Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Judy_S on June 19, 2006, 09:23:00 pm
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Hi every one and Thank you for your helping chosing a spa. I have had the Marquis 315 for almost 2 weeks now and both my husband and I just love it.
For the 1st week our "frog" bromine was set at 3 where the installer left it. We never put anything in the water after each use, but I shocked it once after a week. We now put 1 tsp spa shock per person in the tub when we get out. We both use it for 1/2 hr - 45 mins each night. There are 195 gallons of water in the spa according to the specs.
I spoke to the lady at our dealer and she recommended the tsp per person, and said we didnt need to shock once a week.
Our TBr (bromine) and FCI (chlorine) levels are deep purple, as they have been since we first soaked. I did turn the bromine cartridge down to "1". What am I doing wrong? Too much spa shock? or not enough?
???
Thanks for helping another newbie for the hundreth time lol
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Hi Judy, I am sure Mendo or Markee or one of the other Marquis guys can probably tell you better than I can, but since you have no answers yet...here goes based on my experience with my Marquis Epic. My tub has about 450 gals, so a bit more volume than yours. I keep my bromine set to 2. I know initially they say to shock once a week, but I think that may be based on something, like so many people soaking so often...anyway, since we were using the tub alot, we shocked more often but at the most, I shocked 3 TBs per week. I have NEVER shocked per person per soak. I think you may be confused with folks that use other methods, not bromine and not a frog that injects bromine when your pump runs. I am thinking you may be over dosing your 195 ga tub with, not only bromine, but also shock. I am also curious about your test strips, my strips used to glow green when my bromine was too high.
It took me months to get the frog thing right and the absolute best thing that I did was to listen to Chas when things got real crazy with my water...He said to dump and refill. If you get to the point that you can't get your chemicals in control, I really believe it is best to start fresh and not over manage the water.
Believe me,I was on here constantly with water problems, now it is like second nature. You just need to relax and not be too agressive with your water program.
Mendo....Markee DPS...please comment ;)
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Judy_S,
I've read your post a couple of times now but I'm still not sure what actually is the problem. Is it that the test strip is deep purple indicating a lot of bromine? If so, you did the right thing by turning the cartridge back to 1.
You didn't indicate what you are using as a shock. There is a granulated form of bromine and I hope you're not using it to shock. That's just used to add enough bromine to your spa after you have refilled it or if you need to raise the level of bromine up quickly.
As Bonibelle noted, with bromine you don't shock after every soak. I shock with MPS once a week and that's been fine for me.
I hope this helps,
Phil
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Phil, It sounded to me like she was shocking after each use. I think that may be why her readings are strange.
If the bromine is really high, her other values may also be off...like Ph and alkalinity...isn't that right? I know at first all the
chemicals seemed so confusing, so maybe Judy does have her powdered bromine confused with her shock.
Maybe first thing to do, Judy, is to carefully identify all of your chemicals.
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Always better to have it a little high than not enough, but I think you can get away with shocking once a week. Set your bromine cartridge to the numbers of users that normally use the spa. If two people are generally what is in the spa, set it at 2. During periods with high use supplement with some chlorine.
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...Set your bromine cartridge to the numbers of users that normally use the spa. If two people are generally what is in the spa, set it at 2.
Gary,
Is that what the numbers on the side of the bromine cartridge indicate? I always thought they were just arbitrary values, 1 - low and 6 - high, etc.
Nice to know. :)
Phil
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If I were to set my floater to, say 2 (based on number of people that normally use the tub), I can't see as how it would work for us, as I currently have a "generic" type floater that goes past 11 or so.....I think I've got it set at about 7 right now. It WAS set higher, until the levels stabilized. And residuals are currently hovering around 3-5ppm with the tub being used 2-4 times per week...
Unless those numbers that Gary threw out represent a different style floater, maybe? ???
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...Unless those numbers that Gary threw out represent a different style floater, maybe? ???
Tatooey,
I'm pretty sure Gary is talking about the King Technologies Inline Frog bromine cartridges (http://www.kingtechnology.com/products/products2.htm) which are built into many (all?) Marquis spas.
It's built into my Marquis Reward and the numbers on the side of the cartridge go from 1 to 6. As I said, I thought they were arbitrary. It never occured to me they represented the number of people that normally use the spa. I still don't know if that's true but it sounds good. ;D
Phil
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Phil I have been trying to figure out the number thing...
I can't imagine that it has to do with the number of people in the tub..although that would simplify things.
Here's why...my tub is 450 gallons, your tub is 400 gallons and Judy's is 195 gallons, how could the same setting work for all of those different volumes?
I think there is probably some correlation of time that (in my case, and I think yours too) pump #1 runs. Since the bromine is injected by that pump, how long it is running and injecting bromine is probably the factor that would determine the setting. To simplify, they just pick a number that would work most of the time. Also, you are using bromine pucks in your cartridge, I think there is some kind of chunks in mine, so the rate of dissolution might be different between my cartridge and yours...Wooo :o this is getting way to scientific for my brain tonight...I am heading for the pool (84 degrees ) and a dip in the tub....Have a great night Phil, I don't think we will solve the "Bromine cartridge setting mystery" tonight :-/
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Phil I have been trying to figure out the number thing...Have a great night Phil, I don't think we will solve the "Bromine cartridge setting mystery" tonight :-/
Bonibelle,
No, you're right, we won't solve this tonight. And I see what you're getting at. Here's something else to think about. We already know King really, really, really wants to sell these bromine cartridges. Their reaction to my previous posts on how to refill them using standard bromine tablets, asking Bill to remove those posts, show they must be making a buncle of $ off each cartridge.
I think they just want to sell as many as possible. So someone with a 195 gal. tub will have a higher concentration of bromine then you and I with our 400 and 450 gal tub on the same setting. You're right, Judy should be able to adjust it to a 1 and still have plenty of sanitizer for her size tub. Or maybe there's less circulation going on in the 195 gal tub, dispensing less bromine. I don't know.
By the way, my bromine pucks and your chunks are identical kinds of bromine. I checked the label on King's frog bromine cartridge and verified I bought the exact same thing at Leslie's Pool Supply for a lot less.
Phil
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Phil, I know the bromine is the same chemical, I am just thinking that if there are chunks opposed to large pucks, they may disolve at a different rate because of more surface area. That might affect the setting also. I know the chemical is doing the same thing....I am jealous that I don't have a single cartridge that I can get open to refill. You are so right, they are making a killing on the cost of packaging the bromine.
I just pulled a cartridge that I had in the tub for 6 weeks
(I am running in economy mode) and I know it is still half full...but it seems like the bromine is clumped and stuck in the bottom and I was afraid it wouldn't continue to work right. It is like a solid mass in the bottom. So that really makes me think your pucks would work much better for a longer period of time.
Hopefully by now Judy has taken a sample of water to her dealer and has her problem cleared up or at least understands why her strips are purple ;)
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I cannot take my water sample to my dealer as they are an hour away. I am using the "King frog system" as NE-Phil stated in his post. According to my test strips, the bromine and chlorine levels are way too high. I was shocking with "Spa Shock" 1-2 tsp each night after I get out of the tub...is this too much or too little? The container says "weekly", but the gal at my dealer said to use the 1-2 tsp after each use. I am so confused! I understand the ph up and down, that is too easy, but if my chlorine and bromine levels are too high, does it mean I am using too much spa shock or not enough? My other levels such as ph and alkiline are fine.
NE-Phil I would love to hear from you on how to refill my bromine cartridge if you would be so kind ::)
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Most of my customers with 315's set their bromine cartridge on 1. You can set your "Smart Logic" (clean-up) cycle to 2 hours from the default 1 hour setting to account for 2 people using the spa if that's the norm. This will circulate water through the cartridges (including the filter cartridge) for 2 hours after the spa is used and add a little more bromine than it does on the 1 hour Smart Logic cycle. I recommend shocking once a week with MPS (2 ounces in a 315). You may need to supplement between shockings with a little granular bromine or chlorine on nights when the spa gets unusually heavy bather load. Also - when you fill the spa with new water leave the cartridge out until the spa gets up to temperature.
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NE-Phil I would love to hear from you on how to refill my bromine cartridge if you would be so kind ::)
Judy,
Here's an earlier post (click here) (http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1137738020;start=30), explaining how to refill the bromine cartridge, complete with a picture. This thread is three pages long so be sure to read all the posts. As a bonus, it includes my rant on corporate greed and filling up landfills with more spent bromine cartridges! ::) Sometimes I get carried away...
Unfortunately, King changed the cartridge by gluing on the lid. When I initially bought mine last year, the cap was just a pressure fit. Now they are glued on and people have told me they can't get it off. So you may be stuck.
But you don't have anything to lose by giving it a try! ;D
Phil
P.S. Bill McC, our illustrious Moderator, will probably get more emails from King for my bringing this up. They didn't like my previous posts on refilling the bromine cartridges and demanded they be removed. They were not removed. :o I'm rather proud of that! 8)
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Thank you so much DPS and NE-Phil this helps alot. I will post pics of my tub soon! 8)
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I wonder, being the rather curious type that I am, if there's a way to drill a hole in the side of the "new and improved you can't open the cartridge now, you scummy consumer bastage, you!" and use the bromine granules to refill....if it were drilled in the "right" position, only fully opening the setting would allow the hole to be exposed....
Muahahaha......meet the cheap-o consumer, mr. corporate schmuck. We want refillable cartridges instead of full landfills. Have you ever BEEN to a landfill? Yuck. I have. Today, even...it was windy, dusty, stinky....and we could call it a 'land HALF full' if we could dispose of some of the cheapo disposable garbage and replace it with something reasonably priced that will last.
Wow, so I've been up for far too long, and have delusions of brain cells working overtime with positive results....but that's okay, I'm secure with my weirdness.
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Lady,
I can agree. I've been called cheap myself for some reason or another. And not just on this site... ::)
Here's a picture of the cartridge's parts:
(http://phil.dixon.net/images/BRCartridge.JPG)
On the left you have the cap and the outside shell of the cartridge. On the right is the inner cartridge containing the bromine tablets. I can fit 9 each of the 1-1/4" tabs. (More than King was putting in)
What's missing is a spacer about 2" long which King would put into the inner cartridge so they didn't have to put in as much bromine and, if you shook it, it didn't rattle like it was half empty. Can you believe it? I threw that spacer away!
Anyway, there are holes machined into both cartridges and the inner cartridge slides inside the outer cartridge so you adjust how much or how little bromine is dispensed. Clever idea. BUT then they went ahead and glued the tops on and now its impossible to reuse the cartridge. I don't see how the current cartridges could be used but maybe someone else can come up with a method.
Also, the bromine granules are not the same as the bromine tablets. The granules have an immediate effect on bromine levels and is primarily used for new water. The tabs are slow acting.
Since I started refilling my cartridges I can go just short of a month before I need to refill it. And I tend to have more bromine in the tub rather than the bare minimum.
Again, I hope someone can come up with a better alternative. It is a waste and an unnecessary expense.
Phil
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Marquis Dealers now have new cartridges available that cost around the same amount but hold 30% more bromine. The idea IS to have the bare minimum bromine. You don't want more than you have to have. Having more than you have to have has always been the problem with the bromine tablets you are using. One big advantage of the bromine cartridge is the ability to easily regulate the correct amount of bromine and not have more than you need in the water.
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Marquis Dealers now have new cartridges available that cost around the same amount but hold 30% more bromine. The idea IS to have the bare minimum bromine. You don't want more than you have to have. Having more than you have to have has always been the problem with the bromine tablets you are using. One big advantage of the bromine cartridge is the ability to easily regulate the correct amount of bromine and not have more than you need in the water.
DPS,
Yes, I know King came out with cartridges with glued on caps and more bromine. Are they still the same size cartridge? If so, then all they did was remove the spacer. That's a step in the right direction. I'd still like to see them use snap-on caps again so we can refill them.
And I agree with you 100% about bromine regulation. That's just not the point I was trying to make. My point is that even though I tend to lean towards having too much bromine, the refilled cartridge still lasts me almost a month.
Someday, when I finally do get the hang of having just enough bromine - then the refilled cartridge will last more than a month.
And that's a good thing! ;D ;)
Phil