Hot Tub Forum
Brand Specific Forums => Hot Spring Spas => Topic started by: dunecritter on February 12, 2014, 10:56:45 am
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My new 2013 Grandee ACE Salt system . I'm going to post my real life personal results as we go...The claims to the Ace system are: Easy water care, Clean and clear water, No chemical smell and no itchy irritated dry skin. Don't have to add sanitizer after every use. and a few other claims as well.
First start up: This tub was new and installed mid October. I added the recommended amount of salt at time of fill up and the Vanishing act water softener pillow. I noticed my on screen display after 24 hours and reaching temp of 102 was showing in the RED. But my test strips for PPM of salt showed ok??...I drained 30% of the tubs water and topped off without adding any salt and the screen display under water care was now showing exactly in the middle of the GREEN. I did not use the tub the first day but I did get in it the second. At this point I can only say that there was no smell and the water did in fact feel like soft silky smooth water kinda like a shower with a soft water system trying to rinse off the soap. The biggest difference that I noticed tho was the water actually kinda "Fizzled" while jet pumps are on. This is something new...The water just kinda pops like the surface of a freshly poured soda in a glass of ice. This was different and actually very kool I think.
Now at just over four and a half months of normal 4-5 times a week, 2-3 people on average use: I have had to add PH down 4 times so far as my PH levels tend to creep up every 4 or so weeks. The sanitizer levels are exactly where they should be according to the test strips. We have hard water here in AZ and the Vanishing act pillow was a good tool. I have never used one before but it did in fact change my water hardness according to the test strips. I have cleaned my filters every month with the hose and not yet cleaned the salt cell.
Now the visuals and the smells: No smells what so ever at this point and the water clarity is as clear as the day I filled it. Usually without the Ace system I would be changing my water around this point of 4 months.
So far so good. I have saved myself from adding chemicals to sanitize on average 60 plus times after each use ( Saved 4 hours so far!!! think about that! That's roughly a savings of my personal time assuming it would take me 4 min to get chemicals out...add them and put things away. I think that's fair enough to claim), I have saved myself from manually adding chlorine to shock the water 16 plus times so far. (That's another hour of my time! assuming it still took me 4 min each time I had to open up the tub, Turn on the clean cycle ,add chemicals, test and close up and put everything away.) But most important to me...I'm getting more life from my water...I'm not sure just how long I will be able to stretch this water before I feel that it needs to be changed out but at this rate I have huge hopes and I think it will be a reality, so This is actually why I'm doing this post/Review in my real life experience...Follow along and please post if you have found things to be different in your personal experience.
I don't care what one thinks (If you don't own one than you don't have the right to disagree with my results) and what the rumors are or have been. This is my real life in use experience this far. I will post to keep everyone up to date on my results good and bad.
Just so everyone knows...I sell HS products, I'm not paid by anyone at HS/Watkins to write this post and I could care less what other manufactures have to say about the ACE system (No other manufacture has it) This My real life personal results.
Here are a few pics I took the other nite to show the clarity at 4 plus months old.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140207_053001_zps47df4aa8.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/bzyguy01/media/20140207_053001_zps47df4aa8.jpg.html)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140207_052942_zps29f8a689.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/bzyguy01/media/20140207_052942_zps29f8a689.jpg.html)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140207_052850_zpsc8a19024.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/bzyguy01/media/20140207_052850_zpsc8a19024.jpg.html)
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My water is just as clear at four + months using the ozone, silver ion & chlorine method. However, I do like the idea of the Ace system and not having to add chlorine after every use. I find that if I don't add it, I have cloudy water the next day after use. Even if I'm not using the spa due to extreme cold, I still have to bundle up, open up the cover and add chlorine or it will cloud up on me after a few days. I have been thinking about adding the Ace system to my spa down the road, and enjoyed your post and will follow to see how it works for you going forward. Have you had to supplement with any chlorine? I've heard mixed messages about this.
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Girlinhotwater...I think your in the top 30 percent of hot tub owners that actually follow the rules of treating your water correctly! Good for you....
I personally have not added any supplemental chlorine what so ever since fill up on day one...I keep my usage level at #4. The system allows you to adjust it to your personal use levels ranging from 0 (off) all the way up to 10 for heavier use. The system also has a "Boost" button that you can turn on that will over produce sanitizer kinda like manually adding chlorine to shock the water after a very heavy out of normal use sitting. The system will return to your programmed setting after it finishes a boost cycle.
I did hear of someone using their spa after fill up immediately with the ACE System once the tub came to temperature and claimed that the water got cloudy the next day....But I think this was a result of using the tub before it had a chance to produce any sanitizer...Maybe the boost button would have corrected that? Regardless, I have been told that you can manually add chlorine at time of fill up and let it burn out and let the ACE System take over from there...
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I've been asked the questions about upfront costs and how long will it take to overcome the upfront cost versus the standard Ozone, Silver Ion, Bottled Chlorine setup.
Personally I don't feel that you will ever truly come out on top or spend less over time (out of pocket anyway) on the ACE system. ....Chlorine setup based on 50-60 dollars a year on chemicals, 3 replacement Silver Ion Cartridges, and I'm throwing in a bottle of foam down. Roughly $180 bucks a year...Times five years=$900 Bucks. So one might think that they are catching up but not really...The cell has a limited life expectancy of 3-6 years depending on maintenance and usage and how many times you boost the system. So altho you may have temporarily caught up to a simple out of pocket wash after 5-6 years as far as cost is concerned....Them bam...Time to buy a new cell! So It's not my opinion that ACE will ever be cheaper....Just better and more convenient....And lets not forget about Going GREEN! My time is worth ALOT to me especially with my young son at home. So spending a lot less time adding chemicals and changing my water less is important to me myself.
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How much cost the ACE System If a buyer want to add it to their spa ?
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I have heard upwards of 1500. I think it's a cool system/sales tool and told the powers to be at Jacuzzi to come up with something to offer SW wise but they never will. It also has it's pro and cons, I don't believe one of the pro's is it saves you time from adding chemicals and or having to drain your spa on a regular basis. It really doesn't take that long to drain a spa or deal with the chems on a spa without a salt system.. I have two kids at home with 6 acres of property to maintain along with a spa, and I have more than enough time to spend with my kids.. What I would like is more time and better weather to go golfing ;D
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Ryan...you know already regardless what I post.
Jim....your about right on pricing plus or minus depending on dealer and the deal struck. It HAS saved me from adding any chemicals after use (60 plus) times so far and weekly chemical adds. But its unfair of me not to mention once a week checking the water with my strips. that takes me a few min...It also in fact does save me time on changing the water...Jim, you say it doesn't take much time to change the water?? What do you use? A fire truck to fill and an elephant to drain?....It takes me almost 2 hours....I Drain with my large Sump pump with a large 2" hose, and I fill with two hoses, clean filters (which is needed regardless) add salt and ph down. run a clean cycle and re check water. Lets not forget the overall cost for the water...I have a private water company and they believe their water is from the fountain of youth with what they charge me for it. As far as how much time you want to spend with your kids???....I'll leave that alone!!! ;D ;D ;D That was just a joke Jim! >:(
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Ryan...you know already regardless what I post.
Jim....your about right on pricing plus or minus depending on dealer and the deal struck. It HAS saved me from adding any chemicals after use (60 plus) times so far and weekly chemical adds. But its unfair of me not to mention once a week checking the water with my strips. that takes me a few min...It also in fact does save me time on changing the water...Jim, you say it doesn't take much time to change the water?? What do you use? A fire truck to fill and an elephant to drain?....It takes me almost 2 hours....I Drain with my large Sump pump with a large 2" hose, and I fill with two hoses, clean filters (which is needed regardless) add salt and ph down. run a clean cycle and re check water. Lets not forget the overall cost for the water...I have a private water company and they believe their water is from the fountain of youth with what they charge me for it. As far as how much time you want to spend with your kids???....I'll leave that alone!!! ;D ;D ;D That was just a joke Jim! >:(
I honestly dont know how much it is sold over here , How would you compare this system to the gecko in.clear system ?
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What I do is hook the hose up to the drain, start draining. I then go do what ever it is that I usually have to do, mow the lawn or something that might be on the honey do list, because I don't stand there and watch the water come out of the hose.
I comeback after awhile and throw the hose in and start filling, take the spare set of two filters I have ready to go (not 5 that the Grande has :P) and replace them. I then come back after about 35min as I am on a well and have great pressure. turn the power back on and spa starts heating... As far as balancing I toss in a cap of chlorine and call it good.. Wait a day or so till I check the PH/alk which is always high because of the well water.. Drop it to a acceptable range and good to go again for another 7 to 9 months.. When it's time to change it again. Sometimes I do it at the 6 month mark. So yeah for me it's pretty easy. Considering spas have been around without a salt system for a very long time I just don't see changing water as a huge issue for most. Not knocking it as I do think its a nice system compared to the likes of the gecko salt generator, just not 1500 bucks cool. Now if I were an average consumer in the market for a spa and HS was offering it for free then sure why wouldn't I, until I found out after 3 or 4 years I had to send 500 bucks to replace the diamond coated plates...
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In.clear from gecko is a Bromine generator . When BromiCharge is added to the water, it separates into sodium ions and bromide ions. As the water passes through the in.clear bromine generator, a low-voltage source supplies a current that electrolytically reduces the bromine ions into bromine which reacts with the water molecules to form free bromine. Bromine is known to be a highly effective bactericide and algaecide. This process releases bromide ions back into the water for continuous recycling until the the spa is emptied. It is important to note that the amount of bromine needed will vary in direct proportion to the number of bathers in the spa (bather load).
it works very well when you set up it right , since I havent tried the Ace system what would be the major diffrence . Can anyone explain please ?
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Changing the water is a bigger deal for the average homeowner and most don't enjoy it nor have time to mow 6 acres alone! ;) Regardless ...Before the ACE System I was also content with what it took from me to maintain healthy spa conditions and add chemicals including draining whenever needed as I've done more than 20 years now...I highly doubt many people are stretching their water changes to 9 months with standard chlorine ozone systems like yourself.. And that's great but I gotta remember to not join you in a Hot Tubbing event 8)..Maybee you're the one that actually owns the fountain of youth I've been paying for all this time...When were you gonna tell me?:( Draining....filling and a fresh set of filters....Start to finish= LONG TIME! I have better things to do....especially now that I know how much easier it can be owning the ACE System!
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Doesn't really matter either way does it??
And I only have to mow about an acre, I live in the Pacific Northwest and have more trees than grass.. I do however have a lot of really cool trails through the woods..
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Is it worth the upfront costs plus the replacement cell every couple of years though? Draining and refilling a hot tub is very easy plus with ace you need to drain almost as much. Aren't they still having a number of problems with the ace system? I have 2 hot springs dealers close by 1 pushes them and the other tells customers they aren't worth it. To me I think its a good idea albeit one that was pushed into the market far too early. For now I will stick to the old fashioned way of dichlor because to me it's rather easy
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This post makes much more sense now that I see your a hs dealer. You omitted that the first time I read this so I see you updated. You really should have put that in your sales spiel the first time lol
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This post makes much more sense now that I see your a hs dealer. You omitted that the first time I read this so I see you updated. You really should have put that in your sales spiel the first time lol
He is just sharing his real life experience :). The topic name has not been wisely choosen to appear in search engine aswell :p you are wise Shayne , Jeff made a good investment by hiring you.
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Nice review...we sell a lot of ACE but still plenty of people doing standard chlorine and/or silver ion...its nice to have various options to offer. As far as its cost it doesn't really bother me as I work in sales, If I can sell stereo upgrades (on a fairly regular basis mind you) on spas for $1,000 - $1,500+ I don't really see the point in getting bent out of shape on a similar priced item that is much more useful to the actual soaking experience in the spa than a stereo is
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Doesn't really matter either way does it??
And I only have to mow about an acre, I live in the Pacific Northwest and have more trees than grass.. I do however have a lot of really cool trails through the woods..
Sounds very nice!
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Is it worth the upfront costs plus the replacement cell every couple of years though? Draining and refilling a hot tub is very easy plus with ace you need to drain almost as much. Aren't they still having a number of problems with the ace system? I have 2 hot springs dealers close by 1 pushes them and the other tells customers they aren't worth it. To me I think its a good idea albeit one that was pushed into the market far too early. For now I will stick to the old fashioned way of dichlor because to me it's rather easy
That's the big question and I guess its a matter of what one's time is worth and also how well one can actually understand the water chemistry to correctly care for their water versus having the spare cash to pay for the convenience factor...I have heard that the ACE system when it was first released a few years ago that there were some issues no doubt.. In fact I have even heard from other retailers at the last show that the first release had issues...what issues I'm not sure but mostly were having some sort of an issue.. and they were staying clear of selling them until the bugs were worked out just like a brand new model car...never buy the first year out .Not sure what revision that is out right now as I've only been involved selling HS for 4 mos...actually only been selling them for two...the first two months I was bzy doing a tenant Improvement on a new retail store.
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This post makes much more sense now that I see your a hs dealer. You omitted that the first time I read this so I see you updated. You really should have put that in your sales spiel the first time lol
This is my original post non revised...The forum would show it if there had been any revisions what so ever...Maybe you just didn't have you glasses on??? Just Saying :o
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Nice review...we sell a lot of ACE but still plenty of people doing standard chlorine and/or silver ion...its nice to have various options to offer. As far as its cost it doesn't really bother me as I work in sales, If I can sell stereo upgrades (on a fairly regular basis mind you) on spas for $1,000 - $1,500+ I don't really see the point in getting bent out of shape on a similar priced item that is much more useful to the actual soaking experience in the spa than a stereo is
Thanks TwinCitiesHotSpring. I appreciate it. There are basically 6 members of our retail staff that get involved with selling tubs with the ACE option..The owner and myself are the only ones that do actually sell it. Why is that? Because we are the only two that actually own one with ACE. We sell it passionately!!!The owner has recently (6 Mos now) installed a new high life model equipped with the ACE in his home...He ranted and raved about it to me and actually stated he would never go back to a non ACE system. Knowing this guy you don't take that lightly...so I decided to jump on the band wagon and swap out my 2007 model Vista that I purchased from The owner years ago way before ever being involved in the HS Tub Business and try it for myself. I actually wanted to try a tub without the lounge anyway and I also really liked all the bling that my tub lacked that the newer models now have. After personally owning the ACE My opinion is that there is no better option that one can buy for the money...Even tho its still not cheap. But then again one doesn't buy a HS product because its cheap. The other sales staff are starting to pick up on the ACE thing now that we have installed it on some Hot Tubs on all of our showrooms and they have had a chance to actually experience how easy and effective it is for themselves.
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The In.clear is about the same product but instead of chlorine it release bromine wich is more stable and more effective in hot water . Chlorine is also less efficient when ph goes up . that being said , I have the in.clear installed on my Vortex Nitro and I love it . It is worth the investment like you said . we are normally selling this upgrade for 899 $ but right now we want our custumer to try it out so we are including it at no charge !
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Dune,
You mentioned in your opening post that no other manufacturer has the Ace system. Don't many have their own versions of a salt water system?
I shied away from them not only due to the initial cost, but from the problems many folks reportedly had with them. The high costs of the replacement cells added additional salt to the wound. (Damn, did I say that..) It sounds like it is working great for you, so your information is appreciated. If I sold hot tubs for a living and had access to a company repairman and (I assume) discounted cells, I might take a chance on one, as well. As it is though, I would rather take the $1500 and enjoy a weekend at a resort hotel in Atlantic City. :)
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Rosewood, I am not the know it all nor am I personally aware of any other manufacture that is selling a spa with a factory OEM manufactured Salt System...I was at our Annual Dealer Awards Ceremony last month and at that time It was still the word in the air that HS is still the only manufacture providing a Salt system OEM and warranted for use on the spa.... I have seen online a smaller system that is aftermarket and claims to be able to be added to any spa but it is a box that mounts on the outside of the spa cabinet and has lines that drape over the top side to another box on the interior?? Not sure completely and I know nothing about this unit...I have never personally seen one and have heard "Things" (Ill leave that alone)...but that is just hearsay. It is very inexpensive at an advertised price of @$189 online. Its called Saltron Mini Spa Salt System Chlorine Generator with Mineral Salts. I seen it on Spa depot. It may be great but who knows??? If someone has had experience...start a thread on it!
But I totally understand your concerns and This is why I am posting my review...So far so good and as of right now I'm very happy with mine...If it continues to provide me with the same results that I'm getting now...Its worth the money all day. (granted if I could afford the extra cost and the benefits) Simple as that. That is my opinion and I feel that my time is worth a lot...I know there are many that are happy doing what they have been doing for years and that's understandable. Besides, there are many people that feel that they have more time than money. I personally have neither! :-\ I hope everyone can understand why I chose to own and post here...I needed to know if it was all that it claims in order to endorse it and sell it.. If I didn't like it or it wasn't what it claimed...I wouldn't sell it. The last thing I want is an unhappy customer that purchased something I sold them telling them "I think" or "they say it does this". I know what it does...I OWN IT!. That's why I sell it.
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The In.clear is about the same product but instead of chlorine it release bromine wich is more stable and more effective in hot water . Chlorine is also less efficient when ph goes up . that being said , I have the in.clear installed on my Vortex Nitro and I love it . It is worth the investment like you said . we are normally selling this upgrade for 899 $ but right now we want our custumer to try it out so we are including it at no charge !
Not aware of your system nor do I know about better or worse when it comes to Bromine or chlorine. HS did a promotion at the end of 2013..They were giving away a free ACE System to anyone that purchased a High Life Tub for a very small limited time...I was told by the factory that they anticipated selling 300 units during this special event and were very surprised to have over 1200 units actually sold during this promotion for the free ACE! That's HUGE! But then again we are talking about a company that has over 800 plus dealers world wide and over ONE MILLION hot tubs in operation right now. These are facts and not assumptions...A fortune 500 company like HS does not make inaccurate claims .Just on a side note...When I visited HS Factory.. There were hot tubs stacked on top of tubs as far and wide as your eyes could see...The Manufacturing company is totally off the grid and actually produces their own power and are very big on the recycling process...Everything is recycled at HS. A was AMAZED...Truly a sight to see.
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Going to the HS factory sounds cool!
I'm a sucker for seeing how things are made.
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Arctic Spas offers a factory OEM installed salt system that is warrantied through Arctic Spas. To my knowledge, Arctic was the first manufacturer to offer their own system, and not a after market system.
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Arctic Spas offers a factory OEM installed salt system that is warrantied through Arctic Spas. To my knowledge, Arctic was the first manufacturer to offer their own system, and not a after market system.
I just went to the Arctic website and spoke with a "Krista" on live chat She did in fact verify this info...Apparently they do offer it OEM and warranty it through Arctic as well. Good info Water boy.
Have you had any experience as of yet with Arctic's salt system?
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Glad it's working well for you in the first 4 mos. Keep us posted. I have read mixed reviews, most complaints with the cells needing to be replaced and the expense (they only carry a one year warranty). Has anyone heard of any problems on using salt water? I'm only asking as I have had salt water aquariums and I have seen first hand what salt can do to components. I ran into one review on the HS site where customer had blisters and rust spots on their HS tub.
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Clearwater Spas does the Isis system OEM and warrants it through the factory.
As stated above, salt is corrosive. I have seen, first hand the damage that salt does to heating elements and other components. Also, you still need to balance and drain your water at approximately the same intervals. So basically all the salt system does is prevent you having to manually add chlorine. Tossing a capfull of dichlor in the water is not complicated or difficult. I would never pay $1500 plus the cost of replacement cells and the hassle of cleaning cells to avoid tossing a capful of dichlor it, especially considering the corrosive nature of the salt.
Your post sounds like damage control due to all of the complaints about the ACE system. Our local Hot Springs dealer likes to tout it as chemical free, or some other misrepresentation. For all of you reading this, salt is sodium chloride, which is sodium ions and chlorine ions. Salt systems simply turn the chloride ions into chlorine gas. As stated above it can be sodium bromide to bromine as well. You are basically paying a bunch of money for a chlorine or bromine generator.
No offense, but I don't think the ACE system is all that it's cracked up to be.
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Clearwater Spas does the Isis system OEM and warrants it through the factory.
As stated above, salt is corrosive. I have seen, first hand the damage that salt does to heating elements and other components. Also, you still need to balance and drain your water at approximately the same intervals. So basically all the salt system does is prevent you having to manually add chlorine. Tossing a capfull of dichlor in the water is not complicated or difficult. I would never pay $1500 plus the cost of replacement cells and the hassle of cleaning cells to avoid tossing a capful of dichlor it, especially considering the corrosive nature of the salt.
Your post sounds like damage control due to all of the complaints about the ACE system. Our local Hot Springs dealer likes to tout it as chemical free, or some other misrepresentation. For all of you reading this, salt is sodium chloride, which is sodium ions and chlorine ions. Salt systems simply turn the chloride ions into chlorine gas. As stated above it can be sodium bromide to bromine as well. You are basically paying a bunch of money for a chlorine or bromine generator.
No offense, but I don't think the ACE system is all that it's cracked up to be.
No Offense taken Sam.. You have your individual opinion as a non owner and have never used one personally...but you know Sam and that's great for you....And you can call it "damage control"..."Sales pitch".. Whatever you desire. Whatever makes you feel like your opinion should be the tell all. But ultimately if you have not owned it...Its nothing but your non experienced opinion. What's that worth? This is my experience regardless of what you might think and what you have "seen"....I'm Extatic with this system so far...It is still early (four and a half months) and I do have high hopes for it. I will keep all posted and I hope I don't eat my words in the near future. Everyone is surely entitled to his/hers own opinion for sure. I personally have never had an issue by the smell that I get in a hot tub that uses bottled chlorine ...Until Now that I don't have ANY smell using the ACE System...Im like a hound dog sniffing it out! I get around the hot tubs that do use chlorine and I can smell it a mile away...Kinda like a smoker and a non smoker thing. But If someone actually "OWNS" the new ACE system and thinks differently...Please post you issues...I know there were issues the first 2 years out but this is a new version that is on a new Grandee. Also...The ACE actually produces 5 different water sanitizing agents including Ozone being one of the 5....Do others? Do others use the Diamond technology or the titanium steel plates in the generator?? I don't know either...
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This thread was not started to "Convert" nor "Sell you"...A simple progress report on my ACE System. Because there are genuine curious onlookers and I'll post the results for them. Take it for what its worth...appreciate it or don't. Simple guys. But I don't care to hear it's no good or it doesn't work from people with no real life personal experience. So start your own thread telling people why YOU wouldn't want the ace system and how happy you are keeping things just as they have been since the first day a hot tub was built....By the way...Have you heard they actually put a man on the moon? WOW! Crazy how things change over time huh??? Same guy drives around in his ol truck or car and says look at that idiot in that POS Bently or Vette...Not worth the money he says... Then that guy blows by you with a smile on his face....Some people will pay for convenience if it works...Simple as that. I did and so far will do it again.
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It's what happens! You post something like that and you are going to get "opinions" like it or not, it is an open forum after all. If you don't want any of us to reply and wait for some happy go lucky person to come along looking for info on it and read it, that's fine they might. But don't get all worked up and what not when people that have been around here a lot longer, and in the industry longer then give their thoughts on the matter. You actually might gain something from it.
I get what your saying its just your own review, what I hear is a sales pitch from a salesman. Same thing I thought when I read your first post and said what I said. Turned out I was right. I see you posted in the review section, it's a good place for just that kind of post and you won't have to worry about us raining on your parade or kicking you off the soap box...
I honestly I am on pins and needles waiting to hear your review of no by-pass filtration. Been quite ahwile since we discussed that one. Of course there were way more people around here then, the neighborhood has seemed to go down hill lately.
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Dune,
I am very interested to see how the salt system works for you. When I bought my spa, there were many options I could have purchased. Each brought up the price of the hot tub considerably, so I chose only the extras that I really wanted.
One that was offered to me was Artic's, salt system. Here is the spiel I received from my salesman, a great guy by the way:
Onzen Salt Water system
The Onzen™ Salt Water System is Arctic Spas® proprietary salt water system that produces sanitizer from naturally sourced Dead Sea salts through electrolysis. Salt-water sanitizer generation has several advantages over traditional sanitizer methods. Firstly, sanitizer is created, rather than added to the system and so there is very little on-going cost related to this system. The sanitizer that is created is of a pure form and therefore is quite free of residual, resulting in much longer water lifespan. The resulting spa water is much more gentle to skin and eyes, and has a similar salinity to a human tear. Onzen™ has many unique features that have overcome previous challenges tied to salt water systems for spas. The first is that Onzen has a user-replaceable electrode cartridge. Electrolysis is a sacrificial process by definition – the electrodes will eventually deteriorate and require replacement. The replacement of the Onzen titanium electrode cartridge is a simple and inexpensive maintenance item that does not require the hot tub to be drained. The second key feature of Onzen is the ability to control the system either from the topside control, or via the Arctic Spas® Smart Phone App. This user adjustment can be used to match the sanitizer output of the Onzen system to the current, or anticipated bather load.
The use of the Onzen Salt Water system can significantly reduce the effort required to maintain clear and safe spa water, but we do suggest adding the Peak I or II ozone systems as well to maximize the benefit of the Onzen Salt Water system.
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The "Dead Sea Salt" diatribe was a bit for me to handle...
In the end, I decided not to step forward with it, although it was half the price mentioned here :).
I am interested in seeing how effective and reliable a system like this is, and may be interested in adding it in the future, so keep up the good work!
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Sorry Dune! I hope you keep us posted as I am more interested in the longevity as salt is corrosive no matter what form. I am all for making things easier, no smells, etc but not if I have to keep replacing things. I am als not a dealer and do not have access to discounted or free service/parts. I found out that Sundance used a salt system (ISO Pure System) in their tubs back in 1999 but discontinued it.
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Well Its been awhile since I've had a chance to hop in the tub (almost 2 weeks as I painted my home as I have been bzy with that and work) and I intentionally did nothing with it regarding to even opening the cover during this time. Well yesterday I opened the cover and tested my water with regular test strips and as expected...water was good...still clear with absolutely no smells to speak of...once tested I noticed the sanitizer levels were perfect and the softness was good but like normal.. The PH and Alk has creped up and required a touch of PH down to get it back in range. That's it, so far so good. I have yet to clean my cell (Manufacture recommends every 3 months and I'm at 5 months now) so I decided to dip the cell in a PH Down solution for a 10 Min and was surprised to see no bubbles from the cleaning process. I looked down the cell and I cannot see any deposit buildup on it yet so maybe It will be more necessary as the cell gets aged with more time/use in the water. One annoying thing as this was the first time cleaning the cell and I put too much water in the PH solution bottle so when I submerged the cell I had excess spillage...so I quickly grabbed the hose to dilute the solution. Clearly a rookie mistake that won't happen again.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140228_100501_zpse2a9c4c4.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/bzyguy01/media/20140228_100501_zpse2a9c4c4.jpg.html)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140228_100425_zps29e1e5bf.jpg) (http://s190.photobucket.com/user/bzyguy01/media/20140228_100425_zps29e1e5bf.jpg.html)
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I'm glad the system is working out well for you. There have been a few posts in this thread that I'd like to comment on.
First, the Hot Spring® ACE® Saltwater Sanitizing System is not just a saltwater chlorine generator so can't really be compared directly with those. Because of its boron-doped diamond electrodes, it generates not only chlorine but also hydroxyl radicals and other active oxygen species (as dunecritter noted). Ozone from an ozonator breaks down to produce hydroxyl radicals so in some ways one can see the ACE® system as a combination of a saltwater chlorine generator with an ozonator.
Second, it is not exactly true that bromine is more stable in hot water or more effective at higher pH. These statements are only true when chlorine is used in the water with no Cyanuric Acid (CYA). If there is CYA present, such as from the use of Dichlor, then this significantly lowers the active chlorine level reducing its rate of outgassing so that it lasts longer and it also buffers the active chlorine (hypochlorous acid) level against a change in pH. With no CYA in the water, going from a pH of 7.5 to 8.0 lowers the active chlorine level by 50%, but with 30-40 ppm CYA in the water the active chlorine level only drops by 15% (of course, it's also starting from a much lower level).
For the ACE® system or for any saltwater chlorine generator, it would be a good idea to use a small amount of CYA in the water (again, 30-40 ppm is reasonable) as this will lower the active chlorine level so that it oxidizes swimsuits, skin and hair more slowly, outgases more slowly, degrades hot tub covers more slowly, etc. 3 ppm FC with 30 ppm CYA even at hot 104ºF temperature has the same active chlorine level as 0.5 ppm FC with no CYA. You can, of course, try and maintain a very low FC level, but that's hard to do. It's easier to use CYA and let it buffer the chlorine level for you. The initial use of Dichlor when starting out added some CYA, but the CYA likely gets broken down over time where in a manually dosed hot tub using bleach the CYA loss is around 5 ppm per month. I don't know the loss rate in an ACE® hot tub.
Finally, you have minimal buildup on your plates due to keeping the CH low per ACE® instructions and the use of their Vanishing Act™ Calcium Remover, but for those who still have a problem the use of 50 ppm borates (usually added from boric acid) will not only slow down the rate of pH rise, but it will lower the rise in pH at the hydrogen gas generation plate by roughly half so helps prevent scaling.
There is a thread on another hot tub forum (not sure if I'm allowed to link to it so I won't unless someone official from this site says it's OK) that has reports from 13 ACE® owners plus dealer reports who have installed hundreds of them plus info from a Hot Springs® representative as well. The main problem is cells going out and this happened more frequently in earlier units. The majority of installations are without incident, but some people have cells go out in 6 months or a year. This doesn't seem to only be due to scaling as some owners were diligent about keeping calcium levels low and pH and TA in line.
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There is a thread on another hot tub forum (not sure if I'm allowed to link to it so I won't unless someone official from this site says it's OK) that has reports from 13 ACE® owners plus dealer report who have installed hundreds of them plus info from an Hot Springs® representative as well. The main problem is cells going out and this happened more frequently in earlier units. The majority of installations are without incident, but some people have cells go out in 6 months or a year. This doesn't seem to only be due to scaling as some owners were diligent about keeping calcium levels low and pH and TA in line.
I do not belong to any other Hot Tub forums nor have I searched for any other results else where other than on this forum. Chem Geek...Your a pleather of water wisdom and your input is appreciated.
So far so good...5 months now I have had excellent results with my ACE system and have followed the manufactures suggestions very closely other than stretching my cell cleaning two months over due. The only thing that I can see myself doing differently in the future as Chem Geek has already suggested earlier in this thread is the use of CYA to help with keeping the PH from rising so readily and the help with minimizing outgas. But for now I am testing the system as Hot Spring suggests to all users as this is how most will maintain theirs and I will know with my own personal experiences all good and bad (if any). I will admit that this is the longest I have ever stretched my water before feeling that It needed to be changed and for the simple fact that I let my tub go 2 weeks without any manual attention what so ever is great. My water truly looks, smells, no foaming and feels like it was just filled. I have had many soaks in it without adding one ounce of bottled sanitizer yet. I have only added PH down a handful of times over the past 5 months to my water and I really am loving it so far. I have not yet "Boosted" my cell and I am not going to unless I have a large group sitting in my Tub. If my cell lasts the estimated 3 plus years...Id buy it again without hesitation and as bzy as I get...Even if didn't Id buy it again regardless as My time is worth more to me (That's just me and my laziness)...Besides, It keeps my water soak ready at all times even If I was unable to add chemicals to a "Normal" bottled chlorine system and that's the best part. I will keep posting with future results.
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I have a question for you Dunecritter, I have a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign, that I do not have the salt system, it runs great, but i chose not having the salt system, due to the fact it was so new and chlorine definitely works and no issues to deal with like problems with hardware and running the system. My question, can I add a salt system to my Sovereign down the road, if I like and how hard is it to install, could I do it myself ? I don't think, I would want to, due to the fact , if it breaks, probably is not covered, let me know, thanks Kurt.
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I have a question for you Dunecritter, I have a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign, that I do not have the salt system, it runs great, but i chose not having the salt system, due to the fact it was so new and chlorine definitely works and no issues to deal with like problems with hardware and running the system. My question, can I add a salt system to my Sovereign down the road, if I like and how hard is it to install, could I do it myself ? I don't think, I would want to, due to the fact , if it breaks, probably is not covered, let me know, thanks Kurt.
You can get the ACE system back to 2010 HSS models. If you go before that, I believe there is a retrofit kit that goes back to 2006 or 2004... I can't remember.
You can install them yourself, as it's pretty easy. However, check the warranty just in case. As dunecritter has alluded to, make sure you start up right and you will have awesome success with the system!
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Creeping up on six months soon and still have Awesome results...I'm still amazed by the Ace water care...I've read recent posts about some people having issues with their Ace systems and just not sure what to think about their issues? Are they using it correctly? Have they been properly instructed on how to operate the Ace system on their tub? ...My partner has his Ace system going on 7 months now and feels exactly the same as I do with excellent results...I hope the system holds up as I have very high hopes for it. But my water is absolutely awesome and I'm not adding any bottled sanitizers or chemicals other than balancing my PH with PH Down a few times. So far so good! ;D
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Those Products are great when use corectly :)
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..... I'm not adding any bottled sanitizers or chemicals other than balancing my PH with PH Down a few times. So far so good! ;D
Adding bottled sanitizers takes all of 10 seconds and you don't have to regularly clean the cell or spend the initial $1,500 for the system. Why do people act like hot tub water care is so difficult and time consuming?
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..... I'm not adding any bottled sanitizers or chemicals other than balancing my PH with PH Down a few times. So far so good! ;D
Adding bottled sanitizers takes all of 10 seconds and you don't have to regularly clean the cell or spend the initial $1,500 for the system. Why do people act like hot tub water care is so difficult and time consuming?
Because going to the garage to get the chemicals after each and every soak, Running the clean cycle after every time I add chemicals to properly mix in the system, Shocking with Bottled chlorine every week, Replacing a Silver Ion Cartridge every 4 months at $35 bucks a wack, and having to smell the nasty chlorine and not having the smooth and silky water like I have now with the salt system.....SUCKS!!! ABSOLUTELY SUCKS! I don't ever have to worry about "Shocking my tub" I can basically forget about it for a month or better at a time and still have bath ready water right now every time. That's why....Not to mention that I'm going on 6 month old water that looks, Smells and feels as great as the water did the day I put it in....No more 3 month water changing for me....You may enjoy that maintenance schedule Sam....I don't.
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I have a question for you Dunecritter, I have a 2013 Hot Springs Sovereign, that I do not have the salt system, it runs great, but i chose not having the salt system, due to the fact it was so new and chlorine definitely works and no issues to deal with like problems with hardware and running the system. My question, can I add a salt system to my Sovereign down the road, if I like and how hard is it to install, could I do it myself ? I don't think, I would want to, due to the fact , if it breaks, probably is not covered, let me know, thanks Kurt.
Hey Kurt, You can certainly install the ACE system on your 2013 Sovereign at any time yourself...The directions are very clear and simple. Installing it yourself really is easy and if you need any help....The forum is great to help answer any questions. BTW...Install takes all if 15-20 min is all. I have installed many and you can PM me if you ever needed any help.
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Well Its been awhile since I've had a chance to hop in the tub (almost 2 weeks as I painted my home as I have been bzy with that and work) and I intentionally did nothing with it regarding to even opening the cover during this time. Well yesterday I opened the cover and tested my water with regular test strips and as expected...water was good...still clear with absolutely no smells to speak of...once tested I noticed the sanitizer levels were perfect and the softness was good but like normal.. The PH and Alk has creped up and required a touch of PH down to get it back in range. That's it, so far so good. I have yet to clean my cell (Manufacture recommends every 3 months and I'm at 5 months now) so I decided to dip the cell in a PH Down solution for a 10 Min and was surprised to see no bubbles from the cleaning process. I looked down the cell and I cannot see any deposit buildup on it yet so maybe It will be more necessary as the cell gets aged with more time/use in the water. One annoying thing as this was the first time cleaning the cell and I put too much water in the PH solution bottle so when I submerged the cell I had excess spillage...so I quickly grabbed the hose to dilute the solution. Clearly a rookie mistake that won't happen again.
//i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140228_100425_zps29e1e5bf.jpg[/img][/URL]
Get yourself a re-agent test kit bud. Learn how to use it. 10 people can look at strips and get a different reading. Scoop a little water and go do it in your kitchen by the sink
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Well Its been awhile since I've had a chance to hop in the tub (almost 2 weeks as I painted my home as I have been bzy with that and work) and I intentionally did nothing with it regarding to even opening the cover during this time. Well yesterday I opened the cover and tested my water with regular test strips and as expected...water was good...still clear with absolutely no smells to speak of...once tested I noticed the sanitizer levels were perfect and the softness was good but like normal.. The PH and Alk has creped up and required a touch of PH down to get it back in range. That's it, so far so good. I have yet to clean my cell (Manufacture recommends every 3 months and I'm at 5 months now) so I decided to dip the cell in a PH Down solution for a 10 Min and was surprised to see no bubbles from the cleaning process. I looked down the cell and I cannot see any deposit buildup on it yet so maybe It will be more necessary as the cell gets aged with more time/use in the water. One annoying thing as this was the first time cleaning the cell and I put too much water in the PH solution bottle so when I submerged the cell I had excess spillage...so I quickly grabbed the hose to dilute the solution. Clearly a rookie mistake that won't happen again.
//i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140228_100425_zps29e1e5bf.jpg[/img][/URL]
Get yourself a re-agent test kit bud. Learn how to use it. 10 people can look at strips and get a different reading. Scoop a little water and go do it in your kitchen by the sink
Got one BUD...Know how to use it just the same. I've checked it against my strips and I know where my range is on the strips for a quick reference. I have a 30,000 gallon pool and have been servicing my pools for 20 years and all my tubs for 22 years. The test strips are a great generic test to check levels quickly....Not as accurate as the other better testers but will tell you when your way out of range. Simple as that.
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We have 3 retail locations that sell the ACE system. Two locations each have one wet tub that has the ACE system installed for display and My location has Two wet tubs with the ACE system in use for display (A Gleam and a Grandee). I own one at home (Grandee) and my partner owns one on his tub at home (Vanguard). I have yet to have a single issue with any one of these 6 ACE systems that are in use. So far so good.
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Well Its been awhile since I've had a chance to hop in the tub (almost 2 weeks as I painted my home as I have been bzy with that and work) and I intentionally did nothing with it regarding to even opening the cover during this time. Well yesterday I opened the cover and tested my water with regular test strips and as expected...water was good...still clear with absolutely no smells to speak of...once tested I noticed the sanitizer levels were perfect and the softness was good but like normal.. The PH and Alk has creped up and required a touch of PH down to get it back in range. That's it, so far so good. I have yet to clean my cell (Manufacture recommends every 3 months and I'm at 5 months now) so I decided to dip the cell in a PH Down solution for a 10 Min and was surprised to see no bubbles from the cleaning process. I looked down the cell and I cannot see any deposit buildup on it yet so maybe It will be more necessary as the cell gets aged with more time/use in the water. One annoying thing as this was the first time cleaning the cell and I put too much water in the PH solution bottle so when I submerged the cell I had excess spillage...so I quickly grabbed the hose to dilute the solution. Clearly a rookie mistake that won't happen again.
//i190.photobucket.com/albums/z59/bzyguy01/20140228_100425_zps29e1e5bf.jpg[/img][/URL]
Get yourself a re-agent test kit bud. Learn how to use it. 10 people can look at strips and get a different reading. Scoop a little water and go do it in your kitchen by the sink
Got one BUD...Know how to use it just the same. I've checked it against my strips and I know where my range is on the strips for a quick reference. I have a 30,000 gallon pool and have been servicing my pools for 20 years and all my tubs for 22 years. The test strips are a great generic test to check levels quickly....Not as accurate as the other better testers but will tell you when your way out of range. Simple as that.
I use the strips for sanitizer but never for PH or Alk
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We have 3 retail locations that sell the ACE system. Two locations each have one wet tub that has the ACE system installed for display and My location has Two wet tubs with the ACE system in use for display (A Gleam and a Grandee). I own one at home (Grandee) and my partner owns one on his tub at home (Vanguard). I have yet to have a single issue with any one of these 6 ACE systems that are in use. So far so good.
Love having the ACE setup in the showroom esp. during busy weeks where I may forget to toss some chlorine into our tubs ;-)...I have it on a Flair and a Jetsetter...also have a Gleam, Vanguard, Envoy, Aria, and Rhythm all wet and ready to test
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We have 3 retail locations that sell the ACE system. Two locations each have one wet tub that has the ACE system installed for display and My location has Two wet tubs with the ACE system in use for display (A Gleam and a Grandee). I own one at home (Grandee) and my partner owns one on his tub at home (Vanguard). I have yet to have a single issue with any one of these 6 ACE systems that are in use. So far so good.
Love having the ACE setup in the showroom esp. during busy weeks where I may forget to toss some chlorine into our tubs ;-)...I have it on a Flair and a Jetsetter...also have a Gleam, Vanguard, Envoy, Aria, and Rhythm all wet and ready to test
Agreed...I get side tracked and the Jettsetter, Glow, TX, and Tempo all let me know that I forgot to sanitize them...
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We have 3 retail locations that sell the ACE system. Two locations each have one wet tub that has the ACE system installed for display and My location has Two wet tubs with the ACE system in use for display (A Gleam and a Grandee). I own one at home (Grandee) and my partner owns one on his tub at home (Vanguard). I have yet to have a single issue with any one of these 6 ACE systems that are in use. So far so good.
Love having the ACE setup in the showroom esp. during busy weeks where I may forget to toss some chlorine into our tubs ;-)...I have it on a Flair and a Jetsetter...also have a Gleam, Vanguard, Envoy, Aria, and Rhythm all wet and ready to test
You da man! That's a lot of work to keep that many wet. Hear that people? Get to the twin cities and buy a tub. Floor models are always a tiny bit less.
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We have 3 retail locations that sell the ACE system. Two locations each have one wet tub that has the ACE system installed for display and My location has Two wet tubs with the ACE system in use for display (A Gleam and a Grandee). I own one at home (Grandee) and my partner owns one on his tub at home (Vanguard). I have yet to have a single issue with any one of these 6 ACE systems that are in use. So far so good.
Love having the ACE setup in the showroom esp. during busy weeks where I may forget to toss some chlorine into our tubs ;-)...I have it on a Flair and a Jetsetter...also have a Gleam, Vanguard, Envoy, Aria, and Rhythm all wet and ready to test
You da man! That's a lot of work to keep that many wet. Hear that people? Get to the twin cities and buy a tub. Floor models are always a tiny bit less.
Was that comment necessary? Im sure your a fine tech Tman....and everyone has an opinion and that's fine....but really?
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We have 3 retail locations that sell the ACE system. Two locations each have one wet tub that has the ACE system installed for display and My location has Two wet tubs with the ACE system in use for display (A Gleam and a Grandee). I own one at home (Grandee) and my partner owns one on his tub at home (Vanguard). I have yet to have a single issue with any one of these 6 ACE systems that are in use. So far so good.
Love having the ACE setup in the showroom esp. during busy weeks where I may forget to toss some chlorine into our tubs ;-)...I have it on a Flair and a Jetsetter...also have a Gleam, Vanguard, Envoy, Aria, and Rhythm all wet and ready to test
You da man! That's a lot of work to keep that many wet. Hear that people? Get to the twin cities and buy a tub. Floor models are always a tiny bit less.
Was that comment necessary? Im sure your a fine tech Tman....and everyone has an opinion and that's fine....but really?
You should try reducing the hat size there dunecritter or better yet try decaf! I know it's hard to do with HS salesman, the hat size that is! ;)
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Ahhh...there's Jim....The other professional who's opinion is the only one that's the right one...it's OK guys...I get it...don't worry...I'll keep donating at circle K just like I always have ;) I buy one size fits all hats so I can still wear it after having a look at your posts :o
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Was that comment necessary? Im sure your a fine tech Tman....and everyone has an opinion and that's fine....but really?
So throwing compliments at other posters is not exceptable by you?? It's very admirable that a dealer can keep 6-7 tubs wet and ready for testing. Most dealers keep one or two. TC has 6-7 and that is a lot of work and expense.
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That wasn't received as a compliment...If that was a compliment....Please explain...I'm obviously missing something...I took it as a heckle towards Twincities...If I'm wrong I apolagize
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That wasn't received as a compliment...If that was a compliment....Please explain...I'm obviously missing something...I took it as a heckle towards Twincities...If I'm wrong I apolagize
I doubt Tman was heckling me, and for some reason if he was well thats ok too, if you don't have haters your not doing something right ;D have a good day all
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"Why can't we all just get along?" :)
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Its a rough crowd don't ya know! ;D Love Forums...All of them have this stuff. LOL
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Dunecritter - how about an update here?
I'm thinking of a Grandee w/ACE.
Thanks.
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Dunecritter - how about an update here?
I'm thinking of a Grandee w/ACE.
Thanks.
Doubt you will get a response. He hasn't been on this forum in about a year and a half. The poster on here with the most experience with these systems is probably twincitiesbullfrog. He was a hot spring dealer before switching to bullfrog 6 or so months ago. He was very knowledgable on ace and how it worked. Water chemistry is especially important with that system. I know they had a ton of issues when it came out 5 or so years ago. Don't here much negative about them these days
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Thanks. Dealer is offering it at no cost, so I may try it.
I've been reading through forum here, looking for comments/feedback.
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if you have any ACE questions let me know...I sold the system since they started offering it Day 1 (3rd/4th Qtr. of 2009) until approx. 6 months ago so I can pretty much answer any/all questions related to the system
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I have ACE on an Envoy for my personal spa. I'll be the first to tell you that the 2010 release of it was hell. Every dealer hated it. The launch was what jaded so many dealers. What then proceeded to happen, as the system got a lot better, a lot of dealers were unwilling and still are unwilling to give it a shot. You also have some dealers that didn't want to take the time to explain how the system works and what the customer needs to do in order to have long term success.
BullfrogSpasMN is a pro and he can help you out, but if you need any other help, feel free to reach out to me. Plenty of my customers choose ACE, not because it's going to save them money, but because of how it feels.