Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Bobman58 on January 09, 2017, 09:59:54 pm
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So when I manually turn the tub on it heats up and circulates the way you would expect. The issue is when the pump shuts off the heating element comes on and boils the water in the pipe( I can hear it and feel it seeping out of the jets even though the pump is not on) until it goes into overheat and shuts the heater down. Mine is not digital so it has no trouble codes but it does go into a stand-by mode and won't reset by itself. I've already replaced the pressure switch. Not it. Same as it was.
Anybody? Ideas?
Robert
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Brand, model and year?
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It's a Jacuzzi. Small, like a 4 seater. Pretty old, maybe 15 years. Bought from Costco. I can go out and get the model number if it's important.
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Flow sensor.
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That's normally where I go first too. Replaced it. No difference. Today I circulated till it was up to temp and the pump shut off, there's a few seconds and then I hear the heating element boiling the water in the pipe till it kicks out the overheat switch. I waited a few minutes and pushed the "on" button again. The stand-by blinking light went off and it didn't circulate because it was already up to temp but I heard the water in the pipe start to boil again so I unplugged the flow sensor wires and it continued to boil till it kick out again. The flow switch has no effect on the over heat
Robertissue.
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That's normally where I go first too. Replaced it. No difference. Today I circulated till it was up to temp and the pump shut off, there's a few seconds and then I hear the heating element boiling the water in the pipe till it kicks out the overheat switch. I waited a few minutes and pushed the "on" button again. The stand-by blinking light went off and it didn't circulate because it was already up to temp but I heard the water in the pipe start to boil again so I unplugged the flow sensor wires and it continued to boil till it kick out again. The flow switch has no effect on the over heat
Robertissue.
Rather than unplug it you would have to jump it. The contact is what controls it. The flow creates the contact.
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Stuck contactor. If you turn down the temp and the thermostat quits sending voltage its a stuck contactor.
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Where would I find the contactor? Is it something that can be tested and or replaced?
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One can search online for contractor.
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I don't think you need a contRactor to replace a contactor.
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They say contactors are noisy but mine makes no noise. Not sure mine even has one. It does have some sort of transformer in the corner of the box.
The real issue seems to be that the heating element is still powered up after the pump shuts down. Then the water boils in he pipe and the overheat sensor shuts very thing down.
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Yours has one...probably more than just one. But the one that controls power to the heater, there's a GOOD possibility it's stuck closed.
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You guys are freakishly smart! I did find the heater contact that was stuck closed. Popped it open and no more overheat BUT...now I have a different problem. The tub won't stop circulating( meaning the pump won't shut off) unless I turn off the power or unplug the thermo control knob. It seems to be holding the temp( although I haven't watched it long enough to make sure the heat indicator goes off) but it's only supposed to run for a certain time period after its up to temp and then the heater kicks off and shortly after the pump shuts down. Now I did find the solenoid that operates the pump and opened it manually and the pump shut off but when I release it it closes again and turns back on.
Ideas?
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Ok so it doesn't seem like it's heating up to operating temp like it should. I suspect this is why it won't shut off. The heat indicator light is lit but it doesn't seem to be getting any warmer. My volt meter says 18.90 volts on each leg going to the heater.
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Just checked with a different multimeter and I am getting 121 volts on both poles of the heating element but it doesn't seem to be warming the water. Seems weird but I think maybe the element has gone bad.
How would one test the element?
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I get 11 ohms across the two poles of the element.
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Un-hook the heater element leads from the circuit board and see if you have 220 there, or really just check it with the leads hooked up. If 220 at both or 110 @ each one, it's a bad heater.
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Watched a YouTube vid. The guy describe what I'm experiencing. Pump on, heat indicator lit but tub is not heating. He says likely the circuit board. Thing I don't get is how can I have 120 volts going to each pole on the element and it still isn't heating up unless the element is bad? I checked though, it's not grounded out, not tripping the breaker and I'm getting 11ohms across the contacts. Just what he said it should be. Thinking about buying the board but they are expensive. Still be in it for less than a service call.
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If the board is sending 220 to the heater, I don't think it's the board. @ 40 bucks for a heater I'd be trying the heater first.
Tman?
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Good point. Somebody's got a brand new board on eBay right now for $80. Tempting but if I don't need it... What are the chances that it might go out in the future? Meanwhile I'm thinking I may have to buy the element as well.
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Personally I would replace the heater first and see what's next. If you replace the board and it still doesn't heat then your doing the heater anyway, up to you at this point.. An 80 dollar circuit board from Ebay who knows where it came from. Sounds to good to be true.
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If the board is sending 220 to the heater, I don't think it's the board. @ 40 bucks for a heater I'd be trying the heater first.
Tman?
Sorry was fishing, yes I say do heater first also. If you have 220 across the heater inputs then you check ohms to get resistance which is measured through the heater. What does the tech manual say for ohms? Then you will know for sure but heater elements are cheaper than a board and depending on the heaters age? I'm sorry what was the brand and age again?
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It's an old Jacuzzi tub. It's dated 98 on the label inside( I know, surprising anything works after that long). Talked to my son( the elect engineer) this morning, he set me straight on my multimeter use. Says it's basically useless for measuring amps because it has a 10 amp limit but I can test for voltage or continuity. I'm going to focus on the element today and see if I can be fairly sure it went bad before I order one.
Is there a way to Hotwire the element to see if it heats?
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Ok so I have elect(120v) going in one side of the element and back out the other. The relay on the "out" leg closes but for some reason is not completing the circuit so the element will energize. Looks like something on the board to me. I pulled the board to get a look at the backside and nothing really jumps out at me.
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If you touch them both on each lead do you get 220? If so it's a 99.99% chance a bad heater, or replace the board then you can get and realize it's a bad heater element and replace it. Pretty much done with it at this point..
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Jim, I appreciate all the help. I really do. I don't have 120 on both contacts to the heater. After removing the nuts and separating the copper tabs from the heater I only have power to one side. I assumed power came in one side, through the element, out the other pole and completed the circuit somewhere else to energize the heating element. Is this not how it works? I'm not an electrician but I thought that's how all circuits worked?
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The only thing your "test" is showing is that heater has continuity. The PROPER and only way to test is to put the leads, one on each heater terminal and see if you're getting 240v. IF you're getting 240v and it's not heating, you have a bad element. If it's NOT getting 240v (typically it'll read 0), the problem is elsewhere. Could be a bad board, could be any number of other things. Bad pressure/flow switch, dirty filter, or.......................
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This tub can be wired to run either 110v or 220v. Can I run jumper leads from the power coming in straight to the heater to see if it warms?
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Is it wired for 110 or 220? Cause now we have a different scenerio than Doc just said. If it's wired for 110V then you have to check across the heater terminals for 110 volts. If it has 110v when it is calling for heat the element is bad. If it doesn't have it then the board is bad. 220 same except 220 across the heater terms. Resistance will verify it but no one ever does that cause it will only show the progression of failure in the element and those specs are hard to obtain for that particular heating element.
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Is it wired for 110 or 220? Cause now we have a different scenerio than Doc just said. If it's wired for 110V then you have to check across the heater terminals for 110 volts. If it has 110v when it is calling for heat the element is bad. If it doesn't have it then the board is bad. 220 same except 220 across the heater terms. Resistance will verify it but no one ever does that cause it will only show the progression of failure in the element and those specs are hard to obtain for that particular heating element.
Plus one. And he just threw a monkey in the wrench, good catch! Changing to 220 on a 110 conversion spa only changes the element, 2.5kw to a 5.5kw I believe and ups it to 220? It's been awhile..
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It is wired for 220v. For some reason I thought even if it was wired for 220 that it might have some sort of step down transformer so it would run only 110 to the heater either way.
Ok so I will check with my multimeter. One red probe on one of the copper tabs that come off the board and go to the heater and the black probe on the other tab. If I have 220 then it's the heater. If I have less than 220 then it's probably the board. Makes sense. Thanks for being patient and imparting your expertise. That goes for everyone.
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It is wired for 220v. For some reason I thought even if it was wired for 220 that it might have some sort of step down transformer so it would run only 110 to the heater either way.
Ok so I will check with my multimeter. One red probe on one of the copper tabs that come off the board and go to the heater and the black probe on the other tab. If I have 220 then it's the heater. If I have less than 220 then it's probably the board. Makes sense. Thanks for being patient and imparting your expertise. That goes for everyone.
Is it wired for 110 or 220? Cause now we have a different scenerio than Doc just said. If it's wired for 110V then you have to check across the heater terminals for 110 volts. If it has 110v when it is calling for heat the element is bad. If it doesn't have it then the board is bad. 220 same except 220 across the heater terms. Resistance will verify it but no one ever does that cause it will only show the progression of failure in the element and those specs are hard to obtain for that particular heating element.
Plus one. And he just threw a monkey in the wrench, good catch! Changing to 220 on a 110 conversion spa only changes the element, 2.5kw to a 5.5kw I believe and ups it to 220? It's been awhile..
From one end of the element right there to the other side of the same element, when it is calling for heat (be careful)!!
The board can feed 220v or 110v through via the same control board depending on how it's wired (110 or 220) The heater element will except either voltage in a convertible tub. And the only change is speed of temp and recovery of the same element. Hence the 2.5kw versus 5.5. Half the energy with 110v but maybe more than twice as slow so longer draw, it's about a wash. Speed of recovery trumps any cost difference.
Check that voltage first. While the heat light is on.
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Ok. I'll give it a shot. I have to reinstall the board. I'll report back.
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Ok, re-installed the board, tub fired up as before, heat indicator came on( as before), checked voltage across heater contacts from the board and no voltage. Tried it with them hooked to the heater element and without. Same result.
Seems to be a bad board. Agree?
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Ok, re-installed the board, tub fired up as before, heat indicator came on( as before), checked voltage across heater contacts from the board and no voltage. Tried it with them hooked to the heater element and without. Same result.
Seems to be a bad board. Agree?
Yes agreed. Now is where checking resistance through the heater would come into play to verify it's function. But like I said that's a tough thing. The way I do it is to measure resistance on a new good heater and compare. But not everyone can do that.
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Well I did check it before and got a resistance of 11 ohms across the element poles. The info I saw said it should be 9-10. So if that's true then it seems real close to me. And since it was not tripping the breaker I don't believe it was shorting out. As it is now I'm leaning toward buying a new board and seeing if that does it for me. I appreciate the help and I'll post back up with the results after.
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First off I want to say thank you to all that helped me with my diagnosis and repairs. I saved hundreds of dollars for sure and learned a few things in the meantime. All good.
I bought a replacement circuit board and installed it yesterday. The tub was warmed up by the time I went to bed and is operating like brand new. Life is good.
Robert