Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: TEA POT on August 18, 2017, 01:36:28 pm
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I'm a NOOB that is trying to scratch one off the Bucket List. My eyes are about to pop out of my head with all the Forum/Internet research not to mention the Dry tests from visiting various dealers of everything under the sun. Now shopping Large/Party Tubs and has this ever been interesting so far???? At least this is a good filter to weed out the field. Looking at this as a 10-20 year purchase so not trying to cheap out but want to make a VERY, VERY Fair deal for myself on the right tub. The wild range of pricing for everything aside, everyone says WET TEST changes everything... Sooo, I'm a little Tea Pot... Short & Stout (forgive my sense of humor ;D) 5'7, 230lbs.. Really struggled to narrow down to Jacuzzi j-495, Sundance Aspen or Hotsprings Grandee/Gleam. I'm probably going to have to test all the smaller cousins (j-470, Optima) bc those Big Tubs are going to be near impossible to find on floors for WET TESTS with exception of Grandee.
What are the best tips for WET TESTING criteria?
So here is what I think I should be testing for:
SPACE - space between legs and feet of me and wife in next seat
JETS - feel and strength of seats, do they make me float away??
SEATING - comfort, fit, molded/designed to hold you from floating away
FEETWELL - size of wells, space, jets or not, strength of Foot jets
And finally price or structure of complete deal. I am more than happy to accept tips on pricing for the models listed too. I have scheduled 3 wet tests for tomorrow so I can kind of remember the feel of each as I move down the list.
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Also wanted to post some pricing start points that seem to be mysterious on here and in the world of Hot Tub shopping.
These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr for non radio editions on all, I believe :o
How and what final # you get to in the end of purchase will differ of course. :-\
Jacuzzi:
j-495 $19,900
j-480 $18,200
j-470 $17,000
j-385 $14,000
Sundance:
Aspen $19,300
Optima $15,900
Hotspring:
Grandee NXT $17,799
Grandee $16,699
Gleam $18,099
Caldera:
Cantabria $21,899
Really hope this helps someone save a few hours/WEEKS doing research.. Sorry if I pushed the lines by posting this but I think this information should be fair game if you can just call the manufacturer and request them. Why all the smoke and mirrors? :-X ::)
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Welcome and good luck in your search.
Add overall layout and seat height vs jet type to your list. Took us awhile to find a spa that had the right combination of jets, seat height and overall layout we wanted. Some had seats that were to deep (we floated out of them) or had perfect seats but the wrong jet types etc. We also did not want to enter/exit the tub by stepping on/over a seat.
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Also wanted to post some pricing start points that seem to be mysterious on here and in the world of Hot Tub shopping.
These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr for non radio editions on all, I believe :o
How and what final # you get to in the end of purchase will differ of course. :-\
Jacuzzi:
j-495 $19,900
j-480 $18,200
j-470 $17,000
j-385 $14,000
Sundance:
Aspen $19,300
Optima $15,900
Hotspring:
Grandee NXT $17,799
Grandee $16,699
Gleam $18,099
Caldera:
Cantabria $21,899
Really hope this helps someone save a few hours/WEEKS doing research.. Sorry if I pushed the lines by posting this but I think this information should be fair game if you can just call the manufacturer and request them. Why all the smoke and mirrors? :-X ::)
Where did you get that MSRP for a Cantabria from? That is incorrect
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Also wanted to post some pricing start points that seem to be mysterious on here and in the world of Hot Tub shopping.
These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr for non radio editions on all, I believe :o
How and what final # you get to in the end of purchase will differ of course. :-\
Jacuzzi:
j-495 $19,900
j-480 $18,200
j-470 $17,000
j-385 $14,000
Sundance:
Aspen $19,300
Optima $15,900
Hotspring:
Grandee NXT $17,799
Grandee $16,699
Gleam $18,099
Caldera:
Cantabria $21,899
Really hope this helps someone save a few hours/WEEKS doing research.. Sorry if I pushed the lines by posting this but I think this information should be fair game if you can just call the manufacturer and request them. Why all the smoke and mirrors? :-X ::)
These are MSRP's but most dealers don't even start negotiating that high. you can usually get ~30% off.
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Also wanted to post some pricing start points that seem to be mysterious on here and in the world of Hot Tub shopping.
These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr for non radio editions on all, I believe :o
How and what final # you get to in the end of purchase will differ of course. :-\
Jacuzzi:
j-495 $19,900
j-480 $18,200
j-470 $17,000
j-385 $14,000
Sundance:
Aspen $19,300
Optima $15,900
Hotspring:
Grandee NXT $17,799
Grandee $16,699
Gleam $18,099
Caldera:
Cantabria $21,899
Really hope this helps someone save a few hours/WEEKS doing research.. Sorry if I pushed the lines by posting this but I think this information should be fair game if you can just call the manufacturer and request them. Why all the smoke and mirrors? :-X ::)
These are MSRP's but most dealers don't even start negotiating that high. you can usually get ~30% off.
MSRPs are like pictures on a dating site. You need to meet in person to see the reality of the situation.
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no such thing as an MSRP in the hot tub world, those are numbers he randomly came up with
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Unfortunately, "NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED" >:(
I was hoping that the members of this forum may help point me in the right direction during my search as they are more versed than me on everything Hot Tubs. I shared information I had gathered in all my research and as I stated in my initial post "These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr". The idea that there is no such thing as MSRP or that I made them up are bordering on ignorant. There are MSRP prices for everything retail even if they never sell for them. I am a consumer and have no cause to misdirect anyone and make up false #'s out of the air either - feel free to call Jacuzzi/Sundance or Hot Spring/Caldera to verifiy my post if you feel fit. :o
If "Senior members" of the forum feel the need to discredit my information then please, by all means enlighten me and anyone else who reads these posts. Poking holes in what you feel is inaccurate information does no good unless you show us what the correct information is.
I did not join nor post to have EGO contests with anyone but please don't troll posts just for the sake of trolling. These forums can be a great tool if used correctly and I mean no harm by my posts; really hoping this was a misunderstanding and everyone else feels the same about aiding the Hot Tub community and sharing information. ???
Thanks to those who welcomed me or shared helpful info. ;)
I will share what I have found from my WET TESTS after seeing how this response is received. :-\
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The only real manufacturer that doesn't truly set MSRPs is Bullfrog, but I am under the understanding that, that will change soon. Even Bullfrogs marketing during national campaigns say get XXX amount off of MSRP, but that number somehow doesn't exist, so dealers have assume what it is based on comparing the prices to comparable models of other manufacturers.
You are right though John_Q. Most manufacturers do set MSRPs, and I think they do that and they are all just waiting to see who is going to be brave enough to start posting them online first.
Unfortunately, this industry is lagging behind many other industries for a variety of reasons. For one, a bunch of old people. Old dealers stuck in their ways with poor or extremely slow service. Then you have a bunch of old executives in the manufacturing world... too scared to put pricing online for fear of customers running/ dealers crying/ who knows what...
My personal preference would be to post MSRPs online, that way we disqualify the customers immediately who cannot or would not purchase a spa in a certain price category. That's why manufacturers need spas at all price points in the first place!
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No real knowledge here but some 1st hand experience while shopping.
I've been told the MSRP for a Cantabria is 15k, 18k and now you've been told almost 22k.
So while manufacturers may set MSRP for their tubs I think tldealers simply make up numbers to make you think you are getting a deal. My out the door quote on a Cantabria was 14k including tax from a dealer that said 18k MSRP plus tax and extras.
My bullfrog quote seems like a steal on the other hand from what others are being quoted here. But no MSRP was give ...only a bottom line price
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No real knowledge here but some 1st hand experience while shopping.
I've been told the MSRP for a Cantabria is 15k, 18k and now you've been told almost 22k.
So while manufacturers may set MSRP for their tubs I think tldealers simply make up numbers to make you think you are getting a deal. My out the door quote on a Cantabria was 14k including tax from a dealer that said 18k MSRP plus tax and extras.
My bullfrog quote seems like a steal on the other hand from what others are being quoted here. But no MSRP was give ...only a bottom line price
I just looked it up. MSRP on the Cantabria is $19,899 with no Bluetooth stereo, and $21,899 with. This MSRP is for the spa, cover, subpanel, and lifter mechanism since the Cantabria comes with it.
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Thanks for that D00nut, i was finding issue with that number after I looked at the others again, was gonna call Monday to confirm but you saved me the effort. :)
Guess they didn't hear me say without radio.
OK, now that this thread has life again…. 8)
Here are the results of my WET TESTS this weekend with the wife and our youngest:
We sat in the Grandee, Cantabria, j-470, Aspen and Bullfrog A8.
Space:
Only found 2 of the actual Big Tubs; Aspen was great for size. Cantabria was roomyish. Unfortunately, I have to travel some more this week to WET TEST for j-495 and hopefully the Gleam. The j-470 felt small to me and the wife and are shorties, LOL. Didn’t like the Grandee :( , A8 corner seats were nice but side seats are cramped :( (Why don’t they make an XL?)
Jets:
Bullfrog packs felt great, Aspen too.. :) Jacuzzi was a little softer so I’m hoping the extra pump on the 495 will be stronger (more like the Aspen). Jacuzzi has one seat where you can literally direct 3 jets to hit exactly where you want and that was amazing ;D ;Motomassage seat was pretty nice in the Grandee as well. Cantabria was middle of the road, strong with no gimmicks…
Seats/Floating:
A8 was surprisingly good for a seat that looks the least molded, no floating at all. Aspen was very close 2nd, comfy and no float. Jacuzzi would be next, little float but nowhere near as bad as the Grandee. Cantabria was also better than the Grandee; hoping the Gleam’s extra space and supposedly more molded seats make a difference - if I can get a WET TEST. :-\
Foot well:
Grandee doesn’t really have a foot well so there is why I think we had float issues more than most >:( ; they have two large foot jets that felt good but were placed oddly though. Cantabria has more foot jets but they are more piercing in feeling. :P Made me jump from being tickled more than massaged but think the wife liked them??? Jacuzzi is hard to say bc it wasn’t the 495 so position and actual strength may differ. :-\ Aspen was perfect compromise in size of jets and feel ;) . BF A8 weren’t great and one seat's foot jets weren’t working which raises concern on build and long term quality - almost like they forgot about the jets other than the jetpacks. The speakers were also starting to have what looked like a little rust forming around the corners of 2 of the speakers. >:(
Pricing:
As of right now the Gleam will likely be the least expensive as I am eliminating the BF A8. The Aspen and j-495 are in line with each other as one would expect. Cantabria was only $500 less than Jacuzzi/Sundance.
More to come after I hopefully WET TEST the Gleam & 495.
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UPDATED:
Also wanted to post some pricing start points that seem to be mysterious on here and in the world of Hot Tub shopping.
These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr for non radio editions on all, I believe :o
How and what final # you get to in the end of purchase will differ of course. :-\
Jacuzzi:
j-495 $19,900
j-480 $18,200
j-470 $17,000
j-385 $14,000
Sundance:
Aspen $19,300
Optima $15,900
Hotspring:
Grandee NXT $17,799
Grandee $16,699
Gleam $18,099
Caldera:
Cantabria $19,899
Really hope this helps someone save a few hours/WEEKS doing research.. Sorry if I pushed the lines by posting this but I think this information should be fair game if you can just call the manufacturer and request them. Why all the smoke and mirrors? :-X ::)
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Have you got any real prices yet or just MSRP?
My lowest quote for Cantabria was 14k, Grandee was 12.2k and Bullfrog A8 is 10.2k
Both BF dealers told me don't want money on any audio...it's the only thing they ever have issues with in the tubs and you can get a heck of an outdoor audio setup for the 1k they charge.
For the A8 foot jets they spin to turn them on and off...you may have not had it open
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UPDATED:
Also wanted to post some pricing start points that seem to be mysterious on here and in the world of Hot Tub shopping.
These are MSRP prices directly from the Mfgr for non radio editions on all, I believe :o
How and what final # you get to in the end of purchase will differ of course. :-\
Jacuzzi:
j-495 $19,900
j-480 $18,200
j-470 $17,000
j-385 $14,000
Sundance:
Aspen $19,300
Optima $15,900
Hotspring:
Grandee NXT $17,799
Grandee $16,699
Gleam $18,099
Caldera:
Cantabria $19,899
Really hope this helps someone save a few hours/WEEKS doing research.. Sorry if I pushed the lines by posting this but I think this information should be fair game if you can just call the manufacturer and request them. Why all the smoke and mirrors? :-X ::)
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I am surprised the MSRP is higher on the gleam then the Grandee. What are you getting for real prices? Manufacturers are weird with MSRP. I sell Caldera and Marquis. Marquis MSRP are about what I sell the tubs for where Caldera I could only wish to get MSRP on their tubs
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Okay... Eliminating the Gleam ::) bc nobody has one to WET TEST :(
One HS dealer told me they can give me a great price but not WET TEST, the other HS dealer told me it will be 4-6 weeks till they have one available :o
So it comes down to Jacuzzi & Sundance...
Just to recap, we really liked the Aspen.
Here's how it scored on my WET TESTs:
Aspen -
Layout: 7, you loose 2 seats on the longer side bc of the filters and then another without any jet therapy bc of the Cool Off Seat
Seats: 9.5, almost no float at all
Jets: 9.5, nice and strong but can be toned down, good variation
Footwell: 9, didn't feel cramped
Footjets: 9, strong but not piercing
Unfortunately, when we WET TESTed the j-470 it felt cramped and the jets were not as strong. Now I really hope the j-495 is going to be a step up??? ???
It has 3 pumps instead of 2 (and a circ pump, it's not the same) It also has more space for legroom so it should be VERY similar to the Aspen if not identical.
Can someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this; The Aspen only lists 2 pumps and a circ pump? The j-495 lists 3 pumps and a circ pump? ??? Aren't they mechanically mirrors of each other more or less? :-\
Hoping to WET TEST the j-495 to tip the scales one way or the other by the weekend. Want to love the jacuzzi :-* but we will see.. Aspen is pretty damn sweet if that is the choice, just hate that the filters take a whole side away >:(
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We wet tested a J 470 today also and didn't really care for it. 1 seat was pretty good but the rest had little to no real feeling of power with the diverter and air on full.
The foot dome was decent on the 470 but overall the tub just isnt what we are going for.
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I know you originally considered the Cantabria and then moved away from that size...
My point, you should not discount a Big Tub until you try them out. This is going to be a long term purchase, you'll probably go thru 2 or 3 cars before you switch tubs. WET TEST will tell you everything the internet cannot.
I've only tried the Cantabria and the Aspen in that catagory so far but couldn't see going into a non XL tub anymore. If Bullfrog had one I'd probably be done shopping. In any case, whatever Big TUB it is, the higher cost will mean less in the end when I break it out over life of the tub... ;)
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We are limited by size now that we've changed the location of the tub. Before it was just out on a patio so size wasn't a factor...now we are under a deck built into the side of a hill so about 94" is our max
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We are limited by size now that we've changed the location of the tub. Before it was just out on a patio so size wasn't a factor...now we are under a deck built into the side of a hill so about 94" is our max
Sounds like you need to build a bigger deck overhead 8)
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Can someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this; The Aspen only lists 2 pumps and a circ pump? The j-495 lists 3 pumps and a circ pump? ??? Aren't they mechanically mirrors of each other more or less? :-\
Answering my own question from doing a little more research and talking to another dealer; just in case someone else has the same question in the future.... ???
ASPEN:
3 TheraMax high-flow pumps and Dynamic Flow Circulation System
Pump 1/ North America: 1-speed/2.5 hp continuous
Pump 2/ North America: 1-speed/2.5 hp continuous
Pump 3/ North America: 1-speed/2.5 hp continuous
j-495:
Pump 1: North America 1 speed, 2.5 continuous hp (5.1 brake hp)
Pump 2: North America 1 speed, 2.5 continuous hp (5.1 brake hp)
Pump 3: North America 1 speed, 2.5 continuous hp (5.1 brake hp)
Circulation Pump: Yes
Hoping to WET TEST the j-495 to tip the scales one way or the other by the weekend. Want to love the jacuzzi :-* but we will see; (IT HAS THE BETTER SEATING LAYOUT).. Aspen is pretty damn sweet if that is the choice, just hate that the filters take a whole side away >:(
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HaHaaHHH, guess who's Doing their FINAL WET TEST tomorrow???? ;D
Some water, BIG tub and some great jets = decision between ASPEN or j-495??? ???
I'l post results and final quote once I sign and leave deposit to order; didn't want to speculate rather than provide valid info on my experience. ::)
Current Score:
ASPEN: j-495:
Layout - 7 Layout - 9
Floating - 9.5 Floating - ?
Jets - 9.5 Jets - ?
Footwell - 9 Footwell - ?
Footjets - 8.5 Footjets - ?
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Apples to apples, both nice spas.
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Last installment of "Life of a Hot Tub Shopper" ;)
Going to try to tie this whole thread up with a nice bow.
Was intitially looking for advice on WET TESTing hot tubs and got a few helpful hints and a little bit of freshmen hazing to boot. Here's what I think my answer would be to me:
SPACE - space between legs and feet of at least 3 or 4 persons in the tub, even if your single or a only a couple; you may want to have guests eventually. Also how well thought out placement of filters & hotseats take away overall space
JETS - different massage styles, strength of jets, are they placed well for what you want to hit?? Don't get overly concerned on the number of jets but moreso on how they feel and how much power the pumps supply the given number. Make sure you open the jets all the way when WET TESTing or you may get a false impression of what they can really do; I think this happened to me when I first started.
SEATING - comfort, fit, molded/designed to hold you from floating away?
FEETWELL - size of wells, space to get around them, jetted or not, strength and comfort of Foot jets
I tested alot of different tubs, more than I do when I buy a car to be honest ::)
Looked at exclusively BIG TUBS at the end, felt they justified their premium prices in most cases and provided perks other tubs just can't.
For full sized tubs I really liked the Sundance Optima, Bulfrog A8 and the Jacuzzi 470 best of the bunch. Don't think I had all the jets all the way open on the j-470 to be honest, which very well would have placed it higher on the list but I corrected this potential error with my final tests of BIG TUBS.
For the XL/BIG TUBS the Jacuzzi was the winner 8) , then Sundance Aspen a close 2nd and lastly the Caldera Cantabria; never got to test the Hot Spring GLEAM. :'( but really wasn't set on getting a lounger bc you loose a seat and may have floating issues. I may still go test one out to just to satisfy my curiousity. :o
Pricing: Have heard some speak of rebates while other dealers say there is no rebate??? >:( Also had some try to push territorial rights, MSRPs they pull out of a hat and sell on reputation instead of discounting at all..
Final Scores of Top 2:
ASPEN: j-495:
Layout - 7 Layout - 9.5
Floating - 9.5 Floating - 9
Jets - 8.5 Jets - 9.5
Footwell - 9 Footwell - 9
Footjets - 9 Footjets - 9