Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: solo on September 17, 2007, 05:57:14 am
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So my dealer drained one of their spas and filled the Sovereign for me. I met him after hours for a privater test.
Although it is a nice spa. I found 2 things:
1. Not enough power. I pump doesn't cut it for me.
2. Not enough jets. I found that the jets didn't comfportably hit me where I need
So on to the 700 Series Sundance test this week.
I may end up stretching my proce range and look at an 800 series Sundance as well as a Hotsprings Envoy. Will first see how the test of the Sundance Hamilton goes.
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So all this hoopla over whittling down the price of a spa that you never tested and when you did you decided that it was not what you wanted anyway. Do you ever consider what YOUR time is worth? How much of your time did you waste on that negotiation? Simply pointless.
txwillie
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So all this hoopla over whittling down the price of a spa that you never tested and when you did you decided that it was not what you wanted anyway. Do you ever consider what YOUR time is worth? How much of your time did you waste on that negotiation? Simply pointless.
txwillie
And a Private showing to boot :P
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So all this hoopla over whittling down the price of a spa that you never tested and when you did you decided that it was not what you wanted anyway. Do you ever consider what YOUR time is worth? How much of your time did you waste on that negotiation? Simply pointless.
txwillie
So what do you suggest? Should I just wet test right away? Ask the sales person to fill a spa I am interested in before knowing if we can come to terms on price?
I want to be respectful of my sales reps time and resources as well as my own.
So how do you think I should handle the next wet test?
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So what do you suggest? Should I just wet test right away? Ask the sales person to fill a spa I am interested in before knowing if we can come to terms on price?
I want to be respectful of my sales reps time and resources as well as my own.
So how do you think I should handle the next wet test?
Test it first when there open. then lead them on for the year.
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Just a question....someone else asked this in your other post but I don't think you responded to it. Why are you limiting yourself to HS and Sundance? I'm not sure why you negotiated the price before wet testing....seems a little backwards to me. Make sure you like the tub.....THEN negotiate.
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Just a question....someone else asked this in your other post but I don't think you responded to it. Why are you limiting yourself to HS and Sundance? I'm not sure why you negotiated the price before wet testing....seems a little backwards to me. Make sure you like the tub.....THEN negotiate.
These 2 dealers are within a close proximity of my house and seem to sell quality spas. The Caldera dealer was a little too far away and the sales rep kind of scared me with the way he approached the sale. I went to the Bullfrog dealer but also ruled them out. Hawkins is only open from 8 am to 5pm M-F. That's how I came to just Sundance and Hotsprings.
Now, I am seeing the wisdom in your reasoning though. Find the tub or tubs I want first, then make my best deal. I'm going to proceed this way from now on.
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I'm not sure why you negotiated the price before wet testing....seems a little backwards to me. Make sure you like the tub.....THEN negotiate.
So all this hoopla over whittling down the price of a spa that you never tested and when you did you decided that it was not what you wanted anyway. Do you ever consider what YOUR time is worth? How much of your time did you waste on that negotiation? Simply pointless.
txwillie
LMAO! These comments sound familiar! ;D
What a total waste of everyone's time and solo has given an example of how NOT to buy a spa!!
Most have the common sense to;
A) Do their homework
B) Determine your budget
C) Ask the right questions to determine the best spa for you
D) Narrow down your choices to 2 or 3 spas
E) Wet test them to determine comfort and therapy
F) Determine overall value to YOU in your choices
G) Negotiate price or add-ons
H) Buy the fricken thing!
By putting step "G" ahead of the rest, you have created a negotiation position of weakness not to mention the waste of time factor.
Steve
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Not exactly a fair statement STEVE.
My Sundance dealer didn't want to fill the spa I like unless I was ready to put down a deposit if the test went well.
My Hotsprings dealer told me after the wet test that he wouldn't have a spa filled for just anyone, but because he could tell I was serious about buying, he had one spa drained and another filled just for me.
So both sales reps were a little reluctant to fill a tub that was dry unless they knew I was serious about buying. How can one be serious about buying if you don't know if the tub is in your range or if you haven't been in one that has water? By the way, neither the Hot Springs nor the Sundance tubs were in my price range until I negotiated them down.
So it's kind of a viscous cycle. Dealer wants me to be serious about a tub before they will fill it. How can you be serious until you test it? How can you be serious until you know it's in your price range? See the dilemma?
I was actually trying to be respectful of my dealers time.
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Personally, if a dealer isn't willing to allow me to wet test prior to a deposit or some form of monetary transaction, I know it's not where I want to do business!
You'll find historically that most dealers WANT people to wet test and do not put up obsticles to allow it. By being in the store and asking questions about spas, tells me you are serious and that would be enough for me as your salesperson.
Sundance would be off my list in a BIG hurry with that attitude.
I'm in the midst of buying a new SUV. If one of the car dealers asked me for a deposit prior to a test drive to show how serious I was about the purchase, I would walk out but not before being very clear why! I have better things to do with my time than shop for big ticket items that I'm not serious about buying.
Here's another take on things...
Some people walk into the store and ask, "how much is that one... how much is that one". Drove me NUTS! How can you determine VALUE by just price? I know these people are generally wasting time and kicking tires. If you went in with that concept, I could see a dealer being more stand-offish. There's different ways to show that you are serious and maybe your attitude was giving them a sense that you were just all about the money and not overall value. A cheaper pricetag is not always a better value right?
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Agreed.
Cheaper is not always a better value. In fact, when I buy anything signficiant, I tend to scratch off my list the most expensive and the least expensive. I find the best values are usually somewhere in the middle. Befor that point, the product is too cheap and after that point you aren't gettingmuch return on the extra money.
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Other than my very last sentence, did the rest make sense?
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Solo,
We have an interesting situation here. These dealers were respecting your budget and trying to get you into a spa that fit it.
Now you are finding your budget may not get you the spa you want/need.
Good luck on your quest. ;)
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Solo,
We have an interesting situation here. These dealers were respecting your budget and trying to get you into a spa that fit it.
Now you are finding your budget may not get you the spa you want/need.
Good luck on your quest. ;)
Dan
Even if solo buys a spa can you see what a nightmare he will be if it needs service ;D
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The Envoy will have a lot more power than the Sovereign does. Its two pumps really turn up the volume. But it will cost you more than $7,000.
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Dan
Even if solo buys a spa can you see what a nightmare he will be if it needs service ;D
Actually, I will merely hold my Delaership accountable to our agreement. And if he or she has a problem with that, then they would be the difficult one, not me.
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Actually, I will merely hold my Delaership accountable to our agreement. And if he or she has a problem with that, then they would be the difficult one, not me.
You are already a PITA ;D you dont even own one :D
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Personally, if a dealer isn't willing to allow me to wet test prior to a deposit or some form of monetary transaction, I know it's not where I want to do business!
You'll find historically that most dealers WANT people to wet test and do not put up obsticles to allow it. By being in the store and asking questions about spas, tells me you are serious and that would be enough for me as your salesperson.
Sundance would be off my list in a BIG hurry with that attitude.
I'm in the midst of buying a new SUV. If one of the car dealers asked me for a deposit prior to a test drive to show how serious I was about the purchase, I would walk out but not before being very clear why! I have better things to do with my time than shop for big ticket items that I'm not serious about buying.
Here's another take on things...
Some people walk into the store and ask, "how much is that one... how much is that one". Drove me NUTS! How can you determine VALUE by just price? I know these people are generally wasting time and kicking tires. If you went in with that concept, I could see a dealer being more stand-offish. There's different ways to show that you are serious and maybe your attitude was giving them a sense that you were just all about the money and not overall value. A cheaper pricetag is not always a better value right?
The problem is that if I take every sales person off my list that hasn't been 100% truthful, then my selection goes down to almost nothing. For example, I have caught both my Sundance and Hotsprings dealers in what I consider to be lies, half truths, or misrpresentations of the truth. But I like the product they sell, so I gotta put up with it.
You just have to put up with a certain amount BS from the dealer just like he has to put up with a certain amount of "tire kickers" or "time wasters".
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The Envoy will have a lot more power than the Sovereign does. Its two pumps really turn up the volume. But it will cost you more than $7,000.
I had a pleasant suprise this weekend. I was driving my mother to Washington DC for her 55th high school reunion, and we were talking about how badly I need this spa for my fibromylagia.
She wants to help me buy it. So I will spend $7000 of my money and she is gonna help me if I can't find what I need in that budget.
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The problem is that if I take every sales person off my list that hasn't been 100% truthful, then my selection goes down to almost nothing. For example, I have caught both my Sundance and Hotsprings dealers in what I consider to be lies, half truths, or misrpresentations of the truth. But I like the product they sell, so I gotta put up with it.
You just have to put up with a certain amount BS from the dealer just like he has to put up with a certain amount of "tire kickers" or "time wasters".
Get a Costco type tub
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...She wants to help me buy it. So I will spend $7000 of my money and she is gonna help me if I can't find what I need in that budget.
Are you sure you can trust her? sounds suspicious to me...maybe you should ask 6-7 other mothers in your area, see how much they would lend you if you were their son, then go back to your mom and see if she can't beat their number...
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Yep 104 degrees...I would lump you in with the best used car salesman and ambulance chasing lawyers out there.
When I go to 7 eleven, I expect to get a guy behind the counter that can barely speak English. And now, thanks to my interactions with you 104 degrees, when I walk into a spa delaership, I now expect to meet a lying, half truth telling, anything to get the sale, slick tongued devil.
At least at Costco I wouldn't be dealing with the devil...
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Yep 104 degrees...I would lump you in with the best used car salesman and ambulance chasing lawyers out there.
When I go to 7 eleven, I expect to get a guy behind the counter that can barely speak English. And now, thanks to my interactions with you 104 degrees, when I walk into a spa delaership, I now expect to meet a lying, half truth telling, anything to get the sale, slick tongued devil.
At least at Costco I wouldn't be dealing with the devil...
I dont sell spas or fix them. ive been honest with you! something you seem to hold to your heart. in my buisness i avoid custumers like you. you want everything below cost and when it needs to be fixed, you want it NOW. i bet you would even come in and expect free cemicals for free because you bought a spa below cost. :P
I cannot wait till you have to pay for a service call ;D i can hear it now ;D they are ripping me off >:( >:( >:( ;D
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Well...whatever you do fro a living, I'm happy to NOT be one of your customers.
I don't expect anything below cost or for free. But I will do my best to get a good deal. I know that this bothers you.
Why would you be happy to see someone's spa break? Kind of says a lot about you...
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Well...whatever you do fro a living, I'm happy to NOT be one of your customers.
quote]
Thank christ ;D ;) :)
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you.
Why would you be happy to see someone's spa break? Kind of says a lot about you...[/quote]
All tubs break down even hotsprings. you will then need to fork over about 35 to 50 bucks just to have them come out.i would love to be a fly on the wall then ;D
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The benefit to you from buying from Costo, Wal-mart, or similar stores, is that you know you are getting the best price possible from them. No tire kicking, etc. May I suggest the Highlife spa from Costco, $5699.99 made from the makers of HotSpring. Great tub and a great price, plus no dealers to lie to you.
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The benefit to you from buying from Costo, Wal-mart, or similar stores, is that you know you are getting the best price possible from them. No tire kicking, etc. May I suggest the Highlife spa from Costco, $5699.99 made from the makers of HotSpring. Great tub and a great price, plus no dealers to lie to you.
I told him about the Costco type tub in one of the many threads he has started.
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I have caught both my Sundance and Hotsprings dealers in what I consider to be lies, half truths, or misrpresentations of the truth.
What have they lied to about?? do you have a habbit of asking Quetions you already know the anwnser to??
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I don't ask questions that I already know the answer too. But I do ask a lot of questions. Enough to see a sales person trip up. You see, most aren't smart enough to remember the lies they told to you last week. They then say something different this week.
I have already posted numerous lies in this forum if you have been following. Such as:
A Vista and a Sovereign will have a nearly identical feel. Jet pressure out of each head is standardiezed and will feel the same. After I told him the Soveeeign wasn't strong enough and that I might be interested in the Envoy, he tells me that the Soverign is a 1 pump model and the Envoy is a 2 pump model and the force of the jets will be much stronger.
How about the face plate for the moto massage? There is a faceplate but it's not gonna give you the same feel as a moto DX. In yesterdays visit, he tells me that there is nothing like the moto DX seat in his spa.
He tells me that he must charge sales tax even with my prescription for the spa when another dealer shows me his invoices that don't charge the sales tax and points me to the website that shows it.
Every dealer has told me that their spas are the most energy efficient (how can that be, can't only one spa be the most efficient?).
Labor day sales prices that are good any time.
The Hot springs rep told me that his classic series was as only cosmetically different from the nonclsassic. Then later said that the motors were different.
Need more?
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I don't ask questions that I already know the answer too. But I do ask a lot of questions. Enough to see a sales person trip up. You see, most aren't smart enough to remember the lies they told to you last week. They then say something different this week.
I have already posted numerous lies in this forum if you have been following. Such as:
A Vista and a Sovereign will have a nearly identical feel. Jet pressure out of each head is standardiezed and will feel the same. After I told him the Soveeeign wasn't strong enough and that I might be interested in the Envoy, he tells me that the Soverign is a 1 pump model and the Envoy is a 2 pump model and the force of the jets will be much stronger.
How about the face plate for the moto massage? There is a faceplate but it's not gonna give you the same feel as a moto DX. In yesterdays visit, he tells me that there is nothing like the moto DX seat in his spa.
He tells me that he must charge sales tax even with my prescription for the spa when another dealer shows me his invoices that don't charge the sales tax and points me to the website that shows it.
Every dealer has told me that their spas are the most energy efficient (how can that be, can't only one spa be the most efficient?).
Labor day sales prices that are good any time.
The Hot springs rep told me that his classic series was as only cosmetically different from the nonclsassic. Then later said that the motors were different.
Need more?
Join a health club
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Haven't you ever purchased anything before, watched a tv commercial or listened to the radio? Everyone says that their stuff is better than everyones else's. That's how they sell stuff. It's up to you the consumer to figure out for yourself what's best for you not what's the best of the best of the best.
Apperantly you are into doing your research, so do some. Find out what is most important to you and then decide what you would like to look at. Stop wasting people's time and arguing about things that don't matter. If you don't trust a dealer than DON'T BUY FROM HIM! It's that simple. Why continue to talk about how much he is lying to you and then go and wet test. If you don't trust him than ask to talk to someone else and if it bothers you that much, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
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Haven't you ever purchased anything before, watched a tv commercial or listened to the radio? Everyone says that their stuff is better than everyones else's. That's how they sell stuff. It's up to you the consumer to figure out for yourself what's best for you not what's the best of the best of the best.
Apperantly you are into doing your research, so do some. Find out what is most important to you and then decide what you would like to look at. Stop wasting people's time and arguing about things that don't matter. If you don't trust a dealer than DON'T BUY FROM HIM! It's that simple. Why continue to talk about how much he is lying to you and then go and wet test. If you don't trust him than ask to talk to someone else and if it bothers you that much, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Great advice. Somehow, I don't recall asking for it...
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Great advice. Somehow, I don't recall asking for it...
...now I remember why people started treating you like you were a D!©K#€ÅD.
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...now I remember why people started treating you like you were a D!©K#€ÅD.
I make it a point not to tell someone what they should or should not do unless they ask. I wish more people thought this way.
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I make it a point not to tell someone what they should or should not do unless they ask. I wish more people thought this way.
LOL, I make it a point to give my opinion, sometimes even if it isn't requested. Like in the grocery store or on a plane when someone is being an ass to the cashier or steward I have multiple times chimed in and I always get the "I wasn't asking you" response to which I always reply "I don't wait for an invitation, too bad if you don't like it, you're being an ass".
If you don't want people's opinions on this site then leave. When someone does chime in and you respond with the always clever "...I don't recall asking for it..." don't be surprised if you don't get much respect.
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I certainly wouldn;t be in this forum if I didn't want peoples input. But I find it nice when people stick to the topic at hand.
This guy blasts me for talking about how much a dealer lied to me when I was simply responding to a question from 104 degrees. He tells me not to waste anyones time. Which I haven't. Porbably just my own.
He tells me not to buy from a dealer I don't trust...that would leave me buying from costco which isn't gonna happen.
I don't see how he felt he was truly helping me in any way. It was like he just wanted to interject for the point of interjecting...now that's being a dikhead
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After reading all your posts it seems to me if you don't get tha answer you like you think everone lies or that there
no good. I wet tested and found the one I liked and made a deal. I bought a HS vanguard with everything
for 7700.00 out the door no BSing with the dealer.
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I make it a point not to tell someone what they should or should not do unless they ask. I wish more people thought this way.
Greeeaaaaaat... An entire world of Solo's that can't deal with others due to their own crippling paranoia. You come to this forum asking for advise, and you have gotten lots of good help here from lots of different folks. I'm shocked that after a couple of weeks of your BS that some folks are still trying to help you, when every one of your threads has turned sour. You so very much miss the point of buying a spa. It is a luxury item. In some cases it is a needed therapy device (hence the sales tax breaks in some states). It should be fun. It should be something you look forward to, either for the relief of some affliction, or the simple enjoyment you will get if you ever own one. But in your case, all you can see is people out to take advantage of you. Then, for whatever reason, you demonize the very folks on this forum that you ask help from. Simple fact is, if the dealers were dishonest, they could not stay in business. I would bet there are some "off brand" spa dealers that really are just out for the buck, but the dealers of the mainstream brands have nothing to gain and much to lose by jacking you over. No one on this board has any stake whatsoever about what, or even if, you ever but a spa. They are just enthusiasts that want others to enjoy what some call spatopia.
You do need help, but I don't think this forum is the place to get the type of help that you need.
txwillie
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After reading all your posts it seems to me if you don't get tha answer you like you think everone lies or that there
no good. I wet tested and found the one I liked and made a deal. I bought a HS vanguard with everything
for 7700.00 out the door no BSing with the dealer.
Well...
1. It's fine for people to disagree with me, but be ready to discuss your point as I enjoy a good debate
2. I do think that most sales people lie
3. There are only a couple of people in this forum that I think are pure evil
I am curious, you paid $7700. What was the dealers initial asking price?
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Well...
1. It's fine for people to disagree with me, but be ready to discuss your point as I enjoy a good debate
2. I do think that most sales people lie
3. There are only a couple of people in this forum that I think are pure evil
I am curious, you paid $7700. What was the dealers initial asking price?
Cripes, this guy is sounding more and more like Jimbo..... :o
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Not exactly a fair statement STEVE.
How can one be serious about buying if you don't know if the tub is in your range or if you haven't been in one that has water? By the way, neither the Hot Springs nor the Sundance tubs were in my price range until I negotiated them down.
So it's kind of a viscous cycle. Dealer wants me to be serious about a tub before they will fill it. How can you be serious until you test it? How can you be serious until you know it's in your price range? See the dilemma?
I think the "viscous cycle" is somewhat of your own making, because your "price range" seems to be defined differently than most other shoppers'.
I just can't figure you out. You're being a real hardliner on price, which is fine if you literally can't afford more. This is fine, I'm in the same boat. You're also not even looking at a particular model unless you haggle first, which tells me that your budget is very strict, down to a few hundred dollars.
However, in this thread you've mentioned that you didn't like the spas you wet tested, and you may have to "adjust" your budget. I just don't get that. You originally weren't even considering more expensive models (like the Sundance 800 series you mentioned), because they were out of your "budget". You didn't want to even TALK to a dealer about a certain model (let alone wet test one) because it was out of your "budget" - doing so would have been a waste of your time.
And now you're going to throw that whole budget out the window, and start the process all over again. If your budget is somewhat nebulous or at least adjustable, why are you being such a stickler for trying to stick to it?
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I think the "viscous cycle" is somewhat of your own making, because your "price range" seems to be defined differently than most other shoppers'.
I just can't figure you out. You're being a real hardliner on price, which is fine if you literally can't afford more. This is fine, I'm in the same boat. You're also not even looking at a particular model unless you haggle first, which tells me that your budget is very strict, down to a few hundred dollars.
However, in this thread you've mentioned that you didn't like the spas you wet tested, and you may have to "adjust" your budget. I just don't get that. You originally weren't even considering more expensive models (like the Sundance 800 series you mentioned), because they were out of your "budget". You didn't want to even TALK to a dealer about a certain model (let alone wet test one) because it was out of your "budget" - doing so would have been a waste of your time.
And now you're going to throw that whole budget out the window, and start the process all over again. If your budget is somewhat nebulous or at least adjustable, why are you being such a stickler for trying to stick to it?
The reason I can afford to look at the more expensive models now is because my mother wants to help me pay for it. I didn't know this until just this weekend. I had a strict budget of $7000. This past weekend she offered to pay for it all, but I wouldn't let her. That's too big of a gift and I want her to spend her money on her.
But if she wants to kick in $1000 or maybe $1500, that expands my options and helps out tremendously.
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The reason I can afford to look at the more expensive models now is because my mother wants to help me pay for it. I didn't know this until just this weekend. I had a strict budget of $7000. This past weekend she offered to pay for it all, but I wouldn't let her. That's too big of a gift and I want her to spend her money on her.
But if she wants to kick in $1000 or maybe $1500, that expands my options and helps out tremendously.
I gleaned from this, or another post that: Mom is in her early 70's (55th HS reunion and all). This would put boy Solo in his/her 30's or 40's. Certainly no child. (updated as I have no specific gender info.)
Your momma gonna help you out?!!!
txwillie
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I gleaned from this, or another post that: Mom is in her early 70's (55th HS reunion and all). This would put boy Solo in his 30's or 40's. Certainly no child.
Your momma gonna help you out?!!!
txwillie
Maybe she read about how dangerous hot tubs can be and is hoping for a miracle? If she chips on a bunch of hard liquor to go with your initial soak I'd be suspicious.
:D
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Maybe she read about how dangerous hot tubs can be and is hoping for a miracle? If she chips on a bunch of hard liquor to go with your initial soak I'd be suspicious.
:D
[smiley=smiley_up.gif] ;D [smiley=smiley_up.gif]
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I gleaned from this, or another post that: Mom is in her early 70's (55th HS reunion and all). This would put boy Solo in his 30's or 40's. Certainly no child.
Your momma gonna help you out?!!!
txwillie
Not that you are sincere in asking, but my mom is very well off and wants to spend her money on her children. She gets enjoyment out of spending her money on loved ones. And to boot, I never once asked.
Yes, I am in my 30's but I am not in the typical income bracket that buys a spa.
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Not that you are sincere in asking, but my mom is very well off and wants to spend her money on her children. She gets enjoyment out of spending her money on loved ones. And to boot, I never once asked.
Yes, I am in my 30's but I am not in the typical income bracket that buys a spa.
Herein lies the problem, you presuppose everything. Does one have to be in a certain income bracket to own a spa, or anything else for that matter? No. I could drive a much more expensive car than I do, or a much less expensive one.
I'm gonna do what I said I would not. Give you some sound (IMO) advise. Look at something other than HS and SD. My first spa was a Marquis Quest. In the same price range as what I think you are looking for. I think I paid around $6500 for it 3 or so years ago. The Quest has been totally redesigned since my old one, so I can't vouch for the current model, but my old spa was awesome for therapy. IMO, you can't beat the stack of HK40's. I think they call it the therapy pillar now. One drawback was that it is a single pump spa and uses a diverter to operate different areas of the spa. It/was great for one, but due to the diverters, when the diverter is set to the middle position(s) the flow is reduced. My guess is this would probably not be an issue for you.
Take it for what it is worth. Who knows, I'm probably lying to you.
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Solo, I'm curious what you do for a living?
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The reason I can afford to look at the more expensive models now is because my mother wants to help me pay for it. I didn't know this until just this weekend. I had a strict budget of $7000. This past weekend she offered to pay for it all, but I wouldn't let her. That's too big of a gift and I want her to spend her money on her.
But if she wants to kick in $1000 or maybe $1500, that expands my options and helps out tremendously.
Okay, that makes more sense. I get it now. Not that you need to share your life story here, but if you showed just a little trust in the people in this forum (such as sharing more info like this), perhaps things would go more smoothly in these threads. For example, you could ask a question like "I had a strict budget of $7000, but I wasn't happy with the tubs I've found. I was fortunately able to increase my budget this weekend, and now I think I can afford $9,000 or so. Do you think spa X or spa Y can be had for that?" I think there are a lot of good spas in that range. For Sundance, I would look at a Majesta or a Cameo. I'm not as familiar with Hot Spring, but they have some great higher-end tubs like the Grandee or an Envoy. As others mentioned, it doesn't seem like things may be working out with the HS or Sundance dealers. You may consider Marquis, Artesian, Arctic, D1, or others if they're in your area.
Of course, it may be a little too late to salvage much advice here. I'm just as enthusiastic as the next guy about taking shots at people (especially if the person we're taking shots at is Jim), but we're taking about a guy's Mom now, and that's just not a boundary that should be crossed.
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The reason I can afford to look at the more expensive models now is because my mother wants to help me pay for it. I didn't know this until just this weekend. I had a strict budget of $7000. This past weekend she offered to pay for it all, but I wouldn't let her. That's too big of a gift and I want her to spend her money on her.
But if she wants to kick in $1000 or maybe $1500, that expands my options and helps out tremendously.
Is she kicking in $1000 directly or just letting you skip the rent on the basement for a few months? ;D
[size=8]I'm sorrry, I couldn't resist![/size]
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Thanks for the good advice (the latter posts in this thread).
To answer some fo the questions:
1. I live in Richmond, VA
2. How much will my mother kick in? She volunteered to pay for the whole thing but I won't let her. So she will probably give me whatever I need. Though I doubt I would feel comfortable asking her for much.
And I agree with the person that said maybe I should look at a brand other than HS or Sundance. Am going ot look at a Jacuzzi next week.
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Thanks for the good advice (the latter posts in this thread).
To answer some fo the questions:
1. I live in Richmond, VA
2. How much will my mother kick in? She volunteered to pay for the whole thing but I won't let her. So she will probably give me whatever I need. Though I doubt I would feel comfortable asking her for much.
And I agree with the person that said maybe I should look at a brand other than HS or Sundance. Am going ot look at a Jacuzzi next week.
Jacuzzi makes a real nice tub ;) make sure its the updated models
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So I have now officially changed my strategy. Over the next 3-4 weeks I am going to go wet test everyone's spa (the dealers in my area are Hostsprings, Sundance, Caldera, Bullfrog, and Jacuzzi). I will commit to nobody. I will not listen to the high pressure sales tactics like (we'll fill the tub if you put down a deposit). I am simply going to go test everything and make up my mind what I want.
How can I know what I like until I sit in it?
So I'm gonna take a couple of extra weeks to make my decision. I will then decide which makes and models I like and go to the homeshow the weekend of October 13 to see which dealers have deals there.
I'll get my best homeshow price and then buy from there.
I have been stubborn and hard headed but see the err in my my ways. As others have stated, I have been doing it backwards. From here on:
Commit to nothing
Wet test everything
determine what I like and narrow down to 2 or 3 spas
get my best deals on those spas (homeshow if possible)
buy
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So I have now officially changed my strategy. Over the next 3-4 weeks I am going to go wet test everyone's spa (the dealers in my area are Hostsprings, Sundance, Caldera, Bullfrog, and Jacuzzi). I will commit to nobody. I will not listen to the high pressure sales tactics like (we'll fill the tub if you put down a deposit). I am simply going to go test everything and make up my mind what I want.
How can I know what I like until I sit in it?
So I'm gonna take a couple of extra weeks to make my decision. I will then decide which makes and models I like and go to the homeshow the weekend of October 13 to see which dealers have deals there.
I'll get my best homeshow price and then buy from there.
I have been stubborn and hard headed but see the err in my my ways. As others have stated, I have been doing it backwards. From here on:
Commit to nothing
Wet test everything
determine what I like and narrow down to 2 or 3 spas
get my best deals on those spas (homeshow if possible)
buy
Let us know how you like the Bullfrog
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The Bullfrog, in one of it's jet packs, had the nicest set of back jets of any spa I tested. Better than single moto in my opinion, but I haven't tested the Moto DX. So that part I really liked. The one corner seat gave a really excellent foot massage too. So if I put the one set of back jets that had the superior back maaage in the corner with the 2 really strong foot jets, that would be a phenomenal seat. It was also nicely powered.Additionally, I liked not havinbg to mess with diverter valves. This spa had no diverter valves which I think is a good idea.
On the negative side:
1. Neck jets? Didn't care for either jet back that had neck jets. Neck jets are a nice idea, but no spa that I have tested yet has implemented them in a way that doesn't splash or that gets adequate pressure on the neck. It might not be possible.
2. They didn't carry all the jet packs I wanted to test. If jet packs are one of your big selling features, my thought is that you dshould at least have one of each type in every store.
3. Moving the jet packs around? I woudl never do that. I would put them where I want them and leave them there.
4. The sales rep didn't seem to be too knowledgeable on the filtration system.
The sales rep was low pressure which I really liked. Not sure it has the build quality or the technology that HS or SD have. It's warranty was shorter, that worries me a little.
But overall, it gave nice hydrotherapy which is my #1 criteria. It seems like a nice spa.
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So I have now officially changed my strategy. Over the next 3-4 weeks I am going to go wet test everyone's spa (the dealers in my area are Hostsprings, Sundance, Caldera, Bullfrog, and Jacuzzi). I will commit to nobody. I will not listen to the high pressure sales tactics like (we'll fill the tub if you put down a deposit). I am simply going to go test everything and make up my mind what I want.
How can I know what I like until I sit in it?
So I'm gonna take a couple of extra weeks to make my decision. I will then decide which makes and models I like and go to the homeshow the weekend of October 13 to see which dealers have deals there.
I'll get my best homeshow price and then buy from there.
I have been stubborn and hard headed but see the err in my my ways. As others have stated, I have been doing it backwards. From here on:
Commit to nothing
Wet test everything
determine what I like and narrow down to 2 or 3 spas
get my best deals on those spas (homeshow if possible)
buy
Why don't you start by dropping all you preconceived notions and have some fun while shopping and testing? Who knows, you might even befriend a dealer or salesman who would actually want to work with you rather than alienating them.
You are on the right track by looking at all the options, but then you list out a set process for what you are gonna do. With this mindset, you will wind up right back where you are. And, just FMI, why are you so obsessed with "homeshow pricing"? What makes you think that homeshow prices are any different or better? Answer: the voices in my head tell me so, so shut up you stupid liar.
txwillie
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I will have fun testing the tubs...I just don't have a ton of time and these dealers are spread so far. I drove an hour to wet test a tub the other night. I am glad that I did because I learned that I don't want it. But that was a 3 hour investment of time. Meanwhile, I am in intense pain every day. The hydrotherapy helps a lot. So I am motivated to buy one fast. But it's a big purchase for me. It's an important purcahse for me. It's not jsut a luxury item for me and I'm not a person that has anything luxury.
But I am enjoying the tubs when I actually get to get in them.
Homeshow price? I have talked ot several people that got great deals at the homeshow. I have also seen dealers in this forum say that these shows can be expensive for them to attend. That makes me think that they are motivated to sell tubs at these shows. Seeing that one is just 4 weeks out, I might as well see. If it can save me $500-1000, then I won't mind so much filling up my bathtub twice a day until then. Again, $1000 saving might not meanmuch to an affluent person wwho can afford any spa they want, but we both know that I am not that person.
But I would like some more information from you. What exactly is it that you think I am doing wrong in my new approach? What would you do differently?
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2. They didn't carry all the jet packs I wanted to test. If jet packs are one of your big selling features, my thought is that you dshould at least have one of each type in every store.
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This is true. i would take them off my list for now. Caldera has a "no splash" neck jets in there tub. You should try that one and let us know how you liked it.
BTW do you know the name of the jetpack you liked in the bullfrog??
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Yes neck jets splash, and??? I don't see any issue with that. I have the mini neck blaster and it works great, one of my favorites. I also agree that the dealer should have each jetpack available to test. And as each seat height and orientation is different you will move them around a bit until you find the right combo.
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2. They didn't carry all the jet packs I wanted to test. If jet packs are one of your big selling features, my thought is that you dshould at least have one of each type in every store.
This is true. i would take them off my list for now. Caldera has a "no splash" neck jets in there tub. You should try that one and let us know how you liked it.
BTW do you know the name of the jetpack you liked in the bullfrog??
I understand what you are saying about removing dealers from my list when they do certain things. So far people have told me to remove the Sundance Rep (for asking for a deposit to fill the tub), the Hotsprings rep (for telling me that a Vista would feel the same as a sovereign) and now the Bullfrog rep (for not having all jetpacks). If I do that, I will soon have nobody to purchase a spa from. Those are 3 of the 5 dealers I have been able to find in my area! So when I told you that "I need to put up with a certain amount of BS from the delaer", it is because we just don't have many dealers in this area. My options are limited in Richmond, VA.
Back to your question about the Bullfrog Jetpack I liked. It's called the Oscillator and it comes with 4 "verta'ssage" jets. It felt every bit as good if not better than single moto to me.
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What about Artesian or D1 - are those dealers somewhat near you? I would check them out as well.
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I said remove them for "now" not forever. this is a valid reason to not look there for now. you need to try all the jetpaks to see the ones you like best. this is one of there selling points.customizing the spa :)
Maybe the other dealer feels the spas are the same??? who knows.it could of been that you told them you could not afford the better spa????they tried to make you feel better about the less expensive one.
For the deposit. was it refundable??????? if so what was wrong with doing it "if" you are serious??????
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That was his sale price and after reading this forum I knew it was a good deal so I did'ent have to BS with him.
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You may want to test soak the Caldera Paradise Martinique, more pump and comfort backed by Watkins. A great choice in your price range. Better warranty and comfort than Sundance too.
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104 degrees...the Sundance dealer didn't require a depost for the Wet test...I was trying to briefly recap what had been covered in a previous thread.
I asked her for a wet test of the Hamiton (700 series). She said that she didn't have one wet. So I sat in what she did have wet just to get an approximation of what Sundance's middle of the road has ot offer. I left the showroon.
When I spoke tpo her a few days later, she was able to get the Hamilton under $7000. I again told her that I would need to wet test and asked her if she would fill it up. She explained how they don't just fill up tubs for anyone. It reuires draining anotuer tub, bringing in the personnel to wire it up and set it up, etc. That she would only fil it up if I was serious about buying it. I said I was very interested. She then told me that she would fill it up if I would be willing to put down a deposit on the tub if the wet test went well. I agreed. In fact, I made her an offer ont he phone. Told her that if she could seel it o me for $6500 cash deal, I would buy it when I wet tested. She didn't agree to the deal, but did agree to the test.
So the tub is filled today and waiting for me to test. Thing is, I have seen the err in my ways since then and have changed my strategy. I am now wet testing everything from everyone. So she stands almost no chance of making the sale today as I want to test a jacuzzi and a calderra.
I feel bad as when she and I made the deal, I was serious about buying from her. Now I feel differently.
Oh well, ultimately that is her cost of doing business.
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104 degrees...the Sundance dealer didn't require a depost for the Wet test...I was trying to briefly recap what had been covered in a previous thread.
I asked her for a wet test of the Hamiton (700 series). She said that she didn't have one wet. So I sat in what she did have wet just to get an approximation of what Sundance's middle of the road has ot offer. I left the showroon.
When I spoke tpo her a few days later, she was able to get the Hamilton under $7000. I again told her that I would need to wet test and asked her if she would fill it up. She explained how they don't just fill up tubs for anyone. It reuires draining anotuer tub, bringing in the personnel to wire it up and set it up, etc. That she would only fil it up if I was serious about buying it. I said I was very interested. She then told me that she would fill it up if I would be willing to put down a deposit on the tub if the wet test went well. I agreed. In fact, I made her an offer ont he phone. Told her that if she could seel it o me for $6500 cash deal, I would buy it when I wet tested. She didn't agree to the deal, but did agree to the test.
So the tub is filled today and waiting for me to test. Thing is, I have seen the err in my ways since then and have changed my strategy. I am now wet testing everything from everyone. So she stands almost no chance of making the sale today as I want to test a jacuzzi and a calderra.
I feel bad as when she and I made the deal, I was serious about buying from her. Now I feel differently.
Oh well, ultimately that is her cost of doing business.
So even if you like the spa and the price is right and the dealer bent over backwards to accomodate you, you won't buy it. Wonderful.
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This guy is the reason that good buyers have to hassle with salesmen. Where is the moderator. Someone should ban this guy. He is giving all spa perspective buyers and sellers a bad taste in their mouth. He is trying to use this forum, and everyone in it. His posts have become absolutely ridiculous. Even after they bend over backward for the guy, he doesn't buy. Someone please, for the integrity of the board, shut this guy off......
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So even if you like the spa and the price is right and the dealer bent over backwards to accomodate you, you won't buy it. Wonderful.
This just dawned on you??
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Actually, I am sure Solo is going to buy.
He is simply making this a difficult process for himself and many dealers. He is looking for someone to buy from asa much as for something to buy.
He has a case of what we call buyer's constipation.
Solo...make a decision. The sooner you are in hot water the sooner you will feel better. I know you don't trust salespeople and you want the best deal, but isn't the spa more important than the deal?
By the way, what was the 1st Hot Spring you wet tested?
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So the tub is filled today and waiting for me to test. Thing is, I have seen the err in my ways since then and have changed my strategy. I am now wet testing everything from everyone. So she stands almost no chance of making the sale today as I want to test a jacuzzi and a calderra.
I feel bad as when she and I made the deal, I was serious about buying from her. Now I feel differently.
Oh well, ultimately that is her cost of doing business.
She's done her job, she's got you wet testing. When a salesperson can get the customer in the spa with water they stand a very good chance of getting the sale. I'm betting that you wet test and agree to the sale.
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She's done her job, she's got you wet testing. When a salesperson can get the customer in the spa with water they stand a very good chance of getting the sale. I'm betting that you wet test and agree to the sale.
She is using the wet test to close the deal and make the sale not a bad idea but,if I were buying a spa and wanted to wet test a specific spa but have to commit to buying it? I like many have said would not fly for me. If solo had been smarter about it he wouldnt have said he would buy if she filled it for him and now feels bad he has to back out. Not saying she may still get the sale??
I could tell from his first few post this was going to drag on. ::) Buyers constipation to a tee!!
Least he is out trying different brands now,this should get even more interesting. :'(
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Better warranty and comfort than Sundance too.
Can you elaborate on this statement?
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This guy is the reason that good buyers have to hassle with salesmen. Where is the moderator. Someone should ban this guy. He is giving all spa perspective buyers and sellers a bad taste in their mouth. He is trying to use this forum, and everyone in it. His posts have become absolutely ridiculous. Even after they bend over backward for the guy, he doesn't buy. Someone please, for the integrity of the board, shut this guy off......
This may be the funniest post I have ever read in this forum.
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This may be the funniest post I have ever read in this forum.
You have a point. Though your posts have been all over the place and your approach a bit reprehensible at times why should you be banned? In fact this forum has done well to redirect some of your tactics and has served its purpose well. The site isn't here to help people connect and sing "Cumbyya" but rather to share information.
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Actually, I am sure Solo is going to buy.
He is simply making this a difficult process for himself and many dealers. He is looking for someone to buy from asa much as for something to buy.
He has a case of what we call buyer's constipation.
Solo...make a decision. The sooner you are in hot water the sooner you will feel better. I know you don't trust salespeople and you want the best deal, but isn't the spa more important than the deal?
By the way, what was the 1st Hot Spring you wet tested?
You are SO right in saying that I am going to buy. I wouldn't have driven 1 hr and 15 minutes to wet test a Sovereign if I wasn't serious. I just need to find the right tub, the right dealer, and then a price I can live with. I'm getting close. But I won't be rushed. No matter how many people try to rush or pressure me, I need to make a good decision here. And good decision are almost never made in a hurry.
The first hot tub I sat in I think was a HS Vista. But as I recall, it had single moto. So I am not certain. The second HS I sat in was a Sovereign. It just wasn't right for me. I may go look at an Envoy, though I don't know that I can afford it.
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Solo,
What I am saying is if you get a Hot spring, Sundance, Bullfrog, Caldera or one of several other brands, it will be a good decision.
You will not find the perfect spa at the right price from the right dealer.
The Vista has the DX moto.
You have stated your mother will make up the difference between your $7,000 and what the right spa is for you.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Exercise:
Rank in importance:
Price
Spa
Dealer
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I would say:
1. Most important is getting the right spa. It need to be one that will last and hit me in all the right spots. If I get the wrong spa, it doesn't really matter how much I like my dealer. I won't get the therapy I need.
2. Price. I will feel guilty if I spend too much and not enjoy the spa as much as I could. I also don't wish to have my mother chip in too much. Even though she can easily afford to and she wants to. There is a pride factor.
3. Dealer. Hopefully, if all goes well I will see my dealer when I buy chemicals and filters. There will be the occassional service call, but hopefully not many. After the main transaction, me and the dealer probably won't interact all that often.
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Well, I wish you the best. I'm done with my input and the many other GB's of info you've received...
Be thankful...you've got far more input (though you needed clarity) than most and again... FOR FREE! How about your next post is telling us the tub you bought... ::)
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I am so proud of myself. This thread has made it to six pages, and other than answering one of Solo's early threads about how much I got off (on my tub), I have been able to resist getting into a battle of the posts with him.
I think my Anti-Jimbo therapy sessions are really working! The ball-gag and thumb locks really help too.
(lt's hard to type while wearing thumb locks)
Rich
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I stopped posting helpful advice a long time ago.