Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: gmdodt on May 16, 2018, 08:41:21 am
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I think I narrowed down my GFCI tripping problem with my 2016 caldera vanto. The tub was tripping the breaker randomly every week or two, but worked perfectly fine. I unplugged pump 2 (the one speed pump) and have let it sit a number of weeks and it hasn't tripped (the other pump was already replaced under warranty for a leak).
So - seeing as pumps are $350-450, is there anything I can do to fix it? It doesn't appear to be leaking anywhere. Why would it randomly trip the GFCI when the tub is not in use, but I can use both pumps as much as I wanted when I'm actually using the tub without it tripping. Seems odd.... All the wiring looks fine..nothing loose or corroded that I can see
I guess I could plug it back in and run some electrical tests on it, yea? making sure amps/volts, etc are correct. It doesn't make any funny sounds or anything. Fires right up when started.
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About the only thing you could really change is the capacitor. Did you plug the pump back in and run for a week to see if it trips again?
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Sadly, and as always, I may have spoke to soon. After about 2.5 weeks of it being unplugged I came home today and it had tripped. Now it did storm and lose power today so maybe that caused it? Hoping that's the case but I can't see the parallel. Power has flickered in storms before and it hasn't tripped...
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Honestly I would say it could very well have been the storm. Considering it hadn't tripped for 2 plus weeks, didn't it usually trip before that time frame when the pump was hooked up?
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Hard to say..sometimes it would only take a week, sometime two. Guess I'll just restart the testing phase and hope the power doesn't go out again. Breaker went to the tripped position, not completely off...if that matters. I always thought middle meant it had a ground fault and completely off meant it was overloaded
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If it's a 2016 spa isn't still under warranty?
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No, its not. about 2 or 3 months out of it. Had the primary pump replaced under warranty while it was happening in hopes that it would fix it as it was visibly leaking. It lasted for a few weeks then tripped, so he came back and actually that visit itself was not under warranty (but they didn't charge) and he tried to do more troubleshooting but everything was working perfectly. It's impossible to replicate, so its damn near impossible to troubleshoot.
Like I said, I guess I just wait a few more weeks and see if it trips again on a day where there is no power outages/bad storms
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It certainly sounds like pump 2. I bet if you ask nicely they will hook you up. I know that if I have a customer who's a month or 2 out of warranty we can get authorization from the factory to cover things. Caldera is a good company and I bet they'd do it. If the dealer won't, call the factory direct. Maybe you can just get them to send you a pump and you swap it yourself.
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its been well over a month since they've been here. I am just thankful they didnt bill me for the last trip that was unknowingly out of warranty. I think there still needs to be some time before proving its pump 2 since I cant tell if the last trip was due to power outage or not..at that time itll be three + months out of warranty. At this point, i dont even care about the cost (i can install the pump myself), i just want to know what the problem is and fix it.
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No, its not. about 2 or 3 months out of it. Had the primary pump replaced under warranty while it was happening in hopes that it would fix it as it was visibly leaking. It lasted for a few weeks then tripped, so he came back and actually that visit itself was not under warranty (but they didn't charge) and he tried to do more troubleshooting but everything was working perfectly.
If he replaced the pump and that didn't fix it, then your problem that was reported while under warranty should still be under warranty. I'm sure they could talk to the manufacturer and explain the situation.
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Well I didn't call the spa store it was bought from, but I did send an inquiry/email to Caldera on Friday evening. Waiting to hear back now. I agree, if it started under warranty then it should be honored; however, I could also sense pushback since they can't replicate the issue/prove my troubleshooting since you have to leave it disconnected for weeks...
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What timing. I'll tell ya. As soon as I posted the last comment, I got an email back from Caldera asking me to contact the dealer and put them in touch with Caldera...Maybe things are looking up - as long as the second pump truly is the culprit!
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As an update...the pump is still unplugged and the spa hasn't tripped since the storm. I contacted caldera and they talked to the dealer. They said they'd be willing to replace the pump, won't pay for the labor, and would only do so if the issue can be measured/replicated...which it can't since it's a nuisance trip. Kind of aggravating. Still not 100% it is pump 2 as my testing phase hasn't had enough time but so far so good. I don't understand what could be wrong as the pump works perfectly fine when being manually used and it isn't used to filter..(to my knowledge)..so I'm not sure why it would cause nuisance trip? Tech said on phone that it could just be coincidence and that unplugging stuff doesn't mean it's the actual component....could be that it's just drawing less etc..
I don't know anymore. Been trying to diagnose this for 4 months now. Very depressing. Certainly wish I never bought it
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The tech is partially right, but you have to start somewhere, and it's called "nuisance" tripping for a reason. So unless he has a better idea on how to solve the problem, and if he does I would love to hear it.
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so say after 2 more weeks it still hasnt tripped with the pump disconnected. What do i do at that point? Obviously plug back in to see if it happens with it plugged in again, but what other trouble shooting is there? Can i take any electrical readings at the pump terminal or anything?
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so say after 2 more weeks it still hasnt tripped with the pump disconnected. What do i do at that point? Obviously plug back in to see if it happens with it plugged in again, but what other trouble shooting is there? Can i take any electrical readings at the pump terminal or anything?
You can put a volt meter on it and confirm it is sending 220 to the lead when you press the pump btn. But if it was likely tripping during the purge cycle when the pump was hooked up it won't matter. I would say plug it in, how long has it been, 10 to 12 days? I might give it another week. Then run normally and see if it trips. After that hard to say if it trips again just short of replacing the board not much left to try. Spa is now heating and running normal? If so again my thoughts are still pump 2.
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Yea, ill report back after another week or two of leaving pump 2 disconnected. When i reconnect it ill take some readings. The service guy had a megger the lines into the break from the tub and there was no material leakage (many weeks ago)...just weird
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So it is now July 5, and I still only have the primary pump plugged in and it still hasn't tripped in over a month a half. I suppose I will plug the pump back in in a few days and see if it trips. What are peoples thoughts on whether it is the pump, board, or possibly something else?
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90% it's pump 2
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is a bad or failing capacitor the possible culprit? If so, thats replacable on these pumps, no?
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You can try it, but the hassle and time you have put into this alread just buy a new pump. With Murphy's law in affect, you will spend money on the capacitor and it won't matter. That said, you can spend money on a new pump and the same outcome might occur, but the odds would be worth it.
Personally, I would take the chance on a new pump.
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Your advice is well received and I understand - on most occasions I would agree and go out and just buy a new pump; however, these things are running $300-400 so its a painful pill to swallow if it turns out not to be the issue, or if its just a cheap capacitor. Undecided on what I will yet. still havent plugged it in. Do you have any idea how to figure out what capacity I would even need? Or places you would suggest to buy the pump from assuming I am going to do the labor myself.
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Update
Well yesterday I powered the tub down. It still hadn't tripped with pump 2 unplugged. I took the capacitor out and tried to find a new one online. Was hard to find an exact match. I ended up testing the capacitor and it read 220microfsrrad when the capacitor is rated for 189-228 so it seems fine. I put it back in and took the back cover off the pump. The shaft spins freely and I ensured all the connections we're on tight. Reassembled. Turn tub on and measured voltage to pump both pumps read the same..120 each leg. Measured amperage..all 4 were close..3 of the 4 legs were in the 7.3amp range but the fourth leg (on pump 2) read 6.8. I can't imagine that's a problem..but maybe? The tub, with both pumps on high and the heater going only measured 30-31amps on each leg of the wire connecting to the control board (clamp on multimeter). Also, pump 2 starts immediately and no humming noise
Nonetheless, put all back together and am going to see if the old problem persists..will report back either way. At this point, nothing seems to be wrong with the pump even tho the tub doesn't trip when it's disconnected.
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So as an update - Hot tub is still randomly tripping -
Today I replaced the capacitor (same ratings and everything) on Pump 2 (which is the pump i had disconnected for two months and it didnt trip).
Replaced it, powered up, worked fine. Went out tonight to check chemicals and I went to push JETS to turn it on and it instantly tripped. This has only happened one other time since having the tub (probably 6 months ago). Reset the breaker, then it worked perfectly fine...pushing JETS as fast as possible trying to get it to trip and it wouldnt. Weird.
Maybe this gives some insight into the potential problem. Still could be pump 2 since it didnt trip at all when it was disconnected...but maybe its a main board issue if the hot tub is tripping immediately when being powered up. Any other thoughts? It cant be gauranteed when the tub is tripping most of the time because its random and we arent in it/using it. Just thinking the two may be related..