Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: AstaLaVista on December 01, 2007, 10:33:20 pm
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Today I was outside... walked by my hot tub and noticed that the bottom of one of my skirting panels had popped almost an inch out at a seam. also some of the other seams were starting to come away but only an eight of an inch or so... I called my dealer and they are sending someone out this week. The Tech said that they were having a problem with a lot of the tubs because the wood had not been properly kiln dried??? and as the wood dries it bows..and makes the panels pop somewhat. They said Watkins had approved a fix of recessed screw with a matching color putty to cover the screw... has anyone heard this... is it an okay fix??? Do I have to worry about any structural problems???
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Wow...that sucks. I lost my last tub to critters getting in and chewing through the pipes....so hopefully you don't have that problem while it's sitting there open like that.
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I take it no one has actually heard of this problem? is my tech feeding me a line? :-[
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I take it no one has actually heard of this problem? is my tech feeding me a line? :-[
It's kind of surprising to me that all the people here who are so relentless about pimping the Hot Springs tubs aren't in here talking to you about your problem with the one you've just purchased.
Sorry to hear about your issue.
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I take it no one has actually heard of this problem? is my tech feeding me a line? :-[
Asta,
I drink the kool-aid, and always recommend Hot Spring without reservation, but let me tell you......If my new tub had a problem like you have, I would be on the war path. I have never heard of any other Hot Spring tub with that problem. One of the nice things about HS tubs is that their sides are strong, tight and don't bow or split like "Lil Tyke tubs" (ask Term for some pics)
If this problem was due to improperly kiln dried wood, then I would say "GET ME A TUB WITH PROPERLY DRIED WOOD. I PAID A PREMIUM PRICE FOR THIS TUB AND EXPECT IT TO BE JUST AS GOOD AS EVERY OTHER HOT SPRING TUB COMING OFF THE LINE". This is a long term investment you have made. I, personally, would not allow a repair by adding screws and puddy where none has been used on any other similar tub. I don't think you bought a "Factory Second", did you?
Given your description, and your dealer's explanation, it's a no brainer:
-No thank you as to the repair.
-Please replace my brand new tub with another.
Just my opinion.
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Asta,
I drink the kool-aid, and always recommend Hot Spring without reservation, but let me tell you......If my new tub had a problem like you have, I would be on the war path. I have never heard of any other Hot Spring tub with that problem. One of the nice things about HS tubs is that their sides are strong, tight and don't bow or split like "Lil Tyke tubs" (ask Term for some pics)
If this problem was due to improperly kiln dried wood, then I would say "GET ME A TUB WITH PROPERLY DRIED WOOD. I PAID A PREMIUM PRICE FOR THIS TUB AND EXPECT IT TO BE JUST AS GOOD AS EVERY OTHER HOT SPRING TUB COMING OFF THE LINE". This is a long term investment you have made. I, personally, would not allow a repair by adding screws and puddy where none has been used on any other similar tub. I don't think you bought a "Factory Second", did you?
Given your description, and your dealer's explanation, it's a no brainer:
-No thank you as to the repair.
-Please replace my brand new tub with another.
Just my opinion.
I'm not sure I understand completely what Vista is trying to describe but to me it sounds like it's just a defective skirt panel. Therefore I would not think that a whole spa replacement is needed. Just some new panels. Unless it has something to do with the actual structure/framing of the spa of course.
As far as re-drilling new holes and applying putty in the old ones, no way. I would not be happy with any thing less than new panels or if the existing ones can be repaired w/o rendering their appearence as new.
I'm sure no matter what this problem will be solved in a timely manner as there is a plethera(sp?) of HS people here that are capable of support if needed.
Atleast you can still enjoy a soak. :)
Chad
ps- Some pictures of this issue would be very helpful.
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I'm not sure I understand completely what Vista is trying to describe but to me it sounds like it's just a defective skirt panel. Therefore I would not think that a whole spa replacement is needed. Just some new panels. Unless it has something to do with the actual structure/framing of the spa of course.
As far as re-drilling new holes and applying putty in the old ones, no way. I would not be happy with any thing less than new panels or if the existing ones can be repaired w/o rendering their appearence as new.
I'm sure no matter what this problem will be solved in a timely manner as there is a plethera(sp?) of HS people here that are capable of support if needed.
Atleast you can still enjoy a soak. :)
Chad
ps- Some pictures of this issue would be very helpful.
The problem is...HotSpring hasn't made a wood skirt panel in years.
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The skirt itself is fine. its the wood underneath that has bowed outward..causing the panel to pull away from the other panel... making an opening towards the bottom.
I bought what the owner called a "DEMO" with full warranty... does that mean It is a second??? I am starting to feel a little screwed.. If I knew how to post pictures.. I would post a picture of the issue.
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I have the exact same problem occuring on my tub on both sides for over a year now. My HS Vanguard is 2 years old. I haven't called the tech over yet because I'm waiting to see if this happens at the back of the spa. It's lifting on 4 corners so far (2 on each side). It's the wood frame of the side panel that is warping outwards about 1 inch so far. Also...to top things off...my inside touch panel has completely stopped working once again. This panel will be the 5th replacement in 2 years...under warranty of course.
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The skirt itself is fine. its the wood underneath that has bowed outward..causing the panel to pull away from the other panel... making an opening towards the bottom.
I bought what the owner called a "DEMO" with full warranty... does that mean It is a second??? I am starting to feel a little screwed.. If I knew how to post pictures.. I would post a picture of the issue.
I have never heard of a "factory second" HS tub. The fact that it was a floor model (?) should not change the situation. I would think this would be considered something more than a mere scratch or blemish. FWIW, the skirt on my old Prodigy (which was real wood inside and out) had no gaps or cracks in it after 13 years. I expect the same performance on my new tub.
It sounds like this is a known problem caused by an acknowledged defect in the wood used for framing with this batch of tubs. I'm confident HS will take care of it as long as they know you find the situation unacceptable.
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I don't know.. I am pretty bummed right now... I did email my dealer as well as Hot Springs to explain my concerns and disappointment. I really didn't expect to be having this type of problem. I paid the money I did to avoid this type of BS. :'(
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I have the exact same problem occuring on my tub on both sides for over a year now. My HS Vanguard is 2 years old. I haven't called the tech over yet because I'm waiting to see if this happens at the back of the spa. It's lifting on 4 corners so far (2 on each side). It's the wood frame of the side panel that is warping outwards about 1 inch so far. Also...to top things off...my inside touch panel has completely stopped working once again. This panel will be the 5th replacement in 2 years...under warranty of course.
I can't believe you haven't called them to fix it yet! The day I saw it I would not have been able to sleep until I called... within two minutes I was on the phone. I have now documented the problem with pictures. My question is ... Is this considered a Cosmetic issue...or will this effect the structure??? Either way I paid way too much money to have to live with it.
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I'm not sure I understand completely what Vista is trying to describe but to me it sounds like it's just a defective skirt panel. Therefore I would not think that a whole spa replacement is needed. Just some new panels. Unless it has something to do with the actual structure/framing of the spa of course.
As far as re-drilling new holes and applying putty in the old ones, no way. I would not be happy with any thing less than new panels or if the existing ones can be repaired w/o rendering their appearence as new.
I'm sure no matter what this problem will be solved in a timely manner as there is a plethera(sp?) of HS people here that are capable of support if needed.
Atleast you can still enjoy a soak. :)
Chad
ps- Some pictures of this issue would be very helpful.
Chad, How do I post a picture? I took one of my issue..Would like some opinions on here.
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Actually, now is a good time to tell them about the warping issue since I'll be making an appointment for them to replace the inside controller panel.
Not only are the panel corners warped...one of the panels actually developed a crack/split right down the middle of it which progressively got worse over the last 8 months. The crack now runs from top to bottom for about 80% of the panel height.
This spa was purchased new... but gave me nothing but problems since day one! They've been out to my house 7 or 8 times for repairs so far in just 2 years.
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Actually, now is a good time to tell them about the warping issue since I'll be making an appointment for them to replace the inside controller panel.
Not only are the panel corners warped...one of the panels actually developed a crack/split right down the middle of it which progressively got worse over the last 8 months. The crack now runs from top to bottom for about 80% of the panel height.
This spa was purchased new... but gave me nothing but problems since day one! They've been out to my house 7 or 8 times for repairs so far in just 2 years.
OUCH! I am starting to feel sick just thinking about it.!!!
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I don't worry too much about it any more...since it is all under warranty. I guess I've become numb to the shock of things going wrong.
Beleive it or not...I still think they make a good quality spa and I don't think my troubles are the "norm".
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Actually, now is a good time to tell them about the warping issue since I'll be making an appointment for them to replace the inside controller panel.
Not only are the panel corners warped...one of the panels actually developed a crack/split right down the middle of it which progressively got worse over the last 8 months. The crack now runs from top to bottom for about 80% of the panel height.
This spa was purchased new... but gave me nothing but problems since day one! They've been out to my house 7 or 8 times for repairs so far in just 2 years.
Have the problems been major problems? If so, and they have really been out that many times, you might start mentioning a new spa to them. Some spas just seem to have a ghost in them. That goes for all brands. No matter what gets fixed, something else seems to break.
No manufacturer likes to replace spas, but I know that if a spa has enough problems in a short amount of time, Watkins will consider a replacement. Just get your dealer to go to work for you on this.
Now, if the problems have been things like jets falling off, pillows coming loose, etc, don't expect a replacement. But, if you have major panel problems, equipment problems, etc, you might get a replacement.
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OUCH! I am starting to feel sick just thinking about it.!!!
Altavista, don't lose any sleep over this problem. I'm sure your dealer or the factory will make things right for you. Watkins is top notch and they won't screw you on this matter.
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As to the original post, I know Hot Spring had some issues a while back. The problem described was exactly the issue. Hot Spring was shipped some wood that wasn't fully dried. The problem is, you can't tell just by looking at it.
Asta, check with your dealer to see when the spa was built. You can tell by looking at the serial number.
You'll see a letter indicating your model, followed by the quarter your spa was built (1, 2, 3, or 4), then the year code. 2006 is H and 2007 is I.
This will help your dealer find out if your spa was built in a period with bad wood.
Now, the fix is very simple. They'll do a little on-site work and you shouldn't have any more problems with that. At worst, they'll replace your panel. This is a minor repair and will not affect the operation of your spa.
I know its a bummer to have anything go wrong with your brand new spa. However, when you work with natural products, you sometimes get unpredictable results.
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dunno? mine says SS3J1227 doesn't seem to make much sense.. I know I saw a sticker that showed an inspection date in August of 2007?
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The process of posting pics-
1-go to www.photobucket.com and open a free account
2-upload the pictures you want to post
3-once your pics are uploaded there are codes underneath click on the IMG code
4-click copy of the code
5-click on reply to the topic your in on the forum and right click paste in the response.
6-click add reply and your done.
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If HS has panels made of the same material that Colemans are, then it is a thermoplastic. I am sure that they are similar in material. Our panels are mounted on a sheet of wood particle board, which maintains the shape of the thermoplastic. If you remove the particle board the thermoplastic will warp. This particle board doesn't require curing, I am sure. Your panel was manufactured long before your hot tub, I'd guess. Particle board or Plywood doesn't cure, that is why it is plywood and won't warp. Panels warping seems more like an attachment problem, not enough screws in the right places. Possibly screws over threaded and caused the holes to strip and are not providing solid attachment. A longer screw could repair a stripped point of attachment. New panels should fix your problem. I'd make it a point to be on hand when the repair was made and be certain how all things fix back together. Look at the screw holes, the wood that isn't cured, all issues involved in this problem.
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This doesn't sound like a panel problem, but a wood frame problem. Panels can be easily replaced, but if the frame isn't repaired, the problem won't be fixed. Wood, though, is easily fixable and I am sure that the integrety of the spa is fine. With HotSpring's foam, the spa is like a rock. Though it seems bleak now, I am sure there will be a sound fix and repair...most likely without having to replace your spa.
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This doesn't sound like a panel problem, but a wood frame problem. Panels can be easily replaced, but if the frame isn't repaired, the problem won't be fixed. Wood, though, is easily fixable and I am sure that the integrety of the spa is fine. With HotSpring's foam, the spa is like a rock. Though it seems bleak now, I am sure there will be a sound fix and repair...most likely without having to replace your spa.
exactly! my panel is fine. it is the wood behind it that has warped.. pushing the panel out. If it is not structural then you are right it is not as bad as I first thought... but how much cosmetic damage and putty cover should I put up with for paying just shy of 11,000 after tax???
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(http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee158/astalavista223/DSC01343.jpg)
Okay here goes a try at a picture of my problem.. its upclose but to get an idea that gap at the bottom is about an inch wide.
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Have you seen the warpage?
Maybe we have been lucky, but I have never heard of this problem.
The panel is designed to be removed. Perhaps it just needs to be popped back in. However, if that were true, I don't know why it would be popping out in the 1st place.
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Looking closely inside that pulled apart section I can see a piece of broken wood. Don't know what that means... I would hate to think they would force it in with a screw. and then have the wood twist more and pop the screw making a mess of the panel.
On the bright side... my water is perfect... and as someone said earlier..at least I am not missing out on soaking time! ;)
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Asta......if your frame is warped.......get a new tub.......enough conversation.....Tom
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Okay here goes a try at a picture of my problem.. its upclose but to get an idea that gap at the bottom is about an inch wide.
From looking at teh picure IMO it shouldn't be a major fix but the dealer/service person could tell you by seeing it up close. The panel "clips" in place on the side of the spa. From the picture I'd imagine a clip came loose (male or female) or the wood broke (a vertical piece that can be replaced).
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From looking at teh picure IMO it shouldn't be a major fix but the dealer/service person could tell you by seeing it up close. The panel "clips" in place on the side of the spa. From the picture I'd imagine a clip came loose (male or female) or the wood broke (a vertical piece that can be replaced).
so not structural good. Thank you for your technical opinion.
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Asta......if your frame is warped.......get a new tub.......enough conversation.....Tom
Tom,
I was here trying to get a technical opinion instead of jumping to conclusions and running to my dealer or watkins crying for a new tub and being unreasonable. I see no reason to fly off the handle I rather look into things and think it through. Sorry if it was too much conversation for you.. I'll try a little less conversation and a little more action next time.. K? ;)
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so not structural good. Thank you for your technical opinion.
Keep in mind I'm only looking at a picture and don't want to be definitive in my opinion but the reality is the panels are really only cosmetic so the fact that the panel is popped out only means that, well, it’s popped out. There is no reason to believe it is tied to anything structural unless you remove that panel and see such an issue which I highly doubt. There can be a few reasons for it popping out but there is no way to know without being there to remove the panel. The fix may be quick & easy or simple but tedious yet either way it should not effect the spa long term in any way.
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There should be three copper colored 90 degree elbows, about an inch long at the base of your spa which secure the panel so it doesn't "pop" out. It's looks more like it "popped" out, than warped framing lumber, but it is hard to tell from just a photo. But as stated, this is a minor issue and your dealer/Watkins will take care of it.
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[glow]mine says SS3J1227 doesn't seem to make much sense..
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This is not a structural issue. It is the wood on the panel that is having the issue. This is a nuisance, for sure, but not a major repair. Your dealer should have not problem fixing it.
SS = Vista
3= 3rd Quarter
J= 2007
The final four numbers are just a sequence number.
So, your spa is a fairly newly manufactured spa. This will let your dealer check with Watkins to see if they were having an issue with the wood at that time. I'm surprised they are still having the issue. I thought they had cleared it up. But, as I said before, natural products can be difficult to work with.
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The process of posting pics-
1-go to www.photobucket.com and open a free account
2-upload the pictures you want to post
3-once your pics are uploaded there are codes underneath click on the IMG code
4-click copy of the code
5-click on reply to the topic your in on the forum and right click paste in the response.
6-click add reply and your done.
Thank you Pathfinder,
I've been hoping for someone to give "ABC" directions to posting pictures.
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Thank you Pathfinder,
I've been hoping for someone to give "ABC" directions to posting pictures.
Yes! It was easy to follow...worked first time!! Thank you Pathfinder! :)
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The fix is... the angle brackets are moved closer to the edge of the panel.
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The fix is... the angle brackets are moved closer to the edge of the panel.
I am in New England... what part are you from?
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Here's his website.
http://www.scarritt.com/
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We bought our Vanguard 1.5 yrs ago and we had the exact same issue, our panels started to bow out. After 3 tries they finally got panels in that fit properly. We'll see what happens after the winter rains if they stay in place.