Hot Tub Forum
Brand Specific Forums => Bullfrog Spas => Topic started by: huskerdude on April 28, 2016, 12:31:30 pm
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Looking at buying a Bullfrog X8. Anyone have any experience with these ? It's about $3,000 less than the Hot Springs Envoy I was looking at. Any input would be appreciated, I can't find any reviews of them online.
Thanks
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New(ish) model, not a ton of them "out in the wild" quite yet...heck I don't even have pics of any in the wild yet, but we are delivering one tomorrow afternoon that I will get some pics of...nice big deep spa, utilizes Bullfrogs maintenance free construction, no diverter knobs, 20-30% less plumbing because they utilize a manifold plumbing system...overall a nice big tub with some nice features for the money. I will say though comparing it to an Envoy isn't really an apples to apples comparison but if you don't see "value" in the extras you are paying for on the Envoy than the X8 would be a great alternative...I've attached a picture of the X7 which is the "little brother" to the X8
(http://i64.tinypic.com/2yv6te8.jpg)
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Can you explain what extras on the Envoy make it worth $3,000 more than the X8 ? I might think it's worth $3,000 extra if I knew what I would be missing by going with the X8. The Envoy does look more visually appealing, but does the Envoy feel that much better when in it ? I have heard that I need to wet test, but the dealer does not have the X8 or the Envoy setup for wet testing. They only have the Hot Springs Grandee and a Bullfrog A8L setup for wet tests. Is the Envoy more reliable ?
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I recently tried an X8 because that was one of our soaking tubs before we sold it. It's a nice big tub for the $$. I will say I own an Envoy as my personal tub. It's not fair whatsoever to compare those two. Price aside, the Envoy is the superior unit.
For better comparisons, you'd look at the A7L or the A8L. Even the R versions would be more comparable.
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Besides just saying it is better can you give some specifics? Like the pumps are better or the materials its made with are better, or what? For those in the know im sure you see ABXY and go yeah but for us untrained we really a bone here.
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Besides just saying it is better can you give some specifics? Like the pumps are better or the materials its made with are better, or what? For those in the know im sure you see ABXY and go yeah but for us untrained we really a bone here.
Envoy is a great tub. A lot of things come standard on the envoy that are options on the x8. Circ pump, ozone, better lighting package. The x series is bullfrog making tubs like everybody else so there are no movable jet packs. The warranty on the tubs is different. It's 5 years parts on the envoy and 2 on the x8 I believe. The envoy has the moto massage in it which some people love. I think the more comparable comparison would be bullfrog a8 versus envoy or a hot spot versus the x8. The x8 looks nicer then the hot spot but they are both the bottom level of hot springs and bullfrog. Not that there is anything wrong with either. It's just you get more for your money each step you go up in the two brands. I'm a dealer of neither and a competitor of both. I think they both make good tubs. They both have features that the other one does. Have you wet tested both or either? I think if you text them both you will feel the difference
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Besides just saying it is better can you give some specifics? Like the pumps are better or the materials its made with are better, or what? For those in the know im sure you see ABXY and go yeah but for us untrained we really a bone here.
Envoy is a great tub. A lot of things come standard on the envoy that are options on the x8. Circ pump, ozone, better lighting package. The x series is bullfrog making tubs like everybody else so there are no movable jet packs. The warranty on the tubs is different. It's 5 years parts on the envoy and 2 on the x8 I believe. The envoy has the moto massage in it which some people love. I think the more comparable comparison would be bullfrog a8 versus envoy or a hot spot versus the x8. The x8 looks nicer then the hot spot but they are both the bottom level of hot springs and bullfrog. Not that there is anything wrong with either. It's just you get more for your money each step you go up in the two brands. I'm a dealer of neither and a competitor of both. I think they both make good tubs. They both have features that the other one does. Have you wet tested both or either? I think if you text them both you will feel the difference
3 year component warranty on the X-Collection + a higher level of finishing "under the hood" than a Hot Spot which is why they will run a little more $ than a Hot Spot typically
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+ a higher level of finishing "under the hood"
What does that mean and what does it do for the owner?
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+ a higher level of finishing "under the hood"
What does that mean and what does it do for the owner?
Here is how I would break both of them down: Nothing against Hot Spot, I've sold tons of them, good spa for the money but there are differences between the 2...some may see value in these differences, some may not
Hot Spot Base = very cheap wood + Plastic Bag, pumps are attached with screws driven into a piece of painted plywood
Bullfrog Base = 1 piece composite...much less prone to rodent intrusion and general "rotting" pumps are attached using stainless bolts & lock washers + rubber grommets to prevent vibration noise...the equipment compartment is also much "cleaner & organized" don't take my word for it, walk into both dealers and ask them to remove the door panel, you will see the difference
a 7' Hot Spot uses 1.5 HP Pumps (continuous duty)
a 7' X-Series uses 2.5 HP Pumps (continuous duty)
Hot Spot has a 2 yr component warranty
Bullfrog has a 3 yr component warranty
Hot Spot 2 year shell warranty
Bullfrog 3 year shell warranty
Hot Spot 2 year plumbing
Bullfrog 3 year plumbing
a 7' Hot Spot uses 65 sq ft of filtration
a 7' X-Series uses 100 sq ft of filtration
Hot Spot uses diverter system which is a common fail point
Bullfrog utilizes no divereters and allows the user to control every single jet independently
Hot Spot has 3 varieties of jets
Bullfrog has 5 varieties
Pricing for a 7' hot spot = $6,500 - $7,000 ish...obviously dealer chooses their own pricing and depends on options (stereo, ozone, etc)
Pricing for a 7' X-Series $7,500 ish...obviously dealer chooses their own pricing and depends on options (stereo, circ pump, ozone, etc.)
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+ a higher level of finishing "under the hood"
What does that mean and what does it do for the owner?
Here is how I would break both of them down: Nothing against Hot Spot, I've sold tons of them, good spa for the money but there are differences between the 2...some may see value in these differences, some may not
Hot Spot Base = very cheap wood + Plastic Bag, pumps are attached with screws driven into a piece of painted plywood
Bullfrog Base = 1 piece composite...much less prone to rodent intrusion and general "rotting" pumps are attached using stainless bolts & lock washers + rubber grommets to prevent vibration noise...the equipment compartment is also much "cleaner & organized" don't take my word for it, walk into both dealers and ask them to remove the door panel, you will see the difference
a 7' Hot Spot uses 1.5 HP Pumps (continuous duty)
a 7' X-Series uses 2.5 HP Pumps (continuous duty)
Hot Spot has a 2 yr component warranty
Bullfrog has a 3 yr component warranty
Hot Spot 2 year shell warranty
Bullfrog 3 year shell warranty
Hot Spot 2 year plumbing
Bullfrog 3 year plumbing
a 7' Hot Spot uses 65 sq ft of filtration
a 7' X-Series uses 100 sq ft of filtration
Hot Spot uses diverter system which is a common fail point
Bullfrog utilizes no divereters and allows the user to control every single jet independently
Hot Spot has 3 varieties of jets
Bullfrog has 5 varieties
Pricing for a 7' hot spot = $6,500 - $7,000 ish...obviously dealer chooses their own pricing and depends on options (stereo, ozone, etc)
Pricing for a 7' X-Series $7,500 ish...obviously dealer chooses their own pricing and depends on options (stereo, circ pump, ozone, etc.)
Good analysis. Both tubs have there place. It's up to the buyer to determine what's important to them
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Besides just saying it is better can you give some specifics? Like the pumps are better or the materials its made with are better, or what? For those in the know im sure you see ABXY and go yeah but for us untrained we really a bone here.
Envoy is a great tub. A lot of things come standard on the envoy that are options on the x8. Circ pump, ozone, better lighting package. The x series is bullfrog making tubs like everybody else so there are no movable jet packs. The warranty on the tubs is different. It's 5 years parts on the envoy and 2 on the x8 I believe. The envoy has the moto massage in it which some people love. I think the more comparable comparison would be bullfrog a8 versus envoy or a hot spot versus the x8. The x8 looks nicer then the hot spot but they are both the bottom level of hot springs and bullfrog. Not that there is anything wrong with either. It's just you get more for your money each step you go up in the two brands. I'm a dealer of neither and a competitor of both. I think they both make good tubs. They both have features that the other one does. Have you wet tested both or either? I think if you text them both you will feel the difference
3 year component warranty on the X-Collection + a higher level of finishing "under the hood" than a Hot Spot which is why they will run a little more $ than a Hot Spot typically
That's a good warranty for that tub. No diverted Valves in those either?
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Besides just saying it is better can you give some specifics? Like the pumps are better or the materials its made with are better, or what? For those in the know im sure you see ABXY and go yeah but for us untrained we really a bone here.
Envoy is a great tub. A lot of things come standard on the envoy that are options on the x8. Circ pump, ozone, better lighting package. The x series is bullfrog making tubs like everybody else so there are no movable jet packs. The warranty on the tubs is different. It's 5 years parts on the envoy and 2 on the x8 I believe. The envoy has the moto massage in it which some people love. I think the more comparable comparison would be bullfrog a8 versus envoy or a hot spot versus the x8. The x8 looks nicer then the hot spot but they are both the bottom level of hot springs and bullfrog. Not that there is anything wrong with either. It's just you get more for your money each step you go up in the two brands. I'm a dealer of neither and a competitor of both. I think they both make good tubs. They both have features that the other one does. Have you wet tested both or either? I think if you text them both you will feel the difference
3 year component warranty on the X-Collection + a higher level of finishing "under the hood" than a Hot Spot which is why they will run a little more $ than a Hot Spot typically
That's a good warranty for that tub. No diverted Valves in those either?
no diverters, they basically run 1 "main line" and then manifold the plumbing at each "seat" so you end up with a little less plumbing...every jet in the spa is individually controlled, even the little precision jets you can control from off to high...Good value driven collection just like the Rhythm/Relay/Tempo with a few more features imo but as noted above will typically come priced a little higher than a Hot Spot so it'll be up to a customer to decide
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IMO, the X Series really isn't a Hot Spot, Jacuzzi 200, Marquis Celebrity, etc competitor.
The way it is set up and looking at the pricing, it is somewhat inbetween most competitors value and premium lines.
So for Hot Spring and Bullfrog as an example, it would go:
Hot Spot ->Bullfrog X -> Limelight
Just based on pricepoint and feature count. My 2 cents
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+ a higher level of finishing "under the hood"
What does that mean and what does it do for the owner?
Here is how I would break both of them down: Nothing against Hot Spot, I've sold tons of them, good spa for the money but there are differences between the 2...some may see value in these differences, some may not
Hot Spot Base = very cheap wood + Plastic Bag, pumps are attached with screws driven into a piece of painted plywood
Bullfrog Base = 1 piece composite...much less prone to rodent intrusion and general "rotting" pumps are attached using stainless bolts & lock washers + rubber grommets to prevent vibration noise...the equipment compartment is also much "cleaner & organized" don't take my word for it, walk into both dealers and ask them to remove the door panel, you will see the difference
a 7' Hot Spot uses 1.5 HP Pumps (continuous duty)
a 7' X-Series uses 2.5 HP Pumps (continuous duty)
Hot Spot has a 2 yr component warranty
Bullfrog has a 3 yr component warranty
Hot Spot 2 year shell warranty
Bullfrog 3 year shell warranty
Hot Spot 2 year plumbing
Bullfrog 3 year plumbing
a 7' Hot Spot uses 65 sq ft of filtration
a 7' X-Series uses 100 sq ft of filtration
Hot Spot uses diverter system which is a common fail point
Bullfrog utilizes no divereters and allows the user to control every single jet independently
Hot Spot has 3 varieties of jets
Bullfrog has 5 varieties
Pricing for a 7' hot spot = $6,500 - $7,000 ish...obviously dealer chooses their own pricing and depends on options (stereo, ozone, etc)
Pricing for a 7' X-Series $7,500 ish...obviously dealer chooses their own pricing and depends on options (stereo, circ pump, ozone, etc.)
Really good analysis. Great post.
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So the x series and r series are priced similar? At least in my market the r series 7 footer is going for high 7's which I always thought was cheap
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So the x series and r series are priced similar? At least in my market the r series 7 footer is going for high 7's which I always thought was cheap
That is really low. We sell it for 9500.00 lift and ozone.
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Yeah, that is really cheap. 7' R series should be more like $9k, depending upon what is included.
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Yeah, that is really cheap. 7' R series should be more like $9k, depending upon what is included.
I thought so too. It's the type of company that's slogan is bring in your best quote on a new pool or hot tub and we will beat it by $500
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We have the x7 with the back-lit jets on our showroom and it is a sexy tub. Necessary no. :P
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Yeah, that is really cheap. 7' R series should be more like $9k, depending upon what is included.
I thought so too. It's the type of company that's slogan is bring in your best quote on a new pool or hot tub and we will beat it by $500
Hard to pay your team a good living and keep them around for awhile selling stuff at that price. Wonder how good their service is.
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Yeah, that is really cheap. 7' R series should be more like $9k, depending upon what is included.
I thought so too. It's the type of company that's slogan is bring in your best quote on a new pool or hot tub and we will beat it by $500
Hard to pay your team a good living and keep them around for awhile selling stuff at that price. Wonder how good their service is.
They don't have a very good reputation actually it's pretty bad. They prey on people by always being the low bid on everything. It ends up helping me because we end up doing a lot of there service on stuff out of warranty and sometimes in warranty