Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: D.P. Roberts on June 07, 2007, 06:57:33 pm
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Almost everyone who has shopped for a hot tub has looked for an independent, objective source of information on tubs, like Consumer Reports. However, Consumer Reports has never reviewed hot tubs. According to their web site, here's why:
"Products not yet tested -- As reader interest in these products increases, we hope to be able to offer information.
* Hot tubs
* Jacuzzis
* Spas
* Swimming pools and equipment"
I edited some products off the list, but you can see that some readers have already suggested that they review spas- so many that Consumer Reports has tubs on their radar. So, basically they're saying that hot tubs are "on the bubble" of things people are interested, but not quite enough people have asked them to review them.
Let's change that. If every spa shopper wrote to Consumer Reports, along with every dealer who thought their brand would stand up to the scrutiny, they'd review hot tubs. Here's the link to send your feedback to Consumer Reports:
http://custhelp.consumerreports.org/cgi-bin/consumerreports.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php
You can select "Suggestion" or "Letter to the Editor" in the subject box. Let's bug them to death until they review hot tubs!
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OK, D.P., I wrote to CR before and requested that they evaluate Hot Tubs, and I just completed the annual survey that they use to evaluate products for 2007. In the comment section, I asked them again to do an review of spas...So maybe we can get them to evaluate tubs, but I bet they will end up with the same conclusions that we do... ;) either that or they will make us all mad ;D ;D
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I got a response from them today. It included the following:
"I was delighted to receive your suggestion for a future report that you'd
like to see published on Hot tubs/spas. I'd like you to know that I have
forwarded your correspondence to the appropriate editors and technicians
for their review and consideration for a possible future report. From
correspondence like yours, we get great story ideas, as well as a
first-hand feel of the type of information our subscribers want.
Although we're affiliated in no way, to possibly obtain the information you
are looking for, you may wish to contact the National Spa and Pool
Institute, 2111 Eisenhower Avenue, Alexandria, VA 22314, phone:
1-703-838-0083, fax: 1-703-549-0493, URL: www.nspi.org. The NSPI are
members of the spa and pool industry who are concerned with public and
residential swimming pools, spas and hot tubs. Their goals are to raise
spa and pool industry standards, expand interest and the use of swimming
pools, spas and hot tubs, and to achieve uniformity in federal, state, and
local regulations affecting swimming pool, spa, and hot tub operations."
Yeah, it was formish, but they read it enough to give me a link to the NSPI. So, maybe some good will come out of this.
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Of course NSPI is no more. It was replaced with the APSP, The Association of Pool and Spa Professionals. ;)
http://www.theapsp.org/1/index.aspx
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NSPI went bankrupt how many years ago?
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just a thought but do you really think Consumer reports could do a good job with tubs,...my reason for questioning is that unlike cars that have annual sales of about 17 million just in the US....spa sales for the US right now "seem" to be in the 400,000 unit range and that is very very small in the economy's big picture and than you have so so many manufactures and you have so many different models.....my concern that if they did test it would be extremely difficult for them to really make sure it was apples to apples and that it would be highly doubtful that they could touch enough of the makers to make it fair....this is not a knock on consumer reports nor am I suggesting that it would not be a good to have some new source for tub testing....its just that spas are unique in that they are a large ticket item but they really have a very small market share when compared to other industries and how many people really have an interest
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I agree with you Mendo, though it would be so nice if there were a way for tubs to be independently rated, it is a small market. I do with that it were more feasible to "quantify" tub qualities, though. A car has a range of MPG listed on the sticker- I wish that in tub shopping there could be KWH usage tables and R ratings on covers, and sone or decibel ratings on motors.....but that is not very realistic either!
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I agree with you Mendo, though it would be so nice if there were a way for tubs to be independently rated, it is a small market. I do with that it were more feasible to "quantify" tub qualities, though. A car has a range of MPG listed on the sticker- I wish that in tub shopping there could be KWH usage tables and R ratings on covers, and sone or decibel ratings on motors.....but that is not very realistic either!
I think it's very realistic to do. They can do if for cars, why not tubs?
Do you the MPG rattings on cars are bullet proof? They are guesstimates, but at least they are all measuredusng the same yardstick.
Sure there are a lot of factors with KWH and energy efficeinty, , but just as many with MPG. they could come up with a reasonable guage to indicate electrical costs. but the thing is, MPG are required by the goverment, no?
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I think it's very realistic to do. They can do if for cars, why not tubs?
Do you the MPG rattings on cars are bullet proof? They are guesstimates, but at least they are all measuredusng the same yardstick.
Sure there are a lot of factors with KWH and energy efficeinty, , but just as many with MPG. they could come up with a reasonable guage to indicate electrical costs. but the thing is, MPG are required by the goverment, no?
Drew,
Those are not guesstimates for mpg...the car industry is so regulated that here in Calif for example if a DMV inspector goes onto to a new car lot and the MSRP sticker is not in the vehicle (usually found on the window) it is a $10,000.00 fine and they can chain the doors closed to the dealership on the spot. There is not the demand nor the dollars in the spa industry to match what is in autos. Auto production is so far reaching into the economy that it effects the cost of carpet pad as a example. And the auto makers tell you what car class a model fits in. Spas are just a much more narrow market.
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I think it's very realistic to do. They can do if for cars, why not tubs?
Do you the MPG rattings on cars are bullet proof? They are guesstimates, but at least they are all measuredusng the same yardstick.
Sure there are a lot of factors with KWH and energy efficeinty, , but just as many with MPG. they could come up with a reasonable guage to indicate electrical costs. but the thing is, MPG are required by the goverment, no?
I for one would not want to see a KWH rating unless it was followed in bold print with all the possible things that will affect the KWH.
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The Calif energy commission would seem to be a way to address some of the questions raised by Drew, but so far it has been far less than anything that one would hope would seen as credible.
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Another way to look at it. Look at all the cars that CR tests. Take the model that sells the fewest. More people buy that particular model of car, than all the spas sold annually. Add to that the frequency the average person buys a new car, compared to the frequency they buy a replacement spa, and there just isn't enough demand to do the testing.
It still comes down to $$$. What items tested will sell more magazines?
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I have always found it some what odd that many want compare spas to autos....I mean I have pointed to it myself as a reference point at times when others also mention it...but having spent 15 years in the auto industry it is simply nothing like spas....other than both are large ticket items....and I have mentioned before that it is far easier for most to shop for a new vehicle than a spa because most people have much more personal knowledge about autos than spas.....I was a shopper myself when I got into the business and it was based on the difficulty I experienced in looking for a spa.....I certainly appreciate the desire for a credible point of reference when spa shopping but to have it mirror the auto world is not realistic, simply based on the dollars involved.
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My car analogy was only a loose one. I guess it works as an analogy because almost everyone has bought a car, so it is familiar, and it is fairly big ticket, but that is it.
As for MPG and KWH ratings, I'm sure that car manufacturers would not put that stuff on the sticker if they did not have to. And as nice as it would be to have similar info for spas, it would take a lot of time and money for them to create controlled experiments to come up with valid numbers, and I dont want that extra cost to go to me, the purchaser. So its not so much that it CANT be done, just that its is probably not realistically useful.
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Anne,
I did not even notice your reference to autos....the reason behind my post was that many people would like to see many of the same type of resources that exist for autos also apply to spas and it gets mentioned often the problem is that the market is just to small for spas and the dollars are simply not there....
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So someone just needs to broaden the market! A spa for every house!
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So someone just needs to broaden the market! A spa for every house!
Yes! Put it into National Building Code. Write your congressman. :D
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As for MPG and KWH ratings, I'm sure that car manufacturers would not put that stuff on the sticker if they did not have to.
Bingo. The government made the auto makers put the MPG stickers on the cars.
The auto industry sure didn't do it out of the goodness of their heart.
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Yes! Put it into National Building Code. Write your congressman. :D
I do wonder why you can buy almost any household appliance- which are simply plugged in via a 110 outlet- as part of a home loan when a house is built, but a permanently-wired "portable" tub is not. I'm not sure if you CAN buy a tub when you buy a house or not, but I've not seen it happen around here.
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I do wonder why you can buy almost any household appliance- which are simply plugged in via a 110 outlet- as part of a home loan when a house is built, but a permanently-wired "portable" tub is not. I'm not sure if you CAN buy a tub when you buy a house or not, but I've not seen it happen around here.
You probably could. Bet it happens in the upscale market at least.
That said, I don't think I'd want to get a hot tub thru a home builder. For the money, you'd likely get a better deal on your own. On our last home build, for what the builder wanted for a builder's grade central a/c unit with the minimum energy rating, I got a premum brand unit with much higher efficiency.
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I've been thinking about this post, and while I am a Consumer Reports fan (my only claim to fame was being in the magazine a couple of years ago!), I don't think you could get nearly as much information or as good a review as you get on this forum. Consumer Reports has to set criteria for testing that is reproducible and that can work for each item tested. For example, some tubs have circ pumps, others don't, some jet systems are unique to the manufacturer. That evaluation is totally up to the user. They could evaluate filtration systems, but think about how water chemistry and methods can effect clean water. That parameter, in itself, changes things.
On here we have dealers, owners, technicians, and folks who just want to share information and ask thought provoking questions. It might take a bit more time to research on here, but the ability to ask questions is more valuable (to me) than having someone's review in print.
If Consumer Reports said Hot Springs was far and away the very best hot tub...would that really matter to someone who loved the feel of the jets in a Coleman? We have also established (on here) that the dealer is a crucial element in a successful purchase, how would Consumer Reports evaluate that aspect? :-/
So I guess I have changed my mind, I don't want Consumer Reports to rate hot tubs. My husband has a Kia Sportage and CR is giving it thumbs down in several aspects. We love it, it has been issue free and had I read these reviews before purchase, I probably would have stayed away from it. I was happy to report on the annual survey that we had NO problems and would purchase it again. :)
We have the best resource right here... ;)
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We have the best resource right here... ;)
That's true. The most educated customer comes here, and actually LISTENS to the thirty eight people who recommend wet testing tubs before buying, and tell them not to just compare horsepower ratings and number of jets. However, not everyone comes here, or listens to everybody.
I think Consumer Reports could help in several ways. For one, a great number of people are all caught up in whether a particular brand is as high in quality as other brands. I may be oversimplifying here, but I think most people on this board would say that at least a dozen manufacturers make quality tubs, and you're better off wet testing and working with the dealer to find the right tub for you, rather than worrying whether a certain brand is the equal of another. If Consumer Reports ranked them, those spa shoppers would have something to go on.
Secondly, CR might be able to do some objective testing, especially in the area of efficiency. Consumers could actually get a reasonable estimate for how much their hot tub is going to cost to run. They'd be able to address the "full foam" debate with some respectability. They might even shed some objective light on the Costco tub issue (i.e. delivery, warranty issues, repairs, etc.).
This is not to say that a CR report would be perfect. I really wonder about their "comfort" evaluations, such as "the seats in car A are comfy, but car B needs more thigh support". As a person with short legs, I think that most car seats are too long - they don't seem to get that comfort is a personal issue. Considering how important this idea is for tubs, I think they'd probably get that wrong.
And sometimes- as with home theater speakers, for example- the Consumer Reports methods are so screwed up that all their research becomes counterproductive. Even as I write this, there's a Consumer Reports banner ad along the side of this page, advertising their study of gas grills! What they fail to mention is that charcoal is the only way to grill, and that gas grills are for wimps, losers, and Communists.
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What you are looking for is an easy answer for selecting a Hot Tub, but it doesn't exist! A while back one poster spent hours doing detailed reviews for all of the tubs that he tried. It was a great resource, but limited to his perception and personal evaluations.
He didn't have reliability studies...
Everyone wants to feel like they got a good deal, a quality product and that they made a sensible decision. ;)
Read CR reviews on mattresses and tell me that you can pick your mattress using their review!...Of course you could always try
Whatsthebestmattress.com! ;D
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What you are looking for is an easy answer for selecting a Hot Tub, but it doesn't exist!
Everyone wants to feel like they got a good deal, a quality product and that they made a sensible decision. ;)
That's the problem -those two things DO NOT go together. Everybody wants to find the perfect tub for them, with little to no effort on their part. They just want to pick up a magazine that says "You ought to buy this particular tub", and be done with it. They don't want to take the time and effort to wet test, shop around, etc.
I'm not sure why. Shopping for a tub can be fun. Getting a massage in relaxing, warm water is the "work" required! That's my kind of research! I don't see why people are so hesitant to try it.
Other types of shopping can be far less fun. Take, for example, shopping for a new cell phone. You get to go to the store, listen to an eighteen year old tell you why their phones are Da Bomb, take a phone home, try (and fail) to get a signal since you live out in the boonies, take the phone back, lose $10-$20 in minutes or activation fees, and then go to a new store and try it again. All to replace a basic service that isn't any "fun"whatsoever.
Wait. I've got it.
We need [size=24]OPRAH!![/size]
People - in particular, middle-aged women- want to find books to read. However, they don't want to take the time to find a good one. Instead, they rush out and buy the latest Oprah book the day it's announced. If we could only get Oprah to recommend a certain hot tub every month or two, we'd be set!
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I wish that in tub shopping there could be KWH usage tables and R ratings on covers, and sone or decibel ratings on motors.....but that is not very realistic either!
The Canadian Office of Energy Efficiency is currently looking at this. If they feel that there are enough hot tubs being sold to warrant regulation, they will proceed. The process is expected to take up to three years.
It appears that what is a federal process here is a state-by-state process in America and that California has started the ball rolling.