Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Thisismyname on July 16, 2017, 09:49:51 am
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I sold my 2006ish Caldera Tahitian with our house and in the market for a new tub.
We haven't tested any but so far like the Caldera Cantabria and the bullfrog A8L.
Bring quoted $14,500 for Cantabria and $10k for the bullfrog. Both are floor models and include the usual cover, lift, delivery etc.
Thoughts on these 2 models and prices? Anything else out there I should consider or not consider?
I paid like $5500 for my Tahitian so these prices are a bit of a shock to me.
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Both top of the line hot tubs now. Prices are great. $10k for a BF A8L is insane. Are you sure the sales person is quoting you the right hot tub?
Looking purely at just the money, the A8L is the better deal because they are giving it away.
The Cantabria (or all Utopia for that matter) went significantly up in price with their latest redesign, which looks fantastic now!
I personally love both models. The Cantabria feels significantly bigger. I like the A8L, but I find the A7L or A7 to be a better fit (more diverse jets in the 7 vs the 8 IMO.
Consider the dealer, look at reviews, service. Dry fit or wet test if you can, see what feels best! Good luck!
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Isnt the A8 just a bigger A7 with an extra jet pack? How does an A7 have more diverse jets?
It's a floor model A8L with no radio, circ pump or ozone. He said I can order a new one any color same options for $10,800
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I just sold my 2004 tahitian. Great price on Bullfrog my dealer was at 15k. Caldera seems priced like new. I bought a Marquis Vector 21 V94l. 7500 with cover lifter and inline ease system no ozone (mine never worked well in my Tahitian). Tub is very good compared to the Tahitian and was much less the other options. Good luck
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test them out, see what happens, make sure the dealer is competent and go with whichever feels the best during a wet test and fits your budget
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10K for a A8L would be fitting my budget. ;)
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So it sounds like the A8L is a great deal....but how about the Cantabria? Is it $14k what people are really paying for this?
Is it worth $4k more?
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So it sounds like the A8L is a great deal....but how about the Cantabria? Is it $14k what people are really paying for this?
Is it worth $4k more?
Yes. I am typically a bit more on that tub but do have one I'm trying to get rid of so it's priced at $12,900
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So it sounds like the A8L is a great deal....but how about the Cantabria? Is it $14k what people are really paying for this?
Is it worth $4k more?
Yes. I am typically a bit more on that tub but do have one I'm trying to get rid of so it's priced at $12,900
Worth has nothing to do with anything, it's what the dealer has to make to stay in business. Any high end spa is worth just as much as anyone else's. You say a Cantabria should be 4000 more then a Bullfrog? What's that make a HS Grande 18,000? I don't think so.
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Asking if ... not saying it is. I don't think these tubs are "worth" as much as a small car but that's a different topic.
I'm asking what a good or typical price is on a Cantabria....I can put a small inground pool in for about $20k so a tub for 14 to me seems way overpriced.
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You should wet test both. If you feel the Cantabria is worth 4 more grand then the Bullfrog, then it is. Honestly spa for spa, pound for pound, wet test or not, 4 grand is 4 grand. That's 3 house payments for me. Is the Cantabria worth that, for me no way in hell, for you maybe so. In the end it's your money and your choice to decide.
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Dbl post.
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Asking if ... not saying it is. I don't think these tubs are "worth" as much as a small car but that's a different topic.
I'm asking what a good or typical price is on a Cantabria....I can put a small inground pool in for about $20k so a tub for 14 to me seems way overpriced.
20k for a pool? As a former vinyl lined pool builder I'll tell you good luck with that...and also I write invoices all day long for 14-17k for spas + accessories..this is what a premium spa sells for. If you think it's overpriced look for something for 7k..a premium top of the line spa doesn't fit everyone's budget
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Got quotes for small pools in the low 20s.
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Got quotes for small pools in the low 20s.
That is incredibly cheap unless your idea of a pool is a 8' x 12' :-)....those quotes included the concrete apron around the pool, landscaping, and repairing the yard after machinery has been through + the entire pool + pool equipment? If so build a pool because they are doing it for no profit at that point.
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That is a ridiculous price for an A8L. I wouldn't even sell an A7L for that price to be honest. If you like that one and feel comfortable with the dealer, I'd say jump on it.
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I sold my 2006ish Caldera Tahitian with our house and in the market for a new tub.
We haven't tested any but so far like the Caldera Cantabria and the bullfrog A8L.
Bring quoted $14,500 for Cantabria and $10k for the bullfrog. Both are floor models and include the usual cover, lift, delivery etc.
Thoughts on these 2 models and prices? Anything else out there I should consider or not consider?
I paid like $5500 for my Tahitian so these prices are a bit of a shock to me.
I was quoted a cantabria for under 13.
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I was quoted a cantabria for under 13.
What area are you in?
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What tub do you like better?
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What tub do you like better?
Like the size a features of the Cantabria....havent tested the bullfrog yet.
I prices were equal for me it would be a no brainer with the cantabria, but once we test the A8L maybe that will give us the answer
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MISTAKE
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Isnt the A8 just a bigger A7 with an extra jet pack? How does an A7 have more diverse jets?
It's a floor model A8L with no radio, circ pump or ozone. He said I can order a new one any color same options for $10,800
The A8 is literally a bigger version of an A7. However, you don't get to choose an extra jet pak, it gets chosen for you, which is the cascadia fountain jet pak.
I've noticed in my test soaks that the A7 have a greater variety of depths and stationary jetting than the A8. The A8 IMO is great if you entertain a lot, but if you don't the A7 is better. Again, that is my opinion.
As everyone has said, ridiculously low price on the Bullfrog. Makes me question how reliable the dealer is. Everyone around me that undercut me is now out of business. However, if you are good with the dealer, I'd be very tempted to go that direction. The cantabria price is more in line with what you see out there. It is an awesome huge hot tub that looks amazing to boot. We are more on that tub unless it's on clearance.
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The bullfrog dealer is a pool store ...I think that is their main business. They build a lot of pools in my area and seem to have a good rep. Not sure why they are so "cheap" on the tubs...but they said that's the price
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If you like the spa, and are confident in the dealer, going in... know you are getting an awesome price.
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Tested a BF today...I think it's an R7L they have set up. We loved the pressure and the jet options but felt we couldnt sit down anywhere in the tub. No matter which seat we were in we floated around too much and there is nothing to hold onto or balance against to stay in place. Really wanted to like bullfrog but I just dont see it working.
Next went to test a D1...they had a amore bay setup. wanted to test lotus bay and chairman but they were both dry. Liked the seating a lot in the amore bay but the jets seemed to lack a bit. They do have a floor model Chairman, i think its a 2015 never used, but the shell is black. They are trying to push that out the door for 9,500 everything included. Not sure if that's a great value for 2 year old never used tub without any upgrade in a color we dont really want.
Want to try the Caldera cantabria still but i think it's too big for the space we are thinking about putting it. Maybe a Geneva? Had a Tahitian for about 15 years and had quite a few issues with it.
Maybe HS...looking at the Aria or Envoy.
Decisions-
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Tested HS Grandee and a caldera cantabria today.
These 2 are definitely the front-runners now...
Want to try out a envoy... hopefully it's filled and ready to test later this week.
Grandee has a really good size and layout. We both loved the Moto massage system and this tub was equipped with the salt system. Water felt really nice, skin felt great after.
Cantabria was awesome too. Super powerful and large tub. Lots of foot jets on the floor and the dedicated power lounger was really nice.
Looks like the bullfrog and d1 are out of the picture now.
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Any comments or advice? We can't make up our minds.
Need to work on firm pricing on all options... Right now I feel they are mostly very high
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Any comments or advice? We can't make up our minds.
Need to work on firm pricing on all options... Right now I feel they are mostly very high
I'm not sure we know what to comment on because you seem to be handling things fine. You'll see a lot of recommendations centered around wet testing multiple well respected brands/models and that's exactly what you're doing and how you've gotten down to just a few front runners from the longer list you started with. Now its about seeing what kind of deals you can make and maybe that will tell you which to buy in the end because otherwise you'll have to decide which wins the tiebreaker if you're torn.
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Are there any Marquis or Artesian dealers near you I found those to have nice options in the 7 or 8 ft size without breaking the bank. I looked at tubs you are looking at and ended up with the Marquis Vector 21 94L for 8k after tax. Couldn't be happier with it at this time.
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Are there any Marquis or Artesian dealers near you I found those to have nice options in the 7 or 8 ft size without breaking the bank. I looked at tubs you are looking at and ended up with the Marquis Vector 21 94L for 8k after tax. Couldn't be happier with it at this time.
Forgot about the Marquis dealer....gonna test them out tomorrow. Sounds like the Vector line is similar to a Bullfrog....we shall see
Thanks!
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Are there any Marquis or Artesian dealers near you I found those to have nice options in the 7 or 8 ft size without breaking the bank. I looked at tubs you are looking at and ended up with the Marquis Vector 21 94L for 8k after tax. Couldn't be happier with it at this time.
Forgot about the Marquis dealer....gonna test them out tomorrow. Sounds like the Vector line is similar to a Bullfrog....we shall see
Thanks!
Vector compares very well to the X-Series, same/similar warranty, similar jet counts, 3-4 varieties of jets, same price points. It's good to see you are wet testing multiple models to narrow it down
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My friend has an R8 I went in his and liked it but bullfrog dealer by me wanted 13500 for one so it was a non starter . I found the therapy very close so with the price difference between the 2 the Marquis was a better choice.
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Went today to test a marquis Epic and went back to Hot Springs to test the envoy. Ended up retesting the Grandee because we did not like the lounger in the envoy it was too big. The Epic was very poor in our opinion there was no redeeming qualities that we could find from the Jets to the seats it just didn't do anything for us.
I think we are torn between a grandee or a cantabria but we are not getting much cooperation on price. We are being folded in the 15,000 range for both which seems to be very high. Not sure there is a value of 15000 versus a $9000 Dimension One chairman or in A8 bullfrog for around 9500
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Went today to test a marquis Epic and went back to Hot Springs to test the envoy. Ended up retesting the Grandee because we did not like the lounger in the envoy it was too big. The Epic was very poor in our opinion there was no redeeming qualities that we could find from the Jets to the seats it just didn't do anything for us.
I think we are torn between a grandee or a cantabria but we are not getting much cooperation on price. We are being folded in the 15,000 range for both which seems to be very high. Not sure there is a value of 15000 versus a $9000 Dimension One chairman or in A8 bullfrog for around 9500
If you like either Hot Spring model the best I would pick one and shoot them an offer of what you think is fair, worst that can happen is they say no. From there it's either counter-offer and come together on a price, or move on to another tub...The D1 & Bullfrog are 'giveaway prices' so the Hot Spring models are at a pretty big disadvantage in this specific scenario because based on price and just looking at it on paper they are both going to be considered a much better value imho, of course you still have to wet test and like the seating/jets/lights/etc. of 1 of those models. Good Luck!
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We wet tested all of them. The Bullfrog is their normal price...the d1 is a floor model they want to get rid of.
Will try the offer route but I don't think they'll budge...ive thrown out a few numbers to both already.
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The bullfrog dealer by me wanted 14500 for an A8 I think tyhats a rock bottom price
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He said he can order an a8 brand new for 10.3k delivered with the usual goodies
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If your getting a A8 for 10.3 plus tax? It is a stupid good deal. The prices people are posting lately for Bullfrogs are crazy these days.
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It's 10.3k delivered plus a rebate of $800 I think he said. So 9.5k delivered with cover, lift, etc.
We tested the R7L or R8L and didn't care for the seating.
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So why take the time or post the price on a A8L it's the same spa as a R8L fit wise. An 800 rebate, an even stupider price.
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Well 9.5k vs 15.5k. Maybe it's not a 6k difference in seating!
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Pretty much my thoughts. Sometimes it is about price, though some here would argue that. Most people in the long term really would be happy in time with what ever they bought.
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That price for an A8 is just stupid. I'm not sure how he could stay in business selling for that. There's got to be a catch?
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Talked to 2 dealers about bullfrog in my area...they are both about the same price for an A8. Not sure why....but I don't think we like it enough.
Current options are a Cantabria for 14k or a Grandee for about 12k without ACE salt. Both before tax but include cover, lift, steps, breaker, chemicals delivery etc.
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Good price on the grandee
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That price for an A8 is just stupid. I'm not sure how he could stay in business selling for that. There's got to be a catch?
Perhaps because there are two BF dealers in his area.
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Well we tested the Bullfrog A8 without the lounger and we may have found a winner. Way different than the a8L due to the foot massage dome on the floor.
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Well we tested the Bullfrog A8 without the lounger and we may have found a winner. Way different than the a8L due to the foot massage dome on the floor.
Congrats! the dome is awesome, In the A8/R8 I like to sit on the cool down seat and just "hover" my legs above the dome so my feet get blasted, also since it's a big tub it gives you plenty of anchor points for people who experience floating
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Well we tested the Bullfrog A8 without the lounger and we may have found a winner. Way different than the a8L due to the foot massage dome on the floor.
Congrats! the dome is awesome, In the A8/R8 I like to sit on the cool down seat and just "hover" my legs above the dome so my feet get blasted, also since it's a big tub it gives you plenty of anchor points for people who experience floating
What price did you get on the A8? I wet tested it yesterday & got quoted an astronomical price I think, $16,895. Its going to lose a sale for me. He is already texting me since I walked.
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Try an R8 same spa for the most part, less a jet pack & bells/whistles.
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I was open to that, his price on that was $14,395 - I still think its too much for that tub. And I like bells & whistles. lol
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Yeah 14 is about 2+ grand over, depending where you buy.
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Based on my research thats what I gathered. I was hoping to get an A8 for 12.5 based on some of the prices Ive seen on here. But for that price Im gonna end up in a Optima I think. The dealer has been emailing me all day. lol
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Been waiting to put in the order for our BF A8...waiting for a sale around labor day.
Talked to a D1 rep today about a Nautilus and it got me thinking.
Anyone have a good read on a Nautilus vs an A8....or D1 vs bullfrog I guess.
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A8L made my short list but dealer in upstate N.Y. wanted 15.5 made it a non starter ended up in a Marquis Vector 94L for 7500 couldn't be happier.
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Been waiting to put in the order for our BF A8...waiting for a sale around labor day.
Talked to a D1 rep today about a Nautilus and it got me thinking.
Anyone have a good read on a Nautilus vs an A8....or D1 vs bullfrog I guess.
The D1 Nautilis, my personal favorite hot tub for many years. Great comfortable seating, open design, powerful jets, quiet. Reputation for quality, longevity and energy efficiency. Great fit and finish.
They are higher up my top ten list than BF. But that means nothing to you. I worked with a D1 dealer for years. Solid tubs. But they changed ownership. Not sure if that changed anything or not.
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Well I can get the A8 for $9.3k and the Nautilus first quote was $11.5k all in without any negotiation.
If that is his best price I'm not sure it's worth the extra 2k. The only D1 we wet tested was an Amore Bay and didn't love it...was middle of the pack.
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Sounds like you're having second thoughts? I know you really loved the Cantabria but not the price. Perhaps wait and see if your Caldera dealer will have a sale.
I have never owned a Caldera or D1 but I did recently own a Bullfrog R6L. I would recommend, no complaints. Maybe as an FYI. One thing now that I'm back to a spa without jetpaks I will not miss having to take out the jetpaks and clean the back manifold area every time I changed out the water. I only had 3 in mine an A8 will have more. It does take additional time/step vs a spa without.
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I am now limited on size so the Cantabria is out of the picture, just too big to fit where I want it.
Not sure if it's second thought or just want to make sure I have all the info I need before making the decision.
Still 95% leaning towards the A8, but may give the Nautilus a shot.
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I am now limited on size so the Cantabria is out of the picture, just too big to fit where I want it.
Not sure if it's second thought or just want to make sure I have all the info I need before making the decision.
Still 95% leaning towards the A8, but may give the Nautilus a shot.
One thing is for certain, you are doing your homework and will get whats right for YOU.
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What makes the Nautilus your favorite?
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What makes the Nautilus your favorite?
I sat in a lot of tubs. When I first sat in a Nautilus I noticed that the open seating made it almost effortless to move from seat to seat to get a different feel. Turn the jets on high and wish you were in the seat next door and poof, you were there. The jets were put in the perfect spots for my body and it had a huge amount of adjustment from power to blow you out of the seat to calm swirling water that was pushed by a pump so quiet you didn't even know it was running. At the time it was an 8000 dollar tub and the dealer cost was a couple grand less. The one I was sitting in was one of the first years it was made. Then I had a chance to sit in a newer one 2012 I think. Nothing had changed other than more modern pumps and controls. It fit me perfect. I purchased that one used and had it in my garage for almost a year before I sold it. It looked brand new. It was also a very power frugal tub. I have a power meter on my 220v power cord that I use for repairs.
Sigh........now it's been 5 years. Are they still the same? We don't have a D1 dealer on this board anymore so.......
I've owned a lot of tubs. Only one for more than about a year as I refurb and sell. That was the best feeling one I owned. Believe it or not a Calspa comes in second. Had a ton of power and a great feel but it was noisy and power hungry and not put together real well with a messy equipment area.
You have to sit in them wet and it's to bad you can't sit in them a few times for a few hours. Then you will know which feels right to you.
The best wet test advice I can give is to bring a note pad and take notes. And it's better to get multiple tests in the same day.
1. How does it feel? 1 to 10
2. Do the jets hit the right spots?
3. Is it easy and comfortable to move around to get a different feel?
4. Is there enough leg room?
5. How are the controls? Easy/complicated.
6. How quiet/noisy is it on low, high?
7. How well is it put together, seams, jet faces, top lip, siding, corners, controls, base, equipment area? Fit and finish.
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As you saw on my thread, wet testing alot of the same...
Bullfrog is having a promo but the best prcing I got was $11,500 + delivery + tax on an A8; this reflects a $500 discount from 1st price I was given by same dealer. The delivery part is a deal breaker at that price. ::) I will say however, if they made an XL Tub I would probably have it at the very top of the list (You listening Bullfrog?? You're leaving BIG money on the table)
Catabria was $1000 more; I know you said you were eliminating it but wanted to give you a response. Hope that helped you understand where your quotes are. Both my quotes were on new orders btw.
I'm still finalizing my purchase as well but think those 2 are out for me, everyone has different criteria. :-\
Looking mostly @ j-495 or Aspen.
FWIW - Grandee has been quoted @ $11K with discounts still available "When I'm a Buyer" ??? Grandee may still win this though??? Waiting to see if I get to WET TEST it before I decide. :-X
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It's crazy how we get such different prices. My A8 price is a factory order at $10.2k and they have a $800 rebate starting this weekend. That includes cover, lift, tax delivery, chemicals, etc. The A8 is with a Ozonator and recirc pump but no audio.
Cantabria started at $15.5k, then dropped by $500 a week til they got to $14k and wouldn't budge anymore.
We really liked the Grandee but best price is about $13k with taxes and that is without the ACE salt system. We liked the tub a lot, to moto jets were great but kind of a one trick pony perhaps. It didnt offer much in the foot/leg area as you noted.
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The Grandee is a great tub also. Big open seating. And we all know about the manufacturers reputation. They can do more with less HP (less operating cost) than anyone.
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Tested out a Jacuzzi J 470 today. Wasn't our favorite... jets didn't seem to have a whole lot of pressure and most of the seats felt too upright.
I've been looking for reasons to not get the A8 but can't find anything that beats it for the value. Down to the Nautilus if they can get one filled this week
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Personally felt the Grandee was MAJOR float issues... :o
The j-470 was small feeling to me and I'm only 5'7 ::)
Just my 2 cents bc I just wet tested them... :-X
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Personally felt the Grandee was MAJOR float issues... :o
The j-470 was small feeling to me and I'm only 5'7 ::)
Just my 2 cents bc I just wet tested them... :-X
Everybody floats different in different tubs. This is why wet tests are so important if you want more than swirling hot water. Hydrotherapy is hard to get right.
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Do you have an Artesian dealer nearby? I finally ended my search and ordered a Grand Bahama Elite two weeks ago. Had been looking at Marquis, Jacuzzi, Hot Spring, Sundance and Bullfrog. To me, the Jets were powerful, which was high on my list, and with their direct flow system, you can dial in the power anywhere between low and high, plus the controls are for each major seat rather than half a tub. Awesome foot blasters.
American company, great warranty and felt real good. If you have one close, check out their elite line in the island series or their Platinum elite line if you want more motors and seating.
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Never looked into Artesian. Just found the dealer isn't too far from me but not sure I want to throw another in the mix. I feel we have been through so many already
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I understand the feeling of information overload with too many options.
I was a bit hesitant too considering the drive was an hour away, but in the end it was worth it. I got the Grand Bahama Elite, no audio, with their Crystal AOP, inline @ease, delivery, years worth of chemicals, cover lifter, steps and tax for $10,300 including 60 months 0%financing after some negotiating.
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What area are you in?
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Northern Indiana. Dealer is in Merrillville (East of Chicago).
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Remember, more pumps means more monthly cost to operate.
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Talked to the Artisian dealer...he can do the Grand Cayman Elite for $10k even with everything included.
Not sure if it's worth the test.
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Tested out an artesian... but wasn't the grand Cayman elite like he told me on the phone. But it did end up being our 2nd favorite tub.
In the end we pulled the trigger on a bullfrog A8.
Got the ozonator and circle pump. Now wondering if I should get the cloud module. Probably not super useful but would come in handy checking on the tub to make sure it's operating when we can't get to it.
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What was the final price and name of dealer?
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We looked at the Bullfrog today and in Raleigh NC an A8 is $14,500 and the R8 is $13,300. Dealer comments they are high volume, low price.
Wife is still aimed at the South Seas 965L by Artesian. $8495.
More wet testing to come.