Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Vorpel on July 12, 2014, 10:45:40 pm
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Hello! My wife and I are looking to purchase our first spa, and after wet tests my wife likes the Sundance Optima the best. Now that we know what we want, it is up to me to get the best price I can.
I believe in getting a good deal when I'm spending this much money, but I don't expect to keep the dealer from earning a profit. Whoever we go with will most likely have our business for years to come. All that being said, I have a few questions on how to go about getting the best deal I reasonably can. So far my wife has talked with the local dealer. I want as much info as I can get before I start talking with them about price.
Question 1: As the basis for understanding pricing, how can I find out the MSRP of the 2014 Optima (and what the options list for)?
Question 2: I have not been able to find much online about Optima pricing (that is recent), so how can I learn what a good deal is?
Question 3: I live in Idaho and there is only 1 local dealer. If I don't like the price from my local dealer, will dealers in other areas sell this spa to me (not sure if there are territorial restrictions)?
I would love to keep my purchase local, but at the end of the day I need to make the best use of my funds (as they are unfortunately not unlimited!)
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
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Let the dealer know that you are serious and have checkbook in hand. Start negotiating the purchase price with a number you are comfortable with and are willing to pull the trigger if accepted. Any price out the door that is less than 12k would be a good price IMO. Make sure that the final price includes cover,cover lifter, steps, delivery, startup chems. and have the dealer throw in an extra set of filters. I even got an extra clear-ray bulb. Have the dealer give you his best buy it today price and go from there. You could start the negotiating at $10,500.00 and see if the dealer will accept or counter but I prefer to let the person selling the item to make the first move. Remember that the dealer wants to sell you his product. You just need to be comfortable with the price. Having cash in hand gives you a stronger position. Good luck! Let us know about your purchase.
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I just purchased my 1st tub so I can't provide the Spa-knowledge that other people on here are such a great a resource for. However, I consider myself an expert at purchasing so I feel very qualified to answer these questions. There is very little you can find online regarding price, it's all negotiation. For me, I expect 15%-20% discount and never do worse than 10%. Several here (dealers) will give lots of reasons why you shouldn't expect that much - but markup on these items is WAY higher than most people think. Even if he makes a little less on this sale, he's gaining a customer, which will be back for chemicals and other items at full retail prices.
The main thing is to keep your excitement to yourself. You said there's only the one dealer in your area, but hopefully there's a competing brand locally. Make sure the Sundance dealer thinks he needs to earn your purchase over something else that is cheaper. ALWAYS speak very highly of his competition and how much you're really looking carefully between the two, especially on price. Be an expert on the good qualities of the competing brand and ask him to help you understand his product. Let him talk more than you talk.
My purchase experience, hopefully you find it helpful:
Locally I had Jacuzzi, Bullfrog, Caldera, Hot Springs that I visited and a few others I didn't. The Jacuzzi and Bullfrog dealers both sold Sunrise as a secondary brand, which is what I bought. Being new to spas, I visited each store 3-4 times as I was deciding what to get, so they knew me when I walked in. I was able to get the Bullfrog dealer down 10% off the sticker price (which was already marked as being a "sale price") and the next time I went to the Jacuzzi place I told him "give me a reason to not go back to Bullfrog". Knowing that I had a deal on the table from Bullfrog, but not knowing exactly what that deal was, he quoted me 20% under sticker. At that point I told him if he'd throw in the cover lifter and steps for free ($400 value) I'd put down a deposit and he did. Deal done. Started at $8,000 base price and got it for $6,500 including the optional UV system, cover lifter and steps.
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I just purchased my 1st tub so I can't provide the Spa-knowledge that other people on here are such a great a resource for. However, I consider myself an expert at purchasing so I feel very qualified to answer these questions. There is very little you can find online regarding price, it's all negotiation. For me, I expect 15%-20% discount and never do worse than 10%. Several here (dealers) will give lots of reasons why you shouldn't expect that much - but markup on these items is WAY higher than most people think. Even if he makes a little less on this sale, he's gaining a customer, which will be back for chemicals and other items at full retail prices.
The main thing is to keep your excitement to yourself. You said there's only the one dealer in your area, but hopefully there's a competing brand locally. Make sure the Sundance dealer thinks he needs to earn your purchase over something else that is cheaper. ALWAYS speak very highly of his competition and how much you're really looking carefully between the two, especially on price. Be an expert on the good qualities of the competing brand and ask him to help you understand his product. Let him talk more than you talk.
My purchase experience, hopefully you find it helpful:
Locally I had Jacuzzi, Bullfrog, Caldera, Hot Springs that I visited and a few others I didn't. The Jacuzzi and Bullfrog dealers both sold Sunrise as a secondary brand, which is what I bought. Being new to spas, I visited each store 3-4 times as I was deciding what to get, so they knew me when I walked in. I was able to get the Bullfrog dealer down 10% off the sticker price (which was already marked as being a "sale price") and the next time I went to the Jacuzzi place I told him "give me a reason to not go back to Bullfrog". Knowing that I had a deal on the table from Bullfrog, but not knowing exactly what that deal was, he quoted me 20% under sticker. At that point I told him if he'd throw in the cover lifter and steps for free ($400 value) I'd put down a deposit and he did. Deal done. Started at $8,000 base price and got it for $6,500 including the optional UV system, cover lifter and steps.
Which model did you get at that price ?
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Thanks for the replies - please keep them coming!
How can I find out the list/MSRP price? I agree that I'm looking for x% off! but if I don't know what the list is I can't figure that out.
My wife was quoted $12.5k for the Optima without audio (which I am not interested in) less a $675 Visa card. Seems like retail with 5% cash back. Definitely not a good price.
Thanks!
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I got a 2014 Sunrise S104
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Go to the Sundance online website find the contact us part and send a e-mail asking what the price of this tub is, they will send you a price. Sundance which is owned by Jacuzzi are nice and they've answered all my e-mails it's one of the reasons why I like Sundance, other dealers didn't send me any info so I pulled them out from running. Bullfrog will also answer e-mails nicely. Because of space limitations for me my choices are going to be either the Sundance Capri or Marquis The Spirit, with maybe Hot Springs Jet Setter NXT. all these are smaller hot tubs and the dealers have been patient with me.
So go online and e-mail Sundance, it's always a plus when they contact you as then they might be able to help you out should anything happen to your hot tub. So to me "Contact" is just as important as the dealer.
Also, ask if they have a discount for posting feedback or pictures online about your purchase, one local dealer here offers specials to the customers whom leave feedback online, positive or not so positive. Because online feedback is always good for these dealers...and if your getting the hot tub for medical reasons then ask your doctor for a prescription, that will save you on the sales tax. If your in a state that'll allow for this. Hope this info helps...
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Welcome to the forum. As another said, make sure the dear knows your a serious buyer and that you are looking at other tubs. Many people, myself included don't buy hot tubs the first time they start shopping for one. A casual mention that I'll be ready to commit as soon as I can get a date from, the electrician, or the concrete guy.
Good choice on Tub.
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Get yourself about 80 one hundred dollar bills when you are sure of the tub you want. If it's not enough or to much don't worry about it. It's a load of cash. Make sure to get a wet test first if you are very serious and, that is possible. When it comes time to deal hold out the roll of hundreds and make him a lower than you are willing to pay, offer. Knowing the dealer DOES have wiggle room. Maybe not a lot but you can find out. Don't insult by going to low and make sure you ask him for his best deal first before you make any counter offer. If there's a tag on the unit that's a good place to start asking him what his best price is.
As an example if he says 8 tell him 6500. He may come down a little he may not. If he says 8 is the lowest he can go then tell him your disappointed, you like the tub. You'll go to 6800. If he doesn't come down any after 2 offers you will know he's got a tight margin and he will also know your serious because.....(you showed him the roll that's now in your pocket) Then change the subject and talk about extras, extended warranty, cover lift, upgraded steps/lighting/stereo, chems, longevity, existing customers references. Open up the cabinet again and talk about the guts. Ask him what tub he has. Any freebies he gives you let him think this makes you more comfortable going a little higher, but wait for his offer, he's got the ball. If he doesn't offer make sure he has your number when you leave. Take some time at that point to talk to us or elsewhere to get any insight/feedback on it or other brands. You learn a lot about a dealer/salesman/team member after a negotiation bout with them. Going back is easy if no one is insulted or angry. He may just call in a day or so with his new price. It's even easier to do the whole thing again on the phone. Now he says he can go to 7800. Your comfortable at 72 and tell him now we aren't that far apart. How can he help you meet your budget. Might have to tell him your talk to the spouse about it and get back to him. See if 75 is where you want to be then call him in a couple days and tell him that. Now you've worked and got a better deal.
But there is a million ways this whole deal could go. I find it easy some people don't. Being nice is always the best policy. Whether you walk out or not. Sometimes going back garners a better price and if everyone is nice...... Now you can leave the cash at home. He'll take a check.
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I negotiated "on-line" over the course of approximately 3 weeks. After I got the price to drop as far as it would go (you kind of know when you've hit the bottom) I told the rep that he "had a deal" if he threw in a few extras (heavy duty lift, cedar steps, louvered access panel, wifi, forever floor, start up chemicals, etc.). I then got the shipping thrown in, as well.
He was a great guy, and I think he kinda liked the "back and forth".
The worst you can get when you are negotiating, is "no", so I say just go for it!
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I ran across an internet post recently from an alleged former Sundance dealer (take that with a grain of salt). He stated Sundance try's to bake in a 40% margin for the dealer to work with in their pricing. I assume the dealer has to pay shipping and everything else out of that margin. The hard part is figuring out what the true Sundance list price on a spa is and what other costs (besides shipping, brick/mortar overhead and franchise fees etc) the dealer has to pay for/cover in their margin. Most dealers then start throwing in freebies such as covers, lift arms, steps, chemicals, delivery and installation etc. which eats further into their margin.
For reference, I recently purchased a Jacuzzi J335 (Sundance cousin) for $7,500 plus sales tax and it included the following.
- Jacuzzi J335
- Pre-delivery site inspection
- Delivery and Setup of new tub
- Haul off and desposal of old tub (18 yrs old - no value)
- Cover
- Lift arm with hydraulic assist
- Steps
- Startup Chemicals
My only other costs besides taxes might be to bring electrical or others items up to current building code that are found as the result of the pre-delivery inspection.
Bottom line - Purchase based on the best 'value' within your budget and do not stress over it.
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Well, what a difference a week can make! In the quest to find some comparable prices for the Sundance Optima, I came across some links for Marquis spas. My wife and I paid the dealer a visit at lunch and were very impressed with Marquis in general, and liked the Epic very much.
Since both my wife and I have skin conditions (psoriasis, and very dry skin) we were intrigued with the MicroSilk system. The dealer didn't have one in stock, but from what we have read it sure sounds like a promising option.
Both spas are comparably priced (approx 11k) but the Epic comes with the MicroSilk and wrap around bench.
Two questions:
For the Epic with MicroSilk, aromatherapy, wi-fi, lights, no stereo, and corner bench with regular bench is a little under 11k a good price?
Initial Marquis quote included 3 months supplies - this seems on the low side. Am I correct on this?
Thanks for all the suggestions and help!
-Vorpel
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The Microsilk has me intriged as well, However, the dealer here was just getting the Marquis spas in and knew little about them and was not well stocked up on supplies yet.
Don't forget to wet tests the Marquis, before you buy...
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Well, what a difference a week can make! In the quest to find some comparable prices for the Sundance Optima, I came across some links for Marquis spas. My wife and I paid the dealer a visit at lunch and were very impressed with Marquis in general, and liked the Epic very much.
Since both my wife and I have skin conditions (psoriasis, and very dry skin) we were intrigued with the MicroSilk system. The dealer didn't have one in stock, but from what we have read it sure sounds like a promising option.
Both spas are comparably priced (approx 11k) but the Epic comes with the MicroSilk and wrap around bench.
Two questions:
For the Epic with MicroSilk, aromatherapy, wi-fi, lights, no stereo, and corner bench with regular bench is a little under 11k a good price?
Initial Marquis quote included 3 months supplies - this seems on the low side. Am I correct on this?
Thanks for all the suggestions and help!
-Vorpel
I am a marquis dealer. With those options you are getting a great price. We sell the epic for 11k with lights, cover lift and steps only. Microsilk we sell for 1999 so you are saving at minimum 2k over what most marquis dealers sell that package for. Not that it means much but MSRP on that package is over 16k. I only mention that because in a previous post you asked about msrp in the sundance
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Thanks for the replies -.this is a huge decision, so all this help is greatly appreciated.
Hottubguy - thanks for your input. It seemed like a good deal but your confirmation really helps.
Hope to get an order in this week.
-Vorpel
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Let me know how you like that MicroSilk, please!
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Let me know how you like that MicroSilk, please!
Will do! I imagine it'll be 3 weeks or so...!
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Let me know how you like that MicroSilk, please!
Will do! I imagine it'll be 3 weeks or so...!
Don't be too upset if it takes 4 or 5 weeks. The factory has been swamped as of late. Congrats on your purchase. Which color combo did you choose?
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If you contact Sundance through the website do you get a quote from the local dealer, or from the company itself? We visited a showroom today, and don't want to undermine our negotiation by submitting a request that would be directed to the retailer.
We were quoted 7800 for the new Mckinley spa--i thought that was pretty good (though we'll still try to get a but off), but would definitely be interested in feedback on that price.
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We haven't purchased anything yet. We will be wet testing the Marquis again today.
The Sundance dealer also carries Artesian spas (which have MicroSilk as well). Any guidance on how Artesian spas are?
I'll be researching at lunch...!
Thanks!
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I just want to add that not all dealers start with an artificially inflated price and don't have anywhere near 10% to come down, let alone the 20% mentioned earlier. There are many in this industry that start with ridiculously high starting prices so that they can make the customer feel like they got an amazing deal. I can't tell you how often I hear from customers that they got a $15k spa for only $7k. This is just B.S.
Some dealers start with a very fair price and have little room to negotiate.
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The Epic with Microsilk and those options in an incredible price. I would definitely wet test the Epic if you can. Most dealers sell the Epic for 12-13K without Microsilk which is normally a $1995 option.
Look at the internals of all the spas you're considering, take a look inside where all of the equipment is kept. The Marquis quality and fit-and-finish is top notch.
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Just curious if you pulled the trigger yet. I live in the Boise area and have just started shopping tubs. We liked the new Hot springs JETSETTER NXT and the Marquis Spirit just wondered which one you decided on.
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How did the wet tests go?
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Sorry for the late reply, but we finally placed our order on Wednesday! We went with the Marquis Epic w/ MicroSilk, stereo, lights, and smelly stuff (aromatherapy according to my wife!). Per the sales manager, we should have the tub in 2 weeks.
We are so excited and anxious to get it! The icing on the cake is that we really liked the dealership and the sales manager - Mike. His first quote was his last quote, and that was because he didn't do the whole jack up the price so that he could then come down. Based on feedback here and what little else I could find online, he did a great offer. We are going to be very happy working with them (The Pool Doctor in Boise, ID) for years to come.
Now to just get the electrical done and the cement pad poured...!
Thanks everyone for your help! We can't wait to start using out awesome new spa!
-Devin
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Congrats! Marquis builds a nice spa, underrated in my opinion!
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Congrats on making a decision and getting a fair deal. Please don't forget about us -- we'd love to hear how the tub works out for you. Too many people disappear after they get their tub and then we never get to hear if they actually like what they got!! I know there is a lot of curiosity about the microsilk.
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Thanks! I'll definitely report back on how the MicroSilk works.
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Well, we got out tub delivered on the 15th, but the electrical didn't get done and inspected until the 20th. We got it setup, and balanced on the 21st, and have now used it now 4 times in the last three days! Wow! We love it!
We will give the MicroSilk another week before we make any judgements, but so far we like it.
Thanks again for all your help!
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I know this post is a little old, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the microsilk. I plan on getting my first hot tub between Sept and January when I sell my vacation back. I've been dropping small and not so small hints to my wife about my plans, like reading from this website everyday for two weeks. She doesn't seem to like my idea so much, until I had her watch the microsilk infomercial. Just wondering if you noticed any skin difference. My wife will do anything to try and look young (now 50) and I will do anything to get a hot tub. So, whatever your answer is she will only here that it works from me, but between us what did you think. Now I need to find a dealer out here with the best reputation - Seattle.
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I can't answer your question about the microsilk personally, but I know my dealer loves it and recommends it all the time! Your wife may want to look young, but I think feeling young is even more important! That's how I would try to sell her on a hot tub! Soaking in hot water is the best way to relax, loosen muscles and enjoy the outdoors when you normally might be inside looking out at snow and ice! It provides therapy to let your body feel healthy. I had Lyme disease for years and I had to convince my husband that the hot tub was a last resort therapy because nothing else was helping! My family joined us for a test soak at our local dealer and we all fell in love with soaking in hot water! I will always credit my hot tub with helping me manage and finally beat Lyme disease! In that respect, I probably became at least 10 years younger! Lol!
We have a Marquis Epic purchased in 2005 and if I needed to buy again, I would go with Marquis :) the therapy jets on my tub are amazing! Good luck and seriously you're only as old as you feel!
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I know this post is a little old, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the microsilk. I plan on getting my first hot tub between Sept and January when I sell my vacation back. I've been dropping small and not so small hints to my wife about my plans, like reading from this website everyday for two weeks. She doesn't seem to like my idea so much, until I had her watch the microsilk infomercial. Just wondering if you noticed any skin difference. My wife will do anything to try and look young (now 50) and I will do anything to get a hot tub. So, whatever your answer is she will only here that it works from me, but between us what did you think. Now I need to find a dealer out here with the best reputation - Seattle.
Great first post! And good luck with bringing your wife around to your way of thinking. I believe Jacuzzi Jim, one of the posters on this board is in the Bellingham area, but I think he sells Jacuzzi and Bullfrog. Once again, best of luck to you. And I'm sure if you do get a tub, you're wife will be very pleased.
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Thanks for the response. I'll be in Bellingham on August 18th I could swing by and meet jacuzzi Jim.
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Would love to meet with you, but I will be at the Lynden fair which runs the week of the 17th. We are opening a new store in Marysville that I will be running. Should be in by 1st of September, maybe sooner.
You can give me a call if you want.
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Jacuzzi Jim, I'll send you a pm today with my plans for a hot tub. Going to the fair sounds like a good plan. I'll be up there on the 18th for a Filipino party with my wife - good time to meet you.
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I'd also like to hear customer opinions on microsilk. We had it on one hot tub and had multiple issues trying to get it to work properly. A little gun shy now.