Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: gizmodo on August 28, 2017, 08:12:18 am

Title: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on August 28, 2017, 08:12:18 am
We've had our Hot Springs Envoy for less than three years and our second  ACE cell just failed.  The water has always been kept at 25-50 ppm for hardness, and we've never used the boost feature.  I realize these things have a limited life but this is pretty ridiculous, this one lasted less than a year.  Anyway, has anyone tried one of these off brand cells? http://thehottubwizard.com/ace-saltwater-system-replacement-cell/ or http://www.saltwaterhottubconversion.com/saltwater-products/chlorine-generator-parts/replacement-cells/hot-springs-chlorine-replacement-cell.html
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: bud16415 on August 28, 2017, 12:01:59 pm
If I switch my tub to salt and there is a very good chance I will soon, I’m going with the Saltron-mini. It is a total after market system and I have seen one in operation and liked it. The cell on those can be cleaned in vinegar. The guy I know says he has excellent cell life in doing that and when you do need to replace it, it is about 100 bucks.

Not sure about the ones you linked.

I do have a question besides the trouble and expense, how do you like the salt water and that method?   
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on August 28, 2017, 02:20:44 pm
I really like the ACE system.  It does what it says to but replacing the cells as often as we've had to I don't see it being a viable solution long term.  The first one was replaced under warranty but I don't anticipate this one will be.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: BullFrogSpasMN on August 28, 2017, 02:28:55 pm
We've had our Hot Springs Envoy for less than three years and our second  ACE cell just failed.  The water has always been kept at 25-50 ppm for hardness, and we've never used the boost feature.  I realize these things have a limited life but this is pretty ridiculous, this one lasted less than a year.  Anyway, has anyone tried one of these off brand cells? http://thehottubwizard.com/ace-saltwater-system-replacement-cell/ or http://www.saltwaterhottubconversion.com/saltwater-products/chlorine-generator-parts/replacement-cells/hot-springs-chlorine-replacement-cell.html

Common, as I've stated before the cell is built to only last approx. 16-18 months AT MOST...so 2 cells over 3 years is about what to expect roughly, for info on aftermarket options I would wait for d00nut or hottubguy I believe to chime in, they are both Hot Spring dealers and should have info. on those aftermarket options, right when I left Hot Springs those things were just coming onto market so I don't have any personal experience with them.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: bud16415 on August 28, 2017, 02:47:27 pm
Changing a part that expensive every year and a half is ridicules IMO at that price. That is just a case of planned obsolescence and gouging the customer. The proof is in seeing this cheap little aftermarket gadget lasting 4 years now and only soaking it in a glass of vinegar once a month when you are in the tub. Simple and it works longer and is so much less expensive.

Really the only reason I haven’t switched is Dichlor and Clorox is so cheap and simple. The reason I will change is with salt I feel the water feels so much better and smoother.   8)
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: d00nut on August 29, 2017, 02:04:36 pm
Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems :)
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: Spatech_tuo on August 29, 2017, 06:42:22 pm
Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems :)

Perfect example why "who you buy from" matters as much as "what you buy". Its super important to buy from a dealer that is both willing and able to be there for you after the sale.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on August 31, 2017, 01:52:54 pm
Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems :)
The highest we set the output to is 4, oftentimes less than that and I've never used the boost function and this cell still failed in less than a year.  The hardness is well within range too.  I change the water every 8 months or so.

When we bought the tub the impression was given that we should get either the ACE system or ozone, but not both.

I bought this tub from Eric (BullFrogSpasMN, previously TwinCitiesHotSpring) so I don't think the who is really a problem here.

Bottom line is it sounds like I might have to be the guinea pig for one of these aftermarket parts unless the local dealer or corporate is willing to take care of this.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: BullFrogSpasMN on August 31, 2017, 05:25:27 pm
Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems :)
The highest we set the output to is 4, oftentimes less than that and I've never used the boost function and this cell still failed in less than a year.  The hardness is well within range too.  I change the water every 8 months or so.

When we bought the tub the impression was given that we should get either the ACE system or ozone, but not both.

I bought this tub from Eric (BullFrogSpasMN, previously TwinCitiesHotSpring) so I don't think the who is really a problem here.

Bottom line is it sounds like I might have to be the guinea pig for one of these aftermarket parts unless the local dealer or corporate is willing to take care of this.

Here's the thing with the ACE, (in my opinion only, right or wrong it's simply how I FEEL) is that overall it was/has been a little bit of a letdown to multiple parties involved (dealers who sell them, and customers who buy them included) When this thing came out it was being pitched as something that will revolutionize the hot tub industry, it was on the front page of their website, all over the brochures, signs were placed all over the store, signs placed on every spa, etc. (and why wouldn't it, add a little salt, set a # and voila, easy peasy) well the first couple years was an absolute nightmare (before you bought your spa Gizmodo) well then after multiple revisions it was supposed to have been perfected for more life expectancy and it simply doesn't last in my opinion long enough to warrant the price, pure opinion of course, I realize there are a lot of people out there where $1,000 is "pocket change".  So the manufacturer pushes the business owners, who push the sales guys to sell the thing, and by sell I don't mean "oversell" it but simply try our best to sell it based on factory recommended sales techniques (d00nut and myself have attended factory training together) well unfortunately it still doesn't seem to last and there are still upset customers.  I will say Watkins (makers of Hot Spring) are a very reputable, long standing company in this industry so one thing you could try to do is call their 800 Number and work your way up the supervisor chain and in a nice way simply let them know of your displeasure and see if they'll do anything for you. Good Luck!
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: hottubdan on September 02, 2017, 09:12:38 pm
Because Watkins replaced the 1st one in reality you have not been out of pocket for replacement yet.  Interesting.  Part of the ACE experience is it is not just producing chlorine; it is making other cleaners and oxidizers.  The aftermarket cells will simply produce chlorine.  That will clean the water, but it might not be as soft.

The reason Watkins cannot recommend ozone with ACE is they have to tell you you need a chlorine residual per EPA. Reality is if the water is clean, clear and smells good it should be OK.  I have had ACE with ozone on my Jetsetter for a long time, setting of 2 or 3.

Having said that, you should get more than a year out of a cell. One quick question.  How do you know the cell failed?
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: d00nut on September 02, 2017, 11:21:28 pm
Because Watkins replaced the 1st one in reality you have not been out of pocket for replacement yet.  Interesting.  Part of the ACE experience is it is not just producing chlorine; it is making other cleaners and oxidizers.  The aftermarket cells will simply produce chlorine.  That will clean the water, but it might not be as soft.

The reason Watkins cannot recommend ozone with ACE is they have to tell you you need a chlorine residual per EPA. Reality is if the water is clean, clear and smells good it should be OK.  I have had ACE with ozone on my Jetsetter for a long time, setting of 2 or 3.

Having said that, you should get more than a year out of a cell. One quick question.  How do you know the cell failed?

What he said.  I sell it with both.  Watkins cannot market ACE as an all in one system with Ozone because of what Dan said.  I could give a crap ;)

I'd work with the dealer to see if they can help you out.  I'd then talk to Watkins (as a dealer) to see if they can help me out.  Like I said, I say the cell, if you are doing everything right, should easily last 3 years at a minimum.  If it doesn't, I will prorate the cell, as I feel that is only right.

I cannot speak for everyone though. 
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on October 10, 2017, 09:30:35 pm
Because Watkins replaced the 1st one in reality you have not been out of pocket for replacement yet.  Interesting.  Part of the ACE experience is it is not just producing chlorine; it is making other cleaners and oxidizers.  The aftermarket cells will simply produce chlorine.  That will clean the water, but it might not be as soft.

The reason Watkins cannot recommend ozone with ACE is they have to tell you you need a chlorine residual per EPA. Reality is if the water is clean, clear and smells good it should be OK.  I have had ACE with ozone on my Jetsetter for a long time, setting of 2 or 3.

Having said that, you should get more than a year out of a cell. One quick question.  How do you know the cell failed?
Wow, I dropped the ball on this.  I know the cell has failed because the green light is flashing and no matter what I do it says the cell is offline.  I have cleaned it, I have added salt, I have changed the water and nothing causes the cell to come back online.  There are also little black flakes in the water, which is what I saw the first time the cell failed.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: The Wizard of Spas on October 11, 2017, 10:22:34 am
I haven't been a big fan of "salt" systems for hot tubs b/c everyone expounds upon the ease of a "salt" system (and usually its b/c they know/heard about salt with in ground pools) and they want it on their spas.  But- There is such a cost to it from the onset and a life expectancy of the cells are only a few years, certainly less than 5.  The replacement cells are very expensive too.  This is why I have such a hard time recommending these units to my customers.  Nature2 or @ease and other big name/systems may take like 10 more seconds to deal with but at least you don't have an apparatus failing after the big add-on from the onset. 

I wonder if many like this/push it as they are commission-based salespersons?  But I also seem to be the minority on this thread as many of you seem to like salt systems.  So I am just interested as to *why*?  In the end- It is certainly all about what you prefer and as long as the water is balanced and you're not hurting your tub, it doesn't matter what you use.  I just never understood the appeal and that is why I am asking, respectfully. 

Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: Spatech_tuo on October 11, 2017, 11:13:29 am
I haven't been a big fan of "salt" systems for hot tubs b/c everyone expounds upon the ease of a "salt" system (and usually its b/c they know/heard about salt with in ground pools) and they want it on their spas.  But- There is such a cost to it from the onset and a life expectancy of the cells are only a few years, certainly less than 5.  The replacement cells are very expensive too.  This is why I have such a hard time recommending these units to my customers.  Nature2 or @ease and other big name/systems may take like 10 more seconds to deal with but at least you don't have an apparatus failing after the big add-on from the onset. 

I wonder if many like this/push it as they are commission-based salespersons?  But I also seem to be the minority on this thread as many of you seem to like salt systems.  So I am just interested as to *why*?  In the end- It is certainly all about what you prefer and as long as the water is balanced and you're not hurting your tub, it doesn't matter what you use.  I just never understood the appeal and that is why I am asking, respectfully.

Why do people buy hot tubs in the first place? How many literally "need" a hot tub? They buy a hot tub because they want one, hopefully they can truly afford it, they deserve it after a long day at work... No one "needs" a salt system either but they should just know that the trade off for the system is additional cost and if knowing that they want it for convenience, soft water ... then its all good.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: The Wizard of Spas on October 11, 2017, 12:38:08 pm
I haven't been a big fan of "salt" systems for hot tubs b/c everyone expounds upon the ease of a "salt" system (and usually its b/c they know/heard about salt with in ground pools) and they want it on their spas.  But- There is such a cost to it from the onset and a life expectancy of the cells are only a few years, certainly less than 5.  The replacement cells are very expensive too.  This is why I have such a hard time recommending these units to my customers.  Nature2 or @ease and other big name/systems may take like 10 more seconds to deal with but at least you don't have an apparatus failing after the big add-on from the onset. 

I wonder if many like this/push it as they are commission-based salespersons?  But I also seem to be the minority on this thread as many of you seem to like salt systems.  So I am just interested as to *why*?  In the end- It is certainly all about what you prefer and as long as the water is balanced and you're not hurting your tub, it doesn't matter what you use.  I just never understood the appeal and that is why I am asking, respectfully.

Why do people buy hot tubs in the first place? How many literally "need" a hot tub? They buy a hot tub because they want one, hopefully they can truly afford it, they deserve it after a long day at work... No one "needs" a salt system either but they should just know that the trade off for the system is additional cost and if knowing that they want it for convenience, soft water ... then its all good.

Fair enough.  Certainly not knocking it at all.  Just hear about a lot of problems.  But again- Just asking as I was in the minority and am trying to get a better feel as to the "why."  Thanks!
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on October 11, 2017, 06:35:06 pm
I will say that when the system is working it is awesome.  I would check the chemicals every few days and rarely had to add anything and not smelling chlorine when in the tub or after was really nice.  I just wish the system was more reliable.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: d00nut on October 11, 2017, 09:27:39 pm
I will say that when the system is working it is awesome.  I would check the chemicals every few days and rarely had to add anything and not smelling chlorine when in the tub or after was really nice.  I just wish the system was more reliable.

Or less expensive.  If you replace the cell once a year and it's inexpensive, that would be okay too ;)

I would go back to the dealer and ask if they could prorate it.  Again, that's what I do.  Then I ask for some kind of assistance from the manufacturer.  Everyone is happy then.

If the cell is $900, and it is suppose to last 3 years, but last a year and a half.  I believe $450 is appropriate.  Sounds fair?  Let's make a deal!  Not with me... the dealer you bought it from
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: danthespaman316 on October 12, 2017, 01:11:41 am
Had a customer call up a while back looking for a replacement for her ACE cell that didn't cost $900. As we're not a HS dealer, I did some research and came upon the Deuce brand replacement online for $300. Got her the info to order and asked that she keep me posted on it's effectiveness. Install was apparently a direct swap and after 2 months she says she's not noticed any difference in effectiveness vs the ACE. I can't vouch for it's longevity just yet, but for less than half the price of OEM it might be worth a shot for anyone needing a cell replacement.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on October 13, 2017, 08:48:49 am
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: worldburger on October 29, 2017, 11:47:30 pm
Just FYI, they way we sell and use ACE... we use it with Ozone and with the Silver Ion.  People don't change the water for a year.  (We just never look for a Chlorine residual, and we train our customers to not look for one either, similar to the nature 2 system)

If you use ozone, silver, and ACE, you keep the output level around 3-4 all the time.  People leaving their output higher than that will result in cell life being less than stellar.

For instance, I've had the same cell for over 2 years, on a Vanguard (400 gallons,) use the spa almost everyday, output is 3 (with a family of four,) and water looks and smells great all the time.

The last part of that puzzle is the hardness.  Some folks just have ridiculous hardness which will also drastically shorten the life.  Keeping the hardness down in that 25-50ppm range is key.  If you can't do that, I don't highly recommend ACE.

What we do on top of all this, if your cell last less than 3 years, we as a dealer prorate the cell.  I've only had to do that once since we started this way of selling it, but it has worked for us, and our customers love it.

Can't really comment on the aftermarket stuff.  I have no experience with it at this point other than completely different salt systems :)

Can you point me to some examples of ozone and silver products you recommend (or better yet, sell yourself) for adding to the ACE system?

Thanks for your post. I found it remarkably informative and SUPER helpful!
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: gizmodo on November 10, 2017, 08:25:57 pm
An updated on this.  I was ready to make a purchase but emailing back and forth with the gentleman from saltwaterhottubconversion.com left a sour taste in my mouth.  I called the local dealer and talked to the GM for a while.  He didn't really have any ideas and didn't offer any type of discount, which was fine.  However, he did give me the customer support number and so I called that.  They were really nice and spent about 30 minutes on the phone.  In the end they shipped a new cell to my local dealer and they in turn shipped it to me to install.  They only requirement was they wanted the old one back, and they even included a pre-paid shipping label.  All in all I am happy with the treatment I received from Watkins.

One interesting thing is when the tech came out to replace the first cell he said Watkins had changed the salt requirements down to 1100 ppm.  Both the dealer and the customer support person thought that may have been the reason for the second cell dying.  Customer support said it is in fact the other way and now they want 1750 ppm and that the lower salt level may have killed the second cell because it was working harder than needed.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: bud16415 on November 11, 2017, 11:52:08 am
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.

I have heard this before and here is what HotSprings says in their FAQ.

https://www.hotspring.com/acefaq

They talk about Active Oxygen also being produced as the “other” thing besides chlorine being produced. Somehow only the diamond electrodes can do this. They claim no other salt conversion system has the power to accomplish this.

I’m not a chemist and I don’t know if this is true or not or if it is even feasible to remove the chlorine from salt water and not make oxygen in the process or if running a ozone producing cell does the same thing or how much oxygen is being generated with the ACE. Would putting a pinch of non-chlorine shock in each day be the equivalent? 

Searching around the internet seems to not yield much information as to the real measurable differences between ACE and the other non-diamond processes.

If anyone has more information or links to information on how much of a difference the “Active Oxygen” makes to the sanitizing process over all the other salt to chlorine systems I would love reading more.     
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: BullFrogSpasMN on November 11, 2017, 12:09:13 pm
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.

I have heard this before and here is what HotSprings says in their FAQ.

https://www.hotspring.com/acefaq

They talk about Active Oxygen also being produced as the “other” thing besides chlorine being produced. Somehow only the diamond electrodes can do this. They claim no other salt conversion system has the power to accomplish this.

I’m not a chemist and I don’t know if this is true or not or if it is even feasible to remove the chlorine from salt water and not make oxygen in the process or if running a ozone producing cell does the same thing or how much oxygen is being generated with the ACE. Would putting a pinch of non-chlorine shock in each day be the equivalent? 

Searching around the internet seems to not yield much information as to the real measurable differences between ACE and the other non-diamond processes.

If anyone has more information or links to information on how much of a difference the “Active Oxygen” makes to the sanitizing process over all the other salt to chlorine systems I would love reading more.     

It operates the same way all other salt systems do, the diamond thing is just fancy marketing, I'm no chemist either and it MAY be creating the things it says but I can tell you those "things" make no performance difference.  The system I sell and service has a 3 year warranty and the replacement cell is half the cost so in my opinion maybe they should drop the special "diamond cell" and replace it with something that lasts longer and/or costs less to replace. Just my .02
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: bud16415 on November 11, 2017, 07:08:30 pm
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.

I have heard this before and here is what HotSprings says in their FAQ.

https://www.hotspring.com/acefaq

They talk about Active Oxygen also being produced as the “other” thing besides chlorine being produced. Somehow only the diamond electrodes can do this. They claim no other salt conversion system has the power to accomplish this.

I’m not a chemist and I don’t know if this is true or not or if it is even feasible to remove the chlorine from salt water and not make oxygen in the process or if running a ozone producing cell does the same thing or how much oxygen is being generated with the ACE. Would putting a pinch of non-chlorine shock in each day be the equivalent? 

Searching around the internet seems to not yield much information as to the real measurable differences between ACE and the other non-diamond processes.

If anyone has more information or links to information on how much of a difference the “Active Oxygen” makes to the sanitizing process over all the other salt to chlorine systems I would love reading more.     

It operates the same way all other salt systems do, the diamond thing is just fancy marketing, I'm no chemist either and it MAY be creating the things it says but I can tell you those "things" make no performance difference.  The system I sell and service has a 3 year warranty and the replacement cell is half the cost so in my opinion maybe they should drop the special "diamond cell" and replace it with something that lasts longer and/or costs less to replace. Just my .02

I feel pretty much the same. My only experience is I have a friend with a Saltron-mini system that he installed in 15 minutes. The cost of the whole unit including the cell is about $220 and a replacement cell is under $100. He has been using and cleaning his original cell in vinegar for 4 years now he said he soaks it in vinegar about 4 times a year.

He has a 400 gallon tub and it keeps up great and his water is silky smooth. He is very particular about his water and keeping stuff out and his runs only 4 hours a day for 2 people.

My point is if an after market company can make something simple and cheap why cant tub makers build something simple to change and cheap built into the tub. I can understand some people wouldn’t want to mess around dropping a cell in and out of the tub to use it but it seems it wouldn’t be too hard to have it mounted in the filter well or something and you just swap it out or unplug it to clean the buildup calcium off.

After the first of the year I’m switching to salt and going with a drop in aftermarket unit. If it doesn’t work I will only be out $220 and 8 pounds of salt.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: Hottubguy on November 11, 2017, 07:16:35 pm
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.

I have heard this before and here is what HotSprings says in their FAQ.

https://www.hotspring.com/acefaq

They talk about Active Oxygen also being produced as the “other” thing besides chlorine being produced. Somehow only the diamond electrodes can do this. They claim no other salt conversion system has the power to accomplish this.

I’m not a chemist and I don’t know if this is true or not or if it is even feasible to remove the chlorine from salt water and not make oxygen in the process or if running a ozone producing cell does the same thing or how much oxygen is being generated with the ACE. Would putting a pinch of non-chlorine shock in each day be the equivalent? 

Searching around the internet seems to not yield much information as to the real measurable differences between ACE and the other non-diamond processes.

If anyone has more information or links to information on how much of a difference the “Active Oxygen” makes to the sanitizing process over all the other salt to chlorine systems I would love reading more.     

It operates the same way all other salt systems do, the diamond thing is just fancy marketing, I'm no chemist either and it MAY be creating the things it says but I can tell you those "things" make no performance difference.  The system I sell and service has a 3 year warranty and the replacement cell is half the cost so in my opinion maybe they should drop the special "diamond cell" and replace it with something that lasts longer and/or costs less to replace. Just my .02

I feel pretty much the same. My only experience is I have a friend with a Saltron-mini system that he installed in 15 minutes. The cost of the whole unit including the cell is about $220 and a replacement cell is under $100. He has been using and cleaning his original cell in vinegar for 4 years now he said he soaks it in vinegar about 4 times a year.

He has a 400 gallon tub and it keeps up great and his water is silky smooth. He is very particular about his water and keeping stuff out and his runs only 4 hours a day for 2 people.

My point is if an after market company can make something simple and cheap why cant tub makers build something simple to change and cheap built into the tub. I can understand some people wouldn’t want to mess around dropping a cell in and out of the tub to use it but it seems it wouldn’t be too hard to have it mounted in the filter well or something and you just swap it out or unplug it to clean the buildup calcium off.

After the first of the year I’m switching to salt and going with a drop in aftermarket unit. If it doesn’t work I will only be out $220 and 8 pounds of salt.

Bud you may want to check with your dealer and make sure it won’t void your warranty
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: bud16415 on November 11, 2017, 07:47:53 pm
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.

I have heard this before and here is what HotSprings says in their FAQ.

https://www.hotspring.com/acefaq

They talk about Active Oxygen also being produced as the “other” thing besides chlorine being produced. Somehow only the diamond electrodes can do this. They claim no other salt conversion system has the power to accomplish this.

I’m not a chemist and I don’t know if this is true or not or if it is even feasible to remove the chlorine from salt water and not make oxygen in the process or if running a ozone producing cell does the same thing or how much oxygen is being generated with the ACE. Would putting a pinch of non-chlorine shock in each day be the equivalent? 

Searching around the internet seems to not yield much information as to the real measurable differences between ACE and the other non-diamond processes.

If anyone has more information or links to information on how much of a difference the “Active Oxygen” makes to the sanitizing process over all the other salt to chlorine systems I would love reading more.     

It operates the same way all other salt systems do, the diamond thing is just fancy marketing, I'm no chemist either and it MAY be creating the things it says but I can tell you those "things" make no performance difference.  The system I sell and service has a 3 year warranty and the replacement cell is half the cost so in my opinion maybe they should drop the special "diamond cell" and replace it with something that lasts longer and/or costs less to replace. Just my .02

I feel pretty much the same. My only experience is I have a friend with a Saltron-mini system that he installed in 15 minutes. The cost of the whole unit including the cell is about $220 and a replacement cell is under $100. He has been using and cleaning his original cell in vinegar for 4 years now he said he soaks it in vinegar about 4 times a year.

He has a 400 gallon tub and it keeps up great and his water is silky smooth. He is very particular about his water and keeping stuff out and his runs only 4 hours a day for 2 people.

My point is if an after market company can make something simple and cheap why cant tub makers build something simple to change and cheap built into the tub. I can understand some people wouldn’t want to mess around dropping a cell in and out of the tub to use it but it seems it wouldn’t be too hard to have it mounted in the filter well or something and you just swap it out or unplug it to clean the buildup calcium off.

After the first of the year I’m switching to salt and going with a drop in aftermarket unit. If it doesn’t work I will only be out $220 and 8 pounds of salt.

Bud you may want to check with your dealer and make sure it won’t void your warranty

Thanks for the tip. I will do that.

I’m quite convinced that slight salt concentration of salt in the water wont cause harm to the tub. I wont be changing anything with the tub itself expect adding salt to the water.

I suppose if you remove the unit from the tub no one would ever be the wiser you were running salt, but I wouldn’t do that. I would say the warranty claim would have to be caused by the salt water to void the warranty. Say my control panel or lights failed I don’t see how that could be connected to salt in the water.

But I will ask. In fact of the dealers maybe someone knows the answer. My tub happens to be a Caldera if anyone knows. Can I add salt to my water?
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: Hottubguy on November 11, 2017, 08:45:04 pm
That is one of the brands I originally posted about.  I emailed the company and asked about the cell and according to them it functions in exactly the same was as the ACE cell in that it does more than just create chlorine.  I might have to give one a try.

I have heard this before and here is what HotSprings says in their FAQ.

https://www.hotspring.com/acefaq

They talk about Active Oxygen also being produced as the “other” thing besides chlorine being produced. Somehow only the diamond electrodes can do this. They claim no other salt conversion system has the power to accomplish this.

I’m not a chemist and I don’t know if this is true or not or if it is even feasible to remove the chlorine from salt water and not make oxygen in the process or if running a ozone producing cell does the same thing or how much oxygen is being generated with the ACE. Would putting a pinch of non-chlorine shock in each day be the equivalent? 

Searching around the internet seems to not yield much information as to the real measurable differences between ACE and the other non-diamond processes.

If anyone has more information or links to information on how much of a difference the “Active Oxygen” makes to the sanitizing process over all the other salt to chlorine systems I would love reading more.     

It operates the same way all other salt systems do, the diamond thing is just fancy marketing, I'm no chemist either and it MAY be creating the things it says but I can tell you those "things" make no performance difference.  The system I sell and service has a 3 year warranty and the replacement cell is half the cost so in my opinion maybe they should drop the special "diamond cell" and replace it with something that lasts longer and/or costs less to replace. Just my .02

I feel pretty much the same. My only experience is I have a friend with a Saltron-mini system that he installed in 15 minutes. The cost of the whole unit including the cell is about $220 and a replacement cell is under $100. He has been using and cleaning his original cell in vinegar for 4 years now he said he soaks it in vinegar about 4 times a year.

He has a 400 gallon tub and it keeps up great and his water is silky smooth. He is very particular about his water and keeping stuff out and his runs only 4 hours a day for 2 people.

My point is if an after market company can make something simple and cheap why cant tub makers build something simple to change and cheap built into the tub. I can understand some people wouldn’t want to mess around dropping a cell in and out of the tub to use it but it seems it wouldn’t be too hard to have it mounted in the filter well or something and you just swap it out or unplug it to clean the buildup calcium off.

After the first of the year I’m switching to salt and going with a drop in aftermarket unit. If it doesn’t work I will only be out $220 and 8 pounds of salt.

Bud you may want to check with your dealer and make sure it won’t void your warranty

Thanks for the tip. I will do that.

I’m quite convinced that slight salt concentration of salt in the water wont cause harm to the tub. I wont be changing anything with the tub itself expect adding salt to the water.

I suppose if you remove the unit from the tub no one would ever be the wiser you were running salt, but I wouldn’t do that. I would say the warranty claim would have to be caused by the salt water to void the warranty. Say my control panel or lights failed I don’t see how that could be connected to salt in the water.

But I will ask. In fact of the dealers maybe someone knows the answer. My tub happens to be a Caldera if anyone knows. Can I add salt to my water?

I’m a Caldera dealer and I’m not sure. I’ve never asked because I’ve never had a customer try it. I think in the warranty it says something up alterations. Not sure if converting to salt would be considered a alteration.
Title: Re: Hot Springs ACE Cell Alternative
Post by: bud16415 on November 12, 2017, 08:27:42 am
I’m a Caldera dealer and I’m not sure. I’ve never asked because I’ve never had a customer try it. I think in the warranty it says something up alterations. Not sure if converting to salt would be considered a alteration.


Thanks for the reply. That was pretty much the feeling I got from my dealer the couple times I mentioned salt. Mostly what they told me was “You don’t want to do that.” One lady sales person told me oh no don’t do that look at what salt does to your car. I pointed out cars are made from steel and the salt concentration is at least 100 times stronger.

I understand opening up the tub and cutting pipes and adding in new devices would likely void a warranty but I don’t see where adding some salt is different than adding some bleach or a strong concentrated oxidizer.

If you get a chance to ask Watkins directly it would be interesting to hear what they say. 

To the OP sorry not trying to highjack your thread trying to stay somewhat on topic.