Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: solo on September 22, 2007, 10:54:28 am
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My local Caldera rep wants me to look at a C45. He says it is the same as the Caldera Geneva, but a lower make. Kind of like Tiger River is to Hotspring.
I'm going to meet him on Sunday. Has anyone heard of this C45 spa?
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We used to sell them...sold 2 that year. They've come a long way since then and are now a pretty good spa. The C45, I believe, was the secret code that was used when the Caldera's were being sold by some company that was called Watson's if memory serves correct. I'm not sure if this is still so, but it could possibly be. Maybe. I'm not sure, but that's what I heard.
Good luck! :)
Terminator
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OK...I sat in a Caldera Geneva today. That is a very nice spa. The only thing I didn't like was the head rest in the neck massage seat. Nice jet action/massage, very nicely powered, but the head rest is just awkward. Overall, I think the Caldera is very much what I want from a size standpoint, massage standpoint, and price.
Now, the Caldera C45 is a new model that is a stripped down version of the Geneva. No lights, no circ pump, slightly smaller filter. Pretty much same mold and same jet positioning. Almost made him an offer today but wanted to do a little research on Caldera as I hadn't read as much about them as I had Hotsprings.
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C Series is about a year old.
Caldera is made by Watkins, manufacturer of Hot Spring.
However, they are made in a different factories.
Check the warranty on the C series. Not sure if it is the same as the main line Calderas.
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OK...I sat in a Caldera Geneva today. That is a very nice spa. The only thing I didn't like was the head rest in the neck massage seat. Nice jet action/massage, very nicely powered, but the head rest is just awkward. Overall, I think the Caldera is very much what I want from a size standpoint, massage standpoint, and price.
Now, the Caldera C45 is a new model that is a stripped down version of the Geneva. No lights, no circ pump, slightly smaller filter. Pretty much same mold and same jet positioning. Almost made him an offer today but wanted to do a little research on Caldera as I hadn't read as much about them as I had Hotsprings.
The Geneva is a pretty decent Spa. When I was looking, I found that the Geneva (I think) was comparable to the Cameo but it was also priced similarly. You could go "slightly" smaller and get a Tahitian in order to stay under around $7,500 or so.
I do NOT see them on the Caldera website and that in itself throws up BIG red flags. Remember that EVERY Spa dealer has to address people who are shopping on PRICE ALONE and often, they go with a REALLY low-end Spa and try to move people into them when they balk at the price of the higher-end stuff. This is a VERY COMMON sales tactic and is also a way for the dealer to make EVEN MORE money off of you. If you think they are making alot off of the higher end units, you should see what they make off of some of these "knock off" brands. As an example, Recreational Factory Outlet sells Caldera and asked around $9K for the Geneva. If a person balked at that and said "I only have $5K", they would say "I've got a Leisure Bay Spa for $6,000 I could probably reduce to say $5,600"....
In this case, the buyer's something think that LB is a lower cost version of a Caldera when in fact, they are not in ANY way related. The dealer makes a MUCH larger mark up on some of those lower end Spa's. Many times they have little (or in some cases) absolutely NO insulation. Inferior plumbing, little or NO testing and nearly NO warranties of ANY kind. In fact, sometimes the dealers say "I can build you a "custom" spa with the exact jets you want and place them were you wants them..." Sound good? Unfortunately, NO! It means that they are drilling holes and poping in some cheaper than cheap jets and there is no testing until YOU put water in the thing yourself and then these types of units usually spring a leak after running (shaking) for a bit. You were smart in not making a hasty offer. I don't know if these approaches have anything to do with a C45 but the Watkins reps on here could probably set you straight on the value. Search for C45 and see if it really is Caldera or if it is some other brand. If you can't find anything online, it's probably NOT Caldera. Ask the dealer to see the Users Manual and look at the back pages to see who mfg's it. Viking was another of the low-end, poorly insulated tubs similar to a Leisure Bay. Of course, this is the internet and these are all simply "my Opinion" and not a bit of FACT is relayed here so your mileage may vary. Here is a post from another HT forum dated 2006 so you would have thought that they had plenty of time to of added them to their website. I wonder why they aren't up there?
http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/config.pl?noframes;read=92713
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C45 is a Caldera. I don't know why they don't put it on the web site.
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I'm probably gonna offer the guy $8000 for the Caldera Geneva. I saw 3 other people get that proce this year on a 2007. We'll see how badly he wants to sell me a spa.
I figure between the Caldera or Hotsprings guys, one of the 2 will meet my price. I think both the Hotsprings Envoy and the Caldera Geneva are both excellent spas.
PS...If you are a dealer and can't or wouldn't touch this price, I don't really need to hear about it. Your point is moot and falling on deaf ears. Go rip somebody else off.
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Solo, did you like the Geneva better than the Envoy? Did you notice the the Geneva has more power in the jets department? Perhaps you should test drive the Tahitian since it has the lounger. They are the same spas except the Geneva doesn't have a lounge. Good luck with your purchase.
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My local HS/Caldera dealer lists the Tahitian at $9500. No idea how much room he has to haggle on that price. And I thought the Tahitian is smaller & shallower than the Geneva? At least by the web site, it looks like the Niagara and the Geneva are the same size, & that Tahitian is a bit smaller.
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I'm probably gonna offer the guy $8000 for the Caldera Geneva. I saw 3 other people get that proce this year on a 2007. We'll see how badly he wants to sell me a spa.
I figure between the Caldera or Hotsprings guys, one of the 2 will meet my price. I think both the Hotsprings Envoy and the Caldera Geneva are both excellent spas.
PS...If you are a dealer and can't or wouldn't touch this price, I don't really need to hear about it. Your point is moot and falling on deaf ears. Go rip somebody else off.
Solo,
As you can tell, I am a dealer. I won't tell you whether or not I would touch that price. I have bent over backwards to give you info while others became disgusted with you.
You have now finally pushed my button. I hope and pray neither meets your price. You obviously do not see the value and want to rip them off.
Your search is moot and is now falling on deaf ears.
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Dan,
I'm just tired of the high pressure tactics I see in the showroom and this forum. I'm tired of one dealer slamming the next. I'm REALLy tired of the guys in this forum pushing the sale. NOT ONCE in this forum have I heard a dealer tell a prospective buyer that they could get a better deal. It's always "buy, buy, buy".
So I may have pressed your hot buttons. But as a consumer and member of this forum, I feel like a fish swimming in shark infested waters. My apologies if you'v ebeen offended. But you know, nobody is twisting your arm forcing you to read my posts either.
Solo
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I think I'm starting to like this kid...
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Solo, did you like the Geneva better than the Envoy? Did you notice the the Geneva has more power in the jets department? Perhaps you should test drive the Tahitian since it has the lounger. They are the same spas except the Geneva doesn't have a lounge. Good luck with your purchase.
The Geneva DOES have a lounge.
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Solo, did you like the Geneva better than the Envoy? Did you notice the the Geneva has more power in the jets department? Perhaps you should test drive the Tahitian since it has the lounger. They are the same spas except the Geneva doesn't have a lounge. Good luck with your purchase.
The Caldera Geneva and the HS Envoy were a wash. Both great, didn't like one more than the other. Each seems to have pluses and minuses. I would be happy with either.
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The C Series from Caldera were originally given to Watsons and maybe a couple of other large dealers. They were done as a "Private Label." Well, the retailers didn't sell what they promised, so Watkins decided to open it up to the full Caldera dealer lineup.
The C-45 is a Geneva that loses some power, circ pump, etc. Still a good spa and at a cheaper price.
The pillow on the Geneva was designed to keep the water coming out of the neck jets from splashing you in the face.
The Envoy and Geneva are very close cousins. In fact, some of the seats in the Envoy very closely resemble those of a Caldera.
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Dan,
I'm just tired of the high pressure tactics I see in the showroom and this forum. I'm tired of one dealer slamming the next. I'm REALLy tired of the guys in this forum pushing the sale. NOT ONCE in this forum have I heard a dealer tell a prospective buyer that they could get a better deal. It's always "buy, buy, buy".
Solo,
1) There have been many posts - maybe not with you, but with other shoppers - where people have pointed out that a shopper can do better than what the dealer offered.
2) I'm not a dealer, and I'd like to see you just get the spa you like. I think some people just don't understand your particular thought processes or shopping methods. They may have seen shoppers like you in their store, and they didn't understand them either, so they're taking it out on you. There's a psychological term for that - transference or something.
3) Please keep in mind that although you may feel "pressured", nobody on this forum stands to make a dime on your purchase, one way or another. They just like the spas they represent, and they see you interested in one, so they want things to work out. I think it's like people who want to fix their best buddy up with somebody on a date - "You've met her, she likes you, you like her, so what's the holdup? Ask her out already!!"
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The Geneva DOES have a lounge.
Sorry about that. I was thinking of the Niagara for some reason. Too many Stone IPA's probably that night......
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Solo,
1) There have been many posts - maybe not with you, but with other shoppers - where people have pointed out that a shopper can do better than what the dealer offered.
2) I'm not a dealer, and I'd like to see you just get the spa you like. I think some people just don't understand your particular thought processes or shopping methods. They may have seen shoppers like you in their store, and they didn't understand them either, so they're taking it out on you. There's a psychological term for that - transference or something.
3) Please keep in mind that although you may feel "pressured", nobody on this forum stands to make a dime on your purchase, one way or another. They just like the spas they represent, and they see you interested in one, so they want things to work out. I think it's like people who want to fix their best buddy up with somebody on a date - "You've met her, she likes you, you like her, so what's the holdup? Ask her out already!!"
My Caldera dealer told me that people are paid to cruise forums like this. In fact, He told me that he saw my posts. I would imagine that spa dealers that don't have suctomers in their shops are probably crusing tyhe net looking for potential cusatomers. My belief is that forums like this exist to educate the consumer about spas, but also to drive spa sales. Notice that many people are saying "great deal" or "buy, buy, buy" regardless of what the deal is.
You never know who is on the other end of the internet ot what their intentions are. I came to this forum to get educated on spas. I have accomplished that. I was hoping to find other consumers sharing pricing info, negotiating tips, etc. I did find some of that here too, but not as much as I was hoping for.
All in all, despte the ribbing I have taken, I am glad that I found this forum. I have learned a lot from the experience and have been given some great advice. It was certainly worth the heat I have taken.
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Sorry about that. I was thinking of the Niagara for some reason. Too many Stone IPA's probably that night......
Can't blame you for that...