone took at the other factories, so I don’t really have anything to compare these shots to. Still, if storing a hot tub outside is a bad idea (is it?) then I suppose I should take it under advisement that they do this at Phoenix (or did as recently as 3 years ago).
Those spas are only outside for "bleaching" purposes. That's really no different than leaving frozen chicken out all day on the kitchen counter to thaw while you're at work. It probably wouldn't be a problem.
-
Those spas are only outside for "bleaching" purposes. That's really no different than leaving frozen chicken out all day on the kitchen counter to thaw while you're at work. It probably wouldn't be a problem.
Hey wait...aren't you supposed to thaw your chicken in the fridge? ;D
BTW folks....here's the tub I'm replacing. Can anyone here identify the model?
(http://www.josheee.com/tubs/oldtub.jpg)
-
Completely unrelated question about the forums here....
Why does this board ask for access to my clip board? This is the first website I've ever been to where it asks if I want to allow it to access my clip board. The message pops up every time I hit "preview" or "post"...on both Windows XP and Windows Vista in IE7.
-
Josh,
As I've said before here, I'm a minority, but checking out Beachcomber would be worth your time.
Not much of a "bells and whistles" company, but incredibly well-made. I've had mine for a year and a half, and am still very happy with it.
Leaky
-
I'm sort of into the bells and whistles. At a minimum, I want to get lights and some sort of waterfall, not because I need them, but because they look cool. After all, that's half the phone of getting something new (I want it to look different than that one I already had).
Comfort, lots of jets that can be adjusted and cost are the other factors I'm also really big on.
-
I'm sort of into the bells and whistles. At a minimum, I want to get lights and some sort of waterfall, not because I need them, but because they look cool. After all, that's half the phone of getting something new (I want it to look different than that one I already had).
Comfort, lots of jets that can be adjusted and cost are the other factors I'm also really big on.
You need to check out Jacuzzi in your quest for a hot tub. They have just the right amount of bells & whistles, in my opinion, and a nice lighted waterfall, while keeping a reasonable price (compared to other quality brands). We have the J-365, and there's nothing I'd change (with the excpetion of another cupholder....they only put 3 in the shell...why not 4?!?)
-
The best is the National Sanitation Foundation (NSF). They certify numerous things on the spa and then certify the entire spa. Their NSF Protocol P181 sets certain standards. To date, only Hot Spring and Tiger River have received the certification. Not sure why others haven't.
We explored this some time ago. The NSF P181 is a "compendium" standard composed of existing required industry standards. Since we already meet those standards, there didn't seem to be much point to the superfluous P181. Our R&D guy responsible for getting our products certified laughed at it. "It's just a marketing thing", he said.
So, of course, Marketing wanted one desperately. ("Why should we let HS be the only ones?") ;D
In the end we decided to concentrate our efforts on other things, like being recognized as one of Canada's 50 Best Managed Companies. For which, by the way, we didn't pay a cent to anybody, but had to earn fair and square.
-
We don't have any pictures someone took at the other factories, so I don’t really have anything to compare these shots to. Still, if storing a hot tub outside is a bad idea (is it?) then I suppose I should take it under advisement that they do this at Phoenix (or did as recently as 3 years ago).
You can find some factory pictures on some of the corporate websites. I think I've seen Hot Springs and Sundance photos, and they look nothing like that hillbilly moonshine looking factory posted earlier in this thread. And yes, it's a bad thing for an unfilled spa to be sitting in hot sunlight for extended periods of time. Some spa manuals warn against that very practice. Even if thiey aren't doing this now, they were at one time, and to me is a red flag as to the quality and professionalism of the product and the people who make it.
-
I think I've seen Hot Springs and Sundance photos, and they look nothing like that hillbilly moonshine looking factory posted earlier in this thread.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
The silo does look like a giant still, don't it!
I knew I'd seen it somewhere before:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/SpaFarmMrPluggScene1-1.jpg)
Term
-
You need to check out Jacuzzi in your quest for a hot tub. They have just the right amount of bells & whistles, in my opinion, and a nice lighted waterfall, while keeping a reasonable price (compared to other quality brands). We have the J-365, and there's nothing I'd change (with the excpetion of another cupholder....they only put 3 in the shell...why not 4?!?)
I did so, and they are really nice. I'll be soak testing this weekend. :)
You can find some factory pictures on some of the corporate websites. I think I've seen Hot Springs and Sundance photos, and they look nothing like that hillbilly moonshine looking factory posted earlier in this thread. And yes, it's a bad thing for an unfilled spa to be sitting in hot sunlight for extended periods of time. Some spa manuals warn against that very practice. Even if thiey aren't doing this now, they were at one time, and to me is a red flag as to the quality and professionalism of the product and the people who make it.
There's a huge difference between the corporate beauty photos (like the ones of the Watkins factory East_Tx_Spa posted earlier in this thread) and some digital snapshots some third party snapped over a fence in 2002. Am I saying that I'm ignoring the pictures themselves? Of course not. However...if a Honda salesman came in here and posted a similar shot of a run down Toyota manufacturing line from 5 years ago and tried to tell me it's a sign I shouldn't buy a car from a company that otherwise makes really nice cars, I'd probably shrug that off too.
I get it though. In several people's opinions the Phoenix is a bad idea. I have noticed that none of these opinions are coming from people who owned one and got rid of it, or repaired them and think they're a hassle, or even sat in a friend's tub and didn't like it. They're all from people who like (or sell) another brand. I just wish that those people would stick to talking to me about the brand they support (instead of trying to stop me from considering a brand they don't support). See where I'm coming from?
I realize this is a big purchasing decision, but in the end, I really don't think I'm going to be up a creek no matter what spa I choose. Even if it ends up being the Phoenix (which I have to be honest, only keeps coming up so much because people keep on bashing it and I thought it was kind of nice).
I'm sorry if seeing pictures of a product made to be stored outside actually sitting outside doesn't scare me....but a hot tub is just a giant plastic bowl no matter who makes it. I'm ultimately going to buy the one that's the most comfortable one I can find that's closest to the price I want to pay. Right now, I'm looking around to narrow those choices WAY down....but the ONLY thing that will take something I like off my list is getting into it and realizing I hate it. That's what the wet testing is for, right?
If the Phoenix ends up feeling 10 times better to me, I don't care if it was made in the middle of that swamp Yoda lives in, I'll buy one. Same goes with Hot Springs, Arctic or any of those other brands on my growing list.
That's my big disclaimer. So why am I even posting here looking for help? Simple. I'm looking for people's opinions on what they like. If you've actually tried something out and you think I should give it a look....let me know and I'll take a look a it. I'm listening. Marquis was not a brand that was originally on my radar, but it is now thanks to this thread. Believe it or not, I didn't visit a Jacuzzi dealer and REALLY look until someone here reminded me. Your assistance is helping me.
If you're an owner or a dealer and there's some feature about your tub of choice you think I should know about....tell me! I'm open to listening to people who might be considered "biased" too....so long as they're telling me why theirs is good.
All I want to remind people is that if you're trying to convince me NOT to buy something, I'm listening...but you're probably not going to have much luck. I'm doing my own research and while additions to that research are welcome, I'm the only one making subtractions. No one gets to take something off my list unless it's me. ;)
-
Paraphrased from my spa owners manual:
"....an uncovered hot tub surface and wall fittings directly exposed to sunlight for an exetnded period is subject to permanant damage or discoloration....."
That factory is knowingly using methods that are damaging to their own products. Connect the dots. Could one assume that if they are doing this, then it's likely they are doing other things as well that are not so desirable? I'd pretty much assume so, just to protect myself.
I did look at Phoenix spas when I was shopping. The dealer was in a low rent mall, and the whole business gave me the creeps. How cool looking or how many jets a spa has are relatively meaningless. Having a quality product backed by a dealer who's likely to be there when you need service is way more important. Phonix just didn't project that image. And that dealer folded up and blew town within a year of my purchasing my spa. I tried, out of curiousity, to find a local dealer, and there isn't one anymore. Which makes it all the more difficult to get warranty service. Which I suspect is needed quite often on these sub grade tubs.
And I could care less what spa you buy. Just trying to open your eyes a bit wider. Makes no difference to me what you do or don't do or what you do or don't cross off your list.
There is a guy selling rebranded Phoenix spas out out of Colorado you might take a peek at. Cut out the middlemen, get the "guts" of a Phoenix spa with even better embellishments, like tinfoil and fan insulation, might be right up your alley.
-
Paraphrased from my spa owners manual:
"....an uncovered hot tub surface and wall fittings directly exposed to sunlight for an exetnded period is subject to permanant damage or discoloration....."
That factory is knowingly using methods that are damaging to their own products. Connect the dots. Could one assume that if they are doing this, then it's likely they are doing other things as well that are not so desirable? I'd pretty much assume so, just to protect myself.
I guess I'm just not as quick to make assumptions as some people are. Perhaps it's because I'm not a "glass half empty" kind of guy, but I'm not willing to rule something that I like out just because I hear a couple of stories or see some website some guy made 5 years ago. Even if someone told me the actual hot tub I was about to buy was stored outside for awhile while they were making it...I'm not sure if I'd be too worried about it. I live in Seattle. Weather tends to be a little more extreme here than the weather down in Texas. We get into the mid-90's and hot in the summer followed by freezing winters (many areas with snow). My last hot tub survived many years of that (my Dad's has made it through over 20 now)....so I don't neccessarily think a few days in the hot sunshine is a dealbreaker. If that's even still happening.
I did look at Phoenix spas when I was shopping. The dealer was in a low rent mall, and the whole business gave me the creeps. How cool looking or how many jets a spa has are relatively meaningless. Having a quality product backed by a dealer who's likely to be there when you need service is way more important. Phonix just didn't project that image. And that dealer folded up and blew town within a year of my purchasing my spa. I tried, out of curiousity, to find a local dealer, and there isn't one anymore. Which makes it all the more difficult to get warranty service. Which I suspect is needed quite often on these sub grade tubs.
I'm sorry you had that experience. To contrast that, the Spa dealer that sells them in Seattle has been around forever, has their own dedicated service team and a good BBB rating (like all the other dealers I've been visiting). So none of those things you had happen to you are a factor for me. I havent' visited any low rent malls, just the bigger dealerships that came recommended by friends or websites I found.
And I could care less what spa you buy. Just trying to open your eyes a bit wider. Makes no difference to me what you do or don't do or what you do or don't cross off your list.
May I ask what model of spa you eventually settled upon? I ask, because that one is the one I'd like to hear about. You've probably owned it awhile...used it, drained it, bought new filters....and you probably know a lot more about it than some spa you almost bought back when you were shopping around. Your opinion on that one is much more valuable to someone like me who is looking around than your opinion on a spa you've never owned....wouldn't you agree?
There is a guy selling rebranded Phoenix spas out out of Colorado you might take a peek at. Cut out the middlemen, get the "guts" of a Phoenix spa with even better embellishments, like tinfoil and fan insulation, might be right up your alley.
I'm planning on staying local with my purchase, that way I can get service directly from the dealer I eventually buy it from. However....tinfoil? Fan insulation? Never even heard of that. Neither one sounds too appealing...but perhaps I'm just not understanding what it does.
-
I have had my Arctic Spa Frontier for just over a year now. We love it :). The spa has been trouble free.
We have had some smaller issues with the Arctic store in my city over some trouble with the cover and forever floor >:(.
Mechanically my spa has been outstanding in the harsh climate I live in. Right now it is -20 degree celcius. If you have any questions just ask.
-
Did you have another spa before it and do you find that there is a significant energy savings if so?
The Artic dealership had this sales pitch about how their filter can maintain the heat of the water.....but I'm not sure how exactly that's possible. They tried to explain it to me, but it seems to me you're either running the heater, or running the filter....either way you're using power.
-
Heres a few more of my pennies... What is the widget coming out on spas next year? I don't know either, but it can be installed in an Arctic Spa. I have done some form of upgrade (adding a stereo, ozone, 20 more jets/a third pump to power them. Its about 25% of the tubs I sold have had some form of upgrade. That number could be 20%
-
Did you have another spa before it and do you find that there is a significant energy savings if so?
The Artic dealership had this sales pitch about how their filter can maintain the heat of the water.....but I'm not sure how exactly that's possible. They tried to explain it to me, but it seems to me you're either running the heater, or running the filter....either way you're using power.
No, I did not own another hottub. In the Canadian climate I live in the winters run me about $40 a month to heat. Arctic gave me the same energy saving rant when I shopped there. I bought an Arctic because of the positive reputation they have amoung my coworkers. In the end all of the top end tubs will be very close in energy costs. Pick the tub that suits your needs and the dealer you have the most confidence in.
-
The Artic dealership had this sales pitch about how their filter can maintain the heat of the water.....but I'm not sure how exactly that's possible.
The pitch is that because of the way the tub is designed, heat generated by the running motors can help maintain the water temperature and reduce heater use. You'll probably find this discussed ad nauseum in the Dead Horse section.
-
I just read through that. It sounds like there's no good answers either way. I sort of figured that (whether you're running a motor or powering a heater, you're using juice) but it is an interesting concept.
-
In response to the Phoenix pictures, Josh says:
I get it though. In several people's opinions the Phoenix is a bad idea. I have noticed that none of these opinions are coming from people who owned one and got rid of it, or repaired them and think they're a hassle, or even sat in a friend's tub and didn't like it. They're all from people who like (or sell) another brand. I just wish that those people would stick to talking to me about the brand they support (instead of trying to stop me from considering a brand they don't support). See where I'm coming from?
I have to agree with Josh. It is a shame we don't have any Phoenix owners telling us their real world experiences with the product and with the company that makes it.
With that in mind I decided to do some research and see if I could find some sort of verifiable feed back.
I logged on to The Better Business Bureau of North East Calif and asked to see all hot tub retailers within 30 miles of Redding, Ca.
The search listed over 30 companies. I excluded those companies that were clearly "work at home", service, or pool and spa construction companies.
It left a list of 6 brick and mortar retailers that include Hot Spring Spa, Caldera, Sundance, Coleman, D1 & Phoenix spa.
In the past 36 months, there have been 18 BBB complaints generated from the customers of these Redding, Ca retailers.
16 of those 18 complaints are directed at Phoenix Spas.
I immediately thought that Phoenix Spas clearly had a disproportionate amount of complaints compared to the rest of the local Redding Hot Tub retailers. Then I realized that this might not be a fair comparison as the other local retailers are just that, local, while Phoenix is a national brand. Perhaps 16 complaints are proportionate to other major manufacturers.
I then compared Phoenix’s BBB report to those of Watkins Mfg (HSS, Caldera) and Sundance/Jacuzzi.
Without any verifiable data to support this, my conservative guess is that either of these companies, on a national level, sells at least 6 times the amount that Phoenix does.
My thinking was that if either company had approximately 6 times the amount of complaints, perhaps Phoenix was right in line with complaints vs. units sold.
Sundance’s BBB shows they have 31 complaints. If my 6X theory is true, then clearly this company has far less complaints to units sold then Phoenix.
The Watkins BBB report, however, is the real shocker. Regardless of the accuracy of my 6X theory, no one will contest that Watkins is a giant power house in the industry. This major player only had 13 complaints! With a total of 3 complaints less then Phoenix I am able to come to the conclusion that not only are the amount of complaints towards Phoenix Spas high, but the amount is disproportionate to the local Redding Hot Tub Retailers AND to the national brands as well.
Phoenix customers may not be speaking on this forum, but they do speak.
-
I have to agree with Josh. It is a shame we don't have any Phoenix owners telling us their real world experiences with the product and with the company that makes it.
With that in mind I decided to do some research and see if I could find some sort of verifiable feed back.
I logged on to The Better Business Bureau of North East Calif and asked to see all hot tub retailers within 30 miles of Redding, Ca.
The search listed over 30 companies. I excluded those companies that were clearly "work at home", service, or pool and spa construction companies.
It left a list of 6 brick and mortar retailers that include Hot Spring Spa, Caldera, Sundance, Coleman, D1 & Phoenix spa.
In the past 36 months, there have been 18 BBB complaints generated from the customers of these Redding, Ca retailers.
16 of those 18 complaints are directed at Phoenix Spas.
I immediately thought that Phoenix Spas clearly had a disproportionate amount of complaints compared to the rest of the local Redding Hot Tub retailers. Then I realized that this might not be a fair comparison as the other local retailers are just that, local, while Phoenix is a national brand. Perhaps 16 complaints are proportionate to other major manufacturers.
I then compared Phoenix’s BBB report to those of Watkins Mfg (HSS, Caldera) and Sundance/Jacuzzi.
Without any verifiable data to support this, my conservative guess is that either of these companies, on a national level, sells at least 6 times the amount that Phoenix does.
My thinking was that if either company had approximately 6 times the amount of complaints, perhaps Phoenix was right in line with complaints vs. units sold.
Sundance’s BBB shows they have 31 complaints. If my 6X theory is true, then clearly this company has far less complaints to units sold then Phoenix.
The Watkins BBB report, however, is the real shocker. Regardless of the accuracy of my 6X theory, no one will contest that Watkins is a giant power house in the industry. This major player only had 13 complaints! With a total of 3 complaints less then Phoenix I am able to come to the conclusion that not only are the amount of complaints towards Phoenix Spas high, but the amount is disproportionate to the local Redding Hot Tub Retailers AND to the national brands as well.
Phoenix customers may not be speaking on this forum, but they do speak.
Being a HS Vista owner..... this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.. ;)
-
Being a HS Vista owner..... this makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.. ;)
Being a searching shopper, that information would make me feel a little cautious about that brand....except that I don't live in Redding and I already did my own BBB search which turned up completely conflicting results from that story.
When I started the search, I did a BBB check for the local dealers myself...and saw that my local Phoenix dealer and the local Arctic dealer both have the same number of complaints. They were the first two stores I went to, and they're both in the single digits complaints-wise. The local Marquis Dealership also has a few complaints (I couldn't find info on the D1 place). Only Hot Springs, Jacuzzi and Sundance had no complaints at all. What that told me is that all the local dealers I'm visiting are rating pretty highly....which is a good thing.
Again...all factors I already took into account when starting my search.
I do find it strange that one of the members here (probably a dealer) has gone through the trouble of registering a brand new fake account just to bash Phoenix some more. I gotta say...all this petty badmouthing is doing is making me more interested in giving that company as much of a chance as I possibly can.
I was admittedly interested in them before....but all this bashing of their product has just amplified that interest, if only because I despise the petty tactics some dealers (on this board and in the showrooms I've visited) use against their competition.
These shady and juvenile tactics of slandering your competition instead of simply selling your own product are a very bad way to sell a product to a person like me who hates deception. All things being equal, I'm always prone to trust the person who doesn't employ that sort of sales method....because they're clearly a person of a higher moral integrity than their venom-filled competitors. I know a person with a higher moral integrity is going to be the kind of person who probably is less likely to lie during their sales pitch, and more likely to back up the products they sell the way they claim they will.
I said it in my original post, I've repeated it several times...but I'm only looking for info on the good features of brands I'm interested in. I'm NOT looking for a smear campaign against brands that dealers here are competing with. Clearly...some people here are not understanding that very simple request. I'm pretty much ignoring the input from those folks.
To the rest of you (owners and fellow shoppers)...continued thanks for your advice. I'm heading out to Marquis this afternoon, then Sundance and D1 later today....the last three brands represented locally that I need to check out. Next stop: Wet Testing everything on my growing list and narrowing it down to my top few.
-
Josh,
I too am a fellow shopper. I've wet tested 6 or 7 brands. I know nothing about Phoenix, so I promise I won't bash it. I will tell you that I think it's very wise that you're wet testing. And I personally am in the "You get what you pay for" camp. Therefore, I personally decided I would only buy from one of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers. I belong to this and another forum. I assume a lot of the posts are from company reps and dealers, and I factor that into how I analyze the posts. But even when someone is clearly with a certain company, they oftentimes will acknowledge who else makes great tubs. So, after reading for a few weeks/months, one can quickly decipher who makes the best tubs and has the best reputation. My advice -- stick to one of the very well made tubs that everyone concedes is in the top 5 (or 10) manufacturers, and you'll be happier in the long run. It's admirable, I suppose, that you're thinking about giving an underdog a chance, but it's a big investment. I personally would rather reward the manufacturer that did all the R & D and put alot of effort into good customer service. Just my opinion. I'll sit down now. :)
-
I said it in my original post, I've repeated it several times...but I'm only looking for info on the good features of brands I'm interested in. I'm NOT looking for a smear campaign against brands that dealers here are competing with. Clearly...some people here are not understanding that very simple request. I'm pretty much ignoring the input from those folks.
I think part of it may be that the posters don't feel they are smearing but feel they are providing a requested opinion and/or information. You've seen what other people have said about some of the options you've noted and its up to you to take and do with that what you wish but don't blame the messengers, you came here to get opinions (and facts too but much of this is subjective).
You are obviously spending some time searching and if that leads you to Phoenix then you should by all means wet test the Phoenix along with the Arctic, Hot Spring, D1, Sundance and Marquis (and any others in your area that you feel are worthy). If in the end you like the Phoenix spa and the dealer more than any of the others then you should do what you feel is best for you.
-
I'm not a dealer, just an owner, and have only owned one brand (my Arctic) but while I was shopping I looked at a LOT of tubs, and seeing so many in a short time made it a bit easier for me to directly compare what seemed quality TO ME and what did not.
I looked at Arctic, Artesian, HS/TigerRiver, D1, Coleman, LA, Caldera, Ca Spa, Marquis, Catalina, Emerald and United. Jaccuzi and Sundance were not in my area. When I later saw the Phoenix spas, I was no longer in the market, but wandering through the store, touching buttons, looking at the cabinets, feeling the articulation of the jets- the Phoenix spas felt CHEAP. A step above United. Barely. I may just be really picky, but when craftsmanship LOOKS shoddy, I'm often going to assume that it IS.
It is unfortunate that you cannot get an opinion on Phoenix from someone who owns one here, but maybe there is a reason for that.
Will the Phoenix dealer give you a list of previous customers to contact?
Regardless, wet test- let that be your biggest guide.
-
I think Phoenix’s relationship with someone skews our opinions of that brand. At least it does for me.
However, any person in the spa business will tell you the single worst thing one can do to the shell is keep it outside unprotected without water. Phoenix apparently does this with their spas.
In my opinion, you are in a different league when comparing a Phoenix spa to a Hotspring or an Artic. Again that is just my opinion.
-
Josh,
I too am a fellow shopper. I've wet tested 6 or 7 brands. I know nothing about Phoenix, so I promise I won't bash it. I will tell you that I think it's very wise that you're wet testing. And I personally am in the "You get what you pay for" camp. Therefore, I personally decided I would only buy from one of the top 5 or 6 manufacturers. I belong to this and another forum. I assume a lot of the posts are from company reps and dealers, and I factor that into how I analyze the posts. But even when someone is clearly with a certain company, they oftentimes will acknowledge who else makes great tubs. So, after reading for a few weeks/months, one can quickly decipher who makes the best tubs and has the best reputation. My advice -- stick to one of the very well made tubs that everyone concedes is in the top 5 (or 10) manufacturers, and you'll be happier in the long run. It's admirable, I suppose, that you're thinking about giving an underdog a chance, but it's a big investment. I personally would rather reward the manufacturer that did all the R & D and put alot of effort into good customer service. Just my opinion. I'll sit down now. :)
Sound advice, and rest assured, I'm doing just that. Today, I went out to D1 and Marquis (both of which were recommended by members of these boards). Neither brand was something I looked at before, but both of them got put on my list simply because someone here recommended them.
D1 looked really good and the dealer was very helpful. They were a bit on the pricey side, but I'm not letting price be the number 1 factor in my search. I realize this is a long term purchase and I plan to buy a hot tub I think is the best, not just the one that's biggest bargain.
Marquis...not so much. The floor model was broken and the seating configuration didn't look as good in person as it did on the internet anyway. Don't think I'll even wet test it.
-
Being a searching shopper, that information would make me feel a little cautious about that brand....except that I don't live in Redding and I already did my own BBB search which turned up completely conflicting results from that story.
When I started the search, I did a BBB check for the local dealers myself...and saw that my local Phoenix dealer and the local Arctic dealer both have the same number of complaints. They were the first two stores I went to, and they're both in the single digits complaints-wise. The local Marquis Dealership also has a few complaints (I couldn't find info on the D1 place). Only Hot Springs, Jacuzzi and Sundance had no complaints at all. What that told me is that all the local dealers I'm visiting are rating pretty highly....which is a good thing.
Again...all factors I already took into account when starting my search.
I do find it strange that one of the members here (probably a dealer) has gone through the trouble of registering a brand new fake account just to bash Phoenix some more. I gotta say...all this petty badmouthing is doing is making me more interested in giving that company as much of a chance as I possibly can.
I was admittedly interested in them before....but all this bashing of their product has just amplified that interest, if only because I despise the petty tactics some dealers (on this board and in the showrooms I've visited) use against their competition.
These shady and juvenile tactics of slandering your competition instead of simply selling your own product are a very bad way to sell a product to a person like me who hates deception. All things being equal, I'm always prone to trust the person who doesn't employ that sort of sales method....because they're clearly a person of a higher moral integrity than their venom-filled competitors. I know a person with a higher moral integrity is going to be the kind of person who probably is less likely to lie during their sales pitch, and more likely to back up the products they sell the way they claim they will.
I said it in my original post, I've repeated it several times...but I'm only looking for info on the good features of brands I'm interested in. I'm NOT looking for a smear campaign against brands that dealers here are competing with. Clearly...some people here are not understanding that very simple request. I'm pretty much ignoring the input from those folks.
To the rest of you (owners and fellow shoppers)...continued thanks for your advice. I'm heading out to Marquis this afternoon, then Sundance and D1 later today....the last three brands represented locally that I need to check out. Next stop: Wet Testing everything on my growing list and narrowing it down to my top few.
Josh,
With all due respect,
You come to this forum, filled with hot tub owners, shoppers, dealers, spokespeople, and sales people, and say that you are "Looking for some real world thoughts".
In response, you are given some "real world thoughts" from the hot tub owners, shoppers, dealers, spokespeople, and sales people the forum.
Then you complain about it.
If you don’t want these thoughts, don’t ask for them.
In reference to Phoenix you stated “I have noticed that none of these opinions are coming from people who owned one and got rid of it, or repaired them and think they're a hassle, or even sat in a friend's tub and didn't like it.”
I am not a Phoenix owner and can not state an opinion as such. It was very easy, however, to locate a source for some “real world thoughts” in the form of complaints from, in this case, 16 Phoenix Owners.
The source is the BBB. Simply repeat the research as I have and you’ll have to agree that it is not bashing, petty bad mouthing, shady and juvenile tactics, slander, deception, venom-filled, or a lie. (WOW! Shades of you know who when I read that)
It is rather simply reporting what is on the BBB web site.
Further analysis of those complaints show that, according to the BBB, Phoenix had tried & was able to satisfy some of the clients while some of the clients remained dissatisfied.
According to the BBB, Sundance was able to satisfy all but one of the 31 clients who had complained.
Watkins was able to resolve all of the 13 customers who complained to the BBB, based upon information posted on the BBB web site.
Any data that I have posted here I can support through 3rd part verification. When I stated something that I could not verify, I was very clear that it was just my thoughts and opinion.
Josh, you have the right, reason and ability to place value, or not, on this or any information you read here. This is your purchase, your home, and your hard earned money and your investment, not mine. If Phoenix is the one for you, please, enjoy it.
You’ve asked for things to be all positive & I’ll leave you this.
I’d buy a Phoenix because you can buy them directly from the manufacturer in Redding for dirt, dirt cheap compared to other brands.
You might want to rent a truck and make the trip and buy it in Calif.
-
I think part of it may be that the posters don't feel they are smearing but feel they are providing a requested opinion and/or information. You've seen what other people have said about some of the options you've noted and its up to you to take and do with that what you wish but don't blame the messengers, you came here to get opinions (and facts too but much of this is subjective).
The problem is, I very specifically spelled out that what I'm not looking for. I've specifically said that I don't need any advice on what NOT to buy. I've said that probably half a dozen times now and there are still some people on this board that insist on throwing their 2 cents in anyway.
The most annoying thing about my hot tub search so far is that I keep meeting up with these sleezy salesmen that want to give me a horror story about a competing brand. I've heard at least one about each brand I'm considering...and frankly, I'm tired of it.
Folks, EVERY dealer claims they have the best warranty. EVERY dealer claims they have the best product. EVERY dealer has claimed they use the best materials (or hold more patents), or that their tub is the most comfortable and theraputic....etc, etc. Every dealer claims to have the best filtering, the best jets, and every dealer claims that their cabinet is built the best too.
You don't have to be an rocket scientist to figure out that they're all full of it. Even if they believe their own stupid BS, logic states they can't all be right. That's just not possible. So....instead of hearing why the other guys suck, I just want to focus on why each person thinks a certain brand is good.
I really don't think that's a lot to ask for.
You are obviously spending some time searching and if that leads you to Phoenix then you should by all means wet test the Phoenix along with the Arctic, Hot Spring, D1, Sundance and Marquis (and any others in your area that you feel are worthy). If in the end you like the Phoenix spa and the dealer more than any of the others then you should do what you feel is best for you.
It's been a couple of weeks now and I've visited more than a dozen stores. I've listened to all their pitches, collected all their brochures, researched online, checked the BBB, asked friends and family and now I'm using that combination of factors to decide which ones to narrow it down to.
Right now, here are the brands I'm leaning towards, in alphabetical order:
Arctic
D1
Hot Springs
Jacuzzi
LA Spas
Phoenix
Sundance
I've crossed a few off my list after seeing the models in the store, and I'm sure I'll cross a few more off after I wet test them. What I absolutely won't do is let some biased brand-loyal dealer or internet forum member (or both) tell me what I shouldn't buy based on their own personal agendas.
-
I'm not a dealer, just an owner, and have only owned one brand (my Arctic) but while I was shopping I looked at a LOT of tubs, and seeing so many in a short time made it a bit easier for me to directly compare what seemed quality TO ME and what did not.
I looked at Arctic, Artesian, HS/TigerRiver, D1, Coleman, LA, Caldera, Ca Spa, Marquis, Catalina, Emerald and United. Jaccuzi and Sundance were not in my area. When I later saw the Phoenix spas, I was no longer in the market, but wandering through the store, touching buttons, looking at the cabinets, feeling the articulation of the jets- the Phoenix spas felt CHEAP. A step above United. Barely. I may just be really picky, but when craftsmanship LOOKS shoddy, I'm often going to assume that it IS.
It is unfortunate that you cannot get an opinion on Phoenix from someone who owns one here, but maybe there is a reason for that.
Will the Phoenix dealer give you a list of previous customers to contact?
Regardless, wet test- let that be your biggest guide.
Anne,
I'm looking at Arctic too. They're in my list of the last few contenders I've narrowed down and on my very short list of spas I'll be wet testing. I'm going to try to do it all in one day, and that way I'll have a really fresh comparison reference when I do it.
I wonder if anyone would give me a list of their customers to call. I've never heard of any business doing that, and I'd hate it if I bought something and had people calling my house to ask me if I liked it or not all the time. On the other hand....as a customer, I'd love it if I could say "Hey...give me your customer data so I can pick their brains". :)
-
I think Phoenix’s relationship with someone skews our opinions of that brand. At least it does for me.
What was it about their relationship with you that skewed your opinion?
Josh,
With all due respect,
You come to this forum, filled with hot tub owners, shoppers, dealers, spokespeople, and sales people, and say that you are "Looking for some real world thoughts".
In response, you are given some "real world thoughts" from the hot tub owners, shoppers, dealers, spokespeople, and sales people the forum.
Then you complain about it.
If you don’t want these thoughts, don’t ask for them.
I'm not complaining about the real world thoughts I actually asked for.
However, had you read my original post "Numbersdon'tlie" or whatever your real name on these boards is (hiding behind a fake account is about the dumbest thing you can do on a message board if you want anyone to take you seriously)....you'd see that I specifically said I was NOT looking for horror stories.
I think the fact that you took the time to create a fake account, just so you could post yet another horror story about your competition (after I've said a bunch of times that I'm really not interested in them) is just stupid. I have nothing but contempt for the dealers that act this way.
Now, if you'd like to log back into your regular account and tell me why I should buy the particular brand of hot tub that you happen to represent, that's just fine. I'm all ears. I'm definitely interested in those sorts of opinions and facts. That kind of stuff can be very helpful to someone like me who's shopping around. So far...people's positive recommendations of hot tubs have caused me to consider a few brands that weren't even on my radar.
That's really what this thread is all about.
-
Josh:
Sit in a Hot Spring Envoy (lounger) or a Grandee (no lounger).
If your butt fits, buy it.
I did
I love it
It's easy to maintain
It's well build
It has flashy lights, a fountain and a stereo with transducer speakers
It has a floating remote (which, truthfully, I'm not crazy about)
This customer gives the tub a ***** (five star) rating!
If it wet tests well, you will never regret a Hot Spring.
Rich
-
Thanks for the tips.
I am headed there tomorrow morning. We're expecting snow in Seattle, so they may be both the first and last tub I wet test tomorrow AM. :)
-
What was it about their relationship with you that skewed your opinion?
I don't have a relationship with Phoenix Spas. I am stating that Phoenix has a relationship with a certain "Specialist" that turns me off. Due to this relationship, it makes me (and others) feel that Phoenix is a not so reputable company.
However, my thoughts are if Phoenix gets in bed with this "Specialist" I can only imagine the type of other dealers they have signed up. I can't imagine it would be a good thing.
-
I don't have a relationship with Phoenix Spas. I am stating that Phoenix has a relationship with a certain "Specialist" that turns me off. Due to this relationship, it makes me (and others) feel that Phoenix is a not so reputable company.
However, my thoughts are if Phoenix gets in bed with this "Specialist" I can only imagine the type of other dealers they have signed up. I can't imagine it would be a good thing.
I guess I'm too new here to understand what you're talking about. I assume from your clues that you are referring to the guy in that 75 page topic about the "Real Spa Specialist" in the Beating a Dead Horse section of these forums. Should I read the topic? Is it about Phoenix spas, or was the guy just a jerk or something?
-
I guess I'm too new here to understand what you're talking about. I assume from your clues that you are referring to the guy in that 75 page topic about the "Real Spa Specialist" in the Beating a Dead Horse section of these forums. Should I read the topic? Is it about Phoenix spas, or was the guy just a jerk or something?
No, you should not read that topic unless you have a good 2 hours to read it. I have better things to do.
It relates to the ethics of the company. If they sell to someone that is, in most peoples minds, dishonest or a variation of dishonest, what other types of dealers are they utilizing to support their product. Ask any person in the industry, everyone knows that Hotspring is a reputable manufacturer and generally has reputable dealers. I can't say that about Phoenix and it is primarily due to their most famous dealer.
-
Seems to me, that most people have not promoted only the brand they sell. Even the salespeople here on the forum have given you a number of brands that are good quality. There seems to be a consensus out there that one of the brands on your list is not a quality spa while others are. I can't see why that is considered bashing.
I chimed in pretty early on this post. I gave you a number of brands that I believe are the top brands out there. I also told you that I didn't think Phoenix was among the top brands, rather a somewhat disreputable brand. I have based that on over 20 years in the pool/spa industry. I do not work for a hot tub company, but know many people in and around the business, so I have an unbiased perspective in that regard. I do own a Hot Spring Vanguard. I can say that I own a Hot Spring because I believe it to be one of the best brands out there -again based on the time in the industry.
You seem to like Phoenix because of features. While features are nice, they are not everything. Even features can be poorly built. Mercedes had some of the same features as Yugo. Just because Yugo had an engine and brakes doesn't mean they were built of the same quality. The same goes in this industry.
As stated before, you asked for opinions, real world opinions, and were given them. Now, it seems that since they weren't of the tenor you were looking for, or the answers you were looking for, you are upset at people that don't like Phoenix.
From what I have read on this string, consumers and salespeople alike are just trying to help you make a good decision.
-
As stated before, you asked for opinions, real world opinions, and were given them. Now, it seems that since they weren't of the tenor you were looking for, or the answers you were looking for, you are upset at people that don't like Phoenix.
Sigh. It has nothing to do with Phoenix. I really don't know how else to explain it. I thought I'd already re-clarified the intent behind this topic in the most simple terms possible....but perhaps I'm still being somewhat vague.
Let me try yet again:
I'm extremely interested in hearing about what people here like. Whether they own it, they've looked at it, or they sell it....I'm looking for all the first hand opinions and information I can get on brands I should take a look at. That kind of information is valuable to me, because it will help point me in the right direction.
I have no interest in hearing about what people here don't like....or hearing their opinions on what I should stay away from.
Why?
Simply because I've heard enough horror stories and dis-information while shopping around locally to last me a lifetime and the last thing I need is more of it from this website. I realize that some people here are just trying to help me by pointing out that they think this brand sucks, or that brand sucks.....but you have to understand that all the dealers I've been to have already told me that same crap.
Hearing everyone's negative opinions has been the most annoying thing about hunting for a hot tub....because I've heard more negative than I have heard positive. Now...if people wanted to point me to a new dealer that wasn't on my list....or maybe tell me some awesome things about their tub of choice (something I might not have heard yet)....that's the kind of advice I'm looking for.
Is that really too much to ask for?
In other related news....my list is narrowed even further after some extensive wet testing. I wet tested just about a dozen different tubs today, and I've crossed a bunch of brands off the list. I'll post a summary later (I took a digital recorder with me to capture my thoughts after I got out of every single one). It also snowed here in Seattle today and I wish I could use the tub I actually have, but it's busted.
-
Well folks....here are the results of today's extensive wet testing. I started out at Hot Springs, then made my way to Sundance spas, Jacuzzi (where I tried two models), LA Spas (tried 2 different ones there) then Arctic and finally Phoenix. At each stop, I tested as many models as they had wet (that I was interested in) and then I sat dry in similar models just to get another feel for things after I'd sampled their jets. Overall...I wet tested 8 different tubs and sat again in another 4 or 5 on top of that (once you know how the jets work, it's easier to imagine how they'll work in the dry tubs). After each wet test, I'd go out to my car and speak all of my thoughts into a digital recorder I brought with me. This way, I never got confused or forgot any of the things I liked or disliked about each tub.
You'll notice that I tested several brands recommended by users here and that I also managed to eliminate several models from my search today. I'm over halfway done and while I could probably pick just based on today's wet testing, I'm taking this search pretty seriously and I've still got a few more stops to do next week before I decide.
Wet Testing was by far the best advice anyone could have ever given me. While I may have been happy with many of my choices before testing them, now that I've been able to compare, I've learned what I like and I can shop specifically for it now. From this point on, I'm judging strictly on how good the tub actually feels to me. Everything else is a secondary factor as far as I'm concerned.
First stop was Hot Springs. I loved the up and down massaging jets in their lounge, but most of the other seats were just too short for me. I also found that the jets were great when you're concentrating all the power to one seat, but as soon as you start sharing with other seats.....they get really weak. Since I go in the tub more with other people than without them, this would end up really bugging me when I didn't get my first pick of seat. Also...I didn't like that you couldn't turn the foot jets on the lounge up to full blast without sacrificing some of the force behind you (not to mention in the seats next to you). Simultaneous back and feet jets are the whole point of lying down in a lounge, I thought. Last, and most importantly....I'm a tall guy and found that my shoulders stuck out of their tub in all but a couple of the seats. I don't mind a cool down seat or two...but in these tubs, there were essentially four cool downs for a guy my size. As well made as they may be and as nice as the sales guy was to me, I'm going to have to leave these fairly comfortable tubs for the shorter folks out there and move on to the next brand.
Sundance is still in the running with the Cameo. When I got in, I immediately noticed they had a nicer lounge with much better jets than the Hot Springs spas (which I had just come from). I also thought more of the non-lounge seats were quite comfortable than the one I'd just been in. You can really stick your feet out. Again...this is important to me since I'm 6'4".
There are a couple of deeper seats besides the lounge seat and I really liked their foot jets. Very good little tub, but I saw some today that I liked better. Still...if I decide to bargain shop, this one is staying on my list because it'll be in the lower price range and it's a perfectly good tub for what they're asking.
To be continued in the next post....
-
Next up was a Jacuzzi store. I crossed the Jacuzzi 480 off my list today. The lounge was the least comfortable lounge seat of the day, and my feet stuck over the edges of the foot jets (rendering them useless to me). The Jacuzzi 470 is still in the running as a very comfortable non-lounger, but it's also one of the most expensive tubs I looked at today (and I found better non-loungers for the money). I liked it, so I'm not eliminating it....but I'd have to get a huge discount on it to pick it over the next spa I sat in.
After grabbing a quick bite, I voyaged to LA Spas which was the surprise of the day. These guys were only an also ran when I first visited the showrooms, but they turned out to be awesome. The lounge seat in the Heet was my favorite lounge of the day and the jets were just amazingly versatile and powerful. They also have these optional neck and shoulder jets (which I would definitely want installed) that are each independently controlled and I found that when you combine them with the back and feet jets, it's even better than the lounge chairs (which it also had). Their air bubblers were particularly powerful and I actually liked the way they felt with no jets on at all. The Heet came with two of the neck and shoulder jet bucket seats, but one of those made it uncomfortable for me. I'd have to custom order the tub without that particular feature (or have one seat for short friends that I'd never sit in). I think I'd customize it. ;)
I also tested the LA Spas Concord, which had no lounge, but had two of those Neck and Shoulders seats that were plenty deep enough for me. It also had two deep buckets, plus a bench and a regular seat or two. Great Party tub. Of the non-lounge tubs, this was by far the best I found today. Both of these were deep enough for me, they both had the options like lights and waterfalls that I think are cool add-ons....so these have moved way up my list to become top contenders.
Next stop was Arctic, where I tested out the Klondiker. This was the stop where I learned first hand that the number of jets really doesn't mean everything. Even though this tub had the most jets of any of the ones on my search list, it was the least comfortable of all the tubs I tested today. One of the bucket seats actually hurt my lower back to sit in it for some reason and it was too shallow in all but two of the other seats. The air bubbler in this one was indeed nice, as were the foot jets. Problem was, they were only accessible from the most uncomfortable seat in the tub for me. Despite all the jets they packed into this thing, the lounge just wasn't nearly as comfortable as the Sundance, The LA Spas, the Hot Springs or the Phoenix lounge. Only reason it beat out the Jacuzzi was because it was tall enough for me.....but this was an easy one to cross off my list.
Last store was the ever dreaded Phoenix, which I wasn't sure I'd make it to because of the snow that started getting really bad shortly before I hit Arctic. I decided to chance it and drove there to try out the Coronado which was the one they had filled up and ready to go. The salesman had told me it would feel a little smaller tub than the one I am actually interested in, and he was right. Still, the seats were still surprisingly comfortable. Their tub also features neck and shoulder jets and while they aren't as nice as the ones at LA Spas, I liked them. The lounge was really good...but it was too short for me on this model. The lounge in their Sorrento is the right size (I got in dry), but they didn't have it filled up for wet testing, so they're going to fill it for me and I'm going to try that later in the week.
I also still want to try the D1 Chairman 2, but the D1 dealership didn't have it filled and they're not open tomorrow...so that'll have to be during the week sometime too. I have high hopes for this one. Once I've tried that and the Phoenix Sorrento, I think I'll be narrowing it down to the top few and picking one.
It should be noted that I ruled out Marquis after a visit to their showroom yesterday, and Dynasty is just a little too far away for both testing and regular service calls.
That's it! Did I miss anything? Any great brands that I need to check out still? Let me know....
-
Josh, what Hot Spring model did you test? I'm sure the models with the lounger allow the DX moto and the foot-jets to operate at the same time--Envoy, Vista, Aria. Maybe you were operating the spa incorrectly?
The Envoy might be a little short for you but the Vista should work. If you don't like the lounger the Grandee should fit you. Did you wet test the Grandee? That would be a great spa if you have guests. Good luck....
-
The jets did operate at the same time, they just weren't as strong when operated together as when operated separately, and I didn't like that very much. And yes, the Vista was the one I wanted from there.
I didn't wet test the Grandee because it wasn't filled and I'm leaning towards the lounger models anyway.
I've heard they're a good company and all (and I know there are a bunch of employees here on the forums)...these just didn't feel perfect to me, especially after wet testing so many more that felt so much better...so I had to cross em off. For what it's worth, I thought they were better than Arctic spas...and the salesman at Hot Springs is a really nice guy..
-
The jets did operate at the same time, they just weren't as strong when operated together as when operated separately, and I didn't like that very much. And yes, the Vista was the one I wanted from there.
I didn't wet test the Grandee because it wasn't filled and I'm leaning towards the lounger models anyway.
I've heard they're a good company and all (and I know there are a bunch of employees here on the forums)...these just didn't feel perfect to me, especially after wet testing so many more that felt so much better...so I had to cross em off. For what it's worth, I thought they were better than Arctic spas...and the salesman at Hot Springs is a really nice guy..
Josh, that's why you want to wet test. Most folks don't do this. Can you imagine spending 10K on a spa and being disappointed when you bring it home.
Anyway, I'm thinking perhaps you had the HS diverter valve turned only half way on the footjets. The DX Moto Massage and the footjets are designed to operate full power together. They are operated by two separate pumps. At least they are with my Envoy. No big deal.
If you want to stick with a lounger you should also try the Caldera Geneva. It should be large enough for you and the jets are stronger than the HS models. Good luck....
-
Josh, that's why you want to wet test. Most folks don't do this. Can you imagine spending 10K on a spa and being disappointed when you bring it home.
Not anymore I can't. I could have before I started doing my research. I figured I'd just shop around online...find the consensus on the best ones and then buy the one that looked right for me. Turned out there was no consensus, the looks were very deceiving and sevreal of the tubs I thought I'd end up liking were pretty darn uncomfortable to me compared to others I wasn't even strongly considering.
In the future, if I ever give advice....it's going to be three words: Wet Test Everything.
Everything else is subjective.
Anyway, I'm thinking perhaps you had the HS diverter valve turned only half way on the footjets. The DX Moto Massage and the footjets are designed to operate full power together. They are operated by two separate pumps. At least they are with my Envoy. No big deal.
If you want to stick with a lounger you should also try the Caldera Geneva. It should be large enough for you and the jets are stronger than the HS models. Good luck....
I had the salespeople at each store run all the jets for me (all I did is sit there and let them show me stuff, and at the Hot Springs place, the guy seemed pretty darn knowledgeable, so I'm pretty sure we were getting the best out of that tub as was possible. Even if the jets had been stronger, the mold simply wasn't the one that felt right to me (more short seats than deep ones). I'm sure that doesn't matter for the majority of people, but I'm 6'4" so even a couple of inches of depth ends up making a real difference for me.
I actually visited Caldera on my first day of shopping. I remember I didn't go back because their spas didn't look as nice as others I saw that day. Perhaps knowing what I know now, it's time for another visit. There's a dealership really close by so it can't hurt. Thanks for the tip. I'll see if they have a Geneva.
-
Gombo, it's weird you should say that. I have no technical knowledge from the 2 Watkins companies, but HS jets felt significantly stronger to me than Caldera. I didn't test them the same day, but that's the way it felt to me. My wife and I, in fact, crossed Caldera off -- thinking it was too light of a therapy -- whereas we both liked HS. Hmm. :-?
-
Josh, do you have a Marquis dealer in your area? I would give the Epic a try. It's one of the best Therapy spas out there. Maybe you will wet test every brand before you are done. :)
Just remember, sometimes you can get Paralysis by Analysis. You'll find the right one. Good luck.
-
Just remember, sometimes you can get Paralysis by Analysis. You'll find the right one. Good luck.
Tell me about it. After yesterday, I was really worn out by the end of the night. While I'm really glad I did a bunch in a row (helped me with my comparisons) I have to admit that if I hadn't brought that digital recorder with me...I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have remembered all the different things I liked and disliked about each tub by the end of the night.
Quite a few stood out, but several of the ones I didn't like as much really blended together. Because I took really good notes, I was able to remember which of the "also-rans" were good and in exactly which way.
Testing so many back to back also helped me eliminate other brands completely, because I started stack-ranking the choices during the day. I'd use a generic scale for how good they felt to me, and then grade them all on the curve. When I realized that I had 3 or 4 choices that were already standing out as better than one I had already tested....I could immediately cross it off. Ultimately, I want to narrow it down to my top 2 or 3, then do one more wet test and pick a winner.
As for Marquis, I did take a look at an Epic on Friday, but I wasn't inspired to go back and wet test there (and I definitely wouldn't want to become a customer of that place). I mostly blame the dealership for that one. Without going in to grand detail, the experience there was lacking at best. I'm pretty sure that was exclusive to the store in my area, but it is what it is.
-
Parrothead, I'm surprised you thought that about Caldera. I'm wondering if someone had manually turned down some of the jets??? (That happened in my first wet test) because the jets were the strongest I felt in any tub. (i can't even use them today, I am sore!)
-
Parrothead, I'm surprised you thought that about Caldera. I'm wondering if someone had manually turned down some of the jets??? (That happened in my first wet test) because the jets were the strongest I felt in any tub. (i can't even use them today, I am sore!)
What different brands did you test? Did you rank them in a thread somewhere?
-
Sounds like you are really doing your homework, Josh.
Another thing that might help with your decision making might be what I call the “I can’t get wet because my hot tub doesn’t work” test.
At 9:05 am on a Monday morn, simply call each potential dealers service department and ask a few questions. I’d look for the following when calling:
Is the line busy?
Do you speak with a human or machine?
Are you put on hold?
Is the person you are speaking with genuinely concerned about your issues?
Are you asked to leave a massage and asked to wait for a call back?
If so, how long before you are called back?
How far out are you scheduled for a service call?
Are you given a specific service appointment time or asked to wait over a full day or half day range of time for an appointment?
Do the service techs carry a decent amount of parts with them or will this be a 2 part repair process? (1st part to diagnose and order parts, 2nd part to re-schedule & return to tub and complete repair)
The unfortunate nature of the spa industry is that when you mix water, heat, moving parts and human factor into a hot tub, its not a matter of IF you’ll need service but WHEN you’ll need it.
For me, the ability and willingness of a dealer to provide timely service after the sale is just as important as the physical comfort of the spa and my confidence in the manufacturer that makes it.
A question Josh,
You mention that Dynasty is too far away to for testing and service but that you did wet test a Phoenix.
Isn’t Black Pine Spas the dealer for both brands in Seattle? (According to Black Pines web www.blackpinespas.com they are however, maybe that info is out dated)
The Phoenix web phoenixspas.com site does not show their dealers and asks you to call Redding, Ca to find out who your local dealer is. (I called and their showroom is closed on the weekends)
Are there multiple dealers for Phoenix in Seattle?
-
All of the brands I tested were in my thread "Starting the Search" at the bottom of the first page.
-
A question Josh,
You mention that Dynasty is too far away to for testing and service but that you did wet test a Phoenix.
Isn’t Black Pine Spas the dealer for both brands in Seattle? (According to Black Pines web www.blackpinespas.com they are however, maybe that info is out dated)
I think Black Pine only sells Artesian and Phoenix now (I didn't like the Artesians btw). Dynasty spas are sold south of me now, in Tacoma....which is pretty far away. All of the dealers I hit were within 20 miles or so at the most.
I guess it's good living in Seattle....huge market with lots of competition all concentrated in a relatively small area.
-
All of the brands I tested were in my thread "Starting the Search" at the bottom of the first page.
I just read through every page of it....also noticed the choices searchinginfl was picking between. It's good to see we had/have a bunch of common choices.
I hope to be setting my new tub up soon too.
-
Next stop was Arctic, where I tested out the Klondiker... it was the least comfortable of all the tubs I tested today. One of the bucket seats actually hurt my lower back to sit in it for some reason and it was too shallow in all but two of the other seats. The air bubbler in this one was indeed nice, as were the foot jets. Problem was, they were only accessible from the most uncomfortable seat in the tub for me....the lounge just wasn't comfortable ... an easy one to cross off my list.
Sounds like you tested the Legend Extreme or Special Edition. We try hard to have a seat for everyone, and we're sorry the Klondiker didn't quite fit you.
Happy shopping.
-
Tom,
That was indeed the model I checked. As you can see by my original thread title (and the first post in this topic) the Arctic was on the top of my list when I started out. It's certainly one of the most uniquely laid out tubs I looked at. I think that and the huge number of jets it had were why I was so interested in it. The problem was, it was just contoured a bit wrong for someone my height, but I can see why other people really like them.
-
I think Arctic's contoured seats are a love it or hate it sort of thing. I am a huge fan, but I'm a pretty small person, so I dont feel cramped, and yet I also feel like I'm not just going to slide all over the place. I have a 6'4" friend who was really only comfy in one seat.
It just comes down to wet testing.....even though we all *hear* that here, if we do our research, we dont really GET how important it is until we try it. :)
-
It just comes down to wet testing.....even though we all *hear* that here, if we do our research, we dont really GET how important it is until we try it. :)
AMEN!!!
The Doob
-
I think Arctic's contoured seats are a love it or hate it sort of thing. I am a huge fan, but I'm a pretty small person, so I dont feel cramped, and yet I also feel like I'm not just going to slide all over the place. I have a 6'4" friend who was really only comfy in one seat.
It just comes down to wet testing.....even though we all *hear* that here, if we do our research, we dont really GET how important it is until we try it. :)
Out of curiousity, which Arctic Model did you purchase? I tried out the Klondiker and my other choice was the Frontier. I didn't have the opportunity to try that one because there wasn't one in the store, but they offered me that one at a much better price. I recognized it as a real quality soak, but I am specifically shopping for myself (my wife isn't a huge hot tub fan) so I want the majority of seats to feel good for my height.
Tomorrow is what may be my last wet test (the Phoenix Sorrento) before I can pick one to purchase. This particular tub was the only one from my original list that I haven't tried yet.....and although I know many people here hate the brand, I want to give them a fair shake (I'll admit, the bias around here has aroused my curiousity).
After that test, I can sort out everything I've tested and make my purchasing decision between the top few.
Someone here suggested I add Cal Spas to my list.....does anyone else here have one of those? I saw one with a TV bigger than the one in my living room in it (an option I would probably leave off). Haven't tried one though....
-
As an Arctic dealer I try to get everyone to wet test. After a test between the Klondiker and Kodiak. Most pick the Kodiak (one lounger) and much more comfortable. I agree with you I'm not a fan of the Klondiker. If you want to give Arctic another try, the Kodiak would work well. Don't try the Frontier your too tall for that spa.
-
I just looked at it online and it does have a very familiar layout to the majority of the tubs I've looked at during my search.
Two questions about it though. It looks like the lounger in that one is flat under your legs (instead of contoured like several others I"ve seen). Also...no jets on your feet (just under them) Is that correct?
Those were a couple of things I didn't like about the Klondiker compared to other tubs.
-
A few more days and a few more wet tests later, I have finally settled on the winner.
It was by far the best lounger of the bunch, and over all the most comfortable of the spas I tested. It wasn't even on my radar when I started the search, but in the end...as far as comfort went, nothing could beat it.
Just purchased it today, the LA Spas HEET
(http://www.laspas.com/images/heet_img.jpg)
Now, the wait begins. As much as I enjoyed the model they had there on the floor, I wanted one in my colors with my options, so it's going to be awhile. They said it would be a couple of weeks....based on what I've read here, I'm betting on January sometime. :)
-
Josh, would you mind me asking what it went for?
-
Congrats on the new spa decision Josh. Take some pictures for us once it arrives.
-
I liked that tub when I wet tested, but the neck rests were just a bit too high for me, and I did not want to always have to use a pillow to sit on. Congrats!!!!
-
Josh, would you mind me asking what it went for?
Well, like almost every tub I looked at, they were asking about 10,500 retail for it. I wanted a bunch of extra silly stuff added in, so that pushed the price way up. Of course, they were willing to trim that price down a lot...so I ended up paying under 9 for the tub, loaded with all the options I put on. I feel like I got a good deal....although I also got a sense they could have done better. Ultimately, it was the best tub I tested....so I didn't feel like leaving it in the store for a few hundred bucks more.
Congrats on the new spa decision Josh. Take some pictures for us once it arrives.
Thank you. I'm really looking forward to it. I'll definitely take pictures. It'll be a crane install, so the pictures will be extra exciting.
I liked that tub when I wet tested, but the neck rests were just a bit too high for me, and I did not want to always have to use a pillow to sit on. Congrats!!!!
And this is why we wet test. I don't think there's any better advice anyone could have given me, but I really thank everyone who suggested it.
I'm tall..so this thing fits me like a glove. No pillows needed. :)
The lounge was one of the very few that I could lie down completely in and not have to hunch my legs up towards my body. On top of that, the foot jets in the lounge were as big as the twin foot jets in floors of many other tubs I tried out, which was completely awesome. I'm sure I'll rarely turn those jets up as high as they can go, but I can't wait to use that seat.
Every other tub I tested, I either had to sacrifice something in the lounge, or something in several of the other seats. This one was just right all the way around...so I went for it.
I'm confident that if everyone searching makes sure to take the time to wet test, then picks the one that offers the best comfort for them...they'll be able to make the best choice for them. Looking back only a month ago, I can't imagine what things would have been like if I just picked the one that was the lowest price, or the biggest brand name. Here's hoping all the homework paid off.
-
I talked to the dealer today. My tub is apparently built and MAY (crossing my fingers) be on a truck headed to Washington State from LA tomorrow. If that happens, I should have it installed before Christmas.
I'm very excited. :)
-
Very cool X-mas present. Congrats Josh.....
-
Phoenix is one of the most ethical and physcally?? sound spa companies due to their low overhead and willingness to help their customes.
Bigger companies don't care one whit about YOU, just YOU'RE MONEY!!! >:(
-
Phoenix is one of the most ethical and physcally?? sound spa companies due to their low overhead and willingness to help their customes.
Bigger companies don't care one whit about YOU, just YOU'RE MONEY!!! >:(
Let me guess. You sell Phoenix?
You're not helping your company with posts like this one, dude. You sound like a 12 year old kid on myspace.
For the record, I've heard almost nothing but trash talk about Phoenix on these forums. I have to admit, if I'd never had an interaction with their local dealership before coming here....I probably never would have visited them. It's a shame that all this negativity might be working on someone. I'm glad it didn't work on me....because their tubs felt decent (better than at least a few I tested).
In my experience...the local Phoenix reps at Black Pine Spas in Seattle were some of the nicest and most knowledgeable folks I met during my search. I originally met them when I was calling about repairs on my old tub, which they were happy to service even though they didn't sell it to me. They were so helpful, I went to visit their showroom and that's what ultimately caused me to kick off my search for a new spa.
During that search, I can't even count the number of sleezy salespeople I met. Whether it was in the showroom or on internet forums, these guys were the perfect example of how not to sell a product. Instead of telling me something about their product, they used what precious little time I was willing to listen to them for to bad mouth the competition. When they were actually talking about their own tubs, they would usually make ridiculous claims about how they were the ultimate in everything. It was the same story almost everywhere. The experience began to remind me of a Used Car lot, or perhaps the Best Buy checkout line (where they try to sell you that warranty).
The Phoenix folks didn't do this. They answered all my questions, gave me a list of other brands to check out....and suggested I come back afterwards. I really respected that....and as much as I would have loved to give Phoenix my business (thanks mostly to the way their staff displayed more integrity than almost any other dealer locally or online)....the LA Spas just felt better to me. That was my number one criteria....and they were number one in that department.....so I bought their tub.
Very cool X-mas present. Congrats Josh.....
Thank you. I am looking so forward to it anyway, but having it before Christmas would just be icing on the cake.
-
Big update!
After less than two weeks, my spa arrived today! They brought in a crane to lift it over my house, but the crane operator didn't feel right trying to navigate around all the trees. He would have needed a much longer crane to lift it in a different way, so instead...they dropped it onto a flat bed and drove it down my neighbor's hill into my backyard, where they unloaded it next to the old one.
Turns out my deck is going to need some work to support this new tub....but the owner of the store I bought it from already set that up for tomorrow for me. He's charging me a decent labor rate (plus materials) to re-enforce my deck in a few places and also add some support to a few loose steps I had. Talk about a one-stop shop.
I am very impressed with the service so far.....but bummed that my spa is sitting on a trailer in my back yard right now (instead of me sitting in it).
It's all wrapped up in it's box like a Christmas present and I can't open it until tomorrow. :)
I took some great pictures...they'll be coming soon after the job is done.