Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: lynn4ever on August 06, 2007, 12:03:00 am
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My husband and I wet tested the following tubs today. HS Vista, Caldera Geneva, Sundance Maxxus, Artesian Pelican Bay and a Catalina model (forget which one now) and sat in MANY more dry to see what we liked and were willing to pay for.
Listed in reverse order of preference
Catalina - The tub wasn't small, but the interior was cramped, I kept banging into things, so it seemed on the small side. We were told to sit in it first (before the Artesian) to get a feel for it and better see the differances between the tubs. We were really unimpressed considering the dealer was asking premium dollars for it.
Artesian Pelican bay - We thought this would be our favorite after reading the brochures, but both of us were unimpressed with this tub, The controls were hard to figure out, we never could get a handle on what knob/divertor controlled what jet. Also two of the seats in the middle had little to no water pressure from the jets (dealer couldn't figure it out either). On a positive note, my husband really like the fact that the lounger had jets that hit his hamstrings while seated in it and the build quality seems high. Perhaps we were in a broken tub but we expected more from this tub.
HS Vista - Very nice tub, my husband liked the Moto Massage but not the lounger. We thought the other seats were great though. I didn't like the Moto Massage and thought the lights and foot jets were so-so. Also, I was not a fan of the waterfall option. We sat in a Grandee dry, as it has no lounger, and 2 moto massagers.
Caldera Geneva - We both liked this tub a great deal. The lounger was great and the other seats also provideded a nice massage. We felt that every part of our bodies was massaged as we moved around the tub to different seats. The controls were simple and easy to use. The lights and waterfall function were also pleasing to both of us. Not sure why it is priced below the very similar HS Vista, but it is.
Sundance Maxxus - We also really like this tub as well. A high number of jets, all of the seats fit us well, the dome in the bottom that you can rest your feet on while they get massaged is also a plus in our book as is the 41.5 inch depth. The only downside was the $$$. As a result we are considering the Optima model as is is more in line with what we would like to spend. It has no lounger though.
Bottom line. is that the Geneva is $9,000 out the door while the Maxxus is $12,500. We can get the Optima for $10,000 though. Both the Sundance dealer and the Caldera/HS dealer will include the cover lifter and steps with the purchase of a tub, but the Caldera also comes with a sub panel for the electrical.
Is the Sundance worth the extra money? Is the Caldera a good tub? Any and all advice is appreciated. We would like to get this right the first time ;D
Thnx,
Lynn
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Is Sundance worth the extra money? Only if you like it best.
Is Caldera a good tub? Yes, it is very much like the Sundance owned by Watkins, the biggest spa builder whcih also owns HotSprings.
If you like the Optima but want a lounger, try out the Sundance Cameo.
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Is it the brand or the features you are rating?
You say you like the Maxxus best, except the money. You like the Geneva 2nd but have questions about the brand. You like the Vista 3rd, but not the lounge. Now you are considering the Optima, which has no lounge. You should wet test non loungers if you are leaning that way (HS Grandee, Caldera Niagara, Sundance Optima) if you can.
To answer your questions directly, only you decide if Sundance is worth the extra $$$. To me saving $1000 (Geneva vs Optima) for your #2 spa vs one not really on your list kind of answers that question.
Of your final 3 brands you are looking at, all are good. Good luck with your final decision.
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I have owned the Optima for about two months and am very happy with the tub. We added the stereo and are glad that we did.
Lounge v. no lounge: this is very much a personal choice. However, we opted for the four corner sitting arrangement and are happy with the choice. You can easily stretch out in the Optima (along a side or diagonal). The benefit is that the Optima also allows for four people to comfortably sit in the four corners. We like the fact that there are different jet arrays in each of the four corner seats. We like them all. We also enjoy the reflexology dome (not available in most lounge equipped spas including the Cameo).
Hoyaken
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Is it the brand or the features you are rating?
You say you like the Maxxus best, except the money. You like the Geneva 2nd but have questions about the brand. You like the Vista 3rd, but not the lounge. Now you are considering the Optima, which has no lounge. You should wet test non loungers if you are leaning that way (HS Grandee, Caldera Niagara, Sundance Optima) if you can.
To answer your questions directly, only you decide if Sundance is worth the extra $$$. To me saving $1000 (Geneva vs Optima) for your #2 spa vs one not really on your list kind of answers that question.
Of your final 3 brands you are looking at, all are good. Good luck with your final decision.
I'm not a big fan of the Maxxus due to fact that dispite it's size, the seating is very confining (I like a little more open seating) and with it's price, you have to really like everything about it. My seating preference aside, its certainly a premium spa.
My thoughts pretty much mirror Dan's. I'd wet test the 3 non-lounge spas and/or decide between the Geneva/Optima. Both brands will do well for you.
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Is it the brand or the features you are rating?
You say you like the Maxxus best, except the money. You like the Geneva 2nd but have questions about the brand. You like the Vista 3rd, but not the lounge. Now you are considering the Optima, which has no lounge. You should wet test non loungers if you are leaning that way (HS Grandee, Caldera Niagara, Sundance Optima) if you can.
To answer your questions directly, only you decide if Sundance is worth the extra $$$. To me saving $1000 (Geneva vs Optima) for your #2 spa vs one not really on your list kind of answers that question.
Of your final 3 brands you are looking at, all are good. Good luck with your final decision.
Sorry to be confusing. The lounger dilemma stems from there being two viewpoints here. My hubbie enjoys it, but claims he can go without it. While I don't like them, but I don't want to him to have to miss out on it. It confuses us too.
In the meantime, we just want to make sure that both brands are well built, no history of problems etc. and "worth" the purchase price. Both dealers were exceptional, very nice, willing to throw in accessories and no history with the BBB.
We will probably be heading back to wet test just the 2 tubs we are focused on and to take some detailed notes too.
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I'm not a big fan of the Maxxus due to fact that dispite it's size, the seating is very confining (I like a little more open seating) and with it's price, you have to really like everything about it. My seating preference aside, its certainly a premium spa.
Out of curiousity, have you test soaked it?
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Out of curiousity, have you test soaked it?
I have not and I don't discount those who think the spa is great and like that type seating. For me its a huge spa but its really only for 4 people (and a coold down seat). If I want a lounge I'd get the Cameo instead and pocket the difference because I think it offers nearly as much as the Maxxus or if I didn't care about a lounge I'd get the Optima which is what teh majority of customers do. I just see a huge spa yet see how the seats are designed and having sat in a few spas its just not for me because I really like more open seating.
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I am a new Sundance owner, could not afford the Maxxus or Optima, so plumped for the Chelsee. Think of the money you could save? My new Chelsee is very comfortable and has seats for all - I am 6 foot tall and my wife is 4ft 5in - and we BOTH have seats that are comfortable.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/Noshdaminsk/aa.jpg)
Mrs Nosh chilling out ! 8-)
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w15/Noshdaminsk/bb.jpg)
OK, there are less jets, but you still get the centre 5 jets foot massage.
Also, I did the music chair thing last night - I went from chair to chair spending about 5 minutes in each one and I can truly say the experience was awesome. I got out after 25 minutes and felt that I had been given a 'good going over' by a gang of thugs!!!!! ;D I have never experienced a massage before (like this) and I don't think my body was used to it!! LOL I have learnt to do things in little doses from now on... ;)
The only negative I see on your shopping list, is the depth - the Chelsee is 36 inches - but as I have said, I can sit in the Power chair (as I call it) and my shoulders are virtually submerged. 8-)
Hope this helps!! ;)
Nosh
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I am 6 foot tall and my wife is 4ft 5in
Wow
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Wow
...the wedding photos are hysterical, as she just comes up to my nipple...... :D
Nosh.
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Got off work early today and the hubby and I went over to wet test a Jacuzzi 480. The tub was very nice, we both liked the fact that one of the sides rises higher up and makes for a deeper seat. We also liked the foot dome jets and the controls. However the hubby was unimpressed with the lounge seat. We then inquired about a 470 (no lounge) but they only had water in the 480.
The pricing was 11k for the 470 with all the accessories (steps, coverlifter, ozonator). This is too high for us, as we were quoted 10K for a Sundance Optima (with all the goodies) so it seems that it is still between a Caldera Geneva and the Sundance Optima (Maxxus is too much money for us to spend).
The Sundance dealer has an Optima w/stereo on his floor (2006), never been filled, that he wants to move out. he is asking $9,800 which is the same as a 2007 minus the stereo. Are there any major changes from 2006 to 2007?
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The pricing was 11k for the 470 with all the accessories (steps, coverlifter, ozonator). This is too high for us, as we were quoted 10K for a Sundance Optima (with all the goodies) so it seems that it is still between a Caldera Geneva and the Sundance Optima (Maxxus is too much money for us to spend).
I'm not sure where you're located, but I was quoted $10,000 for a Jacuzzi J480 with steps, lifter, and ozonator. Of course, as I've learned here on this site, there is a big difference in prices depending on where you're located. I'm in eastern PA. If you're in CA, particulalrly LA, I've been told that they go for a grand or so more.
I liked the J480 and was almost sold on it. However, like your hubby, I wasn't overly impressed with the lounge and that was a feature that I desired. Although the foot dome was very nice. There's a Jacuzzi J355, I believe, which has a nice lounge and is much cheaper. You may want to check that out.
We ended up going with a Sundance Cameo specifically because of its lounge. It was a grand less with the steps, lifter, and ozonataor. Used the extra cash to build a paver patio. We love it! Don't recall the exact quote on the Maxxus, but it was considerably more than the Cameo and J480. Never really thought about the seating arrangement on it as Spatech noted, but looking at it online I can see what he means. Even the smaller Cameo with a lounge appears more open.
You're definitely going about it the right way by wet testing. I was at the same dealers a couple times wet testing and comparing before finally pulling the trigger. Enjoy your search and your tub when you decide. I don't think you could go wrong either way.
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Our qoute on J480 with all the accessories was 12K, so a 2K difference from your area to mine. We are located in southern CT, not too far from your neck of the woods, but we often end up paying top dollar on everything. The price of being near the Big Apple I guess.
They have a 2006 J355 on the floor that we were qouted 8K for (it does have a stereo) and also a 2006 J365 for 7.5K (no stereo).
We also like the Sundance Optima and Cameo, and may end up in one yet, but up here they were both 10K, so we are trying to justify paying 1500 dollars more than the 8.5K the Caldera dealer qouted us on a Geneva. We could swing the Sundance, but as you stated, that money could be used for other stuff, like paying for the slab and the electrician.
Very hard to gauge the relationship between price and quality. Both Sundance and Caldera seem like great companies, both tubs were phenominal nd both dealers are great too. The easy answer is get the Geneva, but this is a big decision and we are trying to get it right the first time.
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It's August of '07, Why do these dealers still have '06 spas?
If you are interested in one of those, get a better price. ;)
They don't want to have 2 year old spas on the floor.
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Hi Lynn, we were pretty much in your shoes a year ago.. trying to decide between a Caldera (niagara) and Sundance (optima). We also had roughly a $1,500 difference between the two. The Sundance was our first choice, however the Caldera was a VERY close second.
We really, really, really liked just about everything about the Caldera, and we especially liked saving the $$. The decision consumed me for nearly a month. We ultimately went with the Sundance because we felt it was a little higher quality (and my husband was impressed with the circ pump and filtration) and it was 'the one' for us. I'm positive we would have been very happy with the Caldera but my husband said as long as we were spending that much money, we should get EXACTLY what we want. (Was really MY husband talking?!? :o)
I've read it here a few times.. that once you hop into your tub you don't really think about what you spent. And I could not agree more! FWIW we did spend another 1,500 or so adding an extension onto our existing deck... but we never regretted spending the extra on the spa.
They are both great tubs and I think you'd be happy with either of them. If you like them equally then by all means go with the Caldera. Good luck with your decision!!
PS we did wet test each 2 or 3 times.. don't be bashful about multiple wet tests if you are uncertain. We noticed different things each time we went.
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Thanks Pt, we are going to wet test them both again soon. We remember liking both tubs equally, however we wet tested a Maxxus, not an Optima or Cameo. Also a large part of the problem is that the hubby likes the idea a lounger (Geneva has) and I liked the foot dome (Optima). However in our house it is I who am the frugal one and $1,500 is enough to do the electrical and the pad so at the moment, the Geneva is the leader.
There is an 06 Optima with a stereo that the dealer is asking $9,800 for, if I can get the hubby to forgo the lounge and also get the dealer to drop his price that may the tub for us yet.
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We paid $8,800 for our Optima, no stereo so $9,800 w/ stereo is not a bad price... if you can get him down.. even better!
I do wish we'd sprung an extra 1,000 for a stereo. We haul out a small boom box and set it on a table near the tub.. not nearly as convenient as having it integrated into the tub. And the volume/jet noise balance is harder to control with the boom box.. so we generally keep the volume pretty low.
Re lounger/no lounger .. we went back and forth on that also :) We have 2 kids and wanted to have the most seats (space) available so as not to be on top of one another. Seemed like most loungers take the place of 3 seats. One of the Caldera's had a 1/2 lounger which was very comfortable without compromising the # of seats. The Optima has does have several seats that are designed to sit sideways (the ones w/ the long headrests) so you sit in a lounger position - just w/out the plastic under your legs. Also I've found that you can stectch out on the foot dome and you get a fairly reclined position. We had a man from church put our electrical in so we got a good price on that. Anyway, good luck w/ your decision! Either one will be great!
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Seemed like most loungers take the place of 3 seats.
Cameo (lounge) and Optima (no lounge) are identical dimension-wise and the seating arrangement is similar. Except of course for the lounge, which appears to take up only two seats. It was a tough choice deciding between the lounge or foot dome. Maxxus offers the best of both worlds, but I didn't see it being worth the price difference.
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In an ideal world, we would be getting the Maxxus with a stereo, but at 13K for that package from our local dealer, and with so many other toys to buy ;) thats not going to happen. Honestly at this point, we are most likely going with the Geneva. We are going to wet test again on Saturday and make a detailed list of pros and cons and also get a "best" price from the 2 dealers. However in all honesty it will be tough for the Sundance dealer to make up the $1,500 difference IMO.
Thanks for the inputs into our quest.
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In an ideal world, we would be getting the Maxxus with a stereo, but at 13K for that package from our local dealer, and with so many other toys to buy ;) thats not going to happen. Honestly at this point, we are most likely going with the Geneva. We are going to wet test again on Saturday and make a detailed list of pros and cons and also get a "best" price from the 2 dealers. However in all honesty it will be tough for the Sundance dealer to make up the $1,500 difference IMO.
Thanks for the inputs into our quest.
How'd the wet tests go? Did you pull the trigger. :D
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Sems like you only examined the jets and the lay out - dig deeper make sure you evaluate
cost of operation, construction technique( solid foam vs. frame with light duty foam), sanitizer options, dealer reputation, ease of maintenance and chemical costs.
You have wet tested some of the best ( and actually some of the worst) do a little more digging before laying down 10K- THERE IS A WIDE VARIANCE
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Hi All,
Well we spent the day wet testing again. We started out in the Geneva. My husband is tall and had some issues with the neck massaging seat that needs your shoulders under the collar to work correctly. The slouching required on his part negates the therapy he gains. He also did not like the lounger so much as he did last week. After sitting in it for 10 minutes he complained that his low back was getting sore due to him not fitting the seat well enough (he was essentially braced by his upper hamstrings and shoulders in the seat with his back suspended). So this threw a wrench into our plans. We went over all the delivery instructions anyhow, but it seems that the Caldera Spas are not going to be the one.
We then drove over to the Sundance dealer and hopped into the Maxxus. We enjoyed it. He fits everywhere very well and I love the foot dome. Again the only rub is money. They still had the 06 Optima with stereo and now say it can be ours for 10K including tax (6% in CT). We left without buying anything, but both feek that we may now have to suck it up and get a Maxxus as we both really enjoy the tub and it has everything we want in a tub.
The only real discussion left for us is if we want to re-visit the Artesian line as we are now looking at a different ballpark money wise that will allow us to see about a Pelican Bay. Although we will visit a different dealer, the last one left us cold ;).
So, another day testing and still no tub. More to follow I am sure....
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It's a good thing you tested the Caldera again as you found that it wasn't a good fit for hubby. :( The Maxxus is very nice, we have only sat in one dry and it felt very comfy and roomy even without water. Any way to talk the dealer on lowering the price? We live in the midwest and the Sundance dealer here has a pretty good sale going on, has the Maxxus for $11,399.
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Well we did ask about how firm the price was and the there is a wee bit of wiggle room there, say 200 bucks and an upgraded set of steps. We are debating the stereo option now. Without it, that would put us at $11,700, not too far off of the mid west price.
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If you have a big family or if you plan to have a lot of parties, don't get the lounge. If its just two of you, then get the lounge because, you don't have to sit in it, and you might find later that you enjoy it more than you thought you would.
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Wow, the Pelican Bay must be new this year b/c we didn't see it when we bought our Piper Glen and it's not in the Platinum class book from 2006. It looks nice....I guess it's around the same size as the Maxxus? One nice advantage to the Artesian Platinum Class Line is the individual controls for each seat..... big plus IMO. I don't think you can go wrong with any of the ones you're wet testing! Good luck.....let us know the outcome.
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We have had an Optima for 2 1/2 months. We absolutely love it! I hardly use any chemicals. The filter doesn't need to be cleaned or soaked in solution, just change it every nine months. The service has been amazing (Rob in Kitchener). If we ever get another hot tub we will have a tough time buying anything but Sundance. Hope this helps.
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Lynn - just curious as to what happened with your other wet tests?
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Update
We have a quote from an electrician for 500 for the hookup. So thats one thing taken care of. We also have had 2 contractors out to see about a pad and/or a deck for the tub. Another contractor will be here in about 8 hours for a third qoute.
Now if only we could decide on a tub ;) We went out on Thursday night and wet tested an Artesian Quail Ridge. However since it was an 06 AND we are interested in the Pelican bay, not a real valid comparision. They have a Pelicab Bay in the back bay area and we got a chance to see it and how it was layed out. We both thought that the layout was superior to the Maxxus as both tubs are the same size, but the Maxxus has far fewer seating areas.
So we like the layout better, but since we couldn't wet test there and the other Artesian dealer was horrendous, we simply cannot get a feeling for how the Pelican bay will work out for us. We also know that we both like the Maxxus jets and the tub fits us (no floating etc). Also the Maxxus is a bit cheaper (500 dollars) and the comes with steps and cover lifter , while the Pelican Bay comes with neither.
So while the Pelican Bay has its advantages and MAY be a great therapy tub, the lack of being able to try one wet will most likely make the Maxxus the winner by default.
Lynn