Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: East_TX_Spa on November 08, 2006, 05:40:24 pm
-
the Little Tyke Spa Company is set up about 2 blocks from me again out in the mall parking lot. A lady just stopped by my store and gave me the scoop.
Quote: "They're insane! The guy working the booth is nothing but a sleazeball car salesman. He told me that if there was a problem with the spa that the HotSpring dealer (East Texas Spa) keeps parts in inventory and would service it."
BULLSQUAT!
I put this notice on my front door:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02538.jpg)
They are a scummy company with dirtbag employees.
Terminator
-
Don't hold back -- tell us how you really feel! :D
-
Unbelievable! That's pretty ballsy of they to 'volunteer' your parts and service. Git the gun ready.
-
Are they selling hotsprings spas also?
How do their prices compare to yours?
-
Are they selling hotsprings spas also?
How do their prices compare to yours?
This is a repeated theme. "Little Tyke spas" is Term's way of saying Master spas. They have a traveling road show that goes from town to town selling out of a tent, making whatever promise they need to to sell a spa before they pack and run. If you ask them who'll service the spa the typical response is that the local Master dealer will (which is always news to them). Maybe they don't have a local dealer in his area so it seems they have volunteered Term and his crew to service the owners needs after the big top comes down and the clowns move on to the next town. I've visited them as well and they are slick indeed.
-
I love it when master spa has a sale, they see their spas first, then see mine. Put them next to each other and it's easy to see which is the better quality. Term, get some spas outside and put up a banner!!
-
[ If you ask them who'll service the spa the typical response is that the local Master dealer will (which is always news to them)..
And this is one of the major reasons that the long time Master Spa dealer in my town now sells QCA spas.
-
Term,
We know your feelings, and justification for it, about this show, but is this the same sign as last year? Are they still offering this same rebate scam? Consumer's trust is defunct correct?
-
Term,
We know your feelings, and justification for it, about this show, but is this the same sign as last year? Are they still offering this same rebate scam? Consumer's trust is defunct correct?
They were here about 3-4 months ago and were still offering a rebate. A couple of my customers went and talked to them and they were offered it.
ANY COMPANY OR INDIVIDUAL THAT HAS BEEN OR WOULD BE INVOLVED IN SUCH A BLATANT SCAM SHOULD BE KICKED IN THE COOCH, PRESENT COMPANY INCLUDED.
Terminator
-
I have had a Master Spa LSI557 for 2 years now. I did not have to deal with any kind of rebate and when I did have a problem the dealer fixed it within 2 days. I used this forum for research when I purchased my spa and although I haven't posted I am well aware of past rebates. I bought my spa based on the dealer and the 5 years of a no pro-rated warranty. I will be moving to into a new home soon and will sell this spa and purchase another larger Master Spa from the same dealer. I have never seen this show in PA , but I don't think the show is a true reflection of the spas themselves.
-
How could you not have seen the show in PA. Everytime I go shopping there from Canada they have a masterspa show.
I am sorry but your first post???? seems fishy to me, Im calling BS here
-
How could you not have seen the show in PA. Everytime I go shopping there from Canada they have a masterspa show.
I am sorry but your first post???? seems fishy to me, Im calling BS here
He is from the Pittsburgh area. When "the show" came to Columbus, I saw the tubs and their marketing lies about the show, but no mention of the rebate.
-
How could you not have seen the show in PA. Everytime I go shopping there from Canada they have a masterspa show.
I am sorry but your first post???? seems fishy to me, Im calling BS here
Well this is post number 1316 for me. Everyone here knows what I own and how I feel about it. bosco, for you or anyone else to have this kind of attitude truly stinks.....stinks as much as these yahoos that are marketing MasterSpas in such a devious manner. As I have said over the last 2+ years of frequenting this forum, I have NEVER seen this show but I certainly acknowledge that they exist...the only knowledge of these shows I have comes from this forum...and I know and trust everyone here enough to know they exist...only because it is said here. I think it stinks and it indeed troubles me that MS allows it to happen. Whether MS knows that out-and-out lies are being told regarding tech support after the sale is not known but they damn should be told and should put a stop to it. If they choose to market with travelling road shows, then that's their decision but it should be upfront and honest...and this one is obviously not.
And Guz said:
I love it when master spa has a sale, they see their spas first, then see mine. Put them next to each other and it's easy to see which is the better quality. Term, get some spas outside and put up a banner!!
You know, Guz, this isn't the first time you've pissed me off with your smartass comments regarding MS quality and trying to link it to these shows. Of course it's easy to be have such a "kick'em when their down" attitude when the gang behavior takes over. >:(
-
How could you not have seen the show in PA. Everytime I go shopping there from Canada they have a masterspa show.
I am sorry but your first post???? seems fishy to me, Im calling BS here
Twenty plus miles to the nearest mall or small city, 60 miles east of Pittsburgh, really there are no spa shows here. If the admimistrator keeps stats he could probably show that more people lurk than register and post. This forum and others helped with the electrical needs and install, to the actual purchasing of my tub.
Be sorry if you wish, call BS and you just might hear an echo.
-
Come on now folks, we all know the top 2 manufacturers in the world are Thermospas and Hot Springs!
It says so in their infomercials .... ;) ;D
-
[ If they choose to market with travelling road shows, then that's their decision but it should be upfront and honest...and this one is obviously not.
You are exactly right...I have no problem whatsoever with them doing a roadside sale. We do the same thing from time to time. It is a shame that they conduct themselves in such a disreputable manner that does nothing but degrade our entire industry.
A lady came in 2 weeks ago when I was out that bought a spa from them the first time they were here. My underling, the feisty redhead Amy, said that the lady asked for some type of chemical to "get seaweed out of her water". Amy asked her what spa she had, she said she bought one from us at our mall show and paid $10,000 for it. When Amy told her we were not affiliated with Master Spa, the lady said "well, they said ya'll would do repairs on it if anything went wrong". She was not very happy to hear that we wouldn't service it....but that is just too damn bad for her.
Who does she call for restitution? The characters working the show this time are a completely different set from the guys 4 months ago. They are evidently rotated around the country or region. Plausible deniability...."Who told you that? I'm sorry, he doesn't work here anymore. No, no, no....we have several authorized service centers in Longview, Tx. Anybody will work on our spas."
Fraud and deceipt, lies and pandering, disinformation and obfuscation.... the local Master Spa representatives.
Anyways......WHOOP-DEE-DOOOOOOO! :)
Terminator ;D ATWTTB to make a deposit!
-
So I am in the beginning stages of remodeling my kitchen. I saw that there was a Remodeling & Design Expo downtown at the Mpls Covention Center last weekend. I got down there and I was finding my way from the parking ramp to the convention center. As I neared where I thought I should be going, I was greeted with many very large signs "SPA SHOW". I thought, "shoot, I got the wrong weekend" or "maybe I was mistaken and it's not at the Convention Center". I got to the ticket booth and asked the girl if I was at the right place or is this spas? She said "oh, we just have an overly excited exibitor, we asked them to remove them. You're at the right spot." I said (jokingly,kind of) " It must be Master Spas" She said she didn't know. As I was wondering thru the expo, I finally came across the 1 and only spa dealer at the show, and sure enough....Master. I was tempted to stop to listen to the pitch, but I had better things to do.
-
I'm certainly not going to call "BS" on something I know nothing about, so rest assured that this comment doesn't imply that I dont "believe" ......but......it seems that HS could really easily sue Master. Sounds like if Master's abuse of local HS dealers is so profoundly obvious, it would be an easy win. An individual person probably could not afford to, but a company could.......so why is this allowed to go on year after year?
-
Fraud and deceipt, lies and pandering, disinformation and obfuscation....Master Spa.
Indeed occurances like this bring comments as quoted above to mind though there is no proof that that the degenerates that are operating this show have blessings from MS to lie/be deceptive/pander/etc. The many MS dealers around the nation (2 here in Florida of whom I personally know) would take exception to your above mentioned quote, Term. I know you are annoyed of this particular occurance but it really does not bode well for you to make unsubstantiated claims against the entire company. If it could be substantiated that MS encourages the very behavior you've noted, then I'd be the first in line to throw stones...otherwise, there are some very devious individuals pushing MS product at this show.
-
Though I agree with Windy that these "sales" shouldn't reflect on the quality of the product itself, obviously these paint MS in a very poor light and someone who cares should contact them directly and question their ethics. Companies can get a reputation very quickly with misleading "sales" and if they really care as an organization, they would stop it.
Has anyone every questioned MS directly on this and if so, what is their stance?
Steve
-
I know you are annoyed of this particular occurance but it really does not bode well for you to make unsubstantiated claims against the entire company.
You're right. I went back and changed the wording.
Terminator
-
Hmmmm.....just sold a Solana TX to a couple that came from the Master Spa tent sale. He asked "Who will service the spa?" and was told that "The HotSpring dealer is an authorized service center". My boss is calling our lawyer when he gets back from Houston.
I don't know if anything can be done, but we do not want ANYONE to ever get the impression that we would be involved with such a disreputable organization.
I would encourage anyone else that has to deal with these types of conmen to pursue legal action as well. Don't let them get away with it.
Terminator
-
Term,
Perhaps they generate sales for you. Anytime there is promotion for spas in a community, it is promotion for all of us. Get's people shopping.
Sure, some will fall for the dog and pony show. Others will buy from reputable dealers.
-
Term,
Perhaps they generate sales for you. Anytime there is promotion for spas in a community, it is promotion for all of us. Get's people shopping.
Sure, some will fall for the dog and pony show. Others will buy from reputable dealers.
No doubt that they do, but I HATE to see people in my community ripped off by con artists. Then, my unkind and ungentle side kicks in and says "Why should you care? It's their choice, let them deal with it."
But I still care. I despise fraud and deception.
Terminator
-
I agree Term. People in your comunity are being taken. These are your neoighbors.
These people are also potential customers of yours are being ripped off.
The industry you work in is being sullied.
The name of your business is being associated with them.
When they have problems, the p!ssed off customers with broken spas are going to show up at your door, and it's YOU who are going to have to tell them "Sorry". I bet they don't take that news very well.
-
Yep, do the American thing, and sue 'em! :)
-
Went by the tent Sunday, but no one was there, so I wandered around:
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02562.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02557.jpg)
This model normally sells for $9700, but because it's damaged, you can get it for $4999!
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/tub_portsmouth.jpg)
Down East Portsmouth
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02558.jpg)
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02560.jpg)
Lo and behold, another discount! As a matter of fact, every spa I saw had a discount of some type on it. Every shell had bubbles in it. :o
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/DSC02561.jpg)
So, after a few recon missions by customers of mine, here is their MO:
1. All of these spas are worth double what they're charging. These are damaged units being sold at a tremendous discount. (In the real world, I'd be willing to bet they are selling them at full price after artificially inflating their value. Pretty shrewd...and deceitful. I doubt anyone has ever paid $9700 for a Down East Portsmouth, unless they did so as part of the Consumer's Trust Rebate Scam.)
2. East Texas Spa is a certified Master Spa Service Center and carries parts in stock. (No, we're not...never have been...never will be.)
3. When you kick their cabinets, they wobble, but it's because there is no water in the spa. ( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D)
4. When asked specifically if East Texas Spa would service their spas and to put it in writing, they reneged and made up a company "that services this area". (The company named does not exist and they would not give a location or contact information. They quickly changed the subject to jets).
5. Master Spa is putting a store in Longview, TX in January. (Earlier in the year, it was going to be "later this year". That remains to be seen.)
6. Full-foam spas have a problem with the foam hardening 30% in 3 years and cracking the plumbing. (Wow, in 20 years we haven't seen this occur. This is a new one.)
7. Master Spa is a "luxury hydrotherapy unit" while everything else is just a hot tub. (Well I'll be danged.)
Anything to make a sale and then skip town.
Anyway, they're gone and I probably won't see them again until their grand opening in January! :D
Terminator
-
are the side walls even straight on half of those units? or is it just me?
What would cause that?
-
are the side walls even straight on half of those units? or is it just me?
What would cause that?
According to the salesman, they fill out when you put water in them.
Terminator
-
are the side walls even straight on half of those units? or is it just me?
What would cause that?
According to the salesman, they fill out when you put water in them.
Terminator
Well that makes sense. :o
-
Indeed occurances like this bring comments as quoted above to mind though there is no proof that that the degenerates that are operating this show have blessings from MS to lie/be deceptive/pander/etc. .
I wish the former Master Spa dealer down the road from me would log in and speak up now that they are no longer affiliated with Master. Then again I don't think he would put it in writing, but I left there the last time with the impression that they had about as much of Master and their show as they could take. (Never heard of the rebate program here though)
-
Get in your last punches, here at least. Tomorrow this gets moved to DEAD HORSE. Not to say that Term didn't give it a new twist.
-
The local master spa dealer in my area hosted the travelling show a couple of weeks ago. Word is they sold 42 spas that weekend.
-
http://www.todaystmj4.com/_content/news/special/story_2411.asp
Lots of stories like this regarding the disappearing rebate scam. I understand that master spa contracted with an outside agency on the rebates, but you cannot believe they didn't know this type of a pyramid scheme couldn't be sustained and would collapse.
-
http://www.todaystmj4.com/_content/news/special/story_2411.asp
Lots of stories like this regarding the disappearing rebate scam. I understand that master spa contracted with an outside agency on the rebates, but you cannot believe they didn't know this type of a pyramid scheme couldn't be sustained and would collapse.
I've only heard of that rebate in a couple of instances. (None here in Ohio) There was no mention of it last year when the traveling circus came through town. It was shortly after that the local dealer dumped MS (allegedly) and now they are sold locally by Pacific Pools. I'll probably stop by the next one this winter at the convention center.
-
Term,
If you were going to service those spas, would there be a trip charge?
-
Term,
If you were going to service those spas, would there be a trip charge?
No sir. It has always been our company policy to only service HotSpring Spas and our customers, so we would never service their spas nor anyone else's.
Our customers never pay a service charge for warranty work. When their warranty expires, it is a $60 charge + cost of parts.
Terminator
-
OK....uncle....I give....I certainly can't say anything good about MS after this debacle. Man, MS sure knows how to screw up a good thing.
It certainly appears that MS sells their blems to these yahoos and then they hit the road....cozying up to legitimate dealers and propagating all manner of lies. Disgusting....absolutely disgusting. >:(
-
The local master spa dealer in my area hosted the travelling show a couple of weeks ago. Word is they sold 42 spas that weekend.
Was he actively involved, was his name at the show? In our town, the tour came despite objections from the local dealer.
-
He hosted the one I went to last year. He was strolling around and the sales reps were doing the pushing. He does this about 2 times a year.
-
The two things that just absolutely rubbed my jub jub the wrong way was:
1. Their trying to associate themselves with us
2. Selling unsuspecting folks a damaged POS spa at full price by artificially inflating the value when they could have gone to the dealer and gotten a brand new one
Windsurfdog, you have always been a class act on this forum and I have always admired and appreciated the way you conduct yourself. I can imagine it feels like I'm targeting you with my comments, but please understand that my comments are never directed towards you and your integrity. I simply despise fraud and corruption, no matter where it originates. After all, I am Batman.
Batman
-
After all, I am Batman.
... and they're Robbin'.
-
The two things that just absolutely rubbed my jub jub the wrong way was:
1. Their trying to associate themselves with us
2. Selling unsuspecting folks a damaged POS spa at full price by artificially inflating the value when they could have gone to the dealer and gotten a brand new one
Windsurfdog, you have always been a class act on this forum and I have always admired and appreciated the way you conduct yourself. I can imagine it feels like I'm targeting you with my comments, but please understand that my comments are never directed towards you and your integrity. I simply despise fraud and corruption, no matter where it originates. After all, I am Batman.
Batman
Thank you for the kind words, BatTerm...I do not feel targeted at all. I'm in full agreement with you on this one. This is an oozing sore on your community and indirectly on legitimate MS dealers and customers alike. I certainly don't like it a bit...it gives a real bad taste for a product that otherwise I am very comfortable with. There's just no accounting for some.....
-
The two things that just absolutely rubbed my jub jub the wrong way was:
1. Their trying to associate themselves with us
That is a key point, and certainly worthy of bringing up this "dead horse" again ;) Is the boss going to let this pass because its too hard to prove?
-
Is the boss going to let this pass because its too hard to prove?
I actually commanded my underling, the fiery redheaded Amy, to go over and get specific documentation in writing stating that we were an authorized MS service center. I had already had four people come in and tell me they specifically named us and were willing to sign affidavits stating so if the need arose, but I wanted Amy to get something tangible.
When she asked them to put it in writing, they then changed their tune and said they used Reliant Spa Company for service. When asked where Reliant was located, she was told "they service Tyler and Longview" and then he quickly changed the subject to jets. There is no Reliant Spa Company in East Texas.
The guy is slick, no doubt about it. Every question Amy asked, he came up with an answer on the fly. The best one was about the cabinet being flimsy until you added water. ;D ;D ;D Amy said he was nice looking and clean cut, but there was no getting around the fact that he was nothing but a conman.
It's just plain damned sorry to sell a known damaged product for full price and conniving the customer into thinking they got a deal.
Anyway, to answer your question, once they stopped using our name, the boss didn't have any more concerns about them.
Terminator
-
I called the Longview Mall to see about setting up a tent sale in their parking lot. I asked the mall rep when Lil' Tykes Spa Company was coming back. She said they're not....they filed for bankruptcy.
So we're going to set up a tent sale and when people ask us who will service their HotSpring Spa when they buy one, we'll reply "Us!"
Terminator
-
Lil tykes or the dealer?
who filed for Bankrupcy?
-
I am grateful to all who have told us about these "tent" sales by Master Spa. It is exactly the type of information we need as we search for the best spa for us. I will tell you, I am beginning to dislike 'spa" salespersons. (NOT the ones on this forum!! - I know you are trying to help us) There are so many lies being told. Without all of you, I might be falling for some of their fibs.
The weird thing is, some of the people have really good products. I never thought trying to find a dealer with a good service department and a decent spa was going to be such a chore.
Thanks for the links to the TV reports on spas and the BBB reports. We are getting quite an education!
Chancelund
-
I asked the mall rep when Lil' Tykes Spa Company was coming back. She said they're not....they filed for bankruptcy.
The implication I take from this is that either Master Spas or the travelling tent show folks have filed. Term, could you clarify, please? I remember a flurry of rumours just before Hydro Spa filed (and the rumours turned out to be true!).
A recent report http://www.kpcnews.com/articles/2007/11/11/times/st_joe_times/doc472a9edfc206d989175994.txt gives a totally different picture, and states in part:
... Master Spas, makers of portable luxury spas with corporate offices and manufacturing facilities based in Fort Wayne, is realizing a banner year. In fact, according to president and CEO Bob Lauter, business has continued to grow over the past several years. Lauter credits the growth and expansion of Master Spas to the quality product the company produces coupled with a superior customer service department and continuing to meet the needs of their upscale customers.
“The spa business itself is way off,” says Lauter. “But, our business is doing reasonably well. The economy does have an impact, but it affects the mid-priced spa products. The product that we are selling is the $10,000-$20,000 product, and that customer is not as affected by the economy when it comes to buying luxury items. It’s that middle-class consumer that really gets squeezed when buying a hot tub.
Lauter continues, “The higher-priced product we sell is really strong, and our swim spa has really helped carry our business this year. Unfortunately, there have been two pretty good sized companies that went out of business across the country and both were selling low-end product.”
Elsewhere on the internet (http://www.hottubsdirectory.com/search/Hot_Tub_Spa_Prices/Master_Spas/, a site with low credibility IMO) the company is described as producing spas in the $8K to $9K range and this seems to be supported by comments in this thread.
-
Back in May, I called the marketing manager at the Longview Mall to discuss setting up a tent sale in their parking lot. She is a customer of mine (HS Sovereign) and had been wanting us to do a parking lot sale for a couple of years, but we had been busy with other projects and had never gotten around to doing so. The Master Spa dealer from Dallas had made arrangements to do a tent sales at the Tyler Mall and, by proxy, the Longview Mall.
Anyway, when I contacted her about doing our show, I asked her when the Master Spa guys were scheduled to come back. Her reply was "They're not coming back. They told me they filed for bankruptcy."
I assumed she meant the dealer, not the manufacturer.
I did see the same guy during the summer at their Pool and Spa Show of which they are the only participants. I then saw him again at the State Fair of Texas in October. I now assume they just told the lady at the mall this in order to get out of any future commitments as they probably did poorly in this area.
Who really knows...
Term