Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: irun5k on December 23, 2013, 04:59:18 pm
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Hi all,
Like many folks when they first join this forum, I am shopping for a hot tub and trying to figure out the "lay of the land" so to speak.
I've already read countless threads about local vs. Costco and that sort of thing. I figured we'd give a local business a visit... the one that popped up locally here with good online reviews was Spa Manufacturers, Inc. in the St. Pete/Clearwater area.
It almost seems to good to be true... under 4K for a 5-person acrylic tub with cedar surround. e.g. http://www.spamanufacturers.com/spa-650waterfall-sm.php
They build these, but I am guessing they either don't sell beyond their showroom or they sell them as some other brand name nationally. As a result I haven't found any actual reviews of their spas.
I am curious what you guys think. I have no idea how these units compare. Being acrylic and having a cedar surround certainly seems to be a cut above some the bargain models I've seen elsewhere, but I don't know enough yet to know whether they are cutting corners elsewhere.
Appreciate any thoughts you might have!
Happy Holidays!
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Mate , those are 1990 's design , I would look somewhere else or add 1 k to your budget for a better spa . how many adult and children will use it ? how tall are the adults ?
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Hello, thanks for the reply.
Primarily it will be 2 adults, 1 child, the tallest being 6'. Max capacity a couple times a year might be 4 adults, 1 child.
When you say "90's design", what things are you referencing, exactly? Technology, materials, aesthetics, etc? These are the things I'm trying to learn so it would help me to know. I really just want a durable, reliable and comfortable hot tub. Not interested in waterfalls, TVs, sound systems, LED lighting, etc.
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Do you have somethin against lounges if they are fitted to your size and confortable ?
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Hello, thanks for the reply.
Primarily it will be 2 adults, 1 child, the tallest being 6'. Max capacity a couple times a year might be 4 adults, 1 child.
When you say "90's design", what things are you referencing, exactly? Technology, materials, aesthetics, etc? These are the things I'm trying to learn so it would help me to know. I really just want a durable, reliable and comfortable hot tub. Not interested in waterfalls, TVs, sound systems, LED lighting, etc.
What other dealers are available in your area?
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There is another dealer that gets good reviews that sells Caldera and Premium Leisure.
Some assortment of seating (e.g. lounger + captains chairs) is ideal, sometimes my back gives me trouble and what feels good one day might not feel good the next.
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Ok , where are you located ?
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Welcome! Sorry I have never heard of Spa Manufacturers and can't really speak anything towards them (I'm not a dealer nor do I service spas just an owner). Sounds like you are doing your research by searching the internet and reading posts on this forum. I would recommend continue to research and check out all your local dealers and wet test those that you are interested in (that you can). That's what we did - lot of looking, listening to sales spiels, and a lot of wet testing! Almost like buying a car - LOL! For the record we own a Marquis Epic but have recently traded it in for a Bullfrog R6L. Not that Marquis was bad just that we liked the therapy and the features of the Bullfrog better so more of a personal preference.
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You are right, it *is* like buying a car. I like to operate on facts but I am having a hard time getting an objective comparison of quality. I know materials are a factor... e.g. roto-molded vs. acrylic, plastic/composite enclosures vs. hardwood, open enclosure vs. foam filled, etc. Beyond that I imagine pumps, filtration, ozone, and jets are factors as well. Does that about cover it or is there more?
I'm in the Tampa Bay area. Hopefully next Christmas Eve we'll be enjoying a hot tub like the rest of you all!
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Irun,
I took a few minutes to look over their website and didn't really find much information on how (or if) they build their spas. I clicked on what I thought was their warranty page, and didn't see the terms of their warranty. Now, mind you, I had a few eggnogs before I went to sleep last night, and I'm on my first cup of coffee, so it could just be user error on my part... At any rate, I personally would want more information before I had stepped forward with one of their tubs.
And, I agree that it is very difficult to find solid, unbiased information on spas. I just finished buying a new car and can honestly say that purchasing a spa is much more difficult. There are no Consumer's Reports or buying services to assist you in purchasing a spa. At any rate, keep on reading, asking questions and learning before you pull the trigger and you should be ok. It took me quite some time but I finally ordered my new spa a few days ago.
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You are right, it *is* like buying a car. I like to operate on facts but I am having a hard time getting an objective comparison of quality. I know materials are a factor... e.g. roto-molded vs. acrylic, plastic/composite enclosures vs. hardwood, open enclosure vs. foam filled, etc. Beyond that I imagine pumps, filtration, ozone, and jets are factors as well. Does that about cover it or is there more?
I'm in the Tampa Bay area. Hopefully next Christmas Eve we'll be enjoying a hot tub like the rest of you all!
Hi mate , the quality of material is what you need to look first , then something confortable .
Jets are very important because they cost alot to be replaced so you want to make sure you can find them locally or online otherwise you will have to replace the male and female part wich is expensive .( company that offer a 2 years or less on jets normally has problem with them after the warranty )
Pumps are very important because they cost alot to replace , you want to have a look at the mecanisim pump seal wich break often , I would suggest to use VIton Seal but it hard to get this info if you are a custumer ( yet again check for the warranty )
Whats also important is the accessibility of the equipment inside , this is something people should look also , if it has easy access it will cost you less in repair . In most spa if you know how to operate a drill you can basicly fix anything yourself by watching youtube tech videos.
Also something you want to look is the spa controller ... some manufacturer have balboa or gecko to custum build them their chipset so if it broke you have to buy it directly from the manufacturer and you can be sure they will charge you alot of money .
Insulation : some will say full foam is better and some will say that perimeter insulation is better .... personnally I tried both and i prefeer the perimeter insulation because it cut the pump noise and it provide an easy access to the equipements but again if the perimeter insulation is not done corectly you might ending up paying more for your bill than the full foam . For a manufactuer it does cost more to produce a perimeter insulation .
Filtration : well this is simple , cheaper model offer a 2 speed pump for filtration and high end spa offer a dedicated circulation pump . Amp usage of a 2 speed pump is around 4 amp and since you use that pump 12 hours a day normally you rather have a circ pump using 1.2 amps. Also if you have a small circulation pump you wont hear the noise from the pump compared to the 2 speed pump . Lastly , a 2 speed pump will cost between 350-500 $ to replace and a circ pump will cost around 140-190$
Ozone : Ozone is out of date , theres much better product around .
acrylic vs roto molded : Compared to other ''specialist '' in this forum , I dont speak of something I dont have knowledge of so I will simply say that acrylic has been there forever .
Enclosure : people tend to go for less maintenance , so I would suggest composite and mate please check the thickness of those cabinets , some cabinet are just garbage .
Cover : if you live in a cold area you should at least get a 5inches thick cover with a minimum of 1.5 lbs density foam .
I think that cover it all ...
We do provide nice spas whithin your budget , let me know if you need any additional info
Vortex Spas Team
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Oh good golly mate! ::)
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Anything helpfull to add friend ?
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Vortex,
Why do you consider ozonators out of date?
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You are right, it *is* like buying a car. I like to operate on facts but I am having a hard time getting an objective comparison of quality. I know materials are a factor... e.g. roto-molded vs. acrylic, plastic/composite enclosures vs. hardwood, open enclosure vs. foam filled, etc. Beyond that I imagine pumps, filtration, ozone, and jets are factors as well. Does that about cover it or is there more?
I'm in the Tampa Bay area. Hopefully next Christmas Eve we'll be enjoying a hot tub like the rest of you all!
Hi mate , the quality of material is what you need to look first , then something confortable .
Jets are very important because they cost alot to be replaced so you want to make sure you can find them locally or online otherwise you will have to replace the male and female part wich is expensive .( company that offer a 2 years or less on jets normally has problem with them after the warranty )
Pumps are very important because they cost alot to replace , you want to have a look at the mecanisim pump seal wich break often , I would suggest to use VIton Seal but it hard to get this info if you are a custumer ( yet again check for the warranty )
Whats also important is the accessibility of the equipment inside , this is something people should look also , if it has easy access it will cost you less in repair . In most spa if you know how to operate a drill you can basicly fix anything yourself by watching youtube tech videos.
Also something you want to look is the spa controller ... some manufacturer have balboa or gecko to custum build them their chipset so if it broke you have to buy it directly from the manufacturer and you can be sure they will charge you alot of money .
Insulation : some will say full foam is better and some will say that perimeter insulation is better .... personnally I tried both and i prefeer the perimeter insulation because it cut the pump noise and it provide an easy access to the equipements but again if the perimeter insulation is not done corectly you might ending up paying more for your bill than the full foam . For a manufactuer it does cost more to produce a perimeter insulation .
Filtration : well this is simple , cheaper model offer a 2 speed pump for filtration and high end spa offer a dedicated circulation pump . Amp usage of a 2 speed pump is around 4 amp and since you use that pump 12 hours a day normally you rather have a circ pump using 1.2 amps. Also if you have a small circulation pump you wont hear the noise from the pump compared to the 2 speed pump . Lastly , a 2 speed pump will cost between 350-500 $ to replace and a circ pump will cost around 140-190$
Ozone : Ozone is out of date , theres much better product around .
acrylic vs roto molded : Compared to other ''specialist '' in this forum , I dont speak of something I dont have knowledge of so I will simply say that acrylic has been there forever .
Enclosure : people tend to go for less maintenance , so I would suggest composite and mate please check the thickness of those cabinets , some cabinet are just garbage .
Cover : if you live in a cold area you should at least get a 5inches thick cover with a minimum of 1.5 lbs density foam .
I think that cover it all ...
We do provide nice spas whithin your budget , let me know if you need any additional info
Vortex Spas Team
Here's an inaccuracy, Most people require 4 hours of filtration a day not 12. There's plenty more from this guy but it gets exhausting to try and keep up with his company's sales tactics on this forum.
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I love you tman !
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I could kiss and makeup with you VSC but you will need to learn some respect. I mean shake hands and pat on the shoulder!!
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Another thing to look at is "where most or all of the spa is made". If made in China, well then you know what kind of quality or the lack of, you'll be dealing with from that point on. My advice is to buy local! I'm neither a dealer nor a service tech. I'm just a consumer, but it sure is nice being able to call or run by my local Hot Spring dealer where I bought my Envoy, get called by name, and get questions or concerns dealt with on a personal basis. That's worth the few extra dollars I may have paid to buy local. This is my opinion and your mileage may vary.
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I call that warm and fuzzys. Some people need more than others and are willing to pay for them. VSC is looking for those that don't need them. There out there.
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Stick to the "Major" manufactures... a good way to tell which ones they are is to ask if they are, "a consumers digest best buy?" This is a purchased award, but the big players that can afford to buy the award, can afford to service their product.
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Stick to the "Major" manufactures... a good way to tell which ones they are is to ask if they are, "a consumers digest best buy?" This is a purchased award, but the big players that can afford to buy the award, can afford to service their product.
This seems kind of silly.........Pick a manufacturer that purchases an award and advertises that they won that award? I am glad you posted though, "consumer's digest" is not "consumer reports". Consumer's digest is bought and paid for by manufacturers and they assume people will think that it is the same as consumer reports. Pretty shady.
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Here's a good article
The same can not be said for its doppelganger, Consumers Digest. Like CR, CD puts out a regular report with “best buy” recommendations of certain vehicles. Like CR, the CD publication runs no advertising, but instead of relying on consumer subscriptions, CD has a very different source of revenue: licensing its awards for advertising purposes. As an example, the WSJ points out that GM received no fewer than 15 CD “Best Buy” awards, and GM has paid the magazine to use those ads in its marketing and advertising efforts. Though GM refused to reveal how much it paid CD to license its 2010 awards, but CD says the traditional fee is $35k for the first award and $25k for each award thereafter.
Of course, CD swears that this troubling business model in no way affects the decision to award “Best Buy” kudos to a given manufacturer. Editor Rich Dzierwa tells the WSJ that there is
no pressure on the editorial staff to consider products, to consider vehicles because either they have been licensees or because there is a possibility that they will be. Licensing comes after our review process
Of course there’s evidence that this isn’t the whole story, namely that CD’s award page lists all winners of its “Best Buy” award but only offers links with further information for models that have paid CD licensing fees.
Not that GM is sweating the appearance of being the major benefactor of an award mill. GM executive director of marketing Paul Edwards tells the WSJ:
We had done some research in terms of what resonates [with consumers] and what doesn’t, and Consumers Digest scores near the top
Now, why would that be? Would it be because Consumers Digest is widely available and read by millions? Not likely, considering the WSJ’s revelation that CD
has no subscribers, runs no ads and is only available in certain bookstores and retail shops
Could this under-earned “resonance with consumers” have something to do with the fact that the name “Consumers Digest” sounds incredibly similar to the name “Consumer Reports,” possibly the best-known source of reliability and quality data in the country? There sure isn’t an overabundance of alternate explanations.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/05/the-truth-about-consumers-digest/
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I was extremely impressed with the Caldera Martinique only because of its Consumer Digest's "Best Buy" award. Hadn't heard of CD, so I googled and found the same info Sam posted. Poof went the bulk of my interest in that model (along w/the fact I couldn't wet test it). But, yes, I was impressed by the "award" - initially. I'm sure lots of buyers are taken in by these paid awards.
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First post and BUMPING an old thread:
Seems no one in this thread had any comment as of yet on Spa Manufacturers on Ulmerton Rd in Clearwater, FL. I just stopped in and spoke with a salesman. He talked a good game but I'm very early into my research, so I have much to learn. The spa I looked at (OctaRound?) was quoted at around $4700 with a 20 year warranty on the tub and 10 years on the pump. The enclosure is cedar. They are acrylic and manufactured right there at their sales facility.
Just wondering, as was the OP, if anyone has any personal experience with a tub from Spa Manufacturers in Clearwater, FL?
TIA.
FL Person
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Look for a spa that is pleasing to the eyes with smooth lines and tight fit and finish. A "lip over" design helps protect the cabinet and makes for a better sealing area under the lip of the spa. (the acrylic lip of the tub hides the top of the cabinet boards/panels) And it looks better. Have the sales team take off the equipment panel and look inside. Is it messy/cluttered/poorly insulated? Turn it on all speeds, all jets and any air. Listen to it, what does it sound like? Then if you can get in it and feel it. Does it make you itch or does it feel good and comfortable? You wouldn't buy a car and not drive it. Get a minimum of 5 years plumbing and lifetime (7years) shell/frame. And enjoy. 5-6 grand is tough, you have to look hard and you have to compromise on bling/longevity/insulation/size. 7-9 grand is more realistic for a 5-6 person tub.
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First post and BUMPING an old thread:
Seems no one in this thread had any comment as of yet on Spa Manufacturers on Ulmerton Rd in Clearwater, FL. I just stopped in and spoke with a salesman. He talked a good game but I'm very early into my research, so I have much to learn. The spa I looked at (OctoRound?) was quoted at around $4700 with a 20 year warranty on the tub and 10 years on the pump. The enclosure is cedar. They are acrylic and manufactured right there at their sales facility.
Just wondering, as was the OP, if anyone has any personal experience with a tub from Spa Manufacturers in Clearwater, FL?
TIA.
FL Person
I bet you that warranty is prorated.
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I bet you that warranty is prorated.
It might very well be. I'll ask to see the fine print.
No one reading this thread has owned a spa from Spa Manufactures, Inc. in Clearwater, FL?
FL Person
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Never owned one, saw/repaired hundreds like it.
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Never owned one, saw/repaired hundreds like it.
Are you implying that their spa's have reliability/quality issues? Just trying to get educated.
Thanks.
FL Person
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I live in the Tampa area and looked at their spa. The company has been in business a very long time and I suspect they build a quality product, the price seemed reasonable. Ultimately I chose to spend a little more money and selected the Bullfrog A7L. While the Spa Manufacturer spa was nice it appeared dated, kind of like older technology. There is a difference between good price and good value, for me the BF was an easy decision and I’m very happy with it.
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There are a lot of brands out there just like it from what I can see on their web site. The molds look very old and the cabinet design also looks behind the times. I'm sure they use generic off the shelf components available to hundreds of little known tub makers with shorter longevity and higher energy use than the manufacturers that spend more money on engineering and energy efficiency which drives their prices higher.
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There is a difference between good price and good value
This is a great piece of advice. Well said!
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I live in the Tampa area and looked at their spa. The company has been in business a very long time and I suspect they build a quality product, the price seemed reasonable. Ultimately I chose to spend a little more money and selected the Bullfrog A7L. While the Spa Manufacturer spa was nice it appeared dated, kind of like older technology. There is a difference between good price and good value, for me the BF was an easy decision and I’m very happy with it.
Thanks for the reply. I'm just starting my search and know very little about spas.
At this point, what's dated vs. what's up-to-date doesn't jump out at me. I'll have to get into some more showrooms to build a basis for comparison.
Thanks for the continued feedback.
FL Person