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« Last post by Davekro on January 11, 2024, 02:09:16 pm »
Michael, Please report back with the results with pictures of what AHH!some purge releases from your spa, given the skin irritations you have been experiencing. I am a newbie awaiting my new Bullfrog spa delivery this week, but will be doing a purge with Ahh-Some - Hot Tub Cleaner Sachet | Clean Pipes & Jets Gunk Build Up | Clear & Soften Water for Hot Tub --Amazon-- $9.95 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0968HFW7B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1If I had your situation, I would DEFINITELY do two purge cycles with AHH!some for peace of mind and the best chance of curing the issue. My 2 cents. ;o) If you do two purge cycles, please post pics of what residue, if any, you get from the second. It would be excellent to see what a second purge does! Thanks, Newbie Dave
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Folliculitis... also known as hot tub rash? Purge spa plumbing with a line purge like Ahh-some to remove bio-film build up in the lines.
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There's no chemical that will effectively lower calcium, you'll need access to a soft water source via a home water softener or a portable water softener like this: https://hottubstore.com/product/caldera-on-the-go-portable-water-softener/
The water in my store is very hard so I use the portable softener when I fill my tubs and usually do a 50/50 hard/soft mix to get around a 125-150 ppm level.
Today I tested the TA and Ph of the water from my tap. TA was 370 and PH was 7.8. In my small town, most people use water softeners, mine died maybe ten years ago. ≈5 years ago, I bought a preowned, but never hooked up salt based soft water set up and about 4 bags of salt, but never got around to hooking it up. Being in the basement, it is out of sight out of mind. Back then I had even made plans to install whole house filters as too. I know those notes are buried somewhere. LOL So NOW I have a reason to put 'install water softener back on my to-do list.' It certainly won't happen for the first fill of the new tub! To bring down TA hopefully to 50-70 ppm, do you think the process of: 1) adding acid to decrease PH; 2) run aeration to increase PH; 3) retest TA... Repeat steps 1 thru 3 until I get TA to 50-70 ppm is doable within a reasonable amount of repeating this process?
I am in the office coffee business and have used 12" long Omnipure inline "softening" cartridges 1/4" in/out .5 GPM flow to reduce scale for coffee brewers. Do you think this dinky 12" 1/4" in/out filter which would theoretically add 200 gallons in ≈ 7 hours at it's spec'd 1/2 GPM from the tiny 1/4" in/out would be worth trying? I guess I could adapt it to my hose, start the .5 GPM flow into the tub, test the CH after about 30 minutes, then again 2 hours later to see if it is still delivering low CH water from the hose into the tub. Actually, it would be an interesting experiment to see its performance over 'X' gallons of water to know how well it is protecting my coffee equipment. Nothing to lose with the experiment, and maybe I'll get enough soft water to get a reasonable TA & PH, who knows.
You like to get 125 -150 ppm CH or TA?
TA: 50-80 ppm (your process for lowering TA is correct, you'll need to lower it in 'steps') pH: 7.2-7.8 CH: 125-150 Also make sure you address any Iron or Copper issues by using a pre-filter for the hose followed by 1 of a dozen or more products that are available to remove metal from the water, you're dealer will have something if needed, most include these products in a startup kit to the customer.
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Using softened water can create it's own set of issues. More research for you. Use a stain and scale remover to sequester metals in the water. If you use a water treatment like Spa Marvel or Spa Solution then you don't need a stain and scale remover.
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« Last post by Davekro on January 09, 2024, 01:02:54 am »
There's no chemical that will effectively lower calcium, you'll need access to a soft water source via a home water softener or a portable water softener like this: https://hottubstore.com/product/caldera-on-the-go-portable-water-softener/
The water in my store is very hard so I use the portable softener when I fill my tubs and usually do a 50/50 hard/soft mix to get around a 125-150 ppm level.
Today I tested the TA and Ph of the water from my tap. TA was 370 and PH was 7.8. In my small town, most people use water softeners, mine died maybe ten years ago. ≈5 years ago, I bought a preowned, but never hooked up salt based soft water set up and about 4 bags of salt, but never got around to hooking it up. Being in the basement, it is out of sight out of mind. Back then I had even made plans to install whole house filters as too. I know those notes are buried somewhere. LOL So NOW I have a reason to put 'install water softener back on my to-do list.' It certainly won't happen for the first fill of the new tub! To bring down TA hopefully to 50-70 ppm, do you think the process of: 1) adding acid to decrease PH; 2) run aeration to increase PH; 3) retest TA... Repeat steps 1 thru 3 until I get TA to 50-70 ppm is doable within a reasonable amount of repeating this process? I am in the office coffee business and have used 12" long Omnipure inline "softening" cartridges 1/4" in/out .5 GPM flow to reduce scale for coffee brewers. Do you think this dinky 12" 1/4" in/out filter which would theoretically add 200 gallons in ≈ 7 hours at it's spec'd 1/2 GPM from the tiny 1/4" in/out would be worth trying? I guess I could adapt it to my hose, start the .5 GPM flow into the tub, test the CH after about 30 minutes, then again 2 hours later to see if it is still delivering low CH water from the hose into the tub. Actually, it would be an interesting experiment to see its performance over 'X' gallons of water to know how well it is protecting my coffee equipment. Nothing to lose with the experiment, and maybe I'll get enough soft water to get a reasonable TA & PH, who knows. You like to get 125 -150 ppm CH or TA?
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I have been using frog ease system chlorine for 2 years but recently the chlorine has really been hard on my skin having bad itching and reactions. Tried emptying refilling and cleaning tub. Tried a conditioner to tone down chemicals That did not work. Any thoughts on using Bromine instead? Otherwise I just cant use it anymore. thanks
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https://www.troublefreepool.com/threads/installing-an-eos-ozone-generator-in-a-bullfrog-r7-hot-tub.267293/
Thank you @CanadianSpaTech ! Post #14 by JoyfulNoise (TFP Expert) on the thread you linked speaks very specifically to how ozone should and should not be used in a hot tub. Since I literally just put $17,000 cash down on the counter of my Bullfrog dealer to buy my A6L Select trim level with Bullfrog's EOS (Enhanced Ozone System). I have been asking on this forum and PSF forum for specifically how long one should run 'regular ozone generator vs. the EOS ozone which mixes ozone with the water in an enclosed chamber, at a MUCH higher concentration than the standard ozone generators that just blow the ozone bubbles into the spa and only react with the spa water for as long as it takes for the bubbles to rise from the bottom to the surface. Then that ozone bubble hits the surface and creates the 'ozone cloud' which is I assume what causes deterioration of the cover and headrests.
Part of JoyfulNoise's comments in that thread post #14:
"There are right ways to use ozone and very wrong ways to use it."
"Ozone should be applied as a supplemental oxidizer to chlorine or bromine. It should be applied for only a period of time that it has an actual effect (removal of CCs) and then it should be stopped. Ozone is a very powerful oxidizer that will quickly degrade plastics, cause corrosion of metal parts and is a powerful respiratory irritant that can trigger asthma attacks in vulnerable people. It’s something that should be used sparingly and with proper engineering controls to ensure that people aren’t breathing it in. "
"The EOS system mentioned above actually uses ozone the correct way - it utilizes a contact tank to treat water slowly and then any residual ozone is released through a blow off valve attached to an active charcoal filter that will neutralize the ozone and turn it back into harmless oxygen gas. In this case, only water in the contact tank gets treated and sent back into the spa. The unit generates 100 grams per hour of ozone which is actually quite high. It [EOS] only needs to be run for a few hours to destroy bather waste and then it can be shut off and a chlorine residual can be reestablished. This is the correct way to apply ozone to a hot tub. In the past, tub makers would simply put an ozone generator on one of the recirculation lines and then just power it up when the tub was in standby mode and presumably covered. That method over utilizes ozone which then will destroy chlorine as it builds up. It also causes rapid wear and tear on the CD ozone generator which will quickly fail within a year from constant use. "
That part in red answers the question that remained unanswered after days of asking in forums and Googling the question. THANK YOU CanadianSpaTech!!! Now I feel great that the default 2 hours, 2x/day will give the A6L's ≈ 400 gallons of water plenty of ozone treatment. It goes without saying that I will still be diligent about testing and balancing w/ my Taylor kit, but now feel great about not spending another $2k to order a New Bullfrog to get their programable Circ. pump. Woo Hoo! I need to figure this chemical and balancing stuff out soon. It is possible my tub might be able to be delivered in two days!!! 
Question: What chemical do I need to use to lower the hardness after I fill the tub (and before I turn the heat on)? I think that is lowering the calcium?? A recommeded brand and name of the chemical, or even a link would be most helpful.
Thanks in advance,
Dave
There's no chemical that will effectively lower calcium, you'll need access to a soft water source via a home water softener or a portable water softener like this: https://hottubstore.com/product/caldera-on-the-go-portable-water-softener/The water in my store is very hard so I use the portable softener when I fill my tubs and usually do a 50/50 hard/soft mix to get around a 125-150 ppm level.
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« Last post by Davekro on January 08, 2024, 02:43:35 am »
I appreciate your experience and perspective. I am a big believer in KISS. That being said, the tendency to be pulled towards the dark side (ADHD/ OCD ;o).. can be strong in this one! LOL So I am glad to get these words of experience and wisdom. I will aspire to heed them. And a huge thank you again. Your link to JoyfullNoise's description of How the EOS system functions was music to my indecisive mind after literally just committing to the B'frog spa w/ EOS ozone and no Circ pump. I read it outside the B'frog dealer after making my purchase. Quoting the most reverent Rickie Bobby from Talladega Nights https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0415306/... "Thank you baby Jesus!" 
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It goes without saying that I will still be diligent about testing and balancing w/ my Taylor kit, but now feel great about not spending another $2k to order a New Bullfrog to get their programable Circ. pump. Woo Hoo! I need to figure this chemical and balancing stuff out soon. It is possible my tub might be able to be delivered in two days!!! I have customers that test everyday and add this and that and this and that and spa in a chem bath. K.I.S.S. Keep it simple stupid... Test 1x per week unless you have a noticeable issue. Clean filters weekly... biweekly at most and soak in filter wash every 6 weeks. Use Spa Shock to control organics and use proper sanitization chlorine granule (not pucks) or Bromine. Lock in your alkalinity first and then adjust your PH next. If it looks clean and clear and smells clean your good. JMO
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