Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: MRB on July 24, 2007, 08:11:47 pm
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I'm curious to get some opinions on an issue that I am having with my hot tub cover. The cover is still under warranty. The problem is that the membrane beneath the skin of the cover has wrinkled in several places on one half of the cover. The other half of the cover is unaffected. The wrinkles are very obvious. It's only an aesthetic issue for now but it's clearly a manufacturing defect relating to workmanship.
I'm sure that most people would agree that part of the appeal in owning a hot tub, and certainly part of the selection criteria as a consumer, is the aesthetic appeal of the particular hot tub that one has purchased.
I've approached my local dealer, who in turn forwarded my request to replace the cover under warranty, to head office. I vigourously expressed this point of view to the person in charge of warranties at head office and was told that this is not a warranty issue. I advised that I was not a happy customer and was told that "there are things that I'm not happy about in life either". The conversation was obviously going nowhere so I ended it. I have to admit that I was very suprised by the lack of professionalism from the individual heading a warranty department at head office.
Here's a photo.
http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x20/bonecho1/?action=view¤t=picture2002.jpg
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Don't be surprised by a lack of professionalism. Honestly, there are few managers, etc., out there that have any idea how to manage. And there are few dealers and retail personell who actually think the consumer is the important one. I wonder where all the consumer advocates are? There is a true lack of training on many areas that puts the consumer in a position of feeling like the bad guy when we expect our money's worth. Complain too much and if you need to use the dealer, etc., in the future you are out of luck!! You end up the bottom of the list.
Hope you are able to gain some satisfaction, but if not, chalk it up to life. After all, if there is no warranty, there is no problem, according to the head office.
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Almost certainly it's only an aesthetic issue for ever.
Regardless, one should be able to easily remove the foam core and work the wrinkles to the edges/corners of the foam where they wont be visible (the sooner this is done the easier it will be as everything starts stiffening up as it ages).
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Fixed your link (http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x20/bonecho1/picture2001.jpg)
Tom on here might be able to help you out some as he works for Arctic
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Most cover warranties will only warranty the stitching.
I have no idea what spa or cover you have but I see no reason for a warranty claim. It could be easily argued that you caused the problem.
If the warranty does not state that the issue is warrantable you should not expect it to be.
Don't be surprised by a lack of professionalism. Honestly, there are few managers, etc., out there that have any idea how to manage. And there are few dealers and retail personell who actually think the consumer is the important one. I wonder where all the consumer advocates are? There is a true lack of training on many areas that puts the consumer in a position of feeling like the bad guy when we expect our money's worth. Complain too much and if you need to use the dealer, etc., in the future you are out of luck!! You end up the bottom of the list.
Customers are not always right and sometimes when they hear the word no they equate it poor customer service, which is definitely not right.
Not trying to defend the company but from the post this sounds like one of those cases.IMO
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Though I agree with what you said about customer service Gary, I can't say that I've seen a cover look like this before. It certainly isn't what I would consider "normal" nor can I imagine how the customer could cause this?
Warranties are defects of materials and workmanship and if I was still in retail, I would warranty the skin of this cover and replace it.
Is this an Arctic spa?
Steve
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The problem is not the skin, but the poly wrap under the skin sealing the foam.
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That's true...forgot about that! ;)
In your wise opinion Doc, would a heat source fix this and eliminate the wrinkles in the poly?
If not, I'm still of the opinion that the entire cover should be replaced then. I strongly agree with what MRB said about the "aesthetic appeal".
Steve
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Though I agree with what you said about customer service Gary, I can't say that I've seen a cover look like this before. It certainly isn't what I would consider "normal" nor can I imagine how the customer could cause this?
Warranties are defects of materials and workmanship and if I was still in retail, I would warranty the skin of this cover and replace it.
Is this an Arctic spa?
Steve
Hey Steve: I've certainly seen a cover that looked just like that. In my early hot tub years, I foolishly bought a replacement cover from an online outfit (not RH/Dr. Spa) to save a few bucks. My cover looked just like this and it was caused by the crappy job they did with the blue poly (?) film used to seal up the foam core. It was obviously who ever assembled the parts didn't give a d*mn. And because it was taped up, I could not easily straighten it out. The other thing I remember about this cover was that within about year and a half, that inner (blue) film just began to fall apart. That's when I went back to the dealer to buy my third cover, this time the factory replacement cover.
Now I know better and would go to Dr. Spa, but not then. :)
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My guess is that the poly wasn't put on very tight and a few wrinkles formed. It should be relatively easy to work the wrinkles to the corner edge of the foam and tape them in place, solving the aesthetic problem.
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Got that MRB... just iron them wrinkles to the corners and you should be fine! ;)
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Hey Steve: I've certainly seen a cover that looked just like that. In my early hot tub years, I foolishly bought a replacement cover from an online outfit (not RH/Dr. Spa) to save a few bucks. My cover looked just like this and it was caused by the crappy job they did with the blue poly (?) film used to seal up the foam core. It was obviously who ever assembled the parts didn't give a d*mn. And because it was taped up, I could not easily straighten it out. The other thing I remember about this cover was that within about year and a half, that inner (blue) film just began to fall apart. That's when I went back to the dealer to buy my third cover, this time the factory replacement cover.
Now I know better and would go to Dr. Spa, but not then. :)
I guess if a company produces crap and that's their standard for quality, then this wouldn't be a warranty issue...
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Thanks for the objective opinions everyone. I wanted to guage whether or not my expectations are too high. It appears not.
The warranty reads as follows:
"Arctic Spas warrants the cover against malfunctions due to defects in materials and workmanship for three years. Includes parts and on site labour necessary to repair. (Normal wear and tear not included in this warranty).
Remember, although the wrinkles are not specifically mentioned in the warranty, neither is stitching. Garry's comment that indicates "Most cover warranties will only warranty the stitching" leads me to believe that warranty coverage on covers are ad hoc, at best. Perhaps the wording is vague to allow manufacturers to pick and choose which defects they wish to cover.
I wanted to post the head office response to my e-mail, requesting that they reconsider replacing the cover under warranty, however, when I spoke to Scott (from Arctic), he advised me that he would not be responding to the e-mail. Frankly, I am still trying to get my head around this level of customer service. I paid more for the hot tub to begin with because I didn't want to deal with small issues like this. Needless to say, I'm not a happy customer.
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MRB, for what it's worth I agree with you. It's a new cover and the workmanship is defective. The cover shoudn't wrinkle like that. And I agree 100% with you, astechics are important. This is a showpiece in your backyard, that you just spent $$$$$$. if the wrinkles aren't a big deal, then let the dealer take the cover and use it on his demo model, and you take the cover off the demo model. ;) then we'll see if it's a big deal or not. ;D
I think Doc is right (he should be, he makes and sells covers for a living), you should be able to unzip the cover and work out the wrinkles in the foam wrap and retape it.
Doc, would you recomend taking the foam boards out and working the wrinkles out and the put them back in, or do think trying to work the wrinkles out while the foam is still in the vinly cover?
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Tom on here might be able to help you out some as he works for Arctic
Since the issue is already being considered by the warranty manager, I have nothing to contribute.
I am curious to know, though, if the liner is poly or mylar.
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The core would have to be removed.
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it sounds like Arctic is a pain when it comes to the warranty.Try what drew said with the dealer and let us know.
John 104 degrees
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Although the wrinkles seem to only be an aesthetic issue, I bet they will change the way the cover wears over time. The raised lines will become more visible and eventually probably fade more than the rest of the cover. I am thinking of my boat seats... :-/
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Boni I have a 2 1/2 yr old Hot springs cover on my Envoy that is doing the same thing. It began to show when it was 10-12 months old and continued to get worse. It shows much more than yours does. I havent said anything to my dealer about it because I didn't think it would be covered under warranty. Chas would this issue be covered under HS warrantry. Good luck with your warranty mgr
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Boni I have a 2 1/2 yr old Hot springs cover on my Envoy that is doing the same thing. It began to show when it was 10-12 months old and continued to get worse. It shows much more than yours does. I havent said anything to my dealer about it because I didn't think it would be covered under warranty. Chas would this issue be covered under HS warrantry. Good luck with your warranty mgr
Not after 2 1/2 years.
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Remember, although the wrinkles are not specifically mentioned in the warranty, neither is stitching. Garry's comment that indicates "Most cover warranties will only warranty the stitching" leads me to believe that warranty coverage on covers are ad hoc, at best. Perhaps the wording is vague to allow manufacturers to pick and choose which defects they wish to cover.
I agree 100%, most cover warranties are not worth the paper they are written on.
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I agree 100%, most cover warranties are not worth the paper they are written on.
As with any industry, some individual dealers and manufacturers are better than others. Arctic has always had a reputation for looking after thier customers so this just may be a weak dealer by the sounds of it. They have to first WANT to fix the problem and make it right if they are having issues with head office trying to replace this under warranty. The right thing to do is get this replaced for you period! If they don't think it's that bad, switch it with a floor model as mentioned.
I dunno Tom... it doesn't sound to me like the warranty manager is too interested as they aren't responding via email. I prefer a "hard copy" of anything relating to warranty and would want an email myself... What's your opinion on the look of this cover Tom? Is this concidered exceptable for an Arctic spa?
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My opinion is to wait and see what happens and if nothing is done call Arctic and ask for the head honcho. Ask who it is to get a name and make sure you get to that person.
Be nice and polite and explain how you can send him pictures. If you need to get to this point I would explain how disappointed you are and how as their warranty shows materials and workmanship and obviously this is inferior to the quality they are supposed to have. Like I said - be nice, it usually works better than nasty ... unless you need to.
I'll reserve my version of nasty once you report back on the results; hopefully it won't get to that!
I've called the presidents of a few companies in my time and usually they get things resolved fairly quickly.
Good luck!
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Since the issue is already being considered by the warranty manager, I have nothing to contribute.
I am curious to know, though, if the liner is poly or mylar.
Tom,
Since you are an "officer" of Arctic I find this statement interesting and sad.
I have worked for a large corporation and anything that was brought up to our attention by a customer was something that needed to be addressed regardless if it was my issue or not. I understand that this might not be the correct place but it sounds like Arctic is an uncaring company ... Warranty manager not wanting to respond to email and another Arctic manager washing his hands of it. Is this something that will be told to a customer and not honored.
Over the years that I've been here I come to believe that Arctic was a great company but it seems that it's just a company. We spend a lot of money on these things and hope they last and look good for years.
Please take this to your CEO - This looks really bad to a potential customer. If I was shopping for a tub, I probably wouldn't buy an Arctic. I bought Artesian and they might not be "the best" but when I contacted the factory and spoke to them - they came through. As a matter of fact they had the person who dropped the ball call me directly and apologize. I was happy with the way I was treated. I would buy another Artesian today.
Please look at the Emerald Spa thread about Marquis ... pretty darn good.
Vinny
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Since the issue is already being considered by the warranty manager, I have nothing to contribute.
I am curious to know, though, if the liner is poly or mylar.
My bad folks. I responded to this before the brand of spa was disclosed. The typical Arctic cover uses mylar, not polyethylene, as a vapor barrier. I know very little about using mylar in this application and any advise I may have given on this subject previously may not be applicable to mylar.
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Not after 2 1/2 years.
Not necessarily. My cover came with a three year warranty.
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Not after 2 1/2 years.
How long is the warranty on a Hot Springs cover?
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As with any industry, some individual dealers and manufacturers are better than others. Arctic has always had a reputation for looking after their customers so this just may be a weak dealer by the sounds of it. They have to first WANT to fix the problem and make it right if they are having issues with head office trying to replace this under warranty. The right thing to do is get this replaced for you period! If they don't think it's that bad, switch it with a floor model as mentioned.
I dunno Tom... it doesn't sound to me like the warranty manager is too interested as they aren't responding via email. I prefer a "hard copy" of anything relating to warranty and would want an email myself... What's your opinion on the look of this cover Tom? Is this concidered exceptable for an Arctic spa?
Many dealer, manufacturers and service companies will eat the cost of replacing covers that the cover manufacturer will not.
It should be black or white but the way cover warranties are written they leave a lot open to interpretation. This is not fair the dealers and spa manufactures as like a stated before they will eat the warranty as they know there is no recourse with the cover folks.
I have eaten the cost of many a spa covers.
Ideal covers is one of the worst to deal with.
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How long is the warranty on a Hot Springs cover?
2 years as of last year if I remember correctly. Sorry, can't verify as I don't have the info handy.
Only cover I know of with a 3 year warranty is Sunstar covers, but we only sell those for after-market.
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2 years as of last year if I remember correctly. Sorry, can't verify as I don't have the info handy.
Only cover I know of with a 3 year warranty is Sunstar covers, but we only sell those for after-market.
My Sundance cover came with a three year warranty. It is made by Ideal. It is five years old this month so warranty is not an issue for me anymore though the cover is holding up well.
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Update: I stopped in at my local dealer last week before heading out on vacation. I had a somewhat standoffish conversation with the sales manager who is familiar with my complaint. He indicated that he would send someone out and try removing the affected core and flipping it over.
After thinking about it, I called him back to advise that this really isn't a satisfactory solution. He indicated that had requested a new core for that side of the cover and that it might take a couple of weeks...if he could swing it. I'll wait to see if he comes through.