Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: umjorge2 on September 25, 2014, 12:14:18 pm
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After butchering the cedar panel siding of my 17 year old tub and tearing out foam to locate several incessant leaks over the last few months, I've found the leaks coming from behind several of the jets where the PVC elbow fitting meets the flex pipe. Whats the best way to fix this? Could I seal it with marine epoxy or some sorta plumbers putty?
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Plast-Aid possibly
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No!!!! The glue is giving up....start thinking of a new tub and make sure you get one that is not fully foamed. And these days they plumb them with 3/4 inch tubing going into barb fittings so you never have to deal with bad glue and foam again.
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Plast-aid will seal it.
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I was looking at plast-aid actually and it looks good. Others have said to cut out the PVC join and put in a new one but that's a lot of work. If a glue/epoxy solution works then that would be great.
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Just make sure to really clean the area well.
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And be prepared to to make MANY more repairs. Sounds like your spa was made right around the time the EPA required a reformulation of PVC glues. The first new formulation at the time, failed to hold over time. If a few joints are failing now, more will come.
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Plast-aid will seal it.
Wow---we can call this the Mickey Mouse forum now
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Wow, Wow - Another helpful post!
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So quickbeam...what is your idea of helpful? Tell him to clean the leaky glue joints well before applying plastaid? Then put a little happy face on the end of it and say good luck?
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Appreciate all the replies. Here's where I'm at so far. I have discovered even more leaks, around 10 in total mostly the same kind of leak I initially described, including a nail that was driven through a section of flex pipe! The things you find when you rip something apart! There is a massive amount of foam to get through and I have to figure out how to put all the wood skirting I've cut back together. Its a huge pain but its gotta be done. Can't deal with leaks in the middle of winter with subfreezing temperatures almost everyday for 5 months. My plan is to seal around every join I can access with a special PVC sealer/epoxy I got from a plumbing store made to fix leaks and even seal the ones that aren't leaking that I've exposed to preventatively stop any future leaks. My tub doesn't have a ton of jets so I'm probably addressing almost half of the joining sections, so I'm hoping that will work. I am running out of time as winter is approaching here in Canada so I need to act fast and need to go with the repair that is the most effective but at the same time the least time consuming. As much as I would like to completely overhaul the plumbing, as I know that would be the proper fix, there just isn't enough time and its not worth it for an old tub either I feel.
Once I'm done with that I need to figure out how to replace the foam I've torn out. I want to use the same type that was in there which was a closed cell spray foam but its expensive. Any ideas/recommendations how to replace foam you've torn out?
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So quickbeam...what is your idea of helpful? Tell him to clean the leaky glue joints well before applying plastaid? Then put a little happy face on the end of it and say good luck?
Well Kev B, I'll tell you what I don't find helpful. I don't find it all helpful when someone else offers a different suggestion than yours and you resort to calling this a "Mickey Mouse forum". I find that childish and a little over the top.
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And what if there's a disagreement over how a repair is done? If one pro through experience, feels plastaid is a hit or miss bandaid, how should they respond to someone suggesting it? Should someone spend 20 minutes of their time (which they're NOT getting paid for, BTW), typing out a FULL explanation about their knowledge, experience and why they think it's a mickey moused repair?
Personally, I think it's a mickey mouse repair, that may or may not work, on a spa that was made during a time when PVC glue was known to be bad, where even now, more and more leaks are being discovered. Would I use plastaid? Sure, if it was going in an area that could be constantly monitored. In an area that's going to be refoamed, sealed in and and hidden? NO WAY IN HE%%! There are some people that firmly believe, if you're going to do it at all, do it right.
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And to say don't buy a well insulated tub next time so you won't have this trouble is ridiculous. So buy a non foamed in tub and spend twice as much on power to run it and have it last for 10 years less. Yep good plan.
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And what if there's a disagreement over how a repair is done? If one pro through experience, feels plastaid is a hit or miss bandaid, how should they respond to someone suggesting it? Should someone spend 20 minutes of their time (which they're NOT getting paid for, BTW), typing out a FULL explanation about their knowledge, experience and why they think it's a mickey moused repair?
Personally, I think it's a mickey mouse repair, that may or may not work, on a spa that was made during a time when PVC glue was known to be bad, where even now, more and more leaks are being discovered. Would I use plastaid? Sure, if it was going in an area that could be constantly monitored. In an area that's going to be refoamed, sealed in and and hidden? NO WAY IN HE%%! There are some people that firmly believe, if you're going to do it at all, do it right.
Not to split hairs, but he didn't call it a "Mickey Mouse Repair". He called the entire forum "Mickey Mouse".
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And to say don't buy a well insulated tub next time so you won't have this trouble is ridiculous. So buy a non foamed in tub and spend twice as much on power to run it and have it last for 10 years less. Yep good plan.
Agree with Tman - the rants against full foamed tubs are also getting a little tiresome.
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Not to split hairs, but ...aka splitting hairs :-)
Depends on how YOU chose to read it and where you chose to put inflection and/or sarcasm.
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Come on Dr. Spa. It’s nothing to do with how I read the post. The post is clear. It says “Wow---we can call this the Mickey Mouse forum now”. That’s a direct quote. So YOU read it how YOU want. I’ll read what it actually says.
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I read it as sarcasm... and find it a bit amusing ;)
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I didn’t read it that way, but that’s O.K. We can just agree to disagree.
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Not to split hairs, but he didn't call it a "Mickey Mouse Repair". He called the entire forum "Mickey Mouse".
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I am new in here, I would like to see this forum give pro advise and not be afraid to tell someone the real deal....you all will notice this guy said he has found 10 more leaks since his initial post. Mickey Mouse advise will hurt the forum.
I have been out of the field for a few weeks so I found this forum and I like it a lot.
Oh, and about full foam tubs....they still suck, but I will take the money in labor....been doing since the 80's and I am about to dig into another Hot Springs which has a shattered manifold this Saturday. 100.00 in parts....lot's in labor. Many so-called repairmen run away from these jobs.
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I read it as sarcasm... and find it a bit amusing ;)
Dr.Spa,
You are the kind of people I associate with, professionals that are not timid about their opinion...based on experience and lot's of blood sweat and tears. And I am sure you are like me....as soon as someone makes a real point, I will be happy to concede if I am wrong.
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In terms of the foam I've torn out (which isn't the entire tub but only where the leaks are), does anybody know how I should replace that? If possible I would like to make those areas somewhat accessible in the future but I don't want to loose any heating efficiency it had before. Efficiency/insulation is the most important thing I'm concerned with, since I'm from Winnipeg Canada and I need not say more about how brutal our winters get!
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Also comments on this kind of repair? http://atlanta.spaxpert.com/difficult-spa-hot-tub-leaks.html
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Appreciate all the replies. Here's where I'm at so far. I have discovered even more leaks, around 10 in total mostly the same kind of leak I initially described, including a nail that was driven through a section of flex pipe! The things you find when you rip something apart! There is a massive amount of foam to get through and I have to figure out how to put all the wood skirting I've cut back together. Its a huge pain but its gotta be done. Can't deal with leaks in the middle of winter with subfreezing temperatures almost everyday for 5 months. My plan is to seal around every join I can access with a special PVC sealer/epoxy I got from a plumbing store made to fix leaks and even seal the ones that aren't leaking that I've exposed to preventatively stop any future leaks. My tub doesn't have a ton of jets so I'm probably addressing almost half of the joining sections, so I'm hoping that will work. I am running out of time as winter is approaching here in Canada so I need to act fast and need to go with the repair that is the most effective but at the same time the least time consuming. As much as I would like to completely overhaul the plumbing, as I know that would be the proper fix, there just isn't enough time and its not worth it for an old tub either I feel.
Once I'm done with that I need to figure out how to replace the foam I've torn out. I want to use the same type that was in there which was a closed cell spray foam but its expensive. Any ideas/recommendations how to replace foam you've torn out?
While I got blasted for saying you could probably fix A LEAK with plast-aid the people suggesting that your tub was made with faulty glue are probably correct. That is a LOT of leaks.
And what if there's a disagreement over how a repair is done? If one pro through experience, feels plastaid is a hit or miss bandaid, how should they respond to someone suggesting it? Should someone spend 20 minutes of their time (which they're NOT getting paid for, BTW), typing out a FULL explanation about their knowledge, experience and why they think it's a mickey moused repair?
Personally, I think it's a mickey mouse repair, that may or may not work, on a spa that was made during a time when PVC glue was known to be bad, where even now, more and more leaks are being discovered. Would I use plastaid? Sure, if it was going in an area that could be constantly monitored. In an area that's going to be refoamed, sealed in and and hidden? NO WAY IN HE%%! There are some people that firmly believe, if you're going to do it at all, do it right.
I didn't see Kev B disagree over how a repair is done, I just saw him say the glue is giving up and todays tubs don't have those issues. A poor statement at best just indicating he "spoke" and you "best listen". And true to that anyone else that said something else he tried to belittle them.
I didn't read anything about the area being re-foamed from the op. Some people do re-foam the repaired area some don't but for a single jet repair on your own tub I find a product like Plast-aid an acceptable risk. If it didn't work I could then do the full repair. If I was a contractor working on someone else's tub I would never do anything but the full repair because that is what they would be paying for. I'm just offering the same thought process I use for my own work on my stuff as this forum doesn't seem to be for contractors working on customers tubs but for individuals working on their own stuff. If I want to try a short cut on MY stuff I consider that my risk and my business.
Nobody need do what I do, I am just offering suggestions. But I fixed my pump when I was told to get another one. I fixed my electronics by replacing my molex connector when nobody else seemed to have seen such a problem although it is probably a common issue on most Sundance tubs. I ran my own 220 although it seems to be stressed to have an electrician do it. After all it's extremely complicated because it has (dare I say it) TWO hot wires. OMG I let the cat out of the bag now everyone knows.
This is NOT rocket science
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Youy know we hjust gave op on a 20 yr old "creative energy" heat exchanger tub because we could not find a techy to repair the computer card that tolod the motors when to turn on and off---it was a great tub--but sometimes old needs to bew replaced by new----if this guy has a tub 17 yrs old and more than 10 leaks---he should scrape ALL crap off and repair EVERY glued joint---or he may be doing it over time the rest of his life
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Years of experience tells me that water always wins. You either fix it right the first time, or you can repeatedly address the issue until you do it right.
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Well I spent the weekend getting the leaks fixed. I used weld-on 810 and globbed it good around every joint I could find, leaking or not. This stuff is suppose to withstand pressure and is made for leaks so I need to go by good faith that this will solve the problem. Here's what I used http://www.weldon.com/pdf/weldon/WeldOn_pb_810_2013.pdf. One trick I used is I stuck a vacuum inside a jet to create a suction near any leak so that it would suck in any epoxy into the joint. Don't know if it did but it doesn't hurt to try. Any who theres just no way I could repair the leaks by cutting out the flex tubes. They are so old and stiff its impossible to work with. I tried to fix the nail hole leak by cutting the pipe and putting a coupler on and I wish I didn't. It was an absolute nightmare to deal with and not I'm not sure if its on right. How on earth am I suppose to bend the pipe enough to slip on the coupler? I found that out the hard way anyways. I heated up the pipe too but it was still very hard to move and felt like I was going to break something any moment.
Just letting the epoxy cure then its time to fill the tub and hope for the best! One other kind of leak I came across was around a jet housing. The silicone that was there had come loose and was leaking where the pipe meets the tub shell. I removed the jet wall fitting (the piece that threads into the jet housing) to get at the area. What type of sealant should I use there? The same silicone that was there before? Heres a photo.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/umjorge2/IMG_0964_zpsd319e5be.png) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/umjorge2/media/IMG_0964_zpsd319e5be.png.html)
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umjorge2, welcome to the service world that we all find challenging. Yes, as age advances, flex hose becomes rigid and there is no flex. The best way to apply a coupler would be to remove as much as the flex hose as you can to give you the flexibility of applying the coupler. As you may have discovered, not all applications are simple. As simple as repairs may look, it is a mental process also when working in tight spaces with multiple connections like tee's and manifolds.
As for the jet housing that you have pictured, I would suggest a new jet body be used, as it will be very difficult to close the stress/age crack.
While this may not be the case in your particular situation, things of this nature can be caused by filling a hot tub with hot water causing thermal affects to plastic parts. I once experienced a tub leak at the light fitting that I never experienced before. The nut holding the fitting to the shell literally cracked and released the tension holding it tight. When I discussed my discovery with the owner, I learned that he would fill it with the inside hose coming from the hot water tap. That water is around 112 degrees or more, and thermal affects can soften the tensile strength of plastic, causing the nut to snap, as in this situation.
My response to all regarding the life expectancy of a hot tub is 20 years. The only thing that causes a tub to be at the end of its life is: 1) the potential of a crack in the shell which I have never witness in 30 years, or, 2) plumbing failures that lead to discovery of multiple leaks caused by age.
I believe you are approaching that 20 year time frame. You have made valiant efforts to solve the problem, and hopefully you have added some life back to the hot tub, only time will tell.
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Thanks for the advice. There isn't a crack its a just a gap where the old silicone use to be. The wall fitting is suppose to suck in the pipe against the tub shell when its tightened with silicone there but I'm wondering what silicone to use.
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Plain old ordinary silicone seal (NOT silicone adhesive).
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WE just did a start up on our Sundance Optima and I had a short talk with the Tub technician ----on leaks he implied that Sundance went to a positive fastener as well as glue at the point where the pvc tubing enters the tub---pvc to jet sconce if you will. His opinion was that the chemicals react with the glue over time and the glue fails.
Clover brings up a good point too that thermal expansion and contraction has an effect immediately and over time.
I would conclude that either issue could cause failure (leaks) but both would raise that possibility.
Are there any test/studies of glue reacting to chemicals and thermal coefficients of expansion?
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In this case David, the pain of experience has confirmed in the late 90's, the EPA mandated changes to anything resulting in emissions into the upper atmosphere that would deplete the ozone layer. This included glue whether it is for spas or Formica laminates. In doing so, they caused the properties of glue to change, affecting the long term, time tested, applications in multiple industries. It is commonly know in the industry, the glue is at fault.
As for your service tech's advice going to a positive fastener, all manufacturers now use a pressure fit to a ribbed fitting that is pressure clamped as well. Some may add the complication of glue allowing the vinyl hose to slide onto the ribbed fitting easily during the manufacturing process. This is of little consequence unless you have freeze damage requiring manifold replacement making it more difficult to make such a repair.
I would add, your tech's speculation about chemical seepage, which would be a water leak, is not the case. There is no water, or chemicals for that matter, that should be leaking from the connections. I believe his comment to be idle conversation of what he may think, which indicates he was not in the industry during the late 90's. Just a guess.
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Good points all!
on point 3 I think he was referring to the chemicals in the water having a long term affect on the glued fittings---
I would guess from your response that no mfg'r has come up with a glue that works
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Just letting the epoxy cure then its time to fill the tub and hope for the best! One other kind of leak I came across was around a jet housing. The silicone that was there had come loose and was leaking where the pipe meets the tub shell. I removed the jet wall fitting (the piece that threads into the jet housing) to get at the area. What type of sealant should I use there? The same silicone that was there before? Heres a photo.
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/umjorge2/IMG_0964_zpsd319e5be.png) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/umjorge2/media/IMG_0964_zpsd319e5be.png.html)
If you go with silicone you may wish to buy some "spray" silicone and spray it first. If you do that it gets in all cracks and crevices. Let it sit for 24 hours then spray it again, another 24 hours and spray it a third time. At this point while the 3rd spray is still wet fill it with 100% silicone. This will be your best possible seal with silicone. Spray silicone would be like "Flex Seal". The additional filler silicone makes sure to give you a great bond.
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Good points all!
on point 3 I think he was referring to the chemicals in the water having a long term affect on the glued fittings---
I would guess from your response that no mfg'r has come up with a glue that works
David, your guess would be wrong. Bad glue was never clearly identified by manufacturers as the origin of the problem at the time. They kept their lips tight, as the industry dealers and service people had to deal with the developing problems 3 to 5 years later. We would fix one leak on the right side, fill it with (cold) water and bingo, the next day our leak was on the left side, and so it went. We knew something was wrong but didn't know if it was offshore pvc, etc. Speculation abounded amongst the dealers. While it was alleged that we were the only dealer experiencing such problems, the stories began to spread across the country leading to the scope of the problem.
The glue used in the late 90's was a ticking time bomb that manifested the problem 3-5 years after the tub being manufactured. That put discoveries in the early 2000's, many of them covered under the manufacturer's warranty. Common sense dictates, the best solution to correct the problem was to eliminate the glue, and thus, vinyl hose, ribbed fittings, pressure clamps, and for some manufactures a dab of glue for insurance against leaking (paranoia) as well as facilitating easily slipping onto the fittings in the manufacturing process. As you could imagine, this involved not only the spa manufacturer, but their suppliers as well, who had to remanufacture their jets and tub attachments to comply with the ribbed fittings. This was not a small problem, nor was it a simple solution that included multiple businesses.
While spa manufacturers don't make their glue, obviously, the glue industry was hard at work seeking solutions to solve the root cause of such failures, and as a result, we all continue to use glue today. However there is no reason for manufacturers to go back to the old methods, when the new methods were deemed to be potentially "bullet proof", an all of their attachments had been remanufactured. With all of the manufactured products used in all of the different climates, you can imagine how the changing thermal conditions can exacerbate the problem causing good glue fittings to fail years later.
I hope this clarifies the issue that were at hand. The Hot Tub Industry
The problem was much larger than just the spa industry, as it affected the counter top industry, cabinet makers, and any other industry using glue to bond materials together, many of which never experienced failures like the spa industry did.
Addressing the issues of chemicals causing some sort of deterioration, the chemicals are in the water, the fittings are not subject to leaking, so there is no way for the chemicals to come in contact with the glued fittings to cause any ill effect.
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Let's see---glued fittings fail, glue was regulated and certain toxins were eliminated, the new formula glue still eventually leaks--and is said here not to be a good as previously, mfg'rs have resorted to "Positive" attachment's in lieu and in league with glue, leaks still occur----how is my "Guess no mfg'r has come up with a glue that works"---wrong? (I reserve the right to rethink this issue)
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The chemicals are in the water---the water--laced with chemicals---is in the fittings---how can there not be an effect--for every cause there is an effect.?
I don't agree.
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The current glue is just fine, as good as the glue in the early 90's.
PVC glue works by literally melting/dissolving the PVC, causing to weld together (so to speak). In the late 90's the EPA mandated that VOC's be reduced. The first reformulated glues, for about the first year, are what caused all the failure. After that, the glue manufacturers finally got the formula right, and it's been just fine since.
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Leaks happen from poor preparation. Most spa's do not have major leak problem these days, cheap end more than the High end spas maybe have 1 or 2 out 50 might have a major break down, but again from poor preparation from the kid at the factory. QC will only catch so many, but if it happens to one on the line that day, it will happen to ten. Out of the 100 plus we sell a year, I get maybe 4 leakers a year from spa's older that 7 years. Usually a pump seal or a bad check valve from an ozonator. A lot of times it's a bleeder valve/barbed fitting under stress on a wet end, just like yours. Very rarely is it a glued fitting. Jet wise it is usually a fitting not tightened down properly that has backed off on the jet back. Waterfalls seem to fail because some fat chick planted her a-- on it and it broke.
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Let's see---glued fittings fail, glue was regulated and certain toxins were eliminated, the new formula glue still eventually leaks--and is said here not to be a good as previously, mfg'rs have resorted to "Positive" attachment's in lieu and in league with glue, leaks still occur----how is my "Guess no mfg'r has come up with a glue that works"---wrong? (I reserve the right to rethink this issue)
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The chemicals are in the water---the water--laced with chemicals---is in the fittings---how can there not be an effect--for every cause there is an effect.?
I don't agree.
DavidMc, until you live it, or learn it, you don't know it. What you have repeated in your words, is not what I said in my words. Your perception in how you view things is somewhat distorted and lacking insight.
I am sorry you don't understand the history I thought would be informative. But then, you perpetuate your lack of understanding.
Your guess is exactly that, a guess. But, it is one that exposes the lack of knowledge, or understanding behind the facts that we have lived and learned from, leaving you to disagree with what we know. This is your prerogative, so it becomes pointless for any of us to try to be helpful.
Best wishes in your hot tubing experience. May your karma reflect your experience in life.
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(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d11/umjorge2/IMG_0964_zpsd319e5be.png) (http://s32.photobucket.com/user/umjorge2/media/IMG_0964_zpsd319e5be.png.html)
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If you go with silicone you may wish to buy some "spray" silicone and spray it first. If you do that it gets in all cracks and crevices. Let it sit for 24 hours then spray it again, another 24 hours and spray it a third time. At this point while the 3rd spray is still wet fill it with 100% silicone. This will be your best possible seal with silicone. Spray silicone would be like "Flex Seal". The additional filler silicone makes sure to give you a great bond.
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This is a joke right? I love running across people like you that give up and call me out....my labor rate goes way up! Blind leading the blind in here. I was at the car wash the other day and laughed my *** off when I saw a guy who had his rims sprayed with flex seal watch it fall off.
I was on a job not long ago where the guy used a full can of the magical spray silicone....you think cleaning old foam off the pipes is a pain,try that.
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Clover
You seem to spend a lot of time getting upset--my Karma is in fine shape---when I was an active worker I managed 140 to 180 men and women --and we reached our goals---99% of the time. You cannot do that without knowing how to listen, how to be critical and how to resolve issues. On every project tho there was one person that gummed up the works and they either were motivated to see the light or were carnage.
When you say " the chemicals are in the water, the fittings are not subject to leaking, so there is no way for the chemicals to come in contact with the glued fittings "---that statement makes no sense! Every thought in that sentence is contradictory---
------We are talking here about leaking fittings--and you say they are not subject to leaking--amazing
------The water is laced with chemicals and you say there is no way for that chemically laced water to come in contact with glued fittings! Amazing
The quest here for most of us is knowledge in one form or another ---not one-upmanship.
For me on this subject the question is why do fittings leak, is it vibration, chemical interaction, faulty glue, ---there is a reason but that reason has not been defined yet.
One post said that the "glue"---melted the pvc and that the process was actually a melting and fusing of the pvc---a welding if you will---I am not so sure of that yet--I think some glues do that to some materials but not all---so that is worth looking in to --don'
t you think?
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The chemicals in the water aren't going to cause a properly glued PVC joint to fail.
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"Amazing", Yes, this really is.
But then, explain to me, presuming there are over 100 water tight glue joints in a hot tub that are not leaking, how many of the joints have chemicals compromising the glue in a water tight bond? You are suggesting that all bonded connections are both exposed to, and compromised by chemicals in the water.
If a glued fitting IS leaking, then you have water with chemical content leaking. Now you have chemical contact with the glue "after the fact", but not before this occurrence. But, the chemicals in the water did not cause the leak to occur. You may want to change your focus from glue, and focus on thermal conditions that occur as water temperatures vary from 54 degrees to 104 degrees, in conjunction with the exterior thermal conditions of the daily weather.
Logic applies.
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You are entitled to your opinion--but the joints--and the glue are subject to water and everything that is in the water---go google leaky pipes --0co0pper galvanized etc---
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Clover
You seem to spend a lot of time getting upset--my Karma is in fine shape---when I was an active worker I managed 140 to 180 men and women --and we reached our goals---99% of the time. You cannot do that without knowing how to listen, how to be critical and how to resolve issues. On every project tho there was one person that gummed up the works and they either were motivated to see the light or were carnage.
When you say " the chemicals are in the water, the fittings are not subject to leaking, so there is no way for the chemicals to come in contact with the glued fittings "---that statement makes no sense! Every thought in that sentence is contradictory---
------We are talking here about leaking fittings--and you say they are not subject to leaking--amazing
------The water is laced with chemicals and you say there is no way for that chemically laced water to come in contact with glued fittings! Amazing
The quest here for most of us is knowledge in one form or another ---not one-upmanship.
For me on this subject the question is why do fittings leak, is it vibration, chemical interaction, faulty glue, ---there is a reason but that reason has not been defined yet.
One post said that the "glue"---melted the pvc and that the process was actually a melting and fusing of the pvc---a welding if you will---I am not so sure of that yet--I think some glues do that to some materials but not all---so that is worth looking in to --don'
t you think?
Why do you care about this stuff anyway? You are getting a new spa and a good one at that. Chances are you won't see a leak for say 20 years unless a fitting breaks or Jaun didn't show up at the factory that day and Miguel had to take his place, and even Miguel is really good.. Quit trying to become a rocket scientist over this chit. Get the spa and enjoy it! Curious if you play golf? I would hate to be in the 4 some behind you while you analyze which club to hit off the tee on a straight away par 5. ;D
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This is a joke right? I love running across people like you that give up and call me out....my labor rate goes way up! Blind leading the blind in here. I was at the car wash the other day and laughed my *** off when I saw a guy who had his rims sprayed with flex seal watch it fall off.
I was on a job not long ago where the guy used a full can of the magical spray silicone....you think cleaning old foam off the pipes is a pain,try that.
No, it's not a joke and I don't need you to come and do anything for me.
Using just flex spray by itself would indeed be a joke. Using flex spray and backing it up after letting it cure with 100% silicone, it's SILICONE just like in the tube. The spray simply fills in all the cracks and the 100% silicone from the tube backs that up and forms a water seal.
So being it's silicone / silicone are you saying the other people here saying try silicone are all idiots or are you just making fun of spray silicone used in the correct manner?
HEY I bet if you put a tube of silicone on car rims it would fall off too!
Hey I've read lots of stories of people using spray silicone and expecting miracle results and NOT GETTING ANY. Because they didn't understand how it works.
When you apply silicone from a caulk tube you get air pockets and your seal stands a good chance of a leak. If you spray it with silicone, allow it to cure, spray again, allow it to cure then spray and apply silicone from a tube your surface area just increased dramatically and you have a better chance of success. This is simply better than just applying from a tube. The best way would be to take it apart and apply a bead, as was suggested, then apply pressure. But you probably don't understand WHY that is better you just know it's the right way.
It's because it offers more surface area for the seal.