Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: 2busymom on June 01, 2007, 10:49:17 pm
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Anyone out there buy a value tub and love it? What about you Cost-co, Home Depot, or "Generic" brand tub owners. Do you visit this page, do you share?
I've looked at all the name brands, HS, D1 (really like their style), Caldera, Jacuzzi, Marquis, and Sundance. My stone contractor told me about spas to consider that he could purchase, the Garden Leisure brand. I looked at it and sat in it (of course no wet test) and it looked and felt fine. The price is very low, their warranty and service policies were on line and downloadable. The insulation looks good, and the filtration is similar to the tubs I looked at.
I am seriously thinking about it, and my contractor will take me to one of his customers that installed it (so I might talk her into letting me soak). With a $4-6,000 price difference (downward) I can't think of the downside. At this price, even if I have to replace it in 5 or so years, I will get a newer model with all of the improvements in a shorter time.
I would love to hear from some of you who have made choices that don't necessarily fit into the retail track of spa ownership. Thanks.
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Where do you live? Do you have to worry about higher heating costs due to poor insulation? I couldn't afford a new top name tub and ended up getting a great tub the used route. My brother did the same thing. We are both extremely happy and have had no issues. I personally would reccomend this route.
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I live in Portland, OR, so the weather isn't too severe either way. Good point about the insulation, I will follow up with them. I remember the dealer telling me that it was foam throughout but it's not evident in the owner's manual. I will try to get some other specs.
I'm not too keen on getting a used tub because neither me or my husband are very handy ::) and I worry about some minor repair that we will have to pay a lot for because we can't handle it. But perhaps 1 year or less wouldn't be too bad. How did you get your used tub delivered and set up?
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Ahhh, I'm a former Portlander. Been in SoCal almost 5 years. My parents got their tub, well its been a few years now (maybe 3) but they got it dirt cheap from George Morlan (the water heater king) when they were having a weekend sale to clearance out the last year model. They got a Sweetwater (Sundance) that was the old name for the lower end line for I wanna say $3k. The price I'm sure has gone up, but it might be worth a shot. My parents had one issue in the first year and it was fixed no problem under warranty.
I hired a moving company to move my tub. It cost about $300 but I thought it was worth it as they insure the tub during the transfer.
My brother (in AZ) got a year old Jacuzzi for I think it was $2500 or so. Keep an eye out on Craigslist and just see what you find. Be picky and you might find something as good as new.... a lot of the budget tubs warranties really aren't worth much from what I've heard.
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I agree with Brooke, a quality used tub is a great option. I transported mine myself with a group of friends and a full-size pickup, but I don't particularly recommend it. Many spa companies and some moving companies will transport spas for a $200-400 fee depending on your area and distance. Then you need a licensed electrician to come wire your spa in, the cost of which ranges widely ($400-$1000), and that's a cost you'll need to pay regardless of new or used.
Point taken on the support aspect, I can understand that you want a worry-free experience that you can just enjoy. In this case, often (but not always) a great option is to purchase used tubs directly from a dealer who may sell them with a 90-day or 1-year warranty. A 4 year old Hotsprings, Jacuzzi, D1, etc. still has a ton of life in it and will fall in the price range of a Home Depot-type tub.
Final thought: If you do decide to go the used route, check out Craigslist in your area. Here's a link for Portland with a search for 'hot tub': http://portland.craigslist.org/search/sss?query=hot+tub&minAsk=min&maxAsk=max Buy a reputable brand, which lessens your risk anyway, then buy chemicals from and establish a relationship with your local dealer. If anything does need repair, you'll be ready to get a reasonable service quote.
A couple of the results are great deals.
5 year old Arctic, great shape, $3200. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/for/342670009.html
2 year old Caldera Martinique, also looks great from what can be seen, $3500. http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/for/342635104.html
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My 7 year old noticed your diver being eaten by the shark. We got a big laugh from it! ;D I like your idea about looking for deep sales. I also sent a note to the cheap spa company to give me more info on the insulation.
Yes, we love Portland...and I know George Morlan well. Their is a Designer George Morlan in NW, and they have some incredible items...fun to roam around. Maybe I'll take a field trip there, the Sundance line is the only one I have looked at in person. Might as well totally confuse myself. ::)
Who knew this would be so hard. I just bought a car last week and we made that decision in 4 hours. I've been researching this for 6 weeks! :-[ Oh well it is what it is.
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Hi Matt,
Thanks for the idea and the links. The Artic looks very good. I think I will follow up with the poster. I guess there are multiple ways to get at value, isn't there? :)
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LOL, I bought a car on Sunday and I wasn't even looking. My AC went out on Wednesday... sure enough I bought a new car a few days later on a whim instead of getting it fixed. Yet I searched for a hot tub for over a year.
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Hi Brooke,
That is so funny! ;D I guess we know a little bit about cars (and they're easier to get rid of if it doesn't work out). ::) Given how much hot tubs weigh and how cumbersome they are to move, spending that amount of money and then having it not work out might take a lot of work to get done.
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Hi There,
Yeah hot tub searching is not easy. I have been seaching for a month now. But I think I am finally going to go the used route since it seems to save you a lot of money. I mean if you can save 2-4K on a tub - you could afford to have the entire pump or heater replaced and still be in the positive!
So for myself I am trying to decide on a D1 Lotus Bay that is an 04 model selling for 6900 - I would like to talk the guy down to 6K. I tried his tub and it is in great shape. The other good deal on a tub is from a store - it is a Diplomat for 5K - an 03 model. The 5k includes tax/set-up/delivery. I am going to check that out tonight and if I like it I may be buying it.
But I had been planning to buy new until I realized that you can save a lot on a used tub - you just have to make sure you are diligent and consider who owned the tub, etc...
But it takes time to find a used tub since a lot of the tubs of craigs list are crap - only a few good name brand ones pop up that are less then 4 years old.
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Excellent points and true, nsavarirayan;
I looked again, and there are very few good looking well known tubs on Craig's list. I went to see the Garden Leisure tub in the backyard of my stone contractor. They were a lovely family and his stone work was beautiful. The father sold pools in this company and is co-worker assured him the tub would be a good tub for him (he had been looking at Costco tubs). They were told the utility costs would be around $30 a month (which might be quite high given that my average electric bill is only $60 a month).
Unfortunately they hadn't filled the tub, so I didn't get a chance to hear or see it. I did notice a lot was missing. Like the cover wasn't attached to the tub. When he showed me the speakers (press down and pop up) they sounded very "platisicky" (is that a word? :-?)
Anyway, I liked how it looked, but I don't have a lot of confidence that it would work well. I sure wish it had been filled. (sigh).
Wet tested the Sundance Optima on Saturday, it was very nice. Is it worth $10,000? :-/ Hmmm, that's the $10000 dollar question. :)
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Yeah $10K is a lot of money. But that's the price point of some of the premium quality units- you're looking at ballpark of $7 - 10K, or even more. Plus the costs of site prep, and electrical.
Less expensive spas are less expensive for a reason. One is that they cut corners to keep the costs lower. Cheaper components, less insulation, things like that.
Need service? Who's gonna do that? Costco, et al, do not service hot tubs.
Need advice on water care? For sure Costco won't be able to help you there.
You pay more for a good spa, but you get what you pay for, in my Opinion.
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Yeah $10K is a lot of money. But that's the price point of some of the premium quality units- you're looking at ballpark of $7 - 10K, or even more. Plus the costs of site prep, and electrical.
Less expensive spas are less expensive for a reason. One is that they cut corners to keep the costs lower. Cheaper components, less insulation, things like that.
Need service? Who's gonna do that? Costco, et al, do not service hot tubs.
Need advice on water care? For sure Costco won't be able to help you there.
You pay more for a good spa, but you get what you pay for, in my Opinion.
Hi Brewman,
Yes, I suppose that your are probably right. I do know, however, that the rule of you get what you pay for is sometimes true and sometimes it is not. :-/ I think that as consumers we have to educate ourselves to really understand if this is true or not. I sometimes think that some prices are high because many people will ASSUME that this is true, but there are many examples where this doesn't hold up. ::)
For the Garden Leisure spa, what I learned from their technical services are is that they use fiberglass and thermafoam (whatever that is :-?), but the person couldn't tell me the "R-factor."
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There is a BIG difference between a $5K to $7K spa and a cheapo "value" spa. I see others on here touting the requirement to spend $7K to $10K for a "quality" spa. That is not accurate. You CAN get name-brand, high-quality spa's from mfgs such as Hot Springs (Tiger River products) and Jacuzzi (300-series units) and any number of other respectable mfgs. I do agree howevet that MOST tubs under $5K are not worthy and are also often very expensive to run (due to poor insulation)
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There is a BIG difference between a $5K to $7K spa and a cheapo "value" spa. I see others on here touting the requirement to spend $7K to $10K for a "quality" spa. That is not accurate. You CAN get name-brand, high-quality spa's from mfgs such as Hot Springs (Tiger River products) and Jacuzzi (300-series units) and any number of other respectable mfgs. I do agree howevet that MOST tubs under $5K are not worthy and are also often very expensive to run (due to poor insulation)
I have to mostly agree with this ... I think it depends on your area. When I was shopping (late 2004) I couldn't touch a Tiger River for around $6,000, at least that's the impression that the Hot Springs dealer gave me. Maybe he was hell bent on selling me a more expensive tub. A person bought the sister tub of mine and paid $1000 less than I did ... I'm in NJ and he was in Utah.
Other options are Artesian and Beachcomber, they have lower end spas that their dealers carry. Artesian has different names for their various lines and Beachcomber has the 300 series. I think my dealer was selling an Artesian Promo line for about $3600 (2004 - 2005) ... it looks different than the upper lines but it has dealer support. I went onto Artesian's website and it's not there so maybe they don't sell it anymore but it's worth a try.
I know 1 person who has a Walmart spa and likes it. I don't know how much it costs to run. He recently told me he had to buy new jets and went on-line and got them. I'm not a big used person, I always worry how much "abuse" an item took. For $50 maybe, for $4500 - no way!
Just my $0.02.
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For the Garden Leisure spa, what I learned from their technical services are is that they use fiberglass and thermafoam (whatever that is :-?), but the person couldn't tell me the "R-factor."
I doubt you'll get r-values from any spa.
And the comparison I was making was the big box spas vs the premium brands. I wasn't saying that the value lines of Hot Springs, et al weren't any good.
There are good buys to be had in the premium value models.
Once you buy your spa you'll quickly forget how much it cost anyway.
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HeY I suggest to not be in a hurry - you could get a good deal on a floor model or even a used one if something comes available.
Isn't the 08 models coming out so people should have 07 floor models available for a good deal. You may want to check that out.
But if I didn't go used my second choice was to get the Marguis 741 whic would have cost me 7500 out the door with a quality spa. So there are good brands out these for less then 10K but not really less then 5K.
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Isn't the 08 models coming out so people should have 07 floor models available for a good deal. You may want to check that out.
The '08s should be out in about 8 months.
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Well, I finally got some more info about the insulation...(Energy Index?) It does look a bit higher than what I remember seeing for other spas. The cost of the tub also does not include delivery or installation by the contractor, which also adds costs, so this value may not be as much of a value as it looked initially, but may still be a bit less than retail. I am leaning away from this spa, because when I add up the little add-ons the cost isn't significantly different than some of the other spas I am considering. ::) Oh well... I am going to pick something before summer's up, that's the goal.
ENERGY INDEX
Appliance: Garden Leisure Spas
Water capacity: 350G
Total Pump Amps: 1 x 12/4A (dual speed), 1 x 12A (single speed)
Heater: 4kW @ 240vac
MODEL: 1103 / 1104
How much will this model cost you to run monthly?
$25.00 Based on energy cost of 10c /kWh at ambient temperature of [glow]70 degrees F°[/glow]
(This seems like a pretty light weight test to me)
Average monthly temperature F° 40 50 60 70 80
Estimated monthly cost US$ 33 30 27 25 22
The estimated monthly cost demonstrates energy consumption for using your Garden Leisure Spas every day, at a temperature of 102F°, with the cover off for 20 minutes, both jet pumps on for 20 minutes and filtration system operating 2 hours, twice per day
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Take a look at Marquis Spas, they are built right in Oregon.