Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bosco0633 on August 13, 2008, 10:09:32 pm

Title: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 13, 2008, 10:09:32 pm
well the breaker tripped today and I could not figure it out.  So I opened the tub and boom, 6" of water sitting in the bottom cabinet.  $%&*    %*&#  @#$( #$%*.   Now that this is out of my system.

I am so upset as I called the arctic spa service department 2 weeks ago and told them about my tub shutting off.  The girl on the phone told me to try a couple of things and the tub turned on.  I was also told not a warranty issue with power!  did not know that one.

Anyways here we are a few weeks later with an aparent slow leak issue.  now the tub will not turn on, thank god so my house doesnt burn down.  But now I need to find the leak.  Should this not be a warranty issue??? Im lost here, as to what is actually covered under warranty.

And Tom I know that you will see this and I am glad.  I am very dissapointed in the service warranty of this product.  I have been burned before by Arctic and you were looking into it and then nothing happened.  I keep getting the same song and dance..... not a warranty issue.  

So do I drain the tub, or wait for the service guy to come and try and find the leak?  How do you all recommend me getting the water out of the bottom?  And finally, am I going to be getting covered under warranty?

Oh and hello to everyone, I havent been here in so long, good to be back but for all the wrong reasons.

If this is not covered by warranty so help me God, I will ensure that anyone every interested in this company heres about the service and the strength of the warranty.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 13, 2008, 11:14:08 pm
I found this in their warranty...hope it helps:

*Please note that union connection leaks are considered to be user serviceable and are expressly excluded from the Limited Warranty. Damage resulting from union
connection leaks are expressly excluded from the Limited Warranty. There will be no charge for on site labour to the customer for a period of five years from the date of original delivery- specifically equipment, plumbing, shell surfaces or shell structure against malfunctions due to any defect in the material and workmanship within the Limited Warranty.


Term
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 14, 2008, 07:56:55 am
tex whats up buddy long time no see.  Hope all is well with you and family.

I think that it is one of the jet housing that has the leak.  I am not 100% sure but thats what it looks like.  So I am calling today to see whats up.

Should I drain now or leave it for the tech to see to help find the leak
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 14, 2008, 08:16:27 am
Good News...............Bad News

So looks like I should be covered under warranty, yeah

but....................................................

wait for it, wait for it... Arctic spas has decided that due to rising fuel costs they have now implemented a 20.00 fuel charge for coming to your house.

How can they get away with that.  When I was buying the tub my warranty was explained differently to me and I was told that it was free service calls.  so the person on the phone said there is something in the small print that says that they can add fuel charges if required.  Guess what, I have read my manual and warrantly front to back back to front and it is not there.  It may be there now, which I understand but why did they just change it and not grandfather it in.  

Oh not to mention, I live around the corner from my arctic spa store.  20.00 seems a little much, considering I can see their sign from my front door.  Arctic spas im amazed yet again!!!!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 14, 2008, 10:07:13 am
Ok update

I took out the shopvac and sucked up the water inside the cabinet.  I reset the GFI and the tub started, I put down those oarnge clothes that suck up a billion gallons of water to dry it all up.  Arctic called back and said that if it was the clamp that connects to the pump then they charge me 100.00 to repair or tighten it.  If anything else, then they come and fix it for free.

Now two weeks ago, I got an error FLO then some error 354 or 360 cant remember.  My tub was shut down and wouldnt start then suddenly began.  The service department said that they never heard of that error code and I shouldnt worry about it if the tub was running again.

Now FLO means air in the lines I believe, but the number I dont know.

So I have now ensured that the clamps or whatever they are called that connect the hose to the pump are all tight.  I cant even turn them to make them tighter.  I have put a plastic container under the main clamp to see if it fills with water.


Now lately we have had a crazy amount of rain, Is it possible that rain could have flooded it somewhere?? Like if the rain was smashing against the tub, could it drip into the cabinet doors on the arctic?  Maybe this filled the bottom.  When I say rain, Im talking 5 days a week heavy rain?

I just dont want to spend the 100.00 for them to tell me that I could have tightened the clamps more or that nothing is wrong with the tub.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh so frustrating
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Gary on August 14, 2008, 10:14:42 am
Right from the Artic warranty:

"Your limited warranty does not include repair travel
mileage or for shipping cost assessed by your Factory Authorized Dealer or service agents."

This is written in their warranty you should have no problem with paying the $20 trip charge, you agreed to the terms of the warranty when you purchased the spa.



Gary
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 14, 2008, 11:08:21 am
Quote
Right from the Artic warranty:

"Your limited warranty does not include repair travel
mileage or for shipping cost assessed by your Factory Authorized Dealer or service agents."

This is written in their warranty you should have no problem with paying the $20 trip charge, you agreed to the terms of the warranty when you purchased the spa.



Gary

Gary,

I am sure you are quoting from current warranty.  Bosco says he cannot find it in his and is questioning them applying it retroactively.

If it is in his, to me, $20 is a nominal fee.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 14, 2008, 11:21:00 am
Bosco,

Sorry to hear that you are getting frustrated. I can assure you though that Arctic Spas does stand behind their warranty. Under Arctic’s warranty, they don’t pay dealers to go out and tighten a loose pump union(which doesn’t happen very often.) But, often times, dealers will fix that if that was the problem at no charge to the customer, but that is up to the dealer. I have driven two hours one way before to tighten a union for a customer at no cost to the customer, but that just depends on the dealer. It sounds like you double checked your union as you said it super tight, so you should be fine. If you notice any other water inside of your cabinet, I would call your dealer to get it looked at.

As far as the water goes, did you notice a large amount of water missing from inside the tub. That will tell you if it was a leak or not?

I know that you are frustrated too about the $20 gas surcharge. Again, that is not a Arctic Spas policy, but dealer discretion. We have never, and still don’t with todays fuel prices charge gas surcharges. But, with todays costs, many dealers, even dealers that sell other brands do charge fees to come out, even under warranty. Many dealers charge 40-50 dollars to come out.

For example, I just had a local heating and air company come out to look at how my vents were located throughout the house to see how hard it would to add a vent to a room. I was charged 125 dollars and they were only there fifteen minutes. On the bill, it said that $25 charge was for a gas surcharge. I think that it is just becoming common practice in todays times.

Hang in there. I assure you that if there is a problem, your dealer will get you fixed. Unfortunately, problems can arise from time to time on any spa of any brand, but that is why you are protected with a warranty. Let me know if you have any questions.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 14, 2008, 11:37:12 am
20.00 is nothing a drop in the bucket, it is principal to me my friend.  When you buy an arctic they promise nothing but the best.  When I purchased the tub they said that it was free, even if it is in the warranty, to me thats bull Shat, considering they are around the corner from my house.  I think it would cost at most .25 cents.  

Anyways, now that I have your attention Tom, this warranty sucks.  You know it and I know it.  I have contacted arctic several times

1 brand new tub delivered DAMAGED, i was told that the cedar was damaged due to a train derailment and that they would replace the cedar piece.    BULL SHAT no replacement, instead a guy came and sanded that piece and restained it.  Looks like crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2 a month old the pump went for a dive, service guy comes out, replaces the pump, not with the new pumps that you all went with but with the older one.  Great service....but leaves all the water under the compartment.

3 I ask a question about this forever floor that keeps rodents out.  Why did I have a bunch of mice in my shell living the warm winter, because the forever floor failed me.  Why you ask, because the guys that installed my tub drilled a hole to big for the wire, and left the bottom exposed, and the service department says, not a warranty issue.

4 Loud vibration coming from the pump area.  Not a warranty issue, must pay the 100.00 hourly fee to assess it.  So I get in there and find the ground wire poorly installed when the service department set up the wiring to the tub. they wrapped it and bent it into place rather than cutting it properly.  

5 30 of my 33 jets now replaced as they have all needed replacement.  Arctic says in the warranty that if we change anything on our own it will void warranty.  So if the jet housing goes for a dive now, does that mean I am not covered because I put new jets in???

6  Two weeks ago, I call with concerns about error messages.  I am told that they have no idea what it could mean but if the problem persists than call us back.  We could come and check it out, but it will cost you.

7 My tub is flooded in the cabinet.  Im told that if service comes, you pay gas fee for them to go around the corner to your house for 20.00.  Then im told to go out there and tighten all the clamps or else I pay 100.00 if that was the problem.  If it is anything else then they will pay for it.  So I might as well be a hotub repair man as they dont want to come out unless they have to.

Tom, arctic is slipping as far as I am concerned.  You were helping me out last year and then you send me a quick PM saying, cant help you deal with your local service department.  If these sound like things that I have caused then I take responsibility for my actions, but I didnt inflict any of these issues upon my hottub.

I should have backed out of the deal when they told me my tub was running late, because of a train derailment.  Honestly, why have a bloody warranty if it does nothing for you.  The arctic warranty that was explained to me is so much different than what I am now under the understanding of.

FOR THIS REASON, I WILL NOW DIRECT POTENTIAL ARCTIC SPA PURCHASERS TO RESEARCH HOW CRAPPY THE WARRANTY REALLY IS!

Nothing personal Tom I love my tub, I really do.  But a large part of my spa purchasing decision came down to warranty.  I was clearly mislead and misguided about the warranty.  Maybe I got to wrapped up with 5 sales guys standing on the lid, I dont know.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 14, 2008, 11:58:44 am
Tom's on YouTube!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PkacS7Wbt3Y

Term
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 14, 2008, 12:16:18 pm
Bosco,

This isn't Tom. I am a dealer for Arctic Spas. I am angered to hear the problems that you are having.  Again, I can say with confidence that Arctic Spas stands behind their warranty. It comes with a solid warranty. Unfortunately, it sounds like you have more off a dealer issue, and not a warranty or Arctic Spas issue. It was your dealer that drilled too big of a hole. It was your dealer that doesn’t know how to properly diagnosis your error codes. It is your dealer that is charging you to come look at your spa within the warranty when you live close by, not Arctic Spas. Now, this doesnt make any of your wrongs a right, but this is is a dealer issue, and not really with Arctic Spas warranty as a whole issue. I know some of the issues you listed were not caused by the dealer, but it sounds like they were fixed. I would encourage you to go see the store owner, and tell him all the issues you are currently having, and make sure that they get resolved ASAP. Let him know that you were told you wouldn’t be charged to look at the spa within the warranty.

I wish that I personally could help you out. But, please realize that most of the things you listed have to do with a bad dealer and not a bad warranty. Unfortunately somtimes no matter what the brand is, there are going to be a few bad dealers out there that can make things hard for the customer. You can reshearch this forum, and any other for that mattter and see horror stories from owners of just about any brand, and most of the time they all have one common theme, a bad dealer. That is why many people will say on this forum that the dealer is just as important as the quality of the spa.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Vinny on August 14, 2008, 12:16:35 pm
Wow Bosco, I didn't realize you had that many problems with the spa. I was under the impression that you were 100% satisfied except for this last post which I couldn't understand why you were so upset.

Since you were treated this way by the local dealer or Arctic itself - I agree with what you are saying 100%. I know I only come out to lend "support" when I hear bad news but I personally believe that customer support after the sale is more important than what was said before the sale.

It absolutely SUCKS when we are mislead into a decision. I can overcome a $50 item but when you spend 1,000's it's a different story.

I made my desion on tub selection partly on what my dealer said to me and I think a lot of people make decisions because of what was "sold" to them.

I would do the same thing you're doing - tell everyone to stay away form your brand and dealer. I know that you're one person that is getting a bad treatment from your local dealer/Arctic but it a true and real experience. MAybe send a letter to a local paper about how bad your experience has been ... if you do that maybe send a copy to the dealer and Arctic itself!

Hey, good luck! And remember - electricity and water doesn't mix - maybe tazer the owner when he's in a tub! Just kidding of course!  ;) ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 14, 2008, 12:29:07 pm
kimbo, i know that you are not tom.  never thought that, but i know he has or will read this.  Dealer issue sure, but the dealership and service my friend are the soldiers of the company.  So the way that I look at it, it is an arctic spa issue.

Friend, I have been a member for a very long time, and I know the other brands and problems.  But that doesnt matter much to me, as this is my personal expierence.  I appreciate you kindness and words but that doesnt make things better.

Years ago, this site had issues with the sales pitches that arctic had, and I was a defender saying that it is not that bad.  I am so discouraged, and I feel that everyone should no.

Vinny my main man, I missed you bro.  How have you been?  Life has been crazy on my neck of the woods.  My work has changed, still in the same line, different office now.  But love it.  Hope to stick around, just lost track of this forum.  Will come back as long as  I dont get banned for all my rant.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 14, 2008, 01:20:59 pm
Quote
And Tom I know that you will see this and I am glad.  I am very dissapointed in the service warranty of this product.  I have been burned before by Arctic and you were looking into it and then nothing happened.
Hi, Ryan.  Welcome back!  I am sorry to hear of your problems. Yes, I remember about a year ago you had some issues and I thought we had resolved them as best we could.  I reviewed your last 50 posts here, and they are universally upbeat and positive in regard to your spa (on 30 Oct 2007 for example you said, "with the new line of jets under warranty, I have had no issues.").    

A few quick points.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Steelerpete on August 14, 2008, 02:35:43 pm
Hi Bosco, I'm very disappointed with the way you are being treated and to think I just upgraded to a true Arctic spa, probably from the same dealer you are talking about. But that being said, just a thought, what about one of your o-rings, maybe they have broken down and are leaking??? I know when my tub arrived the installers handed me bag of new ones to change when needed. Just a thought!!! Keep us updated because I would like to know what happens if I need service down the road.

Pete
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 14, 2008, 03:23:57 pm
tom, yes that is great reading my last 50 posts.  Im not saying nor did I ever say that I hated my tub.  In fact I love my tub.  I am saying that I have been mislead about a couple of things.  That being said, I did find that one sentence in my warranty, however, when things were explained to me, they didnt read over the small print, and I guess for sake of a sale, they lied to me.  This is what is most disturbing.

I sent you a pm in February with a cover issue, and this is what your response was:

Subject: Re: cover problem
« Date: Feb 19th, 2008, 3:15pm » Quote from bosco0633 on Feb 11th, 2008, 6:42pm:
Hello Tom, Just wondering if you can tell me what I am covered for on my cover.  The leather is beginning to tare apart on the middle where the two cover pieces join.  It is not on a seem, however, it is the actual leather ripping.  Is this a warranty issue?

Sorry, not something I can handle from afar!  Please draw this to your dealer's attention and work through your local store.  
Take good quality high-res photos to have for backup.
 
Thanks
Tom

My store said, nothitng.  I left 2 messages with the service department and never got a call back.

If you are refferring to the rodent issue and cedar trim that was damaged, no it was never addressed.  You took care of it, and told me to call someone in Oakville.  I called them and they told me not a warranty issue and that I was misinformed.  Then i told you that and you said that you would look into it.  never happened.

So I stuffed the large hole with foam spray, and steel wool to correct the problem as best as I could.

Other than changing the jets Tom, arctic has done nothing for me.  New managers, new policies all this stuff, who cares.  I have been misinformed, and I feel that I have been left alone.  So for these reasons, I sit here very upset with pour quality service and lack of a solid warranty.

Again, I love my tub, I love owning an arctic tub, I have been a believer before the rest of the industry and members of this forum truely accepted Arctic Spa as a leading manufacturer.  I havent been on this board for sometime, and the only thing that I really see is more arctic dealers on this forum.  

There is nothing to help me out with.  You cant change a 20.00 gas fee that has been implemented which I totally disagree with, you cant help me with issues I have, as you said in the pm you send me, you sure cant make the service department better.  I mean honestly, if someone asks what an error code means and you can hear the call taker shop it around to other people around them, and they still dont know what the error is, then what kind of quality support is that?

I have sent my local store many people in to purchase an arctic spa, and will continue to recommend, but they will all know just how crappy the local service has been.  In my line of work Tom, one individual screws up, the hole department wears thier mistake, so I truely feel that your company should take a look at local service policies a little more than what is taking place.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 14, 2008, 05:48:36 pm
Bosco

Thank You for the heads up on my post Arctic or Clearwater. I've been on the fence between these two Spa manufacttures.

I've been in business for 34 years selling to the public high ticket items 10-100K, and if there is one thing, and one thing only that I have to offer that separates me from my competition is my service to the customer first and fore most.The second most important is the customer feeling comfortable in doing business with me, and third is my price, people are willing to pay a little more up front as long as the service and quality of that service is there. I have had to make some very important business decisions costing thousands out of my pocket to satisfy my customers. This has paid off 10 fold making that one customer happy because that one customer sent many new customers that purchased from my company and not the competition.

Here is my thought about your spa issues  

1. Arctic Spas should have taken all these Spas back to there factroy that were on the train that derailed.
This is the only way to do proper quality control before sending this units out to there valued customers.
I'd be willing too bet  Arctic received some kind of settlement from either the Railroad or there Insurance Co. for unforeseen damages to there New Spas.

2. Arctic choose too sell these Spas as New Spas to there valued customers knowing that they were damaged in shipment. Again I fell this was a poor business decision on ther part. These should not have been sold as New Spas, but as Referbs only and disclosing why they are Referbs allowing the customer to make there own decision.

3. Arctic Spas is looking at the their bottom line and nothing else. Too grow at the right pace you have to have full control of your company at all times making sure that the customers come first no matter what, or the company cannot growfor very long before it crashes and burns.

4.Arctic can no longer look the other way on any repair issues with these Spas that were on this Train Derailment. They short changed there customers by selling defective Spas as New with unforeseen  damages, and future unpredictable problems. This is now coming to the surface and my bite them hard in the@# for many years to come. A quick buck then maybe very expensive to the bottom line for many years to come.

All the issues that Bosco listed with his Spa can easily be contributed too lets say a sudden jolt, or stop. I don't know about you but Spas weren't made to take this kind of punishment.

Unless Arctic Spas had Bosco and all the other customers sign a disclaimer disclosing that there maybe unforeseen damages, Arctic needs too start kissing @#'s.

I was seriously considering buying a Summit Legend SE. Not anymore.I will buy a Spa made in the USA. It will be a Clearwater Orlando Sig.

Sorry for the long write up.

D.L.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 14, 2008, 06:18:34 pm
I am going to claim an armistice, here.  

For the past two years, I have done my best to help anyone who reports a problem on this forum, and I think with  good success.    

I only learned of this thread this morning.   Please give us a little time.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 14, 2008, 08:36:53 pm
Quote
Bosco

Thank You for the heads up on my post Arctic or Clearwater. I've been on the fence between these two Spa manufacttures.

I've been in business for 34 years selling to the public high ticket items 10-100K, and if there is one thing, and one thing only that I have to offer that separates me from my competition is my service to the customer first and fore most.The second most important is the customer feeling comfortable in doing business with me, and third is my price, people are willing to pay a little more up front as long as the service and quality of that service is there. I have had to make some very important business decisions costing thousands out of my pocket to satisfy my customers. This has paid off 10 fold making that one customer happy because that one customer sent many new customers that purchased from my company and not the competition.

Here is my thought about your spa issues  

1. Arctic Spas should have taken all these Spas back to there factroy that were on the train that derailed.
This is the only way to do proper quality control before sending this units out to there valued customers.
I'd be willing too bet  Arctic received some kind of settlement from either the Railroad or there Insurance Co. for unforeseen damages to there New Spas.

2. Arctic choose too sell these Spas as New Spas to there valued customers knowing that they were damaged in shipment. Again I fell this was a poor business decision on ther part. These should not have been sold as New Spas, but as Referbs only and disclosing why they are Referbs allowing the customer to make there own decision.

3. Arctic Spas is looking at the their bottom line and nothing else. Too grow at the right pace you have to have full control of your company at all times making sure that the customers come first no matter what, or the company cannot growfor very long before it crashes and burns.

4.Arctic can no longer look the other way on any repair issues with these Spas that were on this Train Derailment. They short changed there customers by selling defective Spas as New with unforeseen  damages, and future unpredictable problems. This is now coming to the surface and my bite them hard in the@# for many years to come. A quick buck then maybe very expensive to the bottom line for many years to come.

All the issues that Bosco listed with his Spa can easily be contributed too lets say a sudden jolt, or stop. I don't know about you but Spas weren't made to take this kind of punishment.

Unless Arctic Spas had Bosco and all the other customers sign a disclaimer disclosing that there maybe unforeseen damages, Arctic needs too start kissing @#'s.

I was seriously considering buying a Summit Legend SE. Not anymore.I will buy a Spa made in the USA. It will be a Clearwater Orlando Sig.

Sorry for the long write up.

D.L.

Being a Arctic Dealer Owner myself I know that we prepay for freight and spas before they leave the factory.  I also know that the Dealer is responsible for filing claims of damage on any spa or merchandise received.  This is between the Dealer and the transportation provider.  Arctic DOES NOT pay for the freight costs the dealer assumes all these costs and is therefore responsible for making sure all product is received in satisfactory condition.  Again, like all circumstances that Bosco has gone thru this is strictly dealer issues, and had the dealer taken care of like trained this would all be a nonissue.  Problems happen on any spa that is bought and delivered no matter what brand, its how well the dealer takes care of the problem that matters.  Obviously Bosco has had issues that could have been taken care of faster, but in Arctics case they have taken care of the situation as good as they can.  If I receive damaged product on a truck its my responsibility to check the product from shipping damage and report it to the shipper, not Arctic.  Once it leaves the factory its strictly between the dealer and the shipper.  They are strictly the buyer and provider.  

If one thinks that Arctic is the only manufacturer to have some headaches along the way they should check out the BBB records of ALL the major manufacturers, including the following Clearwater report.
http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=114&bbb=1296&firm=27028748

Its pretty easy to check them all out find the address of the manufacturers then check out the local BBB report of each manufacturer.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: starsky on August 14, 2008, 10:01:22 pm
It is frustrating no matter what the product when the manufacturer and the seller (Dealer) can each wash their hands of the problems by pointing at each other. It happens in many areas of the business world and the consumer is left holding the bag. It's MY opinion that a manufacturer of a product like this, be it a Hot tub, or a SUV, has a responsibility once a dealer is identified that is not representing their product, or supporting it in the field. They need to shut the dealer down. Nothing more frustrating for a consumer to be told by the dealer, its a manufacturing issue, and then by the Manufacturer, its a dealer issue..  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Wet in ChiTown on August 14, 2008, 10:58:59 pm
I meant to post this in this topic.

Please stop whining.  There are NO guarantees in life. Warranties are just a another tactic to help them make a sale....nothing more.
 
Sometimes you kick....sometimes you get kicked. Deal with it.
 
Stop blaming everyone, fix the problem and move on.  Poop happens and you just happened to be the one to step in it.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Smile...life is fun !!!!
 ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 15, 2008, 02:03:00 am
well, chi town,I agree poop happens.  I was never offered a new tub after a train derailment, even when I asked they said no.  I
 waited for my tub, it ran late on delivery and I took it.  I had a damaged cedar skirt and was told that they would replace it, instead they sanded it and restained it, doesnt look as nice.  But hey I took it.  
I replaced jets one at a time, and hey I took it.  I had a pump issue within the first month, they came took it apart and put the old one back in, but hey i took it.  T
They drilled a hole in the bottom of my forever floor, obviously to big which allowed mice inside the tub, no one ever came to fix it because it was not a warranty issue, so I fixed it myself and I took it.  
I had a vibration from crappy wire work when they connected the wires to the tub, and I fixed it because they wouldnt, I took it.  
I left messages about my cover tearing with no response but guess what, I took it.  I had 4 to 6 inches of water in the bottom of my tub today, and was told 100.00 an hour if not a warranty issue also 20.00 for gas, and guess what friend I did the work myself today because I am sick of taking it man.  Not worth it.  I paid 12,000.00 for my hot tub.  I love it, always have, always will, but honestly how much poo poo do you want me to take.

It is bull shat, I want others to no the troubles that I have had with my warranty.  To many small things making up to a big deal.  Now im frustrated and sick of the company that sold me my tub.  Maybe not arctic spas company directly but the sales and service department that I had dealt with.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 15, 2008, 07:44:16 am
GoArcitic

I disagree with you, the dealer is not the one that arranges there own shipping from the factory too them. That is all handled from the manufactures end to get the volume discounted prices for all their dealers. This is know different then Mercedes-Benz shipping vehicles to there independently owned dealerships. If a train derails carrying a load MB vehicles you can bet that not one of those vehicles will ever be sold no matter how minor the damage. This is called Quality Control!!!!

I will agree that it is up to the dealer to refuse damage goods. Bottom line is Who's Name that appears on the product needs too make sure that the valued customer is getting what they paid for a top quality spa.

If the dealer can't cut it it's time too find a new dealer that will. The manufacture is responsible from start to finish. Sure there will be some warranty claims, but it needs to be handle with the least amount  of  aggravation possible. When a spa manufacture wants to be known as a top quality line they have to surround them selfs with dealers of the same standards.

Your only as good as the support given to the customer. If there is a weak link it needs to be replace ASAP and that comes from the the comany who's name is on the product.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 15, 2008, 07:58:27 am
Quote
GoArcitic

I disagree with you, the dealer is not the one that arranges there own shipping from the factory too them. That is all handled from the manufactures end to get the volume discounted prices for all their dealers. This is know different then Mercedes-Benz shipping vehicles to there independently owned dealerships. If a train derails carrying a load MB vehicles you can bet that not one of those vehicles will ever be sold no matter how minor the damage. This is called Quality Control!!!!

I will agree that it is up to the dealer to refuse damage goods. Bottom line is Who's Name that appears on the product needs too make sure that the valued customer is getting what they paid for a top quality spa.

If the dealer can't cut it it's time too find a new dealer that will. The manufacture is responsible from start to finish. Sure there will be some warranty claims, but it needs to be handle with the least amount  of  aggravation possible. When a spa manufacture wants to be known as a top quality line they have to surround them selfs with dealers of the same standards.

Your only as good as the support given to the customer. If there is a weak link it needs to be replace ASAP and that comes from the the comany who's name is on the product.


We can agree to disagree then cause the dealer is the one that pays the freight costs and is responsible for getting damage taken care of.  Also have we ever heard a direct response from Arctic in regards to a train derailment?  It is possible that the damage came from something else and not a train derailment.  I have a hard time imagining a train derailment that doesnt damage the cedar cabinet to a unrepairable manner.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 15, 2008, 08:50:38 am
Do we really know a train derailed?

Perhaps this was a poor excuse for a delayed delivery and a damaged skirt.

A heads up that there is a travel fee and what the hourly rate is if not warranty is actually good business.  Bosco, would you not want it disclosed?

However, given the history you have had, I would be concerned also.  You have been taken advantage of.  You should still be insisting they take care of the cabinet as well as the cover and the current leak.  

good luck.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Cdn HockeyPuck on August 15, 2008, 09:20:45 am
I guess the lesson for everyone else is don't take delivery of a spa that has been damaged, no matter what the dealer says they can do to fix it. Insist on a new one. Unfortunately this is too late for Bosco.

What was said about insisting all your problems get fixed is probably a good course of action. If they don't get fixed then a claim into the BBB about the dealer (NOT the manufacturer) might be your next step.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 15, 2008, 09:22:06 am
Quote
Do we really know a train derailed?

Perhaps this was a poor excuse for a delayed delivery and a damaged skirt.

A heads up that there is a travel fee and what the hourly rate is if not warranty is actually good business.  Bosco, would you not want it disclosed?

However, given the history you have had, I would be concerned also.  You have been taken advantage of.  You should still be insisting they take care of the cabinet as well as the cover and the current leak.  

good luck.

I agree 100 percent, the cabinet, cover, and the leak all should be taken care of.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Wet in ChiTown on August 15, 2008, 09:28:53 am

I don't know any of the details of this train derailment, but it could just be one train car that jumped the track causing everything on that train to arrive late.  Just because they said it will be late because of a train derailment doesn't mean that it was a full blown, every car flipped over derailment.

I don't remember Harrison Ford dodging flying Artic Spas as he was running from the train derailment in The Fugitive.   ;D

But it does sound like they are working with you. I believe you have to work together.

Late delivery:  no big deal, you are ordering something that is being made for you. A lot of things have to happen before it gets to you. Ordering a floor model can fix this one. Ever try ordering a special order car.


Damaged cedar skirt: must not have been that bad if a sanding and staining fixed it. You are going to have to stain it anyway...its wood, if possible that is how you fix wood. If not possible, you replace. Must have been possible. And they did it for you.

Replaced jets one at a time: I assume you didn't pay for the new jets. You had to twist off a few jets and then twist some new ones back on.  Ouch  This would fall under the "working together" category.

Drilled hole and mice got in: Service people fix other peoples stuff, it is my opinion that it is the owners responsibility to watch them. They leave after they are done and really don't care. I would think that you would have noticed a hole in your flooring and asked him about it before he left or just fix it yourself. It doesn't take a spa service tech to foam a small hole.

Cover tearing: Not sure on this one, but it sounds like if it is tearing at the stitching it should be replace and covered by warranty. Or is some outside force that is scraping or tearing it and I would think that it would not be covered by warranty.

4 inches of water in bottom of tub: A lot of companies are charging this type of fee these days. They are trying to discourage everyone of wanting some to come out for every little thing, like "my spa is not working" and the spa tech comes out to find out that the breaker tripped. Silly stuff like that. You said "100.00 an hour if not a warranty issue". So if its a "spa leak" it is covered under your warranty and no $100 charge. If they find its not the spa and find its a "user error" or something else like that, well then its a $100 charge for their time. People don't work for free and people should be charged to unnecessary service visits. If its a real manufacturing issue I'm  sure you will not be changed this fee.

It sounds like you are just frustrated because of all this happened around the same time and it started to get to you. I can understand that. But what if you have your spa for another 6-7-8 year and don't have any other major problems. I'm sure you will say that you overreacted in the beginning.

I work in IT and I take a lot of customer service calls. And believe me, everyone thinks that their problem is the most important. And everyone also thinks that if they have a bad experience with their problem getting resolved they want to yell from the rooftops and tell everyone they will have the same results. And that is just not true.

Hand in there, take a deep breath, and its not as bad as it seems. :)

My spa is arriving to my dealers warehouse next week. They said they will inspect it and fill it with water at the warehouse to make sure everything works. I told them I want to be there to do my own inspecting at the warehouse before they deliver it to my house.  They said "sure, that's a good idea".

Nobody cares more about my stuff than me.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 15, 2008, 09:34:19 am
well i was told that it was a derailment and that is why the tub was late for one and two why the cedar was damaged.  

According to some new info that was brought to my attention, the service this way claimed that they filled the damage, however, they sanded the hell out of it and stained it where it never matched and has lost its smooth finish as they had to sand in.  The side cabinets were never fixed and I had to do it myself.  i sanded and stained the tub.  It is still noticeable but it looks better.  They were going to replace the piece but never did.

They also said that it was not possible to return the tub the day that they brought it here with the damage, and although there were some marks they never fixed it.  I accepted this because I figured they would correct it.

Then I had the waterfall fixed, the service department billed arctic for a replacement, but they never replaced it.  They warmed the plastic, jammed a knife in it and bent it open, causing to warp but stay open.  why did they bill arctic for a replacement when they never replaced it??

Then my pump was a mess they took the pump out, looked at it and told me that they would get me one of the new yellow ones, never got it, put my old one back in.  Guess what, they claimed a pump replacement on the warranty.  Hmmmmmmmmmmmm strange.

These repairs and replacements were being billed but I never recieved any of the things that they billed for.  

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Wet in ChiTown on August 15, 2008, 09:41:32 am
My three favorite saying are:

"Nobody loves you more that your parents."

"Nobody cares more about your stuff than you."

and

"Don't forget what Mick Jagger says, You can't always get what you want."

I have been saying these three things to my kids there entire lives. I think I have said these to them so much they might have lost there meaning. But I'm sure one day I will hear them saying them to there kids. Boy that will put a smile on my face. :)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 10:04:54 am
Bosco - I feel like the minority here but I agree with you 100%.  Seems like most people in this thread are either Arctic dealers or own stock in Arctic.  You're dealer is horrible and Arctic doesn't feel the need to stand behind their product or correct your dealers wrongdoings.
Wet in Chi Town must be smoking something good.  "Work together"????!!!!  Peace dude!     ::)
Bosco you have every right to expect top notch service from a supposed top notch company.
I think this post hits a nerve with me b/c my Artesian dealer is beyond HORRIBLE!!!  Artesian headquarters tells me that they can't make my dealer call me back or make them come out and fix my tub.  WHAT???!!!!  I was dumbfounded.  Anyway, my problem is fixed now but that type of customer service doesn't sit well with me......not after buying a 10K item.
Keep pressing on Bosco don't let these people make you out to be the crazy one to expect good service after spending so much money.
  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: drewstar on August 15, 2008, 10:39:33 am
Quote
I meant to post this in this topic.

Please stop whining.  There are NO guarantees in life. Warranties are just a another tactic to help them make a sale....nothing more.
 
Sometimes you kick....sometimes you get kicked. Deal with it.
 
Stop blaming everyone, fix the problem and move on.  Poop happens and you just happened to be the one to step in it.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Smile...life is fun !!!!
 ;D


 Wow. I have little  tolerance for whiners and folks who play the victim. The only folks worse are idoits.

You are an a$$.
 

Bosco isn't playing the victim or whining. he's trying to get his tub fixed by documenting Artic's failure here. He is dealign with it. and this forum is an appropriate place.

Stop blaming folks? like Artic who refuse to honer thier warranty? A dealer who charges top dollar and delivers a damaged product?  Yea, it's all cool.

What a donkey.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 15, 2008, 10:40:15 am
Bohms,

I am an Arctic Dealer but I do feel the same was as you and Bosco on some things. If you re-read my posts, I have said that it bothers me that he is getting service like that, and that he has a bad dealer. He should, and expect to get good service, but unfortunately that is not happening. But, imo, this isn’t a reflection on Arctic Spas, but the dealer that sold Bosco his Arctic Spa.

There are numerous people that have ventured to this forum to tell their bad experience with their spa, and it isn’t just Arctic Spas. And most of the time, it isn’t the spa, but the dealer that is servicing the spa. As Chrisy said, Saved by Grace has had a bad experience with his Jacuzzi, and JJ was quick to say he has a pos dealer. Few weeks ago, there was a guy that has a Hot Spring, and the ozone check valve had to be replaced in year two, and it was a two minute job and the customer was charged $100. The customer was mad because he wasn’t told the ozone has a one year warranty, even though it states that in the owners manual. That doesn’t mean that HS is bad, but the dealer should have told the customer this. Merlin came on here and talked about that dealer being a pos. To that dealers credit though, he did credit the customer back the money.

Unfortunately, there are bad dealers out there that sell good spas. This story with Bosco is not a reflection as a company of Arctic Spas as whole. If it were, their BBB report would look like Thermospas. They wouldn’t be one of the fastest growing companies in Canada for the third straight year. They would be one of only eight spas in the world to be Spa Search certified for the last two years. I have sold Arctic Spas for seven years now, and they do things the right way.

I really wish I could help Bosco in any way. I encouraged him to go into the store and talk to the owner of the store to get things fixed.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 10:41:33 am
Quote


 Wow. I have little  tolerance for whiners and folks who play the victim. The only folks worse are idoits.

You are an a$$.
 

Bosco isn't playing the victim or whining. he's trying to get his tub fixed by documenting Artic's failure here. He is dealign with it. and this forum is an appropriate place.

Stop blaming folks? like Artic who refuse to honer thier warranty? A dealer who charges top dollar and delivers a damaged product?  Yea, it's all cool.

What a donkey.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!   ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: drewstar on August 15, 2008, 10:46:03 am
Quote

Unfortunately, there are bad dealers out there that sell good spas. This story with Bosco is not a reflection as a company of Arctic Spas
 

Bzzzzzt. That is Artic's BIG  mistake.  It IS a reflection of Artic as a whole.  


And from what I've been reading. Bosco didn't get a good spa.  He' got a bad Artic spa from a bad Artic dealer.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Wet in ChiTown on August 15, 2008, 10:46:36 am
So ... what you are saying is the they should have sent a spa tech out to screw in a few jets ????   Now I know why spas are so expensive.  Lots of money spent on doing what the owner can do themselves. "Work together"...yes...you own it, manufacture built it, and dealer sold it.  All three need to work together if there is a problem.  Just IMO. And of the three, which one do you think cars the most about your spa??   You guessed it....YOU.

I sure I am in the minority, but once I buy something I feel its mine and I am responsible for it....if everything works when I get it then the manufacture did it right. If something breaks after that...so be it.  Maybe I got a lemon. Sometimes things work longer that expected and sometimes things break earlier than expected. You just never know.

It does drive my wife crazy ... I don't even like to return stuff to Target or Walmart...I always say that "I bought it...if I changed my mind when I get home...tuff, I made the decision to buy it, I should stick with that decsion no matter what."
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BubbaGump on August 15, 2008, 10:49:47 am
Quote
Right from the Artic warranty:

"Your limited warranty does not include repair travel
mileage or for shipping cost assessed by your Factory Authorized Dealer or service agents."

This is written in their warranty you should have no problem with paying the $20 trip charge, you agreed to the terms of the warranty when you purchased the spa.

Gary

With this list of problems, I would think it would be a good idea to "comp" a trip charge...  Dont you??
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 10:53:56 am
Kimbo - I understand what you're saying but my point is, Bosco's bad dealer represents Arctic and THEIR product.  No matter which way you slice it (no pun intended), that dealer is giving Arctic a bad name from the consumers standpoint.  The second Arctic is made aware of a LEGITIMATE issue with a dealer they should step in and take control of the situation.  That's what good customer service is - don't you agree that at this point Arctic should be stepping in or do you still think that Bosco should be fighting it out with his dealer getting nothing accomplished except getting his blood pressure elevated?  When is enough enough??
Bottom line....there are some really bad dealers out there and some really good dealers out there.  Manufacturers should be a lot more motivated to "fix" or close down the bad ones and stand behind their product.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 15, 2008, 10:56:23 am
Quote

Bzzzzzt. That is Artic's BIG  mistake.  It IS a reflection of Artic as a whole.  


And from what I've been reading. Bosco didn't get a good spa.  He' got a bad Artic spa from a bad Artic dealer.


Dont just quote my last line. I meant there are bad dealers for every brand out there, not just Arctic. If you try to deny that, then your just flat out unaware of reality.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 10:56:29 am
Quote
So ... what you are saying is the they should have sent a spa tech out to screw in a few jets ????   Now I know why spas are so expensive.  Lots of money spent on doing what the owner can do themselves. "Work together"...yes...you own it, manufacture built it, and dealer sold it.  All three need to work together if there is a problem.  Just IMO. And of the three, which one do you think cars the most about your spa??   You guessed it....YOU.

I sure I am in the minority, but once I buy something I feel its mine and I am responsible for it....if everything works when I get it then the manufacture did it right. If something breaks after that...so be it.  Maybe I got a lemon. Sometimes things work longer that expected and sometimes things break earlier than expected. You just never know.

It does drive my wife crazy ... I don't even like to return stuff to Target or Walmart...I always say that "I bought it...if I changed my mind when I get home...tuff, I made the decision to buy it, I should stick with that decsion no matter what."


Chi Town - I think you're a troll but if you're not then you probably represent maybe .1% of Americans.  That's point one percent, not one percent.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Wet in ChiTown on August 15, 2008, 11:00:15 am
Maybe I was a little harsh when I said "Please stop whining."  I didn't mean it that way.

It just seems that he was hard on the company even when they were trying to work with him on his issues.  

When you take a lot of customer service call for a living, sometimes you look at it from the company side of things.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 11:05:12 am
Quote
Maybe I was a little harsh when I said "Please stop whining."  I didn't mean it that way.

It just seems that he was hard on the company even when they were trying to work with him on his issues.  

When you take a lot of customer service call for a living, sometimes you look at it from the company side of things.  


I'm in the customer service business as well (prescription benefit mgmt) and I find myself able to see both sides of the story.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 15, 2008, 11:13:28 am
Quote
I meant to post this in this topic.

Please stop whining.  There are NO guarantees in life. Warranties are just a another tactic to help them make a sale....nothing more.
 
Sometimes you kick....sometimes you get kicked. Deal with it.
 
Stop blaming everyone, fix the problem and move on.  Poop happens and you just happened to be the one to step in it.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Smile...life is fun !!!!
 ;D

Are you just trying to fan the fire? No one should be forced to "grin and bear it" as you seem to suggest. Warranties can be used as a sales tool but they also are assurances that the goods will be held to a certain standard for a certain amount of time.  

Arctic warranties the product through their dealer network. If the owner has a legitimate issue it should be taken care of regardless of whether the stumbling block is the dealer or the manufacturer. The dealer man should be rendering the appropriate services as a representative of the manufacturer but sometimes they can be part of the problem. Hopefully this will be taken care of to everyone’s satisfaction.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 15, 2008, 11:14:49 am
Quote
Kimbo - I understand what you're saying but my point is, Bosco's bad dealer represents Arctic and THEIR product.  No matter which way you slice it (no pun intended), that dealer is giving Arctic a bad name from the consumers standpoint.  The second Arctic is made aware of a LEGITIMATE issue with a dealer they should step in and take control of the situation.  That's what good customer service is - don't you agree that at this point Arctic should be stepping in or do you still think that Bosco should be fighting it out with his dealer getting nothing accomplished except getting his blood pressure elevated?  When is enough enough??
Bottom line....there are some really bad dealers out there and some really good dealers out there.  Manufacturers should be a lot more motivated to "fix" or close down the bad ones and stand behind their product.

Yes they have Bohms, and they are again. Tom was just made aware of this yesterday by Bosco, and said that he is looking into it. This is the first thing that Bosco has said in quite while. Look at his old posts. Back in October he said this in his own words:



I have been coming to this website for a couple of years now.  I used it when researching my purchase, and found alot of personal enjoyment reading the posts and learning.  
 
I have observed a couple of things that happen from time to time, and it is always the same thing.
 
1.  Some new person begins posting about what Hot tub they should buy.  They always ask, what tub is better??? without even doing homework.  Suddenly people post what tub they own and begin making blanket statements such as this model  is the best.
 
2.  Once the "Best" is stated, all different owners pipe up and say no they are not the best, "LOOK AT THEIR HISTORY".   Now on with the debate.
 
3.  Then this new poster hits the 20 to 30 mark, and has purchased a tub.  They have spent alot of money on a quality product, however, in this hottub industry, everyone thinks that they have just purchased the best thing out there.  The Rolls Royce of hot tubs.
 
4.  While waiting for delivery, a couple of posts about the excitement, last minuite tasks and suggestions before delivery, followed up with a post of pictures of the tubs arrival.
 
5. The forum responds with great setup, looks good etc etc.  (Never a negative comment, because we all remember how hard we worked to get to this point)
 
6.  Suddenly these new owners, are now experts and love to hand out bull shat lines and slamming other brands.  THIS JUST GIVES NEW POSTERS MISS INFORMATION. No evidence or intelligent research to back up these complaints.
 
7.  A problem arises and several people jump in and start slamming a company as a whole.
 
8.  The debate goes on, the post is hyjacked and then eventually the topic dies out.
 
 
Why is it when arctic is mentioned, people feel the need to make attacks on this brand.  I have had problems with my arctic, and Tom was kind enough to look into it for me.  I think this is wonderful.
 
How come in 2005 and 2006 when Sundance Maxxus tubs had a known electrical wiring problem, people didnt pipe up and slam sundance???????  This was a huge problem on this forum and many members were effected by it.  Why wasnt that poor manufacturing and poor workmanship.
 
Why is it that someone comes here and posts a defect in his shell, do people raise the question that it is because Arctic uses a different construction technology then the leading manufacturers.  Tell me how a TP tub can cause a structual issue.  For the person who posted this assumption in the post, I feel that you are just stirring the pot.
 
The bottom line is WHO GIVES A F@##$.  Your tub is the best only because it was what suited you the best.  Nothing else.  We need to stop jumping in and attacking particular brands.  
 
I think it is wonderful that this forum exists.  It creates a strong quality assurance for any company.  When people research, they need to know that every company will have problems, however, these types of forums help to create a stronger sense of accountability.  Arctic I believe has recognized this, and has created a position such as Toms to come here and read concerns and comments.  
 
It is so frustrating to constantly come here and see the stupid pointless uneducated, and bias statements.  I really wish that it would stop.
 
My 2cents.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Wet in ChiTown on August 15, 2008, 11:18:03 am
Didn't mean to start all THIS. :o

I hope Bosco gets all his issues resolved and has many years of happy soaking without any more problems.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 15, 2008, 11:24:11 am
How to Take Care of the Customer
The East Texas Spa Way


1.  Sell a quality product

2.  Deliver that product undamaged

3.  Service the product for free under warranty

4.  Service the product for the life of the product for a reasonable fee

5.  If delivery is delayed for any reason (train wreck, hijacking, sasquatch attack), provide the customer with a loaner spa at no charge

6.  Don't nickel and dime the customer

7.  Reap the benefits of a great reputation for taking care of the customer

Terminator
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 15, 2008, 11:27:30 am
Quote
How to Take Care of the Customer
The East Texas Spa Way


1.  Sell a quality product

2.  Deliver that product undamaged

3.  Service the product for free under warranty

4.  Service the product for the life of the product for a reasonable fee

5.  If delivery is delayed for any reason (train wreck, highjacking, sasquatch attack), provide the customer with a loaner spa at no charge

6.  Don't nickel and dime the customer

7.  Reap the benefits of a great reputation for taking care of the customer

Terminator

Sounds like the GoArctic way of business!!!  If every dealer had these rules, this forum probably wouldnt be necessary!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 11:29:25 am
Quote

Sounds like the GoArctic way of business!!!  If every dealer had these rules, this forum probably wouldnt be necessary!


I'm jealous - can you please send that list to my dealer?
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 15, 2008, 11:35:46 am
Quote


I'm jealous - can you please send that list to my dealer?


Whats interesting is I was brought into the pool and spa world working for a business that didnt value its customer relations.  I absolutely HATED answering the phone or helping a customer, because this dealer was so horrible at handling issues.  So I learned the hard way that its much easier to do things the right way, the first time.  Treating people with the respect that East Texas listed out, pays out so much more than charging small trip fees for warranty calls.  And hey, its actually a pleasure to answer the phone, or sit in the booth next to one of your customers at a local restaurant.  Its a great feeling, and I love being known in this neck of the woods as a fun place to work and fun place to do business.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BubbaGump on August 15, 2008, 11:51:54 am
Quote
Bohms,
I am an Arctic Dealer but I do feel the same was as you and Bosco on some things. If you re-read my posts, I have said that it bothers me that he is getting service like that, and that he has a bad dealer. He should, and expect to get good service, but unfortunately that is not happening. But, imo, this isn’t a reflection on Arctic Spas, but the dealer that sold Bosco his Arctic Spa.

I must disagree with you somewhat here.  You are correct that the Dealer should never have delivered, or possibly even received, a damaged spa, but there seems to be confusion as to who owned the spa when the "derailment" happened.  If I got in a damaged shipment of cars from an accident like that I would refuse them.  We have purchased slightly damaged vehicles at a HUGE discount, we fix them in our body shop, and we sell them with full disclosure with a big discount..  Bottom line, it sounds like Arctic forced this dealer to take delivery of damaged product.

My question is at what point does Arctic step up and help him get this taken care of.  If we serviced our customers this way, I know we would lose our contract with our MFG.

Quote
Unfortunately, there are bad dealers out there that sell good spas. This story with Bosco is not a reflection as a company of Arctic Spas as whole. If it were, their BBB report would look like Thermospas. They wouldn’t be one of the fastest growing companies in Canada for the third straight year. They would be one of only eight spas in the world to be Spa Search certified for the last two years. I have sold Arctic Spas for seven years now, and they do things the right way.

So if I hire a bad employee, it is not a reflection of my company and or my hiring skills?  This just does not add up Kimbo.  I am sure that all MFG have poor dealers, its how the "Parent Company" handles the situation that determines the quality of the overall experience.  So far, it seems that Arctic is not doing it the "Right Way" as you claim...

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BubbaGump on August 15, 2008, 11:57:28 am
Quote
I meant to post this in this topic.

Please stop whining.  There are NO guarantees in life. Warranties are just a another tactic to help them make a sale....nothing more.
 
Sometimes you kick....sometimes you get kicked. Deal with it.
 
Stop blaming everyone, fix the problem and move on.  Poop happens and you just happened to be the one to step in it.
 
Just my opinion.
 
Smile...life is fun !!!!
 ;D

Are you freakin kidding me????  A WARRANTY is a contract, not a way to close a sale.  A LEGALLY BINDING contract that can and should be honored.  

Poop happens, just deal with it???  Wow,,,  how many people poop on you?  And you dont care?

Working with someone seems to be what has happened here.  Our problem is that at some point you cannot "work" with them any more.  I do not see anything that is overly demanding here, in fact, I think he has gone out of his way to work with Arctic and his dealer to resolve the issues that have taken place.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 15, 2008, 12:00:38 pm
Again  Of course the dealer is responsible for receiving spas in excellent condition, and paying for the freight cost too there door.

But how long dose the manufacture allow a poor quality dealer to sell there product line before the damage is ireversible. For every one dissatisfied customer this results in 5 lost customer sales.

Is the dealers name on the product, or the manufactures. If the dealer fails to please the customer during the FACTORY WARRANTY who is customer going to blame, the manufacture for not controling their dealers. Nowhere does it say Dealers Warranty. Their are good dealers and bad dealers and great dealers. What makes a great dealer is going above and beyond for there customers. Manufactures cannot aford to have any bad dealers representing their product, or they will not survive no matter how good there product is. I have seen multi-billion dollar companies 100+ years old fail in a few year because  the upper management  lost  control of their dealers.

The only one that can legally say if it is under warranty or not is the manufacture by law. The dealer must get with the manufacture to determine what is and what is not covered under the factory warranty before telling the customer if it is covered or not.

So manufactures responsibly to the customer 65%  dealers 35%. Dealers can be replaced, but the manufactures in order to survive must contiinue to support that customer base at all cost. Manufactures can build the very finest product, but if there is a weak link in the support of that product then they are destined too fail, just simple business economics.

Manufactures are only as good as there dealer network, dealers are only as good as how they take care of there customers. This is why you see poor manufactured products succeed they have a very strong dealer network  with poor customer support. They close there doors and reopen under a new name selling the same crap.

I have never ever seen anything like this before trying to purchase a big ticket quality item. I always like to support the underdog. Yes I have found some very good dealers out their, but there spas did not fit. Every time I thought I found the right spa there was a dark shadow lurkig in the back ground. I am running out of quality spas to consider. I have gone back to look at many spas at least 3 times before droping them from my list, each time I find something new that I dislike. Each visit I find more missing features that are very important to my wife and myself. I have loged at least 1500 miles looking at all these spas, and many hours on the internet so I can say without a doubt  that I have done my home work. I thought I had found my perfect spa until last night when a dealer e-mailed me the BBB report on the Spa Company. Now I am back to square one. I have waited this long so looking for a few more weeks is no big deal to make the correct choice.

Sorry for the long winded post and type O's
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BubbaGump on August 15, 2008, 12:07:57 pm
Quote
Other than changing the jets Tom, arctic has done nothing for me.  New managers, new policies all this stuff, who cares.  I have been misinformed, and I feel that I have been left alone.  So for these reasons, I sit here very upset with pour quality service and lack of a solid warranty.

Again, I love my tub, I love owning an arctic tub, I have been a believer before the rest of the industry and members of this forum truely accepted Arctic Spa as a leading manufacturer.  I havent been on this board for sometime, and the only thing that I really see is more arctic dealers on this forum.  

I have sent my local store many people in to purchase an arctic spa, and will continue to recommend, but they will all know just how crappy the local service has been.  In my line of work Tom, one individual screws up, the hole department wears thier mistake, so I truely feel that your company should take a look at local service policies a little more than what is taking place.

Wow, I am not bashing here, but you would still recomend this to your friends?  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2008, 12:12:34 pm
It looks like you have all been having a good time with this.  

I spoke this morning with the service rep for Bosco's dealer.  Mary really impressed me-- she knew all about the situation, had read the thread, and had spoken with Bosco.  "He's was polite and friendly when he called us."  

A service appointment has been scheduled for Monday Aug. 18.  I don't think that four business days is a bad turnaround. I asked Mary to have the tech examine the cover and consider it for a warranty claim.   I have also put a note on my calendar to follow up with both the service dept. and Bosco next week to learn the outcome of the service call.

I checked with Bosco and he can't recall the specific error code, so we'll have to let that one go.  I'll round up a set of tech manuals for all our spa packs and make sure that both Mary and I have copies so that kind of situation shouldn't come up again.

As for the train derailment, I did ask our shipping manager about that.  Apparently there have been several derailments over the past few years, but to the best of his knowledge our product has never been involved.   Mary also checked at her end, and states that "Our tubs were never involved in a train derailment. They were however DELAYED in getting here because there was a derailment."
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BubbaGump on August 15, 2008, 01:30:55 pm
Quote
Bosco - I feel like the minority here but I agree with you 100%.  Seems like most people in this thread are either Arctic dealers or own stock in Arctic.  You're dealer is horrible and Arctic doesn't feel the need to stand behind their product or correct your dealers wrongdoings.
Wet in Chi Town must be smoking something good.  "Work together"????!!!!  Peace dude!     ::)
Bosco you have every right to expect top notch service from a supposed top notch company.
I think this post hits a nerve with me b/c my Artesian dealer is beyond HORRIBLE!!!  Artesian headquarters tells me that they can't make my dealer call me back or make them come out and fix my tub.  WHAT???!!!!  I was dumbfounded.  Anyway, my problem is fixed now but that type of customer service doesn't sit well with me......not after buying a 10K item.
Keep pressing on Bosco don't let these people make you out to be the crazy one to expect good service after spending so much money.  

Amen!!!  Sad that you have to raise this much cain to get it fixed, and it seems that several high up types in Arctic have been aware of this for some time.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 15, 2008, 01:56:41 pm
It took all this for Arctic Spas to finely response, I fined this absolutey petty with lame on there part. These are small repair issues that should have been taken care of through a third partly repair person too satisfy Bosco then bill back their dealer.

There seem to be a lot of Arctic dealers on here defending Arctic Spas the company , but at the same I don't see Arctic trying too put out this fire very quickly. This is not the kind of free advertising I would want for my company.

Looking at Bosco old post is not the proper answer to solving his problems. I feel he was extremely fair to Arctic by not posting negative remarks. But in all fairness he did contact Arctic direct and got the heave hoe. Bosco made it quite clear that he was having problems with his dealer and Arctic responded by telling him to get with his dealer, that they could not do anything for him. This is very poor customer service on both Arctic Spas and there dealer. How many other P.O. customers does this  one dealer have that Arctic Spas is ignoring.

Yes its ture that Arctic is not the only one out there doing this to the customers, is  this an acceptable answer. No. If they want to be the leader in their industry then they need set the example for everyone else to follow. Leaders lead followers fall and fail.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2008, 02:02:21 pm
Quote
I don't see Arctic trying too put out this fire very quickly.
I first heard about Bosco's post on August 14, 2008 at 11:09:53 MDT and reported at 10:12 MDT today.  Just over 23 hours.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 15, 2008, 02:03:53 pm
Nice work Tom. Keep up the good work!! :D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 15, 2008, 02:13:03 pm
Tom

This is why Arctic will never make it to number one, because of remarks like that.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bohms on August 15, 2008, 02:14:38 pm
Quote
I first heard about Bosco's post on August 14, 2008 at 11:09:53 MDT and "finally" reported at 11:12 MDT today.  Just over 24 hours.  That's too long?

Tom - I think he's talking about the previous issues about the cover and the other warranty issues where Bosco contacted you in the past.  At least that's what I think he meant.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 15, 2008, 02:15:38 pm
Quote
Tom

This is why Arctic will never make it to number one, because of remarks like that.


number one in my book, kinda like my Jayhawks!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2008, 02:50:35 pm
Quote

Tom - I think he's talking about the previous issues about the cover and the other warranty issues where Bosco contacted you in the past.  At least that's what I think he meant.

Ah.  Probably you're right.  I didn't follow up on the cover;  mistake on my part, clearly.  And one reason I worked so hard to get a fast response this time.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: BubbaGump on August 15, 2008, 03:05:28 pm
Quote
Bosco,

This isn't Tom. I am a dealer for Arctic Spas. I am angered to hear the problems that you are having.  Again, I can say with confidence that Arctic Spas stands behind their warranty. It comes with a solid warranty. Unfortunately, it sounds like you have more off a dealer issue, and not a warranty or Arctic Spas issue. It was your dealer that drilled too big of a hole. It was your dealer that doesn’t know how to properly diagnosis your error codes. It is your dealer that is charging you to come look at your spa within the warranty when you live close by, not Arctic Spas. Now, this doesnt make any of your wrongs a right, but this is is a dealer issue, and not really with Arctic Spas warranty as a whole issue. I know some of the issues you listed were not caused by the dealer, but it sounds like they were fixed. I would encourage you to go see the store owner, and tell him all the issues you are currently having, and make sure that they get resolved ASAP. Let him know that you were told you wouldn’t be charged to look at the spa within the warranty.

I wish that I personally could help you out. But, please realize that most of the things you listed have to do with a bad dealer and not a bad warranty. Unfortunately somtimes no matter what the brand is, there are going to be a few bad dealers out there that can make things hard for the customer. You can reshearch this forum, and any other for that mattter and see horror stories from owners of just about any brand, and most of the time they all have one common theme, a bad dealer. That is why many people will say on this forum that the dealer is just as important as the quality of the spa.

Isnt Arctic spas ultimately responsible for the actions of their dealers and warranty/service departments?  Arctic wrote the warranty, built the spa, and backs the warranty not the dealer.  So I am confused why you believe that Arctic is not somehow responsible...  I agree that Arctic did not make this as bad as it is, but it seems that Tom has been aware of this for quite some time, so it is not exactly "new" news.

I agree that there can be bad eggs out there, but that does not mean that Arctic is not bound to take care of their customer just because the dealer is cruddy...  Pooop or get off of the pot...

Bottom line is that the dealer is a representative of Arctic, an extension of Arctic, authorized to sell the products, display the logo, and advertise as a factory authorized facility, correct?

While this "MAY" be a bad dealer, not a bad warranty...  I think it could be both at this point.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 15, 2008, 03:11:54 pm
if you think the warranty on the Arctic is bad then you should take the time to read the fine print on all the other major manufacturers warranties.  

just sayin...
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 15, 2008, 03:19:53 pm
Quote
if you think the warranty on the Arctic is bad then you should take the time to read the fine print on all the other major manufacturers warranties.  

just sayin...

The issues seem not to be the warranty as written, but the performance of the dealer and by association of the manufacturer.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 15, 2008, 03:36:04 pm
It seems that Tom was on another forum this morning at 9:35 a.m. answering someones question. Tom only posted on here at 12:12 p.m. today giving some poor excuse.

ACTION..... speaks louder then words

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: thearm on August 15, 2008, 04:13:49 pm
Quote
It seems that Tom was on another forum this morning at 9:35 a.m. answering someones question. Tom only posted on here at 12:12 p.m. today giving some poor excuse.

ACTION..... speaks louder then words


You my friend are living in a fantasy world if you think Tom didn't respond in a timely manner. Of all the people on here helping other people Tom has been one of if not the best always calling a spade a spade! I wonder who you are going to get to respond within a 24 hr period at a manufacturing plant. Try calling your car's mfg and see how far you get. To my knowledge Tom is one of the only Managers from  SPA MANUFACTURER who actually tries to help out with issues on this forum. I for one don't own a Arctic spa but would definitly consider in light of Tom's action on this board. Well done Tom and keep up the good work
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: starsky on August 15, 2008, 04:17:38 pm
Quote
It seems that Tom was on another forum this morning at 9:35 a.m. answering someones question. Tom only posted on here at 12:12 p.m. today giving some poor excuse.

ACTION..... speaks louder then words


C'mon, lets be civil
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 15, 2008, 04:21:48 pm
Quote
It seems that Tom was on another forum this morning at 9:35 a.m. answering someones question. Tom only posted on here at 12:12 p.m. today giving some poor excuse.

ACTION..... speaks louder then words


I'm going to assume Tom was holding off posting on this site until he had something to post that would further a resolution (versus answering a simple question on another site). The Arctic dealer seems to be largely the issue here though Tom's even pretty much admitted that he needs to revisit the cover claim so I think we can cut him some slack and await results.

I suggest we wait for the gaps to be filled in first. Let's not jump to the last page, lets go through chapter by chapter.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 15, 2008, 04:46:59 pm
WHoa.

SOme of you  need to chill out.  I can share my prozac lick if you like.  Seems to me Tom is taking quite a hit here, and part of me guesses, that, he is the only member of this forum that actually WORKS for a spa manufacturer, and is not just a dealer.  

I agree with Spatech,(and mentions to starsky and thearm--well said),  I am sure Tom has been waiting to hear from the dealer and finalize issues before posting, I mean, why waste his breath?  It seems whatever happened in the past, communication may have been lost.  IDK, I am newer here.  Seems things are on the move in the right direction.  Besides, I am sure the man has other duties at his job and life in general, like we all do.

I have to wonder, what would happen if there was a manuf. rep from any other spa company out there, and what kind of attacks would be played out then? :-?

Bosco, I hope your dealer learns a lesson.  Whatever the issues, no matter how flat you make a pancake, there are still two sides.  However, I doubt that the dealers' side is any different than told.  Sounds like they are in the business of mechanical engineering (screwing things-my bad) and I would not recommend them.  However, none of these posts have swayed me from wanting an Arctic spa, I may just not end up with any spa, and use that money (that I don't have anyway!) to do something more functional to my house, and wait.  If I were you, Bosco, I would have filed a complaint with the BBB long ago with the dealer about their business practices.  I do agree with most here that a manuf. should be held to their warranties, and it is more than a selling point.  If I am spending that amt. cash on something, I want a serviceable product.  Good luck, and hopefully things will pan out.

Grumpy nurse needs some excedrin, now.  



Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 15, 2008, 04:55:07 pm
WOW.!!!!

These Arctic Spas must not be so bad after all. Just got done selling a Kodiak Legend SE to a repeat customer for his new house that will be done in October. He loved the idea of the ten year warranty and the Onzen system. Then before I was done writing him up, another couple came in and bought a Coyote Outlaw that I have had in the store for a while now. Not bad for a Friday afternoon on a cloudy day.

Gonna make the beer taste pretty good tonight for my Fantasy football draft.  :P

Tom, keep up the good work.

The Arm, couldn't have said it any better.

Peace to all, and have a great rest of the Friday.  :) :)


Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2008, 04:58:09 pm
Quote
Tom is one of the only Managers from  SPA MANUFACTURER who actually tries to help out with issues on this forum.

Thank you for your kind words and support.  I am not a manager; my actual classification is Clerk IV.

Don't be too hard on Too Tense, because he's right - so far nothing has been resolved.  All I've been able to achieve so far is to alert the dealer and ensure that a service appointment has been made.  We haven't actually changed anything for Bosco, and that's the action that counts.

Since I know that many posters are busy people who don't have time to read the whole thread, here is an update:

I spoke this morning with the service rep for Bosco's dealer.  Mary really impressed me-- she knew all about the situation, had read the thread, and had spoken with Bosco.  "He's was polite and friendly when he called us."  
 
A service appointment has been scheduled for Monday Aug. 18.  I don't think that four business days is a bad turnaround [from Bosco's first post - TG]. I asked Mary to have the tech examine the cover and consider it for a warranty claim.   I have also put a note on my calendar to follow up with both the service dept. and Bosco next week to learn the outcome of the service call.
 
I checked with Bosco and he can't recall the specific error code, so we'll have to let that one go.  I'll round up a set of tech manuals for all our spa packs and make sure that both Mary and I have copies so that kind of situation shouldn't come up again. [This material turned out to be available to all dealers on our private Tech Forum.]
 
As for the train derailment, I did ask our shipping manager about that.  Apparently there have been several derailments over the past few years, but to the best of his knowledge our product has never been involved.   Mary also checked at her end, and states that "Our tubs were never involved in a train derailment. They were however DELAYED in getting here because there was a derailment."
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 15, 2008, 05:04:40 pm
Quote
I have to wonder, what would happen if there was a manuf. rep from any other spa company out there, and what kind of attacks would be played out then? :-?


I think you could substitute Arctic for Marquis, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi ... and I think people would be upset with the situation and the same questions would be asked if the same situation was at hand.

Quote
However, none of these posts have swayed me from wanting an Arctic spa, I may just not end up with any spa, and use that money (that I don't have anyway!) to do something more functional to my house, and wait.  If I were you, Bosco, I would have filed a complaint with the BBB long ago with the dealer about their business practices.  I do agree with most here that a manuf. should be held to their warranties, and it is more than a selling point.  If I am spending that amt. cash on something, I want a serviceable product.  Good luck, and hopefully things will pan out.

Grumpy nurse needs some excedrin, now.  

I think any person who is spa shopping should take the following from this thread:

A) buy from a dealer you really feel comfortable with,
B) read your warranty, ask questions and get answers in writing (like "what will the trip charge be?" or "why did you say the warranty on the shell was XX years and this reads Y years?" or "what did this mean when its says its not transferable?"),
C) this is NOT a typical representation of what owning a spa is about, this is just an example of what CAN happen (though that's no comfort to Bosco).
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 15, 2008, 05:47:38 pm
Tom

I want to apologize to you. I got a little over vented. I have nothing against you personally. Hopethat there are no hard feelings.

D.L.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 15, 2008, 06:29:45 pm
Quote
I want to apologize to you.
Congratulations on taking part in your first Forum Feeding Frenzy*.

A few beers over the weekend will dissolve any hard feelings.    :D

Apology accepted.  

*Feeding Frenzy - I didn't make this up.  It's a known phenomenon:
1. A period of intense or excited feeding by predators, such as sharks or competing spa dealers  ;D
2. Excited activity by a group, especially around a focal point, such as when a customer receives poor service.  :-[    
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 15, 2008, 06:33:15 pm
I worked for years for a major pharmaceutical company fielding market complaints. (Chrisi..Do you remember Tubex in tamper-tel packaging?). So for what it is worth, ::) in my opinion, Tom is doing an excellent job handling this complaint.

Nothing happens instantly..especially when it involves many players..I think if we let things work out..Bosco will have a happy ending. :)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: stuart on August 15, 2008, 06:43:14 pm
OK,
Sorry but I can't keep my mouth shut here.....
We usually fix union leaks under warranty and Marquis pays for it unless it's freeze damage. They will even pay us (under the warranty term) to go out and flip the foam if a cover is sagging. So maybe Artic will step up to the plate and take care of this.
For several years I’ve been very vocal about not being a fan of how Arctic does business. Bosco has been the most stanch defender on their side and for that alone they should take care of him, he has earned it.

I am a bit troubled however that in some of our debates bosco you were adamant that you've never had one problem. That's disturbing considering your current list.
Count yourself lucky that you are a voice on this forum as I've seen manufactures cover things they normally wouldn't to keep peace around their name. My guess is that the customer pursuing normal means wouldn't be so lucky.

IMO, Arctic spends more time on marketing and story than quality and engineering but they’ve gotten pretty aggressive and taken quite a bit of the market share that way.

Their current way of manufacturing really has no track record so we don’t know if more of these problems will surface or not.

As much as I’ve frustrated them over the years I hope they will step up to the plate just to make guys like me look bad after putting my two cents in!! :D ;D 8-)

Honestly if I can be of help PM me...I mean it.

(http://media.bigoo.ws/content/gif/fishes/fishes_8.gif)

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 15, 2008, 10:58:21 pm
Just for the record, I am not trying to stir any pot, I am upset and dissapointed with the service and warranty of my arctic spa.  I dont hate the company, however, I feel that the service and sales aspect has done me wrong!  Tom, I in no way have tried to make this a witch hunt against you or arctic, however, I am of the opinion that new members interested in arctic should hear about these issues.  I feel like you let me down in February Tom, however, I am over it.  

I always have defended the bad press against arctic since I have been a member.  Stuart, you can atest to this.  I appreciate the support from everyone, however, to tell me to suck it up as one poster said, was just rediculous. I am not whinning or crying as they put it so nicely.

I do have an appointment on Monday, and feel that being charged gas for one is wrong!  I also am affraid at the same time, that my tub will have an issue not covered under warranty so it will cost me 100.00 an hour to fix.

And as for the fix it yourself comments, I have 2 responses.  First of all, 95% of the issues I have fixed myself from failed attempts from the service department.  The service department claimed work that they never did, I dont know if they made the money from arctic or what, but they deffinitely did not do what they invoiced for.
Second of all, why have a warranty if you are of this opinion.  If you are really believing what you said then you are a sucker to let companines to take advantage of you like that.  I spent the big bucks on a good tub to be protected down the road.

So, Lastly, I have mixed feelings Tom about you looking into my history with the company and posting it.  I am ok with you looking at it, and dealing with it, but it is my info to post, and I feel like you made my personal info public knowledge.  Telling people about me being nice on the phone and all that, was a little off side, just a little...

I never intended to have a shark frenzy as it has been stated and I am sorry that this has made 6 pages now.  I love my tub, I use it all the time, I am glad that I purchased it, suprised that it was damaged on delivery etc etc etc...  

For the arctic staff and owners here, I appreciate the kind words of support, I am not suprised that some have taken this as a personal attack, however, if you want to chime in, realize that I am not picking on arctic, im just venting as arctic is the tub that I own.  I would do this if it was a hotspring, jacuzzi, sundance, etc etc etc, if I was upset with the product.

Peace!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 16, 2008, 12:01:30 am
So nice to see some activity here! ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: starsky on August 16, 2008, 11:57:07 pm
Dear Bosco,

I have enjoyed reading your thread. I take no joy in the frustration you have had in getting warranty issues addressed. At the risk of getting totally off the subject, I have to say this... Your avatar makes every post you submit appear to be a crotchety old geezer  :) And I have found myself reading your posts, seeing the avatar out of my peripheral vision, and having to fight this almost subliminal urge to dismiss your complaints or observations as the ramblings of a ....crotchety old man  ;) Luckily I have read a bunch of your posts and know your a very reasonable, patient guy, but I wondered if anyone else suffered from this phenomenon other than me?        

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 17, 2008, 12:13:51 am
last year someone commented that they got freaked out reading my posts due old man joe hanging out yelling.  It is some funny stuff, wouldnt you agree?

Im a 30 year old canadian living the dream.  Im far from crotchety old, dont dismiss my comments as im a tough guy that will take you out!!!!  ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 18, 2008, 11:58:16 am
Apparently Bosco has cancelled the service call.  Please read his post here:  http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1219065401

I will reply in that thread.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 18, 2008, 12:35:58 pm
Quote
I have mixed feelings Tom about you looking into my history with the company and posting it.  I am ok with you looking at it, and dealing with it, but it is my info to post, and I feel like you made my personal info public knowledge.  Telling people about me being nice on the phone and all that, was a little off side, just a little...
Thank you for being direct.  I kind of felt the same way about your posting a PM, and maybe that was an unconscious response.  I guess I should have said something to you right away.   But you're absolutely right - our warranty records are confidential and not to be discussed in a public forum.  I do apologize, and  I will definitely bear that in mind for the future.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 18, 2008, 01:17:26 pm
Quote
WOW.!!!!

These Arctic Spas must not be so bad after all. Just got done selling a Kodiak Legend SE to a repeat customer for his new house that will be done in October. He loved the idea of the ten year warranty and the Onzen system. Then before I was done writing him up, another couple came in and bought a Coyote Outlaw that I have had in the store for a while now. Not bad for a Friday afternoon on a cloudy day.

Gonna make the beer taste pretty good tonight for my Fantasy football draft.  :P

Tom, keep up the good work.

The Arm, couldn't have said it any better.

Peace to all, and have a great rest of the Friday.  :) :)



Wow! what a blatent attempt at self promotion by an Artic dealer!  ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 18, 2008, 03:22:02 pm
Quote

Wow! what a blatent attempt at self promotion by an Artic dealer!  ;D

IMO this is a good example of a feeding frenzy post, where everybody wants to get a kick in.   Knowing Mike to be a pretty fair guy, and spotting the big grin,  I don't think he's too serious, but still...  :)

Odd that it should be a "Blatant attempt at self-promotion." when an Arctic dealer makes a comment about how well his day went, but not when another dealer shares his success?  See for example http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1216241538/5#5  (There, Term, I gave you another referral).  

There are many others, for various brands, and it's nice that dealers have good days and can encourage the rest of us by sharing them.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 18, 2008, 04:18:20 pm
Quote

IMO this is a good example of a feeding frenzy post, where everybody wants to get a kick in.

Why is it a a "Blatant attempt at self-promotion." when an Arctic dealer makes a comment about how well his day went, but not when another dealer shares his success?  See for example http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1216241538/5#5.   There are many others, for various brands, and it's nice that dealers have good days and can encourage the rest of us by sharing them.

  
Why choose this specific thread to make that post?

Come on Tom. You're not the naive, are you? While to your credit, you have gotten onto the proverbial playing field and attempted to move the ball forward in a positive way, Kimbo....errr …Firemarshall Bill has been the Arctic cheerleader.  

While I think there is nothing wrong with Arctic employees and invested parties attempting to turn this into a net positive post about Arctic (which is what they should be doing), thinly veiled comments  (rah-rah go team!!!) that have no bearing on the actual thread nor offer any real substance come across as cheap, blatant promotion.  Usually such posts end up having the reverse effect than what the poster intended.  


Feeding Frenzy?  Absolutely not.  Once again I can appreciate you attempt to contain a negative post about Arctic, but may I suggest you tread lightly and don't discount the posters in this thread by labeling it as a feeding frenzy.  Real people making valid points and expressing their opinions is not  some fluke of internet mob rule.  If you think that's all it was, then as another poster pointed out, Arctic is missing the point.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 18, 2008, 04:26:27 pm
 :-?
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 18, 2008, 04:38:10 pm


Or to put it another way, dealers and sales people should be careful  posting in threads  where their product line is taking a hit.  Authentic, quality posts help. Insincere advertising and excuses do not.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.
 :)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 18, 2008, 04:52:24 pm
Quote

Come on Tom. You're not the naive, are you? While to your credit, you have gotten onto the proverbial playing field and attempted to move the ball forward in a positive way, Kimbo....errr …Firemarshall Bill has been the Arctic cheerleader.  
 

Hey Mike:

We've got spirit yes we do, we got spirit, how bout you............. Mike!!!!!!! :)
GO ARCTIC SPAS!!!!!!! WOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! ;D ;) :)

(http://www.morethings.com/fan/saturday_night_live/snl_photos/spartan_cheerleaders/paula_abdul-david_duchovny-will_ferrell-cheri_oteri05.jpg)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 18, 2008, 05:02:35 pm
Quote

Or to put it another way, dealers and sales people should be careful  posting in threads  where their product line is taking a hit.  Authentic, quality posts help. Insincere advertising and excuses do not.

Nothing more.

Nothing less.
 :)


Mike Blute,

If your point is true about posting irrelevant issues, then why post in this thread.  Isnt this thread all about Boscos issues?  Pm's maybe a little more appropriate if you wanna get right down to it.

just sayin....
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 18, 2008, 05:14:46 pm
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/chrisi1_2008/Jaws.jpg)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 18, 2008, 06:30:22 pm
wow this has gotten way off side for me.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 18, 2008, 06:32:20 pm
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/chrisi1_2008/hijack-2.jpg)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 08:40:57 am
Quote


Mike Blute,

If your point is true about posting irrelevant issues, then why post in this thread.  Isnt this thread all about Boscos issues?  Pm's maybe a little more appropriate if you wanna get right down to it.

just sayin....


honestly, I was trying to offer some constructive criticism.  I  believe that there is room for improvement when it comes to Arctic’s management of and the relationship it has  with its dealers and sales folks.  Apparently Arctic and at least one dealer feels differently than me.  Fine with me. I can agree to disagree.  

Quote

Hey Mike:

We've got spirit yes we do, we got spirit, how bout you............. Mike!!!!!!! :)
GO ARCTIC SPAS!!!!!!! WOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! ;D ;) :)


 ::)

Yup.


 ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: thearm on August 19, 2008, 08:59:05 am
Hey People,
It sure is awful easy to kick somebody while they are down!! I agree with some posters that this has been a feeding frenzy and has gotten way out of control. I have to wonder if the problem was with a different company say one of the "elite most favored spas" on this web site, if we would have had the same response. Just curious!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 19, 2008, 10:16:08 am
thearm--kinda what I was thinking back on page 5--

have to wonder, what would happen if there was a manuf. rep from any other spa company out there, and what kind of attacks would be played out then?  

Anyhoo, I hope things get straightened out between Bosco, Tom and Arctic, despite what everyone's opinions of this whole mess are, since that is the original post.

I truly do hope that Arctic evaluates it's relationship with the company/ies that are screwing up/over Bosco and Gowyn-who I understand is gowyn' campin' for a few days.

Mike B, Thank you for letting yourself become some more bait in the feeding frenzy, since we never really hear from you otherwise??!

[glow]Bosco[/glow], hope truly your hot tub issues are and will be resolved, don't let the sarcastic undertones get to you too bad (hard as that is) and maybe things will fall in place, if not, I am sure the posters here would like to know.  [glow]Tom[/glow], please try not to let yourself get caught up in the obvious heavy opinions of the general population here, some of us do see it as it is--BS.  But, Bosco is already bitter, please don't add to it or subtract from that.

BTW, Bosco, nice tattoo--can we see more pix when it is finished?  I want a tramp stamp with my hubby's name on it, he won't go for it.  Well, I am kinda old...

 ::) ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 10:33:10 am
Quote
Hey People,
It sure is awful easy to kick somebody while they are down!! I agree with some posters that this has been a feeding frenzy and has gotten way out of control. I have to wonder if the problem was with a different company say one of the "elite most favored spas" on this web site, if we would have had the same response. Just curious!


I belive Arctic could learn a few things from EMFS.

Or not.  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 19, 2008, 10:34:51 am
Quote


I belive Arctic could learn a few things from EMFS.

Or not.  8-)


The key words would be "believe"
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 19, 2008, 10:39:29 am
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/chrisi1_2008/other_beatingA_DeadHorse.gif)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 19, 2008, 10:43:30 am
Quote
I have to wonder if the problem was with a different company say one of the "elite most favored spas" on this web site, if we would have had the same response. Just curious!

Just ask, and ya'll shall receiveth.......

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1146099616

That was a fun thread with a happy ending.

Terminator
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 11:07:34 am
Quote

Just ask, and ya'll shall receiveth.......

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1146099616

That was a fun thread with a happy ending.

Terminator


That thread and situation represents exactly what I was trying to express.

There's are reasons well beyond just the product that make EMFS the industry leader.



Quote


The key words would be "believe"


No, the key would be actions and attitudes. Not spelling. But it's all good.


Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 19, 2008, 11:17:10 am
I wasnt talking about your spelling.  I could care less about grammer, just read some of my posts.  The key to my reply was thats just what you believe.

The other key is the link that East Texas showed is great. Im glad that the consumer is happy, but it took some time.  Give Bosco and Arctic sometime and it will be taken care of as well.  I have full faith that Arctic will take care of the situation!  Thats why they are an industry leader!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 11:31:24 am
Quote
I wasnt talking about your spelling.  I could care less about grammer, just read some of my posts.  The key to my reply was thats just what you believe.

The other key is the link that East Texas showed is great. Im glad that the consumer is happy, but it took some time.  Give Bosco and Arctic sometime and it will be taken care of as well.  I have full faith that Arctic will take care of the situation!  Thats why they are an industry leader!


You know, I hope you are right. I was hopping that was the case when Bosco first had problems. But what ever. Let's not argue on how bad Boscos situation is, or about all of the problems he has been frustrated with.   When  what really matters is the customer gets taken care of in a timely manner and doens't get the run around again and again and again.

There is nothing worse than a company full of empty cheerleading and then the team not producing. That makes everyone look like morons.  I hope they can finally help Bosco  and he gets the service he was lead to belive he was purchasing. That would be great.  Don't you agree? Bosco has had his tub for a long time and I think it's high time he finally be happy with it all.  right?

I don't understand your last line though. Hotsprings is the industry leader.  Maybe it's statements like that lead to misunderstandings on the internet?

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 19, 2008, 11:41:01 am
Yes of course I would like Bosco to be taken care of.  Their isnt a lot I can do from this end, just trying to keep things in perspective until he is, cause he will be.  

You misinterpreted my last line, I didnt self proclaim ourselves as "the" industry leader like some.  I self proclaimed us as "an" industry leader.  Believe it or not, Arctic is "an" industry leader.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 11:53:57 am
Quote
Yes of course I would like Bosco to be taken care of.  Their isnt a lot I can do from this end, just trying to keep things in perspective until he is, cause he will be.  

You misinterpreted my last line, I didnt self proclaim ourselves as "the" industry leader like some.  I self proclaimed us as "an" industry leader.  Believe it or not, Arctic is "an" industry leader.


Youre right! Everyone's a leader in  some special  way.  :D
I am glad to hear that you believe Bosco will eventually be taken care of.   ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 19, 2008, 11:57:23 am
Quote


Youre right! Everyone's a leader in  some special  way.  :D
I am glad to hear that you believe Bosco will eventually be taken care of.   ;)


I will say that the EMFS is NOT a leader in my area.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 19, 2008, 12:13:32 pm
We get it guys.

There are multiple industry leaders (how about if we agree that anyone with over 5% market share qualifies?).
Some dominate one region/city but not another.
"I" before "E" except after "C" or when sounding like "eigh" as in neighbor or weigh.
Koolaid comes in multiple flavors. Let's not argue about whether the grape, the orange or the cherry is the best one.

Let's stick to Bosco's issues, hope they get resolved and let the rest go away.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 01:00:44 pm
Your are right once again. Let's hope Bosco finally gets a decent tub.  :'(


And yoru right, maybe this is only represenatis 1% of the tubs Arctic makes and Boscoe is just the poor sap who got the 1%.  That's nobody's faullt!!!  Bosco should understand that even though he isn't satisfied, just about every other Arctic customer is so it's all good.

Got it.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 19, 2008, 01:11:06 pm
Quote
Your are right once again. Let's hope Bosco finally gets a decent tub.  :'(


And yoru right, maybe this is only represenatis 1% of the tubs Arctic makes and Boscoe is just the poor sap who got the 1%.  That's nobody's faullt!!!  Bosco should understand that even though he isn't satisfied, just about every other Arctic customer is so it's all good.

Got it.


Bosco's problem has nothing to do with the quality of the spa purchased, it has more to do with the quality of service he has received.  All the components are there in place to give great service on a great product.  The dealer just needs to come thru and provide it.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 19, 2008, 01:14:42 pm
Bosco and I are working on it.
Thank you all for your concern.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 01:44:52 pm
Quote


Bosco's problem has nothing to do with the quality of the spa purchased, it has more to do with the quality of service he has received.  All the components are there in place to give great service on a great product.  The dealer just needs to come thru and provide it.


Ok.

[
Quote
quote author=Bosco]
Anyways, now that I have your attention Tom, this warranty sucks.  You know it and I know it.  I have contacted arctic several times
 
1 brand new tub delivered DAMAGED, i was told that the cedar was damaged due to a train derailment and that they would replace the cedar piece.    BULL SHAT no replacement, instead a guy came and sanded that piece and restained it.  Looks like crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
2 a month old the pump went for a dive, service guy comes out, replaces the pump, not with the new pumps that you all went with but with the older one.  Great service....but leaves all the water under the compartment.
 
3 I ask a question about this forever floor that keeps rodents out.  Why did I have a bunch of mice in my shell living the warm winter, because the forever floor failed me.  Why you ask, because the guys that installed my tub drilled a hole to big for the wire, and left the bottom exposed, and the service department says, not a warranty issue.
 
4 Loud vibration coming from the pump area.  Not a warranty issue, must pay the 100.00 hourly fee to assess it.  So I get in there and find the ground wire poorly installed when the service department set up the wiring to the tub. they wrapped it and bent it into place rather than cutting it properly.  
 
5 30 of my 33 jets now replaced as they have all needed replacement.  Arctic says in the warranty that if we change anything on our own it will void warranty.  So if the jet housing goes for a dive now, does that mean I am not covered because I put new jets in???
 
6  Two weeks ago, I call with concerns about error messages.  I am told that they have no idea what it could mean but if the problem persists than call us back.  We could come and check it out, but it will cost you.
 
7 My tub is flooded in the cabinet.  Im told that if service comes, you pay gas fee for them to go around the corner to your house for 20.00.  Then im told to go out there and tighten all the clamps or else I pay 100.00 if that was the problem.  If it is anything else then they will pay for it.  So I might as well be a hotub repair man as they dont want to come out unless they have to.

[/quote]

I want to believe you, but the above list sure seems to me to be more than just a under achieveing service department.  
 :-?

  Good luck Bosco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 19, 2008, 02:13:29 pm
call us cheerleaders, I call you


(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/waylon33/08_hand_drill_452.jpg)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 19, 2008, 02:21:21 pm
This is probably more accurate:

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/ad-Gujarati.jpg)

Term
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 02:48:31 pm
Quote
call us cheerleaders, I call you


(http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj88/waylon33/08_hand_drill_452.jpg)


You represent the Arctic name, correct?

Good luck Bosco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 19, 2008, 02:59:24 pm
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/chrisi1_2008/hijack.gif)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 19, 2008, 03:01:35 pm
Hey Mike

Enough is enough already. I don't know who you work for, or who you represent, but like many have asked, let this one die for a while will ya??

Tom and Boscoe are working on getting his problems fixed.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 19, 2008, 03:08:31 pm
(http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/chrisi1_2008/thth112112_large.jpg)

Just trying to keep things light!! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 19, 2008, 03:38:13 pm
Quote
Hey Mike

Enough is enough already. I don't know who you work for, or who you represent, but like many have asked, let this one die for a while will ya??

Tom and Boscoe are working on getting his problems fixed.


I agree!!!   If you guys spent half as much time trying to resolve customer problems rather than sling mud on the net  Arctic really would be the industry leader!  Enough! Get back to trying to fix your customer problems!!!!!!!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 19, 2008, 03:41:25 pm
[size=18]sling mud [/size]

 :-? :-? :-? :-?
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 19, 2008, 04:30:27 pm
Quote


If you guys spent half as much time trying to resolve customer problems rather than sling mud on the net  Arctic really would be the industry leader!

We go through this too often; mud slinging and Kool-Aid are not brand specific around here!

There is nothing different about GoArctic's or F.M. Bill's allegiance to Arctic than there is with Jim-Jacuzzi or Term/Chas-Hot Spring or Markee-Marquis…

[glow]So what's the latest news Bosco??[/glow]
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Vinny on August 19, 2008, 04:55:08 pm
Quote

Just ask, and ya'll shall receiveth.......

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1146099616

That was a fun thread with a happy ending.

Terminator

WOW!

I was part of that thread and it wasn't anywhere as nasty as this has gotten!

But keep it up, I believe you have a few more pages to go before you surpass that thread in length.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 19, 2008, 04:58:35 pm
Quote

We go through this too often; mud slinging and Kool-Aid are not brand specific around here!

There is nothing different about GoArctic's or F.M. Bill's allegiance to Arctic than there is with Jim-Jacuzzi or Term/Chas-Hot Spring or Markee-Marquis…or SpaMan-----Whichever Brand Nowadays. :D

[glow]So what's the latest news Bosco??[/glow]
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 19, 2008, 05:17:03 pm
update, i have the crew coming tomorrow, Tom has been rallying in my corner and really helping me out.  I should no more by tomorrow, if worst comes to worst then I will have to pay the hourly rates to get this fixed. best case is that it is a warranty issue and they will fix it.  Fingers crossed!!!!!!

and for the rest of this enough is enough, why is everyone fighting and stealing this post???? this is my post
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 19, 2008, 05:18:30 pm
Quote
Jim-Jacuzzi or Term/Chas-Hot Spring or Markee-Marquis…or SpaMan-----Whichever Brand Nowadays.

You tried to slip that last one by LOL.

Too bad Spaman isn't around much anymore. I love to needle him!!! Stuart must have him busy prepping preowned units!!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: stuart on August 19, 2008, 05:35:00 pm
Quote

You tried to slip that last one by LOL.

Too bad Spaman isn't around much anymore. I love to needle him!!! Stuart must have him busy prepping preowned units!!
Are you kidding!!! You think we would give him tools?! Why ruin a good salesman!!! Actually he's pretty good at finding problems in the tradein's when we are not busy, then he tears them apart and tells me I need to fix them!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 19, 2008, 06:40:42 pm
Bosco, I was thinking the same thing. Somehow this entire thread went from being about some issues that you were having with your tub to an Arctic bashing event.

I knew Tom would come through for you but he probably had protocol to follow; some on here expected instant results. You were the only one who had to be satisfied, but it seems that some folks had a perverse need to be satisfied by soliciting responses from the Arctic guys to antagonistic statements .  None of that helped your cause! You posted when you were frustrated and angry but there is no reason for it to perpetuate. ..

I have a  question (or three), Bosco..If all of your issues were resolved to your satisfaction, would you have ever said anything at all on here?  Would you have posted that your tub had all these problems but they were taken care of? Or would you have continued to say that you loved your tub and never mentioned the problems? I guess I don't remember you talking about the other problems until this one unresolved one came up. (or did I just miss the other posts?)
In my mind, if you are taken care of and things are made right ..that's the best you can hope for.

Anyway, I have a good feeling that Bosco will be happily soaking and singing the praises of his Arctic again..And we'll all go for a nice long soak and be nice to one another again. ;D ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 19, 2008, 07:00:13 pm
Quote

I have a  question (or three), Bosco..If all of your issues were resolved to your satisfaction, would you have ever said anything at all on here?  Would you have posted that your tub had all these problems but they were taken care of? Or would you have continued to say that you loved your tub and never mentioned the problems? I guess I don't remember you talking about the other problems until this one unresolved one came up. (or did I just miss the other posts?)
In my mind, if you are taken care of and things are made right ..that's the best you can hope for.

Those are great points.

If a customer gets a spa, almost immediately has an issue but gets prompt, thorough, hassle-free service he may be so impressed with the way it’s handled that he recommends the spa/dealer/manufacturer even MORE than another customer who never has an issue (which may seem counterintuitive but is often true).

Quality and Service go hand in hand. I know one spa manufacturer has gotten a bad name with many over the years for Quality and lack of prompt, thorough, hassle free service. How much better would their reputation be if their quality was unchanged but they provided great service?
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: stuart on August 19, 2008, 08:06:45 pm
Do you remember the conversation a few years ago at a homeshow I posted that I had with a customer (M=me C=customer)

C: "We have a 6 year old CalSpa"
M: "Oh really? How is it holding up"  
C: "Great, never had a bit of trouble with it!"
M: "Really? Say, have you had your pump seals checked?"
C: "Oh we replaced both pumps twice"
M: "...but never a bit of problem?"
C: "Nope been great! New heater really works well!"
M: "You had to put a new heater in?"
C: "Yeah, they replace that every once in awhile along with the circulation pump."  
M: "Wow, I'm glad it's held up so well...."
C: "Yeah, we might be talking to you in a couple of years though...I just noticed some little cracks in the shell"
M "hmmmm, but it's held up for you good?!"
C: "YEP!"

I just shook my head as they walked away thinking that  they've probably yelled at their dealer but wouldn't admit to a stranger that there might have been a flaw in their choice.

Honestly, I love my Marquis and we replaced it because of micro crazing cracks....Marquis has never once denied or even argued about a warrenty repair or replacement. They've even taken care of customers that where just out of warranty and didn't call until they got back from vacation.

All spas can have problems, we don't here about those problems on this forum unless it's not handled or handled incorrectly.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 19, 2008, 11:44:01 pm
i would think that it was the totality of the situation for me personally.  I have had issues and hickups along the way but minor enough to let stuff go.  Then over the past year, some bigger issues that I felt were left on deaf ears.  Now something big, and I felt misinformed by my sales guy and feel that the warranty and service department let me down.

So if all gets fixed, I will be happy again.  I have a bitter taste in my mouth from all the things that have happened and not happened.  As a result, I will do what i have done, explain that i love my tub, arctic is a great product, but I will express to potential buyers to really learn about the dealer and service before buying.

Also I will warn potential buyers about the sub par warranty.  I will tell them about Tom and all of his hard work when he is not getting mad at me ;)  Hope this helps a bit bonnibelle.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 20, 2008, 07:40:42 am
Bosco, I didn't mean that your anger shouldn't "perpetuate", I mean some of the comments from all of us on the forum. You seem like a very forgiving guy..you just want things to be right (as they should be).  ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 20, 2008, 08:19:49 am
A-MAZ-ING.

Arctic Bashing?

What's become of this place? Honestly.

An Arctic customer posts that for over 2 years he has had unresolved issues with his tub.  He is now forced to bring it to the boards because his service department is unresponsive.

I don't care what brand of tub it is. From a consumer's standpoint that's unacceptable.  Aboslutely unacceptable. let the chips fall were they may.  It's well past the point of a slip up. This is poor customer service that is only getting resolved becasue of the negative attention. That's the truth.

Arctic bashing? Why because  one dealer tried to distance Arctic from the dealer and I pointed out that from a consumers standpoint, they're one in the same?

Arctic Bashing? Why? Because in the middle of a serious issue an Artic Dealer attempts to turn this into self promotion and I remind him that it could come across the wrong way?

Arctic Bashing, becuase Arctic dealers say if it was Hotsprings it would be different?
Yet when an actual thread showing How HOtspigns handled a similiar situation it proved the Arctic dealer wrong?

Arctic Bashing because Arctic dealers post derogatory pictures?

This thread could have gone in any number of directions, but each time a potential negative issue about Arctic came up, the Arctic dealers got defensive and rather than fix the issue, they got nasty, and  why, but it alsways it happens, they start bringing in Hotsprings.  

For some of you   dealers,  it comes across as sour grapes or maybe HS envy.


Anhyhow, I don't represent any hot tub company other than the now defuct Pehonix rebrander from CO. If folks think there was unjustified Arctic bashing brought on for no good reason, then I respectufly disagree with you. But bashing? That sounds like whinning.


Let's call a spade a spade and Arctic needs to get on top of this, if that's a negative against Arctic, too bad,  Fix it Arctic and  make it into a huge win, but don't post here and cry foul for you own mistakes and start crying about  "bashing".  This post could have been, (and still could be) A huge Pro Arctic thread, but it looks to me like they are playing a small defensive game here and I resent the charges of bashing.  

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 20, 2008, 08:37:13 am
Ok, I will retract my bashing statement...but some of the comments were made to create caustic reactions..and that's what happened.
I was glad that you brought up the Hot Springs thread because I thought of the same thread and how it was finally resolved. If you recall that didn't happen over night. And I believe that intervention from some of the wonderful HS guys on here had much to do with that!

Bosco is going to get this resolved. He will be happy with everything about his tub again. We all realize that at some point we will have to pay for out of warranty things. It is prudent that eveyone understand their warranty as it is written, not as a sales person presents it. They may not present it with intentional misinformation, instead they may not totally understand the warranty themselves.

To continuously remind Bosco that this is totally unacceptable doesn't help anything..The wheels are turning. Through Tom and this experience, Arctic may revisit the way it presents warranty information and perhaps even revise warranties. The dealer has been publicly challenged on their sales tactics and definately embarrassed about customer service. Something positive may come from all that. Sometimes it takes complaints like this to move companies forward to change things.

And my final comment, Mr. Mike..if your GMC vehicle broke down and your GMC dealer wouldn't honor what you thought was the warranty and repair it to your satisfaction...do you think he would care that Ford repaired $500000000 vehicles last year? NOPE, he doesn't care. So how Hot Springs handled a situation doesn't help Bosco. :) ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 20, 2008, 08:49:15 am
 
Quote
And my final comment, Mr. Mike..if your GMC vehicle broke down and your GMC dealer wouldn't honor what you thought was the warranty and repair it to your satisfaction...do you think he would care that Ford repaired $500000000 vehicles last year? NOPE, he doesn't care. So how Hot Springs handled a situation doesn't help Bosco. :) ;)

It does if the GMC Generall Manager is reading the thread.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 20, 2008, 08:57:56 am
As Tom has stated a few times ALREADY he is getting it taken care of.  So, their is really nothing we as Arctic dealers can do but sit and watch.  Im not going to let someone call me out as a cheerleader or a moran on a public forum though!

I am very confident in this all getting handled and Bosco will in turn see that Arctics warranty is valuable.  The disclaimers in Arctics warranty are no different than any other spa manufacturers warranties.

Like the mod just said, it took some time for HS to get their issue resolved that was pointed out yesterday.


ps no envy here for the HS guys.  Im plenty proud of the product line that I buy and sell!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 20, 2008, 09:46:16 am
Now could all you cheerleaders please start cheering for the
Philadelphia Eagles....it goes like this:

Fly Eagles Fly..on the road to victory...
Fly Eagles Fly...make a touchdown one two three..

Hit 'em low, hit 'em high
as we watch our Eagles Fly...

Fly Eagles Fly.. ;D ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 20, 2008, 10:26:55 am
Quote
Now could all you cheerleaders please start cheering for the
Philadelphia Eagles....it goes like this:

Fly Eagles Fly..on the road to victory...
Fly Eagles Fly...make a touchdown one two three..

Hit 'em low, hit 'em high
as we watch our Eagles Fly...

Fly Eagles Fly.. ;D ;D


Chieffffffffffffffffffffffffssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though we will be terrible this year.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 20, 2008, 10:42:54 am
Bonn, you are going to need more than a fly eagles fly song to help your team out  :o

Mike relax and please stop taking my post and starting fights, honestly man, enough already!!!

I cant believe that you could take my issues, and make it look like you are defending me by having an arguement where you keep repeating the same thing. STOP STOP STOP!!!

as for my tub, fingers crossed, I should hopefully know a little more today, unless the tech cant find the leak or whatever it is that is causing water to get inside the cabinet.  I hope it all gets worked out, as I want my tub to work again.

Not like it matters I still cant use the tub with my new tattoo.  Man im in pain, stressed out and angered, I need a soak.  In the words of Kramer, 'Im freaking out Jerry"
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 20, 2008, 10:46:12 am
Chrisi is the nurse here, but would cold packs help? I make fabric bags and fill them with rice and flax and freeze them. They are gentle on the skin and seem to really help with burns (I imagine that is a similar pain). You can do something very similar with a bag of frozen corn or peas. just use a soft cloth between the bag and your skin. might be worth a try.

Good luck  ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 20, 2008, 11:08:06 am
Quote


Chieffffffffffffffffffffffffssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Even though we will be terrible this year.  

I'm guessing 4 wins on the low end for the Chefs and 6 wins on the high side (or maybe closer to .500 if Coyle somehow channels Tom Brady)!! The only thing KC fans really have to look forward to is the '09 draft IMO!  ;D

At least those Jayhawks had a great season last year and this year should be decent. Who would have ever though a KU football team would be good!?!? The hardest part of watching a KU game is seeing their coach on the sideline and wondering if he's going to drop from a heart attack in the middle of the game! Someone needs to push his away from the buffet table!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 20, 2008, 11:27:40 am
Quote

I'm guessing 4 wins on the low end for the Chefs and 6 wins on the high side (or maybe closer to .500 if Coyle somehow channels Tom Brady)!! The only thing KC fans really have to look forward to is the '09 draft IMO!  ;D

At least those Jayhawks had a great season last year and this year should be decent. Who would have ever though a KU football team would be good!?!? The hardest part of watching a KU game is seeing their coach on the sideline and wondering if he's going to drop from a heart attack in the middle of the game! Someone needs to push his away from the buffet table!


I think your spot on with your analysis of the upcoming Chiefs season.  The only thing that can change that is if the young offensive line gels early on and plays well.  Remember things change very quickly in the NFL.  Nobody really saw that Giants d-line developing as quickly as they did at the end of last season.

As far as the Hawks go, they are in good hands with the big fella, he can coach with the best of em and has learned from two the of best coaches of this era. (Bob Stoops and Bill Snyder)  He has trimmed up a bit, as he knows his big payday relies on himself losing a few pounds.  Something tells me had he been a little slimmer last year he would have been offered HUGE dollars to coach elsewhere.  KU just opened up some very impressive football facilities and plans on being a force for the longhaul whether college football fans respect them or not!  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wewannahottub on August 20, 2008, 11:51:12 am
Quote
Bonn, you are going to need more than a fly eagles fly song to help your team out  :o

Mike relax and please stop taking my post and starting fights, honestly man, enough already!!!

I cant believe that you could take my issues, and make it look like you are defending me by having an arguement where you keep repeating the same thing. STOP STOP STOP!!!


Thank you Bosco!!  I was thinking the same thing!!  I was going to offer a lick of my Prozac lick or a spritz of my Valium-in-a-can to Mike if he didn't chill out soon!!!  I never see a post from him otherwise.

As far as your tattoo is concerned, I would guess boni would be right, I don't see the problem with icing your tattoo and even alternating it with heat, the rice bags Boni uses I have bought and micorwaved for about 2-3 minutes with a cup of water next to it (to prevent burning).  I have never had a tattoo, but would like one with my hubby's name on it.

As Far as all you football fans go---


[size=24]GO STEELERS!!  STEELERS ROCK!!  GO STEELERS!!![/size]


HEEHEEHEE!  We'll see you in Philly!!!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 20, 2008, 12:12:41 pm
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/2054996921_454b593c5a-1.jpg)

One of the best T-shirts ever!

Term
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: D.P. Roberts on August 20, 2008, 12:13:51 pm
Quote

Anhyhow, I don't represent any hot tub company other than the now defuct Pehonix rebrander from CO.

Defunct? When did that happen? I mean, I know defunct was always a semi-permanent state with that guy, but is he really gone? Like Wicked-Witch-of-the-West gone?
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 20, 2008, 12:14:46 pm
Quote
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/2054996921_454b593c5a-1.jpg)

One of the best T-shirts ever!

Term


whats funny is the maker of those shirts has a local t-shirt shop in Lawrence, and was recently sued by KU for using their trademarks on those shirts.  He has some pretty good ones that he sells, with that being one of the best.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 20, 2008, 12:50:40 pm
Getting back on topic, the following is a summary and update of the situation provided by the service center and posted at the request of the President of the Oakville Group to demonstrate that they have responded promply to these issues.   I have replaced the customer's name with his forum ID.

On Thursday August 14, 2008 [Bosco] had phoned in claiming that GFCI was tripping and that he may have a leak. He stated that he was not noticing the water level lowering, therefore it was obviously not a very major leak. Our service dispatcher had then asked [Bosco] if he had checked his pump unions and he had said no. Our dispatcher had then explained that if we schedule a service call and find that it is a non warranty issue we would have to bill him for the service call. We booked a service call for the SAME day. The customer called back shortly after that to cancel the scheduled appointment because he indicated that he shop vacced the pooling water and that the breaker was no longer tripping and told our dispatcher that the pump unions were fine and could not see any leaks and his tub was up and running.
 
On Friday August 15, [Bosco] called back and informed us that there was some water pooling again but there was no water loss in the spa and could not see any drips of any type. Our service advised him that the pooling water may be caused by excessive rain water migrating to the low spot. It was agreed that he would monitor the situation and if need be he would cancel the service call which was pre-scheduled for Monday August 18. Customer then left a message over the weekend to cancel the call scheduled for Monday August 18. His message indicated that the spa was running fine and cabinet was dry inside. Customer then again phoned us Aug.19/08 after a heavy rain the previous night to notify us that he is having same problems again. Customer believes rain water is getting in the cabinet through the doors somehow. We told him that weather stripping around the doors would prevent that and if we had to send a service tech out for completing this work it would be of a non warranty nature and that there would be a billable service call . There is a call scheduled for today, August 20 to assess the situation. The only charge to date is a trip charge for today’s call for $19.95.
  
Dennis Brikmanis
Manager, Customer Service
Arctic Spas Oakville Group

This brings everyone up to date except for the results of today's service appointment.

Water may occasionally be driven into a spa by heavy rain, but it is not a frequent occurrence.  I checked with owner James Kierstead about the weatherstripping, and learned that it has been considered and rejected.  Weatherstripping the doors is not really necessary; we don't want the spa to be airtight.  Because the Arctic Spa is so well insulated, sealing the doors would reduce air infiltration for the blower and would increase the chance of overheating.

If Bosco (or any other owner) considers weatherstripping the doors, I would advise only a thin strip along the top and sides, leaving the bottom open.  Take care not to leave a  gap for insects to get in.  But under normal weather conditions and especially in warm climates, weatherstripping is neither necessary nor advised.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 20, 2008, 02:15:46 pm
hello all, just an update.  The service guy is here and an amazing guy.  He said that much water could not be rain, tested it and tested positive for bromine..... Tub water therefore leak somewhere.  Well after much head scratching and testing, he has located the issue we think.  On the pump motor or whatever its called, there is something called the wet end, he said it appears to be cracked and slow leaking.  So replacing right now, just going to run it for a few days and see if it is fixed.  If so, I will be one happy camper, however still upset about this sudden trip charge fee, but happy none the less.

Cover is being investigated by my man Tom, hope that gets worked out and I am going to be sanding and restaining the tub next week to make it look pretty again, i will fill the dents and dings from delivery.  

Fingers crossed, this should be it, but you never know, you just never know.  Now off to work I go, to save my fine city from crime and dissorder!!!!

Later.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on August 20, 2008, 02:40:05 pm
 The jist of this ordeal comes down to the dealer, Arctic or any manufacturer is responsible in the end of something serious, but if this dealer had just said hey will come check it out it!!  It wouldn't have gone this far period.  Chit didn't I read he can see the store sign from his house??  ::)

     In my opinion the dealer is suppose to be there for the customer,the manufacturer is suppose to be there for the dealer, and if the dealer cant hold up his end of the deal the manufacturer steps in, it just creates more headaches for the customer and more hoops to jump through when that happens.   In the big scheme of things its the dealer that took the customers money and vowed to take care of him.   I'm not saying the manufacturer isn't off the hook but he relies on the dealer to solve the problem!

   It floors me the service people here get from dealers they have bought from, and its not just Arctic but every make thats sold.

 Bosco hope ya get taken care of!!    

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 20, 2008, 02:47:51 pm
Quote
The jist of this ordeal comes down to the dealer, Arctic or any manufacturer is responsible in the end of something serious, but if this dealer had just said hey will come check it out it!!  It wouldn't have gone this far period.  Chit didn't I read he can see the store sign from his house??  ::)

     In my opinion the dealer is suppose to be there for the customer,the manufacturer is suppose to be there for the dealer, and if the dealer cant hold up his end of the deal the manufacturer steps in, it just creates more headaches for the customer and more hoops to jump through when that happens.   In the big scheme of things its the dealer that took the customers money and vowed to take care of him.   I'm not saying the manufacturer isn't off the hook but he relies on the dealer to solve the problem!

   It floors me the service people here get from dealers they have bought from, and its not just Arctic but every make thats sold.

 Bosco hope ya get taken care of!!    



well said jj, you and I think alike!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 21, 2008, 12:23:31 am
12:19am, went outside almost 12 hours have gone by and the cabinet is bone dry.  So fingers crossed the tech diagnosed the problem properly and we are off to the races.  So the wet end had a crack in it causing all of the leaking.  The rest is history, I hope.  

Tom again, thanks for helping me out.  I know that the service department wanted it to be something trivial to rub the salt in my eyes, however, they cant now as it was a legitimite issue.

This tech that came to my house has brought my respect back to the company a little, he was amazing, smart and fair and down to earth, real easy to talk to.  If arctic people are reading, they could take a lesson from his customer service and professionalism.  I mean this honestly, he was amazing.

Now on to phase two...................THE COVER
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 21, 2008, 07:57:58 am
 :)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Mike Blute on August 21, 2008, 08:47:01 am
Bosco

I appologize if it seems I was trying to start fights, that was never my intention.


Was the pump replaced under warrenty?  Is this the same pump they replaced before?

I know you mentioned that the trip fee was not part of your orignal agreement. Was that ever resolved? Form tom's post it looks like there was a trip fee.

I know you mentioned they are looking at the cover, have they addressed the other concerns  (the floor, the vibration, the jets???)

I like the idea that the tech tested the pooling water for Bromine. That's nice trick. (Rather than the back and forth about the rain, if the tech on the phone knew that trick then it would have made diagnosing the issue easier;  Phone tecs: Are you paying attention? that's a handy tip to put in your library.)

Good luck.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 21, 2008, 02:49:12 pm
 :)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 21, 2008, 02:51:14 pm
Quote
Now on to phase two...................THE COVER
Phase II update: replacement approved under warranty.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Cdn HockeyPuck on August 21, 2008, 04:03:43 pm
Way to come through Arctic!

It looks like a happy ending will come out of this but I still wonder about the trip charge the dealer is charging for gas for an issue that is covered under warranty! :o :-? ::)  Especially when Bosco can see the dealership.  :o
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Bonibelle on August 21, 2008, 04:19:32 pm
Please lets let it go....the trip charge is a couple of hot dogs at the ball park. Bosco was angry about it, but I am sure he will feel it is no big deal at this point.

don't you love a happy ending..thanks Tom.. ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: In Canada eh on August 21, 2008, 06:30:32 pm
I've stayed out of this thread until now.


[size=20]Nice job Tom!![/size]
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tom on August 21, 2008, 06:36:35 pm
Thank you for the back-pats but I'm still annoyed with myself   >:( - if I'd only done my job right back in February etc.       :-/

Time to move on.   :-?
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 21, 2008, 11:47:43 pm
just got home from work and look what I see, phase two complete.  Tom I am very pleased that my tub is fixed and that the cover is being taken care of.  Tom another thing, if that service tech can be rewarded, positive profile or award or some crazy thing like that, it should be done.  His name was Norm i think.  He knew I was pissed, and when he came in, he took away all my concerns and anger right off the hop.  

He was empathetic to my issues and was able to diagnose the problem right away.  Honestly, if I can choose who will come and fix my tub it will be this guy from here on in.  He was so helpful, as were you Tom.

And for the record, I dont want people to think because things worked out that I am pleased.  I still want to fight this trip charge fee, it should be grandfathered in no back dated to all customers, the warranty needs to be explained better to potential buyers as I was lied to, and I think the service people that take the calls should be more informative.

When I paid for my tub and warranty, I expected that if something went wrong then it would be taken care of.  I did not think that someone on the phone would 1. try and walk me through fixing it myself via an email or talking it over on the phone. 2. I dont think that a proper respone to an error message should be "I dont know' and 3, I shouldnt be affraid of having someone attend when there is an obvious issue out of fear that I am going to be billed as it is a non warranty issue.

Tom, stop saying that you dropped the ball because at the end of the day, you told me that you couldnt help me, call my dealer.  So I did, twice, and it got me no where.  I didnt reply to you because I thought that there was nothing that you could do so I left it.


Now if you really want to make me happy tom, can you send someone to re-stain my hottub??? :P

thanks again for all of your help tom, and for everyone offering support during this difficult time.  I have said it several times in my posts, I love my tub, I love my arctic tub, i still feel that the ball was dropped here but the efforts this week have helped restore a little bit of trust.  I only hope that the service methods are addressed with the Oakville company.

I dont want to think this, but I really feel that arctic has gotten to big for its bridges and is starting to forget the customer and concerned more about the dollar, but as long as they have solid guys like tom and norm kicking around, I will stay a satisfied customer.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 22, 2008, 12:28:52 am
OK  I am going to chime in now.

In the dealer's defense, they are actually doing customers, including Bosco, a service when they explain if the issue is not covered under the warranty it is billable.

Remember, it is the manufacturer's warranty, not the dealer's.  In the case of the Arctic warranty, tightening unions is not covered.  If a tech shows up and tightens a union who should pay for that?  The manufacturer is not going to.  If the dealer did not disclose on the phone, and it turned out to be non warranty, then Bosco or any other customer would have every right to be p*ssed.  You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 22, 2008, 08:18:25 am
welll dan, I wil say that it is trivial however, what about the person that is elderly or disabled and relys on the tub for theraputic reasons.  I mean what if they are unable to work on it.  I have heard an arctic story recently and it made me sick.  An elderly lady with MS relies on her tub for comfort.  One day a fuse blows and she physically cant get in the tub to fix it.  They charge her 100.00 an hour to come out and fix it, even after the situation was explained to arctic.  How is that not about the dollar, where the hell is the customer care??

If I pay for warranty I expect to be covered.  Why the hell cant a tech come to someones house and check the tub.  Non warranty claim?? as far as I am concerned it should be all covered under warranty that is why we pay the big ticket price for a good tub.

I purchased a warranty for my fridge and when the ice maker circuit board blew, how the hell was I suppose to know that? It was a 5 min. job but how could I, a non repair oriented person determine that on my own.  The company came and fixed the fridge for me.  I never got charged gas fees or a fee for it being minor.

I purchased a new vehicle last year, and the front shocks had air stuck in them, so when it was freezing cold the shock or strut whatever was banging and freezing up.  Im not a mechanic, they never said hoist the car up and take a look, it may not be covered under warranty.  It was there product, it was under warranty they fixed it, simple.

My wife took our other vehicle in for an oil change under warranty.  While there they replaced 3 call back pieces and noticed a tail light burnt out.  The tail light was a minor 5min fix, but they did it and for free. It was under warranty but this was not a warranty issue, but they still did it. Guess what, we have purchased 3 cars from this company, they know customer service.

I purchased an ipod from costco of all places.  i had it for three years and paid like 400.00 for it.  it went for a dive, and i had the box and reciept for it.  I took it back out of a 90 day warranty and they gave me all of my money back.  Thats good customer service.

I can keep going but I think that you get the point.  Take out being a owner or dealer or affiliated to a company. think about something that you own.  Think about times that you get warranty work done and think to yourself, wow I am so glad that I paid extra for that warranty. Think about that one time where you felt alone with no support even though you had a warranty in hand and how bad you felt.  

A warranty is a warranty it should protect you.  and if something is not covered under a warranty a good customer service driven company should say, they will take care of it.  If a tech is in the area one day during the week, why the hell cant a good customer service department say, we will send a tech to check the tub.  5 min or 10 min to check if it is the clamps come one please.  How much did that really cost the company????

I want you to think next time that you have a car issue or something that you no very little about.  Think about the service department saying check this this and this and only bring the car to us once you have done all of that or we will not cover it under warranty.  That would be pretty crappy in my opinion.

So dan, I am going to disagree.  With a good customer service dealer, I would say you can have it both ways.  I read a post from term saying that they go out and tighten those parts for FREE.  How many negative posts are here about his dealership???? how many times do you see his customers join this forum and brag about the quality service, or if there was an issue it was addressed instantly!!!!  That is having it both ways dan.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 22, 2008, 10:30:01 am
Simple answer.  I think we can easily come to an agreement.  You are not complaining about the warranty.  Your are complaining about customer service.

Again, manufacturer has a warranty.  Dealer gets paid to perform warranty service.

Customer has an issue that is not warranty.  Your dealer (most dealers) charge for performing a service that is not warranty, which a well trained consumer could do.  You wish they wouldn't charge.  That goes under the category of customer service, not warranty.

Would you be so concerned if when you bought the spa they explained you have a warranty and there are a few things not covered.  Just as with a car, there are a few maintenance things you have to do, cleaning filters, water chemistry, tightening unions...and there are a few items that are not covered, such as filters and pillows.  Then if you had to tighten a union and they reminded you to would that be ok?

Would that be acceptable customer service?

Not saying your situation was handled well.  Not saying you got good customer service.  Just saying that in my opinion you got poor customer service, no issue with the warranty, other than wishing is covered what it doesn't.



Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 22, 2008, 11:13:46 am
I feel that it is the dealers responsibility to go over the manufactures warranty with the customer so their is a clear understanding as to what is and what is not covered under the warranty. This is one of if not the most important item that can make or break a sale. Also everything that is stated by the sales person should be put in writing so down the road its not he/she said this was covered.

I have been shopping now for 3 months and most dealers never mention anything about the warranty. Only a few have gone into details about the manufactures warranty and some have made statement that are very misleading. This has made me very cautious as to who I will do business with, right now I am still not sure. To spend up words of 12k on a spa and not know what problems will occur when you need service is quit disturbing.

Actions speak loader then words.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 22, 2008, 11:33:05 am
This thread reminded me of a old thread on here from a while back that was brought up about dealers that charge trip or gas surcharges while the spa is still under warranty.

You can see in this thread below that most dealers on this forum DO charge a trip or gas surcharge even while the spa is under warranty. Some even charge 50-75 dollars for a service call under warranty. Some also said that they had to just start charging this after the gas and oil prices went up, which led to upset customers like Boscoe.

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1201537954

This is a normal occurrence with most spa companies and spa warranties. Every warranty reads that the dealer can charge the customer a fee to come out and service the spa. It is up to the dealer to decide if they want to charge that or not. Some dealers like myself and Term do not charge under warranty, but that again is up to the dealer.  

Also Bosco, you said that you were upset that the dealer tried to diagnose the problem over the phone. I found another thread where six dealers on this forum said every time they get a call, they try to solve the problem over the phone. I feel that it is good customer service to try and figure out over the phone what the problem is so when the service crew does go out they are equipped with the right parts to fix the problem.

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1212277202

Glad to hear that you got all fixed up Boscoe. Sounds like the service tech did a great job!!



Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 22, 2008, 11:58:17 am
What a long thread! If the problem is under warranty then no trip charge. If problem is not under warranty then trip charge. There is plenty of markup for both the dealer and the manufacturer to pay for the trip expenses. The rest is just pure boloney IMHO. I've never seen such an attitude towards warranties as a have in this industry. If I didn't love my tub so much I would never buy one knowing that there is such a manufacturer / dealer attitude towards supporting what they sell. This post should be good for another 12 pages of discussion.   ::)

Scott  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: hottubdan on August 22, 2008, 12:10:39 pm
We have satisfied countless customers by trouble shooting on the phone and resolving NON-WARRANTY issues.  No charge.  Spa fixed now.  Saved us money and time.  Saved customer time and money.  

Seems to me to be win/win.

I'm not trying to stir the pot.

Just defining what is warranty and what is customer service.

Warranty is the legal obligation of the manufacturer as performed by the dealer.

Customer service harder to define.  I know that we always strive to get better.  I know that we cannot satisfy all the people all the time.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 22, 2008, 01:31:28 pm
Quote From Fire Marshall Bill
"This is a normal occurrence with most spa companies and spa warranties. Every warranty reads that the dealer can charge the customer a fee to come out and service the spa. It is up to the dealer to decide if they want to charge that or not. Some dealers like myself and Term do not charge under warranty, but that again is up to the dealer."

Bravo Swell-Tub. Well Said.

This is why I have not purchased a spa yet. Too many if's ands and buts.

Also the quote above too me, tells me to watch out  mister or misses consumer that the discount you received up front will cost you more down the road when you need warranty work. I am not a Dentist where I feel that I have to pull teeth to get to the truth, Nor will all consumers will ask the right questions all the time, so if they don't asked then it's buyer beware.

It is sad when you can get a $1500.00-$2000.00 refrigerator under warranty repaired at no charge what so ever, but spend $10,000.00-$12,500.00 on a spa and in the fine print a dealer can charge gas surcharge or trip charge.
And not only that it cost $100.00 a hour for repairs. I know of many specialized crafsman with tens of thousands of dollars in tools that don't charge a $100.00 a hour more like $60.00-70.00. Hell I know a lot of plumbers that are under $100.00 an hour on weekend rates with a truck loaded with parts.

I am all for someone making a fair profit, but the spa industry from what I have seen and read is quit greedy. The saying that most brand name dealers keep stating is "  you get  what you pay for" does not apply here. Some dealers don't even have a gun and mask while trying to hold me up. If I am going to get screwed I at least want a kiss afterwards. Boys stop trying to make a home run on every deal. Money is getting tight for everyone.

The only way this industry is going to get cleaned up all starts with the dealers. Be honest and up front with the customers about any and all charges, and put everything in writing. Sure their is going to be a small amount of customers that will never be happy no matter how hard you try to please them, but at the end of the day you can say that you did your very best.





Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 22, 2008, 01:48:27 pm
Unfortunately pool and spa people hit singles more often than home runs when we make deals.  I gotta work on that warning track power.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tailhooker on August 22, 2008, 02:57:10 pm
Quote
What a long thread! If the problem is under warranty then no trip charge. If problem is not under warranty then trip charge. There is plenty of markup for both the dealer and the manufacturer to pay for the trip expenses. The rest is just pure boloney IMHO. I've never seen such an attitude towards warranties as a have in this industry. If I didn't love my tub so much I would never buy one knowing that there is such a manufacturer / dealer attitude towards supporting what they sell. This post should be good for another 12 pages of discussion.   ::)

Scott  8-)
Scott, I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: bosco0633 on August 22, 2008, 04:40:50 pm
good customer service and warranty should be one in the same.  A good warranty should be provided by the company and a service department, should not be looking to cash in on little extra things here and there.  I agree that my regular maitenance is not under warranty for my car, but it sure is nice when they do those extras for me for free when I go to the dealer.

As for my tub, I am not an electrical expert! My kids are to important to me to mess with water and electricity!  Now if a customer service person cant tell me what an error code is, how am I suppose to trust them with walking me through a procedure with a cabinet filled with wires and water????

Is my death covered under a good lawsuit down the road??

This is the age old debate that I see here, and consumers and dealers on one forum is very difficult.  I look at it in my job, I work hard at arresting bad people, while scum bag lawyers work hard at keeping them out of jail.  

I will agree that I will never agree with a dealer on this issue.  I see it like this.  I want to save money, you all want to make money.  I just dont like when the dealer gets thier cake and eat it to, they make good money on a sale, and they make even better money when sh#t goes bad.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: wmccall on August 22, 2008, 04:51:37 pm
Approaching dead horse status.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 22, 2008, 04:59:07 pm
I worked with three dealers at the end. One dealer said all trips, warranty or not would require a trip charge, didn't buy that tub but I really liked the product. Next dealer offered free trip charges for first 5 years, but tub was marked up an additional 3K, didn't buy that tub either. The Jacuzzi dealer offered free trip charges for the first year. Told me most major warranty issues would most likely happen in the first 90 days. Now I have had the tub since May, and knock on wood, I have not had a single issue. So as I approach the 90 day mark I feel good about my dealer and the product. I am still miffed as to why a warranty call would require a trip charge 4 years from now however.

Scott  ::)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 22, 2008, 05:00:35 pm
Quote
Approaching dead horse status.
I don't know It seems to be the best ride in town. Wait maybe the warranty on this thread is over.  ;D
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 22, 2008, 05:09:08 pm
Quote

I will agree that I will never agree with a dealer on this issue.  I see it like this.  I want to save money, you all want to make money.  I just dont like when the dealer gets thier cake and eat it to, they make good money on a sale, and they make even better money when sh#t goes bad.  

Ask any other dealer on here if you would like, but we as dealers don’t make money on warranty service calls. Even the dealers that charge gas surcharges are not making money on warranty claims. Now after a warranty is up, and a part goes bad, then sure, we make a little money, but not warranty claims.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 22, 2008, 05:12:31 pm
Quote

Ask any other dealer on here if you would like, but we as dealers don’t make money on warranty service calls. Even the dealers that charge gas surcharges are not making money on warranty claims. Now after a warranty is up, and a part goes bad, then sure, we make a little money, but not warranty claims.
So do you mean that when you do a warranty call on the product you sell, you are not payed for parts and labor to repair them by the manufacturer?

Scott  :o
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on August 22, 2008, 05:28:31 pm
  Fact is a dealer can charge what he wants for the product,he can charge for delivery if he wants (some actually do this)   And yes he can charge for a trip charge to do warranty.    He can even follow the warranty to the absolute letter which most I believe do not.

  Either way the manufacturer has very little control over this from what I have seen, I could be wrong?

 It really is once again up to the dealer and his crew, on how they treat their customers not the Manufacturer!! For the most part anyway!!

 Just today I had a guy in that bought a spa from a gentleman I sold an Artesian Merlin to about 5 years ago the guy was moving.   Anyway he stopped by the store while I was at the fair and we were closed, he needed a jet.   Well he came in today with the jet that I didn't have, I told him I would order it for him and mail it direct when it came in, he went to pay I told don't worry about it since he had made the 25 mile trip to the store twice.   Did I do the right thing?  The owner of the company might not think so but for how many of these I get its worth the 8 bucks the jet cost to take care of this guy, even though its out of warranty and he's a 2nd time buyer.
  In his eyes it was above and beyond what he thought I would do.   So I ask you this, where do you think this guy will buy his second spa from when ready??  ;)


  Bosco where do you think you will buy your second spa from when the time comes if it does???  Not saying you wouldn't buy another Arctic, but doubtful you will buy from the same dealer??
 It truly is the dealer that controls your experience!

FWIW we get paid quite well by Jacuzzi not rich paid but it covers us!
    
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 22, 2008, 05:28:35 pm
I know a dealer that has never made any money on anything he sells or service. He also lives in a million $ house, has jet skies, 38' cruiser, drives a S550 has a hog. But he has never made any money. :'(
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 22, 2008, 05:33:40 pm
Quote
So do you mean that when you do a warranty call on the product you sell, you are not payed for parts and labor to repair them by the manufacturer?

Scott  :o

I thought I would share a quote from the great Doc himself He seems to be well respected on this forum, so maybe people will believe him. Hope you dont mind me quoting you Doc. This is from the other thread that I linked about two pages ago, and hope this answers your question Scott.

Quote

AS has been said before , the manufacturers are paying less and less for warranty work. Some as little as $20 a call. $20 doesn't cover the cost of putting the key in the truck and starting it, much less the drive to and from the customers house and the time to do the job. A dealer HAS to cover their costs of doing the warranty work.......... or they WILL go out of business. I have yet to meet a dealer that is willing to, much less afford to, cover the cost of doing warranty work out of their own pocket.

The cost of a spa has become so competitive, that if you add in the cost of doing warranty work to the initial price of the spa (as was done years ago), you now are no longer competitive with joe-blow spas down the street who isn't adding in the cost. Yes, some people will catch that the lesser priced spa requires a co-pay for warranty work, but honestly, most people will only look at the initial price of the spa.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 22, 2008, 05:36:30 pm
Quote
I know a dealer that has never made any money on anything he sells or service. He also lives in a million $ house, has jet skies, 38' cruiser, drives a S550 has a hog. But he has never made any money. :'(


From a consumer stand point, we had better hope that the people that we buy from are making some money, because if they arent, they wont be around at all to service warranty calls, or to buy any chemicals or accesories as far as that goes.

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 22, 2008, 05:40:34 pm
I never said we dont make money, we just dont hit "home runs" like some people like to imply.  Hence the phrase "hit singles".
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 22, 2008, 05:51:14 pm
Quote
I never said we dont make money, we just dont hit "home runs" like some people like to imply.  Hence the phrase "hit singles".

I call charging $100.00 and up an hour + a trip charge making money. Thats a home run!!!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 22, 2008, 05:51:28 pm
Quote

I call charging $100.00 and up an hour + a trip charge making money. Thats a home run!!!

There is a big difference between warranty and non-warranty work. Dealers don't get anywhere near $100/hr for warranty work.


Quote
So do you mean that when you do a warranty call on the product you sell, you are not payed for parts and labor to repair them by the manufacturer?

Scott  :o

The dealer is sent the parts they need for the repair (obviously they'll stock standard parts, use them as needed and the just replace it later when the manufacturer sends the replacement). They are also given a fee for the warranty work from the manufacturer but that rate is certainly not near the rate the dealer charges customers for non warranty work. People often assume the dealer makes a good amount of $ on warranty work but when you factor in labor costs, owning the truck, gas, insurance ... its pretty much a wash to do warranty work..

When it’s out of warranty they’ll charge the owner directly and it’ll be more than they get from the manufacturer for warranty work so then they obviously make a decent profit. Even though they’re obligated to provide the warranty service good dealers make sure they provide good warranty service after the sale because they also know if they do you’ll be more apt to call them later on down the line.

There are multiple advantages to buying from a long time dealer and in some ways this is one of them. They may have a lot of spas in the field over the years and may have built up a strong clientele (and reputation) with plenty of non warranty work so they may be less apt to feel a need for a trip charge on warranty work.


Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 22, 2008, 05:58:39 pm
well said spatech, once again spot on.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 22, 2008, 06:00:43 pm
Quote

I call charging $100.00 and up an hour + a trip charge making money. Thats a home run!!!


selling mercedes for a living would equal home runs
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 22, 2008, 06:11:26 pm
OK So trip fees charges to the customer and doing warranty work.  Lets say average trip fee is $35.00 per. if you do 8 warranty calls a day 8x 35.00=$280.00 a day. I'd say that more then covers fuel, ins, & Tec. for that day.
This is much better then having everyone setting around costing money waiing for the phone too ring.

Please if it wasn't profitable why do it.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 22, 2008, 06:15:08 pm
What about the dealers like myself that dont charge trip fees??

Maybe I need to start charging trip fees after seeing those figures!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 22, 2008, 06:23:44 pm
Quote
OK So trip fees charges to the customer and doing warranty work.  Lets say average trip fee is $35.00 per. if you do 8 warranty calls a day 8x 35.00=$280.00 a day. I'd say that more then covers fuel, ins, & Tec. for that day.
This is much better then having everyone setting around costing money waiing for the phone too ring.

Please if it wasn't profitable why do it.

My service tech alone without gas, insurance, trucks, tools, costs me $175 a day.  To get that figure you have to figure hourly wage, benefits, and payroll taxes.  Trust me Too Tense, money is NOT made on warranty. That also doesnt figure in that at times he needs a second hand.  Dealers are charging trip fees for a reason, times are tough with fuel expenses, and labor expenses.  Its not as easy as hitting home runs.  I dont currently charge trip expenses, but hey if gas tops $5/gallon, I may have to rethink that theory.  Plus factor in that the Internet takes away lots of chemical and accessory sales that used to be a given.  Just like any business, owners have to be creative to make money.  Making peanuts dont always make up for all the headaches that business owners go home with everynight.    Great customer service is awesome, and we always strive for that, and hopefully we can always give that.  You have to factor in that gas has dang near doubled in the past year.  That means that fuel expenses for all these companies that travel to houses have doubled.  That means its that much harder to bring home a profit.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: starsky on August 22, 2008, 08:50:55 pm
As far as warranty stuff goes here is my 2 cents.

With a purchase of a hot tub, I believe the average person feels, based on decency and reasonableness that buying a 8,000 to 15,000 dollar brand new hot tub, they should be able to expect a few things.  Warranty issues will be fixed without hassle.

They should be able to expect that within a reasonable amount of time, the spa should work as designed, and described and promoted by the company to work.

They should be able to expect that if the spa doesnt work according to its design, or malfunctions, it should not cost the customer a dime to get the spa back into working order.

A new spa should not develop "union" issues, or any issues for that matter that should fall on the owners to fix or troubleshoot until the warrant expires.  

And to pay someone a trip charge to perform warranty work on said 10,000 dollar spa? You gotta be kidding..

Whos' with me!?



Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: D.P. Roberts on August 22, 2008, 11:48:12 pm
Quote
OK So trip fees charges to the customer and doing warranty work.  Lets say average trip fee is $35.00 per. if you do 8 warranty calls a day 8x 35.00=$280.00 a day. I'd say that more then covers fuel, ins, & Tec. for that day.
This is much better then having everyone setting around costing money waiing for the phone too ring.

Please if it wasn't profitable why do it.


I'm in a completely unrelated business, which employs many part-time people at barely more than minimum wage. We have a formula we use to figure these things out, called SPH, or Sales Per Hour. When you add up the employee's salary, employee benefits, insurance, rent, utilities, product & its markup, shrink, etc., etc., we need to make about $75 per hour - or roughly ten times what our employees are actually earning per hour.

 Granted, there's a profit margin built into that too. However, most of those profits go to our stockholders, & the majority of our stockholders are never going to buy a yacht off of our stock's dividends.

So, I really don't begrudge techs their hourly charges. Figuring out how much to charge per hour isn't about adding a certain amount to the employee's wages - it's a matter of multiplying it several times.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Tailhooker on August 23, 2008, 12:48:49 am
Quote
As far as warranty stuff goes here is my 2 cents.

With a purchase of a hot tub, I believe the average person feels, based on decency and reasonableness that buying a 8,000 to 15,000 dollar brand new hot tub, they should be able to expect a few things.  Warranty issues will be fixed without hassle.

They should be able to expect that within a reasonable amount of time, the spa should work as designed, and described and promoted by the company to work.

They should be able to expect that if the spa doesnt work according to its design, or malfunctions, it should not cost the customer a dime to get the spa back into working order.

A new spa should not develop "union" issues, or any issues for that matter that should fall on the owners to fix or troubleshoot until the warrant expires.  

And to pay someone a trip charge to perform warranty work on said 10,000 dollar spa? You gotta be kidding..

Whos' with me!?



Well said!! :)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 23, 2008, 01:36:07 am
So to help this thread to the 24 page record level.

I took my Toyota Avalon in for some warranty work. It needed a belt tensioner and a new joint in the steering column. The cost to Toyota was $1300.00 for the labor and parts. I talked to the service writer and they love warranty work and make a good profit on it. So using that as an example I can't figure out why you spa dealers don't work out a better arrangement with your manufacturers. It would be an incentive for the manufacturers to do a better quality check before the tub leaves the factory floor.

Inquiring minds want to know...

Scott  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 23, 2008, 01:48:49 am
What I like about this dead horse thread is that the buyers want the large ticket item supported like the cheap TV they bought at Best Buy. The dealers want to do the right thing and make the customers happy but the manufacturer won't support the dealers to the level that makes customer service profitable for them. So the manufacturers will next say that they need to raise the price of a tub to 20K so they can pay for their factory mistakes in the field. This whole thread tells me that the problem is the manufacturers not standing behind what they produce or the dealers who sell them.

I have a great deal of respect for many of the hard working dealers on this site but I'm less than impressed with the level of support for the warranties from the manufacturers. I had a guy come out last week and tweak the sound on my 9 month old 52" flat screen. It didn't cost me a penny and the TV didn't cost 12K either.

Scott  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 23, 2008, 07:54:15 am
Scott

Most manufactures use a formula that works very well for there dealers, and if the dealers follows this formula they will stay in the black. In most industries like the spa industry they used what is called number+10. Nunber is the profit, 10 is the shipping cost. This allows the dealer to sell and service and make a profit on each unit they sell. If the dealer chooses to discount  more than the recommend manufactures guide lines, then yes it will affect there bottom line. So most not all spa manufactures have built in to the cost of their spas a profit margin for there dealers. Sure their will be that one spa that will require more service then the rest, lets say 1 in every 100 spas soild. This is why the manufacture only pays a flat warranty repair rate. Its all numbers.  So the Arctic Dealers that are saying on this thread that they make a little profit on each sale are full of.... If you go into 3 different Arctic stores they are all using the same retail price sheet. They also say the same thing don't let these prices scare you the price is......... most will be within $100.00 of each other. Now if there prices are  over inflated on there retail price sheet to begin with and they discount the same percentage points +/-$100.00 then you must ask yourself are they really offering a discount or is this their every day price. I have not experience this pricing game on other upper end brand name spa retailers, only seen this on the cheaper low end spas.


Now as for the other non Arctic dealers on this forum Great Job on helping the public whether it is your brand or the competitors answering simple to complex questions without taking jabs at  us. Thanks

Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Water Boy on August 23, 2008, 09:07:09 am
You might take your time, and go slow, and re-read the post. Not one Arctic dealer said they dont make money on a spa sale. That was never said. If it was, please point that out to me.

What was said, and backed up by non Arctic guys, is that dealers don't make profits on warranty calls. Please dont twist the words Too Tense! Thanks!

Since your such an expert in the spa business, maybe you should just start a spa store of your own, and then you can buy that spa and see how much money you make on it!
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 23, 2008, 09:42:55 am
GEE!!!!!!!! Did I hit a nerve.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 23, 2008, 09:51:53 am
Well I've only had my spa 3 months so I'm no expert. Some people buy a new car every 3-5 years. You buy a TV and other electronic gear every 5+ years. I'm guessing people don't replace their spa very often, mostly because of expense and how hard it might be to unload the old one. That said when dealers take care of their customers they do it because it is the right thing to do and word of mouth will bring additional sales. If warranty work isn't as profitable as non-warranty work my guess is they make up the difference with additional sales. It is kind of like money spent on marketing. Radio and newspaper advertising are great but a great reputation and happy customers was always the best kind of marketing for me. I have owned 7 businesses and I have no desire to be self employed any longer. It was very hard work.

BTW one of the busiest spa dealers in my area buys and picks up old spas as a trade-in. He doesn't give a lot for the used ones but he also sells a lot of used ones to first time buyers. Maybe he makes good money on servicing the older ones. He also gets people hooked with a used one and then gets them back for the new one.

Scott  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 23, 2008, 11:15:50 am
Your correct Swell-tub, many hot tub owners trade in spas after five, six, seven years of use.  We do trade ins all the time and refurbish the used ones that we receive and resell.  That can be a profitable way of doing business.  And your correct if you take care of the customers well after the sale they will give future business later on.  This has been one of the biggest reasons that during some rough times here in the spa industry we continue to increase our overall sale!  Hitting home runs every day!!! ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: East_TX_Spa on August 23, 2008, 11:38:46 am
We take all brands of spas in on trade.  If it is a Watkins spa, we clean them up and resell them.  If it is some other brand, even if it is a brand new spa, it goes to the dump.  Actually, we quit putting them in the dump and we just leave them behind our warehouse and they're gone the next day.

Terminator
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 23, 2008, 12:07:59 pm
Quote
Unfortunately pool and spa people hit singles more often than home runs when we make deals.  I gotta work on that warning track power.

This is saying that you are not making much money
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Too Tense on August 23, 2008, 12:09:21 pm
Quote

Ask any other dealer on here if you would like, but we as dealers don’t make money on warranty service calls. Even the dealers that charge gas surcharges are not making money on warranty claims. Now after a warranty is up, and a part goes bad, then sure, we make a little money, but not warranty claims.

Make a little money after warranty runs out.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 23, 2008, 12:25:45 pm
Quote

This is saying that you are not making much money


I guess if we all raked it in like many think, I wonder why their isnt spa dealers at every corner like car lots?  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Cdn HockeyPuck on August 24, 2008, 08:17:28 am
Quote


I guess if we all raked it in like many think, I wonder why their isnt spa dealers at every corner like car lots?  

In Canada there wouldn't be any room, those are usually occupied by Tim Horton's coffee shops!  :D

The point I think a lot of consumers are making is we dont' want to get nickel and dimed for warranty items. Sure it's only a couple of ball park hot dogs that someone pointed out but what if you have 5 plus claims in a year? Now you're up to $100?! I don't think so! That consumer will never buy a spa from that dealer again or refer any friends to them. I know I wouldn't.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 24, 2008, 04:27:42 pm
Quote
I took my Toyota Avalon in for some warranty work.  I talked to the service writer and they love warranty work and make a good profit on it.

Scott  8-)

If your spa dealer charges a trip fee for warranty work I'll bet they'd be willing to waive it if you saved them a trip and brought your spa in for service.  ;D ;)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 24, 2008, 05:30:11 pm
Quote

If your spa dealer charges a trip fee for warranty work I'll bet they'd be willing to waive it if you saved them a trip and brought your spa in for service.  ;D ;)
They always give me a new Toyota loaner car while they work on my car. I don't think my spa dealer would give me a loaner tub. If I don't take the free loaner car they will drive me across town to work and pick me up with the courtesy van. Oh BTW with no trip charge.

Then there is the example of my 52" flat screen. It had low sound. Technician drove to my house and did a minor adjustment and no charge and no trip fee. The TV only cost me $2300 nine months earlier. Who payed for his salary, gas, truck and tools. They have been in business for a very long time and seem to make a profit.

This discussion between customers and dealers is not doing much good for future possible tub owners. I can only imagine if I was thinking about buying my first tub and I was following this thread. I might think twice before I bought something the price of a small car only to hear that dealers or service providers are hurting so bad they need to charge a trip charge for warranty work. Again I have a great deal of respect for the dealers on this site who provide great customer service and help customers over the phone.

Scott  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Summitman on August 24, 2008, 10:08:02 pm
I understand where you are coming from Scott, and I agree that when possible great customer service goes a very long ways.  I operate my spa dealership the way you describe your tv warranty and toyota dealership.  It goes a long ways for future purchases.  The problem is, is each business is built differently with many different variables.  I can see since I do own a pool and spa business how it could be possible that you would have to charge trip charges.  Does that mean that I disagree with the consumers that trip charges suck and are a bad way to build costumer relations?  No I totally agree with you guys and thats why I do everything I can to not charge consumers or treat them in a manner that you have been treated from your Toyota dealership or you TV man.  

I definetely didnt want the thread to turn out the way it has, but I do disagree with the notion that dealers are making huge profits when they sell spas.  That couldnt be further from the truth.  Anyways Im pretty much beating a dead horse at this point, but I wanted to reiterate that I agree that great customer service is the most important part, and my business thrives off of it.  Trip charges suck, but they are what they are and every business has the right to charge em.  It will affect them one or another.  
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Swell-Tub on August 24, 2008, 11:01:55 pm
goarctic that is why you are a successful spa dealer along with many others on this form. Like I said earlier I have owned 7 different businesses during my life. Some were successful and some were not. I know what it is like to worry about payrolls and operating expenses. I also know it is easier to keep a customer than find a new one. I also know word of mouth is the best type of advertisement. With that all said let's put this dead horse to bed with this statement:

We can agree to disagree.

We all know that the customer and the dealer might have different ideas about trip charges. I'm not enjoying paying for my pillows, blankets, and soda pops when I fly either, but it seems to be a sign of the times. I also know that my dealer and I talked about trip charges before I bought my Jacuzzi and we both agreed on free trip charges for the first year. Buying a spa and even having to talk about trip charges is new territory for me and I guess I will adjust or not buy a spa in the future.

One last comment about this thread.
I really, really appreciate it when people on this forum don't make it personal! Let's talk about things without attacking each other.

Thank you for allowing me to stand on my soap box without knocking me off it.

Scott  8-)
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: drewstar on August 25, 2008, 08:40:17 am
It's not as complicated as some folks make it out to be. It's not rocket science.

Build a quality tub and back it up with quality dealers and don't nickle and dime them on the warrenty.

Problems do occur but how they are handled is the real proof.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, every dealer looks like a hero when there are no problems.  It's when there are problems that's it's pretty easyto seperate the true quality players. from the rest.

It's just that simple.
Title: Re: It finally happened!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: spaman-- on August 26, 2008, 02:14:24 pm
Quote
OK So trip fees charges to the customer and doing warranty work.  Lets say average trip fee is $35.00 per. if you do 8 warranty calls a day 8x 35.00=$280.00 a day. I'd say that more then covers fuel, ins, & Tec. for that day.
This is much better then having everyone setting around costing money waiing for the phone too ring.

Please if it wasn't profitable why do it.

No way service techs do 8 calls a day! Especially in an area like ours where it is rural and calls are wide spread. I have crunched the numbers and the TRUE cost of having a truck (must include depreciation of said truck) Insurance on the truck and figure monthly maintenance. Plus we have to add workmans comp insurance, taxes and the wage of the service tech. THE COST IS $69 per hour. Our trip fee is $25. There is not a dealer in this business who actually makes a profit at the end of the year by doing warranty work. The average warranty service call only brings $55 from the manufacturer.

Do the actual math cut your numbers half and get real.

We do the service because we sell the products and must service what we sell. In the end we are all in hopes of pulling a profit in the seling of the "razor blades" I.E chemicals, lifters, covers and extras.

It irritates me that people sit back and think the cost of doing business is so cheap then in ignorance they spout out numbers that are sooo far off. Please before spouting learn the facts. ::)