Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wondertubs on November 18, 2017, 08:17:07 pm
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Looking at the Caldera Spa site, they give price ranges for "Value-Priced Hot Tubs", among others. I'm wondering about this category in particular, excluding entry-level (rotationally-molded) and premium or luxury models. Theirs are said to start at $4000.
So who else makes value priced hot tubs, which start around there, and are distributed from dealers? Most manufacturers I've found don't give an indication of price ranges, even though they have similar categories as well. I gather this may be because many start at $5500 or more (from what I've read on forums). I know there are others online-only that start lower, so I don't consider $4000 to be cheap, or an indication that one is cheaply made either (especially if sold at a dealer of various spas).
Mostly I'm looking at the smaller ones (less than 32" in height), and it seems that once you get down to 3 seats, they don't go proportionately lower in price for fewer seats, gallons, or amount of materials based on their dimensions. I was initially surprised that the ones shaped like a bathtub were said to cost as much or more than some four seaters. I guess they figure that if you want one of those, then you need one of those and nothing larger, or that people could just get several small ones... anyone have a backup spa? They all seem to get mixed reviews on service issues, and look about the same, other than having special jets that may break more often (so I don't see that as an upgrade necessarily). Of course warranties are part of the picture between price ranges, and that's okay with me, since they all break down eventually (I don't get the impresson that quality varies greatly for a given company throughout their models).
On the one hand people say hot tubs are a luxury, and on the other, they're separated into categories based on value, in which "luxury" is the top of the line, so who (else) actually has "value" spas that also make a luxury line?
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Whatever the listed price is, is irrelevant because the dealer sets their price and it will always be under the MSRP. Keep in mind that MSRP's either don't exist on many brands or are inflated on all and some more than others. As for quality entry level spas, Caldera Vacanza series, Hot Spring Hot Spot, Bullfrog x-series, Marquis Celebrity, Jacuzzi J200, Sundance 600, Artesian South Seas, etc. Every quality manufacturer has entry level spas. You also have Nordic and Viking, which are basic entry level spas, but they keep it simple and use pretty good components. They are an upgrade over roto molded spas.
When searching strictly on price, consider this. When I sell a hot tub, the "listed" price from the manufacturer is for the hot tub and cover, everything else is technically extra. From a wholesale cost standpoint, I have a $200 cost difference between my cheapest step and most expensive step and $140 difference from my cheapest cover lift to most expensive cover lift. I'm including chemical which depending on whats included, can fluctuate by another $50. My added cost can now vary by as much as $400, just for the basic accessories. I can't have one set price for each hot tub when each situation may require different accessories.
I do sell Caldera and Hot Spring and I am in Wisconsin. My freight cost per hot tub can vary from about $250 per unit upwards of $450 depending on the quantity of that order. Then we are going to deliver the hot tub to your backyard. I need anywhere from 2-4 guys which all have wages to be paid. If you live close to my store vs an hour away is another unknown cost to me because gas and time cost money. I am also a servicing retailer, with a tech that has 20+ years experience who makes good money vs one of my competitors who has no service and use a 3rd party which is no cost to them.
What I am saying is there are a lot of variables that affect pricing. None of which even considers the actual overhead cost and what % profit the business needs to make money and stay in business. What I sell the Aventine for in Wisconsin will be different than someone in New York and California due to the above cost variances. And, regardless of what I sell for, does not mean any other dealer has to sell for that price.
Regarding small spas, they are never proportionately priced lower than their larger equivalents. Yes they are smaller and usually have less jets and sometimes fewer pumps, but the material cost is not that much different, the time and labor to make is not that much less, freight and other variables are really no different and every manufacturer knows they will sell at a lower volume, so if you can't make your money on volume, you make it on profit margins. I'm not saying they price gouge, but 7'x7' spas that seat 5-6 people probably outsell 5'x7' 3 person spas by 10-1, at least in my market they do. More competition means more competitive pricing.
Avoid internet only items. There is a reason they are online only and it's not because you are getting a better deal, its because no retailer wants that product either due to low quality, poor manufacturer support or other reasons. Visit your local dealers and see what is available locally to you. Get a feel for who is reputable and who will be there after the sale. Then you can narrow down the choices you have available.
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Whatever the listed price is, is irrelevant because the dealer sets their price and it will always be under the MSRP. Keep in mind that MSRP's either don't exist on many brands or are inflated on all and some more than others.
Well, I don't want to keep such a contradiction in terms in mind. Are you saying that Caldera inflated their price ranges though? Anyway, I don't look forward to wheeling and dealing at all, it would be nice have price ranges, so that neither of us had to waste each others time with that to begin with. I appreciate your feedback however. It simply isn't customary in general, compared to looking at new cars for example.
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Whatever the listed price is, is irrelevant because the dealer sets their price and it will always be under the MSRP. Keep in mind that MSRP's either don't exist on many brands or are inflated on all and some more than others.
Well, I don't want to keep such a contradiction in terms in mind. Are you saying that Caldera inflated their price ranges though?
Caldera MSRP range from $6,099 for the Aventine up to $19,899 for the Cantabria. The price chart you saw is about what you will see those tubs. They are pretty upfront on that blog post. Most dealers will be somewhere around $5k for the Aventine depending on options and around 15k for the Cantabria depending on options. There is a huge difference therapy, ease of use on controllers, better pc boards and better overall jetting on a vacanza Series Caldera versus a Utopia Series Caldera. The same could be said for all the major respected manufacturers.
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Caldera MSRP range from $6,099 for the Aventine up to $19,899 for the Cantabria. The price chart you saw is about what you will see those tubs. They are pretty upfront on that blog post. Most dealers will be somewhere around $5k for the Aventine depending on options and around 15k for the Cantabria depending on options. There is a huge difference therapy, ease of use on controllers, better pc boards and better overall jetting on a vacanza Series Caldera versus a Utopia Series Caldera. The same could be said for all the major respected manufacturers.
So within that range, $4000 was not for the Aventine? The rest appear to be much larger. Or are the options not optional?
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I wouldn’t sell it that low. Maybe if you bought the tub and cover only and picked it up yourself you could find someone to sell it to you for 4K. That wasn’t so much a guide on just a Caldera Tubs but more on all hot tubs in general.
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I wouldn’t sell it that low. Maybe if you bought the tub and cover only and picked it up yourself you could find someone to sell it to you for 4K. That wasn’t so much a guide on just a Caldera Tubs but more on all hot tubs in general.
Are you kidding?
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I wouldn’t sell it that low. Maybe if you bought the tub and cover only and picked it up yourself you could find someone to sell it to you for 4K. That wasn’t so much a guide on just a Caldera Tubs but more on all hot tubs in general.
Are you kidding?
Maybe the tub is 4k, steps are 199, chemical kit another $100, delivery another $300-$400. None of that other stuff is free to the dealer. That's why you price it into the price of the tub. I sell that tub with steps, delivery and chemical kit for $4999. Worst value is on the smaller tubs like that. Freight is still the same, step still costs same, same chemical kit. Delivery might be 3 guys instead of 4
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Every manufacturer inflates their MSRP to an extent. The reputable manufacturers not so much. Caldera is a reputable manufacturer. To be more direct, my original point should have been taken as this: Every hot tub manufacturer has multiple lines of spas at varying price points. MSRP is irrelevant because you cannot find posted MSRP on most brands and the dealer sets the price based on their cost of the hot tub and accessories but also their cost of doing business and what the local market allows. Most dealers are out to make business sustaining profits, not screw the customer.
The only options that matter is whats available to you locally and at the prices your dealers offer. This forum is great for information and to encourage an educated consumer. We are not selling to you, just providing our time and knowledge.
As for the Aventine, my bottom is $4699 + tax and that includes hot tub, cover, basic step, chemical, and local delivery. I'm going to want cash/check at that price since credit card will cost me at least $100 in processing fees. There are costs associated with everything that goes along with any hot tub that is above and beyond the cost of the hot tub which is what an MSRP includes. Hottubguy is also on the east coast so his freight costs are even more because Caldera ships from the west coast.
This is not the auto industry and cars don't sell at MSRP. There is a reason there are always rebates and sales. If you don't want to negotiate, that fine. Look up your local options, find a few hot tubs that may interest you. Visit each dealer and politely inform them that you want their one and only best price. If it's meant to be then its meant to be. When a dealer will let you walk away, then you know it's their lowest price. You can take it or leave it.
Non-negotiated pricing only works if everyone does it. I have tried it in the past and it is always the same result. My competitors all have negotiable prices. I don't. The customer doesn't know this and gets upset when I am firm and the guy down the road drops $500 - $2000 off his price. Customer sees big savings and many times that's all they see. I was honest, nice, had an equal or better product. What I didn't have was the "SALE" so they bought where they thought they were getting the best deal. And unlike the auto industry, there is not the wealth on reputable online facts, knowledge, information on hot tubs like there is cars.
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Someone online is saying they sell those for $2,699 less than MSRP (or $3400 it seems). But while I understand that there could be differences in options and services, dealers shouldn't be contradicting the manufacturer on this one, at least. As if they put those ranges out there just to make themselves look bad... all be it in a shiny way. ;)
Otherwise, if they were really throwing in every tub other than their own into that range, then it should have started at $2200 for something like the Hudson Bay spas, I suppose. Or they want the sticker shock to be a mere $1000 more than expected (just to make you go look, and say well shit)!
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Someone online is saying they sell those for $2,699 less than MSRP (or $3400 it seems). But while I understand that there could be differences in options and services, dealers shouldn't be contradicting the manufacturer on this one, at least. As if they put those ranges out there just to make themselves look bad... all be it in a shiny way. ;)
Otherwise, if they were really throwing in every tub other than their own into that range, then it should have started at $2200 for something like the Hudson Bay spas, I suppose. Or they want the sticker shock to be a mere $1000 more than expected (just to make you go look, and say well shit)!
How is it contradicting the manufacturer? If you want the tub and cover come pick it up for 4000. The rest of that stuff is extra. You would have to be a idiot for selling that tub for &3400. As a business owner I give very competitive pricing but I also have 23 employees that need to get paid. Trucks that need to be bought, rent that needs to be paid and all other kinds of expenses. If I didn't feel like making money I would sit T home everyday rather then working 70-80 a week
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Yeah, I'd pick something smallish up myself for $1000, as long as they didn't say it voided the warranty, otherwise I think the delivery service is included in the warranty. Although, you initially said that maybe someone else would sell it for what the manufacturer suggested its starting price was, so it's at least a contradiction of contexts there. But I'm not trying to argue, just looking at tubs (no big deal).
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Yeah, I'd pick something smallish up myself for $1000, as long as they didn't say it voided the warranty, otherwise I think the delivery service is included in the warranty. Although, you initially said that maybe someone else would sell it for what the manufacturer suggested its starting price was, so it's at least a contradiction of contexts there. But I'm not trying to argue, just looking at tubs (no big deal).
Warranty has nothing to do with delivery. If someone waved 4000 at me and was picking it up and I didn’t have to include anything else I might entertain it if it was something in stock that I had for a bit. I’ve had a few people pick that tub up and I think I’ve sold it for 4400-4500 that way before. Problem with pricing is dealer A might buy tubs a truckload at a time. You save on freight and upfront pric8ng that way. Dealer B buys tubs as he’s sold them. The beginning costs are different so naturally there would be a different number each dealer needs to sell for. Even when I purchase by the truckload I’m still paying $425 per spa in shipping only. Someone on the west coast is paying half that. That why Hot tub pricing is all over the map. Plus we have to cover the tubs 8n the field for the warranty. Anybody in the business knows doing warranty work is a losing proposition. I pay my employees more then I get back on warranty claims. I carry Calder, Marquis and Nordic. One of the main reasons I carry those brands is due to the fact that there are very few warranty claims.
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I don't see that it's all over the map, because it isn't even on the map, other than mostly online tubs which may be half as much (or so, tax free with free delivery), so it seems preposterous when an expectation of double that for dealer costs on a similar tub (not necessarily more than twice as good) is considered a pipe dream. To say well shipping costs a couple hundred more coast to coast doesn't account for a huge difference, so it shouldn't be inconceivable to give price ranges within a couple hundred between dealers nation wide, which I think is what Caldera did with their buying guide, and dealers upping the price of little tubs to cover the discounts on larger ones seems to be a bit over the top. The value tubs don't have much of a warranty, and I'd rather not pay for someone elses better warranty in the price of those. It's like, meet me halfway... not just get me in the door to say it costs halfway more. Anyway, I didn't make this stuff up, and if they want me to think there are value models out there, I'm looking for value, naturally. If it isn't true, oh well (I'm not redefining value as luxury because someone throws the word "sale" out there on whatever else). Like I said, those so-called value models are already about twice as much as something with similar components and materials (which could be found somewhere), based on the one buying guide, so it would seem fair to me for the extra convenience and perhaps quality, but not as a decoy so that dealers could shoot my expectations down, as it were—I thought I was being just as generous as they were being upfront, for considering one that costs more locally, but only within reason (of a reasonablly better value at $4000 than those around $2000), and I'm not getting reasons other than why any size tub, especially a small one, should cost much much more than the connotations of value-pricing at the dealer level. Maybe I'll be met halfway though, except for there not being price ranges for the most part, which indicates that it's less likely.
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I don't see that it's all over the map, because it isn't even on the map, other than mostly online-only tubs which may be half as much (or so, tax free with free delivery), so it seems preposterous when an expectation of double that for dealer costs on a similar tub (not necessarily more than twice as good) is considered a pipe dream. To say well shipping costs a couple hundred more coast to coast doesn't account for a huge difference, so it shouldn't be inconceivable to give price ranges within a couple hundred between dealers nation wide, which I think is what Caldera did with their buying guide, and dealers upping the price of little tubs to cover the discounts on larger ones seems to be a bit over the top. The value tubs don't have much of a warranty, and I'd rather not pay for someone elses better warranty in the price of those. It's like, meet me halfway... not just get me in the door to say it costs halfway more. Anyway, I didn't make this stuff up, and if they want me to think there are value models out there, I'm looking for value, naturally. If it isn't true, oh well (I'm not redefining value as luxury because someone throws the word "sale" out there on whatever else). Like I said, those so-called value models are already about twice as much as something with similar components and materials (which could be found somewhere), based on the one buying guide, so it would seem fair to me for the extra convenience and perhaps quality, but not as a decoy so that dealers could shoot my expectations down, as it were—I thought I was being just as generous as they were being upfront, for considering one that costs more locally, but only within reason (of a reasonablly better value at $4000 than those around $2000), and I'm not getting reasons other than why any size tub, especially a small one, should cost much much more than the connotations of value-pricing at the dealer level. Maybe I'll be met halfway though, except for there not being price ranges for the most part, which indicates that it's less likely.
That buying guide is for hot tubs in general. Not caldera Spas. That's the biggest point you are missing
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That buying guide is for hot tubs in general. Not caldera Spas. That's the biggest point you are missing
I already addressed that (it doesn't generally include all spas in that price range, because some are half as much, for being more similar than different), and it doesn't help matters to say that the point is to be misleading otherwise, or what's your point? Like I said, if they want me to think their tubs are value priced, as such, I'll entertain the thought of it, and if nobody else wants to play along, I'll look at something else (or already did that too).
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Specs are irrelevant when comparing prices. I've sold hot tubs for almost 17 years. I have sold top-tier brands over the last 4 years (Hot Spring, Caldera, and Marquis) and prior it was either brands that were regional (lesser known) or middle of the road (Saratoga, Great Lakes, Coast Spas, Sunrise) and a low-quality brand in Cal Spas. There is a reason quality brands cost more. Its because they are better quality, will last longer, and support the dealer and consumer.
10 years ago Cal Spas could offer an 8'x8' spa with 60 + jets, 3 pumps, circulation pump, full foam, and a 5-year warranty for less money than I pay for a Hot Spring Jetsetter today. How is that? Lower quality cabinet that looks bad after a few years in the elements, full foam was not as much foam, super low quality cover, unreliable pumps, don't pay out on warranty claims and build a spa that is meant to last 5-8 years, not 15+. But to the uneducated consumer, the Cal Spa was a tremendous value and the more expensive spa was overpriced or the consumer was being gouged.
Also, in regards to your reference last night about the auto industry comparison. This is a much smaller industry and a much less mature industry. Your never going to find an accurate price guide like you are looking for.
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I'm not looking here so much as giving anyone else the opportunity to introduce their value spas to me (in case I missed something), although if there is no such thing, then no wonder. If you want to say that one kind lasts twice as long, but costs three times as much, yet the warranties probably don't extend that far on either, I just don't get it.
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If you want value and not roto-molded, then Nordic and Viking are good options. Maybe the South Seas brand from Artesian.
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What is it that you are looking for? You never actually say that either. By the sound of it you are looking for the cheapest possible spa you can buy. Why not look at some us3d stuff
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Oh okay, if you'd rather unread what I wrote, then who's on first?
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If you want value and not roto-molded, then Nordic and Viking are good options. Maybe the South Seas brand from Artesian.
'k
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You said smallish under 32”. How many people are using it? Is it for more therapy? What is the price range you are trying to stay in. The only thing I got from your post is small and cheap. Maybe I misread what you are looking for
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The premise was that the value-price range was defined as starting at $4000, and I didn't define that, so don't call me cheap, and so on, and so forth (but never mind, it's obviously too complicated to discuss). Thanks anyway.
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Value priced is $4k -$7k in my opinion excluding roto-molded spas. Your options at the bottom of the price segment will always be limited. Move up to the $5k-$6k range and the options will triple.
I don’t see anyone calling you cheap but your comments come across as defensive and sarcastic to me. Go visit some dealers and see what’s available. No point in getting worked up about anything.
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so it seems preposterous when an expectation of double that for dealer costs on a similar tub (not necessarily more than twice as good)
Here's where your flawed. If an online tub deteriorates and is no longer cost effective to repair at 8 years and a dealer tub that cost twice as much or more lasts for 16 years, and if you used less electricity and had fewer problems. Are online purchased tubs such a good deal?
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Value priced is $4k -$7k in my opinion excluding roto-molded spas.
Thanks, that sounds interesting... lol.
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I am going to be the ass here and say you are a BTM feeder. You are trying to compare a high quality spas with a cheap price internet spa. Your here trying to argue that dealers are getting rich off selling nice spas at a high profit margin. Sorry, but that is just not the case with really good dealers out there that sell high end brand spa's.
Maybe you should look at the spa's in a box on Ebay. Really high quality with a btm feeder budget..
Sorry to be rude, but not really. Good luck to you!
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I am going to be the ass here...
Okay ass, if you don't want to answer the question, then pull my finger!
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What is your specific question then?
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I am going to be the ass here...
Okay ass, if you don't want to answer the question, then pull my finger!
You haven’t asked a question. Not sure why you even joined this forum.
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You haven’t asked a question. Not sure why you even joined this forum.
I know, it's crazy (or now I know). That will do, thanks.
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What is your specific question then?
I want a BMW at the price of a Geo metro, because the BMW is the same quality as the Metro and the dealer is just marking up the price.
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Not that anyone seems to be interested, for the most part, but here's a link to that Hot Tub Pricing Guide:
https://www.calderaspas.com/how-much-does-hot-tub-cost
Value-Priced Hot Tubs - $4,000 - $8,000
"The best value-priced hot tub models will have excellent performance but few showy bells and whistles—not the other way around."
So I was thinking that since small to large hot tubs are in this category, then a small one would start at $4000. Too much to ask? Kiss my ass.
No offense, but the argument to the contrary is that I have nothing to base such an inclination on, except a personal problem (talk about low), and if there's only one tub that fits this description, so be it, I'm only looking for one.
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So go out and visit a few dealers and get pricing. Or email them and get pricing. I'm sure they will be thrilled to deal with a person like you
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Wondertubs, the dealers on this forum are trying to be helpful. You just seem like a jerk.
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Whatever, I didn't start it. Just asked a simple question. Go figure... they won't even acknowledge that I asked a question. Did you read that? Well don't start now (we wouldn't want to ruin a perfectly retarded response record here, as far as being disagreable over nothing).
Well, maybe I'll suspend my disbelief and check back in a few days, weeks, months to see if someone has specific suggestions for spa models in this imaginary category. That's all I really care to discuss, so the rest is for your entertainment (I think it's getting boring, but that's just me).
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Wondertubs, the dealers on this forum are trying to be helpful. You just seem like a jerk.
Yes but people who act like this are always blinded and unable to see how they're acting. It reminded me of flights I've taken where you see someone act like a jerk to the flight attendants because they feel that their ticket entitles them somehow while the rest of us see the attendants as someone trying to be helpful to us so we treat them with a degree of respect.
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If you want an entry level 2-3 person spa for under $5k and not roto-molded, your options are limited, at least from quality manufacturers. Hot Spot SX, Caldera Aventine, Nordic Stella, Viking Aurora 2/3/P/PSL, South Seas 521L or 617C should all be available under $5k, but price again depends on what the dealer is offering for accessories, what options it was ordered with, and sometimes how badly they want to make a sale.
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If you want an entry level 2-3 person spa for under $5k and not roto-molded, your options are limited, at least from quality manufacturers. Hot Spot SX, Caldera Aventine, Nordic Stella, Viking Aurora 2/3/P/PSL, South Seas 521L or 617C should all be available under $5k, but price again depends on what the dealer is offering for accessories, what options it was ordered with, and sometimes how badly they want to make a sale.
Good, thanks.
Your never going to find an accurate price guide like you are looking for.
I was going to give this a rest, but also found the Hot Tub Spa Manufacturer's Comparison Chart (http://www.poolandspa.com/page958.htm), which gives price ranges too, although they may be a little dated (since the Caldera are said to start at $3000 there, and relative to the Bullfrog mentioned in another topic, I guess they've all gone up around $1000 since).
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Did anyone ask about what dealers and manufacturers are even in his area? I tried to read through all of this and its so convoluted at this point I am just starting from scratch.
Wondertubs- Identify the brands in your area, based on local dealers who will your support long-term (speaking in terms of warranty and chemical help, etc) and see what brands are available in the price range you're comfortable with. Its the best way to take the big mess that is hot tub sales and to streamline and simplify the process.
From there, research the dealers and see who is reputable. Sit in the tubs empty to get a feel for what tub(s) is/are the best fit for you personally and check out the pricing and features. From there, come back to the forum and we can help you sift through what you whittled down.
Maybe this is the better way- Instead of asking people's opinions about hot tubs, find out what you're able to personally buy and present some of the units that are available to you specifically.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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Thanks, but I'm not really looking for help in not finding a pricing guide, you see? Feel free not to comment about not finding any price ranges, thanks again. I mean the ones I've found (or comments to that effect) are fine, if that's about it. Just wondering... and really, I shouldn't have to ask, so if I can avoid going there (or more than one place in person), I just might. Obviously they know they're going to turn off a number of people by not giving price ranges, just like evangalists don't appel to everyone (and I didn't decide on my religion by going to a church or several of them either). I'm just comparing notes on hot tubs though (which is really for someone else), not asking for "help" myself, thanks for the info. I've read several topics here and elsewhere, so I'm familiar with the concept in general. Price is a factor, like other specifications, and it doesn't happen to be specified as often, unlike most things out there. But I'll take that into consideration upfront too, as there is some information out there, so obviously it isn't just me looking into that.
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WOW :o I would say good luck to you then. See ya, adios, don't let the door hit you in the ass ect,ect..
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Thanks, but I'm not really looking for help in not finding a pricing guide, you see? Feel free not to comment about not finding any price ranges, thanks again. I mean the ones I've found (or comments to that effect) are fine, if that's about it. Just wondering... and really, I shouldn't have to ask, so if I can avoid going there (or more than one place in person), I just might. Obviously they know they're going to turn off a number of people by not giving price ranges, just like evangalists don't appel to everyone (and I didn't decide on my religion by going to a church or several of them either). I'm just comparing notes on hot tubs though (which is really for someone else), not asking for "help" myself, thanks for the info. I've read several topics here and elsewhere, so I'm familiar with the concept in general. Price is a factor, like other specifications, and it doesn't happen to be specified as often, unlike most things out there. But I'll take that into consideration upfront too.
I am not sure I follow any of this but indeed good luck moving forward.
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WOW :o
Why is that a wow? Doesn't the title define the topic? Anyway, I'd look forward to discussing more about hot tubs in person if people were upfront with me, but maybe I'm funny that way... "everybody funny, now you funny too".
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WOW :o
Why is that a wow? Doesn't the title define the topic? Anyway, I'd look forward to discussing more about hot tubs in person if people were upfront with me, but maybe I'm funny that way... "everybody funny, now you funny too".
Its not the title of the thread that is the issue here.
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Its not the title of the thread that is the issue here.
Well it should be. Thank you,
I was going to give this a rest, but also found the Hot Tub Spa Manufacturer's Comparison Chart (http://www.poolandspa.com/page958.htm)...
thankyouverymuch.
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Its not the title of the thread that is the issue here.
Well it should be. Thank you,
I was going to give this a rest, but also found the Hot Tub Spa Manufacturer's Comparison Chart (http://www.poolandspa.com/page958.htm)...
thankyouverymuch.
I wonder if those stars are paid for in that guide? Oh wait, yes they are.
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I’ve never recommended this before but someone like you should purchase a tub online. Everybody has tried helping you and all you do is give smart@ss replies. I can’t imagine trying to deal with someone like you in person
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Help me what... pretend that a manufacturer didn't give a price range in the first place, which the clearly did? That's good one, never gets old either.
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I wonder if those stars are paid for in that guide? Oh wait, yes they are.
I didn't pay much attention to that, and checked out all of those names, whether or not they were linked. Some no longer seem to exist, and one was particularly screwy, in that they wouldn't even tell you where the dealers were unless you filled out a form, so there are more ridiculous things than leaving out the price ranges. Like I said, between that and comments which at least hinted at makes and models, I appreciate the info. Enough said, unless someone has more to add to the list. Thanks in advance, then. ;)
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Okay, again what exactly, I mean exactly do you want? You want a spa, you want a price on a specific spa, you pricing a spa out for someone other than you? Are you actually in the market for a spa? Or you writing a book or putting up a video on YouTube on how hot tub forums and dealers are misleading on pricing and information?
Out of all your post here, you make no sense.
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I give you guys credit for continuing to engage in this fruitless attempt to help.
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I give you guys credit for continuing to engage in this fruitless attempt to help.
I gave up. Obvious clown show. Who knows why he is really here. Reminds me of a Master spa salesmen.
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Or a you tuber that did a odd spa video on the 16th. Joins on the 13th, started posting on the 18th. I don't know, he could be legit. In however many years I have been here, we have had some strange one's. This guy gets the Oscar.
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Or a you tuber that did a odd spa video on the 16th. Joins on the 13th, started posting on the 18th. I don't know, he could be legit. In however many years I have been here, we have had some strange one's. This guy gets the Oscar.
Ditto!
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Okay, again what exactly, I mean exactly do you want? You want a spa, you want a price on a specific spa, you pricing a spa out for someone other than you? Are you actually in the market for a spa? Or you writing a book or putting up a video on YouTube on how hot tub forums and dealers are misleading on pricing and information?
Out of all your post here, you make no sense.
Bueller, Bueller?
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Huh? Nothing like a bunch of clowns calling me one for looking into hot tubs, really? Alrighty, but I don't think I'll be walking into a clown tent otherwise.
Looks like Jacuzzi is pulling the same nonsense, they also have a pricing guide, and say their entry-level tubs are $4000-$7999. Then are offering up to $2000 off MSRP for the holidays, so I'm thinking okay, maybe the smallest one in that category would be $4000 after $2000 off MSRP. You think? Nope, not even close. The MSRP on that is close to $7000! They have nothing starting at what they say their own price ranges are, and apparently only throw that out there to lure you to a dealer. Well, that's up to them, but I have zero confidence in whatever else they claim at this point.
Here's another Hot Tub Comparison Chart (https://hottubinsider.com/guides/comparison-chart/), for reference (in case anyone else was wondering). Happy holidays.
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You gotta give it a rest. The industry is what it is and if you don’t agree, then that’s fine. Millions of hot tubs have been sold over the last 30+ years and millions more will be over the next 30 years. As long as a dealer is not selling above the MSRP, then they are doing nothing wrong. MSRP means Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price, which as the name implies, means the manufacturer can set the retail price at whatever they want and the product can be sold at any price equal to or below.
Instead of this back and forth banter which is not accomplishing anything, either go visit some dealers and find a hot tub that fits your wants, needs and budget, or move along and let us help others who want and welcome the help.
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So you think it's okay that the manufacturers are putting out fake price guides? That was the point of the discussion (if it could be taken at face value), and unfortunately it looks like a bold faced lie, trending even. I'm not glad to hear that you're all okay with this. But if you'd rather introduce me to the wonderful world of hot tubs that way, I don't know who you thought you were talking to, because it isn't me. Maybe the inflated MSRPs would or wouldn't turn a number of people off in general, but to add insult to injury, I think those fake price ranges, direct from the manufacturer, are going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. Such enthusiasm for lying is supposed to be lost in translation somewhere (other than "we got you coming and going"), I guess. Whatever floats your boat. ::)
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So you think it's okay that the manufacturers are putting out fake price guides? That was the point of the discussion, and unfortunately it looks like a bold faced lie, trending even. I'm not glad to hear that you're all okay with this. But if you'd rather introduce me to the wonderful world of hot tubs that way, I don't know who you thought you were talking to, because it isn't me. Maybe the inflated MSRPs are going to turn a number of people off in general, but to add insult to injury, I think those fake price ranges, direct from the manufacturer, are going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. Such enthusiasm for lying is supposed to be lost in translation somewhere I guess. Whatever floats your boat. ::)
Wait, didn't you post previously that you were leaving this site right after you were exposed?
You should create a Youtube video to cover this artocity to go along with all your other propaganda videos.
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So you think it's okay that the manufacturers are putting out fake price guides? That was the point of the discussion (if it could be taken at face value), and unfortunately it looks like a bold faced lie, trending even. I'm not glad to hear that you're all okay with this. But if you'd rather introduce me to the wonderful world of hot tubs that way, I don't know who you thought you were talking to, because it isn't me. Maybe the inflated MSRPs would or wouldn't turn a number of people off in general, but to add insult to injury, I think those fake price ranges, direct from the manufacturer, are going waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. Such enthusiasm for lying is supposed to be lost in translation somewhere (other than "we got you coming and going"), I guess. Whatever floats your boat. ::)
Yet the auto industry inflates their MSRP and offer a different rebate every month, or week, or holiday, or whatever occasion they want. And the used car industry, everything is negotiable. Do you not buy a car because of this?
And no one here went out looking for you, you found this forum. Move along. No one here is forcing you to look at and buy a hot tub.
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Happy holidays.
Once again, since everyone wants to agree to disagree, and even make up reverse conspiracy theories (resembling a straw man (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) argument), or simply repeat themselves, I'll repeat this (even if only I find it to be agreeable). Happy holidays. :)
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If you are a Costco member and you are lucky enough to stumble on a road show selling a TX (Hot Spring value priced 2 person spa), you can buy it for the price point you are looking for. A Costco road show is a totally different business model than dealer. Costco has no inventory. They never touch the spa.